MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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(→‎Pie For Everyone: Would be nice if people didn't remove my vote.)
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====Pie For No One====
====Pie For No One====
{{User:Super-Yoshi}} pie killed me and my family i cant let it kill ppl again


====Comments====
====Comments====

Revision as of 04:40, April 1, 2015

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Thursday, January 2nd, 13:30 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  2. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  3. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  8. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  15. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  16. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  17. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  18. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  19. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  20. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Below is an example of what your proposal must look like. If you are unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. When updating the bracketed variables with actual information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games, Nintendo101 (ended December 25, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Make changes to List of Smash Taunt characters, Hewer (ended December 27, 2024)
Merge Candy Block with Hard Block, Nintendo101 (ended December 31, 2024)
Merge ON/OFF Conveyor Belt with Conveyor Belt, PopitTart (ended January 1, 2025)

List of Talk Page Proposals

Writing Guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Pie For Everyone (revist redux)

Over the last year, since we last came together to discuss the often mentioned and regularly requested "pie button" feature, I've been submerging myself into the community to find what you, the users, actually want. More than that, I've been practically pestering my fellow admins on what they actually think of the my suggested pie creation and distribution system, why they felt it wouldn't work, the possible benefits and long term costs of such a system and how we can bring it all to the people.

Taking all the feedback into account and reviewing the results of the past proposals, here are what I have identified as the key concerns:

1. Selection. Not of pie fillings, but of just pie itself. Some stated cake was better, other suggested they would support the idea if milk was offered. 2. Difficulty. This seemed to be the chief concern among my fellow admins, that it would take a large number of resources to set up and that the slightest miss-step will bring the whole thing crashing down. 3. Practicality. A few were concerned that pie, or indeed any food, would be a poor motivator or reward for hard working editors. 4. Dumb/Silly/Stupid. I believe this speaks for itself.

I've crunched the numbers, looked over our resources and I think I've found a solution for all of these points that I hope will quill any further concerns. Now, before we get into this, let's be clear that this is an early draft of ideas for a work in progress. Positive feedback would be the most helpful in rearing the project to it's full potential.

Here is what has been carried over from the previous two proposals, with edits to match current ideas:

  • A single editor may only make use of the pie button once every 24 hours, due to constraints on the currently proposed delivery system (detailed below).
  • Each piece of pie will cost $3 American (or it's equivalent in your home countries currency). This is to cover basic delivery services. This price may need to be adjusted as the project fleshes itself out.
  • Third point to help make proposal look less like I just suddenly decided to do it at 3am, when in actually I've been thinking about this for a week, but I come up with my best ideas under time related pressure.

And to the concerns listed above:

1. I don't think it would be that much of an issue to expand out selection to cover other pastries, perhaps even instituting a "pay for custom" type system in case someone wants something we either don't offer by default or just never thought to add to the list. For this tentative list, it has been suggested that we offer:

  • Doughnut (suggested flavors: jelly (various), glazed, whole wheat & bovine laxative)
  • Cake (suggested flavors: angel food, chocolate, soylent green & Surge(TM))
  • Warm milk (suggested flavors: strawberry, chocolate, vegetable & soy)
  • Pie (suggested flavors: cherry, apple, Dippy's Home Made Sen-pie & Willem Dafoe).

This list is likely to change as the project matures and actual prices are worked out, but I feel this is a good start.

2. To the point of difficulty, I fully accept that the "pie haxoring" method was a bad idea, both for reasons of assuming wiki syntax is stable enough to do anything beyond confusing new editors and for the need to trust Wayoshi to do anything that would be classified as "not ticking off half the wiki staff" (paraphrasing). I have since Rube Goldberg'd a new creation and delivery system that I think makes full use of our resources while also not overtaxing our administrative team.

  • Step 1. Making the pies. I almost feel like I don't need to go into greater detail here, mostly because we are a close community of involved peoples and maybe a bit because I couldn't come up with an adequate way to segue into this one, but the pastries will of course be hand baked by our very own Crocodile Dippy. Perhaps this isn't known to some, but Dippy is a world renown baker and I am proposing we put her underused skills to work for the wiki. It should be noted that this isn't intended as a reassignment of her current position, but an addition to her current responsibilities on the wiki, with the authority to draft editors as needed Thunderdome-style.
  • Step 2. The delivery system. Again dipping into our talented staff pool, many of you know that our very own Walkazo is a Zoologist of some merit. Using her amazing science driven druid powers over nature, my current plan is to have her entrance a flock of carrier birds and a herd of large damn moles who will then deliver ordered pastries in a timely fashion. Distance won't be a problem as Walkazo is an all knowing druid-magician hybrid and can summon creatures to any spot on the planet with a flick of the crazy huge shotgun you see her hauling around in every picture.
  • Step 3. The currency exchange, payment processing, all the little financial things. For that, we have Paypal. Yeah, that's it, Paypal, no joke here, move on.

