MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/72

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Add an abbreviation template to type out full game titles

Add template 8-0
This proposal is about creating a template that it makes it easier to type out full game titles. Although The Legend of Zelda games generally have longer titles (and Zelda Wiki even has templates for some of their shorter titled games, like Hyrule Warriors, here), there have still been cases in which some game titles are uncomfortably long, such as Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! or Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and while it may seem like not a big deal to some, it would be a small quality-of-life improvement if we could have a template where we input the abbreviation, and the output becomes the game title.

For example, {{a|M&LSS}} would result in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga (complete with italics formatting). Meanwhile, {{a|M&LSS|l}} to link to the game, outputting Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, although depending on who creates the template, it could be vice versa, like it links by default and {{a|M&LSS|n}} would prevent a link.

Since Super Mario has several releases, it may get difficult maintaining with all the abbreviations, and there have been cases where two games have shared the same abbreviation. (e.g. SMS for both Mario Sunshine and Mario Strikers). In that case, either {{a|SMS|2002}} (with the year of release) or a custom abbreviation (e.g. {{a|SMShine}}) would be needed (personally I'd prefer the latter).

Consider we already have similar templates for Princess Peach and Princess Daisy (i.e. {{Peach}} and {{Daisy}}), and both of their full titles (with "Princess" included) is a lot shorter than the two game titles in the first paragraph.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on December 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) We don't see the harm in this, even if it would admittedly be fairly niche. The only real complaint we have is the lack of an additional parameter for changing the displayed text, so if we need to say something like "in the remake", we have to write that out the old-fashioned way.
3. EvieMaybe (talk) might make some link-heavy pages lighter!
4. Salmancer (talk) Words cannot express the relief that my fingers would feel if they never have to type out "Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey" again.
5. Tails777 (talk) Mario already took my example, but it still stands; the amount of times I've had to type out that title (or even the abbreviation for it) was incredibly annoying. Per all.
6. Scrooge200 (talk) Yes, these titles can be a pain to write out in full. Per all.
7. Technetium (talk) Per all.
8. Sparks (talk) Per all.

Comments

@Camwoodstock Such a parameter can always be added to the template. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:18, December 18, 2024 (EST)

Salmancer: Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games might be the other worst game title I've had to type out. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:59, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Damn it, that was gonna be my example! Tails777 Talk to me!15:34, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games

Do not put templates underneath names of planets and areas 14-1
The aims of this proposal is to repeal this one that passed earlier this year. I will reiterate my position here:

The planetary bodies in galaxies do not just "lack" publicly accessible names - they are straight up not supposed to have names. The Shogakukan guidebook for Mario Galaxy does not give planets name. The game does not give planets name. The instruction booklet does not give planets name. The only "source" that applies discrete names for planets are from the developers and we have no reason to think these were intended to be the planets. These galaxy articles are generally a bit outdated, and I think the mistake in the first place was suggesting that some of the planets have real names "except where otherwise noted." They largely do not. I think it would would healthier to recognize that they are just different sections of a greater whole, much like areas in courses for the earlier 3D games, and apply titles accordingly.

To elaborate on my perspective, I think using dev data to provide names for these planets is completely fine, and I understand the desire to do so. Citing the Prima Games guidebooks for potential names for these areas is fine. That is not what this proposal is about. Rather, integrating the templates themselves - be it for conjectural or dev data-derived names - underneath the individual headers for each planet, in my view, looks very poor, as you can see here for Yoshi Star Galaxy and Honeyhive Galaxy. They are detractingly eye-catching and break these articles without substantive benefit. I think having a nonintrusive note at the top or bottom of these articles - as was the case before the proposal I link to above passed - is perfectly sufficient and healthier for these articles.

I provide two options:

1. Support: Do not put conjectural and dev-data name templates beneath the names of individual planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games: This is a full repeal of the proposal I link to above.
2. Oppose: Change nothing

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on December 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: Do not put templates underneath the name's of planets and areas

1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
2. 1468z (talk) Per proposal.
3. Waluigi Time (talk) The previous solution looked a lot nicer. I also agree with Nintendo101 that we should rethink how we approach planet names in general. They don't necessarily "need" names any more than specific portions of levels in other games do.
4. Jdtendo (talk) I still don't agree with the "planets are not supposed to have names" argument, but I do agree that having templates beneath every section heading is excessive.
5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Waluigi time. The overall assumption that the planets have names unless otherwise stated feels like the consequence of a decision made very, very early on into the wiki, that's just kind of gone unquestioned or unnoticed until very recently. This won't stop that particular case of WikiJank™ completely, but it's a step in the right direction.
6. Sparks (talk) Per all.
7. EvieMaybe (talk) if all the names are unofficial, then we only need to say it once. if there's an official name, we can just say "all names are unofficial unless specified" and specify in the one planet that has a name (is there any planets with names even???). having the template on each individual section is both ugly and inefficient
8. Mario (talk) Yeah, the setup before this was satisfactory. Per Evie, but I also agree with Waluigi Time that we probably don't need to require naming these parts of the level either.
9. Ray Trace (talk) I always thought assigning these objects meant to be part of the environment conjectural templates has always struck me as odd and I don't know why only Super Mario Galaxy gets singled out out of all games. We don't name the rooms the Mario Party minigames take place in.
10. Tails777 (talk) I was sincerely confused when I saw the templates put back on the various galaxy articles and questioned "Why? It was better beforehand." Per all.
11. Hooded Pitohui (talk) In the longer-term, WT and Nintendo101 bring up points which ought to be considered. In the shorter term, this would be a beneficial first step to de-cluttering these sections for better readability.
12. Ninja Squid (talk) Per all.
13. Technetium (talk) Per Nintendo101, Waluigi Time, and Porple's comment below.
14. MCD (talk) Per N101, WT and Porple below. I also agree our attitude on what counts as "conjectural" when it comes to naming planets needs a rethink, i.e. it's not conjecture to call the planet the player starts on the "starting planet" because that's just a factual description. (Also, why does Starting Planet just redirect to a random galaxy? lol)

Oppose: Keep the templates

1. Ahemtoday (talk) I'm opposing this proposal as currently slated to be implemented — as in, just removing Template:Conjecture and Template:Dev data from these sections and leaving it at that. These need to be marked, and I don't feel that an "unless otherwise noted" disclaimer is an elegant way to do that. However. There is a way of accomplishing this that I would be amenable to: replacing those templates with Template:Conjectural or a new dev data equivalent to it. This is the same way our glitch pages do it, for exactly the same reason you want to get rid of these templates on the galaxy pages. I think it makes perfect sense to use this convention here as well to solve this problem.

Comments on the planet template proposal

I agree that we don't need the repeated templates, and the whole naming situation of the planets is a bit odd. Rather than giving the planets capitalized "names" (e.g. "Starting Planet") and noting them as conjectural, they should just be described in sentence case, at which point it should be somewhat obvious that it's a description and not a "name". For example, section heading "Starting planet" and text "The starting planet has..." You could do a single {{conjecture|subsections=yes}} under the "Planets" heading if you really wanted to, but I think if we removed all the inappropriate capitalization then even that wouldn't be necessary. --Steve (talk) 20:11, December 19, 2024 (EST)

Broaden the scope of the {{rewrite}} template and its variations

Do not broaden scope 1-7
With the previous proposal having passed with being more specific as the most voted, I've come up with a proposal about the possibility to make the {{rewrite}}, {{rewrite-expand}}, and {{rewrite-remove}} templates more specific. As you can see, these templates are missing some smaller text. As such, I am just wondering if there is a possibility to have the smaller text added to the {{rewrite}}, {{rewrite-expand}}, and {{rewrite-remove}} templates.

First of all, the {{rewrite}} template currently reads as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten.

---

However, once the proposal passes, the {{rewrite}} template will read as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}}.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article.

---

And another thing—the {{rewrite-expand}} template currently reads as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information.

---

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-expand}} will read as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information.{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by filling in the missing details.

---

Lastly, the {{rewrite-remove}} currently reads as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have <u>{{{content|{{{1|content<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{2|???<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s): ???

---

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-remove}} will read as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have {{#if:{{{content|{{{1|}}}}}}|<u>{{{content|{{{1}}}}}}</u>|content}} '''removed'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s):{{{reason|{{{2}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by removing the unnecessary details.

---

That will be a perfect idea to make the {{rewrite}} template and its variations as more specific as the {{media missing}} and {{unreferenced}} templates. That way, we'll be able to add smaller text to the remaining notice templates in the future.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: December 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to December 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

1. Altendo (talk) As far as I can tell, the proposal that was linked added parameters that allowed what was supposed to be referenced to be referenced. This one simply adds a subtitle to the bottom of each template. "Be more specific" does not mean saying general information and helpful links, but rather exactly what needs to be done; in terms of that, the existing templates not only all already have parameters, but filling them out is enforced. As Nightwicked Bowser said, "Be more specific - Similar to this proposal, what exactly needs references must be specified in the template when putting it in the article. A parameter for this will still need to be added." This only adds a subtitle and does not make this "more specific". As for the changes, this is actually harmful in some way, as the (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}}) tag will be added to the subtitle, rather than the main body, which could make it more confusing in my opinion. Feel free to update this and add in what "more specific" actually means, or just change this to "add subtitles" and change the location of (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}}) to the main body, but until then, my vote is staying here.
2. Mario (talk) Best to keep things simple with these improvement templates.
3. Technetium (talk) Per Mario.
4. Sparks (talk) Per all.
5. Power Flotzo (talk) Yeah, this just feels like change for the sake of change. Per everyone.
6. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Mario. We should try and keep these maintenance templates as simple as possible.
7. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per all.

Comments

Here's how I would fix some things:

First of all, the {{rewrite}} template currently reads as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten.

---

However, once the proposal passes, the {{rewrite}} template will read as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}}.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten for the following reasons:
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article.

---

And another thing—the {{rewrite-expand}} template currently reads as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information.

---

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-expand}} will read as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information for the following reasons:
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by filling in the missing details.

---

Lastly, the {{rewrite-remove}} currently reads as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have <u>{{{content|{{{1|content<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{2|???<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s): ???

---

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-remove}} will read as follows:

---

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have {{#if:{{{content|{{{1|}}}}}}|<u>{{{content|{{{1}}}}}}</u>|content}} '''removed''' {{#if:{{{reason|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reasons:{{{reason|{{{2}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s):
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by removing the unnecessary details.

This should fix some things, and I also recommend you change the title or at least context of this proposal. If so, then I might change my vote. Altendo 19:58, December 9, 2024 (EST)

I fixed this problem for you. How does it look? GuntherBayBeee 09:40, December 10, 2024 (EST)

Create a template to use names consistently

canceled by proposer
This proposal is aiming to create a template called Template:T (short for "term"). It's similar in concept (thought not necessarily design) to Zelda Wiki's Term template, but to a lesser extent. Allow me to explain why I think such a template would benefit the site.

Let's take Princess Peach as an example. She has been known as Princess Toadstool to anglophones in games before Super Mario 64. Some people editing here, especially newcomers, may not immediately know that the Naming policy outlines that this website uses names depending on the subject's name within the media or supplementary material. We do not replace all instances of a name with the current one. But there's one game before Super Mario 64 where "Toadstool" is actually named Peach, Yoshi's Safari, so it could seem like a bit of a jump to read about "Toadstool" and then "Peach" for one paragraph, and then back to "Toadstool" again.

Some of the games call her Princess, like Super Mario Kart, which makes it more confusing. The source of History of Princess Peach acknowledges this and even has a editor notice explaining that "Princess" is her name in Super Mario Kart:

Princess<!--This is what the game titles her, so don't change it.--> is a playable character in ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. When controlled by the CPU, Princess can use [[Poison Mushroom]]s to shrink the other drivers.

So how the term template would work is that it would insert one of the subject's common names: we'll use Peach in this example, followed by the game abbreviation to replace instances of "Princess" within the article. Basically, Template:T working in conjunction with Template:A. So with that, we'd add {{t|Peach|SMK}} in place of "Princess":

{{t|Peach|SMK}} is a playable character in ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. When controlled by the CPU, {{t|Peach|SMK}} can use [[Poison Mushroom]]s to shrink the other drivers.

