MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
<center>http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png</center>
''None at the moment.''
<br clear="all">
{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed with the signature code <nowiki>~~~(~)</nowiki>.


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
==New features==
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
===Establish a format for poll proposals on the archive lists===
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
Something that's slipped through the cracks when we invented poll proposals was what we do when we add them to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive|these]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP_archive|pages]]. We can't simply have one link to the poll proposal — the entire purpose of the format is that different parts of it can pass and fail independently of one another. What color do we put a proposal where one thing fails and another thing succeeds in?
##Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
##Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
##Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#At the deadline, the validity of each vote and the discussion is reviewed by the community.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.


The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after school, weekend nights).
I have several pitches for you.


So for example, if a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is indeed a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.  
<big>'''''OPTION ZERO'''''</big><br>
Do nothing. I'm putting this at the front because I want to leave room for any good-sounding solutions beyond the four I'm about to suggest. <s>It's here on the proposal at all because I'm pretty sure I'm legally obligated to put it here, but I'll be honest — I'm not entirely sure what this winning would... mean. Our hand will eventually be forced when our first poll proposal fully resolves, so a format will be established one way or the other.</s>


Also,
''EDIT: It has been helpfully pointed out that there is a [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals/Header&diff=prev&oldid=4772367 current policy] — they are red if they all issues fail, gray if at least one passes and is unimplemented, and green if at least one passes and all issues are implemented. A "one issue changes the color" kind of rule. It's definitely not insensible, but I feel that we could be conveying more information. Still, even if  this if the "fail option", we have a policy now, so I got what I wanted even if this one wins.''
<br><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:30px;line-height:30px;font-weight:900;">NO PROPOSALS ABOUT HAVING BANJO AND CONKER ARTICLES</span> -The Management.


__TOC__
<big>'''''OPTION ONE'''''</big><br>
The different issues of a poll proposal share a number corresponding to when the first issue closes. They're listed separately, and distinguished from each other via letters. As an example, the three parts of [[Talk:Yoshi_(species)#Properly_define_Brown_Yoshi|the Brown Yoshi proposal]] would slot in at #83A, #83B, and #83C. (That would shove some other proposals down; we could also just append them to the end of the list like normal and brush off the inconsistency if y'all prefer.)


<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
The Brown Yoshi proposal is also a handy demonstration of an edge case we have to contend with — if this proposal passed ''right now'', we would list #83A as red and #83B as gray, but what would happen with #83C, which is still ongoing? This is the aspect on which Options One and Two differ. In Option One, issues are not added to the archive page until they close. The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later


==New Features==
I would like to note that the Brown Yoshi proposal is a remarkably well-behaved example. If the issues were ordered differently, we may at one point have #83A and #83C on the list with no #83B until later.
===Beta Elements===
I say we put a beta section on each page, so we won't have to go to the beta elements page.
Here would be an examlpe for Mario Kart Double Dash!!
"This was supposed to be a stage (blahblahblah)"


'''Proposer''' {{user:Blue Koop/sig}}
<big>'''''OPTION TWO'''''</big><br>
Option Two is identical to Option One except in how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals. In this option, they ''are'' added to the list alongside the other issues, and marked with a new color — let's say black.


'''Deadline:''' May 1, 2008, 17:00
This prevents the awkward gaps we would be susceptible to in Option One, but it ''is'' introducing a whole color for a temporary edge case.


====support====
<big>'''''OPTION THREE'''''</big><br>
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} What I often find is that by not mentioning beta elements on a game's page, we lose the ability to see how the the game developed and so on.  Besides, this proposal doesn't mean the end of the Beta Elements page.  I could really see the BE page being a collection of "cream of the crop" Beta Elements while the game articles show all the nitty gritty little details.  Or vice versa.
Option Three is simpler. We create a new color in the archive for poll proposals — I guess let's say black again. Poll proposals get added to the archive when all issues on them are closed.
#{{User:Blue Koop/sig}} I say we do this, and for those who oppose saying were going to get rid of the beta elements page if we do do this, were not.
#[[User:Fly Guy 2|:&#124;]] I never liked the beta element page.
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} I vote here as long as this means that we ''do not'' delete the BE page and simply add sections on other pages.
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} This Proposal is NOT asking to remove the Beta Elements page, people. It is merely asking to add Beta information to the articles they belong on. So quit saying "The Beta Elements page is good, so I'll oppose.", because it is NOT valid, since we are NOT removing the Beta Elements page. Wow, long pointless rant in my vote, eh? =P
#[[User:HyperToad|HyperToad]] Per all.
====oppose====
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] - I bearily remember the proposal going the other way on this issue a few months back... Anyway, see below for my ''real'' resoning.
#{{User:Princess Grapes Butterfly/sig}} Per all to me just leave the bete element where it belongs in a nice neat page.
#{{User:Goldguy/sig}}-Think about it.You can just go to one page to find all the wierd and cool stuff Nintendo has left out of games.
#{{User:Xzelion/sig}} Per All
#{{User:Green Guy/sig}} Per all
#{{User:MegaMario9910/sig}} Also like SR & IS said. I'm not against your idea, but I always like the Beta Elements page, also. But if we did add beta elements to the pages, it would be in the trivia section. And you know how much Beta Elements are in each game.
#{{User:Knife/sig}} 11:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT) I think it is okay to use both ideas.
#{{User:Glitchman/sig}} No, because some games have only maybe an enemy or a level that are BETA and that's it, so most games don't have enough Beta elements to have its own section on the games page.  Better to keep them all on one.
#Per all. -[[user:Canama|Canama]]


====comments====
This saves space (the other options will have to give fourteen entries to [[Talk:List_of_references_on_the_Internet#Determine_what_memes_should_be_on_the_Internet_references_page|this proposal]], but it means the entry on the list doesn't reflect anything about any individual issue's status, such as whether it's been implemented or not.
Hey, Blue Koop, you gonna vote for your own proposal? ;) {{User:InfectedShroom/sig}}
:It all comes down to a question of whether more people will want to read about Beta Elements all together or while they read the specific game articles. The real problem is how much variance there is in the amount of beta elements between games: some have enought for a nice big section, others have a line or two of iffy info. For the latter, it would make more sence to give a link to the section of the Beta Elements page, because there, the information scraps fit in. Plus, it makes writing and editing info on beta elements easier doiwn the road, since they're all in one place and you don't have to go hunting around the various port and remake articles of a game to find the differneces, etc. - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
:Walkazo -- the ports of games have all been combined, with the exception of recreations, such as ''[[Super Mario 64 DS]]'' and ''[[Diddy Kong Racing DS]]''.  In the case of recreations, a game had to be remade from scratch to fit a completely different control scheme, so it's not really the same game in terms of the actual programing, as far as my understanding goes. What I'm saying is: ''with very few exceptions the ports and remakes are on the same pages now''.  That should ease your trouble a bit. :) {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:33, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::Eh, I don't quite understand what you are trying to get to. You are lecturing Walkazo about game ports... on a proposal about having Beta Elements information on game articles?


Also, the [[Yoshi's Story]] page '''do''' have a section about Beta Elements. Just want to point that out. {{User:Blitzwing/sig}}
''EDIT: Camwoodstock's pitch below of using three colors (and, implicitly, adding the poll proposal to the archive when it has any closed issues) doesn't entirely eliminate that negative, but it does seem much more useful than just having the one color.''
::Yeah, I don't get what you're trying to say about ports and remakes either... anyway, I'm not sure where to vote. I'm leaning toward "oppose" since I don't see a reason for it not to be in one page. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 10:28, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:::He was talking about the trouble it would be for a reader/editor to track down all of the changes and beta elements made in ports.  With recent changes made to the SMA series (merges), I'm pretty sure that problem has been fixed.  All the remakes I know of with the exception of two significant ones mentioned in my previous comment are merged. I don't know why I'm summarizing the comments for you, but maybe that makes it easier to understand. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 16:50, 27 April 2008 (EDT)


I don't think this Proposal is asking to remove the [[Beta Elements]] page. I think its merely asking to just add Beta Element information to the articles they belong on. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
<big>'''''OPTION FOUR'''''</big><br>
:Yeah, there are a lot of votes that are inappricable in light of that.  But, then again, the proposal is asking for permission to do something that I don't think is banned (see Blitzwing's example). {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 16:50, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
Option Four is simpler still. Each issue is treated as if it were an entirely separate proposal. Each gets numbered and appended to the list when it closes regardless of what anything else in the poll proposal is up to.
::Okay, there are 6 oppose votes there that are inapplicable because they either defend the Beta Elements page or per someone who did so. Knife's oppose vote asks for both Beta Elements page and sections on game pages to be present, so it's really a support vote.
:People with opposes that are invalid because the beta elements page is not being deleted:
*Infected Shroom
*Princess Grapes
*Goldguy
*Xzelion (a per all, potentially valid b/c that includes Walkazo's reason)
*StoobenRooben
*Green Guy (a per all, potentially valid b/c that includes Walkazo's reason)
*MegaMario9910
*Knife (supports both, so is in support of the proposal)
::That leaves Walkazo and Glitchman as the only definately solid opposers.  Xzelion and Green Guy are also potentially valid, although the question is whether or not they looked at Walkazo's reasoning below or not. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 17:48, 27 April 2008 (EDT)


Oh. But is that really necessary? I'm not sure, actually, so I just won't vote. I'll see what the majority thinks. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 16:46, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
The negative of this way of doing it is that the issues of a poll proposal may end up strewn about the list in a way that doesn't really reflect that they're a related thing.


Ah, now I see what you're saying. I'll move my vote. ;) {{User:InfectedShroom/sig}}
'''Proposer''': {{User|Ahemtoday}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT


I do support the idea of putting beta elements on game articles where appropriate, but Glitchman has a point: Some games just have too little beta info to make an extra section. But your proposal says to "put a beta section on ''each'' page", so in its current wording, I cannot support it, sorry :P {{User:Time Q/sig}} 13:46, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
====Option Zero====
:I still think there should be a link. For example:
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per Porple "Steve" Montage in the comments.
::<big>'''''Paper Mario'''''</big>
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Porple.
::'''Beta Elements'''
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} perple montage
::See [[Beta Elements#Paper Mario|here]].
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Porple in the comments, though admittedly this is more of a secondary option to our more robust version of Option Three we pitched. Status quo isn't the ''worst'' thing in the world, and we do acknowledge our more robust solution of "dark colors" may be a bit harder to convey as we've been slowly rolling out... Well, a dark mode for the ''whole wiki''. (If it was down to us, the poll proposals would use lighter colors in dark mode, before you ask; of course, if that option somehow wins, we'd be down to help fine-tune it.)
:"Paper Mario" is an example of the page title, while "beta elements" is an example of a sub-header. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}}
#{{User|Arend}} Per Porple.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per porplemontage.
#{{User|Salmancer}} Oh, huh. I suppose this is a solved problem then.


==Removals==
====Option One====
=== Speculative Relationships ===
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} It's either this or Option Two for me — it's important to me that the issues end up next to each other on the archive ''and'' that the status of each one is visible on the page.
OK, so, I've gone through many articles and noticed a lot of speculative relationships in the Relationships section. [[Baby Daisy]] and [[Princess Daisy]] are HUGE offenders. While some relationships, like [[Mario]]'s relationship with [[Luigi]], are fine, others, like Princess Daisy's relationship with [[Waluigi]], are overly speculative, and have no place on this Wiki. I propose to remove any relationship that has no real proof and is merely complete speculation. I mean, c'mon, [[Diddy Kong]] was on Mario's relationships list at one point! DIDDY KONG!!!
#{{User|Salmancer}} There's no rule saying a poll proposal has to be for small things, since part of the premise was reducing the need for large numbers of combination options. There could be poll proposals that have wide scopes, and as such I think we're going to have to stomach the poll proposals with 10+ proposals in them to make it easier to track policy without thumbing through old proposal pages. Also an archive is for the past, not the present.
 
And an added idea by [[User:Time Q|Time Q]], we could move unsure relationships, like [[Baby Daisy]] and [[Baby Luigi]], to the Trivia sections of the article.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' May 5, 2008, 17:00
 
==== Remove overly speculative relationships ====
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} I am the proposer, and my reasons are given above. Or possibly below, assuming some Users decide to argue. =|
#{{User:Time Q/sig}}: Per DP, the relationships section is not the right place for speculation. Uncertain relationships could be mentioned in the trivia section though.
#{{User:Ghost Jam/sig}} per suggestions by DP and Time Q.
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} - Per Time Q.
#{{User:Blitzwing/sig}} - 'Big duh here. It's like saying "Rewrite Poorly Written articles"
#{{User:Glitchman/sig}} Per Ghost Jam.
#{{User:Wayoshi/sig}} &ndash; Per all. Come on, babies aren't supposed to have romantic relationships.
#Per all. I had done this, but Fixitup got a section made again. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} Per all. Those sections are ridiculous. And people, from my view, the Baby Daisy/Baby Luigi example was just an '''example'''. There are more relationships like theirs that are speculative.
#{{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|Speculation is a big no-no around here.}}
#{{USer:Garlic Man/sig}} Indeed. I removed the Baby Daisy section several times, but got re-added by Fixit several times... gr...
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} Speculation has no place on a Wiki that even suspects the official alternate forms of media as being alternate canon.
 
