MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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<div class="proposal">
==Writing guidelines==
<center>http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png</center>
''None at the moment.''
<br clear="all">
 
{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
==New features==
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
===Split the list of ongoing talk page proposals into sections===
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
Isn't it weird how the main page proposals are split between "New features", "Removals", "Changes", and "Miscellaneous", yet the talk page proposals are all in one big list? Even though there's way more talk page than main page proposals? I think that's pretty weird.
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
 
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
;The benefits of sorting talk page proposals:
|}
*Makes individual proposals easier to spot and parse by breaking up the list into easier to read chunks
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed with the signature code <nowiki>~~~(~)</nowiki>.
*Groups similar proposals together
*Parity with main page proposals
 
;The downsides of sorting talk page proposals:
*The list stops being fully chronological
*I can't think of another downside
 
As per [[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] on the Discord server, the categories should be "Splits", "Merges", "Moves", and "Miscellaneous", since they're by far the most common reason folks make a talk page proposal.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|EvieMaybe}}<br>
'''Deadline''': May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Split the talk page proposals====
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} ''Thank'' you. This is well overdue, as the TPP list has been kind of a rat's nest as of late; literally any organization is well worth it, in our opinion. Per proposal.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} This kind of feature parity is quite useful, especially when the list has a lot of proposals on it!
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per EvieMaybe.
 
====Do not split the talk page proposals====
 
===="Talk the proposal split" page (Comments)====
What if a proposal falls into multiple categories? For instance, [[Talk:List of Smash Taunt characters#Doing something about this page|this]] was both a merge and move proposal, [[Talk:Cheep Cheep (bird)#Move back to Cheep Cheep (bird) and/or split Puncher|this]] was both a move and split proposal, [[Talk:Bad Luck Space#Remerge with Unlucky Space, take two|this]] is both a merge and split proposal... {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:08, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
:either "Miscellaneous" or whatever the most relevant category is, same way as if a main page proposal fell into multiple categories. up to the proposer's discretion. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 13:20, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
 
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''
 
==Changes==
===Split lists of changes from remakes' articles===
(OK, it has been like ten years since I last made a Proposal, so forgive me if something is wrong.)<br>
 
It has come to my attention, from '''trying''' to browse the [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|TTYD Switch remake]] article, not as an editor, but as a player looking for specific information, just how awfully nightmarish it is to navigate it when 80%+ of the content is a massive list of changes that, while interesting, should definitely not be the focus of four fifths of the article (nor the first proper section in it, but that's not the focus of this Proposal), particularly when many people searching for the article have possibly only played the remake and as such this information would be mostly irrelevant at best. We already split glitches, staff, beta elements, etc... Why not this?<br>


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Henry Tucayo Clay}}<br>
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
'''Deadline''': May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
##Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
##Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
##Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#At the deadline, the validity of each vote and the discussion is reviewed by the community.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as '[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum NO QUORUM]'
#A user calls the result of the proposal and takes action(s) as decided if necessary, and archives the proposal.


The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after school, weekend nights).
====Support====
#{{User|Henry Tucayo Clay}} - Per proposal


So for example, if a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is indeed a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.
====Oppose====
#{{User|YoYo}} If you're going on the page for the remake specifically, chances are you are looking for what changes there are. Splitting all that information off would reduce the page for the remake into almost nothing comparatively, defeating the purpose of the page to begin with.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} What's the point of having reissues split from the original game if the article doesn't cover the changes that are present? Isn't that, like, the main reason they're split in the first place? The [[Virtual Console]] version of ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' isn't split because...it's just ''Super Mario Bros.'', but the [[Game Boy Color]] version of ''[[Donkey Kong Country (Game Boy Color)|Donkey Kong Country]]'' is split from the [[SNES]] version of ''[[Donkey Kong Country]]'' because it introduces changes such as [[Candy's Challenge]], [[Funky Fishing]], [[Necky Nutmare|a new level]], etc., and most people are gonna want to read about these changes on the reissue's article! Just makes something so simple so confusing.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all. Some releases (specifically enhanced ports) have minimal changes (such as ''[[Luigi's Mansion 2 HD]]'', ''[[Donkey Kong Country Returns HD]]'', and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe]]''), so this would strip most of the content from those pages. And in the cases of full remakes, like ''[[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe]]'', ''[[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)|Mario vs. Donkey Kong]]'', ''[[Mario Bros. Returns]]'', ''[[Super Mario Advance]]'', and ''[[Super Mario 64 DS]]'', the page would just end up becoming a paragraphs long. For example, if the changes between ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' and ''[[VS. Super Mario Bros.]]'' were split off into a separate article, the ''VS. Super Mario Bros.'' article would simply discuss the production of the game, how it was never released in Japan, and its [[Arcade Archives]] port. This would also result in drastically shortening the pages for ''[[Super Mario All-Stars]]'', ''[[Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World]]'', ''[[Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition]]'', and ''[[Super Mario 3D All-Stars]]'', since the main selling point of those games is their changes from the original version.
#{{User|Arend}} Splitting the changes off would result in the remaining page being ''really'' barren in order to avoid [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#Repeated content|repeated content]]. At that point, what would be the point of keeping the remake split, then?
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Now, admittedly; we can see the merit of listing the content of a game outside of the context of "what's different in this port?". We killed "Once And Only Once" for a reason; sometimes, it's nice to just. Have a table of what exactly is in that specific incarnation of the game. The issue is, that's not currently the state the majority of remake articles are in, and these lists are either most, or ''all'', you have. The ''TTYD'' remake page, and our personal bugbear, the ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions]]'' page in particular, would become about as short as a page like ''[[Super Mario Bros. Special]]'', and those are multi-hour long RPGs versus a 2-or-so hour long platformer game. In a world where these pages are more direct about the contents of their remakes beyond a bullet-pointed list, this would be fine, but we are not there yet. Therefore, the lists stay on the same page.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per Camwoodstock. a decision like this should come from changing how we cover reissues entirely. with our current reissue coverage policy, splitting the differences is basically splitting the main meat of the article.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all.


__TOC__
====Comments====
@YoYo: If you are specifically looking for changes from the original to the remake, wouldn't a dedicated article make more sense, then? --{{User:Henry Tucayo Clay/sig}} 13:33, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
:What else would you look for in a remake's page other than the changes? If you're looking for original info, you go to the original game's page. If you're looking for what the remake added/changed/removed, you go to the remake's page. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 18:34, April 21, 2025 (EDT)


<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
===Rename "List of (game) staff" articles to "(game) credits" and include what happens in credits sequences===
"Credits" is generally the proper term when listing staff in media. As for the latter part, while we do have an article about ending [[Parade]]s, I think it couldn't hurt to mention what happens while the credits roll in the article opener. e.g for ''Super Paper Mario''{{'}}s article: "During the credits, images of scenes throughout the game are shown". Listing the staff itself will remain unchanged.


== New Features ==
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nightwicked Bowser}}<br>
=== Pie For Everyone ===
'''Deadline''': May 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT


I was sifting through old files the other day, and I happen to think "What could make this job better?" Well, the obvious answer was pie.
====Both====
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Per proposal
#{{User|Rykitu|Rykitu credits}} Per proposal


So, I'm proposing that we have a selection of delicious pies available to any and all of our editors 24/7. Flavors include apple, cherry, blueberry and freedom (due to monitory constraints, it might be wise to limit ourselves to just those flavors). Further, these pies would be made and hand delivered by Wayoshi, using his, and I quote, "1337 wiki skillz".
====Only rename articles====


Think about this for a moment. If out active users had a hot, fresh slice of grandmas straight from the oven pie hand delivered to them while they edit....well, just think of the high quality articles that we would gain. A full, satisfied stomach is a power force.


'''Proposer''': {{User:Ghost Jam/sig}}<br>
====Only include credits sequence information====
'''Deadline''': Nov. 3rd, 15:00


====Delicious Pie====


#{{User:Ghost Jam/sig}}
====Neither====
#[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] As a beleiver of fascism, I know that the pie achieve greater control on the citizen and help create a better state. Glory to the pie!
#Per Ghost Jam XD {{User:Mr. Guy/sig}}
#{{User:Mr.Vruet/sig}} I disagree with the pie idea but we could REWARD them some how....
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} Gimmie, gimmie, *more*!  I love anything that enriches the commune.  Or the communism.  Whichever.
#{{User:Luigibros2/sig}} How can you go wrong with pie?


====No Pie for You (AKA COMMUNISM)====
#[[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]] - This is pure nonsense.  I also believe this proposal is so ridiculus, and I am '''voting for its removal'''.  And I am a communist so I guess I am in the right section.
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] - Per SoS (except I'm an anarchist, not a communist). I get that this a joke and I'm being a bit of a stick-in-the-mud, but the wiki is for creating ''professional'' articles about ''Mario''. Leave the jokes for your Userpages.
#{{User:Uniju :D/sig}}...Did someone hack his account just to make a spammy proposal? <_<
#{{User:Master Crash/sig}} This is by far the most ridiculous, useless proposal i've ever seen.
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Virtual Pie = Totally worthless. -_-
#[[User: Booster|Booster]] -- Ugh.
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} - I don't like pie. Give me milk!
#{{User:King Mario/sig|Per Master Crash and Son of Suns}}
#{{User:Toadbert101/sig|Per Uni...}}


====Comments====
====Comments====
I vote for glasses of milk instead of pie...
Would this also apply to games that don't have a credits roll, like [[Super Mario Bros.]]? I think it would be misleading to refer to the [[List of Super Mario Bros. staff|list of staff]] as "credits" if so. {{User:Dive Rocket Launcher/sig}} 08:06, April 24, 2025 (EDT)


...er, yes, what exactly are you trying to say? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 12:41, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
===Make a guideline for covering generic subjects that have a recurring and recognizable design in the ''Mario'' series===
{|class=wikitable style=float:right;width:25%
!colspan=4|Know the difference!
|-
|width=15%|[[File:SMG Penguin Artwork.png|100px]]
|width=35%|'''''Eudyptula mariosixtyfourus'':'''<br>stubby, "chibi" build; generally blue-feathered; capable of speech; can man a vehicle
|width=15%|[[File:Pinball Penguin.gif|50px]][[File:Penguin MIMCD.png|50px]]
|width=35%|Who?
|-
|[[File:MK8 Asset Model Snowman.png|100px]]
|Wears a scarf and a blue, tilted bucket for a hat. Number one cause of car accidents during snowfall. Might be sentient.
|[[File:SnowmanDKJB.png|50px]] [[File:SPP Snowman.png|40px]]
|Little Timmy's first snowpeople.
|}
A [[Talk:Penguin#Scope|discussion at Talk:Penguin]] began over the structure and scope of the wiki's [[Penguin]] article. The article focuses almost exclusively on the blue-feathered, friendly race of creatures found throughout ''Mario'' games, while relegating information about other instances of non-specific penguins that do not fit this description to a brief Notes section. Some users believe that the article should be a catch-all for critters in the series that are called simply "penguins", resemble real penguins, and fill some role related to gameplay or plot. Others think that the current article is best reserved for the design unique to ''Mario'' and have suggested creating a different, dedicated space on the wiki for the penguins that do not use this design.


:I was thinking that we could have a 'Pie Button' on the header bar. A user could simply click it when he/she wants pie. The button would set off an alarm on Wayoshi's computer, directing him to hax0r the pie. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 12:48, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
A similar issue arises with the page [[Snowman]]. Like penguins, snowmen appear in various shapes and sizes, some having features uncharacteristic of their real life counterparts (such as bananas for a mouth and arms). However, the ones in the ''Mario Kart'' series stand out as the most consistently designed--having a two-segmented body, a bucket for a hat (always tilted to the side), two oval beady eyes, a stumpy nose, a scarf, and, in latter appearances, a tiny smile. One such ''Mario Kart'' snowman is even a playable character in ''Mario Kart World'', cementing its kind as the ''Mario'' brand's de facto snowman look.


