MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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{{/Header}}
{{/Header}}
==Writing guidelines==
==Writing guidelines==
===Use the cross-generation data for the video game console generation label===
''None at the moment.''
It's been three months, seven weeks, and three days since the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/71#Remove video game console generations|last proposal]] was vetoed by the staff. Just as [[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] said, the video game console generations are categorized as follows within the scope of Nintendo's video game systems:


;{{wp|First generation of video game consoles|First generation}}: {{iw|nwiki|Color TV-Game}}
==New features==
;{{wp|Second generation of video game consoles|Second generation}}: [[Game & Watch]]
===Split the talk page proposals list into sections===
;{{wp|Third generation of video game consoles|Third generation}}: [[Family Computer]] / [[Nintendo Entertainment System]]
Isn't it weird how the main page proposals are split between "New features", "Removals", "Changes", and "Miscellaneous", yet the talk page proposals are all in one big list? Even though there's way more talk page than main page proposals? I think that's pretty weird.
;{{wp|Fourth generation of video game consoles|Fourth generation}}: [[Super Famicom]] / [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System]]; [[Game Boy]]
;{{wp|Fifth generation of video game consoles|Fifth generation}}: [[Virtual Boy]]; [[Nintendo 64]]; [[Game Boy Color]]
;{{wp|Sixth generation of video game consoles|Sixth generation}}: [[Game Boy Advance]]; [[Nintendo GameCube]]
;{{wp|Seventh generation of video game consoles|Seventh generation}}: [[Nintendo DS]]; [[Wii]]
;{{wp|Eighth generation of video game consoles|Eighth generation}}: [[Nintendo 3DS]]; [[Wii U]]; [[Nintendo Switch]]
;{{wp|Ninth generation of video game consoles|Ninth generation}}: Nintendo Switch; [[Nintendo Switch 2]]


This proposal adds the Nintendo Switch 2 to the scope of the video game consoles by generation.
;The benefits of sorting talk page proposals:
*Makes individual proposals easier to spot and parse by breaking up the list into easier to read chunks
*Groups similar proposals together
*Parity with main page proposals


The real solution is that we will be able to add the <code>generation2</code> parameter to the {{tem|system infobox}} template.
;The downsides of sorting talk page proposals:
*The list stops being fully chronological
*I can't think of another downside


This is what the <code>generation</code> parameter reads as follows:
As per [[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] on the Discord server, the categories should be "Splits", "Merges", "Moves", and "Miscellaneous", since they're by far the most common reason folks make a talk page proposal.


<pre>
'''Proposer''': {{User|EvieMaybe}}<br>
{{#if:{{{generation|}}}|
'''Deadline''': May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT
{{!}} '''Generation'''
{{!}} {{wp|{{{generation}}} generation of video game consoles|{{{generation}}} generation}}
}}
</pre>


Once this proposal passes, then this is what the <code>generation</code> parameter will read as follows:
====Split the talk page proposals====
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} ''Thank'' you. This is well overdue, as the TPP list has been kind of a rat's nest as of late; literally any organization is well worth it, in our opinion. Per proposal.


<pre>
====Do not split the talk page proposals====
{{#if:{{{generation|}}}|
{{!}} '''Generation'''
{{!}} {{#if:{{{generation2}}}|Cross-generation ({{wp|{{{generation}}} generation of video game consoles|{{{generation}}}}} – {{wp|{{{generation2}}} generation of video game consoles|{{{generation2}}}}})|{{wp|{{{generation}}} generation of video game consoles|{{{generation}}} generation}}}}
}}
</pre>


If we use the <code>generation2</code> parameter to the Nintendo Switch page, we'll need to use this:
===="Talk the proposal split" page (Comments)====
What if a proposal falls into multiple categories? For instance, [[Talk:List of Smash Taunt characters#Doing something about this page|this]] was both a merge and move proposal, [[Talk:Cheep Cheep (bird)#Move back to Cheep Cheep (bird) and/or split Puncher|this]] was both a move and split proposal, [[Talk:Bad Luck Space#Remerge with Unlucky Space, take two|this]] is both a merge and split proposal... {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:08, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
:either "Miscellaneous" or whatever the most relevant category is, same way as if a main page proposal fell into multiple categories. up to the proposer's discretion. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 13:20, April 21, 2025 (EDT)


<pre>
==Removals==
|generation=eighth
''None at the moment.''
|generation=ninth
</pre>


This will read as follows:
==Changes==
 
===Split lists of changes from remakes' articles===
<blockquote>
(OK, it has been like ten years since I last made a Proposal, so forgive me if something is wrong.)<br>
Cross-generation ({{wp|eighth generation of video game consoles|eighth}} – {{wp|ninth generation of video game consoles|ninth}})
</blockquote>
 
Now all of that will be the solution if the <code>generation2</code> parameter was added to the <nowiki>{{system infobox}}</nowiki> template. It's so easy to understand which generations a video game system are part of. When it comes to the Switch being a cross-generation video game console, we all know that the work needed will add an extra generation.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 12, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support: We're crossing over!====
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal.
 
====Oppose: We should cross it out...====
 
====Cross-comments====
To clarify, the original proposal was vetoed by staff because the original proposer requested it to be (it was too late for them to cancel it themselves). As such, I'm not sure if Bro3256 still agrees with these arguments. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 12:30, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
:Actually, aside from the subject, Bro3256's proposal is entirely irrelevant to what GuntherBaybee is proposing, if I'm reading this correctly:
:*Bro3256 proposed to ''entirely remove video game console generations'' and redefine it by home console and handheld console (and, for reasons I ''still'' don't understand to this day, ''not count the Virtual Boy at all'').
:*GuntherBayBee instead proposes to add a <code>generation2</code> parameter to {{tem|System infobox}}, to account for the fact that the [[Nintendo Switch]] is a cross-generational system. It's not about removing or redefining the console generations at all: it's just ''about'' the console generations.
:{{User:Arend/sig}} 12:48, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
 
:::So let me get this out of the way first, I did not purposely not count the [[Virtual Boy]], that was an oversight when I made the initial proposal and I do apologize. The main reason I pulled the initial proposal was due to the confusion it left on some users and I feel that partially had to do with how I presented said proposal. I am considering redoing the proposal at another time. In regards to this proposal, I just don't see the point in doing this. I do want to remind users that the current video game console generation system that is used was [https://www.timeextension.com/features/is-wikipedia-really-to-blame-for-video-game-console-generations invented by Wikipedia users in the 2000s]. The concept of video game console generations had been a thing before this but it wasn't until Wikipedia that we see the system that's used to this day. The system is arbitrary even more so now than back when it was created. The [[Nintendo Switch]] for example is categorized on Wikipedia under {{wp|Nintendo Switch|8th and 9th}}
:::*''"The Switch has been compared and considered to compete with consoles of both the eighth and ninth generation by sources."''.
 
:::How can a video game platform be in two different console generations? If the Nintendo Switch can be in two console generations, what about other video game platforms? What the heck is a video game console generation? That last question should be quite simple to answer but frankly there is a good chance you will get a differing answer in both what it's supposed to categorize and how it's categorized. Super Mario Wiki is already an example of such an occurrence only labeling the Nintendo Switch in the 8th. I still stand by the idea about getting rid of the video game console generation system on Super Mario Wiki but I'll leave discussing that for any future proposal made in regards to this specific topic. --[[User:Bro3256|Bro3256]] ([[User talk:Bro3256|talk]]) 08:47, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
 
Are you sure the Switch 2 is a cross-generation system, instead of just a gen 10 console? Remember that the Switch 1 has been on the market for over 8 years now, which is far longer than a regular console has lasted before a successor has been released. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:48, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
:I'm sure that the Switch 2 will be a cross-generation system if Sony and Microsoft officially announce the tenth-generation successors to the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S respectively. {{User:GuntherBayBeee/sig}} 13:45, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
::No, I mean, the Switch 2 probably is ''not'' a gen 9 console. Obviously it will be competing with the successors of the PS5 and Xbox Series X, but I doubt it will compete with the PS5 and Xbox Series X ''themselves''. {{User:Arend/sig}} 13:53, March 29, 2025 (EDT)
 
I recommend your proposals in the future to be much clearer in the problems identified and what the solutions are. Your proposals have been constantly running into the issues where people, getting swamped by verbiage and code block dumps, simply cannot comprehend what's the problem and the solutions to these. {{User:Mario/sig}} 18:51, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
 
==New features==
===Allow pages for the Captain N episodes where Donkey Kong is a central character===
{{Early notice|April 1, 2025}}
''[[Captain N: The Game Master]]'' is an odious travesty of a cartoon that has a page on here because Donkey Kong is a recurring character. It's classified as a "Guest Appearance" by [[Mariowiki:Coverage]] and that's really the best spot for it: Donkey Kong only appears in a few episodes (7 out of 34), is not central to the premise of the show and beside him being there, the cartoon doesn't pull much from Mario or related properties.
 