==== Keep the baseless speculation ====
1. [[User:Moonshine|Moonshine]]- At this point there's no support for the relationship section anymore. But it is worth mentioning. I think a trivia section would suffice though.
 
==== Comments ====
I agree to remove those relationships from the section. However, I think putting them as Trivia items would be okay (that is, if it's not complete speculation, but if there is some indication that it might be true (as seems to be the case with Babies Daisy and Luigi)). Anyway. When you say "remove any relationship [...]", do you mean from the relationships section or altogether? {{User:Time Q/sig}} 05:30, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 
That Trivia idea is kinda good... I'm on board with that. And, when I say "remove any relationship", I mean to remove the certain character relationship section, not the whole Relationships section as a whole. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
 
:Yup, I got that, what I meant was whether you only want to remove the "possible relation" from the relationships section or not mention it in the article at all. But if you say you're on board with the trivia section, I think I can support :P {{User:Time Q/sig}} 06:36, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 
First of all, this was unneeded as we already had solved this issue. Nice job, hur. Secondly, this is worded in a way that is completely wrong. You're making it sound like all relationship sections on the Daisy and Baby Daisy pages have no meaning and as you said are "baseless", That's your opinion, and saying that misleads any users into thinking there really is something bad about the sections. There's nothing more "baseless" about these sections than there are to any other pages. This was solved, you're bringing it back up, and you're not doing so correctly. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
:The purpose behind the proposal is allowing each user to review the facts, discuss the matter and draw their own conclusions, so no real misleading is taking place. Beyond that, the war continued well past repeated protections, so the problem is obviously not solved. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 08:25, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 
I don't give a [[Rat Funk]]'s squeek about what you think of this Proposal being "pointless", Fixitup. Cos' your little edit war with [[User:Toadette 4evur|Toadette 4evur]] sure proved that the problem WAS NOT resolved. I am not at all saying that everything on their pages is baseless speculation. For example, [[Princess Daisy]]'s relationship with [[Luigi]] is valid, since [[Nintendo]] is purposely hinting that relationship in basically every game the two have appeared in together. Stuff like Princess Daisy's relationship with [[Waluigi]], and [[Mario]]'s relationship with [[Diddy Kong]] should be removed... That last one is the most "WTF" of them all. This has been a delightful message from: {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} - And don't you forget it!
:I suggest you calm down. You're starting to sound like you're going off on me again. Anyway, I don't see how you couldn't have explained that already. Also, sections like that don't necessarily need to be removed. They just need to be reworded. Like the Baby Daisy/Baby Luigi relationship. Obviously that has enough information to back it up (meaning it's not baseless) same goes with the Baby Daisy/Baby Peach relationship. (obviously not as much, but still doesn't need to be completely removed or even thrown to a trivia section) Also, the Daisy/Waluigi relationship is backed up by their team names in Mario Party, their chemistry with one another, and their rivalry in Mario Strikers Charged. How is that baseless? I can understand a relationship like Toad/Mario being baseless in some manner, but as long as two people have a history in any manner, there should be a relationship section. Why are proposals always about removing, never fixing? Also, the edit war was over as you saw booster was the last one to revert Toadette4evur's final part in the edit war. He even asked them what reasoning they had, and they disregarded it until a while after. (Hm) [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
:Wow great, the information is now two times in the article, once in the relationship section and once in the trivia. What happened to our compromise? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 08:47, 28 April 2008 (EDT)


====Option Two====
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} See my note about Option One.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Secondary option, but we do think darker shades of the colors (a-la our pitch for Option Three) would be nice. Helps distinguish at a glance what was a poll proposal.


It went in one ear, and out the other, Cobold. ;) {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
====Option Three====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We would like to pitch a more sophisticated variant of this; 3 new colors. One for a poll that has concluded, one for one that's partially ongoing, and one for a poll that has been partially overturned by a future proposal. Maybe dark green, dark gray/maybe a de-saturated dark green a-la the Shroom Spotlight template, and a dark yellow? The darker colors, of course, to contrast with the non-poll proposals. (On dark mode, we'd probably make these lighter, rather than darker, provided we actually even add dark mode compatibility to the proposal archive colors.)
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I definitely see the appeal in having poll proposals under a singular listing, but I think they'd be better served by having one or multiple new colors rather than using the standard red and green.


WaYoshi... the section wasn't about romance, it was just about a relationship. Regardless, they're not real. Real babies don't talk or drive. I fail to see how an infant having a crush on another infant is impossible, especially under the circumstances. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
<s>#{{User|Jdtendo}} Listing every single poll would probably take a lot of space whereas the whole purpose of a poll proposal is bringing together many similar polls that would be too cumbersome to handle separately. I would prefer having a single proposal listed as "Determine what memes should be on the Internet references page" that users can click on to check the detailed results rather than cluttering the list with a dozen links.</s>


First off, I just see this proposal as a selfish way to get rid of the Baby Daisy section...again. I NEVER would have written the section in the first place if I knew it would spontaneously ignite edit wars and then lead to the deletion of all the other speculated relationships. Going by your definition, anything that is a possibility is merely speculation and should go. All in all, thats EVERY relationship section. Take the Daisy & Luigi relationship section. Clearly Nintendo is hinting at a relationship between the two, but it hasn't been OUTRIGHT CONFIRMED. But still, everyone still thinks of them as a couple. The same can be said with any other relationship, Nintendo hasn't confirmed that Luigi is jealous of some of Mario's abilities, and yet no attention is brought to that about being speculation (you even refer to this section as being fine). The Baby Daisy section was deleted quite literally for having the word "May" in it, and thus being unconfirmed. While yes, it's not confirmed, neither is the regular Daisy and Luigi section, but still it's hinted at. You can't just delete SOME articles for being mere speculation and keep the others while they too are speculation. While yes, other sections might be a little more supported than than others, but Proof is proof and you can't just deny it. -[[User:Moonshine|Moonshine]]
====Option Four====
 
All these proposals just because of the Baby Daisy page! Anyway, my position here depends on exactly what you mean by "speculation". Is this about all ideas that haven't  been confirmed by Nintendo, or just ones that seem unlikely and have no official evidence? {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}
 
You DO know who is the cause of all these [[Baby Daisy]]-related problems, right? What I mean is relationships that are complete fan-made BS, like [[Princess Daisy]]'s relationship with [[Waluigi]], or [[Mario]]'s relationship with [[Diddy Kong]], or [[Princess Peach]]'s relationship with [[Wario]]. Stuff like Mario's relationship with [[Luigi]], or Peach's relationship with [[Bowser]] are fine, since they do have backgrounds worth calling official/notable. And Daisy's relationship with Luigi, I do believe that IS official/notable, seeing as Nintendo is purposely implying that in almost every game they appear in together. Even their bios in these games says stuff relating to them being in love with each other. Stuff like [[Baby Daisy]]'s relationship with [[Baby Luigi]], that should be moved to the Trivia section. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
:Are you honestly blaming this on me? You're the one that brought this back up when it had finally settled down again, not me. I already told you how I backed that up, also, if you are referring to specific relationships, maybe you should actually try to fix them yourself before making a big proposal about it? We just had a proposal of someone wanting to remove trivia, and since no one supported it, we decided we should try our best to integrate any information into the article. We don't put things in trivia because someone doesn't find them important enough, we put them there because there is NO place to put them in the article. At the most, the Baby Daisy/Baby Peach relationship should be changed, not the Baby Daisy/Baby Luigi relationship. Why do you think they would be in two GIANT GOLDEN STATUES with each other if they weren't meant to have chemistry? Also, like I said before, sections like Daisy/Waluigi DO have information to back it up. Just because there are sections like Diddy/Mario doesn't mean you have to make a proposal saying we should remove anything considerably speculative. Everyone should know that we would have to consider most sections speculative, and that includes Mario and Peach! This proposal is useless when we could go through articles and fix such things like we had before you made it. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]] - Peace
 
The situation was resolved? Ha... HA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That was the best joke I've heard all week, Fixit. The situation was clearly not resolved. And, what do you do with a big situation like this? You start a Proposal! I can't just remove it all without getting everyone's opinion on the situation. That's what Proposals are for. And regardless of what you think, relationships like Daisy/Waluigi are meaningless, something 11 other Users have agreed on. Even if you think this Proposal is pointless, it doesn't matter. For, you see, I actually MAKE a Proposal to see what OTHERS think, instead of going ahead and getting in an edit war to try and get MY way. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Hmph, fine.
:Good point... {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
 
Do we have evidence of any kind that these freaken babies have a relationship of any kind? And I mean direct, documented proof, not conjecture, not fan crap, not 'Oh, look! They are next to each other on a menu screen! OBVIOUSLY they are bestest frends4leif!!!!!!!'. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 00:23, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
 
Well, [[Baby Daisy]]'s relationship with [[Baby Peach]] seems kinda... Fan-made to me. Her relationship with [[Baby Luigi]] has SOME proof; a statue of the two dancing in the [[Daisy Circuit]] stage. That said, its hardly enough to merit its own section, or even be considered truly official. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
 
==Splits & Merges==
 
===Courses and Stages with the Same Name===
In many games there are courses that appear multiple times, but have a different layout each time. Take for instance [[Luigi's Mansion (place)]]. While it's good to have an article about the mansion itself, it also talks about how it appears as a basketball court, a tennis court and a SSBB stage, all of which have different layouts, and are crammed down at the bottom of the page. Meanwhile, something like [[Mushroomy Kingdom]] gets its own article, instead of being merged with say [[Mushroom Kingdom]] or [[World 1 (SMB)]], just because it has an extra letter in its name. Another example is the many [[Bowser Castle]] courses. The SMK ones have their own articles just because they're numbered in-game, while the rest all are lumped together, despite not being the same actual course.
 
What I'm asking is that we split all these courses, stages and such into their own, seperate articles. Recurring courses that don't actually change appearance much or at all, like [[Final Destination]] should stay the way they are, since it isn't necessary for that.
 
'''Proposer:''' [[User: Booster|Booster]] April 27, 2008, 12:00<br>
'''Deadline:''' May 4, 2008, 15:00
 
====Split====
#[[User: Booster|Booster]] Per above.
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} Per Booster. I've thought about doing this once or twice, especially for Bowser's Castle.
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} Per Booster.  Can you give us a full list of articles this would apply to?
#{{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|Per Booster.}}
#{{User:Glitchman/sig}} This is a good idea, part way at least.  It might be best to have an article for Luigi's Mansion (place) as it appears in the game of the same name, and then another one for Luigi's Mansion (stage) that talks about its racecourse in MKDS, its basketball stadium in MH3on3, its battle course in MKDD, and it's stage in Brawl.  At least two splits.
 
====Don't Split====
#{{User:Garlic Man/sig}} Per my comments below.


====Comments====
====Comments====
Hmmm, I don't think I quite understand what this is for. If this passes, will Bowser's Castle become Bowser's Castle and Bowser's Castle (stage)? Or will it be Bowser's Castle, Bowser's Castle (MK64), Bowser's Castle (MK:DD), etc.? What I'm asking is, will the pages be split into individual pages for each game, or will they be split into a general article and a course article? {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 16:33, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
{{@|Camwoodstock}} — I definitely think your pitch for Option Three is better than the version I was suggesting. I'm not really sure about the pitch for Option Two, though — the letters already distinguish them, and I feel like they'd seem more like separate states rather than a "modifier" on some of the existing ones. Not to mention, wouldn't we need a darker version of every single color just in case? That's a lot of changes to make, and we'd end up running into problems with dark blue, teal, and dark teal; or "dark white", gray, and dark gray. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 03:20, March 4, 2025 (EST)
*It'd be split so that we have a seperate page for each track/course/stage with a shared name. So yes, we'd have Bowser's Castle (MK64), Bowser's Castle (MK:DD), etc. This would include, at the very least:
[[Princess Peach's Castle]]<br>
[[Yoshi's Island (place)]]<br>
[[Luigi's Mansion (place)]]<br>
[[Bowser Castle]] includes the numbered ones as well<br>
[[Rainbow Road]]<br>
[[Luigi Circuit]]<br>
[[Mario Circuit]]<br>
[[Wario Stadium]]<br>
[[Rumble Falls]]<br>
[[Rainbow Ride]] (I mean, Cruise)<br>
[[Kongo Jungle]]<br>
[[Jungle Japes]]<br>
[[Mushroom Kingdom (stage)]]<br>
[[Roof]] (perhaps just delete the SM64 stuff) -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]


Sweet. I completely approve of everything with a possible exception of Peach's Castle.  What do you intend to do with it? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 19:02, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
I don't quite understand option one and two, as the above rules for poll proposals state "A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done." --[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 07:09, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:Could you explain the contradiction in greater detail? I don't see what you mean. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 12:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::The options say "The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later" and "...how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals" there shouldn't be any instances of archiving partially closed poll proposals, they only close all at once when every entry has been resolved.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:::So is your position that we should use the lettering scheme from Options One and Two, but only add poll proposals to the archive page when all of their issues are closed? I don't think I agree, but I can add that as Option Five if that's what you want to vote for. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 22:48, March 4, 2025 (EST)


There are two different Smash Bros. stages named Peach's Castle. One from the N64 game, and one from Melee. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
I feel like [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals/Header&diff=prev&oldid=4772367 this] is fine. Either it's red (no change from the status quo so nothing needs to be done), gray (''some'' change was established and there is work to do), or green (some change was established and it's all done). There are other proposals where people list [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Clarify_coverage_of_the_Super_Smash_Bros._series several things] to be done, it's not that different, it's just that now we have the ability to vote on each individual thing. But in either case you just click the link to read exactly what was approved. --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 10:56, March 7, 2025 (EST)


I'm gonna remain neutral on this. You bring up a very good point, but at the same time, I feel its better to keep all of it merged. I tried to make [[Mushroomy Kingdom]] and [[Mushroom Kingdom (stage)|Mushroom Kingdom]] one article, but [[User:Cobold|Cobold]] split them. So, well... I dunno what to vote for. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''


Look at the [[Luigi's Mansion (place)]] article. The stage you fight on in Brawl is not the actual mansion itself, since it's much smaller than before, is missing rooms, and is now on a floating platform. It's not the same mansion IMO, and if it is, they did a lot of renovating. I'm not saying we should make an article for, say every castle Bowser has in each game, but for stages with their own features and layouts, then perhaps yes. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
==Changes==
 
===Introducing the crossover article===
Its still the same mansion... Even if it does look different, the overall design is still Luigi's Mansion. But, like I said before, I will remain neutral on this. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
The passing of this proposal would accomplish seven things:
:I'm gonna be with DP on this one. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 21:03, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
#'''See the publication of the drafted ''Zelda'' article''' discussed in this proposal, titled "{{Fake link|crossovers with ''The Legend of Zelda''}}." (The draft can be viewed [[User:Nintendo101/community garden|here]].)
 