With how big the Super Mario franchise is, it can be difficult ensure accuracy with subject names all over the wiki. And it could arguably get more confusing with capitalized or lowercase names, like Super Mushroom is titled in The Super Mario Bros. Movie as red mushroom, in lowercase. It specifies that on the article, but if the name is used elsewhere, it may not be as obvious, so naming consistency can be even harder if we don't have an immediate reference of what "red mushroom" is (or how it's spelled) if we're to mention it on the Training Course article.

Subjects are renamed over time, like Banzai Bills used to be Bomber Bills, and newer or alternate names can be added to Template:T (or a list sub-template) over time. However, the template should be used within reason, so for example, we wouldn't add "Mario" to Template:T for most of his appearances because that's obviously his name used in those appearances. Meanwhile, subjects with naming discrepancies between appearances (e.g. Star, Starman, and Super Star) could allow for more flexibility on which name is input in Template:T, before the abbreviation. That would include Peach in Yoshi's Safari, so either {{t|Peach|YSafari}} (YSafari is stored as an abbreviation already) or {{t|Toadstool|YSafari}} would be acceptable. For Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, both {{t|Bowser|TSMBSS}} and {{t|King Koopa|TSMBSS}} would be acceptable to use.

It's difficult to know the fine line, and some further decisions or clarifications may have to be done along the way if this proposal passes. But ultimately, I think this will help editors along the way for subjects with naming discrepancies and not having to open tabs to refer to the article name to find the name used for that appearance.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.

Oppose

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Personally, we feel like this is made widely redundant by just... double-checking the names before writing them down. If a rookie editor messes up and calls Princess Peach "Princess Peach" in the article for a game where she was called Princess Toadstool, it's fairly easy to fix that. In addition, we fear this might cause an even more obnoxious issue of rookie editors instead leaving these templates in the article body, making editing the pages annoying until someone else manually replaces the term. We don't really see what the use is for a template that, by and large, is only really useful for the preview function, when at the end of the day, you could just refer to a game's article and quickly determine from there what name to use.
2. Hewer (talk) I don't feel like this would be particularly helpful to new users, if anything unnecessary templates like this could cause more confusion and feel unintuitive. This doesn't feel like solving the problem of having to remember which name to use so much as swapping it for a problem of having to remember how to use the template.
3. Ahemtoday (talk) Per Hewer — not to mention a problem of remembering which subjects have data in the template to begin with. All those further decisions and clarifications are going to have to be looked up anyway, defeating the point. And that's if the system is working as intended — to be blunt, the scope of these templates would have to be so large that I expect them to be poorly maintained.

Comments

@Camwoodstock I understand, but I do think it's convenient like when adding abbreviations. Is it "Klaptrap" or "KlapTrap" or "Klap Trap"? The template can be used to figure that part out and help with consistency, and if one sees the consistent output, they can fix the names used in Template:T accordingly. It won't be that hard to use, it may just take time getting used to, and it won't apply to the obvious like Mario in most of his appearances. I didn't say it'd be enforced, just like how Template:A isn't enforced (i.e. it's there for people who want to use it while editing, though I know someone who prefers not to use it, as a choice of personal preference). Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:26, December 30, 2024 (EST)

Decide how to handle nameless subjects

canceled by proposer
It's been five days since the last proposal had passed, and I never opposed it. Something tells me that the areas in galaxies from the Super Mario Galaxy games are nameless, with the titles of subsections being informal descriptors unless otherwise noted. Likewise, take Fréquence Kong for example; this skit aired in France and not in any other regions. I humbly suggest that there's a possibility to decide how to handle nameless subjects with three options:

Option 1

Create the {{informal descriptor}} and {{descriptor}} templates.

Option 2

Repurpose the {{conjecture}}, {{another language}}, {{dev data}}, and {{derivation}} templates.

Option 3

Do nothing

Here's what happens when option 1 passes.

First off, the {{informal descriptor}} template. This template will read as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptors]]''''' unless otherwise noted|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is an '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptor]]'''''}}. {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|Each|The}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>

The title of this article is an informal descriptor. The article's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

Using {{informal descriptor|section=yes}} will result in the following:

The title of this section is an informal descriptor. The section's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

Using {{informal descriptor|subsections=yes}} will result in the following:

The titles of the following subsections are informal descriptors unless otherwise noted. Each section's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

Next off, the {{descriptor}} template. This template will read as follows:

{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{hover|1={{{1}}}|2={{#if:{{{2|}}}|Informal descriptor for {{{2}}}|This name is an informal descriptor.}}}}|<sup style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal">[[[MarioWiki:Naming|''informal descriptor'']]]</sup>}}

^{[informal descriptor]}

Using {{descriptor|Starting planet}} will result in this:

Starting planet

Using {{descriptor|Starting planet|the planet}} will result in this:

Starting planet

Now we move onto what happens if option 2 passes. The source of the {{conjecture}} template will read as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}{{#if:{{{part|}}}|<nowiki/> for '''a part''' of its content|<nowiki/>; {{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|each|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject is nameless|an official name for {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|each|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject has not been found}}, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] name is found{{#if:{{{part|}}}|<nowiki/> for the currently unnamed portion of content}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{part|}}}|it may need to be split into a new article|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title}}.
</div>

For example, using the informal_descriptor parameter on the {{conjecture}} template will result in this:

The title of this article is conjectural, but it is also an informal descriptor; the article's subject is nameless, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

The source for the {{another language}} template will read as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} official, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they come|it comes}} from a{{#rmatch:{{{1}}}|^[AEIOU]|n}} '''{{{1|non-English}}} source'''{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, although {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] English name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>

For example, typing {{another language|French|informal_descriptor=yes}} will result in this:

The title of this article is official, but it comes from a French source, although it is also an informal descriptor.

The source of the {{dev data}} will read as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} from an official source, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} based on {{#if:{{{1|}}}|'''{{{1}}}'''|'''development data''' such as an internal filename}}{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, although {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] public name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>

For example, using the informal_descriptor parameter on the {{dev data}} template will result in this:

The title of this article is from an official source, but it is based on development data such as an internal filename, although it is also an informal descriptor.

The source of the {{derivation}} template will read as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} {{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}|<u>unofficial</u>}} and {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|have|has}} been '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming#Derived names|derived]]''''' by {{{1|combining English names based on established naming schemes, non-English names, and/or development data}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an official English name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}} that differs from the current name, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>

For example, using the informal_descriptor parameter on the {{derivation}} template will result in this:

The title of this article is an informal descriptor and has been derived by combining English names based on established naming schemes, non-English names, and/or development data.

It's important to know that informal descriptors are what we know, and it's true that we will decide how to handle them once this proposal passes.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: January 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Create the templates

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My primary choice

Option 2: Repurpose the title notices

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My secondary choice

Option 3: Do nothing

1. Ahemtoday (talk) Having a special name and template for informal descriptors is counterproductive because it makes them look more like names, not less. If we're going with the idea that the planets do not have proper names and we are simply describing them, that has to be accomplished through the way we write the articles and not through notice boxes. I bring up the planets specifically because I... don't really think there's any other situation on this wiki where this has ever been an issue. The only other example you bring up is Frequence Kong, and I do not see how that is an informal descriptor when it is just the French title.
2. Arend (talk) Honestly, this whole proposal is a bit confusing. First, do we really need to introduce the term "informal descriptor"? Aren't conjectural article titles already informal descriptors? "Informal" means "unofficial", after all, while "conjectural" means "speculative", which already practically means it's unofficial. If so, why do we need this, and if not, what IS an "informal descriptor", then? Second, regardless of choosing Option 1 or 2, if this is basically a way to put a notice template under the Galaxy planet names, isn't this basically a repeal of a repeal but using a different term that may or may not mean the same thing as "conjectural"? Third, the proposed wording for the affected templates for Option 2 sound a bit odd: "The title of this article is conjectural, but it is also an informal descriptor" is weird because, as I already stated, a conjectural title may already be an informal descriptor, because of the "informal" = "unofficial" = "speculative" = "conjectural" thing I stated earlier; "The title of this article is official, but it comes from a French source, although it is also an informal descriptor" could potentially be oxymoronic because nearly all titles with the {{another language}} template already use the official title untranslated, therefor being impossible to be informal a.k.a. unofficial, and when they are unofficially translated, they may be more fit to use {{derivation}} anyway; and "The title of this article is from an official source, but it is based on development data such as an internal filename, although it is also an informal descriptor" is either oxymoronic or synonymous depending on if the title is literally taken from an official filename, or derived from one. Either way, the inclusion of these templates already implies an informal English descriptor so it's really confusing why words like "but" or "although" are chosen when "and" or "therefore" may fit better. Fourth, why is Option B to repurpose the {{conjecture}}, {{another language}}, {{dev data}}, and {{derivation}} templates, when all that's being changed is that an option is being added that clarifies that the article titles are "informal descriptors"? "Repurpose" means that the templates are to be adapted for an entirely different purpose, yet from what I can tell, all these templates retain their original purpose if Option 2 wins. All in all (tl;dr), I honestly don't think these changes are needed since "informal" already means "unofficial" which we have plenty of templates for, and that this proposal is a bit confusing.
3. Hewer (talk) There's no such thing as "nameless" article subjects, they're either officially named or conjecturally named. (The planets from Galaxy are different as they aren't article subjects - one of the points from that passed proposal was that they are just parts of a level, not really individual subjects in their own right.) I have no idea what the distinction is between "conjectural" and "informal descriptor", the proposal doesn't really explain (in fact, it implies that even official names can be "informal descriptors", whatever that means, if they're from another language, even though that's Template:Another language's job). This is a pointless template for a pointless distinction. There's also the fact that this proposal seems to be another attempt to stuff the galaxy articles with redundant notice templates, which was just repealed for a reason.
4. Nintendo101 (talk) I think this idea is technocratic. Not every "type" of moniker benefits from having a template. As stated by others, informal descriptors are not names. While assume this is incidental, this proposal sort of undermines the point of that Super Mario Galaxy proposal that passed recently: the issue wasn't the type of templates. The issue was that the templates were unattractive and detracted from those articles without substantive benefit. Simply replacing those templates with new one simply recreates the problem.
5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Nintendo101; the issue with the Galaxy articles wasn't just the templates being a misnomer, it was the fact that they were being used under pretenses that probably weren't accurate in the first place (namely, the idea that the majority of planets have official names, which does not seem to be the case) and were, for lack of a better term, an incredibly intrusive eyesore. The best way to resolve that would likely involve a policy shift, not re-introducing a different form of those same templates.

Comments (informal descriptor / descriptor)

As the guy behind the derived names proposal, I would like to note that derived names by design cannot be informal. They are gathered by comparing proper names from the source language or source code, if you will against related proper names in English. This has been relevant for the Kyodai na Hoppin, whose official Japanese name is informal, translating roughly to "Hoppycat that is giant", and has been left in Japanese as a result.--PopitTart (talk) 16:10, December 30, 2024 (EST)

@GuntherBayBeee Forgive me if this is off-topic, but I've noticed that a lot of your proposals are about either introducing new (notice) templates to replace old ones (even when it's not needed), or changing old (notice) templates to include new features (even if they work fine without those) or to change its purpose (again, even if they already work fine the way they are): Is there a reason why you want to change the wiki's structure of its (notice) templates so much? Is it to mimic Wikipedia's style more, is it to distance ourselves from Wikipedia or other Wikis, is it something else? Because to me, several of your (notice) template proposals seem unnecessary; no offense. rend (talk) (edits) 16:13, December 30, 2024 (EST)

Decide what to do with Template:Move infobox

Keep Move Infobox 7-0-0
A while ago (November 4th, specifically), I created Template:Move infobox. After all, we had templates for essentially all the Browse tabs on the wiki sidebar, except for moves. There WERE templates about specific types of moves, such as Template:M&L attack infobox, but no general template in the same vein as items, characters, species, games, locations, etc.

