MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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{{MarioWiki:Proposals/Header}}
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==Writing guidelines==
''None at the moment.''
 
==New features==
''None at the moment.''
 
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''
 
==Changes==
===Include italics for category page titles for media that normally uses it===
Shouldn't category pages for media that uses italics (such as games, shows, movies, etc.) use italics for their category pages? I did start adding it to some pages already, but I thought it was worth proposing about it, possibly to make it policy. I feel like italics should be used though, as it is used everywhere else. For example, the page titled [[:Category:Donkey Kong 64]] should be [[:Category:Donkey Kong 64|Category:''Donkey Kong 64'']].
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Kaptain Skurvy}}<br>'''Deadline''': February 20, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support====
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Wait, this isn't already policy??? We think this lack of parity speaks a lot to how neglected categories can be in some regards. While yes, the category description isn't really meant to be the main point, we don't think ''slightly slanted text'' is distracting from the actual list of articles in the category, and just because categories are more utility than text doesn't excuse the text that ''is'' there looking below the standard of a usual article for being "lesser".
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Nothing wrong with having more consistency around the wiki.
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per all.
#{{User|Salmancer}} It is easier to figure out what the standards are from context alone when the standards are applied in every instance.
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Categories are supposed to provide simple, direct, and utilitarian functions, not something to be read or presented to readers. I don't think italicizing them is necessary and would detract from their simplicity.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per Nintendo101. It doesn't feel necessary.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} What is this supposed to change, exactly? Yes, it's in line with how pages about games are to have the subject italicized, but the change feels unneeded and especially arduous to implement for pretty much no reason. Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Nintendo101
 
====Comments====
@Nintendo101: In that case, why do we italicise game titles in category descriptions? (Genuine question, I'm undecided on this proposal.) {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:58, February 7, 2025 (EST)
:Because that is a proper sentence. It is not the tool itself. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:15, February 7, 2025 (EST)
::We mean... Wiki policy is to italicize game titles on their articles' names using <nowiki>{{Italic title}}</nowiki>, too, and those aren't proper sentences. They're article names. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 19:00, February 8, 2025 (EST)
:::That's not the same situation in my eyes because the articles are what the site is for. That is what we are writing and presenting to the public. Of course we would italicize those. The categories are a tool, chiefly for site editors, not readers. We do not really gain anything from italicizing their titles. If anything, I worry this would lead to a lot of work to implement, either burdening site editors, porplemontage, or both. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:05, February 9, 2025 (EST)
::::So category names are just tools not meant for readers, but category descriptions aren't? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:08, February 9, 2025 (EST)
:::::The descriptions are just sentences, and I feel inclined to render those they way we would a sentence anywhere else on the site, be it on articles or in the description for image files. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:49, February 9, 2025 (EST)
::::We disagree with the notion categories are more for editors and not readers; while yes, all of the categories on the front page are maintenance categories from the to-do list, the sheer quantity of proposals for categories wouldn't make sense if they were moreso for editors, rather than your average reader; moves such as the reforms for the Look-alikes categories or the Thieves category wouldn't make sense if these weren't meant to be public-facing. And of course, there are the various categories that exist for users, but do ''not'' serve a utility purpose, such as the [[:Category:User es|various "users that know a given language" categories]].<br>As for difficulty implementing, considering the recent success stories with images without descriptions and categories without descriptions having gone from 4000+ and ≈100, to 0 and 0 respectively, we have it in good faith that this wouldn't be ''that'' hard to implement. Monotonous? Yes. But difficult? It's nothing a bit of caffeine and music can't solve. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 18:22, February 9, 2025 (EST)
:::::Not only for editors, but chiefly for them. I don't exclude the idea of more curious readers utilizing them, but I suspect they are exceptions. I maintain that their ease of implementation is more important to the site than the formatting inconsistency. Like, are we to be expected to format category ourselves as "<nowiki>[[Category:Super Mario World screenshots|Category:''Super Mario World'' screenshots]]</nowiki>" instead of just "<nowiki>[[Category:Super Mario World screenshots]]</nowiki>" going forward? Would we do this for the articles that are in dozens of categories? Why? I would not want to do that, and I don't find the inconsistency a good enough reason to roll something like that out, and only brings downsides. It makes the tool where one types "<nowiki>[[Category:</nowiki>" almost entirely moot because we would still need to write out the whole name just to format it this way. Others are welcomed to think differently, but I personally think the way we format these names now in categories is perfectly fine. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:49, February 9, 2025 (EST)
even if this proposal doesn't pass, i think we should use [[Template:Italic title]] in the category pages. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 10:16, February 12, 2025 (EST)
:I thought that was the whole proposal. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:32, February 13, 2025 (EST)
 
===Split the image quality category===
'''Issue 1:''' [[:Category:Images to be reuploaded with higher quality]] is a very big category, with nearly 4,000 images in it right now. Even if it's something you can help with, it's very difficult to actually find anything in here. '''Issue 2:''' All other things being equal, some types of images require specific methods or skills to get that all users may not have or be comfortable with. To aid in the overall usability of this category and make it easier for skilled users to find things they can help with, I'm proposing the following two subcategories:
*'''Screenshots to be uploaded with higher quality''' - Most Nintendo consoles don't have the ability to take native screenshots. That's all I'll say about that.
*'''Assets to be uploaded with higher quality''' - Sites like The Spriters Resource are helpful, but they don't have everything. Getting higher quality images requires being able to extract them from the game files and/or the ability to manipulate them afterwards. This will also include images that are currently screenshots meant to demonstrate an asset, such as [[:File:DKCTF Donkey Icon.png]].
Additionally, [[Template:Image-quality]] will be modified with an extra parameter to mark the image as a screenshot or asset and categorize them appropriately. Considering we already have the rewrite and stub categories organized for better navigation, I don't see this as an issue.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 20, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Split both====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Category:Votes to be reuploaded with a better reason
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We're a little surprised a split like this hasn't happened sooner, honestly; if for no other reason than it would be nice to have it organized. Per proposal.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per all, which is mostly "per proposal"s anyway
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} makes perfect sense
 
====Only split screenshots====


===List of talk page proposals===
====Only split assets====
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Lightning (move)]] with [[Lightning]]|Talk:Lightning#Minion Quest: The Search for Bowser: What to do with it.|January 12, 2018, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Delete [[Monita]]|Talk:Monita#Delete this page|January 19, 2018, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Decide what to do with the tables on the ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'' page|Talk:Super Mario 3D World#Decide what to do with the tables|January 19, 2018 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Determine ''Tetris'' for the Game Boy's place in the ''Mario'' franchise|Talk:List_of_Mario_references_in_Nintendo_video_games#What_is_Tetris_for_the_Game_Boy.3F|January 21, 2018 23:59 GMT}}


==Proposals that have not been implemented==
====Leave image quality alone====
{| class=sortable align=center width=100% cellspacing=0 border=1 cellpadding=3 style="text-align:center; border-collapse:collapse; font-family:Arial;"
|-
!width="3%"|#
!width="65%"|Proposal
!width="18%"|User
!width="14%"|Date
|-
|1
|align=left|[[Talk:Scuttlebug#Split_Spoing.2C_Sprangler_and_Klamber_from_Scuttle_Bug|Split Spoing, Sprangler and Klamber from Scuttle Bug]]
|{{User|Vommack}}
|November 3, 2012
|-
|2
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 41#Create separate articles for DKC series and DKL series boss levels|Create boss level articles for ''Donkey Kong Country'' and ''Donkey Kong Land'' series]]
|{{User|Aokage}}
|January 3, 2015
|-
|3
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 45#Create a template for the TTYD badge drop rates|Create a template for the ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' badge drop rates]]
|{{User|Lord Bowser}}
|August 17, 2016
|-
|4
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 45#Create "Mini" article|Create a Mini article]]
|{{User|Wildgoosespeeder}}
|August 20, 2016
|-
|5
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 46#Split all remaining courts/boards based on recurring places from their parent articles|Split all remaining courts and boards from their parent articles]]
|{{User|NSY}}
|September 25, 2016
|-
|6
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 47#Do_Something_With_Game-Specific_Species_Categories|Clean up species categories to only include non-hostile species]]
|{{User|Niiue}}
|August 8, 2017
|-
|7
|align=left|[[Category talk:Artifacts#Do something with this category|Clean up Category:Artifacts]]
|{{User|Niiue}}
|August 22, 2017
|-
|8
|align=left|[[Category talk:Ice Creatures#Do something about this category|Trim down Category:Fire Creatures and Category:Ice Creatures]]
|{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}
|September 7, 2017
|-
|9
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 48#Arcade Archives page|Create an article on ''Arcade Archives'']]
|{{User|Camwood777}}
|September 23, 2017
|-
|10
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 48#Split all Starbeans Cafe items from the Starbeans Cafe article|Split all Starbeans Cafe items from the Starbeans Cafe article]]
|{{User|Baby Luigi}}
|September 30, 2017
|-
|11
|align=left|[[Talk:Mario Party: Island Tour#Reorganize the board table in Mario Party: Island Tour|Reorganize the board table in ''Mario Party: Island Tour'']]
|{{User|Baby Luigi}}
|December 15, 2017
|-
|12
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_49#Changing_and_Adding_to_the_Switch_Buttons|Give the Nintendo Switch buttons in Template:Button better color resolution]]
|{{User|Eldritchdraaks}}
|December 18, 2017
|-
|13
|align=left|[[Talk:Behemoth#Merge_Behemoth_King_to_Behemoth_or_expand_Behemoth_King_article|Expand the Behemoth King article]]
|{{User|Owencrazyboy9}}
|December 23, 2017
|-
|14
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 50#The Secret Courses of Remix 10 in Super Mario Run|Create articles on the Remix 10 secret courses in Super Mario Run]]
|{{User|Time Turner}}
|December 26, 2017
|-
|15
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 50#Add anchor links to Power Moon lists|Add anchor links to Power Moon lists]]
|{{User|Super Radio}}
|December 31, 2017
|-
|16
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 50#The format of the statistics in the main pages of ''Mario Kart 7'', ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''|Use points to show the statistics in the main pages of ''Mario Kart 7'', ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'']]
|{{User|Mister Wu}}
|January 2, 2018
|}