This proposal is perhap the most hilarious thing I ever saw here, good job.
Insofar as English-language material is concerned, this situation is unique to Penguins and Snowmen in the ''Mario'' franchise. However, the franchise is no stranger to featuring generically identified things based on some kind of real life counterpart, such as [[crab]], [[frog]], and [[cheese]], as well as featuring creatures that are also based on a real world thing, but were given a distinctive ''Mario'' twist, such as [[Dolphin]] and [[Moo Moo]] (which I assume will soon be moved to Cow as per ''Mario Kart World''). The more these two categories grow, the more overlap there's bound to be, so I figured it's best we hashed out a guideline on how to manage their coverage. If no further instances of such an overlap is to emerge, then I suppose this proposal is ultimately still useful in sorting out the current Penguin/Snowman sitch.
[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]]


What The heck is this supposed to mean? Pie?
The proposal centers on the two courses of action suggested in the Penguin discussion I linked above.


{{User:Master Crash/sig}}
;Option 1
:Oh, for goodness sakes, this is the most ridiculous proposal I have ever seen! Why would you want to add Virtual Pie!? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
:: Did any of you ever heard of something called "Tongue-in-c
heck humor"?
[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]]


Did you ever hear of "Serious threads"? Serious threads are for serious business. Proposals are serious thread. {{User:Uniju :D/sig}}
Separate a given generic subject between articles based on whether it follows a recurring, recognizable design in the ''Mario'' series.
*In this case, [[Penguin]] continues to focus on the race of blue penguins introduced in ''Super Mario 64'', while a different article is created to elaborate on all the other nondescript penguins in the series that may play some kind of role. Such an article would cover, for instance, the penguins in ''[[Pinball]]'', which [[Special:Diff/3772388|were removed from the parent article a while ago]] despite having a gameplay role, however minor. The penguins featured in "[[7 Continents for 7 Koopas]]" would also be mentioned here because they play a role in the episode's climax.
*Similarly, the [[Snowman]] page becomes exclusively focused on the ones that follow the ''Mario Kart'' design, while a separate page is made for all the other snowmen in the series, such as the ''Jungle Beat'', ''Galaxy'', ''Super Princess Peach'', and possibly the ''Mario Kart: Super Circuit'' ones.


This is the last time I joke with you people. -_- -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 17:40, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
As for the manner of disambiguating these articles, because I don't wish this proposal to become overly restrictive, I'll suggest something in the comments.
:ASPLOSION! {{User:Xzelion/Signature}} The Pies go boom
::Ok, nearly the last time.


::You all don't seem to understand just how 1337 Wayoshi really is. He is '''so damn 1337''' that he can actually hax0r a piece of pie, physically, through your computer screen. There is nothing virtual about it.
If two or more designs exist in the series for a real world thing and each is established and recurring in their own right (like the ''Super Mario 64'' Penguins), they are each given an article. This hasn't happened yet to my knowledge.


::And I think it would be hilarious to leave a message on his talk page stating that the community has decided that he needs to start baking pies. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 17:45, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
;Option 2
:::The entire is stupid, anyway. Like Vruet said, Pie is a stupid idea, but Users should get a reward of some kind. Maybe something like what Wikipedia has. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}


=== Special Mainpage ===
Cover all instances of a generic subject with a direct real world counterpart in one article and in due detail. In this scenario, the current Penguin article contains detailed information on all the penguins I've described above, sectioned accordingly. The same applies to the Snowman article, which would keep its current structure.


I think that the main page should be more holday wise like for instance, Halloween is coming and we can put the page full of Halloween colors and some pics created by user to go on the main page.
;Option 3


'''Proposer''': {{User:King Mario/sig}}<br>
Only dedicate an article to the distinctive ''Mario'' subject and use a "Notes" section in that article to quickly go over instances of that subject that do not follow the same distinctive look. The Penguin article would remain the same as currently, and the Snowman article would be modified to reflect the former's structure.
'''Deadline''': 21:55 Nov. 3rd


====Put this on the page when holidays are coming up====
'''The winning option is turned into a guideline at [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects]].'''
#{{User:King Mario/sig|My reasons given above}}


====Don't put this on the page when holdays are coming up====
;Note
#{{User:Uniju :D/sig}}Waste of time. Dumb idea anyway... N/O.
Whichever course of action is chosen to become a guideline, it will only apply to subjects that can clearly be construed as "generic" and non-derivative, and which have a long history of being referred to after their real life counterparts in multiple languages. This guideline is not to be enforced on subjects whose identity is contentious, or whose nature is significantly more based in fiction than real life.
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} I had to think about this one. But, sorry, we should try NOT to add Fanart to the Main Page. Also, it would be too much trouble to try and make the Main Page look different.
*If there is divergence on whether a subject is meant to be generic, e.g. [[Sidestepper]] (simply named "[[crab]]" in other languages) or [[Preying Mantas]] (mostly ever called "[[jellyfish]]"), a separate discussion is required.
# {{User:Xzelion/Signature}} Per all
*The beer-throwing [[Penguin (enemy)|penguins]] in ''Wario Land II'' are out of the proposal's scope, because their appearance and behavior are too derivative of real life penguins, and they have not appeared often enough to make a compelling case either way.
# [[User:Alphaclaw11|Alphaclaw]][[User talk:Alphaclaw11|11]] no some people(not saying me) dont celebrate some holidays.
*Though there are many things named "[[Ghost]]" in the Mario franchise, their relevant articles on the wiki most often discuss particular characters that happen to have a generic name (like the [[Ghost (Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3)|boss in ''Wario Land 1'']] and [[Ghost (Wario Land II boss)|the one in ''Wario Land 2'']]), distinctive creatures with a tenuous connection to ghosts (the wispy, worm-like [[Ghost (Yoshi's Story)|things]] in ''Yoshi's Story'', the [[Ghost (Donkey Kong 64)|costumed Kremlings]] in ''Donkey Kong 64''), technical terms unrelated to supernatural apparitions, and a select enemy "species" encountered in the ''Luigi's Mansion'' series. The only two true instances of generic ghosts in the extended Mario franchise are [[Ghost (Wario Land II enemy)]] and [[Ghost (DK series)]], but because I foresee contention on whether these need to be covered on the same page, this proposal excludes them altogether.
# {{User:Cobold/sig}} Per all. It's still fine for you to create [[Special:Mypage/Main Page|your own version of the Main Page]], where you use the special templates and bookmark that. Noone's going to stop you to apply special colors to that.
#{{User:Purple Yoshi/sig}}-Does that have to do with Mario? No!
#{{User:Master Crash/sig}} Thats what userpages are for.


====Comments====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
'''Deadline''': May 11, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Option 1: Cover generic subjects based on how established their design is, collect information on non-recurrent, non-established designs in a separate article====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} These smaller but still significant appearances of generically named subjects are still important! That said, subjects like the Mario 64 penguins feel strange to even regard as generic given how well-established and uniquely designed they are; it seems to me that these are more like Mario-original subjects that just lack a unique name.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Especially given the remark in the comments about giving these more generic appearances the (generic) label in the comments. This helps create a rather clear divide from "Mario-ified version of a real-world thing" and "a generic real-world thing", and the alternative of eventually having to mention [[Community Service]] on the [[Moo Moo|"Cow"]] page once ''[[Mario Kart World]]'' releases does not appeal to us one bit; better to get ahead of the curve when it comes to preventing weird WikiJank™.
#{{User|Exiled.Serenity}} It does seem to us that things like these penguins are usually presented as 'the Mario character from that game' so it makes sense to give it its own space. Still worth documenting the others, but also important not to imply the Blue Penguin From Mario is just another incidental generic penguin.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per proposal. Having a more generic article for the generic depictions feels way better than lumping them with the more stylized depictions the ''Mario series'' occasionally creates.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} tentative support, assuming "design" is not restricted to just visual appearance. Some subjects can have radically different appearances between titles but have the same behaviors, roles, and mechanical tactileness between them, and those can be indicative of continuity and shared, ontological identity as much as a shared visual appearance. Personally, I am not invested in having an article for unrelated subjects that happen to be based on real-world penguins. None of them really appear in any context that would make an article on them particularly robust or earnestly accurate, in my view, because none of them have substantial roles or were conceived by the same people. They just happen to be realistic penguins. However, others express interest in that type of documentation, and I do not want to be the reason why they can't.
#{{User|Kirby the Formling}} both generic and stylised creatures articles have good reasons to exists, so per all.
 
====Option 2: Cover all instances of a generic subject on one article, whether its design is established or not====
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - A lot of these are subject to series' legacy-based art direction; ie, snowmen in the ''Mario Kart'' games tend to (though not always) have a design based on the MKDS take on the MK64 ones, but they're still just as much snowmen as any of the others. With that said, I think "[[small bird]]" can stay separate with the ''Odyssey'' section's multiple designs, if only because ''Odyssey'' also concurrently features [[Bird (traveling)|larger birds]].
#{{User|Nintendo101}} alternatively, perhaps articles like that for the penguin, cow/moo moo, snowman, etc. can be restructured conceptually where all of the information is housed together under one article, but emphasis is put on the recurring, more ubiquitous ''Mario'' designs in how the article is written. Perhaps info on penguins in ''Mario is Missing'' and ''WarioWare'' can be included in ''the'' penguin article if these one-off looks are not treated with the same weight as the more prolific design that debuted in ''Super Mario 64''.


I could see a special main-page for April Fool, but otherwise, that seem pretty useless.
====Option 3: Only afford a page to the generic subject with an established design, note other instances succinctly in one section of that page====
[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]]


== Removals ==
====Do nothing (generic subjects)====


===Irrelevant links===
====Comments (generic subjects)====
Regarding option 1, maybe give the page for non-established designs of penguins and snowmen the "(generic)" identifier. Open to better suggestions. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 06:39, April 27, 2025 (EDT)


I have been noticing that odd links have been appearing. For instance, in the peaches Final Smash article, Peach Blossom, it syas she charges up. The 'charge' links to Goombarios charge attack, which has nothing to do with this meaning of charge. I propose we remove these irrelevant links.
I feel like there should be a fourth option for whatever [[Earth]] is up to. TLDR: There's a section for the Earth of the real world and a section for Earth-y fictional planets. Basically Option 3 without the shortening. It's a bad option, since those should just be separate articles, but it is an answer to this that is currently on the wiki. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 06:58, April 27, 2025 (EDT)


'''Proposer''' [[User:Inanimate|Inanimate]]<br>
Do WarioWare Gold's [[coin]]s get caught up in this? They don't have a design in the middle like every Mario-ian coin. The WarioWare: Get it Together coins do, and match Mario-ian coins at that. It does suggest a risk of option 1 splitting design histories between multiple pages, which I don't care about but some people do. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 06:58, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
'''Deadline''' 12:00 Nov 4th
:Very good observation. I always found the scope of the [[Coin]] article to be rather messy, and I'd prefer if it followed a guideline akin to what is proposed here. In other words, should option 1 or 3 garner majority in this proposal, the coins in ''Wario Land 4'' and ''WarioWare Gold'' (among other instances) are distinguished accordingly from the established design that appears to be stamped with the Roman numeral "'''I'''" ([[File:CoinMK8.png|20px]]). That said, some coins seen throughout the franchise do not have the same design as the ''Super Mario Bros.'' coin, but are clearly derivative of it, namely:
:*The star-minted coins in ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Super Mario Pinball''. ([[File:SM64 Yellow Coin art.jpg|20px]])
:*The Yoshi-themed coins in the ''Yoshi'' platformers. ([[File:YIDS Coin.jpg|30px]])
:Without careful consideration, guideline 1 and 3 would sweep these up as well. How to handle these? My suggestion is to use the parent "Coin" article for instances of yellow/gold coins that pertain to the larger, established ''Mario'' "currency" that comprises [[Red Coin]]s and [[Blue Coin]]s. There is a clear hierarchical connection between the ''64''/''Pinball''/''Yoshi'' coins and these that the ''Wario Land 4'' coins, for instance, do not have (in fact, you can construe those as a different currency altogether [[File:WL4-Coins.png|40px]]). {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 10:53, April 27, 2025 (EDT)


===Remove===
I think this proposal would benefit from greater clarification on what constitutes as "generic" and what qualifies as a "recurring design." Because to me, something based on a real-world in appearance but has pretty consistent mechanical utility in-game is a recurring attribute of the subject, like [[fish]] or [[flower (environmental object)|flower]]. Similarly, I think the [[T-Rex]] from ''Super Mario Odyssey'' and ''Mario Kart World'' make sense in the same article despite one looking more realistic than the other. However, there are subjects with generic names in the language of the people that created them, like [[Maw-Ray]], but I would not support turning that article into one for any and all moray eels in the ''Super Mario'' franchise. That seems unhelpful and diluting. The [[Dolphin]]s, which are not even supposed to be generic dolphin animals in Japanese, also should not be an article for any dolphins in the ''Super Mario'' franchise.