I discussed it on the Discord briefly, nobody said no, and a bit of feedback later about how it should look and what it should have, I created it. It has since been applied to exactly four pages at the time of writing, half of which I was the one to apply it to. In hindsight, this could've used with a proposal instead of me just making it, so here's a belated one.

Should we keep Template:Move infobox around? If we do keep it, is it good as is, or does it need changes?

Proposer: EvieMaybe (talk)
Deadline: January 1st, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Keep Move infobox, as is

1. Sparks (talk) I can see this template working really well for moves that aren't in every Mario game, like Spin. This has lots of potential!
2. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) We don't see why not--having a dedicated Moves infobox could come in handy, especially if we get any more Mario RPGs in the wake of the weird little renaissance period we've been getting with the back-to-back-to-back SMRPG remake, TTYD remake, and release of Brothership. Per proposal.
4. Pseudo (talk) Per proposal.
5. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
6. Salmancer (talk) It would bring more attention to our move pages. I'm down for that.
7. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per all.

Move infobox Comments

Considering the nature of the attack infoboxes, wouldn't it be weird to have moves all in purple but a Mario & Luigi attack use yellow and green and a Paper Mario attack use white and green? Should there be variants of the Move infobox to match the color schemes of existing templates? If an article is covering multiple related moves, how will the infobox work? (ex. Handstand, Cap Throw, Roll, Slide Kick... there's more of these than I thought). What happens when a move is referenced in somewhat less "move-y" ways? Okay, that last one is kinda strange, but basically I mean "dashing" in Super Mario Run is just a fancy animation, Mario & Luigi Dream Team has an animation where Giant Luigi crouches (with posing and skidding clearly meant to be a platformer callback), to slide under an attack. Do these instances get incorporated into the infobox? Continuing the train of thought, what about sports games? Yoshi can Flutter Jump as his special action on Mario & Sonic games. Does that count as a method of input for a Flutter Jump? Salmancer (talk) 21:35, December 19, 2024 (EST)

that's a lot of very interesting questions!

• i went with purple to set it apart from the already taken light red (game), green and white (character), blue (level), pink (location), grey (item) and navy/grey (species) infoboxes. changing the color could be a good idea.
• as for sorting which moves "count" or not, we have to decide these things for other types of subject too, after all, and they get infoboxes. it's a valid concern, though! — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 15:09, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Set Vector-2010 to the default wiki skin

do not set 1-8
This proposal is about setting the 2010 Vector as the default wiki skin (screenshot here) for desktop users, with the focus being on people who are new to wikis in particular, while obviously keeping the existing MonoBook skin as an option. What made me think to create this proposal is when I made a Talk:Main Page proposal about the to-do list tasks and how they are more accessible than clicking the "Wiki maintenance" on the sidebar, I had to uncomfortably squint to find "Wiki maintenance" on the wiki sidebar. But Vector-2010 has the sidebar links slightly larger and a bit more spaced out. With the existing interface, there could be some who may struggle to find options listed on the sidebar.

While we're clearly different from Wikipedia (that's why I'm not Vector-2022, since it'd be too much of a departure and likely uncomfortable for several), I do want to refer to this page, which summarizes why Wikipedia transitioned to it. Though it is vague, they cite accessibility as the reason, which I think this wiki has been taking steps toward doing.

I'll cite my reasons for preferring Vector and applying this to possible people who are visiting a wiki for the first time. The text is larger, which is especially important for larger screen monitors, some of the lesser used tabs are collapsible on the sidebar, summarizing the most commonly used options, and the user links at the top right are also more noticeable and less close to the body of the article where the content is read.

Though it could take time getting used to the Edit button being on the right (not to mention the search button), the button is at least larger, making it more usable on even lower quality screen monitors, and I like how it's separate from the Page and discussion options, meaning that options that involve viewing articles are on the left while options that involve editing or changing the page in some form are on the right.

If this proposal passes and others don't like the change, they can always return to the MonoBook option in their preferences.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.

Oppose

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Admittedly, this vote is largely a matter of preference--we just don't like Vector that much--but we can't think of any real reason to switch to Vector 2010 as the default over the current Monobook beyond the mentioned text spacing; while that is a nice boon, we personally find the weird gradient buttons for the various tabs up top a little grating looking, and we're a fan of the more compact design that Monobook provides--though, this is likely a byproduct of our personal preference for more neatly packed web design. And uh, the less said about the other two options (Vector 2022, and. Timeless. Which is the most dated theme possible, namely to mid-2010s mobile web design.), the better. If you like Vector 2010, that's great, and we're fine with that! Heck, if anyone likes Vector 2022 or Timeless, that's cool too, and more power to them! Variety is the spice of life, after all. But switching it to the default is something that should not be taken lightly, and the reasons for a switch in this proposal feel a little too loosey-goosey for us, we're sorry.
2. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per Camwoodstock.
3. Nintendo101 (talk) I like how MonoBook looks a little more than Vector. It is what I am comfortable with. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
4. Drago (talk) Per Nintendo101. I actually prefer the smaller text of Monobook since you can see more of the page at once. I also want to point out that although logged-in users like us can change the skin in preferences, we'd still be forcing the change on logged-out users.
5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per Drago.
6. Technetium (talk) Per Nintendo101 and Drago. I just don't see any reason to make this change.
7. Altendo (talk) I'm saying this as a Vector-2010 skin user, and I'll say that people have their preferences. I live Vector-2010 because that is how Wikipedia at least used to look before they switched to Vector (2022); On Wikipedia, Vector was renamed to Vector legacy (2010), while Vector 2022 is named Vector (2022). Although I do prefer Vector-2010, I know a lot of people that prefer Monobook, and even if not, this can be changed in the preferences. No need to change the default skin. I get that IPs can't change their appearance, but aside from that, users can, and what they see doesn't have to be default on the wiki. Everyone can change what they specifically see.
8. Sparks (talk) Per all.

Comments

@Camwoodstock That is true that it's a major change. It's based mainly upon impression from newcomers from them seeing a more prominent edit tab, slightly larger text size, and other minor details like tab names that are easier to read (including a collapsible feature for the lesser used tab). The skin change was based on old Wikipedia research at the time (like how WikiLove was a result of their research). I have no strong feelings whether this passes or not. Although it's vague, since there's no way to tell the statistics (and the wiki's already successful at the moment), I still have a feeling it could help some, but to each their own. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:32, December 18, 2024 (EST)

We feel like if anybody would be capable of providing any statistics on skin usage, it'd be Porple, but even then, we don't actually know if that's one of the things he tracks, and it feels a little silly to pester him over this of all things... ;p ~Camwoodstock (talk) 18:55, December 18, 2024 (EST)

I'm okay with opposition, but in case of misunderstanding, this proposal isn't about personal preferences so much as what I believe to be a more ergonomic interface to a wider audience. I know we're not Wikipedia, but there's also the consideration that they've used the Vector skin longer than they had for MonoBook. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:45, December 19, 2024 (EST)

If it's what "you believe", then it ultimately (and probably unavoidably) is about personal preferences. Anyway, another consideration is the fact that people often prefer what they're used to. I feel like how long this wiki has used its skin is more relevant than how long Wikipedia has. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:39, December 19, 2024 (EST)

@Hewer I suppose I'm overthinking the ergonomic interface. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:19, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Merge various sports location pages into their base articles

canceled by proposer
Recently, a proposal had passed allowing various locations to be split from their base pages for taking up too much room, like how Toad Town will have Toad Town (Paper Mario), since there's lots more game-specific information to cover. On the contrary, there are these lesser Super Mario titles that have their location split despite them usually consisting of just a single paragraph that could easily be stated within the base article. I'll explain further:

For this proposal I'll be concerning the sports games such as Mario Tennis, Hoops, and Sports Mix. Since golf has several holes, it may be better covering that in a different proposal. This proposal will not concern any of the Mario Kart courses, either. If this proposal passes, the locations within this scope will be merged back into their base pages.

These are, after all, the same location, just in different and smaller contexts. Excluding gimmicks, there is a lack of interactivity with the environment itself, so there are no enemies to fight, no items to collect. It's just the setting of locations where a sport takes place.

Okay so let's take Bowser's Castle (Mario Tennis Open) as an example. Only a single paragraph that could easily fit into the Bowser's Castle page. The only thing that would be lost is the infobox, but that's not needed to specify every individual tennis court in Mario Tennis Open, for this example. The only other parameters besides the game location is the ball speed and bounce strength, both of which can be stated in a single sentence. The Mario Tennis Open navbox already fulfills that role.

I'll take another example: Bowser Castle (baseball stadium). This one has a single paragraph for both Mario Superstar Baseball and Mario Super Sluggers. Again, both can be mentioned on the Bowser's Castle page, and if there's a need for accessibility to either game section, we could make it a disambiguation, if the community wants. The Japanese name is slightly different from Bowser's Castle but is still meant to be a descriptor for Bowser's Castle itself.

If you look at Luigi's Mansion (Mario Hoops 3-on-3), it's ridiculously short, and the gimmicks involving the ghosts are the only real distinctive feature that involves the environment of the mansion during gameplay.

Keep in mind this proposal will also concern short articles on names that are different to anglophones, such as Luigi's Mansion Court, but not to the original Japanese versions. Stages like Delfino Plaza Court have a different name, even in Japanese, so keeping that out of the scope of this proposal and perhaps for a separate one.

Also consider that the disambiguation pages for Luigi's Mansion (disambiguation) would be more cleared up with the benefit of these pages being merged so one can find actual different subjects that are named "Luigi's Mansion," not a backdrop location in a single-appearance context.

The following pages will be merged into the following if this proposal passes:

• Bowser's Castle (Mario Tennis Open), Bowser Castle (baseball stadium), Bowser's Castle (Mario Sports Mix), and Bowser's Castle (Mario Hoops 3-on-3) into Bowser's Castle
• Peach's Castle (Dribble Race course) and Peach's Castle (court) into Peach's Castle
• Luigi's Mansion Court, Luigi's Mansion (Mario Hoops 3-on-3), Luigi's Mansion (baseball stadium), and Luigi's Mansion (Mario Sports Mix) into Luigi's Mansion (location)

Again, Mario Kart is not under the scope of this proposal, so there won't be discussion over like merging Daisy Cruiser (baseball stadium) into GCN Daisy Cruiser.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 16, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.

Merge various Super Smash Bros. stages into their base pages

canceled by proposer
Accompanying my above proposal is a proposal to merge various Super Smash Bros. stage pages into their base articles. Besides the Song list, the pages are short enough that I think they can be integrated into the base article. Basically, the same arguments into my above proposal of merging sports locations apply here, though I will provide some SSB-specific reasons to the articles below (including the ones NOT covered by this proposal). It doesn't have as much gameplay distinction as the role-playing games, for example, which are being split for having a wide variety of features, such as items, enemies, and NPCs, so those needed more forms of accessibility. Though this isn't the main point to the proposal, I still want to say that the featured articles for Super Smash Bros. content are already on SmashWiki, and some may benefit from more prominence being given to the stage pages on their wiki.

To start, I'll give the example of 75 m (stage) and 75m. They're the exact same thing, just in the context of a Super Smash Bros. stage. This would allow the SmashWiki link to point to 75m and better convey to the reader that 75m is featured in the context of a Super Smash Bros. stage overall.

Peach's Castle isn't part of this proposal since it takes place away far above the actual castle, which is just a background graphic. For consistency and separate discussion, I'll leave out Princess Peach's Castle (Super Smash Bros. Melee) as well. Gamer (stage) will also not be covered since the base page is a minigame mode. Kongo Falls has retroactively received different naming, in English, Japanese, and other languages, so that won't be part of this proposal either. The Super Smash Bros. and Super Smash Bros. Melee Mushroom Kingdom stages won't be covered, since their Japanese names are different and they don't give clear representation of Mushroom Kingdom as a whole; this also goes for Jungle Hijinxs (stage), which will not be covered by this proposal. I'd say Mario Bros. (stage), but there doesn't appear to be article on the corresponding location, from what it looks. Jungle Japes (stage) won't be merged to Jungle Japes since the origin is not considered by SSB to be DK64, despite the same names.