==Writing guidelines==
====Comments on image quality proposal====
''None at the moment.''
Silly question; will images that are of neither screenshots nor assets that have the image-quality tag, like scans, character art/renders, or merchandise, just remain as-is? There are already a few examples of those that are all presently tagged with image-quality, like so:
<gallery>
File:Mk64mario.png|Scan of 3D render, colors are washed out.
File:BIS Fawflopper Prima.png|Muddy scan of 2D illustration, and background cropped.
File:Mariocrouch2Dshade.png|Photoshop upscaled 2D promo art.
File:BulletBillTSHIRT.jpg|Too small image of merchandise.
</gallery>{{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 15:30, February 6, 2025 (EST)
:Yes, anything that doesn't fall into either of the two subcategories will stay in the main one for now. I suppose we can look into splitting it further down the road, but I singled these two out because of the higher barrier to entry and also that they seem to be the bulk of the category's contents right now. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 15:37, February 6, 2025 (EST)
::I think this category should also be split by the media that it appears in (e.g: {{fake link|Category:Game screenshots to be reuploaded with higher quality}}. Something similar should also be done for the [[:Category:Articles with unsourced foreign names|Articles with unsourced foreign names category]]. [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 19:50, February 6, 2025 (EST)
:::Almost all of the screenshots in the category right now are from games so I don't think it needs to be narrowed down further just yet. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 20:09, February 6, 2025 (EST)


==New features==
===Change "(game)" identifier to "(arcade)" on the articles of ''[[Donkey Kong (game)|Donkey Kong]]'', ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'' and ''[[Mario Bros. (game)|Mario Bros.]]''===
===Create a page for ''Luigi's Mansion'' (series)===
I wouldn't consider "game" to be the best identifier for the arcade games ''Donkey Kong'', ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' and ''Mario Bros''. There's already a [[Donkey Kong (Game & Watch)|Game]] [[Donkey Kong Jr. (Game & Watch)|and]] [[Mario Bros. (Game & Watch)|Watch]] game that shares its title with each of the arcade games, but "''Donkey Kong''" is the name of various other games too! There's [[Donkey Kong (tabletop arcade game)|the tabletop game]], [[Donkey Kong (Game Boy)|the Game Boy game]], [[Donkey Kong (Nelsonic Game Watch)|the Nelsonic Game Watch game]] and [[Donkey Kong (slot machine)|the slot machine]]. I know the slot machine is technically an arcade game, but it's not a standard cabinet like the 1981 arcade game. "Game" is a broad identifier, especially for ''Donkey Kong''. Shouldn't a "game" identifier only be used if there's no other game with the same name? That's why we use consoles for identifiers instead, such as [[Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii)|''Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games'' (Wii)]] and [[Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Nintendo DS)|''Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games'' (Nintendo DS)]].
I am honestly surprised that this page does not exist, as I believe it once did. In short, there are three installments to this series: ''[[Luigi's Mansion]]'', ''[[Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon]]'', and ''[[Luigi's Mansion Arcade]]''. Though it might seem to some that only three games won't be enough to warrant a series page, keep in mind the [[DK (series)|''DK'' series'']] and the [[Mario Baseball (series)|''Mario Baseball'' series]] pages. There is plenty of information for this page, as we have a main protagonist (Luigi) and many other supporting characters and reoccurring enemies such as [[King Boo]] and [[Boo]]s. It only seems logical to create a page for a series within the [[Mario (franchise)|''Mario'' franchise]] that features two games for consoles and one arcade game.


'''Proposer''': {{User|DKPetey99}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Kaptain Skurvy}}<br>'''Deadline''': February 22, 2025, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': January 9, 2018 23:59 GMT


====Support====  
====Support====
#{{User|DKPetey99}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per proposal.
#{{user|Astro-Lanceur}} Good Idea! :P
#{{User|Alex95}} - A series page did exist before, but it was deleted back in 2011. That was before the arcade title, however, so I don't see a reason to not make one now.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per proposal.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. Since other similar series pages exist, I don't see an issue with creating this one.
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} OH YEAH! I KNEW this was supposed to be a thing. As a person whose favorite video-game character is the man in green, Mr. Number Two, I think this proposal is just great. After all, don't we hear people talk about the ''Luigi's Mansion'' games as a series? I think we're on a roll, boys. Per proposal. This thing should have been created when ''Dark Moon'' was released.
#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per all.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} If we have articles on [[Mario Strikers (series)|series]] with only [[Super Mario Strikers|two]] [[Mario Strikers Charged|games]], then clearly this subject merits an article. Per all.
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per all. It may seem strange to have an article on a two-game series. However, this one has [[Luigi's Mansion Arcade|three]].
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|MegaYarnPoochy}} Per all. It'd be weird pre-Arcade game, but three seems enough that the article could be useful.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} There's an article for [[DK (series)]], which only consists of two games, so having one for a three game series seems more than logical. Per all.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Those articles also cover the game's release on Famicom, NES, Atari, etc., so "arcade" would not be a holistically accurate identifier.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Nintendo101; "arcade" is kind of a misnomer when the non-arcade ports are covered on them.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|PaperSplash}} Per ThePowerPlayer's comment.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all
====Comments====
Maybe "arcade game" would be a decent compromise? [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 18:02, February 8, 2025 (EST)
What about [[Dr. Mario (game)|''Dr. Mario'']]? That game also has a [[Dr. Mario (Gamewatch Boy)|separate release also called ''Dr. Mario'']].--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 18:24, February 8, 2025 (EST)
::The reason why the games ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Dr. Mario'' should keep their identifier of "(game)" is because those are by far the most popular and commonly thought-of games under their respective titles; the other articles (aside from ''Donkey Kong'' on the Game Boy) are on much more obscure devices while being clearly separate from the original game. To put it another way, "''Dr. Mario'' (game)" is what people are looking for when they think about "the game featuring Dr. Mario"; meanwhile, you'd be forgiven for not knowing that the Gamewatch Boy game even exists at all. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 22:15, February 8, 2025 (EST)
what about Donkey Kong (1981)? {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 18:39, February 9, 2025 (EST)
:That would work for ''Donkey Kong'', but the original ''Mario Bros.'' and the arcade game of the same title were both released in 1983. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 12:49, February 12, 2025 (EST)
===Standardize the use of "English", "English (United States)" and/or "English (United Kingdom)" as languages in game infoboxes===
So far, the use of "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" as language identifiers in game infoboxes on this wiki has been rather inconsistent and arbitrary, to say the least. While Nintendo is typically known for providing distinct English localizations for the United States (and other English-speaking territories in the Americas) and the United Kingdom (and other territories where Commonwealth English is standard, apart from Canada), the actual differences between them, if any, have varied over time.
Historically, many Nintendo games have featured minor English text differences between their releases in the Americas and Europe/Oceania; however, these were typically not wholly separate localizations to account for the differences between American and British (or Commonwealth) English – they tended to follow American English conventions for the most part regardless. Rather, they were simple amendments made by Nintendo of Europe to Nintendo of America's existing English scripts, usually either to rectify perceived shortcomings or to modify certain terminology based on internal preferences. These versions were typically stored separately on region-specific cartridges or discs, with occasional differences in how they were labeled in internal data.
Later, during the DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U eras, more distinct localizations specifically for the United States and United Kingdom that also accounted for regional language differences became more commonplace. However, all of the aforementioned practices have largely faded with the advent of the region-free Nintendo Switch, where games now typically release simultaneously worldwide on identical cartridges. As a result, English scripts are now more often than not also identical across regions (or at most contain only very minor differences, such as the date format used; in many cases, the date format is the ''only'' difference), though they are still almost always stored and labeled separately in internal data, typically alongside each other.
This proposal aims to determine how we should handle cases of identical or nearly identical (American) English scripts between regions when identifying languages in game infoboxes. Should we list them both as "English (United States)", simply as "English" or adhere to how they are distinguished in internal data, even when actual differences are minimal?
'''Proposer''': {{User|PaperSplash}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 23, 2025, 23:59 GMT
====Option 1: List largely identical American English localizations only as "English (United States)"====
#{{User|PaperSplash}} My third choice. I mean, when it really is just American English, I can see the argument.
====Option 2: List largely identical American English localizations as simply "English"====
#{{User|PaperSplash}} My first choice. I think it's the best compromise that makes the most sense, all things considered.
#{{User|Hewer}} I feel like this way is the most straightforward and accurate.
#{{User|CarlosYoshiBoi}} I mean, if it’s just the same thing and no changes (assuming it doesn’t include dates for save files), then I guess this one makes the most sense.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Primary option. It's the simplest, it seems reasonable enough, and is applicable across the board; while it isn't exactly in-line with how Nintendo is handling things as of the Switch era, it's reasonable ''enough'' and can easily account for pre-Switch cases very well.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per all. Especially if that means that we will stop using "English (United States)" for games that use a variety of English that is not specifically American and weren't even released in America such as ''[[Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels|SMBTLL]]'' or ''[[Mario & Wario]]''.
====Option 3: List both "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" if distinguished in internal data, otherwise simply list "English"====
#{{User|PaperSplash}} My second choice. When internal data classifies them that way, it ''could'' make sense to follow suit...
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Secondary choice, as this seems to be Nintendo's official methodology as of the Switch; however, this ''exact'' rationale doesn't account for situations like, say, [[Mario Party 8]] and its infamous recall in the UK, which predates Nintendo's official distinguishing of NA English and UK English from the Switch era, leaving us at a bit of a loss for how to handle it exactly.
#{{User|CarlosYoshiBoi}} This option could also work if date formatting is different despite the game itself using the same script for the US and UK/Australia, like Mario & Luigi: Brothership.
====Option 4: Do nothing====
#{{User|CarlosYoshiBoi}} I’m actually surprised no one put anything in this option kind of like the title mentions “Do nothing.”
====Comments====
====Comments====
Is there a policy page/section about what qualifies as a series and allow for a series article? --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 15:00, 2 January 2018 (EST)
For better accuracy, "British English" should probably be "Commonwealth English." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:13, February 8, 2025 (EST)
:Not finding one, but I think the unspoken rule is about three games? I remember reading that ''somewhere''. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:13, 2 January 2018 (EST)
::Thought there would be so that way proposals don't need to be created. Would the admins be in favor of a policy to bypass the need for a proposal? I wouldn't know how to define the prerequisites. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 17:38, 2 January 2018 (EST)
:::This page was previously deleted, so I understand the need for this proposal. But, imo, a policy for it doesn't seem necessary. As long as there is more than one game in the same series and a decent amount of information can be written, then proposals shouldn't be necessary either. Something can probably be added to [[MarioWiki:Glossary]] though. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 17:50, 2 January 2018 (EST)
::::Just thought of something else. Series vs. Franchise. We got both those types of pages that are similar-ish in concept. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:24, 2 January 2018 (EST)
2011 was even before ''Dark Moon'' was released so I see why the original page was deleted. {{User:DKPetey99/sig}}
:Whoop, forgot when ''Dark Moon'' was released. That makes the original page even more pointless :P {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:19, 2 January 2018 (EST)