Most of Donkey's appearance in the show are padding or sight gags, but three episodes stand out for having him be central to their plot:
 
*'''Simon the Ape-Man''': Simon Belmont gets a big bonk on the head, believes himself to be DK Jr, and tries to rejoin his "father" while the other protagonists try to stop him:
*'''Queen of the Apes''': An experiment by Dr. Wily causes Donkey Kong, Mother Brain, and Game Boy to exchange their brains.
*'''The Lost City of Kongoland''': The protagonists explore Donkey Kong's dimension and help him get rid of plant monsters.
 
I believe the wiki would be served by allowing pages for these three episodes for the following episodes:
 
*These are Extremely Important bits of Donkey Kong lore that warrant a complete summary instead of having incomplete fragments spread out over the involved character's pages.
*It will make it easier for other editors to summarize content for the Definitely-About-To-Exist-Any-Days-Nows  pages of [[Crossover with Castlevania]], [[Crossover with Mega Man]], [[Crossover with Metroid]] and [[Crossover with Kid Icarus]] pages without having to suffer the psychic damage of watching Captain N themselves
*The wiki would only find itself blessed and see its quality greatly increases by having more content describing the actions of Captain N Simon Belmont, who is AWESOME.
 
Mariowiki:Coverage notes "Please note that a proposal should be made before a game is classified as a "guest appearance", as this is a somewhat tricky distinction and there could easily be disagreement in the community about the extent to which coverage should be granted to any given non-Super Mario game." so that's what I am doing. Nevertheless I am certain I made a perfect case and everyone will agree with me.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Glowsquid}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support (allow pages for these three Captain N episodes)====
#{{User|Glowsquid}} - I don't know who this "Glowsquid" is but I do wish to subscribe to his newspaper.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Makes sense, and it's roughly equivalent to what exists of our [[Saturday Supercade]] coverage, but for a series that's far more documented. Per proposal.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal. Monkey noises.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} Considering the poor coverage [https://captainn.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_the_Ape-Man of] [https://captainn.fandom.com/wiki/Queen_of_the_Apes these] [https://captainn.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lost_City_of_Kongoland episodes] on Fandom's Captain N Wiki, each only featuring a short summary of the episode, as well as the general lack of maintenance on the site, I strongly support this proposal.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per proposal.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - <s>Honestly I kinda like the Lost City episode. It helps it's the first time DK has a tie and treehouse.</s>
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Insert DK64 clip of Donkey Kong saying "OKAY!" here.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Captain N deserves better coverage on a platform like Mirahaze than on *shudders* Fandom. Even if we aren't giving it full coverage here.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} makes perfect sense. can DK's role in the other four episodes where he's not a main character be summarized in the Captain N article itself, too?
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per proposal. Plus the Captain N Wiki on Fandom is very poorly maintained and lacks information.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.


====Status Quo (no pages)====
It has come to my attention, from '''trying''' to browse the [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|TTYD Switch remake]] article, not as an editor, but as a player looking for specific information, just how awfully nightmarish it is to navigate it when 80%+ of the content is a massive list of changes that, while interesting, should definitely not be the focus of four fifths of the article (nor the first proper section in it, but that's not the focus of this Proposal), particularly when many people searching for the article have possibly only played the remake and as such this information would be mostly irrelevant at best. We already split glitches, staff, beta elements, etc... Why not this?<br>
 
====Comments====
If this proposal passes, will we add an infobox for the ''[[Captain N: The Game Master]]'' episodes? [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 20:45, March 25, 2025 (EDT)
: why wouldn't we. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 22:31, March 25, 2025 (EDT)


===Create an article for Character Icons===
'''Proposer''': {{User|Henry Tucayo Clay}}<br>
Since [[Emblem|emblems]] have an article, I think character icons should have an article too. I was thinking it could be a gallery. There are just so many character icons for just one character (just see how many Mario’s had)! It could anlso have the same structure as [[Gallery:Emblem]]. And it wouldn’t be the first gallery to not have an article talking about the subject. Take “[[Gallery:Orange Yoshi]]” as an example.<br>
'''Deadline''': May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT
EDIT: To answer [[User:EvieMaybe|EvieMaybe]], this is a character icon...
[[File:SM3DWBF Bowser Jr Icon.png]]<br>
...and we would benefit from this article the same way we benefit from the emblems article: organized "images" (I have O.C.D., so that's why I want it organized.)


'''Proposer''': {{User|Weegie baby}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 9, 2025, 23:59 GMT
====Support====
====Support====
#{{user|Henry Tucayo Clay}} - Per proposal


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Shadow2}} I don't even think we need the [[Emblem]] page, to be honest. That page already has very vague interpretations about what is and is not an emblem, and I think that vagueness would get even worse with a Character Icons page.
#{{User|YoYo}} If you're going on the page for the remake specifically, chances are you are looking for what changes there are. Splitting all that information off would reduce the page for the remake into almost nothing comparatively, defeating the purpose of the page to begin with. {{User:RealStuffMister/sig}} 12:55, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Mario}} I understand that some users want a place to have all particular style of UI elements in a page, but "emblem" is nebulously defined in this proposal (and the term may be prone to deprecation in the future as Nintendo may adopt another style or alter the style, such as gradients or doing something similar to Super Mario Party Jamboree stickers) and people who want to organize these icons are better off finding the respective game and character galleries and collaging these icons as they please.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} What's the point of having reissues split from the original game if the article doesn't cover the changes that are present? Isn't that, like, the main reason they're split in the first place? The [[Virtual Console]] version of ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' isn't split because...it's just ''Super Mario Bros.'', but the [[Game Boy Color]] version of ''[[Donkey Kong Country (Game Boy Color)|Donkey Kong Country]]'' is split from the [[SNES]] version of ''[[Donkey Kong Country]]'' because it introduces changes such as [[Candy's Challenge]], [[Funky Fishing]], [[Necky Nutmare|a new level]], etc., and most people are gonna want to read about these changes on the reissue's article! Just makes something so simple so confusing.
#{{User|MCD}} I can sort of understand why the emblem page exists (sometimes a bit abstract, often shared between games, can crop up in a number of places during gameplay such as on a kart or a tennis racket, etc) though maybe it does need a bit of a cleanup. On the other hand, character icons are basically self explanatory - I can't think of any games where they're used as flexibly as emblems, so the only real thing a specific page could offer would be a gallery, and that just feels redundant when games and characters already have their own galleries which contain all of their character icons.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all. Some releases (specifically enhanced ports) have minimal changes (such as ''[[Luigi's Mansion 2 HD]]'', ''[[Donkey Kong Country Returns HD]]'', and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe]]''), so this would strip most of the content from those pages. And in the cases of full remakes, like ''[[Super Mario Bros. Deluxe]]'', ''[[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)|Mario vs. Donkey Kong]]'', ''[[Mario Bros. Returns]]'', ''[[Super Mario Advance]]'', and ''[[Super Mario 64 DS]]'', the page would just end up becoming a paragraphs long. For example, if the changes between ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' and ''[[VS. Super Mario Bros.]]'' were split off into a separate article, the ''VS. Super Mario Bros.'' article would simply discuss the production of the game, how it was never released in Japan, and its [[Arcade Archives]] port. This would also result in drastically shortening the pages for ''[[Super Mario All-Stars]]'', ''[[Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World]]'', ''[[Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition]]'', and ''[[Super Mario 3D All-Stars]]'', since the main selling point of those games is their changes from the original version.
#{{User|Arend}} Splitting the changes off would result in the remaining page being ''really'' barren in order to avoid [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#Repeated content|repeated content]]. At that point, what would be the point of keeping the remake split, then?
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Now, admittedly; we can see the merit of listing the content of a game outside of the context of "what's different in this port?". We killed "Once And Only Once" for a reason; sometimes, it's nice to just. Have a table of what exactly is in that specific incarnation of the game. The issue is, that's not currently the state the majority of remake articles are in, and these lists are either most, or ''all'', you have. The ''TTYD'' remake page, and our personal bugbear, the ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions]]'' page in particular, would become about as short as a page like ''[[Super Mario Bros. Special]]'', and those are multi-hour long RPGs versus a 2-or-so hour long platformer game. In a world where these pages are more direct about the contents of their remakes beyond a bullet-pointed list, this would be fine, but we are not there yet. Therefore, the lists stay on the same page.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per Camwoodstock. a decision like this should come from changing how we cover reissues entirely. with our current reissue coverage policy, splitting the differences is basically splitting the main meat of the article.