#'''Funnel redirects and disambiguation pages pertaining to ''Zelda'' on the wiki to the published ''Zelda'' article''' (i.e., searches for The Legend of Zelda, Octoroks, etc. Fully covered crossover subjects like [[Link]] would keep their articles, and this would not preclude a crossover subject from receiving an article of their own in the future if warranted, such as the inclusion of Princess Zelda in a future ''Mario Tennis'' or something like that).
:Okay, I have some reasons to oppose: I see what Booster is trying to say, and it makes sense. However, despite having diffirent features, they represent the same place in the Marioverse. This sorta brings up a point about the other Paper Mario proposal that's going on, but, while having different features, Paper Mario and 3D Mario are the same person, thus the same article. I think the same could be said with Luigi Mansion in LM, MKDS, and Brawl. {{User:Garlic Man/sig}}
#'''Move details pertaining to ''Zelda'' from list articles on the site to this one''' (i.e. all information pertaining to Sheik on the [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee|list of fighters debuting in ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'']] article would be cleared, and searching for "Sheik" on the site would bring you to this article. ''Zelda'' info on the [[list of references in Nintendo video games]] article would similarly be cleared. Visitors to that article would be directed towards the published ''Zelda'' one when they reach that section of the list article).
::A course dreamed up by Master Hand based off of Princess Peach's Castle is not the same location as the actual Princess Peach's castle. The Smash Bros series worlds are: (original) dreamed up by Master Hand, (Melee) unconfirmed, but in a world where trophies smaller than a human hand battle, and (Brawl) in a completely separate world where trophies BASED off of the Nintendo cast fight.  In other words, the Mushroom Kingdom is not the world of trophies/master hand's imagination. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 20:26, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
#'''Establish a navbox for crossover articles''' (either a wholly dedicated one, an incorporation into "Template:Culture," or a retooling of "Template:Crossover characters").
:::Actually, I was about to revise my comment, saying that all of the Mario games(Does not inculde crossovers, such as SSB) are the same locations. So, uh, Brawl doesn't count, I guess. But anyway, besides brawl, Luigi Mansion is always the same place in the Marioverse. There aren't 5 Luigi Masnions out there. {{User:Garlic Man/sig}
#'''Establish the precedent where this can be done for other IPs with which the ''Super Mario'' franchise has crossed-over.'''
::Luigi's Mansion may not be the best example, but you can't tell me that every Rainbow Road track is the same course. Also compare Luigi's Mansion from the Luigi's Mansion game itself, the Double Dash Battle course, and the DS Racetrack. Yes, they're all called Luigi's Mansion, and look similar, but with that logic you could say that several Burger King locations are all the same place. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
#'''Establish a 'Crossover article" section to the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style]]''' that explains the framework for crossover articles described below. This is to be the standard structure for how other articles are to be structured.
 
#'''Note that this framework exists on the the [[MarioWiki:Coverage#Crossovers|crossover section of our coverage policy]]''', and provide a link directing readers to it.
===Recipes===
Ok, here we go. I've been looking through some pages and I saw that there is a different page for each of [[Saffron]], [[Zess T.]], and [[Tayce T.]]'s recipes, even though the grand majority of them are stubs. I propose that we merge them all into a table on the [[Recipes]] page for easier access to them, sort of like the [[Badges]] page. So it's up you know. Tell me what you think.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}} April 24, 2008, 20:54<br>
'''Deadline:''' May 1, 2008, 17:00
 
====Merge recipes====
#{{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}} What I stated above.
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} Per T4E. I have done the same thing. We need just one page for all the recipes.
#{{User:Blitzwing/sig}} There was a proposal about this (Which failed). I agree that the Recipes article are rather short and minor.
#{{User:Princess Grapes Butterfly/sig}} Sound great merging a the stub into one great stub free page in a neat order. Also we'll have less recipes page.
#{{User:Xzelion/sig}} Per All; I had this proposal going before, had tons of supporters, than SoS opposed it, then everyone opposed it. ;-;
#{{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|Per all. I like GJ's idea; neat and compact...it sounds good.}}
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] - Per all.
#{{User:Green Guy/sig}} Per all is all I can say
#{{User:Knife/sig}} 11:44, 26 April 2008 (EDT) I originally suggested this, but the vote was to keep it separate. I have an idea for a template.
#[[User:Byfordej]] per all.
#{{User:Ghost Jam/sig}} per my comments below.
#{{User:Glitchman/sig}} Per all.
 
====Leave them the way they are====
#{{User:YellowYoshi398/sig}} They're officially named items; I think they're worthy of articles. Some even have backstories, like [[Cake]] and [[Couple's Cake]]. They also have other notability (like maybe TTYD recipes needed for troubles, or even physical descriptions) that could give them longer articles with some work, and it seems like a lot of them could at least have the bare bones "____ is an item in ''Super Paper Mario'' that restores 398 HP and is made by having Dyliss cook a ___ and a ___"; maybe the articles that just CAN'T have any more info than that can be, like, exempt from being stubs or something. (That could even be a proposal...)
#[[User: WikiGuest|Wikiguest]] - Per YellowYoshi398.
#{{User:Garlic Man/sig}} - Per YY398
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} Very good point, YellowYoshi.  Although I'm not against a big list, I am against a merge because of the exceptions mentioned.  How is this list going to tell the story of how the Paper Mario cake lead to Tayce T.'s marriage?
 
====Comments====
 
This is a good proposal; I can tell, because I'm having a hard time deciding what side to vote on. So, good work on that, T4e! ;) While I do agree that a good portion of the recipe articles are stubs, merging all 174 of them into one article...I think that the one big article would be very large and take a while to load. And, each recipe has a different effect...what to vote... {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}}
:Hmmm, maybe we could have 2 pages. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
::No, that would just make navigation confusing. Besides, what about the [[Recipes]] page? Or do you want something more? Also, we already had a proposal about this a few weeks ago, so I'll reiterate my point form then: the recepies aren't substantial enough for their own articles, the existing Recepies Page is perfectly fine for that; however, the ingrediant/product pages should all list the recepies they are involved with to make it easier to research things concerning them. - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
:::Walkazo: We don't want 100-some stub pages. It would be easier to merge them all. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
::::Oh, I get what you're saying now, yeah, totally we don't need the individual recepis pages, I wa salways againt that. But I still think the big list of recepies is enough: it indicates the game the recipe comes from and it has the ingrediants and products; if you want to find out what ''they'' do, just use the link. What more is there to write about? - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
:::::We can merge the info onto the page. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
::::::Uh oh, a no solution problem. The articles themselves are too small. But a page with all of them would be too big. And two pages would be weird. I thought about "list of recipes in Paper Mario", "list of recipes in PM:TTYD", etc. But that wouldn't work since some recipes are in both. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 10:35, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::Everything could merged onto a table on the Recipes page. We don't need to go into super detail over what an item is, how it works and where to get it. Just how to make it, a note about what it does...maybe how much it sells for. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 12:06, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::::You mean sort of like the [[Badges]] page? {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}}
:::::::::Hmmm... when you put it that way, it doesn't sound bad. Maybe I'll vote support when I've thought about it more. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 17:13, 25 April 2008 (EDT) <small>And when I'm feeling a bit less lazy.</small>
:::::::::Great idea, Ghost Jam! I changed the proposal so that we can do that. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
::::::::::Neatness and compactness, all in one page; this is what is needed. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}}
 
YellowYoshi398: Even if they're officially named, do you want 174 2-4 sentence articles? The badges were officially named, and they are all on one page. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
 
:I do feel like they're worthy of articles... And I guess my real point was that there's more to be said about them. I kinda feel the same about Badges, though... {{User:YellowYoshi398/sig}}
::About 130 of them are stubs, though. We can get rid of all of them by making this one page. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
:::That is a good point... {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 11:17, 26 April 2008 (EDT)


Stumpers: Put that on the Tayce T. article. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
The ''Super Mario'' franchise is very much the IP tentpole for Nintendo Co., Ltd. and at least one of the ones for the Japanese video game industry as a whole. Consequently, ''Super Mario'' as a franchise and brand has crossed-over with many other franchises, brands, and series over its nearly fifty years of existence - not only sister series developed by Nintendo EAD and R&D, and their successor EPD (i.e. ''Duck Hunt'', ''Punch-Out!!'', ''Exictebike'', ''Metroid'', ''F-ZERO'', ''Animal Crossing'', ''Pikmin'', ''Splatoon'', etc.) and those of their external creative partners (i.e. Ape Inc.'s ''EarthBound'', HAL Laboratory's ''Kirby'', Game Freak's ''Pokémon'', etc.), but also fellow ones from other studios like Square Enix, Sega, Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Chunsoft, Ubisoft, Konami, and Hudson Soft. This is not groundbreaking news: Most folks interested in gaming history already know this, especially the curators of the Super Mario Wiki. However, I do not feel like we handle this information particularly well on the site.


===Toads===
A lot of coverage of ''Super Mario'' references, homages, allusions, and cameos are nestled within various list articles, inexplicitly at the end of [[Super Mario Bros.#Notes|dedicated game articles]], or in ''Super Smash Bros.'' articles with which there seemed to have been effort to bury on the site and [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.#Captain Falcon|are not wholly about ''Super Smash Bros.'' anyways]]. This coverage, exasperated by recent efforts to reduce coverage on the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series: (1.) obfuscates the fact that ''Super Mario'' has made references and ''is'' referenced in many other franchises outside of ''Smash Bros.'' contexts, often in very meaningful ways that are interesting and fun to read about; (2.) mitigates how ''Mario'' has been an influence behind some of these other franchises; and (3.) makes finding some bits of information just very difficult. If I, as a visitor of the site, wanted to understand scenarios where ''Splatoon'' and ''Mario'' have crossed-over, I would not have an easy way to find that all in one place, and I think that is a shame.
Hiya. With the recently release of Sper Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy, I would like to make a shocking proposal: merge [[Toad]] with [[Toads]]. Though it makes me ache to say it, Toad is no longer a valid character. Yoshi still has enough separateness to have his own article, in fact I think the "Yoshi-Yoshi's" conundrum has actually ben mentioned by Yoshi once or twice, but look at the Toad trophy in SSBB! It makes no attempt to divide the character from the species. The biggest problem is that the articles will suffer from us not being sure whether a certain red spotted mushroom man was THE Toad or A Toad.... I know this is not a very well written proposal, but you get what I'm trying to say right?


