MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
''None at the moment.''
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{User|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>.


This page observes the [[MarioWiki:No-Signature Policy|No-Signature Policy]].
==New features==
===Establish a format for poll proposals on the archive lists===
Something that's slipped through the cracks when we invented poll proposals was what we do when we add them to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive|these]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP_archive|pages]]. We can't simply have one link to the poll proposal — the entire purpose of the format is that different parts of it can pass and fail independently of one another. What color do we put a proposal where one thing fails and another thing succeeds in?


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
I have several pitches for you.
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
#Users then start to discuss on the issue. 24 hours after posting the proposal (rounding up or down to the next or previous full hour, respectively, is allowed), the voting period begins. (The proposer is allowed to support their proposal right after posting.) Each proposal ends at the end of the day one week after voting start. ('''All times GMT''').
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it. Agreeing or seconding a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted.
#Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may '''not''' remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. The voter can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another User's vote lies solely with the [[MarioWiki:Administrators|Administrators]].
#All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week.
#If a proposal has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of '''three''' votes. If a proposal reaches the deadline and the total number of votes for each option differ by two or less votes, the deadline will be extended for another week.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than '''4 weeks''' ('''28 days''') old.
#Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation. However, the proposer can request that their proposal be deleted by a [[MarioWiki:Administrators|Sysop]] at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a Sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
#There shouldn't be proposals about creating articles on a underrepresented or completely absent subject, unless there is major disagreement about whether the content should be included. To organize efforts about completing articles on missing subjects, try creating a [[MarioWiki:PipeProject|PipeProject]].
#Proposals cannot be made about [[MarioWiki:Administrators|System Operator]] promotions and demotions. Sysops can only be promoted and demoted by the will of [[MarioWiki:Bureaucrats|Bureaucrats]].
#If the Sysops deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
#No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters, and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.


The times are in [[wikipedia:GMT|GMT]], and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Monday night at 23:59 GMT, the deadline is the night of the Tuesday of the next week at 23:59 PM. If it is posted a minute later, the deadline is 23:59 PM of the Wednesday of the next week, since midnight is considered to be part of the next day, as 00:00 AM.
<big>'''''OPTION ZERO'''''</big><br>
Do nothing. I'm putting this at the front because I want to leave room for any good-sounding solutions beyond the four I'm about to suggest. <s>It's here on the proposal at all because I'm pretty sure I'm legally obligated to put it here, but I'll be honest — I'm not entirely sure what this winning would... mean. Our hand will eventually be forced when our first poll proposal fully resolves, so a format will be established one way or the other.</s>


===Basic Proposal and Support/Oppose Format===
''EDIT: It has been helpfully pointed out that there is a [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals/Header&diff=prev&oldid=4772367 current policy] — they are red if they all issues fail, gray if at least one passes and is unimplemented, and green if at least one passes and all issues are implemented. A "one issue changes the color" kind of rule. It's definitely not insensible, but I feel that we could be conveying more information. Still, even if  this if the "fail option", we have a policy now, so I got what I wanted even if this one wins.''
This is an example how your proposal should look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to <u>replace the whole variable including the squared brackets</u>, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]".
-----
<nowiki>===[insert a title for your Proposal here]===</nowiki><br>
<nowiki>[describe what issue this Proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the Wiki handles that issue]</nowiki>


<nowiki>'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br></nowiki><br>
<big>'''''OPTION ONE'''''</big><br>
<nowiki>'''Voting start''': [insert a voting start time here, f.e. "2 January, 2010, 14:00". Voting start times are 24 hours after the time at which the proposal was posted, as described in Rule 2 above.]<br></nowiki><br>
The different issues of a poll proposal share a number corresponding to when the first issue closes. They're listed separately, and distinguished from each other via letters. As an example, the three parts of [[Talk:Yoshi_(species)#Properly_define_Brown_Yoshi|the Brown Yoshi proposal]] would slot in at #83A, #83B, and #83C. (That would shove some other proposals down; we could also just append them to the end of the list like normal and brush off the inconsistency if y'all prefer.)
<nowiki>'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the voting start, at 23:59 GMT.]</nowiki>


<nowiki>====Support====</nowiki><br>
The Brown Yoshi proposal is also a handy demonstration of an edge case we have to contend with — if this proposal passed ''right now'', we would list #83A as red and #83B as gray, but what would happen with #83C, which is still ongoing? This is the aspect on which Options One and Two differ. In Option One, issues are not added to the archive page until they close. The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later
<nowiki>#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]</nowiki>


<nowiki>====Oppose====</nowiki>
I would like to note that the Brown Yoshi proposal is a remarkably well-behaved example. If the issues were ordered differently, we may at one point have #83A and #83C on the list with no #83B until later.


<nowiki>====Comments====</nowiki>
<big>'''''OPTION TWO'''''</big><br>
-----
Option Two is identical to Option One except in how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals. In this option, they ''are'' added to the list alongside the other issues, and marked with a new color — let's say black.
Users will now be able to vote on your Proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own Proposal just like the others.


To support, or oppose, just insert "<nowiki>#{{User|[add your username here]}}</nowiki> at the bottom of the  section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on anoother user's Proposal. If you are voting on your own Proposal, you can just say "Per my Proposal".
This prevents the awkward gaps we would be susceptible to in Option One, but it ''is'' introducing a whole color for a temporary edge case.


__TOC__
<big>'''''OPTION THREE'''''</big><br>
Option Three is simpler. We create a new color in the archive for poll proposals — I guess let's say black again. Poll proposals get added to the archive when all issues on them are closed.


<!--<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{#time: H:i, d M Y}} (GMT)'''</span></center>-->
This saves space (the other options will have to give fourteen entries to [[Talk:List_of_references_on_the_Internet#Determine_what_memes_should_be_on_the_Internet_references_page|this proposal]], but it means the entry on the list doesn't reflect anything about any individual issue's status, such as whether it's been implemented or not.


''EDIT: Camwoodstock's pitch below of using three colors (and, implicitly, adding the poll proposal to the archive when it has any closed issues) doesn't entirely eliminate that negative, but it does seem much more useful than just having the one color.''


<big>'''''OPTION FOUR'''''</big><br>
Option Four is simpler still. Each issue is treated as if it were an entirely separate proposal. Each gets numbered and appended to the list when it closes regardless of what anything else in the poll proposal is up to.


<br>
The negative of this way of doing it is that the issues of a poll proposal may end up strewn about the list in a way that doesn't really reflect that they're a related thing.


==Talk Page Proposals==
'''Proposer''': {{User|Ahemtoday}}<br>
All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the Wiki should still be held on this page.
'''Deadline''': March 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT


===How To===
====Option Zero====
#All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom). All pages effected must be mentioned in the ''brief'' description, with the talk page housing the discussion linked to directly via "({{fakelink|Discuss}})". If the proposal involved a page that is not yet made, use {{tem|fakelink}} to communicate its title. The '''Deadline''' must also be included in the entry. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{tem|TPP}} under the heading.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per Porple "Steve" Montage in the comments.
#All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How To" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Porple.
#Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. There is no 24 hour delay between the posting of a talk page proposal and the commencement of voting.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} perple montage
#Talk page proposals may closed by the proposer if both the support ''and'' the oppose sides each have fewer than five votes.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Porple in the comments, though admittedly this is more of a secondary option to our more robust version of Option Three we pitched. Status quo isn't the ''worst'' thing in the world, and we do acknowledge our more robust solution of "dark colors" may be a bit harder to convey as we've been slowly rolling out... Well, a dark mode for the ''whole wiki''. (If it was down to us, the poll proposals would use lighter colors in dark mode, before you ask; of course, if that option somehow wins, we'd be down to help fine-tune it.)
#The talk page proposal '''must''' pertain to the article it is posted on.
#{{User|Arend}} Per Porple.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per porplemontage.
#{{User|Salmancer}} Oh, huh. I suppose this is a solved problem then.  


===List of Talk Page Proposals===
====Option One====
*Split {{fakelink|Star Hill (Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time)}} from [[Star Hill]]. ([[Talk:Star Hill|Discuss]]) '''Passed'''
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} It's either this or Option Two for me — it's important to me that the issues end up next to each other on the archive ''and'' that the status of each one is visible on the page.
*Split the weekly microgames from NinSoft and contests in [[WarioWare: D.I.Y.]] into separate pages. ([[Talk:WarioWare: D.I.Y.|Discuss]]) '''Overtime'''
#{{User|Salmancer}} There's no rule saying a poll proposal has to be for small things, since part of the premise was reducing the need for large numbers of combination options. There could be poll proposals that have wide scopes, and as such I think we're going to have to stomach the poll proposals with 10+ proposals in them to make it easier to track policy without thumbing through old proposal pages. Also an archive is for the past, not the present.
*Split [[1-Up Super]] from [[1-Up Mushroom]]. ([[Talk:1-Up Mushroom|Discuss]]). '''Deadline:''' July 10 2010, 24:00
*Merge [[Giant Spiked Ball]] into [[Spiked Ball]]. ([[Talk:Giant Spiked Ball|Discuss]]). '''Deadline:''' July 19, 2010, 23:59
*Merge [[Mad Big Boo]] into [[Mad Boo]]. ([[Talk:Mad Big Boo|Discuss]]). '''Deadline:''' July 19, 2010, 23:59
*Split {{fakelink|Pumpkinhead Goomba}}/{{fakelink|Jack O' Goomba}} from [[Goomba]]. ([[Talk:Goomba#Split_Pumpkinhead_Goomba.2FJack_O.27_Goomba_from_the_Goomba_Page|Discuss]]). '''Deadline:''' July 24, 2010, 03:09
*Merge [[Congazuma's Castle]] into [[Congazuma]]. ([[Talk:Congazuma's Castle|Discuss]]). '''Deadline:''' July 27, 2010, 9:30


==New Features==
====Option Two====
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} See my note about Option One.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Secondary option, but we do think darker shades of the colors (a-la our pitch for Option Three) would be nice. Helps distinguish at a glance what was a poll proposal.


===Wiki welcome template===
====Option Three====
I noticed some users (including me) having welcome templates with links to the help section, rules, etc... New users are supposed to get those. However, only some of them do. You see, some new users get reminders for not reading the rules. But if they're new, how are they supposed to know where the rules are without a welcome template. I don't know if this is possible, but I propose we make a wiki welcome template, that will be automatically on the new user's talk page. Like the one in zeldawiki, just with more details. This may reduce the reminders and all the misunderstandings.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We would like to pitch a more sophisticated variant of this; 3 new colors. One for a poll that has concluded, one for one that's partially ongoing, and one for a poll that has been partially overturned by a future proposal. Maybe dark green, dark gray/maybe a de-saturated dark green a-la the Shroom Spotlight template, and a dark yellow? The darker colors, of course, to contrast with the non-poll proposals. (On dark mode, we'd probably make these lighter, rather than darker, provided we actually even add dark mode compatibility to the proposal archive colors.)
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I definitely see the appeal in having poll proposals under a singular listing, but I think they'd be better served by having one or multiple new colors rather than using the standard red and green.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Mr bones}}<br>
<s>#{{User|Jdtendo}} Listing every single poll would probably take a lot of space whereas the whole purpose of a poll proposal is bringing together many similar polls that would be too cumbersome to handle separately. I would prefer having a single proposal listed as "Determine what memes should be on the Internet references page" that users can click on to check the detailed results rather than cluttering the list with a dozen links.</s>
'''Voting Start:''' 08:58, 10 July 2010<br>
'''Deadline:''' 23:59, 16 July 2010<br>


==== Support ====
====Option Four====
#{{User|Mr bones}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Frostyfireyoshi}} This seems a much better idea than having a bunch of users going round and only welcoming certain users, as this will make sure every new user knows the rules and has useful links for whenever they may become confused.
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} Per all. I didn't get one - :'(
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} Everyone should get these. I mean, I'm in the same boat as MrConcreteDonkey! One downside might be the lack of unique welcome templates created by users, though.
#{{User|Commander Code-8}} I got one only because I'd done something wrong and needed a reminder. Per all.
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Now everyone can get a welcome message whether they like it or not. Per all.
#{{User|Booderdash}} There are absolutly no downsides to this (at least not that I can think of at the moment. I never really saw the point of user made welcomes anyways since they practically say the same thing except for different colored templates and a different image.
#{{User|KS3}} per all.
#{{User|Dry dry king}} Per all. I got one, but another friend of mine gave me a second one because he couldn't be sure if I'd gotten one or not. This way, we can be sure.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Per all.
 