===Keep===
To me, I do not think it is accurate to consider penguins to be generic subjects. They are as discrete to me as Toads or Gearmos, and I think it is in-part because they are typically speaking characters with cultures. I think to elevate realistic animal penguins from ''Pinball'', ''Mario is Missing'' or ''Jungle Beat'', which appear very infrequently and to which the blue talking birds have no relation to within the context of creative works, would be diluting and inaccurate. I'm not even sure the realistic-looking animal info is helpful/accurate to even have in the penguin article, as opposed to simply covering those subjects on their respective game and level articles where relevant. They are not the same subjects, in my view. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:14, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
===Quotes?===
:I'm fully aware that the terminology used in the proposal can be confusing depending on how you look at it, but that wasn't by design. I just couldn't find less unwieldy terminology to work with. To be clear, I completely agree with the notion that the ''Super Mario 64'' Penguins, the "Lifton" Dolphins, and the "Moo Moo" Cows are ad hoc ''Mario'' species, just like Goombas and Toads. However, "generic" can also describe any of the Goombas you stomp in games, relative to individuals like [[Goombario]] and [[Goombella]], and by that definition, your Moo Moos and Liftons are also rather generic, which makes them even more painful to distinguish from a "generic ''generic''" entity like the cow in the [[Community Service]] microgame. I could have used the term "non-generic generic" for those ''Mario'' species, but that's... obtuse. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:39, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
::For clarity, I didn't at all think the lack of clarity was intentional or anything like this. I agree this franchise makes this a difficult topic to discuss all on its own. But thank you for the other examples - they are helpful. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:43, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
::The ''Mario Kart'' cows were stylized based on what they could make for a simple pre-render on the Nintendo 64. I don't see anything that distinguishes them from standard cartoon cows, while Toads and Goombas are obviously more fantastical as sapient fungus. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:56, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure the underlying reasons why the cows look the way they do makes them more generic than Toads or Goombas, especially since this same design has been exercised for these cows for multiple decades. There are many different ways one can design a cartoon cow - only [[:File:MK8 Wii Moo Moo Meadows Course Icon.png|one way]] to design the ones from Moo Moo Meadows, or at least since 2005. While organizationally inconvenient for some, or at least on this wiki, I am not sure why this cow is not a discrete ''Mario'' subject on par with the likes of [[Maw-Ray]], which is simply referred to as a "moray eel" in Japanese. Perhaps I am missing something. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:06, April 27, 2025 (EDT)


Lately i've been searching around the wikis quotes, and have seen quotes like "whupee heeheeheehee!" when thats just a bunch of giberious and also something like AHHH!!! thats just someone yelling! should we get rid of these?
Out of curiosity, with regards to [[Small bird]]s, what would happen if option 1 won? There's definitely a recurring type of small birds since ''Super Mario 3D Land'' that even had gameplay relevance in ''Mario Sports Superstars'' and then was put among the many other small bird species introduced in ''Super Mario Odyssey''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:02, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
:''Super Mario Odyssey'' achieves its tactile diversity by have many of the same objects appear in each kingdom with a unique look that matches the regional topography, and I think small birds are part of the same design philosophy. Given this, as well as the fact that ''The Art of Super Mario Odyssey'' refers to nearly all of these birds as 小鳥 and this is also the Japanese name for the white birds of the Mushroom Kingdom, I think it would be a better reflection of the same to keep them in the same article together - as stylistic renditions of the same subject. This is in part why I was resistant to the idea that physical appearance was the only criterion to qualify "design." - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:16, April 27, 2025 (EDT)


'''Proposer''': [[User:Master Crash|Master Crash]]<br>
==Miscellaneous==
'''Deadline''': 22:00, Nov. 4th
===What is a game?===
Per {{@|Camwoodstock}}'s comments on the ongoing [[Talk:List of games#A location for the water games, pocket pinball machines, Water Teaser, and other similar items|electronic water-related proposal on the list of games]]. The way that a game is considered a game is currently arbitrary, with board games being split to one list, card games being relegated elsewhere, [[Play Nintendo]] getting its own list, and [[Nintendo Today!]] quizzes all being merged into the app's article. This proposal aims to decide what gets on the [[list of games]] article, since there isn't anything on that page that explicitly states that the games listed have to be video games (minus the text "organized by video game system", but this can be changed). To note, this proposal is not suggesting that anything should be removed from the list, the goal of this proposal is to figure out whether or not anything should be added to the list of games.


====Remove====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nelsonic}}


#{{User:Master Crash/sig}} my Reason is given above
====Do board games move to the list?====
#[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] I agree, quotes like "AHHHH!!!!" are useless and make the wiki look less professional.
{{Proposal outcome|failed|7-10|Do not add board games to the list}}
#{{User:Luigibros2/sig}} they are very useless quotes that make us seem like we well add any thing to articles.
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} A perfect example of a good quote, can be seen on [[Snake (character)|Snake]]'s article. Quotes like "AHHHH!!!!" have no meaning, as Glowsquid says.
#[[User:Coincollector|&euro;zlo]]
#[[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]] 'Nuff said.
#{{User:Purple Yoshi/sig}}-Quotes are supposed to tell us about the character.
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} - Quotes from the gibberish sounds from Superstar Saga are as useless as quotes saying "I'm the best", as there are a dozen of other characters with exactly the same or a very similar quote.
#{{User:Smiddle/sig}} per everyone above.
#[[User:Fly_Guy_2]] We need better quotes, like [[Nastasia]]'s.
#{{User:3dejong/sig|qoutes like "Yahoo!" and "Ameena pasta gumba ray bardo" don't belong either.}}


====Keep====
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments; this feels like kind of a no-brainer, and we're surprised these have been excluded from the Games list for as long as they have been. Board games are like, a known concept, they've been around for millennia, and heck, games like [[Mario Party-e]] exist as a hybrid board game/video game. Excluding board games feels very arbitrary, just because they aren't "video" games, but we've included the ''Game & Watch'' titles for forever, with basically no contention whatsoever, despite those not technically meeting the definition of being a "video" game.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} The article is titled the "list of games," not the "list of ''VIDEO'' games." It'd be nice if this page just covered every game of every type, especially seeing how I consider board games (or anything of the sort) to be closer to games than merchandise. Besides, they are called board ''GAMES'', so why shouldn't they be included on the "list of ''GAMES''"?
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all. Board games are pretty unambiguously "games".
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Camwoodstock. While I understand Nintendo101's point about board games often being promotional tie-in products, they are still Mario franchise media in their own right, and a kind of game at that.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all. As a big Mario Party fan. I feel like board games fit to the category of games


#{{User:Arend/sig}} DELETING QUOTES? They're lots of fun! C'mon, keep them!
;No
#{{User:Peachycakes 3.14/sig}} I havn't seen many of these useless quotes.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} This is not to disparage board games or other types of media of this nature, but I think it would be healthier for our site to have distinction between a "video game" and "promotional tie-in media and products." I do not think being interactive is enough for it count as a "game" within the context of a video game-oriented franchise, in the same way I would not include instruction booklets in a list of books because they have readable text. This kind of stuff should be supported on the site, but not here.
#{{User:King Mario/sig|I hav to agree wit Peachy and Arend and then it would be pretty pointless to have a Quote of the moment}}
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} per Nintendo101. There are a lot of different mediums for games in this world, but it's indisputable that the Mario franchise manifests itself most often in video games, and I believe this specific list is better off focusing on those, with an appropriate move to "List of ''video'' games". I can see the appeal and use of a page for Mario games that are not video games, though, and I support creating that. The wiki currently considers these games to be "merchandise", which I consider apt for some (like the shampoo bottles) but something of a stretch for others (board games).
#I don't see many of those here. {{User:Plumber/Pignature}} 07:55, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Koopa con Carne. I'm not denying that board games are games, but they're not ''video'' games, and I think "List of video games" would be a more useful page for this wiki about a primarily video game franchise than "List of games".
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all. I would rather the wiki not mix the core media of the Mario franchise (video games) with miscellaneous pieces of merchandise such as board games.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per Koopa con Carne
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.


====Comments====
====Do card games move to the list?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|6-10|Do not add card games to the list}}
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT


At the very least, they shouldn't be the lead-in quote. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments, and the same rationale behind board games. Sure, it's not a "video" game, but this is List of Games, not List of Video Games.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock again.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per my board game vote.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Camwoodstock and my above vote for board games.


I'm conflicted on this one. True, things like "Ahhh!" are a bit redundant in principle. But if you know the context it could have meaning. For instance, in one of the ''Mario Party'' games, Peach goes, "Booooo!" Alone that sounds like a pointless, generic utterance, but if you actually hear it, it's '''hilarious'''! All in all, I just can't decide which way to vote. - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
;No
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Same as the board game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.


:See, most of the point in the quote on the page is to show the personality of the character. So, unless the screams have something to do with the personality of the character, remove them. Example: Instead of having "Princess Peach!" as Peach's quote have "Oh? Did I win?" so we can see a bit about her personality...and stuff like that... http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif '''[[User:Paper Jorge|Paper Jorge! I give paper cuts so stand back!]]''' http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9276/papertoycf7.gif
====Do party games (i.e. Jenga) move to the list?====
::Definately get rid of them from the "main quote" thing, but can you leave them in the article?  Check out [[Princess Daisy|Daisy's]] quote page for what I'm talking about. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 22:49, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
{{Proposal outcome|failed|7-10|Do not add party games to the list}}
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT


Arend: I don't think you understand, this proposal won't delete ALL quotes, only boring and generic one like "AHHH!!!" or "I'm the best!'.
;Yes
[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]]
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. This is gonna be appearing a few more times...
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock yet again.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Also per my board game vote.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Also a mere semantic distinction between party games like this and board games, in my view.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Things like Jenga are such family games, like ''Mario Party''. I have the feeling they should've already been classified as games long ago.


Well, the ones i was sorta talkin about was only stuff like: erto robartello berto, or AHH!!! or all that other junk.
;No
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote. (You also do not italicize Jenga.)
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Same as the card game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.


{{User:Master Crash/sig}}
====Do physical games (i.e. ''Barrel of Monkeys''-style things with physical characters and pieces) move to the list?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|6-10|Do not add physical games to the list}}
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT


A quote is suppose to describe the character/article as best as it can (see Snakes' page). If the random gibberish defines the character best it should stay, but if its just some useless quote cause you couldn't think of something else it should be replaced. {{User:Xzelion/Signature}}
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. You get it, right?
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock once more.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Yet again per my board game vote.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per my other "yes" votes.


Exactly
;No
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Same as the party game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.