Stages like 3D Land and Yoshi's Story (stage) represent the overall theme of the game, and not a location from the game, so those will also not be within the scope of this proposal. Super Happy Tree (stage) is a gray area since it's an area with the Super Happy Tree in the background but not in any interactable capacity.

The following pages will be merged into the following if this proposal passes:

• 75 m (stage) and 75m
• Luigi's Mansion (stage) into Luigi's Mansion (location)
• Delfino Plaza (stage) into Delfino Plaza
• Kongo Jungle (Super Smash Bros.) into Kongo Jungle
• New Donk City Hall (stage) into New Donk City Hall
• Rainbow Cruise into Rainbow Ride (both take place in the same location and Rainbow Cruise has the same Japanese name)
• Rumble Falls (stage) into Rumble Falls
• Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros. Melee) and Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros. Brawl) into Yoshi's Island (location)

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 16, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.

Oppose

1. Axii (talk) These stages fundamentally have a different function and purpose from the stage they were based on (and it would be inconsistent to leave out the stages that are near identical to their base material).
2. Mario (talk) All these exceptions granted in the proposal create an unnecessarily complex tangled web and make me believe the right call is to leave these split. I view these stages the same vein how other spinoffs grant separate iterations of the same location, which we typically split. I believe we split several RPG locations already, or at least there is an ongoing proposal that gathered a solid consensus, due the large information these locations tend to have, too. You should consider the hypothetical argument of merging the other Luigi's Mansions and whatnot, which I believe is not a solid case. See how those pages are split at Luigi's Mansion (disambiguation).

Create the {{SMG trading card}} template

canceled by proposer
Two days ago, the {{SMG trading card}} template has been deleted because it's an unofficially created template that was created without approval. But today, I'll have to start over by making a proposal about the possibility to create the template.

As you can see, the {{content description}} template is being removed for deletion. The administrator who tagged this template with the {{delete-request}} tag gave the following reason why the template should be deleted:

“Less flexible than, and to be replaced with, normal table coding, as decided by the admins. Please do not continue to use this template for any more pages.”

—Mario jc

In this case, I humbly propose that there's a possibility to create the {{SMG trading card}} template.

Here's what happens if this proposal passes. We'll start off with the source. First of all, this is what the source of the template that is surrounded by the <includeonly> markup will look like:

{| class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"| <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|{{{name|{{PAGETITLE}}}}}|{{{altname|}}}}}</span>
|-
|rowspan={{#if:{{{desc|}}}|2|1}} style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"|{{{image|[[File:No image.png|100px|center|class=notpageimage]]
[[Special:Upload|<small>Upload one!</small>]]}}}
|style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|1|2}}px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"|'''Type'''
|style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|1|2}}px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"|{{{type|}}}
{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''{{{desc|}}}''}}
|}

And second of all, this is what the source of the template that is surrounded by the <noinclude> markup will look like:

This template displays trading card data from ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]''. The variables are as follows:

{|class="wikitable floatright" style="width:75%; margin:0 0 1em 1em"
!colspan=2|Syntax
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>name=</code> || What appears on the card.
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>altname=</code> || The displayed name of what appears on the card. (optional)
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>image=</code> || An image of the card.
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>type=</code> || The card's type.
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>description=</code> || A description of what appears on the card.
|}

This template displays trading card data from Super Mario Galaxy. The variables are as follows:

Syntax
|name=	What appears on the card.
|altname=	The displayed name of what appears on the card. (optional)
|image=	An image of the card.
|type=	The card's type.
|description=	A description of what appears on the card.

{{SMG trading card
|name=
|altname=
|image=
|type=
|desc=
}}

We'll use the <pre> markup for the example above (which will be placed below |}), followed by [[Category:Horizontal infoboxes]] being placed below the </pre> tag.

But now for examples of how the {{SMG trading card}} template is used. Images of character, boss, enemy, and item cards use the x200px size while images of location cards use the 200px size. Here's an example of some trading card profiles:

{{SMG trading card
|name=Mario
|image=[[File:MarioTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Character
|desc=Mario, the greatest hero in all the Mushroom Kingdom, takes off on a celestial adventure to rescue Princess Peach. During the Star Festival, Bowser descends in his air fleet and steals the princess away to an unknown place in the galaxy! Now Mario must travel through space, fending off enemies and evil bosses to rescue the princess and restore order to the universe.
}}

Mario
	Type	Character
	Mario, the greatest hero in all the Mushroom Kingdom, takes off on a celestial adventure to rescue Princess Peach. During the Star Festival, Bowser descends in his air fleet and steals the princess away to an unknown place in the galaxy! Now Mario must travel through space, fending off enemies and evil bosses to rescue the princess and restore order to the universe.

{{SMG trading card
|name=Bowser
|image=[[File:BowserTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Boss
|desc=Mario's archnemesis returns to the Mushroom Kingdom with a dastardly plan in hand. He surprise-attacks during the Star Festival, descending in his air fleet, and kidnaps Princess Peach! He takes her and her entire castle away into the far reaches of the universe, where Mario must travel to rescue her and restore order to the Mushroom Kingdom.
}}

Bowser
	Type	Boss
	Mario's archnemesis returns to the Mushroom Kingdom with a dastardly plan in hand. He surprise-attacks during the Star Festival, descending in his air fleet, and kidnaps Princess Peach! He takes her and her entire castle away into the far reaches of the universe, where Mario must travel to rescue her and restore order to the Mushroom Kingdom.

{{SMG trading card
|name=Kamek
|image=[[File:KamekTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Enemy
|desc=Bowser's evil minion, Kamek, is a powerful wizard who will do anything to please his master. After Bowser hoisted Peach's entire castle out of the ground in a massive laser attack, Mario clung on to the castle walls trying to save her. Kamek saw this and cast a spell on Mario that sent him floating out into the universe.
}}

Bowser
	Type	Enemy
	Bowser's evil minion, Kamek, is a powerful wizard who will do anything to please his master. After Bowser hoisted Peach's entire castle out of the ground in a massive laser attack, Mario clung on to the castle walls trying to save her. Kamek saw this and cast a spell on Mario that sent him floating out into the universe.

{{SMG trading card
|name=Bee Mushroom
|image=[[File:BeeMushroomTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Item
|desc=What's all the buzz about? When Mario grabs one of these yellow mushrooms with the brown stripes, he powers up into Bee Mario! This fun and helpful mushroom is first found in the Honeyhive Galaxy after collecting a Question Coin. Bee Mario (or Bee Luigi) has the ability to fly for a short time and climb honeycomb walls.
}}

Bee Mushroom
	Type	Item
	What's all the buzz about? When Mario grabs one of these yellow mushrooms with the brown stripes, he powers up into Bee Mario! This fun and helpful mushroom is first found in the Honeyhive Galaxy after collecting a Question Coin. Bee Mario (or Bee Luigi) has the ability to fly for a short time and climb honeycomb walls.

{{SMG trading card
|name=Bouncing Down Cake Lane
|image=[[File:CakeLaneTradingCard.png|200px]]
|type=Location
|desc=Bouncing down Cake Lane in the Toy Time Galaxy, Mario must traverse a series of planetoids made of yummy desserts like giant tarts, ice-cream cones, chocolate bars, and of course birthday cake! Find the birthday candles and blow them out by spinning next to them. But watch out, this move may prompt an attack from a mean-spirited mole.
}}

Bouncing Down Cake Lane
	Type	Location
	Bouncing down Cake Lane in the Toy Time Galaxy, Mario must traverse a series of planetoids made of yummy desserts like giant tarts, ice-cream cones, chocolate bars, and of course birthday cake! Find the birthday candles and blow them out by spinning next to them. But watch out, this move may prompt an attack from a mean-spirited mole.

This template is something we want to use for trading card profiles. That way, in case the {{content description}} template gets deleted, we'll replace it with the {{SMG trading card}} template.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: January 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Create the template

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) There's nothing wrong with having more niche templates like these.

Oppose: Leave nonexistent

1. Waluigi Time (talk) This can easily be done with standard wikitable formatting, and the proposed design violates the standards laid out in this proposal. IMO these don't even need tables, see here.
2. Technetium (talk) Per Waluigi Time.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Waluigi Time. In addition, we do have a bit of a more petty concern, in that a large portion of articles in our Deprecated templates maintenance category are from templates like this.
4. Nintendo101 (talk) I will reiterate what I said on GuntherBayBee's talk page, "We really do not need additional, hyperspecific templates like this on the site. These templates can be very difficult to edit later on, and can be user unfriendly. As a general rule of thumb, if your template cannot do anything different from what a normal wikitable can, it is probably not necessary." I encourage folks to look at this wikitable here and consider what is materially insufficient with it, and if there is something insufficient with it, why can't one just modify the table as is? What does this template actually improve? I would like to make an additional remark that is a little tangential to this proposal, but engages with the mindset behind it. We have some users on the site that are very invested in making the site an easier and more inviting experience for new editors. That is an appreciated goal. However, from my long experience online and being involved in a diversity of wikis, I think an overreliance on templates, especially cryptic and unintuitive ones, are often more discouraging to new users than any perceived benefit that comes from a niche template, and I have seen them kneecap the community involvement of some of our NIWA affiliates in ways they would not have otherwise (in conjunction with some other policies that hamstring involvement). In my view, if a new user is coming to this site and wants to contribute, they should not feel like they need to be a savant in HTML coding, templates, or site policy. They should just feel like they need baseline reading comprehension and writing skills.
5. Salmancer (talk) I wouldn't have voted at all before but Nintendo101 makes a strong case. Like, I do get being fancy and fun, that's cool. Specialized templates can enable that. But also there is a proposal that passed that disposes of doing fancy flippy tricks for tables in articles. One of its points was specifically binning doing things across multiple rows except when necessary, something that this template would be doing unnecessarily. I guess templates that exist to be fancy have to go too.
6. Sparks (talk) Per all.

Comments (SMG trading card)

If this proposal fails, are you going to protect the {{SMG trading card}} template from creation? GuntherBayBeee 13:36, January 4, 2025 (EST)

Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork

Split into separate categories 8-0
This proposal will address the bloat some image categories have and make them easier to navigate.

Why is this useful? It makes adding to galleries or finding images to replace much easier. If you want to retake screenshots from a game, you can go to the screenshots category to find them. If you have sprite rips to replace, there's a category for that. The same goes for finding images from a game that aren't on the gallery already and being able to sort them more efficiently. This is also how we divide up character galleries already, such as Gallery:Mario (2010-2019).

Now, I can see a few edge cases, like when games have screenshots of themselves for credits images (i.e. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)). I would still classify these as assets, since they are ripped from the game. Artwork that is used in smaller forms in-game, such as in Super Mario Maker 2, would be classified as artwork if externally released or an asset if it was ripped from the game files. Edge cases shouldn't be too common and they're easy to work out: it's not too different from how we license images or put them in character or subject galleries.

I think the name "assets" would be more useful in shorthand than "sprites and models," in addition to covering textures, so I propose for the category to be called that, but I can change it if there's opposition. The global images category can still exist in the case there's scans, merchandise, video screenshots, or such images that cannot be further categorized.

And in accordance with Waluigi Time's comment, this won't be necessary for each game, especially smaller ones like WarioWare: Snapped!. As a rule of thumb, I'd say about 25 images minimum of a certain type would be enough for a sub-category.

Proposer: Scrooge200 (talk)
Deadline: January 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Scrooge200 (talk) Per proposal.
2. Waluigi Time (talk) I support this in principle, as long as there's room for discretion on what gets split and what gets left alone. A game with only ten or so pieces of artwork doesn't need a separate category for them, they can just stay in the main images category for that game. Otherwise, this seems useful, I just don't want users to go overboard by purely following the letter of this proposal.
3. Salmancer (talk) I've tried to see if an image I wanted to use was already uploaded via the category, which would encourage me to make the text and get the article up. Due to the sheer number of images, this is a bad idea. This proposal will make that less of a bad idea for cases where an asset or artwork is being searched for.
4. EvieMaybe (talk) hell yea
5. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.
6. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.
7. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per proposal, as long as Waluigi Time's feedback is taken on board.
8. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Waluigi Time.