==== Oppose ====


====Comments====
====Comments====
That would probably work if new users were actually reading their welcome templates. Practice has shown that most of them just skip and delete them. Doing this will just result in additional work for almost no gain at all. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
{{@|Camwoodstock}} — I definitely think your pitch for Option Three is better than the version I was suggesting. I'm not really sure about the pitch for Option Two, though — the letters already distinguish them, and I feel like they'd seem more like separate states rather than a "modifier" on some of the existing ones. Not to mention, wouldn't we need a darker version of every single color just in case? That's a lot of changes to make, and we'd end up running into problems with dark blue, teal, and dark teal; or "dark white", gray, and dark gray. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 03:20, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:If a welcome template appears on new users' talkpages automatically, wouldn't that mean user-made welcome templates like [[User:Fawfulfury65/Welcome]] would have to be deleted? {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
 
@Edofenrir  You're right, some users don't read their welcome templates, and they face the consequences. However, some other users do not have a welcome template, so they can't read one.
 
@FF65 Yes, they'll be deleted, however, like FFY said, this is the only way to make sure every user has his/her welcome template. We can use some examples like your editing tips though.{{User|Mr bones}}
 
I didn't have a welcome template and yet, my sister had one. :( Had to resort to the Help page. {{User|LeftyGreenMario}}
 
Will this be like how Wikia welomes everyone after they make one edit? {{User|BluePikminKong497}}
 
Nipe, if you were on zeldawiki. You should've noticed a user named TheStoneWatcher. However, it is not a real user, but some sort of a...I can't find the right word to describe him. However, I think it's this[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] that we need. I am not good at those...{{User|Mr bones}}
 
Mmmmmm, we don't even know if its possible or not. We'll have to ask Steve.
{{User|Booderdash}}
 
@Mr bones: Yeah, I also suggest we add some editing tips to the welcome messages like on my welcome message. I actually got the idea from [[User:YellowYoshi398/w]], which probably has some better tips. {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
 
Steve won't allow a bot. {{user|Tucayo}}
 
@Tucayo Heu...What is a bot? Also, since it's possible on zeldawiki and wikirby, I'm pretty sure it'll fit here...I think...{{User|Mr bones}}
 
Okay, then check [[User:MarioWiki Bot|this]] out! Steve made the bot...before the proposal passes...{{User|Mr bones}}
:Yes, and the bot seems to already be working. A new user just got a welcome template automatically. But yeah, we should put editing tips into the message, I'm sure it could help a lot of users. {{User|Fawfulfury65}}


@FF65 You're right, this way, they'll learn basic editing rules. We're gonna discuss about what we're gonna put later.{{User|Mr bones}}
I don't quite understand option one and two, as the above rules for poll proposals state "A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done." --[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 07:09, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:Could you explain the contradiction in greater detail? I don't see what you mean. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 12:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::The options say "The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later" and "...how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals" there shouldn't be any instances of archiving partially closed poll proposals, they only close all at once when every entry has been resolved.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:::So is your position that we should use the lettering scheme from Options One and Two, but only add poll proposals to the archive page when all of their issues are closed? I don't think I agree, but I can add that as Option Five if that's what you want to vote for. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 22:48, March 4, 2025 (EST)


Ok, is this on yet? Since I just found about 3 new users who didn't have the template. {{User|Booderdash}}
I feel like [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals/Header&diff=prev&oldid=4772367 this] is fine. Either it's red (no change from the status quo so nothing needs to be done), gray (''some'' change was established and there is work to do), or green (some change was established and it's all done). There are other proposals where people list [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Clarify_coverage_of_the_Super_Smash_Bros._series several things] to be done, it's not that different, it's just that now we have the ability to vote on each individual thing. But in either case you just click the link to read exactly what was approved. --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 10:56, March 7, 2025 (EST)
 
No, it does work actually.--[[User:Mr bones|Mr bones]] 18:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 
Thats good. {{User|Booderdash}}


==Removals==
==Removals==
===Remove the fake "New Messages" boxes.===
''None at the moment.''
Yes, I know this was said before, but it was never inforced. You know how sometimes onuserpages there are fake "new messages" boxes? Well, they annoy me, and ot just me. Like once, we had to babysit our neighbor, and, when i clicked on the link on {{User|Hatena Kid}}'s page, a loud, annoying video popped up, resulting in the baby crying from its nap, and having a fit. Another one had a disturbing picture of a camel that was innapropriatte for little kids. Since nobody did anything about, and for the other stuff I said, i think we should take some action.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|BluePikminKong497}}<br>
'''Voting Start:''' 21:11, 10 July 2010<br>
'''Deadline:''' 23:59, 16 July 2010<br>
 
====Support====
#{{User|BluePikminKong497}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - I think the proposal description explains perfectly why this is not just a stupid joke. It tricks users by messing with basic wiki mechanics. These pranks can break people's trust in the page mechanics, and this is where it stops being funny, and just becoes a nuisance. Per the proposal.
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per all.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. Per the old proposal.
#{{User|Mr bones}} Althrough I don't get angry when I get tricked and rick rolled, if this makes most users angry, then it's a wise thing to support. Also, per Edo, using the wiki tools for pranks is kinda destrubing.
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} Per all. It's very annoying. If they want to include them, then they should put it somewhere else on the page.
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} Fake messages are easy to identify (never got tricked), but it's annoying. If someone must have a fake message box, at least he/she should alter it so people can easily distinguish it. (I.e. You DO NOT have a new message) or something like that.
#{{User|Its-a-me Yoshi!}}Per LeftyGreenMario.
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Per LGM with the differences. I mean, some people might be awaiting a message, and they are searching through user's pages, and they find the fake message box. They click it not realizing it is fake as it is worded the same as a message box, and they are rick-rolled. They are annoying, immature, stupid, a waste of a user's time..............
#{{User|KS3}} I know some [[User:Tucayo|users]] who have them, and it's pretty annoying. (I used to have one, but [[User:BabyLuigiOnFire|someone]] made me delete it.) Per all.
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} This rule should be enforced. I HATE those boxes. I get excited when I see them, but then, I just realize, oh my god, it's just another of those fake boxes. Rawr. You can't fool me. It's just ANNOYING. So I say we KILL, EXPLODE, and EAT those boxes. Every one of them. No survivors.
#{{User|Commander Code-8}} At first I thought this wasn't necessary but after another look I see how annoying it is. Per all
#{{User|Canama}} Per all.
#{{User|T.c.w7468}} Per all.
#{{User|Arend}} Per all. And, um, Tucayo, it might be true that WE could recognize them, but a completely new user NOT.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} If your like me you'll click on it anyway. Curiosity killed the user... Per all.
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|NARCE}} - Stupid, annoying, pointless. But that's never been a great reason to remove something.
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Your case is one in a million. If you are smart enough you can see they are fake. They are a joke, have some sense of humor.
 
====Comments====
I just went under the the tedious procedure of digging through all our proposal archives to find the proposal that addressed this issue earlier. It can be found [http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_15#More_Than_A_Joke here]. This new proposal might be a good way to double-check if the points made in the past still are valid in the eyes of today's userbase. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
 
It should be called "Enforce the Rule" proposal, like how there is the "Enforce the No-Sig policy" proposal. Anyway, it's easy to tell between a fake message box and real ones, but fake message boxes are annoying still. {{User|LeftyGreenMario}}
 
I saw a TON of sysops with them though. Tucayo for one, but there was alot more "contributive" people who had them.
{{User|Booderdash}}
::'''@Booderdash''': Sorry to say this, but try to get your facts straight before saying that. First of all, Tucayo is not a Sysop anymore. Second, not a single Sysop or Patroller has that up on their User Page, as I just went through the list. And, I mean, the more contributive people that have it, it goes to like "Special:Mypage" to where it is not as bad as other things it could be. BTW: My opinions are made clear in the proposal before that Edo linked. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
 
:::Baby Mario Bloops, he had it when he was STILL a sysop though. ANd I remember some other people who had it. {{User|Booderdash}}
::::'''@Booderdash''': Yeah, I realized that. Also, I made it clear that you point out '''had'''. Many users have removed it after the first proposal, and yet some still keep theirs. This proposal is a enforcement to make sure that all those fake message boxes get removed. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
:::::Most of the users didn't hear about the proposal, especially the new ones. I was inactive during the time. Also Ks3, how could Blof make you remove it? You didn't ''have'' to, at least yet, but she asked you to. {{User|Booderdash}}
:::::: Meh, I kinda liked those boxes. Its mostly just a rickroll but much more harmless. Its a sophisticated kind of humor. {{User|Booderdash}}
:::::::You have a rather uncommon definition of "sophisticated humor". - {{User|Edofenrir}}
::::::::Probably, yet then why is rickrolling such a popular fad on most websites? {{User|Booderdash}}
::::::@Booderdash: I remembered she gave me a reminder or warning of some sort. {{User|KS3}}
:::::::Nooope. I just told you to remove it. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
Sophistication is in no way proportional to popularity. Those two things are entirely different values. On the contrary, actually; Sophisticated humor tends to reject the majority of people. Therefore, most popular jokes are those that are more rudimentary. But this isn't subject of this proposal. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
:::::::I still don't see whats so bad about it. I mean especially if you just changed it to Special:Random or something like that. I would get how getting transferred to another website might irritate you, but if you just stay on this site, I would think its ok. Besides some of you guys are taking it way too seriously. Its just a harmless joke especially if it doesn't lead you away from this site. The deleted page archive in MY opinion is much more unfunny than the fake message box.
 
Many people have even said my fake template is really funny. And it is unoffensive. One link leads to a funny, UNOFFENSIVE page, and the ptehr one to [[Game Over]]. I don't see any harm in that. {{user|Tucayo}}
 
Exactly what Tucayo said. There is absolutly no harm in this. Plus, it teaches a valuable lesson:Don't get too excited and click random things. That can get you viruses. Also, if you're running away from a giant boulder and you see a wallet on the floor, are you going to get it? besides if you were already on someones USERPAGE, you would probably be in a very social mood, which I would think tolerate fake message boxes.
{{User|Booderdash}}
 
Those fake messages do not cause harm, just some people can't take a joke. However, if the link leads to a screamer or a scary picture, or some meture contents, or something that harms your computer. It'll be a good thing to remove those. I only supported becuse it's a wiki tool.{{User|Mr bones}}
 
It's a joke all right. It's funny the first time you see it. But once it starts pooping (haha) up everywhere, it starts getting terribly UNFUNNY and UNCOOL. And it NEVER makes me laugh or tricks me. I came to people's userpages to learn about the user, not to get "tricked". And "many people" is not "all people." If the message leads to somewhere funny, so be it. I don't care. I just hate to see that stupid, fake, orange box when I expect a new message.
{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
 
Well, its ok if it doesn't make you laugh, its just a thing. You don't have to think its funny. You just have to leave it. Like your pooping joke wasn't funny, but I can still take it. The message can just lead to Special:Random for all I care. I just think its a bit childish to have a proposal to remove fake message boxes just because they annoy a few people. And i still can't get how its annoying. Is it like some people think babies are annoying? Anyways, I don't see how anyone could fall for it. Its just interesting to see whats on the other side of the link.  {{User|Booderdash}}
 