{{User:Master Crash/sig}}
====Does ''Super Mario Ride'' move to the list?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-10|Do not add ''Super Mario Ride'' to the list}}
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT


'''[[User:Arend|Arend]]''', '''[[User:King Mario|King Mario]]''', we are not saying to remove ALL quotes. We are only saying to remove worthless quotes, like "AHHHHH!!!". All quotes that actually MEAN something will be kept. Get it? {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. It is currently listed under "Other Super Mario-themed games" on the [[list of merchandise]].
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. I'm a maximal inclusivist when it comes to these things, so I think anything anyone could plausibly conceptualize as "a game" ought to be classified as a game for navigational purposes.


Oh, well I'm still putting it on keep {{User:King Mario/sig|KEEP}}
;No
=== "What Other Users Think Of Me Lists" ===
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} From the looks of it, those are toy cars; those are toys, not games. Them being listed as "other Super Mario-themed games" feels like a bit of a misnomer.
These things are just dumb. We got rid of Cool User Lists, and these are only worse. As you can most likely see, they have caused nothing but bad, and flame wars. Some of these might be OK(Like [[User:Xzelion|Xzelion's]]), but others go over the limit(Like [[User:Pokemon DP|Pokemon DP's]], even if they are all MY quotes. <_<). These are mostly just the depressed people trying to make themselves look more hated, anyway, *continues into a long rant about DP that would getting him ****ing banned if he actually said it*. Therefor, I propose that we ban these, as we did with the Cool User Lists(Which NEVER ACTUALLY CAUSED ANYTHING!).
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote above.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Rides are not games.
#{{User|Pseudo}} If it's a toy and not a game, it probably shouldn't count. This is a slightly different category of item.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


'''Proposer''': [[User:Uniju :D|Uniju :D]]<br>
====Do ''Play Nintendo'' games move to the list?====
'''Deadline''': Oct. 28, 15:00
{{Proposal outcome|passed|9-0|Add ''Play Nintendo'' games to the list}}
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT


==== Remove ====
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. There's a dedicated HTML section now.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} With an HTML section in tow, we feel it's only fair.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Sure.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} We have other browser games on the list, why not these?
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. Even if the term we were using was "video game" instead of just "game" I would think these should count.
#{{User|Pseudo}} These seems like games as much as a typical Flash game of old, [[List of games#Adobe Flash|which we already include in the list of games]], so this seems more clear cut than any of the others.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per Nelsonic and Camwoodstock.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


#{{User:Uniju :D/sig}}I am the proposer, and, blah, blah, blah...
;No
#{{User:Moogle/sig}} Just as bad as the cool users list.
#{{User:Ghost Jam/sig}} Same boat as Cool Users lists. If someone really wants to know about someones past, they can look in the contribution history.
#{{User:Shroobario/sig}} Is wrost then Cool user list and Hated User list (if they existed) make people think bad things of other users! Everyone has a bad point but you should just see the good ones!
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} My vote is in responce to DP's staement that the Wiki has a right to know.  If you have an issue with another user that isn't publically on the Wiki, it deserves to remain private.  And really, why post it here just because an issue is related to the Wiki?  If it matters that much sysops should be contacted to resolve the issue.
#{{User:King Mario/sig|I agree with all of the users above}}
#{{User:Plumber/Pignature}} Per Stumpers, '''strongly'''. It is not the wiki's business to know of every arguement someone has with somebody.


==== Keep ====
====Does ''Nintendo Today!'' move to the list?====
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Hey, if someone flames someone, the Wiki has a right to know about it! These lists show which people have flamed who, allowing them to get what they deserve when they flame. And, you only made this proposal because you are mad at me for adding all of your flames towards me onto my list. You coult end up becoming banned for what you wrote on this Proposal!
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-11|Do not add ''Nintendo Today!'' to the list}}
#[[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]] Just cause its for good intentions. So what? If you act like a lurdo [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lurdo] everyone should know 'bout it.
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT
#[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] - See my comment below.
#{{User:Peachycakes 3.14/sig}} I was against getting rid of cool user lists, and now people are still getting into flame wars without them. But i'm still against restricting stuff you can put on your userpage.
#{{User:Time Q/sig}} Per Peachycakes, just because ''some'' might misuse it doesn't mean for me that nobody should be allowed to use it.
#[[User:Fly_Guy_2]] Pokemon DP's right.
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} - Put on your user page what you want. If there is flaming because of it, then ban the flaming. No reason to fight the cause, there are not too many incidents around.
#{{User:Master Crash/sig}} Not all these quotes are negative, i mean quotes like what Zach121 has is good, or funny ones like 3d's Waluigi and Petey stuff.
# {{User:Xzelion/Signature}} Per all, Besides mine are only kept for humor. >.>
#Per DP, thouugh I don't have one [[User:Mr. Guy|Mr. Guy]]


==== Comments ====
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. It has many interactive elements, such as quizzes.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. I understand everyone else's hesitation, but Nelsonic has a point!


DP: -_-' Why do YOU ALWAYS THINK THAT MY REASONS ARE SELF-CENTERED? WHY THE H*** CAN'T YOU JUST DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT I'M NOT DOING THINGS FOR ONLY MYSELF!!!!! {{User:Uniju :D/sig}}
;No
:Did I see some anger? It is the path to the dark side![http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_side] [[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]]
#{{User|1468z}} The only thing that comes the closest to the definition of game and is related to ''Mario'' is the silhouette quizzes, which despite their name are actually just articles with a profile of a character without any interactive elements. It's not that different from something you would find on Nintendo's website.
::Whoa, whoa, whoa, calm down, Uniju. You continue like that, you will get in BIG trouble. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} To be honest, we're a bit on the fence, but we're leaning on this for now. Maybe if there were more active game elements to them, but as it stands, these are ''just'' articles at the moment with no real interactive elements aside from. Clicking it and reading it.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Shinya Takahashi ("[https://www.youtube.com/live/9OqoRxXUjGA?t=34m58s <nowiki>[Nintendo Today]</nowiki> is something a little different that's not a game]").
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all. If you really think about it, if we count Nintendo Today as a game, that would mean the Super Mario Wiki would be considered a game.
#{{User|Pseudo}} This seems like not so much of a game to me as a platform for games (in addition to other media); at most, I'd support adding this app's individual included games to the list.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all. ''Nintendo Today!'' is basically just a daily newspaper (similar to ''[[The 'Shroom:Main Page|The 'Shroom]]'').
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


I think we should just change it to "Feedback". There should be no negative things. This wiki is not about pointing out if someone says something rude. Why can't people just ignore it?{{User:Purple Yoshi/sig}}
====Does ''[[Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land]]'' move to the list?====
:If you flame someone, you should get in trouble for it. You shouldn't be able to get away with anything bad that you do. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-2|Add ''Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land'' to the list}}
::Which is why we have Sysops, suspensions and bans. Making black-lists only adds to the problem. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 15:13, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT


That's true, just don't overdo it. We all know about what happens if it happens a lot, even without quotes.{{User:Purple Yoshi/sig}}
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. It was an interactive VHS tape that required the user to press buttons at certain points.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} By our own definition of it being an "interactive game", yes, even if it's just a VHS analogue to those Play Nintendo quizzes, you can get a question wrong and stuff will still happen.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per all.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all. Somewhat surprised it wasn't already being considered a game.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Eh, more or less? It's sort of an edge case but it's still primarily intended as interactive, just in an unusual format. It is definitely a "game" that relies on "video" for displaying its contents.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Checks both the "video" and the "game" parts of "video game". As long as {{wp|Dragon's Lair (1983 video game)|''Dragon's Lair''}} is considered a video game, this should too.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.


When I made this list, I had a purely humoristic  goal in mind, I didn't try to make myself look hated and other non-sense. You are about the only one that take these lists seriously, and the only one to star flame war over them. As Zakor1138 said, if you act like an idiot, it's only natural for the other to know it.
;No
[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid, and the cool user list DID cause my flame wars, check my archive if you don't believe it.]]
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} I have mixed feelings  about this one, but I'm turning more to the "No" side. I just don't feel like interactive cartoons can be considered games.


DP, I looked at your user page, and you posted countless censored f-bombs.  If Uniju is going to get in trouble for what he posted above, and I posted them on my page wouldn't I be also using the language and the flaming? I thought we could only use those in quotes of Nintendo characters, etc., so how do we justify this?  I'm not saying this because I think Uniju's comments are justified, by the way.  I'm saying it because I want all of this anger stuff to get gone, quoted or freshly written. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 01:22, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
====Do [[Gallery:Miscellaneous_merchandise#Rides|rides]] move to the list?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-9|Do not add rides to the list}}
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT


i agree with PY.
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. They were made by [[Banpresto]], usable in arcades, and required money to play.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal, and per my ''Super Mario Ride'' vote.


{{User:Master Crash/sig}}
;No
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} You don't really interact with it aside from sitting on it; if there was a more game-ified aspect to it, kinda like Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, maybe? But as it stands, this is a little too non-interactive.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Once again, rides are not games. Except ''[[Būbū Mario]]''. That is a game.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems like not so much a game as an automated experience; games require interactivity of some kind, I'd think.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Once again per Camwoodstock and Rykitu.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


Most are kept for only humor reasons, however, some are just kept to cause bad blood in the case of Pokemon DP. Therefore if they all stay, the bad blood intensifies, and if they leave, then the bad blood evaporates and we can find humor elsewhere. {{User:Plumber/Pignature}} 08:30, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
====Do the remaining water games on the list of merchandise move to the list?====
:Pokemon DP's page is also a really good example of the intensification.  You can see Uniju's emotions flare as a result.  It makes me wonder if Uniju would have calmed down if the list wasn't there.  Personally, I like User peace and happiness and whatnot, so I hate flame wars.  If these just cause flame wars to last longer, why are we doing them? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 12:39, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> May 3, 2025, 23:59 GMT


==Changes==
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original proposal's comments; they are interactive games with a blatant physical, mechanical element to them. The lack of "video" isn't a hurdle so long as the ''Game & Watch'' games exist.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock twice more.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per all.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Yeah, it's pretty much a type of game. Per Camwoodstock's comparison to Game & Watch.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all.


===Discuss what goes on the Main Page===
;No
Today I finally took a look at the stuff featured on the Main Page, and saw this in "Did You Know?": <br> "Ax Mummies are ax-wielding mummies [...]" <br> Yeah... as elaborate as that is, I don't think it's absolutely neccessary for information like that to be on the first page people come across on our Wiki.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote. This is not comparable to Game & Watch.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.


So, I'm proposing that we have weekly discussions on what kind of stuff makes it to the main page; this includes what's worthy of the news section, what quotes we should use, etc. etc. etc.
====The Comment Games====
{{@|Nintendo101}}, unless us and everyone we know has been using it ''very'' wrong, we don't really see how the board game vote applies to [[Nintendo Today!]]... ;P <s>not that it matters, as we agree that Nintendo Today! would be overkill to include either way unless they were more interactive, but y'know,</s> {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:23, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
:Also, Wikipedia does italicise ''{{wp|Jenga}}''. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:30, April 5, 2025 (EDT)


'''Proposer:''' [[User:Dodoman|Dodoman]]<br> '''Deadline:''' 21:00 Nov 3
If we decide to keep the non-video games off the list of games, I feel like a name change to "List of video games" might be a good idea (though the link on the main page can keep it shortened to "Games" for simplicity if need be). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:43, April 5, 2025 (EDT)


====Yes to Discussions====
:{{@|Hewer}} I have an idea. Could we add a new header on the list of games (underneath the iOS stuff and the ''LEGO Super Mario'' Roku/Sky Italia games) for "physical games" or "non-electronic games", thus keeping the base list intact up to said section? [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 13:21, April 8, 2025 (EDT)
#[[User:Dodoman|Dodo]] I'm the proposer, yada yada.
::I suppose that'd work too. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:25, April 9, 2025 (EDT)


====No to Discussions====
If [[Play Nintendo]] is added to the list, would we include every game in the "Play" category or will we also include the quizzes, polls, puzzles, matching and painting games? If that is the case, I am warning you that there are hundreds of those and would probably take like 75% of the whole page. {{User:Rykitu/sig}}
#[[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]] - That takes a lot of time.  Anyone can change those main page boxes, so if something is wrong or is unneeded, you can simply change it.  You can also discuss what should be in those boxes on the template talk pages, in case their is a conflict.
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] - Per SoS and Wayoshi.
#{{User:Cobold/sig}} - I excuse for my bad choices of Trivia items in this section. I guess it would be better if anyone except me would actually be working on it. This is not the case. Why discuss on it when you're not working?
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} - Sometimes, it seems like there's so much politics that I don't want to touch things because I'm afraid of the reaction.  Please don't make the main page like that, too!  Besides, trivia is supposed to be about new articles, so there's not much to argue about.  Look at the recent changes, then edit.  BAM!