'''Proposer:''' [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]] April 27, 2008, 11:45<br>
[[File:LA Wart.gif|right|200px|frog man!]]
'''Deadline''' May 4, 2008, 15:00
[[File:SM3DW WS-1 2nd Green Star.jpg|right|200px|green lad!]]
To better cover and consolidate crossover info on the site, I have been drafting what I would like to call a "<u>crossover article</u>" using [[User:Nintendo101/community garden|''The Legend of Zelda'' franchise as an example]] (with contributions from Salmancer, DryBonesBandit, Memelord2020, RHG1951, LeftyGreenMario, and LadySophie17, and feedback from Super Mario RPG, Doc von Schmeltwick, and Koopa con Carne). This is a long article, and it is not wholly completed yet, but I think it is serviceable example of what I would like us to do going forward. Crossover articles take inspiration from the {{iw|smashwiki|Mario (universe)|universe articles}} from our affiliate Smash Wiki and, as apparent in the ''Zelda'' draft, consist of the following sections:
*'''Overview''' : A brief description of what the crossover franchise/series is for those not well versed in the subject and would like to know a little more about it without visiting another site, and how this relates to ''Mario''. It is the create a foundation so the reader is not confused by descriptions or terminology in the other areas of the article. For ''Zelda'', this section may be a bit lengthier than it would be for others because ''Mario'' had a lot of direct influence on ''Zelda'' as a series.
*'''Recurring crossover subjects''': for subjects like characters, enemies, bosses, or items that make substantial appearances in or alongside ''Mario''-related media, such as subjects that used to have their own articles on the site. Each subject would be briefly explained so readers understand who they are when mentioned in other parts of the article, have explicit conceptual or design connections with ''Mario'' highlighted, and summarize areas where they specifically crossover with ''Mario''.
*'''History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise''': a history section for where the crossover subject is referenced in the ''Super Mario'' franchise itself.
*'''History in the subject series/franchise''': a history section for the inverse, where ''Super Mario'' is referenced in the franchise subject of the article. In this case, it is ''Zelda''.
*'''Shared history''' (if applicable): a history section for mutual space where both subjects appear, such as the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, ''Tetris'' series, ''NES Remix'' series, or other media.


====Merge Toad with Toads====
''Zelda'' is uniquely related to ''Mario'' and nearly as old, but crossover articles can be written for smaller franchises/series as well. The only requirement for a series/franchise to receive an article of its own is for it to directly crossover with ''Super Mario'' within an officially licensed capacity. Articles of this nature should not be written for series/franchise that simply make homages to ''Super Mario'' or have elements inspired by it, such as ''Celeste'', ''Gears of War'', or ''Astro Bot''.
#[[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]


====Keep as is====
I offer three options:
#Merging is only for articles that don't have enough info to have it's own article. Toad has enough info to stay separate, plus, he is a major Toad like [[Toadette]] and [[Toadsworth]]. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
#'''Support: I like the idea of crossover articles and want to see them implemented as described.'''
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} The two pages are much different, and Toad used to be a major character in and of himself, before there were the other ones.
#'''Support: I like the idea of crossover articles, but list articles for the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series should be left alone.'''
#Toad is still a unique character, despite getting fewer and fewer roles over the years. Even if he were forgotten entirely doesn't mean we should drop his article. And he did make an appearance at the start of ''Super Paper Mario'', for what that's worth. [[User: Booster|Booster]]
#'''Oppose: I do not like the idea of the crossover article and do not want to see them implemented.'''
#{{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}Come on, Toad is a character! There's a species just like him, but there's still one with a red cap in a blue vest who's Princess Peach's main attendant and has helped Mario out since Super Mario Bros. 2. And plus both articles have a lot of info.
#{{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|All the other characters/species are separate, thus, Toad should be too.}}
#{{User:MegaMario9910/sig}}If we do this, we'll have an article too big. Toad has a whole page to himself, and the speceis have their own. If the speceis was merged, then we'd have no clue which was the actual Toad.
#There's still a seperate character named Toad. -[[user:Canama|Canama]]
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} - There might be no clearly definable character Toad in modern games. But that doesn't take the character Toad out of earlier games such as SMB2.


====Comments====
I know this was a long one, folks. Sorry about that, but the ideas behind this idea are multifaceted. Please let me know if you need additional clarity on anything or if you have any recommended amendments. (Also, if you would like, I welcome you to contribute to the drafted ''Zelda'' article! It is in my "<u>community</u> garden" sandbox for a reason.)
Infected, You realize that I'm not actually saying we should merge Toad just with Toads, but that they both be deleted and a combination page of both be written, a page that has info on the species and the (questionable) character. Frankly, I don't think there is a character anymore, thats why I made this proposal. - [[User:Ultimatetoad|Ultimatetoad]]


Ultimatetoad, don't forget to add a reason for your vote, even if you're the proposer. Toadette, I think you got the proposal wrong; what Ultimatetoad is trying to say is that there's no difference between the character Toad and the species Toad. Thus your reason "the Toad (Species) article is only for generic Toads" doesn't make much sense. {{User:Time Q/sig}} 15:11, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT


Ultimatetoad: Yes, I realize that. You just made it sound like you wanted to merge one with the other. I'll change my oppose. {{User:InfectedShroom/sig}}
====Support: let's implement crossover articles!====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} [[File:Link pose SMM.png]]
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposer.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal with absolutely no second thought. Aside from the obvious value such articles would bring, this practice may incidentally just be the silver bullet for the community's differences on how to cover Smash Bros. content. Nintendo101, even with your inspiration from SmashWiki, I'd say you still managed to think out of the box here.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} been waiting a long time for this one. per proposal!
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Secondary choice, I suppose. Better than no article.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Secondary option; we'd rather these articles exist, even if the Smash coverage is confusing, than these articles not exist at all.
#{{User|PopitTart}} It has always felt absurd to me that [[Captain Olimar]]'s presence on the wiki is entirely an entry in [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl]], despite being directly based on Mario himself and having appearances in ''Luigi's Mansion'', ''WarioWare: D.I.Y.'', ''Super Mario Maker'', ''Yoshi's Woolly World'', ''Mario Kart 8'', and ''WarioWare Move It!''
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Crossover articles are a great idea, and if it can also declutter ''Smash Bros.'' list articles, it's even better.
#{{User|Arend}} As long as the content from the list pages are preserved in SOME way or another, I am perfectly fine with this. I think this is a great idea, and the well-detailed draft really sold me on this.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Makes perfect sense.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Sounds good to me.
#{{User|Shy Guy on Wheels}} Per all. death to the smash bros lists
#{{User|Mario}} Those list pages are a spaghetti of sadness, mama mia. I love the idea of these crossover pages, wonderful idea (similar to those decade splits for the gallery pages), and they're going to be a massive step up from that mess we currently have. I don't want to keep those lists at all. Their tolerated existence makes our wiki look bad, although absolutely delicious, if you ask me.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} The list pages are an abhorrent sight and I'd much rather have Smash information contained in these respective crossover articles - if that proves too large for the size of the existing article, then the next logical step would be a subpage for Smash Bros. information, would it not? Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} I love how you've put this together, Nintendo101 and other contributors! This seems like a very valuable addition to the wiki.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|Mushzoom}} Per proposal.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.


Why to merge Toad and Toads? If there was a person named human, you wouldn't merge him with Human (species) because they have the same name. Think of it that way. And Toad's a valid character, although he doesn't play many roles now. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 18:23, 27 April 2008 (EDT) He's still referred to "Toad", not just "A Toad"...
====Support: let's implement crossover articles, but leave ''Smash Bros.'' lists alone====
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per proposal. I believe the articles would be better focused on the relationship between their respective series and Mario. Detailing all their character's Smash histories (which could get quite lengthy with something like Pokémon) would be better left in the List articles they currently are in.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per Sophie.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Per Soph
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Primary option; per Sophie, we worry about the length of some Smash sections, and we feel the organization is fine enough as it is right now for Smash-related subjects.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per Sophie. I fully agree with making crossover articles to cover the relations another franchise has with Mario, but Smash in of itself is also a crossover and covering the details of these characters in a place that relates to Smash feels better.
#{{User|Arend}} Second option. I'm personally not a huge fan of loss of content, and this option allows this to be fully preserved by leaving it be. While I have been assured that the history sections will be preserved in a form better suited for the article and other details such as Classic Mode routes and stickers/trophies/spirits might be reimplemented, I'm still keeping this as a secondary option to be safe.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per Sophie.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Second opinion.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This proposal is pretty close to how I imagined covering ''Zelda'' subjects had ''[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/58#Determine The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening and its reissues as a guest appearance and create an article covering all three versions and/or its Mario-related subjects|Link's Awakening]]'' failed!
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|Salmancer}} Hmm, so I'm going to do this because technically each of a character's special moves gets a sentence to itself on their article/Smash list entry and those just aren't going to fit in a crossover article
#{{User|Pseudo}} Secondary choice.
#{{User|Weegie baby}} Yes.


=== Paper Mario ===
====Oppose: let's not implement crossover articles====


Is Paper Mario a seperate character from [[Mario]]? If so should we make a seperate article for Paper Mario Just asking.
====Crossover comments====
I also happened to start a [[User:PopitTart/Sandbox#Pikmin (franchise)|draft for a Pikmin series article]] the other day, inspired by Nintendo101's Zelda draft. It's in a much... '''much''' rougher state, but I hope it gives an idea what these crossover articles can provide.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 19:31, March 3, 2025 (EST)


'''Proposer:'''[[User:Dragonson|Dragonson]] 16:39, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
{{@|Koopa con Carne}} thank you for the kind words! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:30, March 3, 2025 (EST)
:[[File:LinkCN.jpg|50px]] {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:32, March 4, 2025 (EST)


'''Deadline:''' May 4, 2008, 15:00
Question: One of the proposed points is to "''Move'' details pertaining to Zelda from list articles on the site to this one", but the i.e. states that "all information pertaining to Sheik on the list of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee article would be ''cleared''". Characters on these fighter lists have extensive history sections; will these be moved to the crossover pages as well, or will these be nixed altogether?<br>Also, what about franchises which currently only have a connection with Mario through ''Smash Bros.'', such as ARMS? Will these get a crossover article as well or not? {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:10, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:I don't know. Perhaps we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Ultimately, very few of the franchises within ''Smash Bros.'' have only crossed-over with ''Mario'' within ''Smash Bros.'', and that was at the front of my mind for this proposal. ''ARMS'' is one of the few exceptions. I should probably make some sort of list to parse what other series and franchises are within that boat. But what would you want to see, {{@|Arend}}? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::I don't know... I'd understand not giving those an article given how they only crossover in ''Smash'', but it would be strange to do with ''ARMS'' considering it's probably the only franchise with such a distinction that is directly from Nintendo. I can see us making an exception and allowing a crossover article for ''ARMS'' regardless, considering how most of the ''ARMS'' development team is basically ''Mario Kart 8'' alumni anyway, but that same excuse probably wouldn't work with ''Kingdom Hearts''. Then again, maybe so few franchises would be left that we might as well make crossover pages for those anyway.<br>Anyway {{@|Nintendo101}}, you didn't answer my first question regarding the fighters' history sections on the fighter lists, so I ask again: would they be moved to the crossover pages as well, or be deleted altogether and not being covered at all? Knowing precisely what's going to happen to those (as the proposal hasn't really elaborated well on what will happen to those) is pivotal for me to pick which option to choose for, you see. That's kind of why I haven't voted yet. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:::I personally envisioned the history sections for each fighter being disseminated within history sections as described in this proposal (one section for ''Mario'', one section for the other franchise, and one section for mutual space where both franchises crossover together). Individual characters would not have the full history sections as present in those list articles, but the individual info would largely be preserved. (I did not think it was important to reiterate granular ''Smash Bros.'' info about Stickers, Trophies, Classic Mode routes, etc. because that seemed more about ''Zelda'' in ''Smash Bros.'' and less about ''Zelda'' with ''Mario'' in ''Smash Bros.'', but Hewer had reservations on that info being discarded, so maybe that can be reincorporated. But everything else, especially info outside of ''Smash Bros.'', would be retained.) For example, in my ''Zelda'' draft, [[User:Nintendo101/community garden#Ganon|Ganon]] is described under the "recurring crossover subject" section, and Ganondorf is mentioned in the relevant sections below where he shows up, like ''Super Mario Maker'', ''Mario Artist: Paint Studio'', ''Yoshi's Woolly World'', and the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. That info is just being presented alongside other relevant ''Zelda'' info in those games and others, and I suspect that is the type of info someone searching for "Ganondorf" on the Super Mario Wiki would be interested in. How does that sound? What do you think of the draft? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:16, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::::I suppose that works. So long as the content on the original pages is preserved (one way or another), I'm perfectly fine with this. Also, I think the draft looks amazing so far. There are a couple things missing of course (it is a draft, after all), but what is there is very well-detailed. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:16, March 5, 2025 (EST)
So is the ultimate plan for these to effectively be a replacement for the Smash list pages? I imagine the lists would start looking a bit barren if things on them get moved to crossover franchise articles. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:I am admittedly not a fan of the fighter list articles on the wiki and I think the information on them would be better served in articles more directly focused on the ''Super Mario'' franchise, both for readers and editors. However, I respect the will of those who would rather we keep those articles around. I am not sure if you looked at my ''Zelda'' draft, but it does omit more granular information specific to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, like stickers, trophies, Classic Mode routes, special moves, or NIOLs for individual characters. I would rather this article emphasize how ''Zelda'' engages with ''Mario'' in other contexts. If folks would rather Super Mario Wiki continue to hold onto the more granular ''Smash Bros.'' info on the fighter list articles, they could be retained for those purposes, I imagine. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:47, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::Well, there are two voting options for people who want both. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::I find Classic Mode routes in particular a bit odd to remove since they often involve Mario characters/stages/etc. (and I guess a similar argument could possibly be made for stickers), but I understand for the stuff with no particular Mario relevance.<br>Another thing I just thought of: we already have [[Pushmo (series)]] and [[Just Dance (series)]] as guest appearances, and [[Talk:List of references in Nintendo video games#Split Animal Crossing|this proposal]] passed to make a page for the Animal Crossing series (technically the proposal was just to make a page on the game, but every single voter agreed to do a series page instead). Would this proposal affect these pages? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:44, March 4, 2025 (EST)
:::I had touched base with some of the users involved in those proposals. I do personally think it would make sense for all of these articles to have similar structure to one another - I think that uniformity would make them easier for readers to jump between them and find what they are looking for. However, maybe {{@|Kaptain Skurvy}}, {{@|Nelsonic}}, and {{@|Mushzoom}} can provide their two cents. Would you want the ''Pushmo'', ''Just Dance'', and ''Animal Crossing'' articles be grandfathered into this proposal? It would just provide some structural guidelines and inform how redirects and disambiguation pages relevant to these series would be handled on the wiki. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
::::Yeah, it would make sense to apply this to those articles for consistency (and Pushmo technically crosses over in Smash as well, as a spirit). So a list of franchises to split could look something like:<br>Major non-Smash crossovers ("major" meaning "would take more than a couple of sentences to fully explain"): The Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Sonic the Hedgehog, F-Zero, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Pikmin, Punch-Out!!, {{iw|rhythmheaven|WarioWare (series)|Rhythm Heaven}}, Kirby, Metroid, Excitebike, Pushmo, Just Dance, EarthBound, Kid Icarus, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Banjo-Kazooie, maybe Star Fox, maybe Duck Hunt, maybe [[Balloon Fighter|Balloon Fight]], maybe [[Bubbles (Clu Clu Land)|Clu Clu Land]], maybe Fire Emblem, maybe Street Fighter, maybe Ice Climber, maybe Bayonetta?, not sure if "Game & Watch" really counts as a franchise, Minecraft technically counts but would [[Minecraft|probably be redundant to split]]<br>Minor non-Smash crossovers and/or appearances only as amiibo costumes: Pokémon, Wii Fit, Xenoblade Chronicles<br>Minor non-Smash crossovers: Metal Gear, Castlevania, Tekken<br>No non-Smash crossovers: Persona, Fatal Fury, ARMS, Kingdom Hearts<br>I probably missed something. I'm assuming that franchises whose only crossover is non-fighter representation in Smash (like a stage or Assist Trophy or something) don't count. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 05:29, March 5, 2025 (EST)
::::Forgot about [[Starfy|The Legendary Starfy]], that would qualify. There's also [[I Choose You!]] from Mario Maker, which might barely push Pokémon up to "major". {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:13, March 5, 2025 (EST)
::::{{@|Nintendo101}} I'm fine with that. [[User:Mushzoom|Mushzoom]] ([[User talk:Mushzoom|talk]]) 02:30, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
:{{@|Nintendo101}} Yes. This makes perfect sense, and the grandfathering approach would allow these series to get more mainstream attention, which is never a bad thing. New series with a significant amount of ''Super Mario'' content would also likely be considered for a crossover article as opposed to being relegated to the [[list of references in Nintendo video games]] or the [[list of references in third-party video games]]. Being placed on said lists works for games with small amounts of ''Super Mario'' content (i.e. ''{{wp|Drill Dozer}}'' or ''{{wp|Borderlands 2}}''), but doesn't for games with larger amounts of ''Super Mario'' content (i.e. [[Punch-Out!! (Wii)|''Punch-Out!!'']] or ''[[Mobile Golf]]'').  [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 11:31, March 5, 2025 (EST)