Comments

This is already being done (e.g. Category:Mario Kart Tour item icons). Super Mario RPG (talk) 11:02, December 23, 2024 (EST)

Establish a consistent table format for the "Recipes" section on Paper Mario item pages

Establish new table format 21-0
Recently on the wiki's Discord server, the user PalaceSwitcher brought up how inconsistent the recipe tables are for Paper Mario series item pages. They even went through every page and categorized how the tables on each differ, determining that 12 variations exist. 12! Dreadful. Where's the lamb sauce consistency?!

With that said, I think it would be best if we simply come up with a new table format altogether, and then implement it onto all these pages for both consistency and better readability - this format, which will utilize normal table coding, will replace the PM recipe list template in use previously. Many pages are also missing recipes, and having an outline to follow will make it easier for those to be completed. Another issue with all 12 current variations that there is one big table per page, requiring another column to specify which game(s) the recipe is in. Not only does an extra game column make the table clunkier, but it's harder for a reader to spot the exact game they're looking for. Sure, there might be repeated recipes on a page, but I feel the benefits of having one table per game outweigh this possible negative. A few pages also incorporate item icons into their tables, which I think should be the case on every page because they really help with readability; by splitting by game, we can use game-specific icons (names too, actually).

So, here's what I'm thinking the "Recipes" section of these pages could look like with the new table format. I'll use Mushroom Steak as an example, considering it's an item found in all three games. Note that each game will be its own subsection you can jump to on the actual pages, but doing so here could mess up the formatting of the proposal.

Paper Mario

Recipe	Result
Ultra Shroom	Shroom Steak
Life Shroom + Dried Shroom
Life Shroom + Mushroom
Life Shroom + Ultra Shroom
Ultra Shroom + Mushroom
Ultra Shroom + Super Shroom
Ultra Shroom + Volt Shroom
Ultra Shroom + Dried Shroom
Life Shroom + Super Shroom
Shroom Steak + Potato Salad	Deluxe Feast

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Recipe	Result
Ultra Mushroom	Mushroom Steak
Life Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Ultra Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Volt Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Golden Leaf	Mushroom Steak (International) Life Mushroom (Japan)
Life Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Golden Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Mushroom Steak + Healthy Salad	Zess Deluxe

Super Paper Mario

Recipe	Result
Ultra Shroom Shake	Shroom Steak
Shroom Steak + Gorgeous Steak	Dyllis Deluxe
Shroom Steak + Roast Shroom Dish

For adding item links and their icons, any one of these three options is valid:

• Mushroom Steak — Template:PM item for all three games
• Mushroom Steak — Template:PMTTYD item for TTYD or Template:SPM item for SPM
• Mushroom Steak — linking a file normally

Feel free to leave any ideas you have for the new table outline in the comments!

Proposer: Technetium (talk)
Deadline: January 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on January 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT

MasterChef (Support)

1. Technetium (talk) As Gordon Ramsay proposer.
2. PaperSplash (talk) Per proposer.
3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - THANK YOU. Unshrink the icons and this'd be perfect, but this is a good start.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) - This is so thoroughly overdue. Per proposal!
5. Super Mario RPG (talk) - This works better than my solution.
6. Jdtendo (talk) Looks good!
7. Blinker (talk) Per proposal
8. LadySophie17 (talk) Looks good to me.
9. Sparks (talk) Per all.
10. Pseudo (talk) Per all.
11. EvieMaybe (talk) per all!!!
12. Zootalo (talk) Per all.
13. PalaceSwitcher (talk) Per all.
14. Waluigi Time (talk) Now we're cooking.
15. Tails777 (talk) Yes Chef! (Per proposal, the tables look good)
16. PopitTart (talk) Always a fan of a good consistent format for tables.
17. OmegaRuby (talk) Per all - consistency makes my brain happy!
18. Mario (talk) Huh. Why is the design for these recipe tables always an issue in this wiki???
19. Green Star (talk) Per all!
20. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per all.
21. FanOfYoshi (talk) Finally! Some good fucking food!

Cooking Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick What size do you think the icons should be? I just did 25x25px since that's what they are on the Shooting Star page, one of the only pages to currently use icons. Feel free to make an example table here. Technetium (talk) 21:05, December 31, 2024 (EST)

I think that except for the TTYD remake, they should ideally just be their native size. Aside from the aforementioned remake, none get big enough for that to be an issue. (At the very least, the image links should work, because in the current setup, clicking on the icon does diddly-squat when it logically should do what clicking on an image would normally do.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:59, December 31, 2024 (EST)

I would prefer for all the icons to be the same size if possible. When at native size besides the TTYD remake, they look like this next to each other:

As for the links, I didn't include them because it felt redundant when the page links are right next to them too (and the Shooting Star page didn't have them). If people disagree, I'd totally add links, though - let me know. There still wouldn't be a link to the item a page is about, as you could imagine. Technetium (talk) 22:18, December 31, 2024 (EST)

When I click on a sprite I generally want to go to the image file page. Granted, I have used images to link to pages on rare occasions to match in-game formatting, but linking nowhere is just a waste - especially when it's shrunk, so you can't copy it to your computer's clipboard without it being compressed. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:21, December 31, 2024 (EST)

Ah, I assumed you meant linking to the item's page, not the file link. That makes more sense. Technetium (talk) 22:22, December 31, 2024 (EST)

Recipe	Result
Ultra Shroom	Shroom Steak
Life Shroom + Dried Shroom
Life Shroom + Mushroom

Recipe	Result
Ultra Mushroom	Mushroom Steak
Life Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Mushroom

Recipe	Result
Ultra Shroom Shake	Shroom Steak
Shroom Steak + Gorgeous Steak	Dyllis Deluxe
Shroom Steak + Roast Shroom Dish

Here are some tables with native sized icons (besides TTYD). Yeah, it does make SPM stand out more, though each game will be a separate subsection... and maybe TTYD could be made a bit larger? What do you guys think? I still prefer how they look in the proposal proper, though maybe those icons could be made a bit bigger (don't know if that would mess up the quality of the PM64 sprites, though...) Technetium (talk) 22:36, December 31, 2024 (EST)

Generally speaking, I'd go with making the TTYDNS sprites appear the same size as the TTYD raw size. So they could appear side-by-side easily. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:19, December 31, 2024 (EST)

I mean, I don't think I'm ever going to use the original TTYD sprites for these tables, given I was just going to merge TTYD and its remake into one section. I'm aware there are some recipe differences, but I was just going to mark those in the tables with the GCN and Switch logo icons. Technetium (talk) 08:55, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Personally, I really don't see the point in having the icons be shown in their native size. Having them be different sizes like that just looks clunky for no good reason. Blinker (talk) 09:44, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Spriter's itch. Seeing incorrectly sized sprites is not a pleasant sensation. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:42, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Well, now the icons link to the original sprite files. And I think far more readers would be bothered by the icons being different sizes. Your opinion is valid, but is likely very much the minority here. I'm going to keep the icons the same size as each other for this proposal, though I would be open to making them a bit bigger if people would prefer that (though I don't think the PM64 ones really can get much bigger without their quality being lowered). Technetium (talk) 13:48, January 1, 2025 (EST)

I really don't think the concept of a "correct" size really applies here? These aren't NES games or whatever. The resolution of a sprite doesn't dictate its size on the screen anyway. Especially across different games with varying resolutions. So why should it dictate it here, you know? Blinker (talk) 13:58, January 1, 2025 (EST)

PM64's sprites are, at the very least, generally consistent resolution to each other per shared camera distance. There are exceptions, like things that appear in multiple sizes (notably the Bloopers). Later games have more complex sprites in pieces that may or may not have a relatively consistent resolution, but "icon"-type sprites such as these invariably do relative to each other. Anyway, resized pixels just look kinda icky, so I prefer, personally, to minimize use of that if it can be helped. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:33, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Honestly, our only worry is if anyone is willing/able to go and implemenent this proposal in all the articles when this is done, so as to prevent a scenario like this... ;P ~Camwoodstock (talk) 10:40, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Oh don't worry, I plan on working on it. Just stinks the proposal won't end until after my winter break ends too… eh, I'll probably still have plenty of free time. Technetium (talk) 10:46, January 1, 2025 (EST)

I do prefer it recipe ingredients were separated by line breaks. It's just easier for me to discern where a recipe begins and ends. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 12:56, January 1, 2025 (EST)

What would this look like in a table? If you could make a little example. Technetium (talk) 13:02, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Something like this

Recipe	Result
Ultra Shroom Life Shroom + Dried Shroom Life Shroom + Mushroom Life Shroom + Ultra Shroom Ultra Shroom + Mushroom Ultra Shroom + Super Shroom	Shroom Steak
Shroom Steak + Potato Salad	Deluxe Feast

I also think it beats out using rowspan. The resulting code is easier to parse too. It was like this before btw, but it was changed to all those cells, and I just think this display is much easier to tell which ingredient list for a dish is the last one before the next dish begins. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 14:53, January 1, 2025 (EST)

The only issue is that some of the icons bump into each other, and I'd rather not remove the icons because they greatly increase readability. Technetium (talk) 15:01, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Yeah. I just want to find a way to help separate the dishes better. Maybe introduce a bolder line around the dishes+recipes while the individual recipes have thinner lines. It just needs some visual organization. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:03, January 1, 2025 (EST)

I was actually just thinking of that, lol. I'll definitely edit that into the proposal - just don't have my computer atm, though I should in the next couple hours. Technetium (talk) 15:04, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Here's a test of adding thicker lines between recipies.

Recipe	Result
Ultra Mushroom	Mushroom Steak
Life Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Ultra Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Volt Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Golden Leaf	Mushroom Steak (International) Life Mushroom (Japan)
Life Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Golden Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Mushroom Steak + Healthy Salad	Zess Deluxe

--PopitTart (talk) 16:20, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Thanks! I think the lines are a bit too thick - maybe they could be 3 or even 2 px? I'd also like the borders to be the same thickness so they don't stand out too much (and the lines beneath Recipe and Result). Technetium (talk) 16:23, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Okay, try #2 using lighter "internal borders" rather than thicker "external borders".

Recipe	Result
Ultra Mushroom	Mushroom Steak
Life Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Ultra Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Volt Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Golden Leaf	Mushroom Steak (International) Life Mushroom (Japan)
Life Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Golden Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Mushroom Steak + Healthy Salad	Zess Deluxe

--PopitTart (talk) 18:47, January 1, 2025 (EST)

This is perfect, thanks so much! I'll update the proposal shortly. Technetium (talk) 18:53, January 1, 2025 (EST)

All right! Let's try this out. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:47, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Our only real complaint we can think of is that on some screens, the faded border lines are a little too low-contrast. Aside from that, though, we think this is a very elegant solution! ~Camwoodstock (talk) 15:03, January 2, 2025 (EST)

Yeah, I’ve noticed that on mobile. Not really sure if there's anyway around that… Technetium (talk) 17:09, January 2, 2025 (EST)

With all of that figured out, does anyone have any suggestions regarding the width of the tables? Technetium (talk) 19:14, January 1, 2025 (EST)

I think they should be about 50% width. Small enough to not take up the entire width of the page but large enough to not have their content be cramped. PalaceSwitcher (talk) 13:36, January 2 2025 (EST)

Can you code an example of what this would look like compared to the current tables? And would this make the widths of each game equal? I was more so wondering here if each game's width should be equal or if that doesn't really matter. Technetium (talk) 13:41, January 2, 2025 (EST)

Recipe	Result
Ultra Mushroom	Mushroom Steak
Life Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Ultra Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Volt Mushroom
Ultra Mushroom + Dried Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Super Mushroom
Life Mushroom + Golden Leaf	Mushroom Steak (International) Life Mushroom (Japan)
Life Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Golden Leaf
Ultra Mushroom + Turtley Leaf
Mushroom Steak + Healthy Salad	Zess Deluxe

Here's an example at 50%. Every game should have the same table width for consistency. PalaceSwitcher (talk) 13:58, January 2 2025 (EST)