====Comments====
:{{@|Rykitu}} I was thinking that for the duplicates, we could link to a handful of the most relevant ones and then stick something along the lines of "''For a complete list of [[Play Nintendo]] quizzes, see [[list of Play Nintendo skill quizzes]]''" underneath the segment. [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 13:11, April 9, 2025 (EDT)
I'm sure it was just a minor lazy mishap. Everything in [[MarioWiki:Maintenance/Main Page]] has worked so far. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 20:56, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
::Ok, that works! {{User:Rykitu/sig}}


== Merges and Splits ==
@JanMisali: I think Nelsonic was mistaken about the amount of interactivity in Nintendo Today. The misleadingly named "quizzes" are just pages that describe a character, with no more interactivity than [https://mario.nintendo.com/characters/ the websites that the descriptions come from]. At that point, what piece of software ''wouldn't'' you consider a game? Is [[Nintendo Music]] a game? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:17, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
===Paratroopa Page===
:I fully sincerely believe anything with any amount of interactivity at all can be considered a game. Websites, apps, web browsers, activity books, DVD menus, and pretty much all software. I think it's better to cast a wide net and include things that 99% of people would say aren't games than it is to be too narrow and exclude things 1% of people would say are games. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 10:27, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
I think [[Paratroopa]] and [[Red Paratroopa]] should be split into two articles because they're '''different'''. Who agrees?
::That's how you make a definition so broad that it's useless. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:11, April 15, 2025 (EDT)


'''Proposer''': [[User:Fly_Guy_2]] <br>
At the risk of sounding dumb, what exactly are "(electronic) water games"? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:52, April 18, 2025 (EDT)
'''Deadline''': October 29th, 17:00
:{{@|Hewer}} Electronic water games are usually defined as a game with both plastic and electronic components (with the electronic components usually eing more minor, such as the game requiring batteries or including lights, a timer, or sounds) that requires the playing field to be filled with water in order to play. The current "electronic water games" section on the list includes both normal water games and the electronic variety, however, as I do not believe some of them have electronic components (unless they require batteries). [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 10:10, April 19, 2025 (EDT)


==== Support Split ====
===Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers===
#[[User:Fly_Guy_2]] I am the proposer, blah blah blah.
For some infoboxes like [[Template:M&LSS enemy|RPG enemy infoboxes]] or [[Template:DKC TV episode infobox|show episode infoboxes]], the work is displayed in a header (like "''Paper Mario'' enemy" or "''Super Mario World'' episode"). Others, like the generic [[Template:Level infobox|level infobox]] (which has only "Level" in a header) and the [[Template:Minigame infobox|minigame]] infobox, indicate the game in a regular field.
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} Paratroopa should be a disambiguation page that links to Red and Green Paratroopas.  We don't put Goomba and Gloomba on the same page, so I would support this split.


====Oppose====
I propose all subject infoboxes with a "Game" field or similar (exceptions and specific details below) adopt the work-in-header-cell format (like "''Super Mario World'' level"), and the "Game" or "Appears in" field be changed to "Reappearances" (present only in cases where the subject reappears, like retro ''Mario Kart'' courses or returning ''WarioWare'' microgames).
#[[User:Mr. Guy]] There the same
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} As Mr. Guy said, they are the exact same thing.
# lla rep {{User:Xzelion/Signature}} (Per all)
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] If we split up Green and Red shelled Paratroopas we'd have to make new pages for the Yellow and Blue-shelled variations too. Then we'd have to do the same to the [[Koopa Troopa]] colour morphs to be conistant...


====Comments====
Why do that? In order to maintain consistency in the presentation of this type of info, and also because it makes more sense than having the work be indicated in a regular field, as the work is not an internal attribute of the subject (like a level's time or code, or an enemy's stats), but part of its context. Also, making work identification more clear is useful when the same infoboxes are widely used for subjects belonging to different games and series.
Umm, then why that red Koopa and normle Koopas toghther in one aarticle? Well that's your anser. Also Fly Guy, you've added some useles info o other pages {{User:Mr. Guy/sig|ZOMG}}
:Pokémon DP, they are not exactly the same. In classical Mario platformers, Green Paratroopers cannot really fly, but merely jump around, and Red Paratroopas fly in the air. This is the same way in Super Smash Bros. Melee, by the way. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 05:23, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
::"If we split up Green and Red shelled Paratroopas we'd have to make new pages for the Yellow and Blue-shelled variations too. Then we'd have to do the same to the Koopa Troopa colour morphs to be conistant..." (Quote from above...) What's so bad about that?  Sure, it's work, but we're a Wiki!  <cheerleader> "We write, fight, oh, yeah, that's right!" </cheerleader> {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 17:08, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
:::The problem is that aside from their walking speeds there is no difference between blue and yellow Koopas except thier shell colour. All the differences between the various colours of Shells are already described on their respective pages ([[Red Shell]], [[Yellow Shell]], etc.), therefore, so why should we make '''another'' set of articles?. All it will do will get people frustrated at the number of tiny little pages they have to visit when they could have easiy read all the differences between the races on one [[Koopa Troopa]] page. Then there are the acceptions to the rule (like [[Parakarry]] and his ''light'' blue shell). Finally, you can look at the Koopa Troopa species from a biological point of view. For instance, there are three colour morphs of the Common Grackle, but in field guides they only have one article for the entire species, in which they describe (and picture) the different morphs. That one article includes just as much information as three differenet ones would have, only it was more effective in delivering that info in a clear and percise manner, making it easier to follow than three articles might be, making it better. We want to be a profesional Wiki, and what better way to acomplish this than to emulate the professionals. - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]


===Time Machines Page===
That would affect every infobox that has a "Game" field currently, the [[Template:Course infobox|course infobox]], and infoboxes for specific games.
The [[Time Machine]] page consists of three officially named (one being conjectural) Time Machines, all with significant content to have its own article. Also they effect gameplay (sorta).


'''Proposer''': {{user|Xzelion}} <br>
In the end, the infoboxes affected by this change would be:
'''Deadline''': October 29th, 17:00
*[[Template:Board infobox]]
*[[Template:Course infobox]]
*[[Template:DDRMM song infobox]]
*[[Template:DK64 level infobox]]
*[[Template:DKC level infobox]]
*[[Template:DKC3 world infobox]]
*[[Template:DKJB kingdom infobox]]
*[[Template:DKR course infobox]]
*[[Template:DLC infobox]]
*[[Template:Golf course infobox]]
*[[Template:Kart infobox]]
*[[Template:Level infobox]]
*[[Template:LM ghost infobox]]
*[[Template:LM portrait infobox]]
*[[Template:LM room infobox]]
*[[Template:Minigame infobox]]
*[[Template:Mission infobox]]
*[[Template:M&L attack infobox]]
*[[Template:M&S episode infobox]]
*[[Template:M&S event infobox]]
*[[Template:M+RSOH planet infobox]]
*[[Template:MKDD kart infobox]]
*[[Template:MSM court infobox]]
*[[Template:PM item infobox]]
*[[Template:PMCS location infobox]]
*[[Template:PMTOK location infobox]]
*[[Template:Power Shot infobox]]
*[[Template:Race course infobox]]
*[[Template:SMG boss infobox]]
*[[Template:Space infobox]]
*[[Template:Tennis court infobox]]
*[[Template:Tour infobox]]
*[[Template:World infobox]]


====Support Split====
(As for [[Template:Space infobox|spaces]], [[Template:Kart infobox|karts and kart parts]], [[Template:PM item infobox|''Paper Mario'' item]], which have an "Appears in" field, I suggest we indicate the ''series'' in the header instead (''Mario Party'', ''Mario Kart'' and ''Paper Mario''), since they are not really "tied" to the game they debuted in, but are series-wide elements.)
#{{User:Xzelion/Signature}} Per Above
#[[User: Booster|Booster]] -- Three of them are officially named, and have different designs and functions.
#[[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]] - Per all.
#[[User:Dodoman|Dodoman]] - Per all (except Walkazo >_>).
#{{User:Stumpers/sig}} On one condition: see below.
#{{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Per all.
#{{User:Purple Yoshi/sig}}-They are from different games, and are for different things.
#{{User:Time Q/sig}} Per all.


====Oppose Split====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bro Hammer}}<br/>
'''Deadline''': <s>April 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Comments====
====Support: replace regular "Game" fields and similar in infoboxes with a header cell====
My vote stands as long as we can use the [[Time Machine]] page to discuss the concept of time machines... and we could do double duty by listing time machines on the article and making it a psudo-disambiguation page. Sound good?  Of course, if you want to just make the article disambiguation until someone gets around to writing it, be my guest. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 22:45, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
#{{User|Bro Hammer}} Per proposal.
:I agree, there is also an unnamed time machine appearing in [[Super Mario: Verloren in der Zeit|this comic]] which could excellently be placed on the [[Time Machine]] page. {{User:Time Q/sig}}
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I like uniformity.
::Both good ideas. And Dodoman: "except Walkazo"? Pourquoi?!? - [[User:Walkazo|Walkazo]]
#{{User|Salmancer}} I see the appeal.
:::Speaking of that comic, does anyone here speak German? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 01:25, 26 October 2007 (EDT)


::::At least two users are from Germany and have wonderful English: [[User: Time Q|Time Q]] and [[User: Grandy02|Grandy02]].  -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
====Oppose: do not change any infoboxes====
:::::I am from Germany... - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 13:54, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
::::::Good to know, Sos and Cobold! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 12:40, 27 October 2007 (EDT)


== Miscellaneous ==
====Comments (Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers)====
My understanding is that Power Shots are exclusive to exactly two Mario Tennis games, ''[[Mario Power Tennis]]'' and ''[[Mario Tennis: Power Tour]]''. And of them, only twelve appear in both games. At that point, you might as well just have those twelve them say "Mario Power Tennis Power Shot" and say they reappear in ''Mario Tennis: Power Tour''. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 13:45, April 11, 2025 (EDT)


''None at the moment.''
I made a mock-up of what the infobox might look like in [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:Jdtendo/Bacassab&oldid=4863131 my sandbox], and I'm not convinced that having an additional header cell is useful or visually appealing. I'm also not convinced that it would make infoboxes more consistent considering only TV show episode infoboxes currently have this additional header cell; as for RPG enemy templates, they only seem to be used in [[Beanie#Profiles and statistics|bestiaries]] whereas [[Beanie|the actual article's infobox]] use the standard {{tem|species infobox}} template. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 03:54, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 20:16, April 27, 2025

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Monday, April 28th, 00:16 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. A given user may author/co-author up to five ongoing proposals. Any additional proposals will be immediately canceled.
  3. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  4. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  5. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available. Keep in mind that we use approval voting, so all of your votes count equally regardless of preferred order.
  6. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  7. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  8. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  9. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  10. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  11. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  13. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  14. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  15. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  16. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  17. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  18. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  19. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  20. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  21. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  22. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple subissues that can be resolved independently of each other. In a poll proposal, each option is essentially its own mini-proposal with a deadline and suboption headings. The rules above apply to each option as if it were its own proposal: users may vote on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then the status quo wins for that option by default. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

For the purposes of the ongoing proposals list, a poll proposal's deadline is the latest deadline of any ongoing option(s). A poll proposal is archived after all of its options have settled, and it is listed as one single proposal in the archive. It is considered to have "passed" if one or more options were approved by voters (resulting in a change from the status quo), and it is considered to have "failed" if all options were rejected by voters and no change in the status quo was made.