3 & 4. For both the naysayers and generally negative people in the community, I say the following: I hear you. I hear your complaints, your detraction's and your concerns. Perhaps we don't see eye to eye, but I am here for you. I've been here for you for years and I know how to help you fully understand the untapped potential pie presents for us. Out in NIWA square (so that our brother and sister wiki's can make use of it as well), I am having a small, four foot high by four foot wide pole installed. This part is rather complicated and full of jargon, but a sign will be installed next to said pole so that those who are otherwise concerned with how "dumb" this idea is can present their opinion via an open forum method I'm calling the "sit and spin".


My friends, my family, let me be clear. This is no vanity project. I really feel that the power presented by a full stomach will allow us to reach higher than ever before, to become one of the most powerful wiki's on the internet and to truly reward those among us honestly deserve it. I ask you to think of your fellow editors when voting. I ask you to think of what you want out of the wiki when voting. I ask you to think....of pie.

Proposer: Ghost Jam (talk)
Deadline: April 7, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Pie For Everyone

  1. Yoshi876 (talk) I'm currently hungry so this seems like a great idea!
  2. Lakituthequick (talk) This is a great idea and I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. Per proposal.
  3. Binarystep (talk) Name one other wiki that has pie for everyone.
  4. Stooben Rooben (talk) I never get pie anymore.

Pie For No One

Status:It should be evident that I have retired for awhile now...
superyoshibackgroundfr7.png


Hi I'm Super-Yoshi. I will add stuff whenever I feel like it.

So, somehow you stumbled upon my userpage eh? You wanted to know...Hmm, who the hell is this guy? What does he do? Well you my friend have found the wrong page now get lost a pretty stupid decent hahahah what now userpage that's about education me. Read on, it's the most fugly userpage ever pretty good in my opinion :P. However, if you wanna know why you just can't be smart more about the basic unit of gravity me, check out my Userpedia page. Well, since Userpedia just had to die just had to die wtf lol your wondering why i crossed out the first one its because you suck , a new stupid loolloloool wiki is currently eating it's vegetables unlike you whos just sitting around reading this stupid text GAH wtf stop reading damnit in construc in your fayce tion. So I guess you wtf no no no you dumbass its the player not you just have to wait a century because you are not stopping from reading this text which is really annoying me right now few YEARS! SAY IT! months damn it you suck or so till we get caught up again from Scribblewiki.

Wanna know Whos Online? WELL YOU CANT :@....J/k.. Here:

Who's online: Alexo, Memelord2020, Moses Sin, LadySophie17, Platform, Wild Blacksmith, Mario jc, Starluxe, Raffina Higashikata, Sparks, Salmancer, Nightwicked Bowser, LostCause1118, Hero Vladimir, NayruLink, OmegaRuby, Skipper93653, Apikachu68, CaptainMonochrome, Garantil7, TheSuperZX, Technetium, Super Mario RPG, Jdtendo, Results May Vary, Perfection, Axii, NINTENDOBRO 2007, ToadMushroom823, PlugMeister, The Eggo55

Super-Yoshi
Image: Super_Yoshi-Demo.png
Name: Super-Yoshi
Age: 15
Gender: Male
Consoles he owns: Home:
NES
SNES
N64
GCN
Wii
Handheld:
GBC
GBASP
NDS
PSP
iPhone
First Game I've played: Pokemon Yellow

About Me

Well, I came here after I was looking for some stuff about Yoshi Touch & Go in 2005 and I ended up here. I didn't make an account, I just browsed for fun because I thought I found a cool website. So years passed by and then in 2007, I created an account. I didn't know what to do at first (And back then I had NO idea how to edit XD), so I watched people edit and add codes and stuff. After a few hours later, I saw a page that needed a game. I made my first edit shortly after that, and learned about Mariowiki chat too. I'm usually now in chat, while editing both in Userpedia and Mariowiki. Currently, im only on the new userpedia to keep M&M Studios and Rush Wiki alive, so yea.