Lcrossmk8: I do not think you can just support this proposal just because you like Luigi. Please, look rule #4.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  16:40, 2 January 2018 (EST)
:Noted. Though I decided to focus mainly on the terminology used in game infoboxes, as I realized this wiki's use of the term "British English" is effectively its own can of worms... [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 15:35, February 9, 2025 (EST)
:I'm not supporting the proposal just because I like Luigi. I agree with all the other reasons the proposal is on here, and that's why I voted for it. {{User:Lcrossmk8/sig}} 16:42, 2 January 2018 (EST)
::You just say in your reason for voting: "As a person whose favorite video-game character is the man in green, Mr. Number Two, I think this proposal is just great." This is not a valid reason to support a proposal. Rule #4 says: "''irrelevant quips or comments are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.'' But now, I saw you put "Per proposal." so your vote is now valid."--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  16:50, 2 January 2018 (EST)


==Removals==
I'm a bit confused what this proposal is trying to change. Is it just about terminology used in game infoboxes? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:31, February 9, 2025 (EST)
''None at the moment.''
 
:In hindsight, I realized this proposal was trying to change too many things at once, so I decided to tidy things up and focus on just the game infobox terminology for now. [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 15:35, February 9, 2025 (EST)
 
Realistically even though Canadian English does use British/Commonwealth spelling most of the time, they just get US English spelling in games as Nintendo groups Canada with North America and their English is pretty similar to English in the US, so Nintendo products in Canada are just the same as in the US.
 
In this case why don’t we also just group American English and Canadian English into one and call it "North American English" even if it’s moreso mainly American English? [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 10:45, February 11, 2025 (PST)
 
:I'm not quite sure exactly what point you're trying to make here, but per [[Template:Languages/doc|the documentation for the "languages" template]], the reason they're labeled the way they currently are in game infoboxes is because they're the primary markets American English and British/Commonwealth English localizations are made for. And for what it's worth, whenever Nintendo specifically labels "North American English" as a selectable language whether in-game or in internal data, they usually refer to the United States or US specifically, not North America/NA as a whole. [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 16:27, February 11, 2025 (EST)
 
::I think I’m going with the fact that the English (United States) language for Nintendo is also intended for Canada (and it’s also applied onto the "Japan" and "Hong Kong/Taiwan/South Korea" regions on the Switch) despite just using American English. Kinda like with European French where although it’s just moreso referring to Standard French/French from France, it’s intended for all French-speaking regions in Europe (France, Belgium and Switzerland). [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 14:58, February 11, 2025 (PST)
 
If Nintendo is also still adding English (United Kingdom) for their games despite there being almost no differences from the North American English versions aside from date or other words if needed, why do they keep American spelling? Wouldn’t it make more sense for British English spelling to be used even if it’s one of the only differences between English (United States) and English (United Kingdom)? [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 22:00, February 12, 2025 (PST)
 
:Less work for something ultimately unimportant, I guess? It's not like American spelling is unintelligible to non-Americans. Anyway, what does this have to do with the proposal? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:39, February 13, 2025 (EST)


==Changes==
::Just came up to me somehow on the topic of American English and British English. Not as big of a problem anyways but just hit me. [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 7:37, February 12, 2025 (PST)
''None at the moment.''


==Miscellaneous==
:I don't work for Nintendo nor do I know anyone personally who does, so I can't exactly say for sure. But my best guess is that they simply don't feel like they need to anymore. The main problem with Nintendo not having separate US and UK English localizations before was that certain words considered offensive in the UK but not the US would show up in Nintendo of America's localizations that were also going to be largely reused in Europe, as seen with ''[[Mario Party 8]]'' and ''[[Super Paper Mario]]''. But now such words appear to get caught and edited out during Nintendo of America's initial English localization pass, like "[[wiktionary:welcher|welcher]]" in ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions]]'', "[[wiktionary:bugger|bugger]]" in ''[[Super Mario RPG (Nintendo Switch)|Super Mario RPG]]'' and "[[wiktionary:bummer#Noun 3|bummer]]" in ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]''. Also, it seems that ever since at least ''[[Paper Mario: Color Splash]]'' or so, Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe have been working together more closely on English localizations from the start, as a couple English localization staff at NoE are now often also credited on NoA localizations and vice versa. With any potentially problematic words (regionally or otherwise) now seemingly being addressed much earlier on, there's no longer a really good reason they ''need'' to otherwise address differences between American English and British English during the localization process that would justify the extra time, effort and pay. While I'm sure it was appreciated by some, as Hewer mentioned, most people in the UK are used to reading and hearing US English and can understand it just fine (and the same goes vice versa to a lesser extent). It's not like Spanish where many Latin Americans genuinely struggle with understanding Spaniard slang and sometimes vice versa. As for why they still store UK or “EU” English scripts separately from the US ones in internal data despite being them being almost or outright entirely identical now, I think part of that is a remnant of the previous generation where more distinct localizations stored in folders labeled by both region and language was the standard (and it makes it easier for them to port over the more distinct localizations from older games whenever they bother doing so, like ''[[Mario Kart 8]]'''s for ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]''). But I think the other reason is to make it easy just in case something actually still needs changing between regions, most commonly the aforementioned date formats. Because that can be legitimately confusing, since they would essentially be backwards otherwise by the other region’s standards. [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 19:56, February 14, 2025 (EST)
===What is ''Alleyway?''===
Once upon a time, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_37#Remove_coverage_of_.22cameo.22_puzzle_games|a proposal]] deemed that ''[[Alleyway]]'' was irrelevant to the Super Mario Wiki, and should therefore be deleted... except that was four years ago, and the article still remains. Now it just sits in limbo or something, and that's not satisfying to me. Frankly, I consider this to be a clear-cut case: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95J7_HFnIxw the game itself] shows [[Mario]] to be the player character (as well as the life counter). As also seen in the box cover, he's the one piloting the paddle. The rest of the game isn't bereft of ''Mario'' images either, as every single bonus stage features something from the franchise to destroy. And "it doesn't ''play'' like a ''Mario'' game" isn't particularly valid in a franchise that spans so many different genres, and especially not when the wiki already covers ''[[Pinball (game)|Pinball]]'' and ''[[Golf]]'' (really, if you're against ''Alleyway'' on the wiki, you should also explain what you think about this game). Heck, ''[[Mario's Picross]]'' shows that the franchise is no stranger to seemingly esoteric playstyles. How can Mario be cameoing in this game when he is the one and only playable character?


