Talk:Hammer

(First topic)

This page should really be merged with Hammer. A Hammer is a weapon and all its various functions can be explained on that page. This page is really unnecessary. Why create two pages when one longer page could do a better job explaining the info? We need to follow the policy established in MarioWiki:Once and only once. -- Son of Suns

I agree, and I have performed the sysop actions and merged the article. For the record users who have a similar view for a different set of articles should add {{merge to}} and {{merge from}}. Wayoshi ( T·C·@ ) 15:08, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

Why

I would have added the info to the article, but I thought it was more of an item than an attack. If this is considered both, we might as well add the Bros. Items from MLPiT or the items from the Mario Kart Series. Can they also be considered both? Remember that Special Moves can mean;The unique attacks, actions, abilities, spells, and techniques of the Marioverse;as said in the introduction of Special Moves. The Bros. Items are technically attacks in the form of items.

I understand that Mario Kart Series items are not really considered an attack, ability, spell, or techniques. It is really considered a weapon using an item or a vessel in which the attack or ability is used. However some moves share the same name with it's item. I think we should alter the name Special Moves to something even more universal. Universal enough to include the items stated above. But what? This is a dilemma that needs solving. For now I'll delay completing the Hammer article, until this is resolved.-Spike

Items should remain as items and special moves should remain as special moves. What you do with an item is technically an action, but it all stems from the item itself. That's why we have item pages, to tell what the item is and what you can do with it (i.e., what actions can be performed with such an item). As such, Bros. Items and Mario Kart items should be listed as items, and if they are included in the Special Moves page they should be removed. These items should be included on the items page, but under a special category such as Bros. Items or Mario Kart items. A Hammer is an item that can perform certain functions, just like any other item. Bros. Items are items that are used for certain functions. Special Moves stem from the characters own physical or magical abilities. Mario can Jump, Geno can use Geno Whirl, etc. They are not dependant on items for the source of their power; their source is the characters themselves. A move that has the same name as an item, but does not originate from the item itself should be given the title Name (Special Move) while the item should be named Name (Item). Hammer attacks are generated by the Hammer, so any info about Hammers and their effects should be included in this article. -- Son of Suns

Wario Land: Shake It! & Super Mario World & Game & Watch Gallery 4

In Wario Land: Shake It!, When Wario is going to try to break the globe, he uses a hammer. When Mario destroys Lemmy Koopa's castle in Super Mario World, he also uses a hammer. In Game & Watch Gallery 4, in Fire Attack, Wario uses a hammer. Should not that be mentioned? User:Magma

Lucky Hammer

Given the new Lucky Hammer (ラッキーハンマー) name, are we fishin' a split? LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:44, December 14, 2023 (EST)

Seems straightforward enough. Blinker (talk) 14:50, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Yeah in my opinion it seems like the best thing to do since they have different names now and they have different effects. Annalisa10 (talk) 15:17, December 31, 2023 (EST)

Move vs Item

Given the recent support of a "not merging attacks and items" logic, I want to point out that, in some games, the move Hammer and the item Hammer are two different things. In the first two Paper Mario games, for example, you have three different hammer items (Hammer, Super Hammer, Ultra Hammer), and a whole bunch of Hammer based attacks (Hammer, Hammer Throw, Quake Hammer etc.), and the basic Hammer item can do most of the attacks, and all hammers can do the basic Hammer attack. This is also a thing in Superstar Saga, which has three different hammer items (Hammer, Super Hammer, Ultra Hammer) and three-ish hammer attacks (Hammer, Chopper Bros., Knockback Bros.), and again, any of these attacks can be used with any hammer. Covering both uses of "Hammer" in the same page doesn't seem right (this isn't an issue with the jumps, since the Boots and Jump are clearly separate, usually). Blinker (talk) 14:50, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Split... somehow?

There are a lot of hammers on this article, ranging from powerups, to thrown projectiles, to fixed stage hazards. They're surely all called "Hammer", but I struggle to believe that the powerup hammer from Donkey Kong, the ones thrown by Hammer Bros, the rock-breaking item in SMB3, and the large swinging mallets in Yoshi's New Island, are the same object in any valuable capacity. Various types of non-synonymous hammers frequently appear in the same game as each other. A silly image that comes to mind is Hammer Bros in SMB Special throwing powerup hammers. Should something be done about this? WilliamFrog (talk) 18:53, November 28, 2024 (EST)

I feel like someone will do a Boomerang style refocus on this article. Which would mean hammers as enemy projectiles would get removed. Salmancer (talk) 17:43, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