====Comments====
====Comments====
please elaborate more on your proposal. what exactly do you mean by "character icons"? can you give examples? what benefit would this article have? {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 17:14, March 26, 2025 (EDT)
@YoYo: If you are specifically looking for changes from the original to the remake, wouldn't a dedicated article make more sense, then? --{{User:Henry Tucayo Clay/sig}} 13:33, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
:I'll try to answer that. [[User:Weegie baby|Weegie baby]] ([[User talk:Weegie baby|talk]]) 11:14, March 28, 2025 (EDT)
:What else would you look for in a remake's page other than the changes? If you're looking for original info, you go to the original game's page. If you're looking for what the remake added/changed/removed, you go to the remake's page. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 18:34, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
::i still don't really see the benefit of it. maybe you should draft an article {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 12:12, March 28, 2025 (EDT)
:::By "drafting" you mean make a small article to show what it would be like, right? I've already made it, but I haven't saved it. I'll just leave it in my computer until I have an answer. [[User:Weegie baby|Weegie baby]] ([[User talk:Weegie baby|talk]]) 08:16, March 30, 2025 (EDT)
::::Y'know, I'll just put it here (the "sub-heading 3" parts will be "heading" in the article):


''This is a gallery featuring images of character icons.''
==Miscellaneous==
===What is a game?===
Per {{@|Camwoodstock}}'s comments on the ongoing [[Talk:List of games#A location for the water games, pocket pinball machines, Water Teaser, and other similar items|electronic water-related proposal on the list of games]]. The way that a game is considered a game is currently arbitrary, with board games being split to one list, card games being relegated elsewhere, [[Play Nintendo]] getting its own list, and [[Nintendo Today!]] quizzes all being merged into the app's article. This proposal aims to decide what gets on the [[list of games]] article, since there isn't anything on that page that explicitly states that the games listed have to be video games (minus the text "organized by video game system", but this can be changed). To note, this proposal is not suggesting that anything should be removed from the list, the goal of this proposal is to figure out whether or not anything should be added to the list of games.


=====''Super Mario 3D Wrold''=====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nelsonic}}
<gallery>
Marioicon sm3dw.png|''[[Mario]]'s selected character icon''
Mario icon un.png|''Mario's unselected character icon''
Luigiicon sm3dw.png|''[[Luigi]]'s selected character icon''
Luigi icon un.png|''Luigi's unselected character icon''
Peachicon.png|''[[Princess Peach|Peach]]'s selected character icon''
Peach icon un.png|''Peach's unselected character icon''
Toadicon.png|''[[Toad]]'s selected character icon''
Toad icon un.png|''Toad's unselected character icon''
Rosalina icon.png|''[[Rosalina]]'s selected character icon''
Rosalina icon un.png|''Rosalina's unselected character icon''
</gallery>


=====''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker''=====
====Do board games move to the list?====
<gallery>
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
CaptainToad icon.png|''[[Captain Toad]]'s character icon''
Toadette icon CTTT.png|''[[Toadette]]'s character icon''
CTTT Purple Captain Toad Icon.png|''[[Captain Toad#Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker|Purple Captain Toad]]'s character icon''
</gallery>


::::So, yeah. [[User:Weegie baby|Weegie baby]] ([[User talk:Weegie baby|talk]]) 11:52, March 30, 2025 (EDT)
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments; this feels like kind of a no-brainer, and we're surprised these have been excluded from the Games list for as long as they have been. Board games are like, a known concept, they've been around for millennia, and heck, games like [[Mario Party-e]] exist as a hybrid board game/video game. Excluding board games feels very arbitrary, just because they aren't "video" games, but we've included the ''Game & Watch'' titles for forever, with basically no contention whatsoever, despite those not technically meeting the definition of being a "video" game.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} The article is titled the "list of games," not the "list of ''VIDEO'' games." It'd be nice if this page just covered every game of every type, especially seeing how I consider board games (or anything of the sort) to be closer to games than merchandise. Besides, they are called board ''GAMES'', so why shouldn't they be included on the "list of ''GAMES''"?
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all. Board games are pretty unambiguously "games".
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Camwoodstock. While I understand Nintendo101's point about board games often being promotional tie-in products, they are still Mario franchise media in their own right, and a kind of game at that.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all. As a big Mario Party fan. I feel like board games fit to the category of games


I could see utility in a gallery for them (I've uploaded a lot myself, after all), but I'm not so sure about an actual article page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:39, March 28, 2025 (EDT)
;No
#{{User|Nintendo101}} This is not to disparage board games or other types of media of this nature, but I think it would be healthier for our site to have distinction between a "video game" and "promotional tie-in media and products." I do not think being interactive is enough for it count as a "game" within the context of a video game-oriented franchise, in the same way I would not include instruction booklets in a list of books because they have readable text. This kind of stuff should be supported on the site, but not here.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} per Nintendo101. There are a lot of different mediums for games in this world, but it's indisputable that the Mario franchise manifests itself most often in video games, and I believe this specific list is better off focusing on those, with an appropriate move to "List of ''video'' games". I can see the appeal and use of a page for Mario games that are not video games, though, and I support creating that. The wiki currently considers these games to be "merchandise", which I consider apt for some (like the shampoo bottles) but something of a stretch for others (board games).
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Koopa con Carne. I'm not denying that board games are games, but they're not ''video'' games, and I think "List of video games" would be a more useful page for this wiki about a primarily video game franchise than "List of games".
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all. I would rather the wiki not mix the core media of the Mario franchise (video games) with miscellaneous pieces of merchandise such as board games.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per Koopa con Carne
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.
====Do card games move to the list?====
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT


So will the criteria be a cropped and framed iteration of 2D vector images? I'm wondering why these qualify and not [[:File:Mpsrart18.png]], apparently. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:09, March 30, 2025 (EDT)
;Yes
:And what about [[List of Super Nintendo World stamps|Super Nintendo World stamps]] that are in the same style? {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 08:58, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
<gallery>
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments, and the same rationale behind board games. Sure, it's not a "video" game, but this is List of Games, not List of Video Games.
SNWGCC.png|Goomba Crazy Crank
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock again.
SNWKTPP.png|Koopa Troopa POWer Punch
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per my board game vote.
SNWPPNM.png|Piranha Plant Nap Mishap
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal.
SNWTPPIcon.png|Thwomp Panel Panic
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Camwoodstock and my above vote for board games.
SNWBKR.png|Bob-omb Kaboom Room
</gallery>
::Answering Mario: they qualify because they’re 2D (I think) and, honestly, I would never see the 3D “icons” as character icons. Answering Lady Sophie: yes, they count as character icons (even though they’re species’.) [[User:Weegie baby|Weegie baby]] ([[User talk:Weegie baby|talk]]) 14:20, March 31, 2025 (EDT)


===Give 7-Eleven an article===
;No
In light of [[A sneak peek of Mario Kart for the Nintendo Switch 2|our recent collaboration with Nintendo]], it's time that we give {{wp|7-Eleven}} an article. ''Mario Kart 11''{{'}}s logo is clearly designed after 7-Eleven's, and it would be wrong not to give it an article. Besides, it has already made an appearance in [[Super Mario no Kōtsū Anzen|a PSA about traffic safety]].
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Same as the board game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Maw-Ray Master}}<br>
====Do party games (i.e. Jenga) move to the list?====
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====7-Eleven Support====
;Yes
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Rykitu|utikyR}} It's about time.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. This is gonna be appearing a few more times...
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock yet again.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Also per my board game vote.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Also a mere semantic distinction between party games like this and board games, in my view.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Things like Jenga are such family games, like ''Mario Party''. I have the feeling they should've already been classified as games long ago.


====Stalled Oppose====
;No
#{{User|Hewer}} What on earth do you mean the logo is "clearly designed after 7-Eleven's"? What's clear is that it's an entirely original logo unlike any other logos that anyone has seen before.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote. (You also do not italicize Jenga.)
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Hewer.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Same as the card game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.


====Pit Stop====
====Do physical games (i.e. ''Barrel of Monkeys''-style things with physical characters and pieces) move to the list?====
''Mario Kart 11''{{'}}s logo is clearly based off of that of 7-Eleven's. Let me show them side-by-side for comparison:
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|image1=7-Eleven logo.png
|width1=150
|image2=Mario Kart 11 logo.png
|width2=400
}}
To the left is 7-Eleven's logo, and to the right is ''Mario Kart 11''{{'}}s. Side-by-side, the resemblance is uncanny; why would the latter not be based on the former? [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 08:47, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:Yeah, right. Next you'll say the Super Mario franchise logo is based on the Super Mario Wiki logo. [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|35px|link=User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=User talk:Hewer|talk]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:EditCount/Hewer|edit count]]) 10:06, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
::If an article is not made for 7-Eleven, it should at least be mentioned in a section for ''Mario Kart 11'' on the [[List of references in the Super Mario franchise]] page; though we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by not giving an article as it has already made a prior appearance in the franchise and serves as the basis for ''Mario Kart 11''{{'}}s logo. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
{{br}}


===Invent time travel to the future===
;Yes
Despite having already waited two months and sixteen days since the reveal of the [[Nintendo Switch 2]], I find myself utterly incapable of waiting one more day to tune in to the long-anticipated Nintendo Direct: [[Nintendo Switch 2]] presentation that will be held tomorrow. Don't you also hate it when you have to wait for time to pass before things can happen?
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. You get it, right?
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock once more.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Yet again per my board game vote.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per my other "yes" votes.