Ah, so that's how you do it. Thanks! Technetium (talk) 14:14, January 2, 2025 (EST)

Actually, there's one other topic I’d like to discuss. I talked about the icon links with Doc earlier, but people have differing opinions on the Discord so I thought I'd bring it up again. Should the icons link to the item's article, link to the file itself (as they do currently in the proposal tables), or link to nothing? I don't really have an opinion on it myself so I'd like to hear yours. Technetium (talk) 20:35, January 1, 2025 (EST)

Hmm, I'll summarize what has been discussed already. Having the icons link to their respective image file could be an issue as a reader could misclick on it instead of the actual article link. Having the icons link to the article more so just extends the size of the link functionally if anything, though it's redundant. Having no links just prevents the possibility of misclicking and makes the article links normally sized. While I can see the value in linking to the icon image itself, especially as they won't be natively sized here, the misclicking argument is compelling to me. Technetium (talk) 21:30, January 1, 2025 (EST)

As I see it, if a wiki reader is looking at the recipe tables of an item, they're more likely there because they want to know about the game mechanic of recipe making and the items involved, not their icon files. Sending them out of the main namespace because they misjudged where to click or tap slightly just creates a small bit of unnecessary friction. And if they do actually want the icons themselves, then its simple enough to follow the link to the respective item's own page and find the relevant images right in the infobox.--PopitTart (talk) 22:08, January 1, 2025 (EST)

???? The same argument can be made for icons in general. If you're already linking a subject in text, the image shouldn't just link to the same place. (That's irritated me several times... particularly on recipe tables.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:17, January 1, 2025 (EST)

This is why I'm wondering if we should just compromise by not linking to anything... which is how the proposal was earlier. Yeah, I'm really not so sure here, but I am starting to lean towards going back to that, and again, that's how it is on the Shooting Star page already. Technetium (talk) 22:39, January 1, 2025 (EST)

I don't really get where the assumption came from that no one could want to click the icons to go to the file page, despite that being the way images normally work on the wiki. Why is preventing misclicks more important than allowing intentional clicks? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 09:05, January 2, 2025 (EST)

In this case the images are both rather small and directly next to links to articles. I personally really like to avoid having links to different things right next to each other in general because it can mislead the reader into thinking there's one continuous link and, relevant to image links, makes it annoying to follow a specific link because missing it slightly (Which is especially likely on mobile) takes you somewhere totally different. Then you have to go back and try again, maybe even zooming in to get it properly. I feel like the annoyance this situation causes is worth avoiding at the cost of a slightly less convenient means of getting the image page. I'm only suggesting this because the links in question are going to the very same ingredient articles, which feature full galleries and infoboxes with easy to access images. Compare with {{World link}}.--PopitTart (talk) 19:23, January 2, 2025 (EST)

I'm definitely starting to lean towards not having the icons link to the files. I just don't know whether I should have the icons link to the item pages or link to nothing. Technetium (talk) 19:35, January 2, 2025 (EST)

Having them link to nothing is my least favourite of the three options. If we can't have them link to the file because people are actually trying to click the link next to it, we could at least have the image link to that same page for a better solution to that problem. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:25, January 3, 2025 (EST)

That's what I decided to do for now (see below). Technetium (talk) 07:31, January 3, 2025 (EST)

Sorry, but the idea of "accidentally" hitting a tiny image file trying to hit a much larger textual link is an utterly absurd idea, IMO, and even more absurd is it to cater to that already-tenuous hypothetical than the more likely scenario of clicking on the image to go to that image. Why add an extra step? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:31, January 3, 2025 (EST)

I decided to update the proposal tables using the PM item template, as this is easier to use. I used the PM item template for all three games, but feel free to use PMTTYD item or SPM item when implementing this proposal if you'd prefer, or even the file format I used previously - all of these lead to the same result. But yeah, I think I'm going to have the icons link to the articles - it only makes sense for a reader to want to click on the icon, as PopitTart mentioned on the wiki Discord server (also their comment above). Ultimately, the most important parts of this proposal are how the tables are formatted and the fact there are icons to begin with - I will remain open on what the icons should link to even after it closes / we see how readers feel when this is put into place and adjust if needed. I'm just not sure how to handle the item the page is about... idk if the item template would even work there, and I'd want it to be bold anyway, so I guess we can still use the normal file formatting there (as I said earlier, all that matters is if the result turns out the same; I just demonstrated the method I find simplest for this outline). Technetium (talk) 23:13, January 2, 2025 (EST)

If it were just the icon, that'd make sense. When the words are right there, having them link to the same place is arbitrary, annoying, and completely unnecessary. I don't even want to bother counting the amount of times I've clicked on a sprite for a PM item, hoping to go to that image's sprite, only to end up on its page because of that objectively poor design. Adding an extra step here is not the right option. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:59, January 5, 2025 (EST)

Simplify "wikitable dk"

canceled by proposer
This is proposing to slightly simplify the "wikitable dk" class into something that both maintains the elements of a wikitable (such as the gray border and blank background) while maintaining the Donkey Kong theme. Since the current one isn't the most comfortable to read (at least for me), I've thought of a middle ground that I think ultimately looks nicer and feels more consistent with the site design and wikitables in general, so if this proposal passes, the "wikitable dk" style would look like the following:

Image	Name	Amount
	Awk	16
	Frogoon	3
	Tiki Goon	4
	Screaming Pillar	4
	Rawk	3

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per

Oppose

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - The proposed "solution" to the alleged "issue" just looks ugly to me.
2. Nintendo101 (talk) I think the way they look now is serviceable enough as long as it remains easy to for other users to edit. It does the passive job of communicating to the reader that they are reading a Donkey Kong article. I'm not opposed to revisions though - maybe things can be further simplified - I just think the one recommended in this proposal is a little too simple though.
3. GuntherBayBeee (talk) I tell you what.
4. Lakituthequick (talk) While the existing table style is not winning any prizes, getting rid of colours is not something I support. In fact, if standardised to an extend, I would actually support a bit more colour, especially since the last table proposal.
5. Fun With Despair (talk) Honestly, I just think it looks fine as-is. Several professional spreadsheets such as schedules I have worked on also alternate the tones of their rows - it's just easier on the eyes.
6. Camwoodstock (talk) Alternating colors are a thing on many, many tables--usually, very large ones, like spreadsheets. While the current one is, admittedly, a tad gaudy, it's perfectly clear and readable.
7. Ray Trace (talk) Per all, especially Lakituthequick

Comments

why not use a brown heading with white text? — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 13:18, January 7, 2025 (EST)

@EvieMaybe Do you or @Doc von Schmeltwick have a suggestion which shade of brown can be used? I stated in the proposal that I'm open for suggestions of a better color to use. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:18, January 7, 2025 (EST)

I think it looks just fine as-is... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:20, January 7, 2025 (EST)

It's not the most accessible in my opinion, and it doesn't match the simple aesthetic of this website. It would also fall in line with the precedent set to use simpler table styles. This is the only style with that inconsistency. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:22, January 7, 2025 (EST)

@EvieMaybe Okay, so I think I found a shade of brown that works well while still actually making it look like an actual wikitable, so I've altered the wikitable style accordingly. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:24, January 7, 2025 (EST)

you sure about the colored rows? it doesn't really match the rest of the wiki's style. the darker brown on the top looks pretty good, though. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 18:27, January 7, 2025 (EST)

Nintendo101 said it looked a bit too simplified, so I added the colors myself. Do you have a different idea for row colors? Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:31, January 7, 2025 (EST)

@Nintendo101 Want to draft up something that would look less simplified so I can get an idea of what you're stating? Wait, I think I found something. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:12, January 7, 2025 (EST)

For what it's worth, I have been sitting on a proposal for more colourful table styles since the last Grand Table Proposal™, but still need to actually, like, write and post it. As I said in that one, I am not against getting rid of colour, that would only serve to make things more boring.
I do not actually know how things work when proposals with directly relating goals are posted at the same time, so I will refrain from posting mine until at least after this one settles. Lakituthequick 23:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll be honest, I was thinking of doing that as well, though I never really had a solid plan. My only idea was to tie it into a similar system on the wiki and use the same coloration guides as navboxes for tables. Ahemtoday (talk) 21:59, January 8, 2025 (EST)

Do not treat one-time Super Mario RPG names as recurring names

Do not treat these names as recurring names 16-1
This proposal is mainly aimed at Mini Goomba and Lava Bubble, though there may be others in this regard that I'm not aware of. Both of these enemies had names that were only used for the original version (Goombette and Sparky respectively) but we continue to use these names for the enemies for other appearances where no name is given for them until an appearance which they do e.g calling Lava Bubbles "Sparkies" in regards to Super Mario 64. Considering this is a game which had some questionable translations and the game's remake used properly translated names, I think we should only use these names in regards to the original Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and instead use whichever name had been used beforehand for later appearances.

Proposer: Nightwicked Bowser (talk)
Deadline: January 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on January 10, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support (Super Mario RPG names)

1. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per proposal
2. Waluigi Time (talk) We shouldn't be treating a one-off oddball localization job as earnest renames.
3. Sparks (talk) Per all.
4. Technetium (talk) Per all.
5. Hewer (talk) Yeah I always thought this was a bit dumb, this is definitely a case where a bit of discretion is necessary. Per all.
6. Jdtendo (talk) Per Sky Troopas, Spookums, and Shy Aways.
7. OmegaRuby RPG: Legend of the Dragon Balls (talk) Per all.
8. Pseudo (talk) Per all.
9. Blinker (talk) THANK YOU. I remember years ago reading the Super Mario 64 section on Lava Bubble and thinking that was an actual name they were called in that game. It doesn't help that history sections are often not completely in chronological order.
10. LeftyGreenMario (talk) It's quite a marvel to see how thorough of a negative impact these names have on the wiki.
11. EvieMaybe (talk) per WT
12. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per Neosquid.
13. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per Goby.
14. Camwood777: Legend Of Assuming You Signed Up Here Before (talk) Per proposal. This has always felt like kind of a weird case of WikiJank™, taking our "most recent name" policy and applying it highly literally, game-specific or spinoff series-specific nicknames be darned. We mean, what, are we supposed to call the Cheep Cheep in Mario Kart 64 "Pescatory Pete" because Tetris Attack released before it?
15. Ray Trace (talk) The moment I realized that this entire time a Super Mario 64 enemy was given a Super Mario RPG name literally left me speechless and I can't believe we actually practiced that. Glad to see a proposal clamp down on these instances.
16. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.