:A few people? A lot of people get annoyed by it. And I intentionally meant "popping", but I had a typo and decided to leave it like that. And, like Edofenrir said, it's a way to mess with the wiki mechanisms, which makes us lose trust. And who doesn't like new messages? A lot don't like seeing the link go to another place when they expect a new message. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
::As I said, it is REALLY EASY to find out fake boxes. {{user|Tucayo}}
:::True, but it still annoys me. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
::::I know you did, but it was kind of a joke right? Anyways, i doubt anyone will lose their interest over wiki mechanisms from fake message boxes. besides if there is a real message, there would be two boxes on the screen and that is hysterical. {{User|Booderdash}}
:::::Oh yes, two boxes. So hysterical. Maybe later there will be three. {{User|Bowser's luma}}
::::::I doubt it. What person would be dumb enough to put 2 fake messages on their page?{{User|Booderdash}}


==Changes==
==Changes==
===Reduce focus on content only somewhat related to ''Mario''===
===Introducing the crossover article===
In looking at the [[Kirby]] article, I see quite a bit of content that is related to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. Now while I do not think that all of it should be removed, I feel that we needn't discuss content that is related only to Kirby or other series. It should only focus on the relevant references made to Mario by Kirby's powers, trophies, etc. My proposal is to remove such content unless it is related to Mario in some way [ie, mentioning that Kirby has various copy powers taken from Mario series characters]. But also - create a kind of affiliation between this site and the Smash Bros. Wikia. This way, instead of putting "amateur coverage" of Smash Bros. content, we can direct the readers to a site that covers the Smash Bros.-related content much more deeply. In turn, they can send readers our way for Mario-related content.
The passing of this proposal would accomplish seven things:
 
#'''See the publication of the drafted ''Zelda'' article''' discussed in this proposal, titled "{{Fake link|crossovers with ''The Legend of Zelda''}}." (The draft can be viewed [[User:Nintendo101/community garden|here]].)
'''Proposer''': {{User|NARCE}}<br>
#'''Funnel redirects and disambiguation pages pertaining to ''Zelda'' on the wiki to the published ''Zelda'' article''' (i.e., searches for The Legend of Zelda, Octoroks, etc. Fully covered crossover subjects like [[Link]] would keep their articles, and this would not preclude a crossover subject from receiving an article of their own in the future if warranted, such as the inclusion of Princess Zelda in a future ''Mario Tennis'' or something like that).
'''Voting start''': 12 July, 2010 21:11<br>
#'''Move details pertaining to ''Zelda'' from list articles on the site to this one''' (i.e. all information pertaining to Sheik on the [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee|list of fighters debuting in ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'']] article would be cleared, and searching for "Sheik" on the site would bring you to this article. ''Zelda'' info on the [[list of references in Nintendo video games]] article would similarly be cleared. Visitors to that article would be directed towards the published ''Zelda'' one when they reach that section of the list article).
'''Deadline''': 19 July, 2010 21:11
#'''Establish a navbox for crossover articles''' (either a wholly dedicated one, an incorporation into "Template:Culture," or a retooling of "Template:Crossover characters").
 
#'''Establish the precedent where this can be done for other IPs with which the ''Super Mario'' franchise has crossed-over.'''
====Support====
#'''Establish a 'Crossover article" section to the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style]]''' that explains the framework for crossover articles described below. This is to be the standard structure for how other articles are to be structured.
#{{User|NARCE}} As the proposal creator.
#'''Note that this framework exists on the the [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Crossovers|crossover section of our coverage policy]]''', and provide a link directing readers to it.
 
====Oppose====
#{{user|Tucayo}} - We will not have any affiliation with Wikia.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} - Well, not necessarily wikia Tucayo, but I see no use in doing this.
#{{User|Mr bones}} I see there are two proposals. Anyway, both are unecessary.
#{{User|4DJONG}} Well, we are not affiliated with Wikia, and the Smash Bros. Wiki is, so we can not affiliate with them in any way. Also, we should keep the Smash Bros. information on the pages because Smash Bros contains characters from Mario's series. If we were to go through with this, we would have to remove all the Wario, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi series information, and affiliate with there respective Wikis.
#{{User|KS3}} Per all.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Per all.
#{{User|Booderdash}} Just the Smash Bros. wikia? How about Kirby wikia, Zelda wikia, Final Fantasy wikia, Kingdom heart wikia, Pokemon wikia, phineas and ferb wikia, Resident Evil wikia, or Spongebob wikia? -_-
 
====Comments====
 
The use lies in creating more focused content. As opposed to attempting to give subpar coverage of non-Mario content, we give hits to the site that actually provides incredibly detailed content, and vice versa for the Mario series. - [[User:NARCE|NARCE]] 17:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
:As I said, no. We won't have any type of affiliation with Wikia. {{user|Tucayo}}
::Did you read the proposal? The act would involve CREATING an affiliation. - [[User:NARCE|NARCE]] 18:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
:::We are an independent Wiki, the Smash Wiki is not. Therefore, we won't have any affiliation with them. {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
 
<br clear=all>
 
===Change categories such as "[[:Category:Beta elements]]" to "[[:Category:Articles with beta elements]]".===
From what I hear, the beta elements pages were created because it was too difficult for the reader to find beta elements unless they were split out. This way, articles can be meatier and less forked, and readers can still find the relevant content. This proposal would affect all related categories and articles related to those categories such as [[:Category:Glitches]], and would result in the subpages being merged, such as [[Mario's Tennis/Beta elements]].
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|NARCE}}<br>
'''Voting start''': 12 July, 2010 21:16<br>
'''Deadline''': 19 July, 2010 21:16
 
====Support====
#{{User|NARCE}} As the proposal creator.
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|Booderdash}} Useless.
 
====Comments====
Why? {{User|KS3}}
:This is one of the times I can easily say "Good Point" to you, KS3. We don't need the '''Articles with''' part as it is just extra and we don't need the extra. {{unsigned|Baby Mario Bloops}}


===Stricter featured article standards.===
The ''Super Mario'' franchise is very much the IP tentpole for Nintendo Co., Ltd. and at least one of the ones for the Japanese video game industry as a whole. Consequently, ''Super Mario'' as a franchise and brand has crossed-over with many other franchises, brands, and series over its nearly fifty years of existence - not only sister series developed by Nintendo EAD and R&D, and their successor EPD (i.e. ''Duck Hunt'', ''Punch-Out!!'', ''Exictebike'', ''Metroid'', ''F-ZERO'', ''Animal Crossing'', ''Pikmin'', ''Splatoon'', etc.) and those of their external creative partners (i.e. Ape Inc.'s ''EarthBound'', HAL Laboratory's ''Kirby'', Game Freak's ''Pokémon'', etc.), but also fellow ones from other studios like Square Enix, Sega, Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Chunsoft, Ubisoft, Konami, and Hudson Soft. This is not groundbreaking news: Most folks interested in gaming history already know this, especially the curators of the Super Mario Wiki. However, I do not feel like we handle this information particularly well on the site.
From looking through some of the FACs, as well as some of the articles already featured, I've seen that not one article actually passes the criteria presented in MarioWiki's FA standards. Let's examine them, and let's use the most recent article - Mario Power Tennis - as an example.


'''   1. …be well-written and detailed.''' - Not the worst writing, but it could be improved significantly in both flow and how it presents itself. But the problem with this point is that it is not detailed. Gameplay and plot-wise? Yes. But it does not educate the reader of how it came into being, nor does it tell readers how much it sold, or how the critics received it.
A lot of coverage of ''Super Mario'' references, homages, allusions, and cameos are nestled within various list articles, inexplicitly at the end of [[Super Mario Bros.#Notes|dedicated game articles]], or in ''Super Smash Bros.'' articles with which there seemed to have been effort to bury on the site and [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.#Captain Falcon|are not wholly about ''Super Smash Bros.'' anyways]]. This coverage, exasperated by recent efforts to reduce coverage on the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series: (1.) obfuscates the fact that ''Super Mario'' has made references and ''is'' referenced in many other franchises outside of ''Smash Bros.'' contexts, often in very meaningful ways that are interesting and fun to read about; (2.) mitigates how ''Mario'' has been an influence behind some of these other franchises; and (3.) makes finding some bits of information just very difficult. If I, as a visitor of the site, wanted to understand scenarios where ''Splatoon'' and ''Mario'' have crossed-over, I would not have an easy way to find that all in one place, and I think that is a shame.


'''   2. …be unbiased, non-point of view.''' - Not a major problem, but I did notice some instances where the writer[s] give their own POV, such as suggesting that Wario and Waluigi being injured in the commission of their evil scheme was unfortunate [whereas someone may object and say that because they only got injured by their own evil design, they got what they deserved].
[[File:LA Wart.gif|right|200px|frog man!]]
[[File:SM3DW WS-1 2nd Green Star.jpg|right|200px|green lad!]]
To better cover and consolidate crossover info on the site, I have been drafting what I would like to call a "<u>crossover article</u>" using [[User:Nintendo101/community garden|''The Legend of Zelda'' franchise as an example]] (with contributions from Salmancer, DryBonesBandit, Memelord2020, RHG1951, LeftyGreenMario, and LadySophie17, and feedback from Super Mario RPG, Doc von Schmeltwick, and Koopa con Carne). This is a long article, and it is not wholly completed yet, but I think it is serviceable example of what I would like us to do going forward. Crossover articles take inspiration from the {{iw|smashwiki|Mario (universe)|universe articles}} from our affiliate Smash Wiki and, as apparent in the ''Zelda'' draft, consist of the following sections:
*'''Overview''' : A brief description of what the crossover franchise/series is for those not well versed in the subject and would like to know a little more about it without visiting another site, and how this relates to ''Mario''. It is the create a foundation so the reader is not confused by descriptions or terminology in the other areas of the article. For ''Zelda'', this section may be a bit lengthier than it would be for others because ''Mario'' had a lot of direct influence on ''Zelda'' as a series.
*'''Recurring crossover subjects''': for subjects like characters, enemies, bosses, or items that make substantial appearances in or alongside ''Mario''-related media, such as subjects that used to have their own articles on the site. Each subject would be briefly explained so readers understand who they are when mentioned in other parts of the article, have explicit conceptual or design connections with ''Mario'' highlighted, and summarize areas where they specifically crossover with ''Mario''.
*'''History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise''': a history section for where the crossover subject is referenced in the ''Super Mario'' franchise itself.
*'''History in the subject series/franchise''': a history section for the inverse, where ''Super Mario'' is referenced in the franchise subject of the article. In this case, it is ''Zelda''.
*'''Shared history''' (if applicable): a history section for mutual space where both subjects appear, such as the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, ''Tetris'' series, ''NES Remix'' series, or other media.


'''   3. …be sourced with all available sources and Mario-related appearances.''' - And here's the kicker. Some may argue that it is sourced in that it has A source, but that's not acceptable. This criteria clearly expects an article to be fully referenced. As it is, almost every article fails this standard, save for some like the "list of Zess T. recipes", whose source is obviously the game.
''Zelda'' is uniquely related to ''Mario'' and nearly as old, but crossover articles can be written for smaller franchises/series as well. The only requirement for a series/franchise to receive an article of its own is for it to directly crossover with ''Super Mario'' within an officially licensed capacity. Articles of this nature should not be written for series/franchise that simply make homages to ''Super Mario'' or have elements inspired by it, such as ''Celeste'', ''Gears of War'', or ''Astro Bot''.


'''   6. …have a proper lead that gives a good summary of the topic and can be used for the front page featured box.''' - The lead does not mention who created the game [the person, not the company], how well it was received, and mentions the Wii version as an important aspect, when the Wii version should be mentioned at the end, as this article is about the GameCube version.
I offer three options:
#'''Support: I like the idea of crossover articles and want to see them implemented as described.'''
#'''Support: I like the idea of crossover articles, but list articles for the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series should be left alone.'''
#'''Oppose: I do not like the idea of the crossover article and do not want to see them implemented.'''


'''  8. …have significant information from all sources and appearances, especially a biography for character articles.''' - Aside from development and reception info, it is fairly significant, but it fails this criteria in that it doesn't take from any sources.
I know this was a long one, folks. Sorry about that, but the ideas behind this idea are multifaceted. Please let me know if you need additional clarity on anything or if you have any recommended amendments. (Also, if you would like, I welcome you to contribute to the drafted ''Zelda'' article! It is in my "<u>community</u> garden" sandbox for a reason.)