====Support====
This is probably a separate proposal, but should the ''Link's Awakening'' article be outright merged with the new crossover one? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:14, March 6, 2025 (EST)
#Paper Mario is Mario in 2-D graphics; however, Nintendo has them as different characters ; use the Brawl trophies. [[User:Nintendofan146|Nintendofan146]] 14:51, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
:Not an invalid idea, but I agree that is better the focus of a future proposal. This one does not address non-list articles. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:35, March 7, 2025 (EST)


====Oppose====
===Add headings for first topics of talk pages that lack one===
#{{User:Blitzwing/sig}} He's Mario, nuff said. If we makes a separate article for Paper Mario, we should do the same for 3D Mario, Super Smash Bros. Mario, Godawful Movie Mario, Hotel Mario Mario, Mama Luigi... Ect.
{{early notice|March 17, 2025}}
#{{User:Glitchman/sig}} Per the Winging-Blitz :P
When users create a talk page, they don't always create a heading for their first topic. As a consequence, talk pages sometimes start with a discussion, then there's the table of contents (TOC) and then the remaining topics. For instance, this is the case for [[Gallery talk:Donkey Kong Card Game (trading cards)]].
#{{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} He's just Mario, after getting a magic spell making him 2D... just kidding. Per Blitzwing. Besides, what is there to say about Paper Mario? People expect the information about him in Paper Mario games to be in his own article.
It is ugly and inelegant, and it's even worse on mobile because this initial topic takes up a lot of vertical space and never gets collapsed; it is quite a pain having to scroll down an entire discussion just to access the TOC that lists the other topics.
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} Per the lighning wing.
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} It's just an art style change. On a related note, Blitzwing's comment about separating SSB Mario isn't a good oppose: according to Sakurai, it's trophies fighting in Brawl.  The Mario of the main series isn't a trophy, so technically they are two different people... but a separate character doesn't always mean a separate article ([[Ashley and Red]]), so that's why they're still together in one article.
#[[User:Girrrtacos|Girrrtacos]] The Mario from SMB2 is the same Mario as SM64, just as Paper Mario.
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Even if its alternate canon (I still think the RPG's is official canon, but others disagree), Paper Mario is still Mario. This isn't Legend of Zelda, ya know.
#{{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|<s>A person is a person, no matter how small.</s> Mario is Mario, no matter what form.}}
#Paper Mario doesn't qualify as a form or seperate character IMO. Just keep it as is -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
#[[User:Byfordej]] Per All
#{{User:Bob-omb buddy/sig}}-Paper mario is just mario but in a different form.
#Same 'ol Mario -[[user:Canama|Canama]]


====Comments====
To solve this problem, I propose to add a heading at the top of the first topic of a talk page if it does not have one.
That way, the TOC will be at the top of the page (as it should be) and the first topic will be listed along with the other topics instead of being separated from them.


Stumper: Eh, never heard of a wonderful thing called "No taking things literally"? I was taking SSB Mario as an example, no needs to lecture me about him being a different character blablablablab but that he is merged because blablabla. That's really annoying. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 06:51, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
The title of the new headings could be "(First topic)", enclosed in parentheses to indicate that this was not a heading from the original poster; the heading title is open for discussion.
If this proposal passes, [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Gallery_talk:Donkey_Kong_Card_Game_(trading_cards)&oldid=4730155 the aforementioned page] would look [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:Jdtendo/Bacassab&oldid=4776920 like this].


Not that I don't agree with you guys, but then, WHAT ABOUT [[Dr. Mario]]?!?!1111///1 [[User:HyperToad|HyperToad]]
'''Proposer''': {{User|Jdtendo}}<br>
:Well, Gameplay-wise, Dr. Mario '''is''' a different character from Mario because of his appearance in Super Smash. Bros. Melee. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 16:39, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
'''Deadline''': March 24, 2025, 23:59 GMT


Uh oh, HyperToad is right... {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} P.S. Blitzwing, please try to talk to Stumpers in a nicer way.
====Support: add a heading to first topic if it lacks one====
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per proposal
#{{User|Technetium}} Good idea
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems useful for navigation!
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Works for us, and would make it marginally easier to tell when a talk page should be split. Per proposal.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all! very good idea
#{{User|LadySophie17}} per all. That has always bothered me.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Very good to establish consistency.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all. Finally consistency.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|Weegie baby}} The fact there are no headings on the first topics of talk pages annoys me so much 😤
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Consistency is good.


==Changes==
====Oppose: don't add headings to topics====
=== What's-a-Gibberish? ===


Hey-hey, come on!
====Comments (first topic heading)====
Ok users, pay attention, and read carefully.
As some of you may know, there was a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 4#Quotes.3F|proposal]] that said, "Lately i've been searching around the wikis quotes, and have seen quotes like "whupee heeheeheehee!" when thats just a bunch of giberious and also something like AHHH!!! thats just someone yelling! should we get rid of these?". Now, the problem some users (including me, of course) have encountered is what to actually consider a "gibberish" quote. Now look at the quotes that have been recently removed from the [[Baby Daisy]] article:
*''"Baby Daisy!"'' &ndash; ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]
*''"Ha-ha! YAY!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Go-go!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"GO!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"NO!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"NOoooo.."'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Heh-heh!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Okey-dokey. Yeah!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Yaaaay! Whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo."'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Yipee. Yipee. Yi-hee-hee-hm-hm.."'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
Okay,just so you know, a current issue trying to be settled is, which of these quotes actually count as gibberish, and which should actually be allowed to stay. Now, as of the current point in time, and according to the outcome of the proposal linked above, gibberish quotes count as anything that is random babbling or plain screaming. So, Which of these quotes qualifies in those groups? Well, as the quotes that contain nothing but yelling qualify as gibberish, you COULD mark out these:
*''"Baby Daisy!"'' &ndash; ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]
*''"Ha-ha! YAY!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Go-go!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"GO!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"NO!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"NOoooo.."'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Heh-heh!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Okey-dokey. Yeah!"'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
*''"Yaaaay! Whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo."'' &ndash; ''Mario Kart Wii
Oh, but wait! All of these quotes contain yelling! There's the first problem. Just because quotes contain a character showing excitement, in any odd manner of saying it, does that mean we should count it as actual gibberish? Last time I checked, gibberish was random babbling, not yelling because of excitement or anything otherwise. Also, just because a character is exclaiming something like Yay, No, or laughter, doesn't mean their mindlessly speaking in tongue, does it? So, what it comes down to is, do we remove all quotes that are to a short point, and that are exclaiming remarks?
As I gave examples on the Baby Daisy [[Talk:Baby Daisy|talk page]], many characters plenty good quotes would qualify for this, thus leaving certain pages to the point of "quote-less". Now, I know most people know what a quality quote is, but I also know that a quote shouldn't have to be entertaining or a long sentence in order to define characteristics of said character. Please take in to account the outcome of your vote, and also take into account that gibberish is quite literally random babbling and not actual wording.
P.S: Choosing support doesn't mean quotes considered gibberish will stay, it means quotes not to be confused with gibberish cannot be removed for that reason. Therefore, certain quotes would stay, while certain quotes would be removed. According to ACTUAL consideration.


'''Proposer:''' [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]] April 22, 2008, 23:01<br>
===Give ''Taiko no Tatsujin'' an article===
'''Deadline:''' April 29, 2008, 17:00
''Taiko no Tatsujin'' has had numerous crossovers with the ''Mario'' franchise throughout its history. This extends to not only the songs being playable, but actual ''Mario'' characters showing up and being animated in the accompanying videos in the earlier games.


====Support (Keep Certain Quotes Considerably Acceptable, Regardless Of Length Or What's Being Said)====
*The DS version has "Super Mario Bros." as a track, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=870WLPGnnKs using imagery from the games].
#[[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]] Per above, lol.
*The Wii version includes "New Super Mario Bros. Wii Medley." and "[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkcrnhCfrtw Super Mario Bros.]" Notably, the videos include [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO31iswKX84 actual characters and imagery from the game showing up]. The former has nearly every enemy from the original ''Super Mario Bros.''
#[[User:HyperToad|HyperToad]] Per Fixitup. Plus, Peach has a "HELP!" quote. WTF?
*''Taiko no Tatsujin Wii U Version!'' has "[[Fever]]" from ''[[Dr. Mario]]''. There are also Mario and Luigi costumes for Don-chan and Katsu-chan.
*''Nintendo Switch Version!'' has "[[Jump Up, Super Star!]]" from ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]''.
*The 2020 version brings back "Super Mario Bros." and "Jump Up, Super Star!", also including a "Famicom Medley" track using "Fever" from ''Dr. Mario''. These tracks are present in many of the arcade versions. Playing "Super Mario Bros." will have mushrooms and [[Super Star]]s appear [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxXo0oHzZg when notes are hit].
*''Blue Version'' has [[Cappy]] has an equippable hat.
*''Rhythm Festival'' has a medley of music from ''Super Mario Bros.'', re-used from earlier games.