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)
Merge intro/outro sections, rename Gameplay section to "Overview" for Mario Party minigame articles, ToxBoxity64 (ended March 1, 2025)
Allow English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia names to be mentioned on articles where they are not the title, Hewer (ended March 27, 2025)
Create pages for the Captain N episodes where Donkey Kong is a central character, Glowsquid (ended April 1, 2025)
Make a page for the Nintendo Switch 2 Welcome Tour, Koopa con Carne (ended April 11, 2025)
Split Mario & Sonic game categories by version, Technetium (ended April 16, 2025)
Change previous and next entries cell in infoboxes to include actual entry names and change directory link, Bro Hammer (ended April 18, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy, Waluigi Time (ended February 8, 2025)
Split Animal Crossing (game), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)
Split the modes in the Battles page, Mario (ended February 15, 2025)
Count ongoing serialized comics for latest appearances, Rykitu (ended March 2, 2025)
Split Super Mario Maker helmets from Buzzy Shell and Spiny Shell (red), PopitTart (ended March 12, 2025)
Merge Mario Party 4 hosts with their species, Kirby the Formling (ended March 23, 2025)
Split Super Luigi subjects into a dedicated list article, EvieMaybe (ended April 3, 2025)
Refocus Papa Mario as "Mario's dad", Superstarxalien169 (ended April 4, 2025)
Merge the list of references to Super Mario Bros. with Super Mario Bros., Waluigi Time (ended April 6, 2025)
Split Hammer (move) from Hammer, Blinker (ended April 10, 2025)
Give Nathaniel's Fun Factory full coverage, Nelsonic (ended April 12, 2025)
Split Kongo Bongo Island and Jungle Kingdom from Donkey Kong Island, Kaptain Skurvy (ended April 20, 2025)
Clean up the Pipe Cannon article, PrincessPeachFan (ended April 21, 2025)
Rename Koopa (species) to "Koopa clan", Nintendo101 (ended April 23, 2025)
Split History of the Yoshi species from Yoshi (species), Rykitu (ended April 25, 2025)
Split History of the Toad species from Toad (species), Rykitu (ended April 25, 2025)
Split Dancing Ghost Guy from Ghost Guy, Sorbetti (ended April 26, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Split the list of ongoing talk page proposals into sections

Isn't it weird how the main page proposals are split between "New features", "Removals", "Changes", and "Miscellaneous", yet the talk page proposals are all in one big list? Even though there's way more talk page than main page proposals? I think that's pretty weird.

The benefits of sorting talk page proposals
  • Makes individual proposals easier to spot and parse by breaking up the list into easier to read chunks
  • Groups similar proposals together
  • Parity with main page proposals
The downsides of sorting talk page proposals
  • The list stops being fully chronological
  • I can't think of another downside

As per PopitTart on the Discord server, the categories should be "Splits", "Merges", "Moves", and "Miscellaneous", since they're by far the most common reason folks make a talk page proposal.

Proposer: EvieMaybe (talk)
Deadline: May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Split the talk page proposals

  1. EvieMaybe (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Thank you. This is well overdue, as the TPP list has been kind of a rat's nest as of late; literally any organization is well worth it, in our opinion. Per proposal.
  3. OmegaRuby (talk) Per proposal.
  4. Pseudo (talk) This kind of feature parity is quite useful, especially when the list has a lot of proposals on it!
  5. Yoshi18 (talk) Per EvieMaybe.

Do not split the talk page proposals

"Talk the proposal split" page (Comments)

What if a proposal falls into multiple categories? For instance, this was both a merge and move proposal, this was both a move and split proposal, this is both a merge and split proposal... Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:08, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

either "Miscellaneous" or whatever the most relevant category is, same way as if a main page proposal fell into multiple categories. up to the proposer's discretion. — Super Leaf stamp from Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury.eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 13:20, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Split lists of changes from remakes' articles

(OK, it has been like ten years since I last made a Proposal, so forgive me if something is wrong.)

It has come to my attention, from trying to browse the TTYD Switch remake article, not as an editor, but as a player looking for specific information, just how awfully nightmarish it is to navigate it when 80%+ of the content is a massive list of changes that, while interesting, should definitely not be the focus of four fifths of the article (nor the first proper section in it, but that's not the focus of this Proposal), particularly when many people searching for the article have possibly only played the remake and as such this information would be mostly irrelevant at best. We already split glitches, staff, beta elements, etc... Why not this?

Proposer: Henry Tucayo Clay (talk)
Deadline: May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Henry Tucayo Clay (talk) - Per proposal

Oppose

  1. YoYo (talk) If you're going on the page for the remake specifically, chances are you are looking for what changes there are. Splitting all that information off would reduce the page for the remake into almost nothing comparatively, defeating the purpose of the page to begin with.
  2. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) What's the point of having reissues split from the original game if the article doesn't cover the changes that are present? Isn't that, like, the main reason they're split in the first place? The Virtual Console version of Super Mario Bros. isn't split because...it's just Super Mario Bros., but the Game Boy Color version of Donkey Kong Country is split from the SNES version of Donkey Kong Country because it introduces changes such as Candy's Challenge, Funky Fishing, a new level, etc., and most people are gonna want to read about these changes on the reissue's article! Just makes something so simple so confusing.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  4. Nelsonic (talk) Per all. Some releases (specifically enhanced ports) have minimal changes (such as Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Donkey Kong Country Returns HD, and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe), so this would strip most of the content from those pages. And in the cases of full remakes, like Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Mario Bros. Returns, Super Mario Advance, and Super Mario 64 DS, the page would just end up becoming a paragraphs long. For example, if the changes between Super Mario Bros. and VS. Super Mario Bros. were split off into a separate article, the VS. Super Mario Bros. article would simply discuss the production of the game, how it was never released in Japan, and its Arcade Archives port. This would also result in drastically shortening the pages for Super Mario All-Stars, Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World, Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition, and Super Mario 3D All-Stars, since the main selling point of those games is their changes from the original version.
  5. Arend (talk) Splitting the changes off would result in the remaining page being really barren in order to avoid repeated content. At that point, what would be the point of keeping the remake split, then?
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) Now, admittedly; we can see the merit of listing the content of a game outside of the context of "what's different in this port?". We killed "Once And Only Once" for a reason; sometimes, it's nice to just. Have a table of what exactly is in that specific incarnation of the game. The issue is, that's not currently the state the majority of remake articles are in, and these lists are either most, or all, you have. The TTYD remake page, and our personal bugbear, the Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions page in particular, would become about as short as a page like Super Mario Bros. Special, and those are multi-hour long RPGs versus a 2-or-so hour long platformer game. In a world where these pages are more direct about the contents of their remakes beyond a bullet-pointed list, this would be fine, but we are not there yet. Therefore, the lists stay on the same page.
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) per Camwoodstock. a decision like this should come from changing how we cover reissues entirely. with our current reissue coverage policy, splitting the differences is basically splitting the main meat of the article.
  8. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all.

Comments

@YoYo: If you are specifically looking for changes from the original to the remake, wouldn't a dedicated article make more sense, then? --TucayoSig.png™ The 'Shroom 13:33, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

What else would you look for in a remake's page other than the changes? If you're looking for original info, you go to the original game's page. If you're looking for what the remake added/changed/removed, you go to the remake's page. — Lady Sophie Wiggler Sophie.png (T|C) 18:34, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

Rename "List of (game) staff" articles to "(game) credits" and include what happens in credits sequences

"Credits" is generally the proper term when listing staff in media. As for the latter part, while we do have an article about ending Parades, I think it couldn't hurt to mention what happens while the credits roll in the article opener. e.g for Super Paper Mario's article: "During the credits, images of scenes throughout the game are shown". Listing the staff itself will remain unchanged.

Proposer: Nightwicked Bowser (talk)
Deadline: May 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Both

  1. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per proposal
  2. Rykitu credits (talk) Per proposal

Only rename articles

Only include credits sequence information

Neither

Comments

Would this also apply to games that don't have a credits roll, like Super Mario Bros.? I think it would be misleading to refer to the list of staff as "credits" if so. I need more wrenches... Dive Rocket Launcher 08:06, April 24, 2025 (EDT)

Make a guideline for covering generic subjects that have a recurring and recognizable design in the Mario series

Know the difference!
Penguin Eudyptula mariosixtyfourus:
stubby, "chibi" build; generally blue-feathered; capable of speech; can man a vehicle 		A penguin as seen in PinballPenguin sprite in Mario is Missing! CD-ROM Deluxe Who?
Model of a Snowman from Mario Kart 8 Wears a scarf and a blue, tilted bucket for a hat. Number one cause of car accidents during snowfall. Might be sentient. Snow Man Sprite of a Snowman in Super Princess Peach Little Timmy's first snowpeople.

A discussion at Talk:Penguin began over the structure and scope of the wiki's Penguin article. The article focuses almost exclusively on the blue-feathered, friendly race of creatures found throughout Mario games, while relegating information about other instances of non-specific penguins that do not fit this description to a brief Notes section. Some users believe that the article should be a catch-all for critters in the series that are called simply "penguins", resemble real penguins, and fill some role related to gameplay or plot. Others think that the current article is best reserved for the design unique to Mario and have suggested creating a different, dedicated space on the wiki for the penguins that do not use this design.

A similar issue arises with the page Snowman. Like penguins, snowmen appear in various shapes and sizes, some having features uncharacteristic of their real life counterparts (such as bananas for a mouth and arms). However, the ones in the Mario Kart series stand out as the most consistently designed--having a two-segmented body, a bucket for a hat (always tilted to the side), two oval beady eyes, a stumpy nose, a scarf, and, in latter appearances, a tiny smile. One such Mario Kart snowman is even a playable character in Mario Kart World, cementing its kind as the Mario brand's de facto snowman look.

Insofar as English-language material is concerned, this situation is unique to Penguins and Snowmen in the Mario franchise. However, the franchise is no stranger to featuring generically identified things based on some kind of real life counterpart, such as crab, frog, and cheese, as well as featuring creatures that are also based on a real world thing, but were given a distinctive Mario twist, such as Dolphin and Moo Moo (which I assume will soon be moved to Cow as per Mario Kart World). The more these two categories grow, the more overlap there's bound to be, so I figured it's best we hashed out a guideline on how to manage their coverage. If no further instances of such an overlap is to emerge, then I suppose this proposal is ultimately still useful in sorting out the current Penguin/Snowman sitch.

The proposal centers on the two courses of action suggested in the Penguin discussion I linked above.

Option 1

Separate a given generic subject between articles based on whether it follows a recurring, recognizable design in the Mario series.

  • In this case, Penguin continues to focus on the race of blue penguins introduced in Super Mario 64, while a different article is created to elaborate on all the other nondescript penguins in the series that may play some kind of role. Such an article would cover, for instance, the penguins in Pinball, which were removed from the parent article a while ago despite having a gameplay role, however minor. The penguins featured in "7 Continents for 7 Koopas" would also be mentioned here because they play a role in the episode's climax.
  • Similarly, the Snowman page becomes exclusively focused on the ones that follow the Mario Kart design, while a separate page is made for all the other snowmen in the series, such as the Jungle Beat, Galaxy, Super Princess Peach, and possibly the Mario Kart: Super Circuit ones.

As for the manner of disambiguating these articles, because I don't wish this proposal to become overly restrictive, I'll suggest something in the comments.

If two or more designs exist in the series for a real world thing and each is established and recurring in their own right (like the Super Mario 64 Penguins), they are each given an article. This hasn't happened yet to my knowledge.

Option 2

Cover all instances of a generic subject with a direct real world counterpart in one article and in due detail. In this scenario, the current Penguin article contains detailed information on all the penguins I've described above, sectioned accordingly. The same applies to the Snowman article, which would keep its current structure.