Sub Pages

Goals

  • Have 5,000 Main Edits
  • Have 9,000 edits
  • Upload 1,000 Images.
  • Work on this page.
  • Make 50 articles.
  • Create 20 Categories.
  • Create 10 Templates.
  • Work on and Create SMW2 Articles for levels.
  • Upload images for SMB2.
  • Upload stuff from SMW.
  • Work on NSMB info.
  • Work on YIDS info.

To-do/Current Goals

Completed Goals

  • Have 1,000 edits
  • Have 1,000 Main edits
  • Have 2,000 Main edits
  • Have 2,000 edits
  • Have 5,000 edits
  • Upload 100 Images
  • Upload 200 Images.
  • Upload 500 Images.
  • Make 10 articles.
  • Make 20 articles.
  • Work on Bonus Challenges
  • Upload atleast half of images that have been requested for better quality.
  • Expand the List of Collectibles from Mario Party DS with all the images and descriptions so it's perfect.
  • Create 5 Templates.
  • Have my new Recipe Template on all the articles with images on them, it keeps it tidy.
  • Create 10 Categories.
  • Get the List of Collectibles from Mario Party DS to become the first featured list.
  • Add Images and expand the Mini Battle articles with their descriptions in them.
  • Have 7,000 edits
  • Help St00by out with this.
  • Expand Ride the Ski Lifts
  • Expand TLL articles (doh)
  • Expand Goonie Rides!

Major Edits and Other Stuff

First Edit
1,000th Overall Edit
2,000th Overall Edit
5,000th Overall Edit
1,000th Main Edit
2,000th Main Edit
3,000th Main edit
17:57, 23 November 2008, the day I became a sysop, by Steve! :D

Some Type of Userbox

Here's my Userbox if you want to add it to your tower:

An image for Super-Yoshi's signature. This user is good friends with Super-Yoshi.

Articles I've Made

Articles I just made from clicking Red Links. {{#dpl:namespace=|createdby=Super-Yoshi|mode=ordered|columns=1}}

Categories I've Started

Categories that used to be a Red Link, until S-Y did something about it. {{#dpl:namespace=Category|createdby=Super-Yoshi|mode=ordered|columns=1}}

Templates I've Made

All the templates I created. {{#dpl:namespace=Template|createdby=Super-Yoshi|mode=ordered|columns=1}}

Images I've Uploaded + A Surprise :O

Yep, all these images came from me :D. And also, a bonus Userbox tower is here.

Proposals's Userbox Tower
7,200 This user has over 7,200 edits on the Super Mario Wiki, and hopes to one day get over +9,001.
vg-4 This user is an expert gamer.
Oh my goodness graciousness This user is an administrator of the Super Mario Wiki.
NES Controller.png This user is addicted to video games.
PaperMario Items Cake.png This user's birthday is on November 16th.
Sprite of Mario from the Nintendo Entertainment System port of Donkey Kong This user plays retro games.
prog-1 This user is a n00b programmer.
The Wii. This user prefers Nintendo's Wii over the other consoles.
Nintendo GameCube console & controller This user prefers the Nintendo GameCube over the Xbox and the Playstation 2.
Nintendo 64 logo This user still plays the Nintendo 64.
The original Nintendo DS, in a silver color This user prefers the Nintendo DS over the Playstation Portable.
File:Psp small.jpg This user has a Playstation Portable and put Nintendo games on it. :D
PAL version of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES). Photo by Sandos. This user still plays the SNES
Mario hoops 3on3.gif This user balls.
fan-3 This user thinks that Mario, Kirby, Metroid, and Yoshi series are best videogame series ever established.
SSB This user thinks the best Super Smash Bros. character is Mario.
Ssbemblem.png This user likes the SSB character Ike cause he fights for his friends :P.
yoshi.gif This user loves dinosaurs.
258Mudkip.png So I herd u liek mudkipz.
Mario b-boying from Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix. This user plays Dance Dance Revolution.
The Kirby series emblem, from Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U. This user plays the Kirby Series.
Mario This user plays the Super Mario series. Duhh.
MK This user plays the Mario Kart series.
MK This user's favorite Mario Kart track is SNES Mario Circuit 3.
Red Nintendo logo (1985-2008): In 1985, the signature red logo was introduced with the release of the Nintendo Entertainment System. It was used for the international markets, with the exception of Japan and East Asia. This user supports Nintendo.
Sprite of the Super Appeal badge in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. This user is a huge fan of the Paper Mario series.
Poké Ball This user plays the Pokémon series.
Music.gif This user listens to video game music and rap. thats rite.
Ssbemblem.png This users favorite SSB stage is Mushroomy Kingdom.
File:Allornothing.gif This user is friends with Xzelion!
Yoshikidblue.JPG This user is friends with Stooben Rooben!
YellowFlutter.gif This user is friends with YY398, and thinks that he pwns.
PaperJorge.png This user is friends with that muffin guy.
File:Coin.jpg This user is friends with ©oin¢ollector
R.O.B This user is an ally of R.O.B 128
Master Crash This user is friends with Master Crash!
White.gif This user is friends with SilverYoshi95!
File:SKmarioman image.png This user is a friend of SKmarioman.
Dawnsprite.png This user is friends with Lilkaykaygal
Sprite of the Box and the Package from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door This user needs more userboxes. MORE, I tell you, more!!! Muhahaha! No Srsly, He will add WAY MOAR.