With all of this in mind, there are two options: either ''Alleyway'' is properly a member of the ''Mario'' franchise, in which case the article would be kept, or it only features cameos from the franchise, in which case the article would be merged to [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games|List of ''Mario'' references in Nintendo video games]].
===Make Dark Mode available to everyone===
{{early notice|February 20}}
Dark Mode is available to users with an account under preferences but it should be a toggle-able option for all users, even if they're not an editor. Wikipedia allows everyone regardless of role to toggle Dark Mode, so I don't see why [[Super Mario Wiki|this wiki]] shouldn't follow suit.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Pizza Master}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 11, 2018, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': February 27, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====It is a part of the franchise (and therefore, keep the article)====
====Support====
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pizza Master}} per.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Having played ''Alleyway'', I noticed there are too many ''Mario'' things for it to not be a ''Mario'' game. Mario paddles the paddles, there are brick structures in the shape of various ''Mario'' characters. So, yeah, per proposal.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} nice idea, <s>though I would prefer if Light Mode was called "Ground Mode" and Dark Mode was called "Underground Mode" for our site.</s>
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} This is even more clear than Tetris DS. Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Wait, theme changes are unavailable to users not logged in? Just, at all? It's not just dark mode, it's ''any'' theme, since it's all on Preferences. This feels like something that, if it's possible, it shouldn't even be a proposal, it should just be added outright without vote. This is a very obvious quality-of-life change for users that don't happen to be logged in.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all.
#{{User|Mushroom Head}}Why do we still need to create an account just to not torture your eyes when we use this wiki at night? It literally has zero effect to the users who are always logged in anyways.
#{{User|Glowsquid}} was wrong.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all
#{{User|Chester Alan Arthur}} Mario is literally the playable character it's more then a simple cameo.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} The fact that this wiki has a Dark Mode and it ''still'' isn't available to everyone who uses the site is a crime.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} It's clearly a guest appearance at the very least, because not only is Mario the sole playable character, there are also countless patterns that pertain to Mario. Wildgoosespeeder's vote comment is also a meaningless technicality (no offense), so per all.
#{{User|PaperSplash}} Wikipedia does it and it serves as an accessibility feature for some people.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|Arend}} Sounds like a good idea, and it seems feasible to implement...
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Astro-Lanceur}}Keep it
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.
#{{User|MegaYarnPoochy}} Per all.
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per all.  Besides, the official Nintendo website qualifies it as a Mario game.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Definitely more than a guest appearance or cameo, per all.
#{{User|Lord Bowser}} Per all.


====It only counts as a cameo (and therefore, merge the page to [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games]])====
====Oppose====
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} This option is a bit misleading because if you read the proposal, this option is for merging, not deleting. Merge with references, just like every other time I voted in similar proposals. It feels weird to give it the same attention as say ''[[Super Mario Land]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]'' because of the core gameplay. It's a {{wp|Breakout clone}}, not its own game series. Some videos why Mario is in these games: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el9994FZJd0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=112bTvFEo5I] Alleyway is noteworthy, but not as a separate article.


====Comments====
====Comments====
Since I've been looking back at [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_37#Remove_coverage_of_.22cameo.22_puzzle_games|that proposal]], might as well start a tangentially related discussion: what's the difference between ''[[Pushmo]]'' and ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]''? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:55, 4 January 2018 (EST)
My question is: is it possible to enable this feature for non-logged-in visitors? I'm asking this because Dark Mode is considered a "[[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Gadget]]", and not a regular MediaWiki feature. They work with JavaScript though, so I suppose it ''could'' work in some way (given we have [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] and all), but I would still ask {{user|Porplemontage}} if a toggleable, easily accessible Dark Mode for everyone (including non-users) is possible, if I were you. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:33, February 13, 2025 (EST)
 
:I've asked [[User:Porplemontage|Porple]] on his talk page, so we'll see when he answers. [[User:Pizza Master|Pizza Master]] ([[User talk:Pizza Master|talk]]) 17:40, February 13, 2025 (EST)
 
::Porple's response on his talk page seems to imply that it might be possible. [[User:Pizza Master|Pizza Master]] ([[User talk:Pizza Master|talk]])


@Wildgoosespeeder: I literally make it a point in the proposal to talk about how the gameplay means nothing. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:02, 4 January 2018 (EST)
===Make about templates on ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' courses and ''New Super Luigi U'' courses link to each other instead of a disambiguation page, but keep the disambiguation page===
:Also, in a series like Mario, "canon" means nothing either. This isn't a franchise like Zelda or Metroid where some things are "canon" and others aren't. The rule of making Mario games is "We have a bunch of concepts and characters, let's do something fun with them." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:11, 4 January 2018 (EST)
"Where is that Star Coin in [[Jungle of the Giants]]? Oh, I’ll use Super Mario Wiki. Wait, I’m playing ''[[New Super Luigi U]]'' so it’s the counterpart [[Giant Swing-Along]]. How do I get from the Jungle’s page to Swing Along’s page? The about template should take me to… a [[Soda Jungle-1|disambig]]?"
::Case in point: [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|that's literally policy]]. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:12, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::Gameplay should mean everything to article creation because simply slapping Mario on any game doesn't make it a Mario game right away. Let's debate the game's merits, not arbitrary rules you define. That's my argument with every similar proposal I voted on. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:24, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::::So ''[[Mario's Picross]]'' isn't a ''Mario'' game? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:26, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::::Let's focus on ''[[Alleyway]]'' instead of changing the subject. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:27, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::::::It's entirely relevant. You're talking about how gameplay defines a ''Mario'' game, and I'm providing an example of a game that clearly does not fit the standard ''Mario'' mold. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:29, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::I insist we keep talking about ''Alleyway'', since this is a proposal about it. If you created a proposal to talk about all the games that are questionable relating to [[MarioWiki:Coverage|policy]] and [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games]], then we can discuss that game further. If you have no other arguments for my oppose vote, then we are done here. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:35, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:For one thing, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_50#Does_Tetris_DS_count_as_a_guest_appearance.3F|you certainly seemed fine discussing other games]], but that's neither here nor there. What's most important is that you're adamant about the core gameplay of the ''Mario'' franchise, but you're completely unwilling to discuss it. This is relevant when you're using it as a reason in your vote. Don't just brush it aside. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:38, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::I realized that being so easily derailed didn't help my argument for my oppose vote last time. My mistake. This time, I'll try to be more focused on the proposal's topic of '''What is ''Alleyway''''', and for future proposals in general. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:48, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::Please don't brush aside my query and tell me how the "core gameplay" denies ''Alleyway'' from being allowed an article while other games are perfectly fine. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:50, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::::The first game was {{wp|Breakout (video game)|Breakout}}, which was a hit that inspired {{wp|Breakout clones|clones}}, which are very common. We got {{wp|DX-Ball}}, {{wp|Arkanoid}}, and {{wp|MegaBall}} for just noteworthy ones and also come to mind. There's many more. I've come across a lot of Breakout clone {{wp|shovelware}} on Steam and the Google Play store. Also, I said earlier that  simply slapping Mario on any game doesn't make it a Mario game right away. Also, the videos in my vote show how Mario ended up in games like that. As far as I am concerned, it's a reference, probably to have driven the sale of ''Alleyway'' (brand recognition) more than to be considered a Mario game. It's not an uncommon business tactic either. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:03, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::::Why does it matter how Mario ended up in the game? How does the historical context change ''anything'' about the game itself? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:20, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::::::You are only looking at his physical appearance in the game. I am looking at more than that, such as gameplay, historical significance, etc. to decide if the game deserves an article or be merged with that one page. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:25, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::Again, why does that matter? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:25, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::Those factors all contributed to the game's production and market performance. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:37, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::...Why is that relevant when it comes to this matter? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:38, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::I already told you, but you refuse to accept my answer. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:41, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:You haven't actually explained why the game's context matters in the slightest. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:42, 4 January 2018 (EST)
::Yes I have. Reread my comments. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:48, 4 January 2018 (EST)
:::"Because it's a clone." So? How about how ''[[Donkey Kong]]'' relates to Popeye and how ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' relates to ''Pac-Land''? "Breakout clone" is a bit of a misnomer, as it's a ''genre''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:12, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::Popeye, that is based on the love triangle trope. We got two men in love with a woman: The brutish fiend (Bluto and [[Donkey Kong]]) vs. the hero (Popeye and [[Mario]]) and their love interest (Olive and [[Pauline]]). So what you are saying because the themes are similar, that means one is a clone of another? No. Breakout clone is not a genre. The genre you are looking for is ''brick breaker'', or something like that. That would be like calling {{wp|Space Invaders}} or {{wp|Galaga}} a genre for all {{wp|shoot 'em up}}s. It's just become a term synonymous with that genre, so I can understand the confusion. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 00:37, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::"A Breakout Clone is a sub-class of the 'ball-and-bat' genre" according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakout_clone this]. Making it less of a "clone" deal and more of a specific type of game, which there's only so much you can do with, although the aforementioned Arkanoid proved that it really can be more than a clone, what with fighting a giant holographic red Moai with the same name as Homer Simpson's "catchphrase." So yes, it's still a misleading term, and not a good reason to say it doesn't belong here. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:26, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::The proposer is not wanting to delete the entire contents of the article for the oppose option. Just merge with [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games]]. No, don't delete contents of the article. Just merge contents and make the title a redirect or something. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 01:29, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::Except there'd be no neat way to include all of the information on the page into the article. There would definitely be something lost in the transition. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 01:32, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::We cover where the bonus levels are featuring Mario references, we got pictures (incomplete), we got Mario getting into the spaceship, the cover artwork, and the Wikipedia link. What else is there to cover? Everything else is just filler not related to Mario. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 01:35, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::I mean, look at any independent page, then look at the sections, and you'll see plenty that isn't there, like an infobox that consolidates information, an intro, subpages, critical reception and media sections, and I could go on if you'd like. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:05, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::But it's not a reference. As shown on the cover art, Mario's piloting the ship. ie, it's a similar situation to ''[[Famicom Grand Prix II: 3D Hot Rally]]'', where in-game, Mario isn't seen within the vehicle, but he officially is there. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:36, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::I think I already covered that part of the argument above why it is a reference. Also, we are sticking strictly with ''Alleyway'' this time. No other games we are currently covering on the wiki should be discussed at this time. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 01:38, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::Stop trying to railroad the conversation. Articles on the wiki serve as examples of what to do. Don't treat this as if we're arguing in a vacuum. And no, all you've done is talk about how Mario made lots of miscellaneous appearances. That does not demonstrate how the sole playable character is only making a cameo. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 01:42, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::Don't "we're sticking solely with ''Alleyway''" me, I'm showing an ''example'' of ''the same situation'' to ''support my point'', while your saying that I shouldn't comes off as whining about how I have supporting evidence and you don't. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:02, 5 January 2018 (EST)