Without any criticism of what is there - such as the bloopers, which, as a Wikipedian, I'm not a fan of them being there, but I do understand that this is supposed to be a "complete Wiki", and as such, they should be there - I can say that what isn't there absolutely guarantees that is is not ready for featured status. I think people take it too seriously - first and foremost, writing a quality article is priority over being praised for it. There are rules put in place to prevent people from successfully featuring more than three articles. Seriously - take pride in your work, not the award you get for it.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT


'''Proposer''': {{User|NARCE}}<br>
====Support: let's implement crossover articles!====
'''Voting start''': 12 July, 2010 22:42<br>
#{{User|Nintendo101}} [[File:Link pose SMM.png]]
'''Deadline''': 19 July, 2010 22:42
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposer.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal with absolutely no second thought. Aside from the obvious value such articles would bring, this practice may incidentally just be the silver bullet for the community's differences on how to cover Smash Bros. content. Nintendo101, even with your inspiration from SmashWiki, I'd say you still managed to think out of the box here.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} been waiting a long time for this one. per proposal!
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Secondary choice, I suppose. Better than no article.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Secondary option; we'd rather these articles exist, even if the Smash coverage is confusing, than these articles not exist at all.
#{{User|PopitTart}} It has always felt absurd to me that [[Captain Olimar]]'s presence on the wiki is entirely an entry in [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl]], despite being directly based on Mario himself and having appearances in ''Luigi's Mansion'', ''WarioWare: D.I.Y.'', ''Super Mario Maker'', ''Yoshi's Woolly World'', ''Mario Kart 8'', and ''WarioWare Move It!''
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Crossover articles are a great idea, and if it can also declutter ''Smash Bros.'' list articles, it's even better.
#{{User|Arend}} As long as the content from the list pages are preserved in SOME way or another, I am perfectly fine with this. I think this is a great idea, and the well-detailed draft really sold me on this.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Makes perfect sense.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Sounds good to me.
#{{User|Shy Guy on Wheels}} Per all. death to the smash bros lists
#{{User|Mario}} Those list pages are a spaghetti of sadness, mama mia. I love the idea of these crossover pages, wonderful idea (similar to those decade splits for the gallery pages), and they're going to be a massive step up from that mess we currently have. I don't want to keep those lists at all. Their tolerated existence makes our wiki look bad, although absolutely delicious, if you ask me.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} The list pages are an abhorrent sight and I'd much rather have Smash information contained in these respective crossover articles - if that proves too large for the size of the existing article, then the next logical step would be a subpage for Smash Bros. information, would it not? Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} I love how you've put this together, Nintendo101 and other contributors! This seems like a very valuable addition to the wiki.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.


====Support====
====Support: let's implement crossover articles, but leave ''Smash Bros.'' lists alone====
#{{User|NARCE}} As the proposal creator.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per proposal. I believe the articles would be better focused on the relationship between their respective series and Mario. Detailing all their character's Smash histories (which could get quite lengthy with something like Pokémon) would be better left in the List articles they currently are in.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per Sophie.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Per Soph
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Primary option; per Sophie, we worry about the length of some Smash sections, and we feel the organization is fine enough as it is right now for Smash-related subjects.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Sophie. I fully agree with making crossover articles to cover the relations another franchise has with Mario, but Smash in of itself is also a crossover and covering the details of these characters in a place that relates to Smash feels better.
#{{User|Arend}} Second option. I'm personally not a huge fan of loss of content, and this option allows this to be fully preserved by leaving it be. While I have been assured that the history sections will be preserved in a form better suited for the article and other details such as Classic Mode routes and stickers/trophies/spirits might be reimplemented, I'm still keeping this as a secondary option to be safe.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per Sophie.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Second opinion.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This proposal is pretty close to how I imagined covering ''Zelda'' subjects had ''[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/58#Determine The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening and its reissues as a guest appearance and create an article covering all three versions and/or its Mario-related subjects|Link's Awakening]]'' failed!
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|Salmancer}} Hmm, so I'm going to do this because technically each of a character's special moves gets a sentence to itself on their article/Smash list entry and those just aren't going to fit in a crossover article
#{{User|Pseudo}} Secondary choice.
#{{User|Weegie baby}} Yes.


====Oppose====
====Oppose: let's not implement crossover articles====
#{{User|Booderdash}}Useless, and thats way too strict. That would make us have to unfeature alot of our previous featured articles.


====Comments====
====Crossover comments====
Man, you make too many proposals x.x {{user|Tucayo}}
I also happened to start a [[User:PopitTart/Sandbox#Pikmin (franchise)|draft for a Pikmin series article]] the other day, inspired by Nintendo101's Zelda draft. It's in a much... '''much''' rougher state, but I hope it gives an idea what these crossover articles can provide.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 19:31, March 3, 2025 (EST)
:You can never have too many legitimate proposals. - [[User:NARCE|NARCE]] 16:45, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
::"Legitimate"? What's wrong with the FA standards now? Have you really seen FA's that actually do not follow at least one rule? And of those articles, which of them are currently or have been nominated for unfeaturing? We don't need to expand the rules, we understand the rules, and we have a excellent rule system for FA's. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}


===Set limit of proposals by a certain user===
{{@|Koopa con Carne}} thank you for the kind words! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:30, March 3, 2025 (EST)
Well, first of all, we have this for FA's, so why don't have it here? I now that will not convince you all, so I will detail it even more.<br>
:[[File:LinkCN.jpg|50px]] {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:32, March 4, 2025 (EST)
Please, take this in count, this is nothing personal against anyone.<br>


So, many of the proposals made are rather pointless, impossible, unprobable, or simply useless, so why not set a 2 proposal per person limit in order to avoid this? When one proposal passes/fails, then the proposer can propose another one. Simple.
Question: One of the proposed points is to "''Move'' details pertaining to Zelda from list articles on the site to this one", but the i.e. states that "all information pertaining to Sheik on the list of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee article would be ''cleared''". Characters on these fighter lists have extensive history sections; will these be moved to the crossover pages as well, or will these be nixed altogether?<br>Also, what about franchises which currently only have a connection with Mario through ''Smash Bros.'', such as ARMS? Will these get a crossover article as well or not? {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:10, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:I don't know. Perhaps we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Ultimately, very few of the franchises within ''Smash Bros.'' have only crossed-over with ''Mario'' within ''Smash Bros.'', and that was at the front of my mind for this proposal. ''ARMS'' is one of the few exceptions. I should probably make some sort of list to parse what other series and franchises are within that boat. But what would you want to see, {{@|Arend}}? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::I don't know... I'd understand not giving those an article given how they only crossover in ''Smash'', but it would be strange to do with ''ARMS'' considering it's probably the only franchise with such a distinction that is directly from Nintendo. I can see us making an exception and allowing a crossover article for ''ARMS'' regardless, considering how most of the ''ARMS'' development team is basically ''Mario Kart 8'' alumni anyway, but that same excuse probably wouldn't work with ''Kingdom Hearts''. Then again, maybe so few franchises would be left that we might as well make crossover pages for those anyway.<br>Anyway {{@|Nintendo101}}, you didn't answer my first question regarding the fighters' history sections on the fighter lists, so I ask again: would they be moved to the crossover pages as well, or be deleted altogether and not being covered at all? Knowing precisely what's going to happen to those (as the proposal hasn't really elaborated well on what will happen to those) is pivotal for me to pick which option to choose for, you see. That's kind of why I haven't voted yet. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:::I personally envisioned the history sections for each fighter being disseminated within history sections as described in this proposal (one section for ''Mario'', one section for the other franchise, and one section for mutual space where both franchises crossover together). Individual characters would not have the full history sections as present in those list articles, but the individual info would largely be preserved. (I did not think it was important to reiterate granular ''Smash Bros.'' info about Stickers, Trophies, Classic Mode routes, etc. because that seemed more about ''Zelda'' in ''Smash Bros.'' and less about ''Zelda'' with ''Mario'' in ''Smash Bros.'', but Hewer had reservations on that info being discarded, so maybe that can be reincorporated. But everything else, especially info outside of ''Smash Bros.'', would be retained.) For example, in my ''Zelda'' draft, [[User:Nintendo101/community garden#Ganon|Ganon]] is described under the "recurring crossover subject" section, and Ganondorf is mentioned in the relevant sections below where he shows up, like ''Super Mario Maker'', ''Mario Artist: Paint Studio'', ''Yoshi's Woolly World'', and the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. That info is just being presented alongside other relevant ''Zelda'' info in those games and others, and I suspect that is the type of info someone searching for "Ganondorf" on the Super Mario Wiki would be interested in. How does that sound? What do you think of the draft? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:16, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::::I suppose that works. So long as the content on the original pages is preserved (one way or another), I'm perfectly fine with this. Also, I think the draft looks amazing so far. There are a couple things missing of course (it is a draft, after all), but what is there is very well-detailed. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:16, March 5, 2025 (EST)
So is the ultimate plan for these to effectively be a replacement for the Smash list pages? I imagine the lists would start looking a bit barren if things on them get moved to crossover franchise articles. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:I am admittedly not a fan of the fighter list articles on the wiki and I think the information on them would be better served in articles more directly focused on the ''Super Mario'' franchise, both for readers and editors. However, I respect the will of those who would rather we keep those articles around. I am not sure if you looked at my ''Zelda'' draft, but it does omit more granular information specific to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, like stickers, trophies, Classic Mode routes, special moves, or NIOLs for individual characters. I would rather this article emphasize how ''Zelda'' engages with ''Mario'' in other contexts. If folks would rather Super Mario Wiki continue to hold onto the more granular ''Smash Bros.'' info on the fighter list articles, they could be retained for those purposes, I imagine. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:47, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::Well, there are two voting options for people who want both. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::I find Classic Mode routes in particular a bit odd to remove since they often involve Mario characters/stages/etc. (and I guess a similar argument could possibly be made for stickers), but I understand for the stuff with no particular Mario relevance.<br>Another thing I just thought of: we already have [[Pushmo (series)]] and [[Just Dance (series)]] as guest appearances, and [[Talk:List of references in Nintendo video games#Split Animal Crossing|this proposal]] passed to make a page for the Animal Crossing series (technically the proposal was just to make a page on the game, but every single voter agreed to do a series page instead). Would this proposal affect these pages? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:44, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:::I had touched base with some of the users involved in those proposals. I do personally think it would make sense for all of these articles to have similar structure to one another - I think that uniformity would make them easier for readers to jump between them and find what they are looking for. However, maybe {{@|Kaptain Skurvy}}, {{@|Nelsonic}}, and {{@|Mushzoom}} can provide their two cents. Would you want the ''Pushmo'', ''Just Dance'', and ''Animal Crossing'' articles be grandfathered into this proposal? It would just provide some structural guidelines and inform how redirects and disambiguation pages relevant to these series would be handled on the wiki. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::::Yeah, it would make sense to apply this to those articles for consistency (and Pushmo technically crosses over in Smash as well, as a spirit). So a list of franchises to split could look something like:<br>Major non-Smash crossovers ("major" meaning "would take more than a couple of sentences to fully explain"): The Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Sonic the Hedgehog, F-Zero, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Pikmin, Punch-Out!!, {{iw|rhythmheaven|WarioWare (series)|Rhythm Heaven}}, Kirby, Metroid, Excitebike, Pushmo, Just Dance, EarthBound, Kid Icarus, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Banjo-Kazooie, maybe Star Fox, maybe Duck Hunt, maybe [[Balloon Fighter|Balloon Fight]], maybe [[Bubbles (Clu Clu Land)|Clu Clu Land]], maybe Fire Emblem, maybe Street Fighter, maybe Ice Climber, maybe Bayonetta?, not sure if "Game & Watch" really counts as a franchise, Minecraft technically counts but would [[Minecraft|probably be redundant to split]]<br>Minor non-Smash crossovers and/or appearances only as amiibo costumes: Pokémon, Wii Fit, Xenoblade Chronicles<br>Minor non-Smash crossovers: Metal Gear, Castlevania, Tekken<br>No non-Smash crossovers: Persona, Fatal Fury, ARMS, Kingdom Hearts<br>I probably missed something. I'm assuming that franchises whose only crossover is non-fighter representation in Smash (like a stage or Assist Trophy or something) don't count. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 05:29, March 5, 2025 (EST)
::::Forgot about [[Starfy|The Legendary Starfy]], that would qualify. There's also [[I Choose You!]] from Mario Maker, which might barely push Pokémon up to "major". {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:13, March 5, 2025 (EST)
:{{@|Nintendo101}} Yes. This makes perfect sense, and the grandfathering approach would allow these series to get more mainstream attention, which is never a bad thing. New series with a significant amount of ''Super Mario'' content would also likely be considered for a crossover article as opposed to being relegated to the [[list of references in Nintendo video games]] or the [[list of references in third-party video games]]. Being placed on said lists works for games with small amounts of ''Super Mario'' content (i.e. ''{{wp|Drill Dozer}}'' or ''{{wp|Borderlands 2}}''), but doesn't for games with larger amounts of ''Super Mario'' content (i.e. [[Punch-Out!! (Wii)|''Punch-Out!!'']] or ''[[Mobile Golf]]''). [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 11:31, March 5, 2025 (EST)