====Oppose (Remove All Quotes Containing Those Of Examples Listed, And Any More Found Throughout Other Pages)====
''Mario'' has paid it back with the serial-numbers-filed-off ''[[Donkey Konga]]'' and [[Don-chan]] being a playable character in ''[[Mario Kart Arcade GP DX]]''. Since there's overlap between the franchises, and they've had a decent history together, I think ''Taiko'' is deserving of its own article to cover all this in one place.
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} The official definition of "gibberish" may be random babbling, but this Wiki has a different definition. Its any quote that is just a simple stupid expression that says nothing about the character. "NO!" is NOT a valid quote. Why? Its just someone saying "No". Its not unique AT ALL. It says nothing about the character's personality. Any simple quote like this, or any compilation of things like "WHOO-HOO-HOO-HOO! WHEE!", should not be considered a REAL quote. Its not professional, AT ALL. That's my two cents.
#{{User:Wayoshi/sig}} &ndash; per DP. A quote should be revelant and not be a restatement.
#{{User:Blitzwing/sig}} - What's the point of knowing that some guy said random nonsense like "AAHAHAHAH" or "NO"? Those kinds of quotes are a waste.
# {{User:Xzelion/sig}} Perl All.
# {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|Per all. Anybody can scream or cry. Specified quotes like "Only cheaters mess up", make Waluigi different from Peach. Waluigi and Peach have both screamed and cried before, so it's pointless.}}
#{{User:Princess Grapes Butterfly/sig}} Per all.
#{{User:Garlic Man/sig}} - Per DP. Whether they are real words or not, they make no sense at all, and are thus "gibberish".
#Anyone can say "woo hoo!". Only quotes like "Toadette's the winner!" should be kept, because it is unique, unlike "woo hoo!". {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} Per all.


====Comments====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Scrooge200}}<br>
 
'''Deadline''': March 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT
Well you know, DP, when I gave examples of other quotes, that have been here for quite a long time, someone said to me something like, well although this quote is almost the EXACT same line, this one is more humorous, therefore is fine. Does that make sense? I didn't think so. Also,  like I said, not all of these quotes are just, "NO". [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
Also, I don't no if I said this incorrectly above, but I know quotes should be relevant, but I know that not all of these quotes are at all irrelevant. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
 
First of all, I didn't understand what you said. You are treating this like "Since its on other pages, it should be on every page.". That's not the case. The case here should be that ALL quotes like this should be removed from ALL pages, not added to others just cos' other people decided to add them to other articles. And no one is saying they are all just "NO!". SOME of the quotes you gave are fine, most of them are just... No, sorry. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
 
I'm not saying that, I'm saying that's how it was, and I don't see why we are just now getting to that. Naw mean? Well the thing is, on the Baby Daisy talk page, that IS what they were telling me, that all are not allowed. Listen, the accept choice is not to allow quotes that count as gibberish, it's to allow quotes that may be confused because of how they are worded. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
 
I tend to agree with the second option, but wouldn't that also include quotes like "It's-a-me, Mario!", which Mario is famous for? It's an exclamation, yes, and in most cases such quotes should be removed, but I feel we need to make exceptions to this rule. Saying "It's-a-me, Mario!" is very characteristic of Mario, while Baby Daisy saying "Baby Daisy!" is just random. Maybe one day, when she has appeared in more games than ''Mario Kart Wii'', it turns out that she actually commonly uses this phrase as her "identifying feature", but until this point we shouldn't allow that (and the other) quote(s). {{User:Time Q/sig}} 04:33, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 
Somebody give Time Q the "Most logical User of the Year" award! {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
:Yeah... Baby Daisy won't have many good quotes until she's in a game that's not a spin-off. {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 08:30, 23 April 2008 (EDT) I don't think I'll vote just yet, though.
 
Hmmm... I'm preferring the second option. But the word "all" in it's title is a little ominous. We shouldn't need to delete ''all'' the quotes from a page, just ''most'' of them. Leaving a page with no quotes is... Not preferable. {{User:InfectedShroom/sig|Sorry if that didn't make much sense, I couldn't find a way to say it perfectly...}}
 
DP, you just said that only certain quotes listed from the Baby Daisy page should be removed. Then you agreed with TimeQ that none of the quotes were relelvant. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Mario hardly even says "It's-a-me. Mario!" anymore. Aside from that, some of you are ignoring the fact that I stated that supporting this isn't to support quotes like, "No!"/"Wahaha!". It's to allow certain quotes, like SOME of the quotes from the Baby Daisy page. If you are against keeping any of the quotes on the Baby Daisy page, then you are against most of the other quotes used as examples, which I know for a fact hardly anyone disagrees with. As I expected, everyone is misinterpreting the outcome of this proposal. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
:Then make the meaning clearer. Short and concise is a much better way to go then long, rambling and sarcastic. Anyway, the only quote I think is relevant up in your example is "Okey-dokey, yeah!", since "okey-dokey" is something usually uttered by Mario, making it strange coming from Baby Daisy (though the "yeah!" part '''was''' in character with her older self). - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
 
I think it is safe to say how this proposal will turn out, therefore the only type of "work" I will be doing around this type of situation will be resolving it on the Baby Daisy talk page. I know how votes go sometimes, regardless of what I would've liked, it is obvious most of you have a mind set. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
 
While we're on the subject of removing quotes, can someone please put Bowser's Quotes back on his page? I tried to undo the edit that scrapped them myself, but my ancient computer couldn't handle the amount of coding. Also, what's the status about the pages devoted entiurely to quotes? Are they still being constructed or have those projects been abandoned & forgotten? Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but it's not quite enough for a stand-alone proposal, and nobody's done anything about the issues when they're brought up on the individual talk pages. - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
:Ah! About quote pages... I am still making them. I ''did'' kinda abandon them for a bit there, but I am working on it again. :') And also, where is that edit that deleted his quotes? I can't find it in the history. {{User:InfectedShroom/sig}} Note: Go [[:Category:Quotes|here]] for a category of the quote pages.
 
=== Format of Quotes ===
 
Next up, I have noticed articles such as [[Wario]] and [[Princess Rosalina]] have a different format for quotes compared to many other pages. For example, the Rosalina page quotes appear as this:
{{llquote|I'll be watching you from beyond the stars|Rosalina|[[Super Mario Galaxy]]}}
While a format of quotes used on other pages look like this:
*''"Oh, I've won! Hooray for me!"'' - ''[[Mario Power Tennis]]''
You'll notice the first style is obviously "neater" and more formal than the second, but takes up much more space. Sooo, we should decide on one quoting system in order to make sure pages follow a specific guideline. One, the first style, or the other, the second style. Obviously this isn't a big deal, but should be addressed. I actually have a hard time choosing myself.
 
'''Proposer:''' [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]] April 22, 2008, 23:01<br>
'''Deadline:''' April 29, 2008, 17:00
 
====Support (Star Using First Format)====
#[[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]] Per above again, lol.
#{{User:Bob-omb buddy/sig}} The first one may be longer but it is much neater.
 
====Oppose (Keep Using second Format)====
#{{User:Wayoshi/sig}} &ndash; This meaning both formats are kept, right? The standard one works well with top of pages, this bullet-formatted one works well for multiple little quotes related to each other. I can incorporate all of these into RandomQuote if I had some time over the weekend...
#{{User:InfectedShroom/sig|Per Wayoshi. Multiple quotes look a bit better when they're in a list, and the <nowiki>{{quote}}</nowiki> looks great on the top of the page. IMO.}}
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] - Per Wayoshi.
#Per Wayoshi. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}
#{{User:Stooben Rooben/sig|Per Wayoshi.}}
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Per Wayoshi.
#{{User:Time Q/sig}}: The "neater" layout takes too much space when there are many quotes.
#{{User:Princess Grapes Butterfly/sig}} Per Time Q More space more KB. (Another pointless proposal.)
#{{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}}How is the first "neater"? It's just longer and more annoying, not neater. In fact, I think the second one is neater. It's bulletpointed, and plus it only takes up one line. And the quote doesn't need to tell who's saying it, we already know from who the article is about.
 
====Comments====
Um, I think there was a reason the <nowiki>{{quote}}</nowiki> template wasn't used like that. I think it was that ALL the quotes on the page would end up on the Random Quote of the Day Template, instead of just one. At least, I THINK this was the reason. I don't remember. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}


Yes, second choice is for both being kept, as in first format at top only, and second used in quotes section. First choice is for first format in both quotes section, and at top of page. [[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
====Support (Bring Us One Degree of Separation Closer to Jimmy Neutron)====
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Makes sense to us; with how many cross references there are both ways, it seems only fair.
#{{User|Hewer}} This should probably be cancelled given the crossover article proposal but I'll support just in case. I previously wasn't sure whether it would get a page under that proposal because the only crossover I knew about was Don-chan being in Mario Kart (and his tiny Smash representation in one of Pac-Man's taunts), but all of this other stuff seems very comparable to what got [[Just Dance (series)]] a page. Now we just need to figure out whether [[Mametchi|Tamagotchi]] gets one...


Yeah, the first format is for the quote at the top of the page, and the second is better for quote lists. It takes up less space, and you don't need to tell who says it; everyone already knows. Is the oppose side for keeping two types in quote lists, or for having only the second in quote lists? {{User:CrystalYoshi/sig}} 08:34, 23 April 2008 (EDT) I don't see how the first is more formal.
====Oppose (No More Megalovania, Please)====


Princess Grapes Butterfly, this one definitely isn't pointless. There are obviously different layouts of quotes on this wiki, but we should use a consistent way, so this proposal helps us deciding which way to choose. {{User:Time Q/sig}} 15:52, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
====Comments' Perfect Math Class====
{{@|Scrooge200}}, have you considered waiting until the proposal [[#Introducing the crossover article|immediately above]] is finished? You would not need to raise proposal for ''Taiko no Tatsujin'' at all if it were to be pass. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:23, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
:Oh, I noticed that, but figured it was more for just ''Zelda''. I'm glad to see we're finally making it out of the Stone Age with our crossover coverage, though. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 15:27, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
::''Zelda'' is just the example I worked with. The proposal itself applies to all manner of crossover. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:30, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
::{{@|Scrooge200}} By "stone age" I assume you mean it's one of the last steps to becoming a wiki centered completely on ''Super Mario''. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:38, March 16, 2025 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 22:53, March 16, 2025

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Monday, March 17th, 05:55 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple sub-issues that can be resolved independently of each other. In a poll proposal, each option is essentially its own mini-proposal with a deadline and Support/Oppose subheadings. The rules above apply to each option as if it were a its a two-option proposal: users may vote Support or Oppose on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then the status quo wins for that option by default. A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

A poll proposal is archived after all of its options have settled, and it is listed as one single proposal in the archive. It is considered to have "passed" if one or more options were approved by voters (resulting in a change from the status quo), and it is considered to have "failed" if all options were rejected by voters and no change in the status quo was made.

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)
Merge intro/outro sections, rename Gameplay section to "Overview" for Mario Party minigame articles, ToxBoxity64 (ended March 1, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy, Waluigi Time (ended February 8, 2025)
Split Animal Crossing (game), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)
Split the modes in the Battles page, Mario (ended February 15, 2025)
Count ongoing serialized comics for latest appearances, Rykitu (ended March 2, 2025)
Split Toad wearing headphones off from Jammin' Toad, PrincessPeachFan (ended March 7, 2025)
Split Super Mario Maker helmets from Buzzy Shell and Spiny Shell (red), PopitTart (ended March 12, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Establish a format for poll proposals on the archive lists

Something that's slipped through the cracks when we invented poll proposals was what we do when we add them to these pages. We can't simply have one link to the poll proposal — the entire purpose of the format is that different parts of it can pass and fail independently of one another. What color do we put a proposal where one thing fails and another thing succeeds in?

I have several pitches for you.

OPTION ZERO
Do nothing. I'm putting this at the front because I want to leave room for any good-sounding solutions beyond the four I'm about to suggest. It's here on the proposal at all because I'm pretty sure I'm legally obligated to put it here, but I'll be honest — I'm not entirely sure what this winning would... mean. Our hand will eventually be forced when our first poll proposal fully resolves, so a format will be established one way or the other.

EDIT: It has been helpfully pointed out that there is a current policy — they are red if they all issues fail, gray if at least one passes and is unimplemented, and green if at least one passes and all issues are implemented. A "one issue changes the color" kind of rule. It's definitely not insensible, but I feel that we could be conveying more information. Still, even if this if the "fail option", we have a policy now, so I got what I wanted even if this one wins.

OPTION ONE
The different issues of a poll proposal share a number corresponding to when the first issue closes. They're listed separately, and distinguished from each other via letters. As an example, the three parts of the Brown Yoshi proposal would slot in at #83A, #83B, and #83C. (That would shove some other proposals down; we could also just append them to the end of the list like normal and brush off the inconsistency if y'all prefer.)

The Brown Yoshi proposal is also a handy demonstration of an edge case we have to contend with — if this proposal passed right now, we would list #83A as red and #83B as gray, but what would happen with #83C, which is still ongoing? This is the aspect on which Options One and Two differ. In Option One, issues are not added to the archive page until they close. The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later

I would like to note that the Brown Yoshi proposal is a remarkably well-behaved example. If the issues were ordered differently, we may at one point have #83A and #83C on the list with no #83B until later.

OPTION TWO
Option Two is identical to Option One except in how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals. In this option, they are added to the list alongside the other issues, and marked with a new color — let's say black.

This prevents the awkward gaps we would be susceptible to in Option One, but it is introducing a whole color for a temporary edge case.

OPTION THREE
Option Three is simpler. We create a new color in the archive for poll proposals — I guess let's say black again. Poll proposals get added to the archive when all issues on them are closed.

This saves space (the other options will have to give fourteen entries to this proposal, but it means the entry on the list doesn't reflect anything about any individual issue's status, such as whether it's been implemented or not.