:::::::::::Careful, Doc. Keep it civil.
What the hypothetical person above said. There’s only two courses with the code [[Soda Jungle-1]], and since Nintendo does not reuse worlds in other games in the same role as worlds, the odds of there ever being a third Soda Jungle-1 are 0%. Given this is the case, if a user does go to a [[New Super Mario Bros. U|Mario U]] course when they meant a Luigi U course, having the about template point to a disambiguation page for a whopping two articles means the user has to click two times to reach the corresponding article for Luigi U. While this is a minor issue, there's a whole [[MarioWiki:Naming#Shared titles|paragraph]] in [[MarioWiki:Naming]] dedicated to saving readers the clicks when searching for the most obvious topic of a group of topics that share a name. I think that philosophy should be extended to this curiosity.
:::::::::::{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 09:48, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::::{{user|Ultimate Mr. L}} is right. I never said or implied anything of the sort {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}}. {{user|Time Turner}}, it's clear you don't want to see my arguments as supporting evidence for Mario being a cameo. However, I see your point that because there is physical appearance of the man himself, that means it is good enough justification for being a separate article. I just don't think that is good enough. I also see this argument going nowhere. Best to stop this because we have made our points. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 10:52, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:No, seriously, you're missing a step. "Mario made a lot of random appearances" is not logically followed by "therefore, he is making a cameo in this game". I've read your argument plenty enough; don't just accuse me of ignoring them. If context mattered as much as you're saying, ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' wouldn't even be on this wiki. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:01, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::Nope, never implied you were ignoring my comments. I'm saying you disagree with me, implying you didn't ignore my comments. Anyways, what missing step are you talking about? --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 11:05, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::You're supposed to be telling me that. The premise that you've set up isn't immediately demonstrative of the argument you're trying to make, and that's why I've been saying that you've yet to explain to me how one necessarily leads to the latter. I'll stand by ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' as a counterexample. Also, "you don't want to see my arguments" implies that I'm ignoring them, but regardless. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:12, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::I guess my phrasing didn't translate well, not to another language, but the intentions behind it because I really didn't intend any malice. I just should have said you disagreed with me. As for the missing step, I thought it would have been obvious that the random appearances implies the developers of those games wanted Mario in their games as a cameo, likely to help drive sales, which I said earlier. It's not like they were building the game with Mario in mind but rather using Mario for brand recognition. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 11:31, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::Just to make sure we're on the same page, how do you define a "cameo"? Because the one and only playable character would never be a cameo for me no matter how you defined it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:46, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::Referential, that's how I define cameo. ''Alleyway'' is referencing the [[Mario (series)]], which is what [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games]] is. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:13, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::Why would the company want to add Mario to a game when (if it counts as a Mario game) it is their first Mario game? And should ''[[Wario's Woods]]'' not be counted in the Wario series? Should we keep ''[[Mario Paint]]''? DO NOT say that these aren't what we should talk about. They were made by the [[Intelligent Systems|same company]] [[Alleyway|that made this game, only later did they made the others]] and they all were even made before they made ''[[Paper Mario]]''. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 11:49, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::The first problem I see is "Mario game". We are just declaring it is a Mario game right off the bat without analyzing it first. I don't think this was the original intent behind ''Alleyway''. It's a game that features Mario, but not a "Mario game" per se. I guess what I am saying is what defines a "Mario game" is how much does it influence the game's core mechanics? ''Alleyway'', Mario is there and he breaks brick patterns in bonus rounds that represent things found in ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]''. Not very Mario like. Since my more focused arguments of staying strictly with ''Alleyway'' are pretty much done and I feel I got my point across better than the last proposal, ''Mario Paint'', it's the overall presentation and impact it had on future games, such as ''[[Super Mario Maker]]'', ''[[Mario Artist]]'', and ''[[WarioWare: D.I.Y.]]''. When was the last time you saw an ''Alleyway'' reference in a later title? ''Wario's Woods'', I feel that is an argument for a future proposal, similar to that of ''[[Yoshi's Cookie]]'' and ''[[Yoshi (game)|Yoshi]]''. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:13, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::that's like saying ''[[Mario's Early Years! (series)|Mario's Early Years]]'' isn't a mario game because nobody talks about it {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 12:18, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::True. This is why I wanted to stay strictly with ''Alleyway'' to begin with. Not everything will fit in neat categories. Some games blur the line. In the case of ''Alleyway'', when you take a deeper look, it's not a "Mario game" but rather "a game that features Mario" or just references things from ''Super Mario Bros.'' and should be merged. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:22, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::Wait, you can't just introduce a definition like that but only apply it selectively. That's completely arbitrary. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 12:34, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::Just like it's arbitrary to give some games article treatment and others to be put in a list? --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:37, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::(I am put something in ()s for a good reason.) Anyways. Why would the company add these "cameos" to this game when it was 3 years before Mario Paint? {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 12:31, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::I don't understand how ''Mario Paint'' is relevant to this particular question. I already said the cameos are put in because it was likely for brand recognition to drive sales, maybe through association. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:36, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::Why would they do that when the company hasn't done anything Mario related before? And Mario Paint is Intelligent Systems' first game mentioned on its article, which Alleyway would be before it on the same list. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 12:42, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::Edit: Wait there is Tennis, but that's the only game before Alleyway to have Mario (and Tennis was their first game ever). But, why would they have Mario as the only playable character when they haven't before? {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 12:46, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::::At the time, Mario was the biggest icon in gaming. It makes business sense to ask permission from Nintendo to use Mario's likeness to help drive sales to an otherwise likely obscure title by an otherwise likely obscure company. We now know [[Intelligent Systems]] as the masterminds behind the [[Paper Mario (series)]] and is a loved company for it, but it wasn't like that pre-''[[Paper Mario]]'', or at least I don't think so. I know that was the case for [[HAL Laboratory]] before ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]''. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 12:51, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::::You can clearly see that just by even looking at all Mario games before Paper Mario (whether or not including this). {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 13:01, 5 January 2018 (EST)
::::::::::::I Binged (same as Googled, but with Bing) for cameo and got some definitions.
::::::::::::a piece of jewelry, typically oval in shape, consisting of a portrait in profile carved in relief on a background of a different color.
::::::::::::"a short descriptive literary sketch that neatly encapsulates someone or something"
::::::::::::*"a '''small character''' part in a play or movie, played by a distinguished actor or a celebrity"
::::::::::::It is the last definition that I want to highlight. It works very well with [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Cameos|what we have]]. Mario is not a "small character" in this game. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 13:44, 5 January 2018 (EST)
:::::::::::::I really mean reference since I am looking to merge, not delete (see my vote reason), the supposed reference in ''Alleyway'' with [[List of Mario references in Nintendo video games|List of Mario <u>references</u> in Nintendo video games]]. That's how I am arguing my point across. I guess I confused myself yet again, as mentioned to {{user|Time Turner}} when he was asking how I was defining cameo. But then again, why does the option say cameo to begin with? I think that help to confuse the terms even more. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 13:51, 5 January 2018 (EST)