'''Proposer''': {{User|Tucayo}}<br>
This is probably a separate proposal, but should the ''Link's Awakening'' article be outright merged with the new crossover one? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:14, March 6, 2025 (EST)
'''Voting start''': 14 July, 2010 18:00 GMT<br>
:Not an invalid idea, but I agree that is better the focus of a future proposal. This one does not address non-list articles. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:35, March 7, 2025 (EST)
'''Deadline''': 21 July, 2010 18:00 GMT


====Set proposal limit====
===Add headings for first topics of talk pages that lack one===
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per me
{{early notice|March 17, 2025}}
When users create a talk page, they don't always create a heading for their first topic. As a consequence, talk pages sometimes start with a discussion, then there's the table of contents (TOC) and then the remaining topics. For instance, this is the case for [[Gallery talk:Donkey Kong Card Game (trading cards)]].
It is ugly and inelegant, and it's even worse on mobile because this initial topic takes up a lot of vertical space and never gets collapsed; it is quite a pain having to scroll down an entire discussion just to access the TOC that lists the other topics.


====Allow infinite number of proposals by a certain proposer====
To solve this problem, I propose to add a heading at the top of the first topic of a talk page if it does not have one.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Sorry Tucky, but this really doesn't seem necessary. Users may have a few good ideas at a time that they wish to propose. They could be restricted by the limit. I understand that they could wait, but limiting proposals wouldn't stop people from making fake/pointless ones. Also, if it is fake/pointless, it should be removed, and if a user continually makes bad proposals, they can be warned or banned or something. From what I see here, you are just fed up with a certain user who made a few "bad" proposals above. Also whether or not a proposal is bad depends on the opinion of the person viewing/making it. Sorry, no way.
That way, the TOC will be at the top of the page (as it should be) and the first topic will be listed along with the other topics instead of being separated from them.


====Comments====
The title of the new headings could be "(First topic)", enclosed in parentheses to indicate that this was not a heading from the original poster; the heading title is open for discussion.
Using the FA rule as an example is terrible because the FA rule reinforces the notion that it is important to be acknowledged for your work with a gold star. - [[User:NARCE|NARCE]] 17:38, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
If this proposal passes, [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Gallery_talk:Donkey_Kong_Card_Game_(trading_cards)&oldid=4730155 the aforementioned page] would look [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:Jdtendo/Bacassab&oldid=4776920 like this].


Hmm...shorten the proposals per user? Do you mean, when '''his/her''' proposal passes/fails, he/she can add a new one right? In that case, I'm with this. Some proposals are pointless. But FAs aren't the good thing to compare with this. Cause' there are millions of articles!{{User|Mr bones}}
'''Proposer''': {{User|Jdtendo}}<br>
:Exactly :) Also, NARCE, your comment makes no sense. {{user|Tucayo}}
'''Deadline''': March 24, 2025, 23:59 GMT
::Good then, I'll wait til' tomorrow to vote!--[[User:Mr bones|Mr bones]] 18:18, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
::It makes no sense? Well, here's a q - what good reason exists to limit the number of FAs a person may have under their belt to three? - [[User:NARCE|NARCE]] 18:26, 13 July 2010 (UTC)


Okay, here is the answer. There are so many articles here. If a user creates 10 articles a day. Wouldn't that be a disaster?{{User|Mr bones}}
====Support: add a heading to first topic if it lacks one====
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per proposal
#{{User|Technetium}} Good idea
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems useful for navigation!
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Works for us, and would make it marginally easier to tell when a talk page should be split. Per proposal.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all! very good idea
#{{User|LadySophie17}} per all. That has always bothered me.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Very good to establish consistency.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all. Finally consistency.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|Weegie baby}} The fact there are no headings on the first topics of talk pages annoys me so much 😤
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Consistency is good.


YOu don't understand, is the number of FA's you can nominate. Not "have under your belt", as they are not yours. {{user|Tucayo}}
====Oppose: don't add headings to topics====


Do TPPs count? {{User|KS3}}
====Comments (first topic heading)====


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
 
''None at the moment.''
===Replace Super Mario Wiki's Logo===
Since the Logo is viewable from every page of the entire wiki, I think it should be replaced by something better. No offense to whoever created the current picture, but for me, it just doesn't fit. So, I created a possible alternative to it which you can see here: [http://img413.imageshack.us/f/mwnewlogo.png/]
It's a mix between Wikipedia's logo and Mario's head. I'm not saying that the current logo has to be replaced with my version, just that it has to be replaced. But if you all like my new logo, I wouldn't mind seeing it on the wiki.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nelde}}<br>
'''Voting start''': 4 July, 2010, 16:10<br>
'''Deadline''': 23:59, 13 July, 2010
 
====Support====
#{{User|Nelde}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|Nerfman2227}} I think the new logo is genius, and, personally, I don't think people would see the logo and say that we are affiliated w/ Wikipedia. Most people should immediately recognize Mario's trademark moustache.
#{{User|Damariogamr}} Not bad, but it looks a little more like Starship Mario. But that's not a complaint.
#{{User|Iamthedude}} This looks good. It may not get chosen, looks like we are a bit outnumbered. However, that logo up there has simply been there a little too long. Every company or website should change their logo at least once in their lifetime. Infact, I wonder if it is even necessary to put the words underneith it, this logo is so well made it describes what the site is without them- a version of wikipedia dedicated to Mario knowledge. Though I oppose the old logo, I give kudos to whoever made it. The background scenes combined with the logo in front is pretty genious.
#[[User:Lu-igi board|Lu-igi board]] per all. also, wikipedia's logo isn't copyrighted. the simpsons wiki for example uses it humourously.
#{{User|Platitudinous}} The old logo is kind of boring. I like the idea of a new logo.
#{{User|Legendkid48}} I agree with {{User|Platitudinous}}, the old one WAS dull!
#{{User|Tigertot}} Yes, I agree. The current logo is dull. In fact, we need a fresh new logo!
#{{User|D3bates}} I agree. The current logo is pretty good, but the effect of it is starting to wear out.
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|Commander Code-8}} I think the current logo is fine. And Per the users in the comments who believe that the new image basically copies Wikipedia.
#{{User|Twentytwofiftyseven}} We're not affiliated with Wikipedia. This logo will likely make many people new to the wiki think the opposite.
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! I get where you're comming from but even though the logo is original the current one we have is fine and original also. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. Also, since our logo is used in NIWA affairs, changing it requires a fair bit of effort all over the place, so unless something is so great that it just ''has'' to be our new logo, it would be best to stick with the current design.
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per 2257, per Walkazo, and per myself in the comments section.
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} Sadly, per all. "Wiki" itself is enough to make new people assume we are affiliated with the wiki. The logo looks nice, but it looks too similar to the Wikipedia logo.
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per all, including myself in the comments section below.
#{{User|KS3}} <s>Per everyone and everyone in the comments.</s> I will like it if we didn't use the "Wikipedia PKWiki Simpson-Wiki Starship-Mario-with-cracked-temple potatohead copywrited logo thingy" and if this occured a month later.
#{{User|BluePikminKong497}} Per Stoob.
#{{User|4DJONG}} Well, we are not affiliated with Wikipedia, and it looks somewhat like what would happen if Mario received a head-cracking head shot. Plus, we are not a ripoff of Wikipedia. Also, the current logo has only been there a few years, and it looks fine. It might need an update in two to three years, and remember, that is some time from now.
#{{User|Alexfusco5}} Maybe a new logo wouldn't be a terrible idea but the Wikipedia one is not a good alternative and I'm pretty sure its a copyvio
#{{User|LuigiMania}} Per all.
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per all.
#{{User|MeritC}} Per all. That logo itself that I see wouldn't be one that I'd recommend using.
#{{user|Mario jc}} Per all. Nice logo, Nelde, but the original is fine.
#{{User|M&SG}} &ndash; Image might look good, but there will be copyright issues if it gets used; logo is the property of Wikipedia, which the Mario Wiki isn't affiliated with.
#(Green Falcon) The current logo is too beautiful to be replaced.
#{{User|GalacticPetey}} per all, I don't like copycats. Its a cool image but per M&SG
#{{User|Paper Yoshi}} - Per all.
#{{User|Mario Fan 123}} - Great work! But... per all.
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} - Per Mario Fan 123.
#{{User|Gruffen}}- I am defenetly not against the logo but there will probably be a copyright lawsiut filed by Wikipedia since we are copying the logo.
#{{User|ChillGuy}} We do need a new logo but that one is a little bland.
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Lets not steal from Wikipedia. Also, I'm pretty sure that we changed the logo a few years ago. Anyways, I think this logo is fine for another year.
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per all.
#{{User|Mr bones}} This is just a matter of taste. Per all.
#{{User|Frostyfireyoshi}} Why, just why? As far as I know, the Wiki IS NOT related to Wikipedia, plus I'm sure that proposed logo is copyright infringement. Per all.
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} I don't hate the new logo, but the current one is more related to Mario, and more colourful and exciting.
#{{User|MechaWave}} No. Just... no.
#{{User|YoshiEgg}} I really like it, but I like the current one better.
#{{User|MoomooYoshi}}Per Green Falcon
#{{User|Big Shot}} Yeah, this current logo works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
#{{User|Somebody500}} Cool image, but I per all.
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} Congrats on the work you did! But, unfortunately, it looks too much Wikipedish. I said that originality is nice. I won't say it again.
#{{User|T.c.w7468}} Per all.
#{{User|Red Mario}} Per all. Wikipedia sucks and we can't dare to look them. Besides, this logo is really good already.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} Look, somebody took Starship Mario, put it in Photoshop or something, and made it look like piece-of-Pianta-poo wikipedia. Per all. No way.
 