Well, no longer! I come to the proposals page today with a revolutionary idea that would allow our great wiki to finally solve this age-old problem: time travel! I believe this will serve as an adequate solution to our troubles in the present. By travelling to the future, we could document things on our wiki before they even happen! We could overcome the limitations of time to finally become the most complete and comprehensive Super Mario encyclopedia possible! If a better idea has ever been put forward on this page before, I'm not aware of it.
;No
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|Hewer}} Same as the party game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101.


Now, my original idea for this proposal was to introduce a "Time Button" to the header bar, which a user could simply click when they want to head to the future. Unfortunately, I believe this would put too much strain on the technology to be feasibly implemented at this time, so I'll just have to trust the users of the wiki to limit their usage of it. Maybe if I went to the future first to test the technology out, I could return with the more advanced technology that would allow a true Time Button to be implemented in accordance with my vision. But you've got to support the proposal before that can happen.
====Does ''Super Mario Ride'' move to the list?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-10|Do not add ''Super Mario Ride'' to the list}}
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT


It is my sincere belief that this is the best course of action the site could take, and I only hope I have convinced all of you as well. After this inevitably passes, the wiki will certainly have a bright future ahead of it. If you doubt that, well, support the proposal anyway so I can find out myself.
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. It is currently listed under "Other Super Mario-themed games" on the [[list of merchandise]].
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. I'm a maximal inclusivist when it comes to these things, so I think anything anyone could plausibly conceptualize as "a game" ought to be classified as a game for navigational purposes.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Hewer}}<br>
;No
'''Deadline''': April 2, 2025, 13:00 GMT
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} From the looks of it, those are toy cars; those are toys, not games. Them being listed as "other Super Mario-themed games" feels like a bit of a misnomer.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote above.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Rides are not games.
#{{User|Pseudo}} If it's a toy and not a game, it probably shouldn't count. This is a slightly different category of item.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


====Support (turn the clocks forward)====
====Do ''Play Nintendo'' games move to the list?====
#{{User|Hewer}} [[Nintendo Today!|Nintendo Today?]] More like Nintendo Tomorrow
{{Proposal outcome|passed|9-0|Add ''Play Nintendo'' games to the list}}
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Make it time travel to ANY POINT IN TIME, and yes.
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)| Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} I'm fine with it, just like how my past self is fine with it, but don't get TOO carried away with it. I did, and that caused a multiversal collapse, which is why I went back in time to now.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} [[Nintendo Today!|Nintendo Today?]] More like Nintendo NOW!
#{{User|Rykitu|utikyR}} Per SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)


====Oppose (too dangerous/risky/fun)====
;Yes
#{{User|Technetium}} I hate Daylight Savings!
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. There's a dedicated HTML section now.
#{{User|OmegaRuby|Future OmegaRuby}} Wait! Don't do it! I come from the future and the Nintendo Direct gets delayed indefinitely! IT'S NOT WORTH IT!
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} With an HTML section in tow, we feel it's only fair.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} If one were to travel into the future and then travel back into my current time, once the present becomes the future, one runs the risk of running into their other selves. This interaction could possibly cause a chain reaction that could unravel the fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Sure.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Help
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} We have other browser games on the list, why not these?
#{{User|Nelsonic}} [http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Back%20to%20the%20Future Per OmegaRuby. The consequences could be catastrophic.]
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. Even if the term we were using was "video game" instead of just "game" I would think these should count.
#{{User|Pseudo}} These seems like games as much as a typical Flash game of old, [[List of games#Adobe Flash|which we already include in the list of games]], so this seems more clear cut than any of the others.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per Nelsonic and Camwoodstock.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


====Comments in Time====
;No
Wait, Omegaruby!? How did you get from our time to here!? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
:Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing...and how come both OmegaRubys have different opinions on this? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}


@Maw-Ray Master: Huh, my thorough research suggested that meeting one's past/future self was totally fine with absolutely probably no risks involved. Well, as with any untested theory, the only solution is to find out first-hand! [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|35px|link=User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=User talk:Hewer|talk]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:EditCount/Hewer|edit count]]) 10:11, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
====Does ''Nintendo Today!'' move to the list?====
:Mr. Hamburger, uh...technically it's already been tested...{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-11|Do not add ''Nintendo Today!'' to the list}}
:Yeah, you silly, what past me said. I guess things for you never changed between now and my time...{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT
::Well, we've got to start somewhen. [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|35px|link=User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=User talk:Hewer|talk]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:EditCount/Hewer|edit count]]) 11:05, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:::Well, so far time's not being a big womp with collapsing...so it seems like things are fine. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
:::Yeah, what future me said. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
::::That's great to hear. So, everyone: support the proposal, and clearly nothing will go wrong! [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|35px|link=User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=User talk:Hewer|talk]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:EditCount/Hewer|edit count]]) 11:28, April 1, 2025 (EDT)


@Camwoodstock: Welp, since I'm helping with one thing, I guess I'll try to help you. I mean, by my time the whole "time loop" thing's been fixed, so I'll help. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
;Yes
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. It has many interactive elements, such as quizzes.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. I understand everyone else's hesitation, but Nelsonic has a point!


===Introduce one-option proposals===
;No
Lately, I've noticed a problem with proposals. Sometimes I have a great idea but there's too many choices and everyone else doesn't want to vote for the option I support. To solve this problem, we should introduce one-option proposals to make sure that everyone can only vote for the option the proposer wants. If this proposal passes, it will retroactively be considered the first one.
#{{User|1468z}} The only thing that comes the closest to the definition of game and is related to ''Mario'' is the silhouette quizzes, which despite their name are actually just articles with a profile of a character without any interactive elements. It's not that different from something you would find on Nintendo's website.
 
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} To be honest, we're a bit on the fence, but we're leaning on this for now. Maybe if there were more active game elements to them, but as it stands, these are ''just'' articles at the moment with no real interactive elements aside from. Clicking it and reading it.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Shinya Takahashi ("[https://www.youtube.com/live/9OqoRxXUjGA?t=34m58s <nowiki>[Nintendo Today]</nowiki> is something a little different that's not a game]").
 
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all. If you really think about it, if we count Nintendo Today as a game, that would mean the Super Mario Wiki would be considered a game.
====Yes====
#{{User|Pseudo}} This seems like not so much of a game to me as a platform for games (in addition to other media); at most, I'd support adding this app's individual included games to the list.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} What a great idea!
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all. ''Nintendo Today!'' is basically just a daily newspaper (similar to ''[[The 'Shroom:Main Page|The 'Shroom]]'').
#{{User|BMfan08}} I ate the No option... sorry
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} The best thing next to the zero-option proposal.
 
====One comment====
I think we should implement zero-option proposals; these proposals immediately pass upon being written, as there is nothing to vote for. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
=== The newest feature of all: New Features 2 ===
Now now, let me explain...
We, in the history of Super Mario Wiki, have had many pioneers of our time. Some have made great contributions. Some have built a legacy. And some have become an influence to us all. A long time ago, a proposal to [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Proposals/April Fool%27s 2021#Remove removals|remove all removals]] stalled in discussion. And that got me thinking. What if we added a second new features category? Think of it! This category as it is is already filled to the depths. It is flawed. A second new features category would allow for more proposals, more creativity, and overall more ingenuity. We have come to a new era in the Super Mario Wiki. Join me, will you?
'''Proposer''': {{User|BMfan08}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{wp|Heat death of the universe}}
==== I agree, let's do it! ====
#{{User|BMfan08}} Of course I like my own idea, why wouldn't I?
==== Two is two much, let's just do one and a half instead ====
==== I'd rather remove all new features instead ====
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} If the other sections on this page do not get second sections, I can't support this proposal.
 
==== Comments 2 ====
How come only the New Features section gets a second section? A second section needs to be created for every section on this page. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:You're missing the point. If we created a second, say, Removals section, that would undermine creativity and cause mass destruction to this wiki, not to mention undermining my very inspiration. [[User:BMfan08|BMfan08]] ([[User talk:BMfan08|talk]]) 11:56, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
==Removals==
===Remove everything [[Wario]]-related on the Mario Wiki===
[[File:SMP Smash and Crab solo player fail.gif|thumb|Come on! Don't you want just anti-Wario stuff?]]
As a member of the '''Wario Extermination Team''', I propose that we remove everything on this wiki that is related to [[Wario]] in any way, shape or form. It's called the '''Mario''' Wiki, not the Wario Wiki after all! That greedy fool had his fun... and now it's time to end it!
 