Youtube

Some of my videos.

And here is my channel on YouTube.

Emulation

I know alot about Emulators and Roms, so if you have a question about it give me a heads up. Also, if your looking for some roms but just can't find them, you can go [www.mediafire.com/super-yoshi here] and check out the "Roms" folder.

Recent Changes

Hey look everyone S-Y figured out how to add Recent Changes to his page, just read it rite over here:

January 2, 2025

My Sprites

Super-Yoshi.PNG S-YExtraMoves.png
Super-YoshiBattleSpritesYIDS.png

Girrr's model of me =3

Superyoshi.png Thanks Girrr! I really appreciate it.

omg

I really have NO CLUE on how it got up there, but it did OmgS-Y.JPG pie killed me and my family i cant let it kill ppl again

Comments

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Set Clear Rules as to What "Species Origin" Means

To my knowledge, the "species origin" section on Template:Species-infobox is for the main species a subspecies is descended from (e.g. Shy Guy being the species origin for Snifit), but I keep seeing it used to mean "looks like" or "type of thing" (e.g. "Bottle" being the species origin for PET Bottom), which would be like labeling Dry Bones as a subspecies of "Skeleton" or "Turtle". And while I think this section could have a use if defined better, I'm sure some would say it could just be removed altogether, or replaced with something clearer. It's starting to look like the old "Affiliation" section of Template:Character-infobox, unrelated things are being put in it just to make the infobox slightly bigger. This may not need a proposal, in which case I'll gladly delete it, but to my knowledge, there isn't anything on the wiki actually defining what that section is supposed to be used for.

Proposer: Binarystep (talk)
Deadline: April 2, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Make a Clear Definition of What "Species Origin" is For

Remove the Section Altogether

  1. Mario (talk) I feel like "species origin" treads too closely with speculation. Whatever purpose it has is already served by "subspecies" (or "related species", which I think is a better name than "subspecies"). The flaw in your support is the lack of explaining "Make a Clear Definition of What 'Species Origin' is For" means since it's not clear exactly how you want to define it.
  2. Magikrazy (talk) Per LGM. I think the section is unnecessary anyway.
  3. SuperYoshiBros (talk) Per Mario.

Rename Section

  1. Binarystep (talk) Changing my vote, I think it'd be overused a lot less if it was renamed to "Subspecies Of" or something similar.

Leave As Is

Comments

This is partly due to the over use of sub-species with little forethought into how it actually applies to subjects broadly or if it's even practical to call something that looks slightly different than something otherwise identical a "subset of the species. If we're being literal with the term, there should only be a handful of subspecies and it would flow counter to how we generally list things (as an example, a Paragoomba wouldn't be a subspecies of Goomba, as the wings denote an evolutionary advancement and both species are frequently found in the same regions, whereas Galoomba would be more of regional cousin). However, we use the term in such away that French Canadian's are a subspecies of both Canadians and the French. Sadly, there probably isn't easy or adequate way to solve this issue this late into the game. And let's all give a big hand to the idiot who first added the term on a whim to the wiki! I'm such a damn asset, aren't I!