@Wildgoosespeeder: '''Please''' stop being so stubborn. This conversation was very unpleasant to read. {{User:Lord Bowser/sig}} 19:15, 6 January 2018 (EST)
We should carve out a special exception regarding the About template for this pair of games. About templates for levels from ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' and ''New Super Luigi U'' simply link to the other article, even though the articles in question do not share a name. The disambiguation page remains, because neither Soda Jungle-1 is more prominent than the other. (It also matches the relationship between ''Donkey Kong Country'' levels to ''Donkey Kong Land'' levels) As a result, this:
:I think it was just the way {{user|Time Turner}} and I were debating. I think we both lost our cool instead of keeping a level head. I've noticed this before. It's not unique to this proposal. Hopefully, this situation won't happen again. It wasn't too pleasant to respond though. Replies were flying. All because I disagreed with the proposal. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 19:40, 6 January 2018 (EST)
*"This article is about Jungle of the Giants, a level in ''New Super Mario Bros. U''. For other uses, see Soda Jungle-1."
becomes this:
*"This article is about Jungle of the Giants, a level in ''New Super Mario Bros. U''. For its ''New Super Luigi U'' counterpart, see Giant Swing-Along."
 
And so on and so forth for all... 90 or so courses.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Salmancer}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support: Link the corresponding courses together with the about template====
#{{User|Salmancer}} I only have 100 seconds to beat the Luigi courses, for the love of hammers save me the click when I put in a Mario course by accident!
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} If there are two and only two levels that correspond to the same world name and level number (e.g. "Soda Jungle-1"), then one should just immediately link to the other, just like pages that use the <nowiki>{{distinguish}}</nowiki> template such as [[Slug]] and [[Vine Slime]]. Seeing the disambiguation page should only be necessary if someone thinks to visit "Soda Jungle-1" first without remembering the level's exact name.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} one of those changes so obvious you question why they weren't done that way in the first place. per proposal!
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Very sensible change to make.
 
====Oppose: Status quo, about templates go to disambiguations.====
 
====Comments (Use <nowiki>{{about}}</nowiki> to cross-link Mario/Luigi U courses)====
I know I'm on about swapping from "level" to "course". That's for another day, which is why the example doesn't change the word choice. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 18:54, February 14, 2025 (EST)
 
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 15:17, February 15, 2025

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Saturday, February 15th, 20:17 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple sub-issues that can be resolved independently of each other. In a poll proposal, each option is its own mini-proposal with a deadline and Support/Oppose subheadings. The rules above apply to each option as if it were a its own two-option proposal: users may vote Support or Oppose on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then "Oppose" wins for that option by default. A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Organize "List of implied" articles, EvieMaybe (ended January 12, 2025)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)
Merge the Ancient Beanbean Civilizations to List of implied species, Camwoodstock (ended February 13, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Split the Ink Bomb, Camwoodstock (ended January 12, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Merge the two Clawing for More articles, Salmancer (ended January 27, 2025)
Merge Dangan Mario to Invincible Mario, PrincessPeachFan (ended January 30, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy, Waluigi Time (ended February 8, 2025)
Split Animal Crossing (game), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Include italics for category page titles for media that normally uses it

Shouldn't category pages for media that uses italics (such as games, shows, movies, etc.) use italics for their category pages? I did start adding it to some pages already, but I thought it was worth proposing about it, possibly to make it policy. I feel like italics should be used though, as it is used everywhere else. For example, the page titled Category:Donkey Kong 64 should be Category:Donkey Kong 64.

Proposer: Kaptain Skurvy (talk)
Deadline: February 20, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Wait, this isn't already policy??? We think this lack of parity speaks a lot to how neglected categories can be in some regards. While yes, the category description isn't really meant to be the main point, we don't think slightly slanted text is distracting from the actual list of articles in the category, and just because categories are more utility than text doesn't excuse the text that is there looking below the standard of a usual article for being "lesser".
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Nothing wrong with having more consistency around the wiki.
  4. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per all.
  5. Salmancer (talk) It is easier to figure out what the standards are from context alone when the standards are applied in every instance.

Oppose

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Categories are supposed to provide simple, direct, and utilitarian functions, not something to be read or presented to readers. I don't think italicizing them is necessary and would detract from their simplicity.
  2. Sparks (talk) Per Nintendo101. It doesn't feel necessary.
  3. OmegaRuby (talk) What is this supposed to change, exactly? Yes, it's in line with how pages about games are to have the subject italicized, but the change feels unneeded and especially arduous to implement for pretty much no reason. Per Nintendo101.
  4. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per all.
  5. Rykitu (talk) Per Nintendo101

Comments

@Nintendo101: In that case, why do we italicise game titles in category descriptions? (Genuine question, I'm undecided on this proposal.) Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:58, February 7, 2025 (EST)

Because that is a proper sentence. It is not the tool itself. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:15, February 7, 2025 (EST)
We mean... Wiki policy is to italicize game titles on their articles' names using {{Italic title}}, too, and those aren't proper sentences. They're article names. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 19:00, February 8, 2025 (EST)
That's not the same situation in my eyes because the articles are what the site is for. That is what we are writing and presenting to the public. Of course we would italicize those. The categories are a tool, chiefly for site editors, not readers. We do not really gain anything from italicizing their titles. If anything, I worry this would lead to a lot of work to implement, either burdening site editors, porplemontage, or both. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:05, February 9, 2025 (EST)
So category names are just tools not meant for readers, but category descriptions aren't? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:08, February 9, 2025 (EST)
The descriptions are just sentences, and I feel inclined to render those they way we would a sentence anywhere else on the site, be it on articles or in the description for image files. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:49, February 9, 2025 (EST)
We disagree with the notion categories are more for editors and not readers; while yes, all of the categories on the front page are maintenance categories from the to-do list, the sheer quantity of proposals for categories wouldn't make sense if they were moreso for editors, rather than your average reader; moves such as the reforms for the Look-alikes categories or the Thieves category wouldn't make sense if these weren't meant to be public-facing. And of course, there are the various categories that exist for users, but do not serve a utility purpose, such as the various "users that know a given language" categories.
As for difficulty implementing, considering the recent success stories with images without descriptions and categories without descriptions having gone from 4000+ and ≈100, to 0 and 0 respectively, we have it in good faith that this wouldn't be that hard to implement. Monotonous? Yes. But difficult? It's nothing a bit of caffeine and music can't solve. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 18:22, February 9, 2025 (EST)
Not only for editors, but chiefly for them. I don't exclude the idea of more curious readers utilizing them, but I suspect they are exceptions. I maintain that their ease of implementation is more important to the site than the formatting inconsistency. Like, are we to be expected to format category ourselves as "[[Category:Super Mario World screenshots|Category:''Super Mario World'' screenshots]]" instead of just "[[Category:Super Mario World screenshots]]" going forward? Would we do this for the articles that are in dozens of categories? Why? I would not want to do that, and I don't find the inconsistency a good enough reason to roll something like that out, and only brings downsides. It makes the tool where one types "[[Category:" almost entirely moot because we would still need to write out the whole name just to format it this way. Others are welcomed to think differently, but I personally think the way we format these names now in categories is perfectly fine. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:49, February 9, 2025 (EST)

even if this proposal doesn't pass, i think we should use Template:Italic title in the category pages. — Super Leaf stamp from Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury.eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 10:16, February 12, 2025 (EST)

I thought that was the whole proposal. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:32, February 13, 2025 (EST)

Split the image quality category

Issue 1: Category:Images to be reuploaded with higher quality is a very big category, with nearly 4,000 images in it right now. Even if it's something you can help with, it's very difficult to actually find anything in here. Issue 2: All other things being equal, some types of images require specific methods or skills to get that all users may not have or be comfortable with. To aid in the overall usability of this category and make it easier for skilled users to find things they can help with, I'm proposing the following two subcategories:

  • Screenshots to be uploaded with higher quality - Most Nintendo consoles don't have the ability to take native screenshots. That's all I'll say about that.
  • Assets to be uploaded with higher quality - Sites like The Spriters Resource are helpful, but they don't have everything. Getting higher quality images requires being able to extract them from the game files and/or the ability to manipulate them afterwards. This will also include images that are currently screenshots meant to demonstrate an asset, such as File:DKCTF Donkey Icon.png.