If this proposal passes, all Wario-related stuff will be erased from the wiki... <big>'''FOREVER!!'''</big> The only files that will stay are the ones that show Wario losing/getting beat up, like the [[Smash and Crab]] GIF up above. You know all those anti-Wario GIFs I've uploaded? I prepared for this!
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Sparks}}<br>
'''Deadline''': Whenever this reaches four support votes
 
====So long, Wario! (support)====
#{{User|Sparks}} You HAVE to choose this!
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} As a fellow member of the Wario Extermination Team, I support.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} {{file link|WarioTrialSNL.png|Wario tricked us.}}
 
====Let him stay! (oppose)====
#{{User|Technetium}} Wario did nothing wrong.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} If this proposal doesn't also remove the anti-Wario content, it is contradictory to its purpose, and, as such, I can't support this proposal.
 
====Wanna say something? Go ahead!====
 
==Changes==
===On the leading "Princess" for Peach/Daisy/Rosalina, and/or lackthereof===
Brace yourselves--this is gonna be a long one.
 
In July of last year, jan Misali created a proposal to [[Talk:Princess Daisy#Move to "Daisy"|remove the leading "Princess" from the article name for "Princess Daisy"]]. This failed 15-18, as people were interested in a proposal to move Peach alongside this. In November of last year, jan Misali created a follow-up proposal [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/71#Move "Princess Peach" and "Princess Daisy" to "Peach" and "Daisy"|do exactly this]], which failed again; among other concerns regarding redirects, most of the support was split between moving both Peach and Daisy to their Princess-less counterparts, and just moving Daisy, leaving the opposition in the lead. Guess third time's the charm.
 
The question is simple; do we remove "Princess" from the names of the [[Princess Peach]] and [[Princess Daisy]] articles? Time and time again, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Remove "Koopa" and other name particles from Koopaling article titles - take 2|we've removed or truncated]] [[Talk:Professor E. Gadd#Rename (proposal edition)|full names or particles]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/63#Rename pages with the full Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars title|to more common names]]. However, for whatever reason, the "Princess" particles for Peach and Daisy stick, despite Nintendo being very hit-or-miss about how required these are, ''especially'' for Daisy, whose "Princess, despite never doing anything royal outside of her debut" status has been acknowledged, officially, multiple times.
 
To recap the cases in favor of these renames for people that didn't read those first two proposals, the case for Daisy in particular is very strong, so we'll start with her. Simply put, Nintendo so rarely calls her by the name of "Princess Daisy" that it's starting to become a surprise when they ''do'' call her that in things like [[:File:Hot Wheels Princess Daisy Character Car Packaging.png|HotWheels character cars]]. To re-iterate a point made in jan Misali's original proposal, the count of times where Daisy is overtly referred to as "Princess Daisy" outside of manuals or other such paratexts can be counted on two hands, and even then, only barely; once in ''[[Super Mario Bros. Print World]]'' (which also erroneously calls Peach "Daisy" at one point), [[Mario Superstar Baseball|the two]] [[Mario Super Sluggers|baseball games]] and ''[[Fortune Street]]'' interchange "Daisy" and "Princess Daisy" in dialogue but all UI uses just "Daisy", ''[[Super Mario Run]]'' being in a similar boat but with in-game descriptions for [[Super Mario Run#Remix 10|Remix 10]] instead of dialogue, and ''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]'', where Palutena calls her that. In every other case, including her own debut game, she is generally called "Daisy".
 
For Daisy, there is also the strange asterisk that is her [[Princess Daisy (film character)|film equivalent]], but given the context of the plot of the film itself--that Daisy is unaware of her own royal status for the bulk of the film, and is simply referred to as just "Daisy" for most of it, we personally think it's fair to move her to "Daisy (film character) and add a Full Name parameter to clarify her "Princess Daisy" title she has towards the end. That being said, [[:File:SMBFilmCard11.jpg|even her own official trading card just calls her Daisy]], and apparently the "Princess Daisy" title only gets dropped on the back of "Sad Goodbyes", which we lack an image for.
 
The case for Princess Peach is less strong, partially thanks to the release of ''[[Princess Peach: Showtime!]]'', a game in 2024 that makes rather overt use of "Princess Peach"; however, it is worth noting that Nintendo still does play rather fast-and-loose with the "Princess" particle for her as well. Most spinoffs will truncate the "Princess" off of her name, as far back as ''[[Mario Kart 64]]'' and even after the release of ''Showtime'', later that same year, ''[[Super Mario Party Jamboree]]'' also [[:File:SMPJCSSUnlocked.jpg|truncated the "Princess" off of Peach's name]]. While we acknowledge it's odd to laser in on exactly one game, ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' just calls her "Peach", and that is one of the best-selling games in the entire Mario franchise.
 
We've seen various arguments against these, and aside from "personal preference for preferring particles", which we obviously can't argue with (at least, not without looking silly), we can't say we understand the majority of them:
*Concerns were risen about removing royalty particles from other article names, such as [[Princess Shokora]] or [[Princess Shroob]] or [[King Bob-omb]] or [[Prince Mush]] (never mind that in his case, it's a stage name and not royalty). In those cases, the characters have ''never'' been referred to without their particles that we could find unless [[You're the Bob-omb|there was already an older name in the first place]], such as "Big Bob-omb" for "King Bob-omb" (it's possible there's remote dialogue or an obscure Manga appearance we don't have on-record, but we're doubtful). These would retain their particles, as per our [[MarioWiki:Naming|Naming policies]] determining that the most common English name is what is used, and in these cases, the particle is included almost 100% of the time. In contrast, Nintendo has been fairly interchangeable with Peach and Daisy's "princess" particles, and in Daisy's case, her particle has only become increasingly rarer as time goes on. If instances were located where the aforementioned characters lacked their particles short of the Big/King Bob-omb example, that would be something worth acknowledging, but in their cases, the particles being excluded is overwhelmingly the exception, not the norm.
*Concerns have been risen about the [[Peach]] and [[Daisy]] article titles potentially referring to generic subjects; however, as of writing this proposal, both "Peach" and "Daisy" directly lead to their corresponding princesses anyways by means of redirects. Other subjects are instead given a "For <nowiki><x>, see <y></nowiki>" in the Princess' articles introductions. These redirects are already present as-is, and these changes wouldn't change how a search lands.
*For internet traffic, given Peach and Daisy already lead to these articles, we still fail to see how this would impact much, unless we intentionally chose to not leave a redirect after a move; it should go without saying that, if we were to make a move of this magnitude, we would absolutely be leaving a redirect.
*On a meta level, for the "would prefer one, but not the other" angle that was part of the reason the second proposal failed, we have since introduced a poll format to more adequately determine more nuanced situations like this, without risking support being split between two groups and being out-numbered overall.
*While this was not mentioned in the original proposals to our awareness, we do acknowledge that some people may be concerned about the costs of labor of changing a bunch of links; however, not only could this trivially be an automated rename, something our proprietor already does fairly regularly with template names, even if this were somehow unworkable, we already have ample tools to manually perform such a change built into MediaWiki itself. We are well-aware of what this wiki's userbase can do when it comes to making these mass-changes, and we think we have a very capable userbase when it comes to deploying a change like this, either automatically or by hand.
 
There are also two characters we think are worth acknowledging, one brought up by jan Misali when we shared this proposal's draft with them, and one we noticed ourselves. For jan Misali's part, there's [[Bowser]], or rather, King Bowser... Or rather, how in-frequently Bowser is known as "King Bowser". It's to the point where mentions of "King Koopa" as he appears in the ''DiC'' cartoons severely outnumber the amount of times Bowser is actually called "King Bowser" outright. This is exceedingly non-contentious, and while a [[King Bowser]] redirect has existed since 2006, we can't tell when the last time "King Bowser" was overtly used in dialogue. All we can really say is, having played ''[[Minion Quest: The Search for Bowser]]'' recently, it's not in that, with Bowser usually just being referred to as, well, Bowser, with the occasional uses of "Lord" or other offbeat honorifics instead of "King".
 