====Comments====
This was really a hard one to decide on. I personally am in favor of the idea of replacing the logo but not with the proposed logo. {{User|Gruffen}}
 
I like originality, though. I think the current logo is fine too. But, it's a matter of taste, not objective facts. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
 
Personally, I don't like borrowing logos. I mean, the logo you created was borrowed from wikipedia and Mario's face was borrowed from Starship Mario. Besides, that Mario head is creepy, in my opinion. Make the Mario head a mushroom, and I'll be happy! {{User|LeftyGreenMario}}
:@LeftyGreenMario: Which Mario head do you mean? The one above the mushroom emblem? {{User|Nelde}}
 
:The whole logo is Mario's head with pieces flying away at the top. {{User|LeftyGreenMario}}
 
It reminds me of the logo of Earthbound Wiki (anyone at NIWA should know this)
{{unsigned|KS3}}
 
Er... is it just me or does the lower left of the picture have the Pikmin logo from brawl? {{User|LuigiMania}}
 
I am Zero! @LuigiMania: That is Daisy's emblem. At first I thought this was a joke proposal, but I like the originality also, but that logo will do better if when you enter the SMW it will be similar to Wikipedia, instead of the main page, a page with nothing but that logo and a search bar if you understand. Zero signing out. {{User|Zero777}}
:@Zero: So basically [http://www.wikipedia.org this]? BTW, I like the logo but the current logo is just as good - logos are logos; they all depict different things but pretty much all work. May I also suggest that if this proposal does not pass, you make a personal Monobook.css page and then implement your logo? {{User|Marioguy1}}
 
It's a fine logo - I personally like it - but I agree with LeftyGreenMario. I think we should run this by Porplemontage/Steve - the wiki's creator. {{User|Bowser's luma}}
 
I don't really have a problem with our old logo. 'tis fine. A logo is a statement about a website, and your logo basically states "Look here, we are a rip-off of Wikipedia!". I don't want to be a rip-off of Wikipedia, though. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
 
You know, if you don't like the logo, you can just change it in your [[Special:Mypage/Monobook.css|monobook]]. -- {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
 
His logo is freaking awesome.  {{User|Booderdash}}
 
Well, @Edofenrir: I agree, and I still think this logo is inappropriate because there are 5 year olds on the wiki, the proposed logo looks like Mario is receiving a head-cracking head-shot with no blood. {{User|4DJONG}}
 
It looks like Starship Mario, Earthbound Wiki's logo, and Wikipedia's logo combined. {{unsigned|KS3}}
 
I feel that the image should be replaced, but not with that. The current one feels cluttered and unfocused, yet the proposed one looks awkward and unMario-like. I would think that it would be nice to see a cycling main image, such as cycling between various identifiable protagonists and antagonists - ie, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Luigi, DK, Yoshi, Wario, Waluigi, Toad, and Daisy. - [[User:NARCE|NARCE]] 05:46, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 
@Baby Mario Bloops, the logo was changed sometime during 2008-2009. It can be found on [[Mariowiki:Userbox]], as the "Nostalgic user" userbox created by Tucayo. {{User|Frostyfireyoshi}}
 
 
You guys, this is not a proposal about replacing our current logo with that potatoman (no offense to whoever made it on the potatoman part), this is a proposal about replacing the logo in general. For example, I whipped up [http://i31.tinypic.com/nfikxk.jpg this monstrosity]. {{User|Homestar Runner}}
 
[[File:SuperMarioWiki.png]]<br>
Hi everyone. I am WarioSuperstar (brother of patroller Arend) and I created our logo, but I don't think it is a perfect logo. I have only one reason for my opinion, because our logo is not a really logo. It is just a '''picture''' with Super Mario Wiki on it. All the other NIWA wikis have real logos. A logo has to be simple, functional and timeless. Our logo isn't perfect so I made a new logo for our wiki. What do you think about this? I think it is simple, functional and it's a real logo.
{{unsigned|Arend}}
:Dude, that logo ROCKS. {{User|BluePikminKong497}}
::[[File:ExampleStupidNewLogo.png|thumb]]Why thank you! Here is a picture of how it would look if it would be used. But if I look at the results of this proposal, there will not come a new logo. ''Signed by WarioSuperstar, brother of {{User|Arend}}''
 
For some reason, I just don't think it looks good in the corner there. I don't know why. I might just need to get used to it... {{User|Fawfulfury65}}
:Well, my logo does have a really red colour. That may be the reason why you think it doesn't look good. Also I used Internet Explorer in this screenshot, but in Firefox or Google Chrome it would probably look better because of the rounded boxes. I also recommend looking at the full size of the picture if you only watched the small preview. It will look a bit different. EDIT: I toned down the (dark) red colour of the logo. ''Signed by WarioSuperstar, brother of {{User|Arend}}''
 
::That logo looks a lot better than the one we have currently! {{User|LeftyGreenMario}}
:::Okay, I admit that is better than this current one in many ways, but I think that our logo still has life to this wiki to last another six months or so. I just don't think is the time to change our logo yet. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
 
I'm not against changing the logo, I think we do need something that we can easily be recognised by, not just a picture with 'Super Mario Wiki' on it, although I'm against that Mario head that looks like the Wikipedia logo. I don't like the colour and its just generally ugly (no offence to the guy who made it). I like the red mario cap logo above a LOT more, it just needs modifying on some way so it won't look so out of place in the corner. {{User|Windspyro}}
 
[[File:SuperMarioWikiLogo.png]]<br>
[[File:ExampleStupidNewLogo2.png|thumb|Check out the full view!]]Hey people! WarioSuperstar here again. Baby Mario Bloobs said "I just don't think is the time to change our logo yet." I agree with his statement. It can still go a few months. But if we want a new logo for our Mario Wiki, it should be changed on a good date. For example on August 13 (the Mario Wiki anniversary) or January 1 (New Year), but not on a random day. Fafulfury and Windspyro both said the new logo looked out of place in the corner. I keep modifying the logo so it won't look out of place. But after 2 to 3 hours working on it, I simply came to the conclusion that you need to get used to the logo because Mario Wiki always had a square logo in the corner, but the new logo is totally different. ''Signed by WarioSuperstar, brother of {{User|Arend}}''
::I do reason with that logic and all, and the new one right above this message is really amazing and all. Yet, I really don't know what Porple has in mind, and really it is up to him about this topic. And, It's Bloops not bloobs (lol). {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}
::: You are right Bloops. I guess only the highest ranked users of Mario Wiki can decided which logo will be used on the Mario Wiki and on top of that, most users don't see the point of changing the logo (see the proposal results). But as you probably already noticed, designing logos is really a passion of mine and I got a bit carried away. And sorry for misspelling your name (and Fawfulfury's name). ''Signed by WarioSuperstar, brother of {{User|Arend}}''
 
Whoa this logo down here looks TONS better! [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]] 19:58, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 
Where's my logo? {{User|Birdo beauties}}
 
=====Broader Process=====
I feel that if we want a new logo, we need to invoke a much broader process to change it because the randomly proposing logos here will ''not'' work.  If it is decided we need a new logo, then it must be done on a separate page with a process specific to creating a new logo.  Any method involving a logo change on this page will be a mess that won't get anything done. {{User|Alexfusco5}}
:How about the sandbox? {{User|KS3}}
 
===TPPs on Main Page===
A week or two ago their were no proposals up so nothing appeared on the proposal box on the main page, so I propose when that happens then we should put the TPPs into the proposal box on the main page when no proposals are made. See when their are no proposals then the box is blank with nothing in it except "No proposals at the time", to a visitors point of view a blank box only saying that looks obscure and unprofessional, it make it look like if we don't do that much to better improve the SMW.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Zero777}}<br>
'''Voting start''': 6 July, 2010 15:30<br>
'''Deadline''': 13 July, 2010 15:30
 
====Support====
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Per proposal. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Commander Code-8}} Per the proposal.
#{{User|KS3}} Per proposal and Coincollector's comment.
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - I like the idea, and it will show us the TPP's that are currently out. That will be a lot easier than having to go to here just to click the link to the talk page.
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} - Per proposal.
#{{User|Mr bones}} Per Zero.
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} I disagree because when it says there are no propals, it made me think that when a visitor would see that, they would know that the wiki is in a "time of peace," somewhat, where there really isn't anything major to be fixed/removed/added. It would show to me that this is a stable wiki where things are running smoothly.
 
====Comments====
I'd vote and support but I'm not to sure about the time as I'm Austraian. I'll wait till tomorrow. {{User|Commander Code-8}}
 
I'm not entirely sure if switching back and forth between two different topics depending on if there is a current proposal or not will make us look any more professional. It might seem random and confusing to guests to see a proposal on one day, and a list of things on the other. Maybe that's just me, tough, I probably need to see it in practice. - {{User|Edofenrir}}
:Maybe we should have a section underneath the proposal about the TPPs. {{User|KS3}}
::No, that would add needless clutter to have Proposals ''and'' TPPs on the Main Page. Maybe we should just choose one TPP (the one ending soonest) and make a blurb about it on the main page as if it were a regular proposal: then the template would be consistent and almost always in use: everyone gets what they want. - {{User|Walkazo}}
:::I am Zero! @Walkazo, no I'm not saying to add the TPPs into the proposal box while a proposal is there, I'm saying when their are no proposals then we put the TPP list in. Zero signing out. {{User|Zero777}}
::::I knew that: my opening comment was addressing ''KS3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s suggestion to have both. - {{User|Walkazo}}
 
Erm... what ARE TPPs? {{User|LuigiMania}}
:Milk shake those abbreviations. It's Talk Page Proposals. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}}
Do you ever remember that I had the same idea before? [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Template:Proposal&oldid=719029] For some reason Steve removed it despite the question. {{User|Coincollector}}
:And if you click "Older revision" it still has it? Coincollector, it's been on there for a long time. {{unsigned|KS3}}
::@KS3: Well, duh, everything that has been changed on any article is in "Older revision" no matter if it is removed later. It is an edit, not an entire page removable and then recreated. If Porple deleted it, then he had a reason for it. {{User|Baby Mario Bloops}}

Latest revision as of 11:31, March 15, 2025

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Saturday, March 15th, 21:26 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple sub-issues that can be resolved independently of each other. In a poll proposal, each option is essentially its own mini-proposal with a deadline and Support/Oppose subheadings. The rules above apply to each option as if it were a its a two-option proposal: users may vote Support or Oppose on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then the status quo wins for that option by default. A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

A poll proposal is archived after all of its options have settled, and it is listed as one single proposal in the archive. It is considered to have "passed" if one or more options were approved by voters (resulting in a change from the status quo), and it is considered to have "failed" if all options were rejected by voters and no change in the status quo was made.

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)
Merge intro/outro sections, rename Gameplay section to "Overview" for Mario Party minigame articles, ToxBoxity64 (ended March 1, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy, Waluigi Time (ended February 8, 2025)
Split Animal Crossing (game), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)
Split the modes in the Battles page, Mario (ended February 15, 2025)
Count ongoing serialized comics for latest appearances, Rykitu (ended March 2, 2025)
Split Toad wearing headphones off from Jammin' Toad, PrincessPeachFan (ended March 7, 2025)
Split Super Mario Maker helmets from Buzzy Shell and Spiny Shell (red), PopitTart (ended March 12, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Establish a format for poll proposals on the archive lists

Something that's slipped through the cracks when we invented poll proposals was what we do when we add them to these pages. We can't simply have one link to the poll proposal — the entire purpose of the format is that different parts of it can pass and fail independently of one another. What color do we put a proposal where one thing fails and another thing succeeds in?

I have several pitches for you.

OPTION ZERO
Do nothing. I'm putting this at the front because I want to leave room for any good-sounding solutions beyond the four I'm about to suggest. It's here on the proposal at all because I'm pretty sure I'm legally obligated to put it here, but I'll be honest — I'm not entirely sure what this winning would... mean. Our hand will eventually be forced when our first poll proposal fully resolves, so a format will be established one way or the other.

EDIT: It has been helpfully pointed out that there is a current policy — they are red if they all issues fail, gray if at least one passes and is unimplemented, and green if at least one passes and all issues are implemented. A "one issue changes the color" kind of rule. It's definitely not insensible, but I feel that we could be conveying more information. Still, even if this if the "fail option", we have a policy now, so I got what I wanted even if this one wins.

OPTION ONE
The different issues of a poll proposal share a number corresponding to when the first issue closes. They're listed separately, and distinguished from each other via letters. As an example, the three parts of the Brown Yoshi proposal would slot in at #83A, #83B, and #83C. (That would shove some other proposals down; we could also just append them to the end of the list like normal and brush off the inconsistency if y'all prefer.)