Nintendo101 RPG: Legend of the Silver Frogs (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose (Super Mario RPG names)

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) I feel a ditty coming on, about a few things from NoA in the 90's. Peeeeeeer... The Big Boo, Bub, spiny bomb, Piranha Flower, Whomp Block, Flying Goomba... Koopa Para Troopa, Para-Koopa, Winged/Flying Koopa Troopa... Flopsy Fish, Piscatory Pete, Beach Koopa, Swoop(er), Mini-Ninja, where's Needle's nose... Piro Dangle, Red Blargg, Shark Chomp, Green/Solo Toady, Wild Piranha... Mace Penguin, Gabon, Grand Goomba, Hootie is Not a Fish... Oh yeah, Chubby, weight (I'm a waiter?), Podoboo, Spark Spook...*wew*...Little Yoshi, Mini-Yoshi, Mini Yoshi, Submarine Nep-Enut, Blue Boo, Big Blue Boo... Little Goomba, (Para-)Goomba, a Pirhana Plant! Why's Froggy so froggy? And now that you've sang alooooooong, you know Square really did no wrooooooong♪

Comments (Super Mario RPG names)

There are a few instances in which recurring names are listed for other one-off games, like Spark Spooks from Yoshi's Story, if information serves correct. Perhaps the maintenance done if this proposal passes could be extended to instances from games other than Super Mario RPG? OmegaRuby [ Talk / Contribs ] 08:32, January 3, 2025 (EST)

I actually disagree with pointing fingers at the original game while NOA in general was still clearly figuring things out as they were going along (Lava Bubble isn't the greatest example since Podoboo lasted for quite a while). Maybe rephrase this as "names that were changed in the remake" because that's what this proposal is really targeting. I have a separate idea on how to handle unchanged one-offs like Yo'ster Isle that might conflict with another proposal I had in mind. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, the Yo'ster Isle example should already be dealt with by this proposal. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:12, January 3, 2025 (EST)

Actually, this has been on my mind even long before the remake came out so I won't be rephrasing the proposal. Nightwicked Bowser 15:08, January 3, 2025 (EST)

The remake is handing you something quantifiable to work with on a silver platter besides "translation bad." Why not? LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:12, January 3, 2025 (EST)

Because it's my proposal and I'll phrase it how I see it. Nightwicked Bowser 15:17, January 3, 2025 (EST)

You'd get the same overall effect but with a better precedent behind it is my point. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:24, January 3, 2025 (EST)

I don't see how the Podoboo -> Lava Bubble rename affects this in any meaningful way? Blinker (talk) 15:41, January 3, 2025 (EST)

Lava Bubble didn't appear in a manual or game yet, so by present rules, this passing would result in swapping Sparky with Podoboo in Super Mario 64 (released a mere 3~4 months apart) - one non-current name for another. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:47, January 3, 2025 (EST)

That is my exact intent here. Nightwicked Bowser 15:49, January 3, 2025 (EST)

This reminds me that my original idea was to use the term "Bubble" for Super Mario 64, given the peculiarities, albeit still covering it in the Lava Bubble article. That would just leave resized Goomba, as mentioned below. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:46, January 4, 2025 (EST)

"Lava Bubble" is employed in Mario Mania, and while I understand this is a lower-priority source since instruction booklets are physically packaged with the games, I do personally hold that at equal value since Mario Mania is a guidebook for Super Mario World written by Nintendo of America, who also translated and wrote the instruction booklet. (I don't know if NoA has ever felt inclined to specify this anywhere, but I wouldn't be surprised if the guidebook and instruction booklet even involve the same individual staff members.) I understand how it is intuitively confusing to see how an enemy called "Lava Bubble" in the Super Mario World section of its own article suddenly be called "Sparky" in the Super Mario 64 section (which, technically, it is not called anywhere at all in the English material for that game), only for it to be called "Lava Bubble" again in the next immediate section. So I understand the appeal.

This is tangential, but personally, I am not even really certain the "Lava Bubble" in Super Mario 64 is supposed to be the recurring enemy we see elsewhere since it looks like an ambient plume of fire, and we only refer to it as a "Lava Bubble" because the internal filename for this thing is "BUBBLE." I dunno if that literally means it is intended to be the same subject. If it really is the same subject, I know the Japanese name for Lethal Lava Land is ファイアバブル ランド (Faia Baburu Rando, Fire Bubble Land). Is the land named after the enemy? Because if that is the case, maybe it would be more accurate to refer to Lava Bubbles as "Lethal Lavas" in Super Mario 64-related portions of the wiki, not "Sparkies." - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:09, January 3, 2025 (EST)

Responding to your tangent, as mentioned in the Lava Bubble article, the enemy's design in 64 DS was reused in New Super Mario Bros., which further indicates that, at least in the remake, those are intended to be Lava Bubbles. Blinker (talk) 16:28, January 3, 2025 (EST)

If memory serves, there's no real name for the object designated as "BUBBLE" in any material (or at least, nothing jumped out to me). For whatever reason, it's harder to find than Keronpa Ball, having completely fallen by the wayside. Having said that, I think a reasonable conclusion has been drawn in the absence of anything better to go off on. Doc added the part about the course name, I think. But - since this proposal is mainly eyeing Lava Bubble and Mini Goomba - I should mention that Mini Goomba is another can of worms. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:36, January 3, 2025 (EST)

@Nintendo101 - Not until we start listing the Magikoopa species in SMRPG as "Merlins." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:22, January 5, 2025 (EST)

@Doc von Schmeltwick is that the same situation? "Lethal Lava Land" is the name of the level... in the game as it was released. The average player is shown this name. "Merlin" is just in the codes and not nakedly presented to the player. - Nintendo101 (talk) 12:49, January 6, 2025 (EST)

@Doc von Schmeltwick But it does mean more Turtle Cannon, per the proposed tradeoff. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:00, January 9, 2025 (EST)

@LinkTheLefty: I understand you're trying to make a reference but people who don't get it did find your vote a bit on the rude side so please keep that in mind next time you strongly disagree with a proposal, as per rule 4. Ray Trace^(T|C) 13:30, January 9, 2025 (EST)

To be clear, I was neutral up until I saw the "Per Goby/Troopa"-type votes, which I took as lighthearted joking in itself. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:00, January 9, 2025 (EST)

That's fine; for clarification, I'm not personally the one who found it rude, but at worst, the message you're trying to say is confusing especially in context of being a sole oppose vote, hence why it may look like that to others. I wasn't on the clear what you're trying to say until I read your edit summary. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:09, January 9, 2025 (EST)

There's also the fact that you're the only one who has cast an oppose vote so a straight reasoning would have been more ideal, especially for someone like me who had no idea what you were referencing. Nightwicked Bowser 19:40, January 9, 2025 (EST)

The very first comment - from a support voter - also questions the scope. I'm not that alone. I could agree with such a proposal if it better addressed the broader most-recent-name-for-unnamed-appearances issue rather than singled out one game for something that was ultimately misunderstood about it and instead was largely par for the course back then, as history shows. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:42, January 9, 2025 (EST)

@LinkTheLefty This proposal is about the use of one-time enemy names as recurring names, which is not the case of most of the examples you picked in your opposing vote; most of those names are only mentioned on the wiki in the game section they pertained to: “Boos (misnamed "Big Boo" in the English manual)”, “Bubs appear in Super Mario 64” (we don't use the name "Bub" in any other game section), “Spiny Eggs, referred to as "Spiny bombs"” (we don't say "Spiny bombs" elsewhere), and so on. In those cases, it's similar to the mention “Snifits, originally referred to as Spookums” in a SMRPG section, which will not be affected by this proposal. In other cases, the weird name is used as a recurring name on the wiki because it either was the actual official name at the time (Swoopers, Podoboos, SMW Goombas…) or the only known name at the time (Needle(nose)s, Hootie the Blue Fish…). The same cannot be said for SMRPG enemy names. Jdtendo^(T|C) 02:39, January 10, 2025 (EST)

The irony is that I mirrored what your own vote started, Jdtendo. So again, I ask: would there not be a more refined proposal that uses the remake as its definitive guideline (what I originally suggested) or by addressing the overall underlying then-most-recent-name-for-unnamed-appearance issue (what OmegaRuby and others seem to want)? And as I've made clear in these very comments, the two examples that the proposal touts already have their own share of problems, which won't be fixed. It's not the right message, in my opinion. LinkTheLefty (talk) 06:05, January 10, 2025 (EST)

What other cases are there besides Super Mario RPG of an unusual name specific to a particular game being used when talking about other games that didn't use the name? If there are any, then I agree we should probably change them. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 06:51, January 10, 2025 (EST)

I have noticed we're calling Big Boos "Atomic Boos" for Super Mario Galaxy. Anyway, I wasn't fully clear on other games which this applies to including the Yoshi's Story example that OmegaRuby said since it's a game I've never played. Super Mario RPG is the only one I was fully aware of that we've been doing this. This proposal will end tonight so it's too late to expand it, but sometime soon another proposal could be made to take similar measures with Spark Spook and Atomic Boo. Nightwicked Bowser 07:04, January 10, 2025 (EST)

Make a redirects "category" for the "What Links Here" pages

canceled by proposer
So, I was thinking "It's funny how Dixie was once referred to as "Daisy Kong". I wonder if that's for people who only know that name and search it.", then I thought "I wonder what other names Dixie has. Maybe in the "What Links Here" page there's a "category" for redirects." and lastly, I thought "No. I’ll see what other names Mario has!" . But, then, I went to the "What Links Here" page for Mario and looked for a redirects "category", but for my surprise, there ain’t one. So, I’m here to make people add one. What do you think?

Proposer:Weegie baby (talk)
Deadline: I don’t know how this "deadline" thing works…

Support

1. Weegie baby (talk) I support, as I made the proposal, and I am almost sure other people will.

Comments

Is this not what Special:WhatLinksHere does already? For instance, this is Mario's page as an example[1]. Additionally, deadlines are to be set 2 weeks after creation, unless there it accumulates a big majority, which then the proposal is set to finish in only a week. See Rule 2 ("Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT). " and Rule 8. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:24, January 11, 2025 (EST)

Oh, sorry. I’ll delete the proposal.

Organize "List of implied" articles

Both reorganize and deglobulize 10-1-0-0
Here's one of those "two related proposals in one with a YY-YN-NY-NN support scheme" proposals, concerning the following articles:

• List of implied characters
• List of implied entertainment
• List of implied events
• List of implied items
• List of implied locations
• List of implied organizations
• List of implied people
• List of implied species

Right now, each of these is sorted purely alphabetically, with no regards for where or when they were implied to exist. The closest thing to an attempt at organization is Locations dividing between fictional and real locations, which also happens to expose a flaw with this particular article: nearly all the implied locations are there simply because they're mentioned on the Globulator, with no other substance to their entry. All of these cities are already listed on the Globulator article anyways.

There are other changes I'd like to propose for some particular articles, but for now, let's leave it at these two:

• Reorganize: Sort each article chronologically like your average History section, divided by series and then by game. This should help lump, say, all the Marvelous Compass locations in one place, or all the celebrities namedropped in the Super Show.
• Deglobulize: Remove all real world locations from List of implied locations that are there exclusively because they're mentioned in the Globulator. This would exclude entries like Brazil, who have more to discuss than merely being acknowledged. I consider Locations the article on this list that needs the most trimming, so if this half of the proposal doesn't pass, I won't bother making follow-up articles for trimming the rest.

Proposer: EvieMaybe (talk)
Deadline: January 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on January 12, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Both reorganize and deglobulize

1. EvieMaybe (talk) primary choice.
2. LadySophie17 (talk) Seems reasonable. I never liked how confusing these pages are.
3. Blinker (talk) Per proposal.
4. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
5. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per proposal.
6. Technetium (talk) Hmm what's the Globulator? *checks page* Oh. Oh god. Yeah that's a per proposal if I've ever seen one.
7. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer and Technetium.
8. Camwoodstock (talk) Yipe. We knew the Globulator was causing issues, but we didn't expect them to be... That. And, of course, re-orgnaizing the remainder is fine.
9. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
10. OmegaRuby (talk) Per proposal.

Only reorganize

1. EvieMaybe (talk) secondary choice.

List of implied comments

If deglobulize wins, I think a disclaimer should be added to the list of implied locations (either at the top of the article or the top of the "Real locations" section) explaining that the Globulator doesn't count. Also, if reorganize wins, does the location list keep its "Super Mario franchise locations" and "Real locations" sections? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:05, January 5, 2025 (EST)

that first one is a good idea, def should be implemented. i want to say yes for the second one, but i think it depends on what the article ends up looking like when reorganized. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 16:08, January 5, 2025 (EST)

Create a template documentation template and split the remaining templates into their respective /doc subpages

canceled by proposer
This proposal revolves around a possibility to create a {{documentation}} template. Every template on the Super Mario Wiki lacks a documentation template, so I've come up with an example of what the new {{documentation}} will look like:

<includeonly>{{br}}
----
<div style="background: #C00; border: 3px solid #000">
<div style="background: #F43; text-align: center;">
<div style="font-size: 150%; text-align: center; line-height: 100%; padding: 5px;">'''Template documentation'''</div>
{{#if: {{{abandoned|}}} | <div style="padding: 5px;">{{abandoned}}</div> |}}
<div style="padding: 5px; text-align: center;">Click [[{{{1|{{FULLPAGENAME}}/doc}}}|here]] to view this documentation or {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}/doc|action=edit}}|there}} to edit it. ([[Template:Documentation|About template documentation]]){{#if: {{{styles|}}} |<br />This template uses TemplateStyles: {{{styles}}}.}}</div>
<div style="padding: 5px; text-align: center;">''Please note that portions of the template sample may only be visible with values provided.''</div>
</div>
<div style="background: #FFF; border: 1px solid #FFF;"></div>
<div style="background: bisque; padding: 10px">
{{:{{{1|{{FULLPAGENAME}}/doc}}}}}
{{br}}
</div>
</div></includeonly>

Template documentation

Click here to view this documentation or there to edit it. (About template documentation)

Please note that portions of the template sample may only be visible with values provided.