However, to us, the ''real'' smoking gun for why a move like this would not only make sense, but be perfectly fine for the wiki, has been sitting right underneath our noses the entire time. [[Rosalina]], or should we say Princess Rosalina? Rosalina has been called a Princess from sources dating as far back as 2010 and as recently as 2023. She's commonly colloquially known as a Princess by fans. Heck, [[Princess Rosalina]] is, as of writing this proposal, a valid redirect to her article, and her infobox states her full name is "Princess Rosalina". However, her article has sat at the title of "Rosalina" since its inception back in 2007, with the Princess redirect only being made in 2014. Rosalina is a Featured Article, so her page naturally receives a ''lot'' of traffic and scrutiny, but nobody seems to have questioned if it would be worth moving her article to "Princess Rosalina" to match the other two princesses; and while one could argue that Rosalina is "not much of a princess", that naturally begets the response that neither is Daisy, who keeps the particle anyways. There's not really any reason we can think of why Daisy should keep her particle if Rosalina hasn't ''ever'' held one and it's seemingly never been questioned, and from there, we could understand removing the particle from Peach's name for parity's sake. (Even still, if you really wanted to, we've provided an option to, in addition for what to do to the "Princess" particles in Peach & Daisy's names, if we should add one to Rosalina's name, or keep it absent. We don't really intend to include something like this for "King Bowser" as, while "Princess Rosalina" at least has a plurality number of cases we could find of that name being used, we could literally only find one "King Bowser", in [[Nintendo Comics System]].)
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Camwoodstock}}
 
====Do we have a "Princess" particle for Princess Peach?====
'''Deadline''': April 2, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
;Yes Princess (status quo)
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per past me: "I don't think focusing in so heavily on the exact places or times the full names vs. the shortened names are used is beneficial if those names are still in frequent use. [...] Princess Peach is still very commonly used, the average person knows her by that name, I don't see a need to change it." Considering Nintendo used her full name in a game title last year, this would be a really odd time to do it, and it sheds some light on how awkward it is putting so much focus squabbling over the specifics of character select screens and the like, IMO. I don't see a consistency issue with Daisy regardless of what happens with her, they weren't designed to be perfect analogues to each other and are used in different contexts, which also informs Nintendo's usage of their full titles.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Waluigi Time, past and present.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Much like Daisy, "princess" is scrapped in material where you play as Peach, potentially because they want a more familial sounding moniker for such contexts where you play as her, or they want to be conservative with text on character selection screens. That does not make "Princess Peach" erroneous, archaic, unused, or inappropriate for the title of an article. This is an even stronger case for Peach because she shows up more often in non-playable appearances, where she is typically called "Princess Peach," and they represent the bulk of her history. It is the name used in most instruction booklets, toys, and even in-game. It is not the end of the world for her article to simply go by "Peach," but there is also nothing incorrect or erroneous with maintaining that. "Peach" is more so a shorter derivative of "Princess Peach" than "Bowser" ever was of "King Bowser" or anything like that (and ''certainly'' more so than "Princess Rosalina" is for "Rosalina.") You can probably count the number of sources that prefer using that name for him on one hand, unlike Peach.
#{{User|Rykitu}} [[Princess Toadstool's Castle Run|All]] [[Super Princess Peach|5]] [[Parasol Fall|Princess]] [[Peach's Puzzle|Peach]] [[Princess Peach: Showtime!|games]] have "Princess" before "Peach" (with the exception of Peach's Puzzle and Parasol Fall, unless you count it's full title being Super Princess Peach — Parasol Fall). It is also used way too commonly by Nintendo so I think it should stay the way it is.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Waluigi Time and Nintendo101
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} While I can understand the desire for consistency with the other two princesses, Princess Peach is clearly her <strike>full</strike> ''proper'' name, being used in the titles of games as well as regularly in various bits of dialogue and paratext. It's true that she's usually just Peach in a character select screen, but I don't think this defines how she is overall perceived... in my subjective experience, she would usually be known by the average person aware of Mario as Princess Peach.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all. She is called Princess Peach a lot more than she is called Peach. I asked my sister (who is a very casual fan) who her favorite character is and she specifically said Princess Peach. General audiences and Nintendo still more frequently call her Princess Peach than they do just calling her Peach.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Sdman213}} per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} I still stand by Daisy being referred to as her shortened name, but I feel this can be a case where consistency doesn't really need to be a necessity: Princess Peach is still a very commonly used name for Peach herself and while just referring to her as Peach is as common, the full name is still used much more often when compared to Daisy and especially compared to Rosalina.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all. As I’ve said before, keeping these extended names is fine because they work like identifiers and offer clarification pre-emptively and at the first sight. I’ve also pointed out that the current guidelines don’t say anything about extending names based on official material and suggested making them usable (in limited fashion) and prioritized over wiki-made identifiers. And if people seeking a specific Mario subject over a generic one is such a big deal, then add to the guidelines making use of Display Title extension. Like letting ”Peach” redirect to ”Princess Peach” while ”Peach (fruit)” would have the extension to cut (lol) the page title into ”Peach”.
#{{User|GeneralDonitsky}} Per all.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} welp, y'all won me over
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
#{{User|DesaMatt}} Per all. Keep up the monarchy (the mushroom one at least).
 
;No Princess
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. While we think the arguments for keeping Peach's particle are the strongest, namely since we have an [[Princess Peach: Showtime!|entire game from 2024 with the particle in the name]], we do think if we remove this from Daisy, we should naturally remove this from Peach for the sake of parity.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Abolish the monarchy.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal, and per my previous proposals.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} It's just "Peach" on stuff like character select screens, which I think are the most comparable source for article title formatting.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all. I'm still not a fan of using abridged names—especially for crossover characters like [[Fox]], [[Sonic]], etc.—but if we want to be consistent about it, something's gotta give.
#{{User|Pizza Master}} per all
#{{User|PopitTart}} I was initially hesitant because of the existence of ''Princess Peach Showtime'', but I was quickly swayed by looking at [https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/princess-peach-showtime-switch/ the game's online store page], which displays the simple "Peach" name no less than a dozen times.
#{{User|Arend}} Look, if Daisy doesn't get to be called a princess anymore (even if she's still being referred to as the princess of Sarasaland to this day), neither can Peach. Should be noted that in Dutch, whenever Peach gets called a princess, it's typically spelled "prinses Peach" ''without'' an uppercase P.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} per all
 
<s>{{User|Mushroom Head}} The people who type “Princess Peach” into the search bar are nerds.</s><br>
<s>{{User|Super Mario RPG}} "Princess" is not part of the name, it's just a title and not as integral to Peach's identity as, for example, Dr. Mario.</s><br>
<s>{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all</s><br>
<s>{{User|Blinker}} Per all. And the use of "Peach" in character select screens is an intentional choice, not due to character constraints, as shown by the existance of names like "Light-blue Shy Guy (Explorer)".</s>
 
====Do we have a "Princess" particle for Princess Daisy?====
'''Deadline''': April 2, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
;Yes Princess (status quo)
#{{User|Nintendo101}} In my view, "Princess" is scrapped in material where you play as Daisy, which happen to represent the bulk of her appearances. Perhaps they want a more familial sounding moniker for such contexts, or they want to be conservative with space on character selection screens. That does not make "Princess Daisy" erroneous, archaic, or unused. It is the name used in ''Super Mario Land'', the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'', and licensed promotional toys and products of Daisy, where she is called "Princess Daisy." It is not the end of the world for her name to go by something else, but there is also nothing incorrect or erroneous with maintaining the status quo.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Nintendo101
#{{User|Pseudo}} Even if she is to be referred to as Daisy most of the time, Princess Daisy is still clearly her "proper" name in my view. This falls into a similar category to my views on the Peach situation (or Princess Peach, as the case may be); even though it's less supported by in-game usage and the like, this is still the main name that she is known by.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per all.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all, what I said above about Peach.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per Nintendo101, and also selfishly because the inconsistency would bug me.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.


;No Princess
====Does ''[[Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land]]'' move to the list?====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. To be honest, this has never been a contest for us; as far back as flavor text in ''[[Mario Party 9]]'', Nintendo has acknowledged the weird lack of Damsel-in-distress-ness to Daisy's character, and the usage of "Daisy" in lieu of "Princess Daisy" is as old as ''[[Super Mario Land]]'' itself. That Daisy's royalty is bordering on in-name only post-''Land'' is practically a defining trait of hers.
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-2|Add ''Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land'' to the list}}
#{{User|Hewer}} Per the trilogy of proposals, this is the name that is almost always used for this major character and it is bizarre that we aren't reflecting that. This should've happened long ago, hopefully this new poll format will finally allow it to. I think I'm neutral regarding whether to move Peach, since it's much less immediately obvious which of her two names is most commonly used.
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per last times.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal, and per my previous proposals.
#{{user|Cadrega86}} Per all three past proposals.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Forgive the copy-paste job, but: it's just "Daisy" on stuff like character select screens, which I think are the most comparable source for article title formatting.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all
#{{User|Blinker}} Per all
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all the points made on past proposals. I feel nothing more needs to be added.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per proposal.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|Pizza Master}} per all.
#{{User|PopitTart}} Hi, She's Daisy!
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal. Many of the points made in support of this change have been made and extensively debated, and this proposal does an excellent job outlining them and addressing potential counterarguments.<br>Above all, though, I remain steadfast that the concern about the impact of this shortening of names over search visibility is a complete non-issue. To reiterate what I said in the previous discussion, this site isn't a corporate product; it doesn't need to optimize every single little aspect of itself in the pursuit of visibility. That's not to say that visibility isn't important, but I reckon the wiki already enjoys an ample amount as is, and while only the site's owner ultimately can pull figures and projections, something tells me that calling Daisy, "Daisy" is not going to amount to much. On my machine, looking up "larry mario" or "larry koopa" still pulls up the mariowiki.com article of [[Larry]] as the top result, outranking even Fandom's aggressively promoted children--same holds true for other Koopalings--so I have to ask, if this isn't what motivates the opposing views, what exactly is the problem? Because so far it's only made these subjects easier to look up, less annoying to type out and link to, and ultimately more accurate to the creator's current vision, '''with visibility nigh intact'''. Furthermore, if Mario Wiki's purpose ever was to be perfectly optimized for search hits and clicks, I figure there would be more lucrative directions for the site to take than to be an game encyclopedia for niche things that only 0.1% of Mario fanatics realistically care about. Let unwavering accuracy be the "selling point" that elevates this wiki over all other fan resources for the Mario franchise.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} per all
#{{User|DesaMatt}} Per all.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.