Seeing as we have both Fireball and Fireball (obstacle), I think we could split them in such a manner. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:17, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

Could do with an article dedicated to the hammers Mario and Luigi use in the RPGs. Nightwicked Bowser 18:22, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

Thing is, I feel those would logically share space with the DK/SSB ones at the very least, since the RPG ones are based on the DK ones. Not too sure about the map one in SMB3 or Builder Mario's hammer, though the Hammer Bro/Hammer Mario projectile could also be easily split off into its own thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:24, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

I actually wasn't too clear on those games. So should this split happen could have an article for big hammers that Mario uses. Nightwicked Bowser 18:35, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

A problem is that the hammer Mario gets in Super Mario RPG is pretty clearly one of the Hammer Bros.' throwing ones. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:20, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

Though Hammer Bros. in that game are unusually large - but the same situation occurs with the normal-sized ones in Partners in Time, I suppose. Maybe "Hammer (club)" and "Hammer (projectile)" would work? Of course, that still leaves out plenty... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:56, March 21, 2025 (EDT)

Split Hammer (move)

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Thursday, April 10, 2025, 12:38 GMT

At the moment this article covers two (or more, but one split at a time) different subjects: an item and a move. The two are not interchangeable. Several games have a basic Hammer item which can be used to perform various different moves (eg. using a Hammer to perform the Hammer Throw attack). Similarly, several games have a basic Hammer move that can be performed using various different Hammer weapons (eg. using a Super Hammer to perform the basic Hammer attack). This proposal aims to split Hammer (move) from Hammer, similarly to Ultra Hammer (move).

The list of games affected is as follows. Anything not mentioned below will be kept in this article:

• Paper Mario: The basic Hammer obtained in Goomba Village will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack and field move will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door: The starting Hammer will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack and field move will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Super Paper Mario: All information will be moved to Hammer (move). Compare Thudley and Ground Pound.
• Paper Mario: Sticker Star: The Hammer obtained in Decalburg and temporarily lost in Rustle Burrow will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer sticker will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Paper Mario: Color Splash: The Hammer that becomes the Paint Hammer will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer card will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Paper Mario: The Origami King: The Hammer found under Peach's Castle will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga: The basic Hammers crafted by the Hammerhead Bros. will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack, field move, and counterattack will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time: The Hammers given by the Hammer Bros will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack, field move, and counterattack will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story: The Hammers found in Trash Pit will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack, field move, and counterattack will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Mario & Luigi: Dream Team: The Hammers given by a Brock and Hammers as a category of gear will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack, field move, and counterattack will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam: Hammers as a category of gear and Papercraft Luigi's hammer will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack, field move, and counterattack will be covered in Hammer (move).
• Mario & Luigi: Brothership: The Hammers crafted and Hammers as a category of gear will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack, field move, and counterattack will be covered in Hammer (move).

Please let me know if I've missed anything.

Proposer: Blinker (talk)
Deadline: April 10, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: split move

1. Blinker (talk) Per proposal.
2. EvieMaybe (talk) VERY much per proposal. there's so many rpg moves that are lumped with the item used for it, it's kind of ridiculous
3. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal
4. Pseudo (talk) Per proposal—I've previously considered setting a proposal with this goal myself!
5. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per proposal.

Comments (move split)

Unsure which to vote for right now but here's a consistent idea for Paper Mario: The Origami King: "The Hammer found under Peach's Castle will be covered in Hammer. The basic Hammer attack will be covered in Hammer (move)" Nightwicked Bowser 11:56, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

I guess that's an option. Thanks for the idea. Blinker (talk) 12:20, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

The Origami King has the basic Hammer you can use in the field and works exactly as it did in the past Paper Mario games. In battle, you can use the basic Hammer move as a permenantly available attack and there are other Hammer weapons that are already split off from the main Hammer article; these Hammers in question are derived from the different Hammers in Sticker Star and Color Splash. If we base the Origami King's split on that, I doubt it would be "subject to change" Nightwicked Bowser 12:37, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

I see. Blinker (talk) 12:39, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

So, if I'm to understand this correctly, the Hammers that you get on the overworld will be covered here, whereas the stuff you can do with the Hammer which are attacking, counterattacking and using it on the field will be covered in a Hammer (move page). Am I right? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 12:09, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

That's a very vague way of putting it. There's a lot of stuff you can do with a Hammer in these games, this is specifically for the most basic Hammer move. Counterattacks are included for consistency with Jump counterattacks. Blinker (talk) 12:20, March 27, 2025 (EDT)