This template is not only inspired by the {{documentation}} template on Bulbapedia, but also used on template pages to contain documentation, instructions and information about how to use the template.

Templates are a powerful tool and scrutinizes the display of lots of information in a consistent and manageable way; they may be confusing to new users, however, and experienced users may also have difficulty making sense of the more complex ones. Furthermore, templates must be accompanied by documentation to improve usability, and to encourage others to experiment with templates and use them to their maximum potential.

What to include

---

A template's documentation must include a brief summary of what the template is for, and where it is intended to be used. This must be followed by a breakdown of any parameters and what values they accept. Lastly, there must be at least one example of the template in use.

Usage

---

To include {{documentation}} on a template page, place it at the bottom of the template page, directly after the last line of code, between <noinclude>...</noinclude> tags:

<last line of a template's code><noinclude>
{{documentation}}
</noinclude>

The documentation can then be added to the /doc subpage of the template. Take this documentation for {{Documentation}} for example; it is located at Template:Documentation/doc.

Optionally, if the location of the appropriate documentation is located somewhere else, that documentation can be added to the documentation template as an optional parameter:

<last line of a template's code><noinclude>
{{documentation|Template:A/list}}
</noinclude>

TemplateStyles

For templates that use TemplateStyles, link to the style's sheet by adding |styles=[[<link>]]:

<last line of a template's code><noinclude>
{{documentation|styles=[[Template:SMBSS episode infobox/styles.css]]}}
</noinclude>

Archived templates

For templates that are no longer used, set the abandoned to yes to include the {{abandoned}} template as well:

<last line of a template's code><noinclude>
{{documentation|abandoned=yes}}
</noinclude>

This template resembles the documentation template on Bulbapedia, abiet with specific changes. For example, the color here is replaced by #C00 and #F43 for the outer background color and the header background color respectively, and the #FFF color for a template's documentation is replaced by the bisque color. To match the coding of the last proposal, the <big>'''<text>'''</big> ---- text coding represents the ==<text>== text coding and the ;<text> text coding represents the ===<text>=== text coding.

Once this proposal passes, we'll be able to split every template into their documentation.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: January 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Create the template

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) I see no harm in having this. It reminds me of Wikipedia.

Oppose: Leave nonexistent

1. Camwoodstock (talk) We don't really see the need for a template to automate the documentation that a well-written noinclude tag could already provide just fine. It would be one thing to simply standardize the documentation of templates as a whole, but we don't see why we need to create an entire new template, for other templates, in order to do that; especially since template documentation is pretty decent at the moment, and what issues we do have with it are moreso about templates that presently lack any documentation at all--not documentation being particularly inconsistent.
2. Ahemtoday (talk) There's no compelling reason to have the documentation for a template on a separate page from the template, especially not if we're going to use a template to put it back on the page anyway.
3. Waluigi Time (talk) This doesn't do anything we can't already accomplish normally, and I'm not compelled to support when the proposer doesn't even know how this would be beneficial.

Comments ({{/doc}})

The folks at Bulbapedia do good work, but it cursorily at least seems that what they use their documentation template for we already support on our own template documents. Template:Cite, for example, already outlines how the template is to be used. What would improve with the use of this template instead? - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:25, January 14, 2025 (EST)

I don't know what would improve with the use of this template, so I'm gonna need some help improving my proposal. Do you have any suggestions? Just either send me an example of improvement on my talk page or ask someone else send the example to me, and I would appreciate it. GuntherBayBeee 17:02, January 14, 2025 (EST)

There is no harm in having ideas and trying gauge how others feel about them. (I wish we had better platforms for doing that as a collective.) However, for proposals, if you cannot think of reasons why the change you are recommending should be integrated, you should not raise a proposal in the first place. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:10, January 14, 2025 (EST)

A couple proposals ago, I've been wondering why GuntherBayBeee has been proposing for a lot of new templates or for changes to older template (since I have noticed he's made... a lot of template-related proposals). If he himself doesn't even know why (or how it would improve the wiki), and just makes these proposals for the sake of more templates (and template changes)... that's a bit of a problem. 😬
(Now to be fair, maybe this issue only applies to this particular proposal, but still, yikes) rend (talk) (edits) 18:01, January 14, 2025 (EST)

Hey hey hey, why are you trying to turn me into a template? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:58, January 14, 2025 (EST)

You misunderstand, only the template subpages that make use of {{documentation}} will be named after you. rend (talk) (edits) 18:04, January 14, 2025 (EST)

Forgive me if this is a bit harsh but, I get the feeling you don't put a lot of thought into the idea of some of your template proposals. Before even starting it, you should have thought out how this would benefit the wiki and how you would go about implementing it if it passes, not bring up the idea via a proposal then ask others how this would work. In cases like these, you should find a suitable talk page and bring up the idea there as a normal discussion before going straight to a proposal. Nightwicked Bowser 19:44, January 14, 2025 (EST)

Delete Alternative Proto Piranha Images

Delete 8-2
This concerns these two image files, which are as of present unused.

The main argument is that not only are these two images taken using a hacked version of the game, but that they aren't actually even intended in the first place; while we don't know much about how Sunshine works under the hood, the leading theory is that the object for the Proto Piranha simply borrows the texture of whatever Goop is currently loaded. Given the resulting Proto Piranha inherits no other attributes of the goop aside from visuals, this definitely tracks. In addition, attempts to add these to TCRF were removed not once, but twice. Given these images have been languishing for a long while with no real use, it seems more-or-less fine to remove them to us.

Proposer: Camwoodstock (talk)
Deadline: January 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Delete

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Given the lack of any glitches to even spawn a Proto Piranha in these areas, the dubious origin of the images themselves, and the fact that calling them "unused content" is a bit of a misnomer, we don't see any particular reason to keep these around--even the "the goop reflects the area it's loaded in" is already thoroughly demonstrated thanks to the images of the Proto Piranha as it already appears, in vanilla, in Delfino Airstrip and both Bianco Square and Bianco Hills. This, to us, would be like listing the thing where if you hack a Yoshi into a Castle stage in Super Mario World its head becomes a Lava Bubble as "unused content" for that game.
2. Tails777 (talk) I'm leaning towards this. I feel this would be different if there was a video showcasing what happens when you insert a Proto Piranha in a place it otherwise doesn't spawn in, mostly because it's not uncommon for us to cover possibilities only possible through hacks. If we had a bit more to back it all up, that's be fine, but images without anything else doesn't really prove a lot. At best, this is like a small trivia point for Proto Piranhas, not unused content. They still look cool though..
3. Jdtendo (talk) If it was not intended, then it is not unused content.
4. Ray Trace (talk) The only thing that really kept me from nuking these images outright is because of lack of info and I'm glad that's cleared up in this proposal. Kill these.
5. Technetium (talk) Here Ray Trace, you can borrow my FLUDD. Per all.
6. Sparks (talk) Wash 'em away!
7. ThePowerPlayer (talk) I'm inclined to claim that this is in fact unused content, just that it's not notable enough to warrant using images from a hacked version of the game. A small, text-based note in the article and using images from the unhacked vanilla game works fine.
8. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.

Keep

1. Fun With Despair (talk) To be honest, I do think these images (or at least one of them) have value in something like the Trivia section, illustrating how the enemy is coded to appear as the type of goop present in the level - including goop not normally present alongside them. It's an interesting fact, and I think rather than being labeled unused content, both that fact and one of these images would make a fun Trivia addition.
2. Cadrega86 (talk) Per Fun with Despair, I think there's no harm in including these as trivia, as long as it's clear it's just a side effect of how gloop/Piranha Plants work and not necessarily an intended unused feature.

Comments (delete alternative proto piranha images)

i can see a case for keeping them around to illustrate how proto piranha's goo change isn't hardcoded, but i agree with the idea that a video might be better. i'll abstain for now. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 09:57, January 4, 2025 (EST)

Normalise splitting long References to/in other media sections

Do not normalize 1-6
Last year, I successfully proposed that the References to other media section on The Super Mario Bros. Movie article should be split into its own article due to its length, with the same later occurring for the References in later games section on Super Mario Bros. On the TPP for splitting the latter section, the user EvieMaybe supported saying "i wonder what'll be the next game to require this". That got me to realise that other articles with these sections are of similar length, and suffer the same problems that I originally pointed out in those past proposals. Select examples that I've been able to find include the following:

• Super Mario Bros. 2 (references in later media)
• Super Mario Bros. 3 (references in later media)
• Super Mario World (references in later games)
• Super Mario Odyssey (references to)
• Super Mario Bros. Wonder (references to)

Again, these are just examples. There's probably more out there that are equally as long. If this proposal were to achieve support, there would have to be some sort of guideline (similar to splitting galleries) relating to a certain limit at which the section is split, possibly a maximum of 20-30 bullet points or certain number of bytes before splitting, as the sections I've cited as examples go over said amount of bullet points. Normalising this would also prevent anyone from having to make separate TPPs to suggest splitting each and every long section separately, and would also help create some consistency, as it doesn't make much sense for only a few select references to/in other media sections to be split rather than more.

Proposer: RetroNintendo2008 (talk)
Deadline: January 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. RetroNintendo2008 (talk) Per all.

EvieMaybe (talk) look ma, i'm on tv! yeah, this seems like a very reasonable thing to do

Oppose

1. Waluigi Time (talk) I support in principle, but I'm against the proposed implementation here. We already have MarioWiki:Article size for determining what to do when pages get too long, so what I would like to see is simply considering references sections as things that can get split off when that happens. Of the pages linked in this proposal, SMB2 and 3 don't even meet the minimum byte count for a split (SMB2 falls especially short at ~85k bytes). SMB didn't meet those criteria before the proposal either and I think that should be reversed. These lists aren't that long all things considered and they're kept pretty low on the page so I don't think their presence is necessarily intrusive.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Waluigi Time; we already have policies for this, and we see no need to carve out any exceptions for the references section just yet.
3. Nintendo101 (talk) Per Waluigi Time. A good idea in principal, but only if warranted on a case-by-case basis. I generally do not like splitting up pages unless necessary.
4. EvieMaybe (talk) per Waluigi Time, i hadn't considered that. i hope that if this proposal ends with Oppose bc of everyone backing WT, we still remember that we can split reference sections to trim article size
5. Technetium (talk) Per Waluigi Time.
6. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per Waluigi Time. Definitely split the articles when necessary, though I agree that it makes sense to follow the standards already set in place rather than making a new criteria solely for reference sections.

Create a feature that archives links/references within an article

vetoed by the administrators
Impossible to implement and beyond the scope of this wiki
There are times when a link added as one of your references in an article "dies". That happened to one of the links I used as a reference in the Baby Fat article when I first wrote it. I had to spend several hours finding a new link that had the same image of the rare trading card and use that as the reference instead. I'm not the only one this has happened to and it happens a lot with Twitter links especially when someone deletes their content or account or it gets taken down, etc. So having a feature that automatically archives links used as references (like having porplebot archive them somehow) would be quite nice. Maybe we could create an archive on the wiki for links used as references and then porplebot could automatically archive them there or something. Idk how it'd actually work but it would be a very helpful feature that I think everyone would like.

Proposer: Pizza Master (talk)
Deadline: February 3, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Pizza Master (talk) Per.

Oppose

1. Technetium (talk) This isn't possible. Archived links come from the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.
2. Nintendo101 (talk) I don't think this is something that is possible within the parameters of our site. I recommend editors search for broken URLs on the Internet Archives instead. If they show up on the Wayback Machine, replace the URLs with the archived link provided there. This is an expected diligence of editors, and a deeply appreciated one at that.
3. Sparks (talk) Per all.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per the fact this is technically impossible.