Additionally, Template:Image-quality will be modified with an extra parameter to mark the image as a screenshot or asset and categorize them appropriately. Considering we already have the rewrite and stub categories organized for better navigation, I don't see this as an issue.

Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk)
Deadline: February 20, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Split both

  1. Waluigi Time (talk) Category:Votes to be reuploaded with a better reason
  2. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
  3. Camwoodstock (talk) We're a little surprised a split like this hasn't happened sooner, honestly; if for no other reason than it would be nice to have it organized. Per proposal.
  4. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per proposal.
  5. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
  6. LadySophie17 (talk) Per all, which is mostly "per proposal"s anyway
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) makes perfect sense

Only split screenshots

Only split assets

Leave image quality alone

Comments on image quality proposal

Silly question; will images that are of neither screenshots nor assets that have the image-quality tag, like scans, character art/renders, or merchandise, just remain as-is? There are already a few examples of those that are all presently tagged with image-quality, like so:

  • Scan of 3D render, colors are washed out.

    Scan of 3D render, colors are washed out.

  • Muddy scan of 2D illustration, and background cropped.

    Muddy scan of 2D illustration, and background cropped.

  • Photoshop upscaled 2D promo art.

    Photoshop upscaled 2D promo art.

  • Too small image of merchandise.

    Too small image of merchandise.

Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 15:30, February 6, 2025 (EST)

Yes, anything that doesn't fall into either of the two subcategories will stay in the main one for now. I suppose we can look into splitting it further down the road, but I singled these two out because of the higher barrier to entry and also that they seem to be the bulk of the category's contents right now. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 15:37, February 6, 2025 (EST)
I think this category should also be split by the media that it appears in (e.g: Category:Game screenshots to be reuploaded with higher quality. Something similar should also be done for the Articles with unsourced foreign names category. Apikachu68 (talk) 19:50, February 6, 2025 (EST)
Almost all of the screenshots in the category right now are from games so I don't think it needs to be narrowed down further just yet. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 20:09, February 6, 2025 (EST)

Change "(game)" identifier to "(arcade)" on the articles of Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros.

I wouldn't consider "game" to be the best identifier for the arcade games Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros. There's already a Game and Watch game that shares its title with each of the arcade games, but "Donkey Kong" is the name of various other games too! There's the tabletop game, the Game Boy game, the Nelsonic Game Watch game and the slot machine. I know the slot machine is technically an arcade game, but it's not a standard cabinet like the 1981 arcade game. "Game" is a broad identifier, especially for Donkey Kong. Shouldn't a "game" identifier only be used if there's no other game with the same name? That's why we use consoles for identifiers instead, such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii) and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Nintendo DS).

Proposer: Kaptain Skurvy (talk)
Deadline: February 22, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Those articles also cover the game's release on Famicom, NES, Atari, etc., so "arcade" would not be a holistically accurate identifier.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Nintendo101; "arcade" is kind of a misnomer when the non-arcade ports are covered on them.
  3. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per Nintendo101.
  4. PaperSplash (talk) Per ThePowerPlayer's comment.
  5. Rykitu (talk) Per all

Comments

Maybe "arcade game" would be a decent compromise? PaperSplash (talk) 18:02, February 8, 2025 (EST)

What about Dr. Mario? That game also has a separate release also called Dr. Mario.--PopitTart (talk) 18:24, February 8, 2025 (EST)

The reason why the games Donkey Kong and Dr. Mario should keep their identifier of "(game)" is because those are by far the most popular and commonly thought-of games under their respective titles; the other articles (aside from Donkey Kong on the Game Boy) are on much more obscure devices while being clearly separate from the original game. To put it another way, "Dr. Mario (game)" is what people are looking for when they think about "the game featuring Dr. Mario"; meanwhile, you'd be forgiven for not knowing that the Gamewatch Boy game even exists at all. ThePowerPlayer Slug.png ThePowerPlayer 22:15, February 8, 2025 (EST)

what about Donkey Kong (1981)? — Super Leaf stamp from Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury.eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 18:39, February 9, 2025 (EST)

That would work for Donkey Kong, but the original Mario Bros. and the arcade game of the same title were both released in 1983. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 12:49, February 12, 2025 (EST)

Standardize the use of "English", "English (United States)" and/or "English (United Kingdom)" as languages in game infoboxes

So far, the use of "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" as language identifiers in game infoboxes on this wiki has been rather inconsistent and arbitrary, to say the least. While Nintendo is typically known for providing distinct English localizations for the United States (and other English-speaking territories in the Americas) and the United Kingdom (and other territories where Commonwealth English is standard, apart from Canada), the actual differences between them, if any, have varied over time.

Historically, many Nintendo games have featured minor English text differences between their releases in the Americas and Europe/Oceania; however, these were typically not wholly separate localizations to account for the differences between American and British (or Commonwealth) English – they tended to follow American English conventions for the most part regardless. Rather, they were simple amendments made by Nintendo of Europe to Nintendo of America's existing English scripts, usually either to rectify perceived shortcomings or to modify certain terminology based on internal preferences. These versions were typically stored separately on region-specific cartridges or discs, with occasional differences in how they were labeled in internal data.

Later, during the DS, Wii, 3DS and Wii U eras, more distinct localizations specifically for the United States and United Kingdom that also accounted for regional language differences became more commonplace. However, all of the aforementioned practices have largely faded with the advent of the region-free Nintendo Switch, where games now typically release simultaneously worldwide on identical cartridges. As a result, English scripts are now more often than not also identical across regions (or at most contain only very minor differences, such as the date format used; in many cases, the date format is the only difference), though they are still almost always stored and labeled separately in internal data, typically alongside each other.

This proposal aims to determine how we should handle cases of identical or nearly identical (American) English scripts between regions when identifying languages in game infoboxes. Should we list them both as "English (United States)", simply as "English" or adhere to how they are distinguished in internal data, even when actual differences are minimal?

Proposer: PaperSplash (talk)
Deadline: February 23, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: List largely identical American English localizations only as "English (United States)"

  1. PaperSplash (talk) My third choice. I mean, when it really is just American English, I can see the argument.

Option 2: List largely identical American English localizations as simply "English"

  1. PaperSplash (talk) My first choice. I think it's the best compromise that makes the most sense, all things considered.
  2. Hewer (talk) I feel like this way is the most straightforward and accurate.
  3. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) I mean, if it’s just the same thing and no changes (assuming it doesn’t include dates for save files), then I guess this one makes the most sense.
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Primary option. It's the simplest, it seems reasonable enough, and is applicable across the board; while it isn't exactly in-line with how Nintendo is handling things as of the Switch era, it's reasonable enough and can easily account for pre-Switch cases very well.
  5. Jdtendo (talk) Per all. Especially if that means that we will stop using "English (United States)" for games that use a variety of English that is not specifically American and weren't even released in America such as SMBTLL or Mario & Wario.

Option 3: List both "English (United States)" and "English (United Kingdom)" if distinguished in internal data, otherwise simply list "English"

  1. PaperSplash (talk) My second choice. When internal data classifies them that way, it could make sense to follow suit...
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary choice, as this seems to be Nintendo's official methodology as of the Switch; however, this exact rationale doesn't account for situations like, say, Mario Party 8 and its infamous recall in the UK, which predates Nintendo's official distinguishing of NA English and UK English from the Switch era, leaving us at a bit of a loss for how to handle it exactly.
  3. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) This option could also work if date formatting is different despite the game itself using the same script for the US and UK/Australia, like Mario & Luigi: Brothership.

Option 4: Do nothing

  1. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) I’m actually surprised no one put anything in this option kind of like the title mentions “Do nothing.”