EDIT: Camwoodstock's pitch below of using three colors (and, implicitly, adding the poll proposal to the archive when it has any closed issues) doesn't entirely eliminate that negative, but it does seem much more useful than just having the one color.

OPTION FOUR
Option Four is simpler still. Each issue is treated as if it were an entirely separate proposal. Each gets numbered and appended to the list when it closes regardless of what anything else in the poll proposal is up to.

The negative of this way of doing it is that the issues of a poll proposal may end up strewn about the list in a way that doesn't really reflect that they're a related thing.

Proposer: Ahemtoday (talk)
Deadline: March 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option Zero

  1. Jdtendo (talk) Per Porple "Steve" Montage in the comments.
  2. Waluigi Time (talk) Per Porple.
  3. EvieMaybe (talk) perple montage
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Porple in the comments, though admittedly this is more of a secondary option to our more robust version of Option Three we pitched. Status quo isn't the worst thing in the world, and we do acknowledge our more robust solution of "dark colors" may be a bit harder to convey as we've been slowly rolling out... Well, a dark mode for the whole wiki. (If it was down to us, the poll proposals would use lighter colors in dark mode, before you ask; of course, if that option somehow wins, we'd be down to help fine-tune it.)
  5. Arend (talk) Per Porple.
  6. Nintendo101 (talk) Per porplemontage.
  7. Salmancer (talk) Oh, huh. I suppose this is a solved problem then.

Option One

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) It's either this or Option Two for me — it's important to me that the issues end up next to each other on the archive and that the status of each one is visible on the page.
  2. Salmancer (talk) There's no rule saying a poll proposal has to be for small things, since part of the premise was reducing the need for large numbers of combination options. There could be poll proposals that have wide scopes, and as such I think we're going to have to stomach the poll proposals with 10+ proposals in them to make it easier to track policy without thumbing through old proposal pages. Also an archive is for the past, not the present.

Option Two

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) See my note about Option One.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary option, but we do think darker shades of the colors (a-la our pitch for Option Three) would be nice. Helps distinguish at a glance what was a poll proposal.

Option Three

  1. Camwoodstock (talk) We would like to pitch a more sophisticated variant of this; 3 new colors. One for a poll that has concluded, one for one that's partially ongoing, and one for a poll that has been partially overturned by a future proposal. Maybe dark green, dark gray/maybe a de-saturated dark green a-la the Shroom Spotlight template, and a dark yellow? The darker colors, of course, to contrast with the non-poll proposals. (On dark mode, we'd probably make these lighter, rather than darker, provided we actually even add dark mode compatibility to the proposal archive colors.)
  2. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  3. Ahemtoday (talk) I definitely see the appeal in having poll proposals under a singular listing, but I think they'd be better served by having one or multiple new colors rather than using the standard red and green.

#Jdtendo (talk) Listing every single poll would probably take a lot of space whereas the whole purpose of a poll proposal is bringing together many similar polls that would be too cumbersome to handle separately. I would prefer having a single proposal listed as "Determine what memes should be on the Internet references page" that users can click on to check the detailed results rather than cluttering the list with a dozen links.

Option Four

Comments

@Camwoodstock — I definitely think your pitch for Option Three is better than the version I was suggesting. I'm not really sure about the pitch for Option Two, though — the letters already distinguish them, and I feel like they'd seem more like separate states rather than a "modifier" on some of the existing ones. Not to mention, wouldn't we need a darker version of every single color just in case? That's a lot of changes to make, and we'd end up running into problems with dark blue, teal, and dark teal; or "dark white", gray, and dark gray. Ahemtoday (talk) 03:20, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I don't quite understand option one and two, as the above rules for poll proposals state "A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done." --PopitTart (talk) 07:09, March 4, 2025 (EST)

Could you explain the contradiction in greater detail? I don't see what you mean. Ahemtoday (talk) 12:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
The options say "The page would only contain #83A and #83B if the proposal passed right now, with #83C being added later" and "...how it handles open issues on partially closed poll proposals" there shouldn't be any instances of archiving partially closed poll proposals, they only close all at once when every entry has been resolved.--PopitTart (talk) 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
So is your position that we should use the lettering scheme from Options One and Two, but only add poll proposals to the archive page when all of their issues are closed? I don't think I agree, but I can add that as Option Five if that's what you want to vote for. Ahemtoday (talk) 22:48, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I feel like this is fine. Either it's red (no change from the status quo so nothing needs to be done), gray (some change was established and there is work to do), or green (some change was established and it's all done). There are other proposals where people list several things to be done, it's not that different, it's just that now we have the ability to vote on each individual thing. But in either case you just click the link to read exactly what was approved. --Steve (talk) Get Firefox 10:56, March 7, 2025 (EST)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Introducing the crossover article

The passing of this proposal would accomplish seven things:

  1. See the publication of the drafted Zelda article discussed in this proposal, titled "crossovers with The Legend of Zelda." (The draft can be viewed here.)
  2. Funnel redirects and disambiguation pages pertaining to Zelda on the wiki to the published Zelda article (i.e., searches for The Legend of Zelda, Octoroks, etc. Fully covered crossover subjects like Link would keep their articles, and this would not preclude a crossover subject from receiving an article of their own in the future if warranted, such as the inclusion of Princess Zelda in a future Mario Tennis or something like that).
  3. Move details pertaining to Zelda from list articles on the site to this one (i.e. all information pertaining to Sheik on the list of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee article would be cleared, and searching for "Sheik" on the site would bring you to this article. Zelda info on the list of references in Nintendo video games article would similarly be cleared. Visitors to that article would be directed towards the published Zelda one when they reach that section of the list article).
  4. Establish a navbox for crossover articles (either a wholly dedicated one, an incorporation into "Template:Culture," or a retooling of "Template:Crossover characters").
  5. Establish the precedent where this can be done for other IPs with which the Super Mario franchise has crossed-over.
  6. Establish a 'Crossover article" section to the MarioWiki:Manual of Style that explains the framework for crossover articles described below. This is to be the standard structure for how other articles are to be structured.
  7. Note that this framework exists on the the crossover section of our coverage policy, and provide a link directing readers to it.

The Super Mario franchise is very much the IP tentpole for Nintendo Co., Ltd. and at least one of the ones for the Japanese video game industry as a whole. Consequently, Super Mario as a franchise and brand has crossed-over with many other franchises, brands, and series over its nearly fifty years of existence - not only sister series developed by Nintendo EAD and R&D, and their successor EPD (i.e. Duck Hunt, Punch-Out!!, Exictebike, Metroid, F-ZERO, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Splatoon, etc.) and those of their external creative partners (i.e. Ape Inc.'s EarthBound, HAL Laboratory's Kirby, Game Freak's Pokémon, etc.), but also fellow ones from other studios like Square Enix, Sega, Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Chunsoft, Ubisoft, Konami, and Hudson Soft. This is not groundbreaking news: Most folks interested in gaming history already know this, especially the curators of the Super Mario Wiki. However, I do not feel like we handle this information particularly well on the site.

A lot of coverage of Super Mario references, homages, allusions, and cameos are nestled within various list articles, inexplicitly at the end of dedicated game articles, or in Super Smash Bros. articles with which there seemed to have been effort to bury on the site and are not wholly about Super Smash Bros. anyways. This coverage, exasperated by recent efforts to reduce coverage on the Super Smash Bros. series: (1.) obfuscates the fact that Super Mario has made references and is referenced in many other franchises outside of Smash Bros. contexts, often in very meaningful ways that are interesting and fun to read about; (2.) mitigates how Mario has been an influence behind some of these other franchises; and (3.) makes finding some bits of information just very difficult. If I, as a visitor of the site, wanted to understand scenarios where Splatoon and Mario have crossed-over, I would not have an easy way to find that all in one place, and I think that is a shame.

frog man!
green lad!

To better cover and consolidate crossover info on the site, I have been drafting what I would like to call a "crossover article" using The Legend of Zelda franchise as an example (with contributions from Salmancer, DryBonesBandit, Memelord2020, RHG1951, LeftyGreenMario, and LadySophie17, and feedback from Super Mario RPG, Doc von Schmeltwick, and Koopa con Carne). This is a long article, and it is not wholly completed yet, but I think it is serviceable example of what I would like us to do going forward. Crossover articles take inspiration from the universe articles from our affiliate Smash Wiki and, as apparent in the Zelda draft, consist of the following sections:

  • Overview : A brief description of what the crossover franchise/series is for those not well versed in the subject and would like to know a little more about it without visiting another site, and how this relates to Mario. It is the create a foundation so the reader is not confused by descriptions or terminology in the other areas of the article. For Zelda, this section may be a bit lengthier than it would be for others because Mario had a lot of direct influence on Zelda as a series.
  • Recurring crossover subjects: for subjects like characters, enemies, bosses, or items that make substantial appearances in or alongside Mario-related media, such as subjects that used to have their own articles on the site. Each subject would be briefly explained so readers understand who they are when mentioned in other parts of the article, have explicit conceptual or design connections with Mario highlighted, and summarize areas where they specifically crossover with Mario.
  • History in the Super Mario franchise: a history section for where the crossover subject is referenced in the Super Mario franchise itself.
  • History in the subject series/franchise: a history section for the inverse, where Super Mario is referenced in the franchise subject of the article. In this case, it is Zelda.
  • Shared history (if applicable): a history section for mutual space where both subjects appear, such as the Super Smash Bros. series, Tetris series, NES Remix series, or other media.

Zelda is uniquely related to Mario and nearly as old, but crossover articles can be written for smaller franchises/series as well. The only requirement for a series/franchise to receive an article of its own is for it to directly crossover with Super Mario within an officially licensed capacity. Articles of this nature should not be written for series/franchise that simply make homages to Super Mario or have elements inspired by it, such as Celeste, Gears of War, or Astro Bot.

I offer three options:

  1. Support: I like the idea of crossover articles and want to see them implemented as described.
  2. Support: I like the idea of crossover articles, but list articles for the Super Smash Bros. series should be left alone.
  3. Oppose: I do not like the idea of the crossover article and do not want to see them implemented.

I know this was a long one, folks. Sorry about that, but the ideas behind this idea are multifaceted. Please let me know if you need additional clarity on anything or if you have any recommended amendments. (Also, if you would like, I welcome you to contribute to the drafted Zelda article! It is in my "community garden" sandbox for a reason.)

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: March 17, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: let's implement crossover articles!

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Link costume pose in Super Mario Maker
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer.
  3. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per proposal with absolutely no second thought. Aside from the obvious value such articles would bring, this practice may incidentally just be the silver bullet for the community's differences on how to cover Smash Bros. content. Nintendo101, even with your inspiration from SmashWiki, I'd say you still managed to think out of the box here.
  4. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  5. EvieMaybe (talk) been waiting a long time for this one. per proposal!
  6. LadySophie17 (talk) Secondary choice, I suppose. Better than no article.
  7. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary option; we'd rather these articles exist, even if the Smash coverage is confusing, than these articles not exist at all.
  8. PopitTart (talk) It has always felt absurd to me that Captain Olimar's presence on the wiki is entirely an entry in List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, despite being directly based on Mario himself and having appearances in Luigi's Mansion, WarioWare: D.I.Y., Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World, Mario Kart 8, and WarioWare Move It!
  9. Jdtendo (talk) Crossover articles are a great idea, and if it can also declutter Smash Bros. list articles, it's even better.
  10. Arend (talk) As long as the content from the list pages are preserved in SOME way or another, I am perfectly fine with this. I think this is a great idea, and the well-detailed draft really sold me on this.
  11. Nelsonic (talk) Makes perfect sense.
  12. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Sounds good to me.
  13. Shy Guy on Wheels (talk) Per all. death to the smash bros lists
  14. Mario (talk) Those list pages are a spaghetti of sadness, mama mia. I love the idea of these crossover pages, wonderful idea (similar to those decade splits for the gallery pages), and they're going to be a massive step up from that mess we currently have. I don't want to keep those lists at all. Their tolerated existence makes our wiki look bad, although absolutely delicious, if you ask me.
  15. OmegaRuby (talk) The list pages are an abhorrent sight and I'd much rather have Smash information contained in these respective crossover articles - if that proves too large for the size of the existing article, then the next logical step would be a subpage for Smash Bros. information, would it not? Per all.
  16. Pseudo (talk) I love how you've put this together, Nintendo101 and other contributors! This seems like a very valuable addition to the wiki.
  17. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per all.
  18. Mushzoom (talk) Per proposal.
  19. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.