The Brown Yoshi proposal is also a handy demonstration of an edge case we have to contend with — if this proposal passed right now, we would list #83A as red and #83B as gray, but what would happen with #83C, which is still ongoing? This is the aspect on which Options One and Two differ. In Option One, issues are not added to the archive page until they close. The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later

I would like to note that the Brown Yoshi proposal is a remarkably well-behaved example. If the issues were ordered differently, we may at one point have #83A and #83C on the list with no #83B until later.

OPTION TWO
Option Two is identical to Option One except in how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals. In this option, they are added to the list alongside the other issues, and marked with a new color — let's say black.

This prevents the awkward gaps we would be susceptible to in Option One, but it is introducing a whole color for a temporary edge case.

OPTION THREE
Option Three is simpler. We create a new color in the archive for poll proposals — I guess let's say black again. Poll proposals get added to the archive when all issues on them are closed.

This saves space (the other options will have to give fourteen entries to this proposal, but it means the entry on the list doesn't reflect anything about any individual issue's status, such as whether it's been implemented or not.

EDIT: Camwoodstock's pitch below of using three colors (and, implicitly, adding the poll proposal to the archive when it has any closed issues) doesn't entirely eliminate that negative, but it does seem much more useful than just having the one color.

OPTION FOUR
Option Four is simpler still. Each issue is treated as if it were an entirely separate proposal. Each gets numbered and appended to the list when it closes regardless of what anything else in the poll proposal is up to.

The negative of this way of doing it is that the issues of a poll proposal may end up strewn about the list in a way that doesn't really reflect that they're a related thing.

Proposer: Ahemtoday (talk)
Deadline: March 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option Zero

  1. Jdtendo (talk) Per Porple "Steve" Montage in the comments.
  2. Waluigi Time (talk) Per Porple.
  3. EvieMaybe (talk) perple montage
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Porple in the comments, though admittedly this is more of a secondary option to our more robust version of Option Three we pitched. Status quo isn't the worst thing in the world, and we do acknowledge our more robust solution of "dark colors" may be a bit harder to convey as we've been slowly rolling out... Well, a dark mode for the whole wiki. (If it was down to us, the poll proposals would use lighter colors in dark mode, before you ask; of course, if that option somehow wins, we'd be down to help fine-tune it.)
  5. Arend (talk) Per Porple.
  6. Nintendo101 (talk) Per porplemontage.
  7. Salmancer (talk) Oh, huh. I suppose this is a solved problem then.

Option One

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) It's either this or Option Two for me — it's important to me that the issues end up next to each other on the archive and that the status of each one is visible on the page.
  2. Salmancer (talk) There's no rule saying a poll proposal has to be for small things, since part of the premise was reducing the need for large numbers of combination options. There could be poll proposals that have wide scopes, and as such I think we're going to have to stomach the poll proposals with 10+ proposals in them to make it easier to track policy without thumbing through old proposal pages. Also an archive is for the past, not the present.

Option Two

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) See my note about Option One.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary option, but we do think darker shades of the colors (a-la our pitch for Option Three) would be nice. Helps distinguish at a glance what was a poll proposal.

Option Three

  1. Camwoodstock (talk) We would like to pitch a more sophisticated variant of this; 3 new colors. One for a poll that has concluded, one for one that's partially ongoing, and one for a poll that has been partially overturned by a future proposal. Maybe dark green, dark gray/maybe a de-saturated dark green a-la the Shroom Spotlight template, and a dark yellow? The darker colors, of course, to contrast with the non-poll proposals. (On dark mode, we'd probably make these lighter, rather than darker, provided we actually even add dark mode compatibility to the proposal archive colors.)
  2. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  3. Ahemtoday (talk) I definitely see the appeal in having poll proposals under a singular listing, but I think they'd be better served by having one or multiple new colors rather than using the standard red and green.

#Jdtendo (talk) Listing every single poll would probably take a lot of space whereas the whole purpose of a poll proposal is bringing together many similar polls that would be too cumbersome to handle separately. I would prefer having a single proposal listed as "Determine what memes should be on the Internet references page" that users can click on to check the detailed results rather than cluttering the list with a dozen links.

Option Four

Comments

@Camwoodstock — I definitely think your pitch for Option Three is better than the version I was suggesting. I'm not really sure about the pitch for Option Two, though — the letters already distinguish them, and I feel like they'd seem more like separate states rather than a "modifier" on some of the existing ones. Not to mention, wouldn't we need a darker version of every single color just in case? That's a lot of changes to make, and we'd end up running into problems with dark blue, teal, and dark teal; or "dark white", gray, and dark gray. Ahemtoday (talk) 03:20, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I don't quite understand option one and two, as the above rules for poll proposals state "A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done." --PopitTart (talk) 07:09, March 4, 2025 (EST)

Could you explain the contradiction in greater detail? I don't see what you mean. Ahemtoday (talk) 12:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
The options say "The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later" and "...how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals" there shouldn't be any instances of archiving partially closed poll proposals, they only close all at once when every entry has been resolved.--PopitTart (talk) 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
So is your position that we should use the lettering scheme from Options One and Two, but only add poll proposals to the archive page when all of their issues are closed? I don't think I agree, but I can add that as Option Five if that's what you want to vote for. Ahemtoday (talk) 22:48, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I feel like this is fine. Either it's red (no change from the status quo so nothing needs to be done), gray (some change was established and there is work to do), or green (some change was established and it's all done). There are other proposals where people list several things to be done, it's not that different, it's just that now we have the ability to vote on each individual thing. But in either case you just click the link to read exactly what was approved. --Steve (talk) Get Firefox 10:56, March 7, 2025 (EST)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Introducing the crossover article

The passing of this proposal would accomplish seven things:

  1. See the publication of the drafted Zelda article discussed in this proposal, titled "crossovers with The Legend of Zelda." (The draft can be viewed here.)
  2. Funnel redirects and disambiguation pages pertaining to Zelda on the wiki to the published Zelda article (i.e., searches for The Legend of Zelda, Octoroks, etc. Fully covered crossover subjects like Link would keep their articles, and this would not preclude a crossover subject from receiving an article of their own in the future if warranted, such as the inclusion of Princess Zelda in a future Mario Tennis or something like that).
  3. Move details pertaining to Zelda from list articles on the site to this one (i.e. all information pertaining to Sheik on the list of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee article would be cleared, and searching for "Sheik" on the site would bring you to this article. Zelda info on the list of references in Nintendo video games article would similarly be cleared. Visitors to that article would be directed towards the published Zelda one when they reach that section of the list article).
  4. Establish a navbox for crossover articles (either a wholly dedicated one, an incorporation into "Template:Culture," or a retooling of "Template:Crossover characters").
  5. Establish the precedent where this can be done for other IPs with which the Super Mario franchise has crossed-over.
  6. Establish a 'Crossover article" section to the MarioWiki:Manual of Style that explains the framework for crossover articles described below. This is to be the standard structure for how other articles are to be structured.
  7. Note that this framework exists on the the crossover section of our coverage policy, and provide a link directing readers to it.

The Super Mario franchise is very much the IP tentpole for Nintendo Co., Ltd. and at least one of the ones for the Japanese video game industry as a whole. Consequently, Super Mario as a franchise and brand has crossed-over with many other franchises, brands, and series over its nearly fifty years of existence - not only sister series developed by Nintendo EAD and R&D, and their successor EPD (i.e. Duck Hunt, Punch-Out!!, Exictebike, Metroid, F-ZERO, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Splatoon, etc.) and those of their external creative partners (i.e. Ape Inc.'s EarthBound, HAL Laboratory's Kirby, Game Freak's Pokémon, etc.), but also fellow ones from other studios like Square Enix, Sega, Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Chunsoft, Ubisoft, Konami, and Hudson Soft. This is not groundbreaking news: Most folks interested in gaming history already know this, especially the curators of the Super Mario Wiki. However, I do not feel like we handle this information particularly well on the site.

A lot of coverage of Super Mario references, homages, allusions, and cameos are nestled within various list articles, inexplicitly at the end of dedicated game articles, or in Super Smash Bros. articles with which there seemed to have been effort to bury on the site and are not wholly about Super Smash Bros. anyways. This coverage, exasperated by recent efforts to reduce coverage on the Super Smash Bros. series: (1.) obfuscates the fact that Super Mario has made references and is referenced in many other franchises outside of Smash Bros. contexts, often in very meaningful ways that are interesting and fun to read about; (2.) mitigates how Mario has been an influence behind some of these other franchises; and (3.) makes finding some bits of information just very difficult. If I, as a visitor of the site, wanted to understand scenarios where Splatoon and Mario have crossed-over, I would not have an easy way to find that all in one place, and I think that is a shame.

frog man!
green lad!

To better cover and consolidate crossover info on the site, I have been drafting what I would like to call a "crossover article" using The Legend of Zelda franchise as an example (with contributions from Salmancer, DryBonesBandit, Memelord2020, RHG1951, LeftyGreenMario, and LadySophie17, and feedback from Super Mario RPG, Doc von Schmeltwick, and Koopa con Carne). This is a long article, and it is not wholly completed yet, but I think it is serviceable example of what I would like us to do going forward. Crossover articles take inspiration from the universe articles from our affiliate Smash Wiki and, as apparent in the Zelda draft, consist of the following sections:

  • Overview : A brief description of what the crossover franchise/series is for those not well versed in the subject and would like to know a little more about it without visiting another site, and how this relates to Mario. It is the create a foundation so the reader is not confused by descriptions or terminology in the other areas of the article. For Zelda, this section may be a bit lengthier than it would be for others because Mario had a lot of direct influence on Zelda as a series.
  • Recurring crossover subjects: for subjects like characters, enemies, bosses, or items that make substantial appearances in or alongside Mario-related media, such as subjects that used to have their own articles on the site. Each subject would be briefly explained so readers understand who they are when mentioned in other parts of the article, have explicit conceptual or design connections with Mario highlighted, and summarize areas where they specifically crossover with Mario.
  • History in the Super Mario franchise: a history section for where the crossover subject is referenced in the Super Mario franchise itself.
  • History in the subject series/franchise: a history section for the inverse, where Super Mario is referenced in the franchise subject of the article. In this case, it is Zelda.
  • Shared history (if applicable): a history section for mutual space where both subjects appear, such as the Super Smash Bros. series, Tetris series, NES Remix series, or other media.

Zelda is uniquely related to Mario and nearly as old, but crossover articles can be written for smaller franchises/series as well. The only requirement for a series/franchise to receive an article of its own is for it to directly crossover with Super Mario within an officially licensed capacity. Articles of this nature should not be written for series/franchise that simply make homages to Super Mario or have elements inspired by it, such as Celeste, Gears of War, or Astro Bot.

I offer three options:

  1. Support: I like the idea of crossover articles and want to see them implemented as described.
  2. Support: I like the idea of crossover articles, but list articles for the Super Smash Bros. series should be left alone.
  3. Oppose: I do not like the idea of the crossover article and do not want to see them implemented.

I know this was a long one, folks. Sorry about that, but the ideas behind this idea are multifaceted. Please let me know if you need additional clarity on anything or if you have any recommended amendments. (Also, if you would like, I welcome you to contribute to the drafted Zelda article! It is in my "community garden" sandbox for a reason.)

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: March 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: let's implement crossover articles!