Comments

For better accuracy, "British English" should probably be "Commonwealth English." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:13, February 8, 2025 (EST)

Noted. Though I decided to focus mainly on the terminology used in game infoboxes, as I realized this wiki's use of the term "British English" is effectively its own can of worms... PaperSplash (talk) 15:35, February 9, 2025 (EST)

I'm a bit confused what this proposal is trying to change. Is it just about terminology used in game infoboxes? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:31, February 9, 2025 (EST)

In hindsight, I realized this proposal was trying to change too many things at once, so I decided to tidy things up and focus on just the game infobox terminology for now. PaperSplash (talk) 15:35, February 9, 2025 (EST)

Realistically even though Canadian English does use British/Commonwealth spelling most of the time, they just get US English spelling in games as Nintendo groups Canada with North America and their English is pretty similar to English in the US, so Nintendo products in Canada are just the same as in the US.

In this case why don’t we also just group American English and Canadian English into one and call it "North American English" even if it’s moreso mainly American English? CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 10:45, February 11, 2025 (PST)

I'm not quite sure exactly what point you're trying to make here, but per the documentation for the "languages" template, the reason they're labeled the way they currently are in game infoboxes is because they're the primary markets American English and British/Commonwealth English localizations are made for. And for what it's worth, whenever Nintendo specifically labels "North American English" as a selectable language whether in-game or in internal data, they usually refer to the United States or US specifically, not North America/NA as a whole. PaperSplash (talk) 16:27, February 11, 2025 (EST)
I think I’m going with the fact that the English (United States) language for Nintendo is also intended for Canada (and it’s also applied onto the "Japan" and "Hong Kong/Taiwan/South Korea" regions on the Switch) despite just using American English. Kinda like with European French where although it’s just moreso referring to Standard French/French from France, it’s intended for all French-speaking regions in Europe (France, Belgium and Switzerland). CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 14:58, February 11, 2025 (PST)

If Nintendo is also still adding English (United Kingdom) for their games despite there being almost no differences from the North American English versions aside from date or other words if needed, why do they keep American spelling? Wouldn’t it make more sense for British English spelling to be used even if it’s one of the only differences between English (United States) and English (United Kingdom)? CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 22:00, February 12, 2025 (PST)

Less work for something ultimately unimportant, I guess? It's not like American spelling is unintelligible to non-Americans. Anyway, what does this have to do with the proposal? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:39, February 13, 2025 (EST)
Just came up to me somehow on the topic of American English and British English. Not as big of a problem anyways but just hit me. CarlosYoshiBoi (talk) 7:37, February 12, 2025 (PST)
I don't work for Nintendo nor do I know anyone personally who does, so I can't exactly say for sure. But my best guess is that they simply don't feel like they need to anymore. The main problem with Nintendo not having separate US and UK English localizations before was that certain words considered offensive in the UK but not the US would show up in Nintendo of America's localizations that were also going to be largely reused in Europe, as seen with Mario Party 8 and Super Paper Mario. But now such words appear to get caught and edited out during Nintendo of America's initial English localization pass, like "welcher" in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, "bugger" in Super Mario RPG and "bummer" in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. Also, it seems that ever since at least Paper Mario: Color Splash or so, Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe have been working together more closely on English localizations from the start, as a couple English localization staff at NoE are now often also credited on NoA localizations and vice versa. With any potentially problematic words (regionally or otherwise) now seemingly being addressed much earlier on, there's no longer a really good reason they need to otherwise address differences between American English and British English during the localization process that would justify the extra time, effort and pay. While I'm sure it was appreciated by some, as Hewer mentioned, most people in the UK are used to reading and hearing US English and can understand it just fine (and the same goes vice versa to a lesser extent). It's not like Spanish where many Latin Americans genuinely struggle with understanding Spaniard slang and sometimes vice versa. As for why they still store UK or “EU” English scripts separately from the US ones in internal data despite being them being almost or outright entirely identical now, I think part of that is a remnant of the previous generation where more distinct localizations stored in folders labeled by both region and language was the standard (and it makes it easier for them to port over the more distinct localizations from older games whenever they bother doing so, like Mario Kart 8's for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe). But I think the other reason is to make it easy just in case something actually still needs changing between regions, most commonly the aforementioned date formats. Because that can be legitimately confusing, since they would essentially be backwards otherwise by the other region’s standards. PaperSplash (talk) 19:56, February 14, 2025 (EST)

Make Dark Mode available to everyone

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on February 20 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

Dark Mode is available to users with an account under preferences but it should be a toggle-able option for all users, even if they're not an editor. Wikipedia allows everyone regardless of role to toggle Dark Mode, so I don't see why this wiki shouldn't follow suit.

Proposer: Pizza Master (talk)
Deadline: February 27, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Pizza Master (talk) per.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) nice idea, though I would prefer if Light Mode was called "Ground Mode" and Dark Mode was called "Underground Mode" for our site.
  3. Camwoodstock (talk) Wait, theme changes are unavailable to users not logged in? Just, at all? It's not just dark mode, it's any theme, since it's all on Preferences. This feels like something that, if it's possible, it shouldn't even be a proposal, it should just be added outright without vote. This is a very obvious quality-of-life change for users that don't happen to be logged in.
  4. Mushroom Head (talk)Why do we still need to create an account just to not torture your eyes when we use this wiki at night? It literally has zero effect to the users who are always logged in anyways.
  5. Rykitu (talk) Per all
  6. ThePowerPlayer (talk) The fact that this wiki has a Dark Mode and it still isn't available to everyone who uses the site is a crime.
  7. PaperSplash (talk) Wikipedia does it and it serves as an accessibility feature for some people.
  8. Arend (talk) Sounds like a good idea, and it seems feasible to implement...

Oppose

Comments

My question is: is it possible to enable this feature for non-logged-in visitors? I'm asking this because Dark Mode is considered a "Gadget", and not a regular MediaWiki feature. They work with JavaScript though, so I suppose it could work in some way (given we have MediaWiki:Common.js and all), but I would still ask Porplemontage (talk) if a toggleable, easily accessible Dark Mode for everyone (including non-users) is possible, if I were you. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 17:33, February 13, 2025 (EST)

I've asked Porple on his talk page, so we'll see when he answers. Pizza Master (talk) 17:40, February 13, 2025 (EST)
Porple's response on his talk page seems to imply that it might be possible. Pizza Master (talk)

Make about templates on New Super Mario Bros. U courses and New Super Luigi U courses link to each other instead of a disambiguation page, but keep the disambiguation page

"Where is that Star Coin in Jungle of the Giants? Oh, I’ll use Super Mario Wiki. Wait, I’m playing New Super Luigi U so it’s the counterpart Giant Swing-Along. How do I get from the Jungle’s page to Swing Along’s page? The about template should take me to… a disambig?"

What the hypothetical person above said. There’s only two courses with the code Soda Jungle-1, and since Nintendo does not reuse worlds in other games in the same role as worlds, the odds of there ever being a third Soda Jungle-1 are 0%. Given this is the case, if a user does go to a Mario U course when they meant a Luigi U course, having the about template point to a disambiguation page for a whopping two articles means the user has to click two times to reach the corresponding article for Luigi U. While this is a minor issue, there's a whole paragraph in MarioWiki:Naming dedicated to saving readers the clicks when searching for the most obvious topic of a group of topics that share a name. I think that philosophy should be extended to this curiosity.

We should carve out a special exception regarding the About template for this pair of games. About templates for levels from New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U simply link to the other article, even though the articles in question do not share a name. The disambiguation page remains, because neither Soda Jungle-1 is more prominent than the other. (It also matches the relationship between Donkey Kong Country levels to Donkey Kong Land levels) As a result, this:

  • "This article is about Jungle of the Giants, a level in New Super Mario Bros. U. For other uses, see Soda Jungle-1."

becomes this:

  • "This article is about Jungle of the Giants, a level in New Super Mario Bros. U. For its New Super Luigi U counterpart, see Giant Swing-Along."

And so on and so forth for all... 90 or so courses.

Proposer: Salmancer (talk)
Deadline: February 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: Link the corresponding courses together with the about template

  1. Salmancer (talk) I only have 100 seconds to beat the Luigi courses, for the love of hammers save me the click when I put in a Mario course by accident!
  2. ThePowerPlayer (talk) If there are two and only two levels that correspond to the same world name and level number (e.g. "Soda Jungle-1"), then one should just immediately link to the other, just like pages that use the {{distinguish}} template such as Slug and Vine Slime. Seeing the disambiguation page should only be necessary if someone thinks to visit "Soda Jungle-1" first without remembering the level's exact name.
  3. EvieMaybe (talk) one of those changes so obvious you question why they weren't done that way in the first place. per proposal!
  4. Rykitu (talk) Per all
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Very sensible change to make.

Oppose: Status quo, about templates go to disambiguations.

Comments (Use {{about}} to cross-link Mario/Luigi U courses)

I know I'm on about swapping from "level" to "course". That's for another day, which is why the example doesn't change the word choice. Salmancer (talk) 18:54, February 14, 2025 (EST)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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