Support: let's implement crossover articles, but leave Smash Bros. lists alone

  1. LadySophie17 (talk) Per proposal. I believe the articles would be better focused on the relationship between their respective series and Mario. Detailing all their character's Smash histories (which could get quite lengthy with something like Pokémon) would be better left in the List articles they currently are in.
  2. Sparks (talk) Per Sophie.
  3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per Soph
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Primary option; per Sophie, we worry about the length of some Smash sections, and we feel the organization is fine enough as it is right now for Smash-related subjects.
  5. Tails777 (talk) Per Sophie. I fully agree with making crossover articles to cover the relations another franchise has with Mario, but Smash in of itself is also a crossover and covering the details of these characters in a place that relates to Smash feels better.
  6. Arend (talk) Second option. I'm personally not a huge fan of loss of content, and this option allows this to be fully preserved by leaving it be. While I have been assured that the history sections will be preserved in a form better suited for the article and other details such as Classic Mode routes and stickers/trophies/spirits might be reimplemented, I'm still keeping this as a secondary option to be safe.
  7. Okapii (talk) Per Sophie.
  8. Nelsonic (talk) Second opinion.
  9. LinkTheLefty (talk) This proposal is pretty close to how I imagined covering Zelda subjects had Link's Awakening failed!
  10. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.
  11. Salmancer (talk) Hmm, so I'm going to do this because technically each of a character's special moves gets a sentence to itself on their article/Smash list entry and those just aren't going to fit in a crossover article
  12. Pseudo (talk) Secondary choice.
  13. Weegie baby (talk) Yes.

Oppose: let's not implement crossover articles

Crossover comments

I also happened to start a draft for a Pikmin series article the other day, inspired by Nintendo101's Zelda draft. It's in a much... much rougher state, but I hope it gives an idea what these crossover articles can provide.--PopitTart (talk) 19:31, March 3, 2025 (EST)

@Koopa con Carne thank you for the kind words! - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:30, March 3, 2025 (EST)

Link -- KOOPA CON CARNE 11:32, March 4, 2025 (EST)

Question: One of the proposed points is to "Move details pertaining to Zelda from list articles on the site to this one", but the i.e. states that "all information pertaining to Sheik on the list of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee article would be cleared". Characters on these fighter lists have extensive history sections; will these be moved to the crossover pages as well, or will these be nixed altogether?
Also, what about franchises which currently only have a connection with Mario through Smash Bros., such as ARMS? Will these get a crossover article as well or not? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 12:10, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I don't know. Perhaps we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Ultimately, very few of the franchises within Smash Bros. have only crossed-over with Mario within Smash Bros., and that was at the front of my mind for this proposal. ARMS is one of the few exceptions. I should probably make some sort of list to parse what other series and franchises are within that boat. But what would you want to see, @Arend? - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I don't know... I'd understand not giving those an article given how they only crossover in Smash, but it would be strange to do with ARMS considering it's probably the only franchise with such a distinction that is directly from Nintendo. I can see us making an exception and allowing a crossover article for ARMS regardless, considering how most of the ARMS development team is basically Mario Kart 8 alumni anyway, but that same excuse probably wouldn't work with Kingdom Hearts. Then again, maybe so few franchises would be left that we might as well make crossover pages for those anyway.
Anyway @Nintendo101, you didn't answer my first question regarding the fighters' history sections on the fighter lists, so I ask again: would they be moved to the crossover pages as well, or be deleted altogether and not being covered at all? Knowing precisely what's going to happen to those (as the proposal hasn't really elaborated well on what will happen to those) is pivotal for me to pick which option to choose for, you see. That's kind of why I haven't voted yet. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 20:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I personally envisioned the history sections for each fighter being disseminated within history sections as described in this proposal (one section for Mario, one section for the other franchise, and one section for mutual space where both franchises crossover together). Individual characters would not have the full history sections as present in those list articles, but the individual info would largely be preserved. (I did not think it was important to reiterate granular Smash Bros. info about Stickers, Trophies, Classic Mode routes, etc. because that seemed more about Zelda in Smash Bros. and less about Zelda with Mario in Smash Bros., but Hewer had reservations on that info being discarded, so maybe that can be reincorporated. But everything else, especially info outside of Smash Bros., would be retained.) For example, in my Zelda draft, Ganon is described under the "recurring crossover subject" section, and Ganondorf is mentioned in the relevant sections below where he shows up, like Super Mario Maker, Mario Artist: Paint Studio, Yoshi's Woolly World, and the Super Smash Bros. series. That info is just being presented alongside other relevant Zelda info in those games and others, and I suspect that is the type of info someone searching for "Ganondorf" on the Super Mario Wiki would be interested in. How does that sound? What do you think of the draft? - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:16, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I suppose that works. So long as the content on the original pages is preserved (one way or another), I'm perfectly fine with this. Also, I think the draft looks amazing so far. There are a couple things missing of course (it is a draft, after all), but what is there is very well-detailed. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 06:16, March 5, 2025 (EST)

So is the ultimate plan for these to effectively be a replacement for the Smash list pages? I imagine the lists would start looking a bit barren if things on them get moved to crossover franchise articles. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:07, March 4, 2025 (EST)

I am admittedly not a fan of the fighter list articles on the wiki and I think the information on them would be better served in articles more directly focused on the Super Mario franchise, both for readers and editors. However, I respect the will of those who would rather we keep those articles around. I am not sure if you looked at my Zelda draft, but it does omit more granular information specific to the Super Smash Bros. series, like stickers, trophies, Classic Mode routes, special moves, or NIOLs for individual characters. I would rather this article emphasize how Zelda engages with Mario in other contexts. If folks would rather Super Mario Wiki continue to hold onto the more granular Smash Bros. info on the fighter list articles, they could be retained for those purposes, I imagine. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:47, March 4, 2025 (EST)
Well, there are two voting options for people who want both. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:52, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I find Classic Mode routes in particular a bit odd to remove since they often involve Mario characters/stages/etc. (and I guess a similar argument could possibly be made for stickers), but I understand for the stuff with no particular Mario relevance.
Another thing I just thought of: we already have Pushmo (series) and Just Dance (series) as guest appearances, and this proposal passed to make a page for the Animal Crossing series (technically the proposal was just to make a page on the game, but every single voter agreed to do a series page instead). Would this proposal affect these pages? Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:44, March 4, 2025 (EST)
I had touched base with some of the users involved in those proposals. I do personally think it would make sense for all of these articles to have similar structure to one another - I think that uniformity would make them easier for readers to jump between them and find what they are looking for. However, maybe @Kaptain Skurvy, @Nelsonic, and @Mushzoom can provide their two cents. Would you want the Pushmo, Just Dance, and Animal Crossing articles be grandfathered into this proposal? It would just provide some structural guidelines and inform how redirects and disambiguation pages relevant to these series would be handled on the wiki. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:01, March 4, 2025 (EST)
Yeah, it would make sense to apply this to those articles for consistency (and Pushmo technically crosses over in Smash as well, as a spirit). So a list of franchises to split could look something like:
Major non-Smash crossovers ("major" meaning "would take more than a couple of sentences to fully explain"): The Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Sonic the Hedgehog, F-Zero, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Pikmin, Punch-Out!!, Rhythm Heaven, Kirby, Metroid, Excitebike, Pushmo, Just Dance, EarthBound, Kid Icarus, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Banjo-Kazooie, maybe Star Fox, maybe Duck Hunt, maybe Balloon Fight, maybe Clu Clu Land, maybe Fire Emblem, maybe Street Fighter, maybe Ice Climber, maybe Bayonetta?, not sure if "Game & Watch" really counts as a franchise, Minecraft technically counts but would probably be redundant to split
Minor non-Smash crossovers and/or appearances only as amiibo costumes: Pokémon, Wii Fit, Xenoblade Chronicles
Minor non-Smash crossovers: Metal Gear, Castlevania, Tekken
No non-Smash crossovers: Persona, Fatal Fury, ARMS, Kingdom Hearts
I probably missed something. I'm assuming that franchises whose only crossover is non-fighter representation in Smash (like a stage or Assist Trophy or something) don't count. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 05:29, March 5, 2025 (EST)
Forgot about The Legendary Starfy, that would qualify. There's also I Choose You! from Mario Maker, which might barely push Pokémon up to "major". Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:13, March 5, 2025 (EST)
@Nintendo101 I'm fine with that. Mushzoom (talk) 02:30, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
@Nintendo101 Yes. This makes perfect sense, and the grandfathering approach would allow these series to get more mainstream attention, which is never a bad thing. New series with a significant amount of Super Mario content would also likely be considered for a crossover article as opposed to being relegated to the list of references in Nintendo video games or the list of references in third-party video games. Being placed on said lists works for games with small amounts of Super Mario content (i.e. Drill Dozer or Borderlands 2), but doesn't for games with larger amounts of Super Mario content (i.e. Punch-Out!! or Mobile Golf). Nelsonic (talk) 11:31, March 5, 2025 (EST)

This is probably a separate proposal, but should the Link's Awakening article be outright merged with the new crossover one? LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:14, March 6, 2025 (EST)

Not an invalid idea, but I agree that is better the focus of a future proposal. This one does not address non-list articles. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:35, March 7, 2025 (EST)

Add headings for first topics of talk pages that lack one

Based on the vote so far, this proposal may be eligible to close one week early. Please use {{proposal check|early=yes}} on March 17, 2025 at 23:59 GMT and close the proposal if applicable.

When users create a talk page, they don't always create a heading for their first topic. As a consequence, talk pages sometimes start with a discussion, then there's the table of contents (TOC) and then the remaining topics. For instance, this is the case for Gallery talk:Donkey Kong Card Game (trading cards). It is ugly and inelegant, and it's even worse on mobile because this initial topic takes up a lot of vertical space and never gets collapsed; it is quite a pain having to scroll down an entire discussion just to access the TOC that lists the other topics.

To solve this problem, I propose to add a heading at the top of the first topic of a talk page if it does not have one. That way, the TOC will be at the top of the page (as it should be) and the first topic will be listed along with the other topics instead of being separated from them.

The title of the new headings could be "(First topic)", enclosed in parentheses to indicate that this was not a heading from the original poster; the heading title is open for discussion. If this proposal passes, the aforementioned page would look like this.

Proposer: Jdtendo (talk)
Deadline: March 24, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: add a heading to first topic if it lacks one

  1. Jdtendo (talk) Per proposal
  2. Technetium (talk) Good idea
  3. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  4. Pseudo (talk) Seems useful for navigation!
  5. Camwoodstock (talk) Works for us, and would make it marginally easier to tell when a talk page should be split. Per proposal.
  6. EvieMaybe (talk) per all! very good idea
  7. LadySophie17 (talk) per all. That has always bothered me.
  8. Ahemtoday (talk) Very good to establish consistency.
  9. Nelsonic (talk) Per all.
  10. Rykitu (talk) Per all. Finally consistency.
  11. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.
  12. Weegie baby (talk) The fact there are no headings on the first topics of talk pages annoys me so much 😤
  13. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Consistency is good.

Oppose: don't add headings to topics

Comments (first topic heading)

Give Taiko no Tatsujin an article

Taiko no Tatsujin has had numerous crossovers with the Mario franchise throughout its history. This extends to not only the songs being playable, but actual Mario characters showing up and being animated in the accompanying videos in the earlier games.

  • The DS version has "Super Mario Bros." as a track, using imagery from the games.
  • The Wii version includes "New Super Mario Bros. Wii Medley." and "Super Mario Bros." Notably, the videos include actual characters and imagery from the game showing up. The former has nearly every enemy from the original Super Mario Bros.
  • Taiko no Tatsujin Wii U Version! has "Fever" from Dr. Mario. There are also Mario and Luigi costumes for Don-chan and Katsu-chan.
  • Nintendo Switch Version! has "Jump Up, Super Star!" from Super Mario Odyssey.
  • The 2020 version brings back "Super Mario Bros." and "Jump Up, Super Star!", also including a "Famicom Medley" track using "Fever" from Dr. Mario. These tracks are present in many of the arcade versions. Playing "Super Mario Bros." will have mushrooms and Super Stars appear when notes are hit.
  • Blue Version has Cappy has an equippable hat.
  • Rhythm Festival has a medley of music from Super Mario Bros., re-used from earlier games.

Mario has paid it back with the serial-numbers-filed-off Donkey Konga and Don-chan being a playable character in Mario Kart Arcade GP DX. Since there's overlap between the franchises, and they've had a decent history together, I think Taiko is deserving of its own article to cover all this in one place.

Proposer: Scrooge200 (talk)
Deadline: March 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support (Bring Us One Degree of Separation Closer to Jimmy Neutron)

  1. Scrooge200 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Makes sense to us; with how many cross references there are both ways, it seems only fair.
  3. Hewer (talk) This should probably be cancelled given the crossover article proposal but I'll support just in case. I previously wasn't sure whether it would get a page under that proposal because the only crossover I knew about was Don-chan being in Mario Kart (and his tiny Smash representation in one of Pac-Man's taunts), but all of this other stuff seems very comparable to what got Just Dance (series) a page. Now we just need to figure out whether Tamagotchi gets one...

Oppose (No More Megalovania, Please)

Comments' Perfect Math Class

@Scrooge200, have you considered waiting until the proposal immediately above is finished? You would not need to raise proposal for Taiko no Tatsujin at all if it were to be pass. - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:23, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

Oh, I noticed that, but figured it was more for just Zelda. I'm glad to see we're finally making it out of the Stone Age with our crossover coverage, though. Scrooge200 (talk) PMCS Mustard Cafe Sign.png 15:27, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
Zelda is just the example I worked with. The proposal itself applies to all manner of crossover. - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:30, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
@Scrooge200 By "stone age" I assume you mean it's one of the last steps to becoming a wiki centered completely on Super Mario. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:38, March 16, 2025 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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