What the hell were we talking about again? -- Shyghost.PNGGhost JamShyghost.PNG 03:23, 27 March 2015 (EDT)

Wings aren't necessarily an evolutionary advancement. Going off-topic, but technically, if wings weren't evolutionary advantageous, they wouldn't be considered "better". Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:51, 28 March 2015 (EDT)
For the sake of argument, I'd say it counts as an advancement in so far as video game logic is being applied, but not in reality of course. -- Shyghost.PNGGhost JamShyghost.PNG 01:47, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

Not really important, but here are some things I found on that section:

  • Bottle
  • Golden Diva
  • Hammer
  • Large fish
  • Robot
  • Squeak (on the Squeak article)
  • Thumbtack

Binarystep (talk) 00:49, 28 March 2015 (EDT)

My idea of a "clear definition" is basically obvious, confirmed subspecies only, like how it was originally used before people felt the need to add it to everything, not things that just look kind of similar or are that type of thing. It also means broad terms like "Bee", "Pig", etc. would not be allowed under that section, for the same reason why Goombas aren't a subspecies of Mushroom or something. To be honest, I think a lot of problems would be fixed if it was renamed to "Subspecies Of", which is a lot more clear than "Species Origin". In fact, I'll change my vote. Binarystep (talk) 21:29, 28 March 2015 (EDT)

@Mario (and Ghost Jam): If something's not "better" it's usually selected against and erased from populations, rather than leading to specialization - unless it's being dragged along with a good adaptation (due to the genes being close on the chromosomes), or something that started out good and only became bad after it was fixed due to new changes or changes in the environment, etc. Anyway, it doesn't matter if differences are good or bad when determining the taxonomy of a species, just that there are differences, and Ghost Jam's completely right in that the way we use "subspecies" around here is completely wrong. Aside from some RPG enemy sets that only differ in colour, strength and attack strategy, things we call "subspecies" should simply be recognized as full species, and in the interest of uniformity and not making subjective judgment calls, it would be better to even call the biologically similar-enough things "species" too. After all, the wiki's current mix of "species" and "subspecies/sub species/sub-species" is both inconsistent (in many ways) and often just speculating about what's a full species and what's a subspecies, which, as Ghost Jam also pointed out, is frequently done wrong, and periodically leads to rather messy situations. (I.e. is a Shady Paratroopa a Shady Koopa "subspecies" or a Koopa Paratroopa "subspecies", or neither, or both, given how Shady Koopas and Koopa Paratroopas are already "subspecies" of Koopa Troopas?) As a zoologist by trade, it makes me cringe to see the word splattered around the wiki, and it is honestly on my (very long) "to do" list to see it wiped out someday, including replacing the "subspecies" header of the infoboxes with "derived species"/"descendents"/etc. But for now, to make this more on-topic, @Binarystep: imo, what you're looking for for the vague "species origin" header is "parent species" - the species that directly gave rise to a given species (in RL it refers to evolution, but here it's from a game development POV - however the idea's the same: from X came Y, by adding wings/changing the colour/etc.). I also recommend making only one rename/redefine voting header (alongside the removal and leave-it-be options) as you're potentially splitting the vote and the basic idea that it's potentially a useful header if it's fixed is pretty much the same for both options anyway. - Walkazo (talk)
Ooo, yeah, but my point is that wings don't necessarily denote an advancement, which implies it's "better" somehow. But anyhow, what about "related species" rather than "subspecies"? You can put the alleged "parent species" on top and put all the related ones underneath without actually assuming the Paragoomba came before the Paragloomba or something like that. I mean, creation-wise, that would make sense, but it seems to be assuming that one form chronologically came before the other. Or, maybe I'm just bringing up arguments that aren't there. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 22:49, 31 March 2015 (EDT)
I knew that wing thing was wrong when I typed it, but it was the only thing think of to get the point across (I was also going under the assumption most people get all the things involved in the species/subspecies selection process, hell I only have a cursory understanding of it). Regardless, I like the idea of the mass correction of terms and Walkazo's suggestion of derived species (or similar). -- Shyghost.PNGGhost JamShyghost.PNG 01:45, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
To be honest, I don't think "Related Species" would work for that, I think it'd be better for similar species (e.g. Li'l Sparkys are similar to Sparks, but not a subspecies). Binarystep (talk) 04:08, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

You know, I'm going to withdraw this, since it doesn't really need a proposal, I'll try my luck with a forum thread instead. Binarystep (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2015 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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