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Link costume pose in Super Mario Maker
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer.
  3. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per proposal with absolutely no second thought. Aside from the obvious value such articles would bring, this practice may incidentally just be the silver bullet for the community's differences on how to cover Smash Bros. content. Nintendo101, even with your inspiration from SmashWiki, I'd say you still managed to think out of the box here.
  4. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  5. EvieMaybe (talk) been waiting a long time for this one. per proposal!
  6. LadySophie17 (talk) Secondary choice, I suppose. Better than no article.
  7. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary option; we'd rather these articles exist, even if the Smash coverage is confusing, than these articles not exist at all.
  8. PopitTart (talk) It has always felt absurd to me that Captain Olimar's presence on the wiki is entirely an entry in List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, despite being directly based on Mario himself and having appearances in Luigi's Mansion, WarioWare: D.I.Y., Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World, Mario Kart 8, and WarioWare Move It!
  9. Jdtendo (talk) Crossover articles are a great idea, and if it can also declutter Smash Bros. list articles, it's even better.
  10. Arend (talk) As long as the content from the list pages are preserved in SOME way or another, I am perfectly fine with this. I think this is a great idea, and the well-detailed draft really sold me on this.
  11. Nelsonic (talk) Makes perfect sense.
  12. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Sounds good to me.
  13. Shy Guy on Wheels (talk) Per all. death to the smash bros lists
  14. Mario (talk) Those list pages are a spaghetti of sadness, mama mia. I love the idea of these crossover pages, wonderful idea (similar to those decade splits for the gallery pages), and they're going to be a massive step up from that mess we currently have. I don't want to keep those lists at all. Their tolerated existence makes our wiki look bad, although absolutely delicious, if you ask me.
  15. OmegaRuby (talk) The list pages are an abhorrent sight and I'd much rather have Smash information contained in these respective crossover articles - if that proves too large for the size of the existing article, then the next logical step would be a subpage for Smash Bros. information, would it not? Per all.
  16. Pseudo (talk) I love how you've put this together, Nintendo101 and other contributors! This seems like a very valuable addition to the wiki.
  17. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per all.

Support: let's implement crossover articles, but leave Smash Bros. lists alone

  1. LadySophie17 (talk) Per proposal. I believe the articles would be better focused on the relationship between their respective series and Mario. Detailing all their character's Smash histories (which could get quite lengthy with something like Pokémon) would be better left in the List articles they currently are in.
  2. Sparks (talk) Per Sophie.
  3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per Soph
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Primary option; per Sophie, we worry about the length of some Smash sections, and we feel the organization is fine enough as it is right now for Smash-related subjects.
  5. Tails777 (talk) Per Sophie. I fully agree with making crossover articles to cover the relations another franchise has with Mario, but Smash in of itself is also a crossover and covering the details of these characters in a place that relates to Smash feels better.
  6. Arend (talk) Second option. I'm personally not a huge fan of loss of content, and this option allows this to be fully preserved by leaving it be. While I have been assured that the history sections will be preserved in a form better suited for the article and other details such as Classic Mode routes and stickers/trophies/spirits might be reimplemented, I'm still keeping this as a secondary option to be safe.
  7. Okapii (talk) Per Sophie.
  8. Nelsonic (talk) Second opinion.
  9. LinkTheLefty (talk) This proposal is pretty close to how I imagined covering Zelda subjects had Link's Awakening failed!
  10. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.
  11. Salmancer (talk) Hmm, so I'm going to do this because technically each of a character's special moves gets a sentence to itself on their article/Smash list entry and those just aren't going to fit in a crossover article
  12. Pseudo (talk) Secondary choice.
  13. Weegie baby (talk) Yes.

Oppose: let's not implement crossover articles

Crossover comments

I also happened to start a draft for a Pikmin series article the other day, inspired by Nintendo101's Zelda draft. It's in a much... much rougher state, but I hope it gives an idea what these crossover articles can provide.--PopitTart (talk) 19:31, March 3, 2025 (EST)

@Koopa con Carne thank you for the kind words! - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:30, March 3, 2025 (EST)

Link -- KOOPA CON CARNE 11:32, March 4, 2025 (EST)

Question: One of the proposed points is to "Move details pertaining to Zelda from list articles on the site to this one", but the i.e. states that "all information pertaining to Sheik on the list of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee article would be cleared". Characters on these fighter lists have extensive history sections; will these be moved to the crossover pages as well, or will these be nixed altogether?
Also, what about franchises which currently only have a connection with Mario through Smash Bros., such as ARMS? Will these get a crossover article as well or not? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 12:10, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I don't know. Perhaps we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Ultimately, very few of the franchises within Smash Bros. have only crossed-over with Mario within Smash Bros., and that was at the front of my mind for this proposal. ARMS is one of the few exceptions. I should probably make some sort of list to parse what other series and franchises are within that boat. But what would you want to see, @Arend? - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I don't know... I'd understand not giving those an article given how they only crossover in Smash, but it would be strange to do with ARMS considering it's probably the only franchise with such a distinction that is directly from Nintendo. I can see us making an exception and allowing a crossover article for ARMS regardless, considering how most of the ARMS development team is basically Mario Kart 8 alumni anyway, but that same excuse probably wouldn't work with Kingdom Hearts. Then again, maybe so few franchises would be left that we might as well make crossover pages for those anyway.
Anyway @Nintendo101, you didn't answer my first question regarding the fighters' history sections on the fighter lists, so I ask again: would they be moved to the crossover pages as well, or be deleted altogether and not being covered at all? Knowing precisely what's going to happen to those (as the proposal hasn't really elaborated well on what will happen to those) is pivotal for me to pick which option to choose for, you see. That's kind of why I haven't voted yet. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I personally envisioned the history sections for each fighter being disseminated within history sections as described in this proposal (one section for Mario, one section for the other franchise, and one section for mutual space where both franchises crossover together). Individual characters would not have the full history sections as present in those list articles, but the individual info would largely be preserved. (I did not think it was important to reiterate granular Smash Bros. info about Stickers, Trophies, Classic Mode routes, etc. because that seemed more about Zelda in Smash Bros. and less about Zelda with Mario in Smash Bros., but Hewer had reservations on that info being discarded, so maybe that can be reincorporated. But everything else, especially info outside of Smash Bros., would be retained.) For example, in my Zelda draft, Ganon is described under the "recurring crossover subject" section, and Ganondorf is mentioned in the relevant sections below where he shows up, like Super Mario Maker, Mario Artist: Paint Studio, Yoshi's Woolly World, and the Super Smash Bros. series. That info is just being presented alongside other relevant Zelda info in those games and others, and I suspect that is the type of info someone searching for "Ganondorf" on the Super Mario Wiki would be interested in. How does that sound? What do you think of the draft? - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:16, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I suppose that works. So long as the content on the original pages is preserved (one way or another), I'm perfectly fine with this. Also, I think the draft looks amazing so far. There are a couple things missing of course (it is a draft, after all), but what is there is very well-detailed. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 06:16, March 5, 2025 (EST)

So is the ultimate plan for these to effectively be a replacement for the Smash list pages? I imagine the lists would start looking a bit barren if things on them get moved to crossover franchise articles. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I am admittedly not a fan of the fighter list articles on the wiki and I think the information on them would be better served in articles more directly focused on the Super Mario franchise, both for readers and editors. However, I respect the will of those who would rather we keep those articles around. I am not sure if you looked at my Zelda draft, but it does omit more granular information specific to the Super Smash Bros. series, like stickers, trophies, Classic Mode routes, special moves, or NIOLs for individual characters. I would rather this article emphasize how Zelda engages with Mario in other contexts. If folks would rather Super Mario Wiki continue to hold onto the more granular Smash Bros. info on the fighter list articles, they could be retained for those purposes, I imagine. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:47, March 4, 2025 (EST)
Well, there are two voting options for people who want both. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I find Classic Mode routes in particular a bit odd to remove since they often involve Mario characters/stages/etc. (and I guess a similar argument could possibly be made for stickers), but I understand for the stuff with no particular Mario relevance.
Another thing I just thought of: we already have Pushmo (series) and Just Dance (series) as guest appearances, and this proposal passed to make a page for the Animal Crossing series (technically the proposal was just to make a page on the game, but every single voter agreed to do a series page instead). Would this proposal affect these pages? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:44, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I had touched base with some of the users involved in those proposals. I do personally think it would make sense for all of these articles to have similar structure to one another - I think that uniformity would make them easier for readers to jump between them and find what they are looking for. However, maybe @Kaptain Skurvy, @Nelsonic, and @Mushzoom can provide their two cents. Would you want the Pushmo, Just Dance, and Animal Crossing articles be grandfathered into this proposal? It would just provide some structural guidelines and inform how redirects and disambiguation pages relevant to these series would be handled on the wiki. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
Yeah, it would make sense to apply this to those articles for consistency (and Pushmo technically crosses over in Smash as well, as a spirit). So a list of franchises to split could look something like:
Major non-Smash crossovers ("major" meaning "would take more than a couple of sentences to fully explain"): The Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Sonic the Hedgehog, F-Zero, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Pikmin, Punch-Out!!, Rhythm Heaven, Kirby, Metroid, Excitebike, Pushmo, Just Dance, EarthBound, Kid Icarus, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Banjo-Kazooie, maybe Star Fox, maybe Duck Hunt, maybe Balloon Fight, maybe Clu Clu Land, maybe Fire Emblem, maybe Street Fighter, maybe Ice Climber, maybe Bayonetta?, not sure if "Game & Watch" really counts as a franchise, Minecraft technically counts but would probably be redundant to split
Minor non-Smash crossovers and/or appearances only as amiibo costumes: Pokémon, Wii Fit, Xenoblade Chronicles
Minor non-Smash crossovers: Metal Gear, Castlevania, Tekken
No non-Smash crossovers: Persona, Fatal Fury, ARMS, Kingdom Hearts
I probably missed something. I'm assuming that franchises whose only crossover is non-fighter representation in Smash (like a stage or Assist Trophy or something) don't count. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 05:29, March 5, 2025 (EST)
Forgot about The Legendary Starfy, that would qualify. There's also I Choose You! from Mario Maker, which might barely push Pokémon up to "major". Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:13, March 5, 2025 (EST)
@Nintendo101 Yes. This makes perfect sense, and the grandfathering approach would allow these series to get more mainstream attention, which is never a bad thing. New series with a significant amount of Super Mario content would also likely be considered for a crossover article as opposed to being relegated to the list of references in Nintendo video games or the list of references in third-party video games. Being placed on said lists works for games with small amounts of Super Mario content (i.e. Drill Dozer or Borderlands 2), but doesn't for games with larger amounts of Super Mario content (i.e. Punch-Out!! or Mobile Golf). Nelsonic (talk) 11:31, March 5, 2025 (EST)

This is probably a separate proposal, but should the Link's Awakening article be outright merged with the new crossover one? LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:14, March 6, 2025 (EST)

Not an invalid idea, but I agree that is better the focus of a future proposal. This one does not address non-list articles. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:35, March 7, 2025 (EST)

Add headings for first topics of talk pages that lack one

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on March 17, 2025 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

When users create a talk page, they don't always create a heading for their first topic. As a consequence, talk pages sometimes start with a discussion, then there's the table of contents (TOC) and then the remaining topics. For instance, this is the case for Gallery talk:Donkey Kong Card Game (trading cards). It is ugly and inelegant, and it's even worse on mobile because this initial topic takes up a lot of vertical space and never gets collapsed; it is quite a pain having to scroll down an entire discussion just to access the TOC that lists the other topics.

To solve this problem, I propose to add a heading at the top of the first topic of a talk page if it does not have one. That way, the TOC will be at the top of the page (as it should be) and the first topic will be listed along with the other topics instead of being separated from them.

The title of the new headings could be "(First topic)", enclosed in parentheses to indicate that this was not a heading from the original poster; the heading title is open for discussion. If this proposal passes, the aforementioned page would look like this.

Proposer: Jdtendo (talk)
Deadline: March 24, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: add a heading to first topic if it lacks one

  1. Jdtendo (talk) Per proposal
  2. Technetium (talk) Good idea
  3. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  4. Pseudo (talk) Seems useful for navigation!
  5. Camwoodstock (talk) Works for us, and would make it marginally easier to tell when a talk page should be split. Per proposal.
  6. EvieMaybe (talk) per all! very good idea
  7. LadySophie17 (talk) per all. That has always bothered me.
  8. Ahemtoday (talk) Very good to establish consistency.
  9. Nelsonic (talk) Per all.
  10. Rykitu (talk) Per all. Finally consistency.
  11. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.
  12. Weegie baby (talk) The fact there are no headings on the first topics of talk pages annoys me so much 😤
  13. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Consistency is good.

Oppose: don't add headings to topics

Comments (first topic heading)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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