Option 3

Only dedicate an article to the distinctive Mario subject and use a "Notes" section in that article to quickly go over instances of that subject that do not follow the same distinctive look. The Penguin article would remain the same as currently, and the Snowman article would be modified to reflect the former's structure.

The winning option is turned into a guideline at MarioWiki:Generic subjects.

Note

Whichever course of action is chosen to become a guideline, it will only apply to subjects that can clearly be construed as "generic" and non-derivative, and which have a long history of being referred to after their real life counterparts in multiple languages. This guideline is not to be enforced on subjects whose identity is contentious, or whose nature is significantly more based in fiction than real life.

  • If there is divergence on whether a subject is meant to be generic, e.g. Sidestepper (simply named "crab" in other languages) or Preying Mantas (mostly ever called "jellyfish"), a separate discussion is required.
  • The beer-throwing penguins in Wario Land II are out of the proposal's scope, because their appearance and behavior are too derivative of real life penguins, and they have not appeared often enough to make a compelling case either way.
  • Though there are many things named "Ghost" in the Mario franchise, their relevant articles on the wiki most often discuss particular characters that happen to have a generic name (like the boss in Wario Land 1 and the one in Wario Land 2), distinctive creatures with a tenuous connection to ghosts (the wispy, worm-like things in Yoshi's Story, the costumed Kremlings in Donkey Kong 64), technical terms unrelated to supernatural apparitions, and a select enemy "species" encountered in the Luigi's Mansion series. The only two true instances of generic ghosts in the extended Mario franchise are Ghost (Wario Land II enemy) and Ghost (DK series), but because I foresee contention on whether these need to be covered on the same page, this proposal excludes them altogether.

Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk)
Deadline: May 11, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Cover generic subjects based on how established their design is, collect information on non-recurrent, non-established designs in a separate article

  1. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Pseudo (talk) These smaller but still significant appearances of generically named subjects are still important! That said, subjects like the Mario 64 penguins feel strange to even regard as generic given how well-established and uniquely designed they are; it seems to me that these are more like Mario-original subjects that just lack a unique name.
  3. Camwoodstock (talk) Especially given the remark in the comments about giving these more generic appearances the (generic) label in the comments. This helps create a rather clear divide from "Mario-ified version of a real-world thing" and "a generic real-world thing", and the alternative of eventually having to mention Community Service on the "Cow" page once Mario Kart World releases does not appeal to us one bit; better to get ahead of the curve when it comes to preventing weird WikiJank™.
  4. Exiled.Serenity (talk) It does seem to us that things like these penguins are usually presented as 'the Mario character from that game' so it makes sense to give it its own space. Still worth documenting the others, but also important not to imply the Blue Penguin From Mario is just another incidental generic penguin.
  5. Tails777 (talk) Per proposal. Having a more generic article for the generic depictions feels way better than lumping them with the more stylized depictions the Mario series occasionally creates.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. Nintendo101 (talk) tentative support, assuming "design" is not restricted to just visual appearance. Some subjects can have radically different appearances between titles but have the same behaviors, roles, and mechanical tactileness between them, and those can be indicative of continuity and shared, ontological identity as much as a shared visual appearance. Personally, I am not invested in having an article for unrelated subjects that happen to be based on real-world penguins. None of them really appear in any context that would make an article on them particularly robust or earnestly accurate, in my view, because none of them have substantial roles or were conceived by the same people. They just happen to be realistic penguins. However, others express interest in that type of documentation, and I do not want to be the reason why they can't.
  8. Kirby the Formling (talk) both generic and stylised creatures articles have good reasons to exists, so per all.

Option 2: Cover all instances of a generic subject on one article, whether its design is established or not

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - A lot of these are subject to series' legacy-based art direction; ie, snowmen in the Mario Kart games tend to (though not always) have a design based on the MKDS take on the MK64 ones, but they're still just as much snowmen as any of the others. With that said, I think "small bird" can stay separate with the Odyssey section's multiple designs, if only because Odyssey also concurrently features larger birds.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) alternatively, perhaps articles like that for the penguin, cow/moo moo, snowman, etc. can be restructured conceptually where all of the information is housed together under one article, but emphasis is put on the recurring, more ubiquitous Mario designs in how the article is written. Perhaps info on penguins in Mario is Missing and WarioWare can be included in the penguin article if these one-off looks are not treated with the same weight as the more prolific design that debuted in Super Mario 64.

Option 3: Only afford a page to the generic subject with an established design, note other instances succinctly in one section of that page

Do nothing (generic subjects)

Comments (generic subjects)

Regarding option 1, maybe give the page for non-established designs of penguins and snowmen the "(generic)" identifier. Open to better suggestions. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 06:39, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

I feel like there should be a fourth option for whatever Earth is up to. TLDR: There's a section for the Earth of the real world and a section for Earth-y fictional planets. Basically Option 3 without the shortening. It's a bad option, since those should just be separate articles, but it is an answer to this that is currently on the wiki. Salmancer (talk) 06:58, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

Do WarioWare Gold's coins get caught up in this? They don't have a design in the middle like every Mario-ian coin. The WarioWare: Get it Together coins do, and match Mario-ian coins at that. It does suggest a risk of option 1 splitting design histories between multiple pages, which I don't care about but some people do. Salmancer (talk) 06:58, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

Very good observation. I always found the scope of the Coin article to be rather messy, and I'd prefer if it followed a guideline akin to what is proposed here. In other words, should option 1 or 3 garner majority in this proposal, the coins in Wario Land 4 and WarioWare Gold (among other instances) are distinguished accordingly from the established design that appears to be stamped with the Roman numeral "I" (Artwork of a Coin in Mario Kart 8). That said, some coins seen throughout the franchise do not have the same design as the Super Mario Bros. coin, but are clearly derivative of it, namely:
  • The star-minted coins in Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Pinball. (Artwork of a Yellow Coin from Super Mario 64)
  • The Yoshi-themed coins in the Yoshi platformers. (Artwork of a Coin in Yoshi Topsy-Turvy (Reused for Yoshi's Island DS))
Without careful consideration, guideline 1 and 3 would sweep these up as well. How to handle these? My suggestion is to use the parent "Coin" article for instances of yellow/gold coins that pertain to the larger, established Mario "currency" that comprises Red Coins and Blue Coins. There is a clear hierarchical connection between the 64/Pinball/Yoshi coins and these that the Wario Land 4 coins, for instance, do not have (in fact, you can construe those as a different currency altogether Gold Coin, and other coins in Wario Land 4). -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:53, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

I think this proposal would benefit from greater clarification on what constitutes as "generic" and what qualifies as a "recurring design." Because to me, something based on a real-world in appearance but has pretty consistent mechanical utility in-game is a recurring attribute of the subject, like fish or flower. Similarly, I think the T-Rex from Super Mario Odyssey and Mario Kart World make sense in the same article despite one looking more realistic than the other. However, there are subjects with generic names in the language of the people that created them, like Maw-Ray, but I would not support turning that article into one for any and all moray eels in the Super Mario franchise. That seems unhelpful and diluting. The Dolphins, which are not even supposed to be generic dolphin animals in Japanese, also should not be an article for any dolphins in the Super Mario franchise.

To me, I do not think it is accurate to consider penguins to be generic subjects. They are as discrete to me as Toads or Gearmos, and I think it is in-part because they are typically speaking characters with cultures. I think to elevate realistic animal penguins from Pinball, Mario is Missing or Jungle Beat, which appear very infrequently and to which the blue talking birds have no relation to within the context of creative works, would be diluting and inaccurate. I'm not even sure the realistic-looking animal info is helpful/accurate to even have in the penguin article, as opposed to simply covering those subjects on their respective game and level articles where relevant. They are not the same subjects, in my view. - Nintendo101 (talk) 11:14, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

I'm fully aware that the terminology used in the proposal can be confusing depending on how you look at it, but that wasn't by design. I just couldn't find less unwieldy terminology to work with. To be clear, I completely agree with the notion that the Super Mario 64 Penguins, the "Lifton" Dolphins, and the "Moo Moo" Cows are ad hoc Mario species, just like Goombas and Toads. However, "generic" can also describe any of the Goombas you stomp in games, relative to individuals like Goombario and Goombella, and by that definition, your Moo Moos and Liftons are also rather generic, which makes them even more painful to distinguish from a "generic generic" entity like the cow in the Community Service microgame. I could have used the term "non-generic generic" for those Mario species, but that's... obtuse. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 11:39, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
For clarity, I didn't at all think the lack of clarity was intentional or anything like this. I agree this franchise makes this a difficult topic to discuss all on its own. But thank you for the other examples - they are helpful. - Nintendo101 (talk) 11:43, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
The Mario Kart cows were stylized based on what they could make for a simple pre-render on the Nintendo 64. I don't see anything that distinguishes them from standard cartoon cows, while Toads and Goombas are obviously more fantastical as sapient fungus. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:56, April 27, 2025 (EDT)
I'm not sure the underlying reasons why the cows look the way they do makes them more generic than Toads or Goombas, especially since this same design has been exercised for these cows for multiple decades. There are many different ways one can design a cartoon cow - only one way to design the ones from Moo Moo Meadows, or at least since 2005. While organizationally inconvenient for some, or at least on this wiki, I am not sure why this cow is not a discrete Mario subject on par with the likes of Maw-Ray, which is simply referred to as a "moray eel" in Japanese. Perhaps I am missing something. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:06, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

Out of curiosity, with regards to Small birds, what would happen if option 1 won? There's definitely a recurring type of small birds since Super Mario 3D Land that even had gameplay relevance in Mario Sports Superstars and then was put among the many other small bird species introduced in Super Mario Odyssey.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:02, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

Super Mario Odyssey achieves its tactile diversity by have many of the same objects appear in each kingdom with a unique look that matches the regional topography, and I think small birds are part of the same design philosophy. Given this, as well as the fact that The Art of Super Mario Odyssey refers to nearly all of these birds as 小鳥 and this is also the Japanese name for the white birds of the Mushroom Kingdom, I think it would be a better reflection of the same to keep them in the same article together - as stylistic renditions of the same subject. This is in part why I was resistant to the idea that physical appearance was the only criterion to qualify "design." - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:16, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

What is a game?

Per @Camwoodstock's comments on the ongoing electronic water-related proposal on the list of games. The way that a game is considered a game is currently arbitrary, with board games being split to one list, card games being relegated elsewhere, Play Nintendo getting its own list, and Nintendo Today! quizzes all being merged into the app's article. This proposal aims to decide what gets on the list of games article, since there isn't anything on that page that explicitly states that the games listed have to be video games (minus the text "organized by video game system", but this can be changed). To note, this proposal is not suggesting that anything should be removed from the list, the goal of this proposal is to figure out whether or not anything should be added to the list of games.

Proposer: Nelsonic (talk)

Do board games move to the list?