<s>{{User|Mushroom Head}} Per all.</s>
;Yes
 
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. It was an interactive VHS tape that required the user to press buttons at certain points.
<s>{{user|Super Mario RPG}} Since I'm supportive of "Princess" being removed from Peach's article title, the same would apply to Daisy, who has made fewer appearances, including with the "Princess" title.</s>
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} By our own definition of it being an "interactive game", yes, even if it's just a VHS analogue to those Play Nintendo quizzes, you can get a question wrong and stuff will still happen.
 
====Do we have a "Princess" particle for Princess Rosalina?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|0-21|No "Princess" particle for Rosalina}}
'''Deadline''': <s>April 2, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Closed early on March 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
;Yes Princess
 
;No Princess (status quo)
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. We hope we've made it apparent that we think adding the particle to Rosalina's article is very silly indeed, especially decades after the fact, when Rosalina has obtained a featured article without the particle, and when Rosalina is about as much of a princess as Daisy.
#{{User|Hewer}} She's barely ever called that.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Queen it up.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Unlike the other two, there is no substantial media that refers to Rosalina as "Princess Rosalina." It is presented only in larger descriptive material on Rosalina, and even then, only occassionally.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} If anything, cases where Princess Rosalina is used are the clear outlier.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - She's clearly a queen, just sometimes lumped as one of "the princesses" for convenience. <small>(note: the first part of this comment is meant to be taken as a joke)</small>
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. It's unclear if Rosalina is even really a princess in the first place.
#{{user|Cadrega86}} Per all.
#{{user|Ahemtoday}} Princess of ''what'', by the way? Princess of space? Can you ''be'' the princess of space?
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} princess of [[:File:TAoSMO_Rosalina_Concept_Art.jpg|acoustic rock]], obviously.
#{{User|Blinker}} Per all
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per all. Her backstory implies she was one, and she carries the appearance of one, but it is certainly not one of her defining characteristics.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per all.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all. Somewhat surprised it wasn't already being considered a game.
#{{User|Pseudo}} She's straight-up never referred to this way except in supplementary material like websites, not even the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' manual calls her Princess Rosalina. This is pretty clear cut to me.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Eh, more or less? It's sort of an edge case but it's still primarily intended as interactive, just in an unusual format. It is definitely a "game" that relies on "video" for displaying its contents.
#{{User|Pizza Master}} In Chapter 7 of [[Rosalina's Story]], there is a castle in the background that is implied to be Rosalina's house. Quote Rosalina, "I want to go back to my house by the hill!" The only visible "house" by the hill is the castle. So it's likely that she was born to royalty on her home planet. That said, Daisy has no princess particle, so Rosalina shouldn't either just going off precedence.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Checks both the "video" and the "game" parts of "video game". As long as {{wp|Dragon's Lair (1983 video game)|''Dragon's Lair''}} is considered a video game, this should too.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all. Unlike Princess Peach or Princess Daisy, Rosalina is almost never referred to as a Princess.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} per all
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all except the queen headcanon.


<s>{{User|Mushroom Head}} Per all.</s>
;No
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} I have mixed feelings  about this one, but I'm turning more to the "No" side. I just don't feel like interactive cartoons can be considered games.


<s>{{user|Super Mario RPG}} I don't think I ever recall it being used.</s>
====Do [[Gallery:Miscellaneous_merchandise#Rides|rides]] move to the list?====
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-9|Do not add rides to the list}}
'''Deadline''': April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Comments (Princess Particle Party!)====
;Yes
Should be of note that Palutena's Guidance [https://youtu.be/Ls0qNcpAn1E?t=53 is not the ''only'' part in Ultimate] in which Daisy is referred to as "Princess Daisy" (obviously this also applies to Peach). {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:23, March 19, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal. They were made by [[Banpresto]], usable in arcades, and required money to play.
:I can't track down the article (iirc, it was translated by SourceGaming), Masahiro Sakurai prefers dropping royal monikers in ''Smash Bros.'' games. If I recall correctly, it is to make the character more familial to the player and conserve textual space on the character selection screen. King Dedede is only called "Dedede" in the Japanese releases of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games. That does not mean "King Dedede" is not a more complete rendering of his name. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:44, March 19, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal, and per my ''Super Mario Ride'' vote.
::King K. Rool is called that in Smash, so it's clearly case-by-case (and I thought the "saving space on the character select screen" argument was debunked last time by [[List of drivers in Mario Kart Tour|Light-blue Shy Guy (Explorer)]]). Anyway, why should a "complete" name automatically be more desirable than the name that is actually used in pretty much every appearance of the character? As was mentioned in the proposal, we've established in cases like the Koopalings that the longest name doesn't have to be the name we use. What makes Daisy different? (Honestly, "Princess Daisy" probably has less of a claim to being an article title than the Koopalings' full names do.) {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:01, March 19, 2025 (EDT)
:::{{@|Hewer}} I was referring to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series and the people involved in the decisions for that series. None of them made ''Mario Kart Tour'', a more contemporaneous game. Peach has been playable in spinoffs since the 1990s and Daisy has been since 2000, where trends like this would be established on hardware more limited, and by people who may have different views on how to render their characters' name on selection screens. In ''Melee'', for example, a game with Peach, they call Captain Falcon "C. Falcon" on the [[:File:CharacterSelect-SSBMelee.png|selection screen]]. They probably could have rendered his name in full like they did for the Ice Climbers, but they didn't. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:15, March 19, 2025 (EDT)
::::I was replying to your vote on Daisy as well as your comment, sorry if that wasn't clear. Either way, I don't really understand the point you're making here. My point stands that Light-blue Shy Guy (Explorer) is in the same game as just Daisy. Captain Falcon is in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate with just Daisy. Can you name any games that call her "Princess Daisy" on a select screen (or other similarly prominent context besides "random line of dialogue", for that matter)? I'm not aware of any. Surely if all the different people working on different games came to the same conclusion that it should be Daisy rather than Princess Daisy, that's ''more'' reason for us to move it? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:32, March 19, 2025 (EDT)
:::{{@|Hewer}} In regards to "King K. Rool" - that's probably because every single language literally calls him that (at least in-game). In contrast, the reason Peach, Bowser and Dedede aren't Princess Peach, King Bowser and (JP-set) King Dedede is likely because they're literally ''Peach-hime'', ''Daimaō Koopa'' and ''Dedede-daiō'', respectively. Yes, these are simplified translations, but the nuance is different. The titles are probably getting mostly phased out because Nintendo likes it when the names of their major characters don't have to change much between regions. For example, [https://shmuplations.com/starfoxadventures/ one interview] where Takaya Imamura regretted not unifying ''Star Fox''{{'}}s Andorf as "Andross" from the start. This was also done with the big Legendary Pokémon, as I recall, etc. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:10, March 19, 2025 (EDT)


How is Rosalina a queen, exactly? I don't think that's ever been stated anywhere, and Peach is still Princess even though she explicitly rules the Mushroom Kingdom, so Rosalina ruling something wouldn't make her Queen necessarily. Speaking of, even if she's not technically ruling anything now, she's still a princess by birth (backstory and Baby Rosalina's design), and I don't think titles become null and void like that / "oh it's been (blank) years I guess I'm not a princess anymore". [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 16:03, March 19, 2025 (EDT)
;No
:I recall some interview that said she was designed to be "queenly" or some such thing either for ''Galaxy'' or ''Smash Bros.'' Granted, that could also have been a mistranslation and I could be misremembering entirely. The comment I made in my vote was primarily tongue-in-cheek, not meant to be a serious reflection of what I think. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:39, March 23, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} You don't really interact with it aside from sitting on it; if there was a more game-ified aspect to it, kinda like Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, maybe? But as it stands, this is a little too non-interactive.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote.
#{{User|Rykitu}} Once again, rides are not games. Except ''[[Būbū Mario]]''. That is a game.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Seems like not so much a game as an automated experience; games require interactivity of some kind, I'd think.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Once again per Camwoodstock and Rykitu.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.