Do not add board games to the list 7-10
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments; this feels like kind of a no-brainer, and we're surprised these have been excluded from the Games list for as long as they have been. Board games are like, a known concept, they've been around for millennia, and heck, games like Mario Party-e exist as a hybrid board game/video game. Excluding board games feels very arbitrary, just because they aren't "video" games, but we've included the Game & Watch titles for forever, with basically no contention whatsoever, despite those not technically meeting the definition of being a "video" game.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) The article is titled the "list of games," not the "list of VIDEO games." It'd be nice if this page just covered every game of every type, especially seeing how I consider board games (or anything of the sort) to be closer to games than merchandise. Besides, they are called board GAMES, so why shouldn't they be included on the "list of GAMES"?
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per all. Board games are pretty unambiguously "games".
  6. Pseudo (talk) Per Camwoodstock. While I understand Nintendo101's point about board games often being promotional tie-in products, they are still Mario franchise media in their own right, and a kind of game at that.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all. As a big Mario Party fan. I feel like board games fit to the category of games
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) This is not to disparage board games or other types of media of this nature, but I think it would be healthier for our site to have distinction between a "video game" and "promotional tie-in media and products." I do not think being interactive is enough for it count as a "game" within the context of a video game-oriented franchise, in the same way I would not include instruction booklets in a list of books because they have readable text. This kind of stuff should be supported on the site, but not here.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) per Nintendo101. There are a lot of different mediums for games in this world, but it's indisputable that the Mario franchise manifests itself most often in video games, and I believe this specific list is better off focusing on those, with an appropriate move to "List of video games". I can see the appeal and use of a page for Mario games that are not video games, though, and I support creating that. The wiki currently considers these games to be "merchandise", which I consider apt for some (like the shampoo bottles) but something of a stretch for others (board games).
  3. Hewer (talk) Per Koopa con Carne. I'm not denying that board games are games, but they're not video games, and I think "List of video games" would be a more useful page for this wiki about a primarily video game franchise than "List of games".
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all. I would rather the wiki not mix the core media of the Mario franchise (video games) with miscellaneous pieces of merchandise such as board games.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per Koopa con Carne
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.
  10. SmokedChili (talk) Per all.

Do card games move to the list?

Do not add card games to the list 6-10
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments, and the same rationale behind board games. Sure, it's not a "video" game, but this is List of Games, not List of Video Games.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock again.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per my board game vote.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Per Camwoodstock and my above vote for board games.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. Hewer (talk) Same as the board game vote.
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.
  10. SmokedChili (talk) Per all.

Do party games (i.e. Jenga) move to the list?

Do not add party games to the list 7-10
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. This is gonna be appearing a few more times...
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock yet again.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Also per my board game vote.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Also a mere semantic distinction between party games like this and board games, in my view.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Things like Jenga are such family games, like Mario Party. I have the feeling they should've already been classified as games long ago.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote. (You also do not italicize Jenga.)
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. Hewer (talk) Same as the card game vote.
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.
  10. SmokedChili (talk) Per all.

Do physical games (i.e. Barrel of Monkeys-style things with physical characters and pieces) move to the list?

Do not add physical games to the list 6-10
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. You get it, right?
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock once more.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Yet again per my board game vote.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Per my other "yes" votes.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. Hewer (talk) Same as the party game vote.
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.
  10. SmokedChili (talk) Per all.

Does Super Mario Ride move to the list?

Do not add Super Mario Ride to the list 2-10
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. It is currently listed under "Other Super Mario-themed games" on the list of merchandise.
  2. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal. I'm a maximal inclusivist when it comes to these things, so I think anything anyone could plausibly conceptualize as "a game" ought to be classified as a game for navigational purposes.
No
  1. Camwoodstock (talk) From the looks of it, those are toy cars; those are toys, not games. Them being listed as "other Super Mario-themed games" feels like a bit of a misnomer.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote above.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Rides are not games.
  4. Pseudo (talk) If it's a toy and not a game, it probably shouldn't count. This is a slightly different category of item.
  5. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all.
  6. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  7. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  8. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  9. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  10. Platform (talk) Per all.

Do Play Nintendo games move to the list?

Add Play Nintendo games to the list 9-0
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. There's a dedicated HTML section now.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) With an HTML section in tow, we feel it's only fair.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Sure.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) We have other browser games on the list, why not these?
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal. Even if the term we were using was "video game" instead of just "game" I would think these should count.
  6. Pseudo (talk) These seems like games as much as a typical Flash game of old, which we already include in the list of games, so this seems more clear cut than any of the others.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per Nelsonic and Camwoodstock.
  8. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  9. Platform (talk) Per all.
No

Does Nintendo Today! move to the list?

Do not add Nintendo Today! to the list 2-11
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. It has many interactive elements, such as quizzes.
  2. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal. I understand everyone else's hesitation, but Nelsonic has a point!
No
  1. 1468z (talk) The only thing that comes the closest to the definition of game and is related to Mario is the silhouette quizzes, which despite their name are actually just articles with a profile of a character without any interactive elements. It's not that different from something you would find on Nintendo's website.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) To be honest, we're a bit on the fence, but we're leaning on this for now. Maybe if there were more active game elements to them, but as it stands, these are just articles at the moment with no real interactive elements aside from. Clicking it and reading it.
  3. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  4. Hewer (talk) Per Shinya Takahashi ("[Nintendo Today] is something a little different that's not a game").
  5. Rykitu (talk) Per all. If you really think about it, if we count Nintendo Today as a game, that would mean the Super Mario Wiki would be considered a game.
  6. Pseudo (talk) This seems like not so much of a game to me as a platform for games (in addition to other media); at most, I'd support adding this app's individual included games to the list.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all. Nintendo Today! is basically just a daily newspaper (similar to The 'Shroom).
  8. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  9. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  10. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  11. Platform (talk) Per all.

Does Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land move to the list?

Add Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land to the list 8-2
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. It was an interactive VHS tape that required the user to press buttons at certain points.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) By our own definition of it being an "interactive game", yes, even if it's just a VHS analogue to those Play Nintendo quizzes, you can get a question wrong and stuff will still happen.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per all.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per all. Somewhat surprised it wasn't already being considered a game.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Eh, more or less? It's sort of an edge case but it's still primarily intended as interactive, just in an unusual format. It is definitely a "game" that relies on "video" for displaying its contents.
  7. Koopa con Carne (talk) Checks both the "video" and the "game" parts of "video game". As long as Dragon's Lair is considered a video game, this should too.
  8. YoYo (talk) Per all.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  2. Yoshi18 (talk) I have mixed feelings about this one, but I'm turning more to the "No" side. I just don't feel like interactive cartoons can be considered games.

Do rides move to the list?

Do not add rides to the list 2-9
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. They were made by Banpresto, usable in arcades, and required money to play.
  2. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal, and per my Super Mario Ride vote.
No
  1. Camwoodstock (talk) You don't really interact with it aside from sitting on it; if there was a more game-ified aspect to it, kinda like Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, maybe? But as it stands, this is a little too non-interactive.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Once again, rides are not games. Except Būbū Mario. That is a game.
  4. Pseudo (talk) Seems like not so much a game as an automated experience; games require interactivity of some kind, I'd think.
  5. Yoshi18 (talk) Once again per Camwoodstock and Rykitu.
  6. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  7. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  8. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  9. Platform (talk) Per all.

Do the remaining water games on the list of merchandise move to the list?

Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT May 3, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original proposal's comments; they are interactive games with a blatant physical, mechanical element to them. The lack of "video" isn't a hurdle so long as the Game & Watch games exist.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock twice more.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per all.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per all.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Yeah, it's pretty much a type of game. Per Camwoodstock's comparison to Game & Watch.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote. This is not comparable to Game & Watch.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  5. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  6. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  7. Platform (talk) Per all.
  8. SmokedChili (talk) Per all.

The Comment Games

@Nintendo101, unless us and everyone we know has been using it very wrong, we don't really see how the board game vote applies to Nintendo Today!... ;P not that it matters, as we agree that Nintendo Today! would be overkill to include either way unless they were more interactive, but y'know, Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock ( talk ☼ contribs ) Camwoodstock-sigicon2.png 20:23, April 5, 2025 (EDT)

Also, Wikipedia does italicise Jenga. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 20:30, April 5, 2025 (EDT)

If we decide to keep the non-video games off the list of games, I feel like a name change to "List of video games" might be a good idea (though the link on the main page can keep it shortened to "Games" for simplicity if need be). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 20:43, April 5, 2025 (EDT)

@Hewer I have an idea. Could we add a new header on the list of games (underneath the iOS stuff and the LEGO Super Mario Roku/Sky Italia games) for "physical games" or "non-electronic games", thus keeping the base list intact up to said section? Nelsonic (talk) 13:21, April 8, 2025 (EDT)
I suppose that'd work too. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:25, April 9, 2025 (EDT)

If Play Nintendo is added to the list, would we include every game in the "Play" category or will we also include the quizzes, polls, puzzles, matching and painting games? If that is the case, I am warning you that there are hundreds of those and would probably take like 75% of the whole page. Sprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.RykituSprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.

@Rykitu I was thinking that for the duplicates, we could link to a handful of the most relevant ones and then stick something along the lines of "For a complete list of Play Nintendo quizzes, see list of Play Nintendo skill quizzes" underneath the segment. Nelsonic (talk) 13:11, April 9, 2025 (EDT)
Ok, that works! Sprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.RykituSprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.

@JanMisali: I think Nelsonic was mistaken about the amount of interactivity in Nintendo Today. The misleadingly named "quizzes" are just pages that describe a character, with no more interactivity than the websites that the descriptions come from. At that point, what piece of software wouldn't you consider a game? Is Nintendo Music a game? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:17, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

I fully sincerely believe anything with any amount of interactivity at all can be considered a game. Websites, apps, web browsers, activity books, DVD menus, and pretty much all software. I think it's better to cast a wide net and include things that 99% of people would say aren't games than it is to be too narrow and exclude things 1% of people would say are games. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 10:27, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
That's how you make a definition so broad that it's useless. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:11, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

At the risk of sounding dumb, what exactly are "(electronic) water games"? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 06:52, April 18, 2025 (EDT)

@Hewer Electronic water games are usually defined as a game with both plastic and electronic components (with the electronic components usually eing more minor, such as the game requiring batteries or including lights, a timer, or sounds) that requires the playing field to be filled with water in order to play. The current "electronic water games" section on the list includes both normal water games and the electronic variety, however, as I do not believe some of them have electronic components (unless they require batteries). Nelsonic (talk) 10:10, April 19, 2025 (EDT)

Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers

For some infoboxes like RPG enemy infoboxes or show episode infoboxes, the work is displayed in a header (like "Paper Mario enemy" or "Super Mario World episode"). Others, like the generic level infobox (which has only "Level" in a header) and the minigame infobox, indicate the game in a regular field.

I propose all subject infoboxes with a "Game" field or similar (exceptions and specific details below) adopt the work-in-header-cell format (like "Super Mario World level"), and the "Game" or "Appears in" field be changed to "Reappearances" (present only in cases where the subject reappears, like retro Mario Kart courses or returning WarioWare microgames).

Why do that? In order to maintain consistency in the presentation of this type of info, and also because it makes more sense than having the work be indicated in a regular field, as the work is not an internal attribute of the subject (like a level's time or code, or an enemy's stats), but part of its context. Also, making work identification more clear is useful when the same infoboxes are widely used for subjects belonging to different games and series.

That would affect every infobox that has a "Game" field currently, the course infobox, and infoboxes for specific games.

In the end, the infoboxes affected by this change would be:

(As for spaces, karts and kart parts, Paper Mario item, which have an "Appears in" field, I suggest we indicate the series in the header instead (Mario Party, Mario Kart and Paper Mario), since they are not really "tied" to the game they debuted in, but are series-wide elements.)

Proposer: Bro Hammer (talk)
Deadline: April 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: replace regular "Game" fields and similar in infoboxes with a header cell

  1. Bro Hammer (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Ahemtoday (talk) I like uniformity.
  3. Salmancer (talk) I see the appeal.

Oppose: do not change any infoboxes

Comments (Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers)

My understanding is that Power Shots are exclusive to exactly two Mario Tennis games, Mario Power Tennis and Mario Tennis: Power Tour. And of them, only twelve appear in both games. At that point, you might as well just have those twelve them say "Mario Power Tennis Power Shot" and say they reappear in Mario Tennis: Power Tour. Salmancer (talk) 13:45, April 11, 2025 (EDT)

I made a mock-up of what the infobox might look like in my sandbox, and I'm not convinced that having an additional header cell is useful or visually appealing. I'm also not convinced that it would make infoboxes more consistent considering only TV show episode infoboxes currently have this additional header cell; as for RPG enemy templates, they only seem to be used in bestiaries whereas the actual article's infobox use the standard {{species infobox}} template. Jdtendo(T|C) 03:54, April 27, 2025 (EDT)

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