@Pseudo: In what way is Princess Daisy "the main name that she is known by"? It certainly isn't officially, and in my experience it isn't even the more used name by fans either. And since Nintendo101 didn't really answer this question: why does a name being the "full name" mean it should automatically take priority? It didn't with [[Talk:Conker#Rename to Conker|Conker the Squirrel]], [[Talk:Bobbery#Changing Admiral Bobbery to just Bobbery|Admiral Bobbery]], [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/62#Change full names of crossover characters to the more often used shortened versions in article titles|Sonic the Hedgehog]], [[Talk:Professor E. Gadd#Rename (proposal edition)|Professor Elvin Gadd]], [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/56#Move animal names from the Donkey Kong Country series to just their normal names|Rambi the Rhino]], [[Colored Pencils|Colored Pencils, The Missile Maestro]], [[Talk:Baby DK#Move to Baby DK|Baby Donkey Kong]], [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Remove "Koopa" and other name particles from Koopaling article titles - take 2|Wendy O. Koopa]], [[Talk:Grodus#Move to Grodus|Sir Grodus]], [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/68#Move Super Princess Peach enemies to their full names|Glad Red Paratroopa]], [[Talk:TEC#Move to TEC|TEC-XX]], and indeed, Princess Rosalina. So why is Princess Daisy different? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 04:57, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
====Do the remaining water games on the list of merchandise move to the list?====
:I do agree with the argument, but I do want to just correct the mention of Glad Red Paratroopa. ''Super Princess Peach'' enemies don't actually ever show longer names than the abbreviated ones. the "full" names suggested by that proposal are ''technically'' conjectural.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 05:30, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
'''Deadline''': <s>April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
::Fair enough. That's one example down, eleven more to go. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:33, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
:I guess what I mean is that "Princess Daisy" is sort of her brand name; it's the main name that marketing materials use for her and, in my subjective experience, is what she is known as in the public consciousness. For what it's worth, I heavily disagree with the Sonic character and Koopaling renames, and would vote against them if they were relitigated today (while I abstained from these proposals at the time, my feelings on this have become more clear to myself over time). Some of these renames do make sense to me, such as E. Gadd's, but it's a case-by-case thing I guess and I don't personally see Daisy as comparable to E. Gadd in this way. I just can't see either of these renames as at all helpful to the wiki's goals. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 09:01, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
::In what way is "Princess Daisy" her "main name that marketing materials use"? Much like the games, marketing materials occasionally use it as an alternate name, not usually as her primary name. Here's a selection of official websites that list the Mario characters: [https://mario.nintendo.com/characters/ this] ("Princess Peach" and "Daisy"), [https://play.nintendo.com/themes/friends/mario/ this] ("Princess Peach" and "Daisy"; it does use "Princess Daisy" after you click on her, but not on the main list, and said list uses "Princess Peach" so length can't be the issue), [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/mario/en/characters/ this] ("Peach" and "Daisy"), and [https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/Games/Characters-hub/Super-Mario-Hub/Characters-2493286.html this] ("Princess Peach" and "Daisy"). Notice how all of them use "Daisy" as her primary name rather than "Princess Daisy", with most of them even having "Daisy" used alongside "Princess Peach". As for the "what she is known as in the public consciousness" point, I think it's fair to say popular wikis such as this one have some influence on that (and there's also the case of [[Spiny Shell (blue)|Blue Shell]] if you want an example where the official name doesn't match the common fan name, though I'd argue that "Daisy" is also a commonly used name by fans in this case). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:50, March 20, 2025 (EDT)


For reference, here's how Play Nintendo (a division of Nintendo's American website) handles the names of Peach and Daisy.
;Yes
*On the [https://play.nintendo.com/themes/friends/ "Friends"] page, the former is "Princess Peach", while the latter is "Daisy".
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Per proposal.
*A [https://play.nintendo.com/activities/puzzles/jigsaw-puzzle-princess-peach-daisy-rosalina/ puzzle activity] featuring both characters renders the former as "Princess Peach", while the latter as "Daisy".
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per ourselves in the original proposal's comments; they are interactive games with a blatant physical, mechanical element to them. The lack of "video" isn't a hurdle so long as the ''Game & Watch'' games exist.
*Similarly, coloring activities that feature the former ([https://play.nintendo.com/activities/paint-by-numbers/mushroom-kingdom-princess-peach-paint-activity/], [https://play.nintendo.com/activities/paint-by-numbers/princess-peach-paint-by-numbers-spring-2023/], [https://play.nintendo.com/activities/paint-by-numbers/paint-by-number-princess-peach-activity/]) render her name as "Princess Peach". Compare Daisy's [https://play.nintendo.com/activities/paint-by-numbers/daisy-paint-by-numbers-online-activity/ own coloring activity], where she is rendered as simply "Daisy".
#{{User|Rykitu}} Per Camwoodstock twice more.
*[https://play.nintendo.com/activities/skill-quizzes/valentines-day-mushroom-kingdom-trivia-quiz/ In this quiz], at question 2 you'll notice the "Daisy" answer; question 4 invokes "Princess Peach".
#{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Per all.
*[https://play.nintendo.com/activities/opinion-polls/mushroom-kingdom-role-model-poll/ A poll] uses the shortforms of both ("Peach" and "Daisy").
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Yeah, it's pretty much a type of game. Per Camwoodstock's comparison to Game & Watch.
#{{User|Yoshi18}} Per all.


Now, for a change of pace:
;No
*Daisy is displayed as "Princess Daisy" on [https://play.nintendo.com/themes/friends/princess-daisy/ her own profile], which doubles as the hub of Daisy-related stuff on that site.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} per my board game vote. This is not comparable to Game & Watch.
*[https://play.nintendo.com/activities/skill-quizzes/mushroom-kingdom-character-trivia-quiz/ Another pop quiz] uses "Princess Peach" and... "'''Princess''' Daisy".
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
*[https://play.nintendo.com/activities/opinion-polls/mushroom-kingdom-character-hang-out-poll/ This poll], likewise.
#{{User|SGoW}} Per all.
 
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per all.
Note that the pages linked above are not tied to any particular product, but rather the Mario series in general. Most were nevertheless published during the Switch generation, and I strived to highlight as much cross-reference material as I could find from both Daisy's profile on the site, and the [https://play.nintendo.com/search/?s=daisy search results for "daisy"] (which aren't all that different for "[https://play.nintendo.com/search/?s=princess+daisy princess daisy]"). It appears that activities which promote specific games overwhelmingly invoke characters using the same name they use in those games. In other words, "Peach" for Peach, and "Daisy" for Daisy, as expected. Some examples: [https://play.nintendo.com/activities/opinion-polls/super-mario-bros-wonder-character-poll/][https://play.nintendo.com/printables/crafts/super-mario-party-jamboree-printable-party-hats/][https://play.nintendo.com/activities/skill-quizzes/super-mario-online-trivia/][https://play.nintendo.com/activities/personality-quizzes/who-is-your-super-mario-party-jamboree-buddy/][https://play.nintendo.com/activities/personality-quizzes/mario-golf-super-rush-personality-quiz/]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:17, March 20, 2025 (EDT), edited 17:00, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
 
#{{User|YoYo}} Per all.
{{@|Camwoodstock}} ''"[...] and when Rosalina is about as much of a princess as Daisy."''<br>I don't think that's true. Daisy has been called the princess of Sarasaland as late as ''[[Super Mario Bros. Wonder]]''. Rosalina, on the other hand, I cannot recall her ever being referred to as a princess of anything. Or royalty at all, for that matter. People presumed she was "Princess Rosalina" or "Princess Rosetta" in the early years before Mario Galaxy released purely because she has that "Princess Peach"-esque look, but canonically, she's been referred to as the protector of the cosmos, the keeper of the Comet Observatory, and the mother of the Lumas; none of which are titles of royalty. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:40, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
:I agree, but the proposal is specifically about whether the characters' articles should be called "Princess Peach/Daisy/Rosalina", not whether they are canonically princesses. Let's stay on-topic. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:53, March 20, 2025 (EDT)
 
 
I shared this in private, but I was encouraged to relay this here. I principally feel a dogmatic adherence to consistency for the sake of consistency or policy for the sake of policy can lead to bad decisions. The actions proposed should stand on their own merits, and I feel like this proposal has not really made that case, or at least not to me. Regardless of how folks personally feel, Princess Peach and Princess Daisy are still regularly used in official capacities. In the headers of booklets, encyclopedias, and on the backs of merchandise. Even within in-game dialogue, especially for Peach. They are part of the general parlance and lexicon of people who play these games and are familiar with these characters. However, some folks in opposition seem to be acting like these names are inherently invalid or as archaic as the name "Princess Toadstool" or "King Koopa." If they aren't legitimately retired by the publisher and are interchangeable with "Peach" and "Daisy" in a way "Professor Elvin Gadd" or even "Princess Rosalina" never were for their characters, then why is it detrimental that they're the default names of their respective articles? What is the substantive harm? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:52, March 21, 2025 (EDT)
:That first bit about consistency also works as an argument for why Peach and Daisy don't necessarily need to be "consistent" with each other regarding whether they use the long names. Anyway, I believe that "Daisy" being the preferred official name over "Princess Daisy" is incredibly clear, and the fact that a name is sometimes used in certain cherry-picked instances doesn't override the most common and prominent usages. Everything you say about the current names being used in official sources and being familiar to fans applies just as well if not better to the names this proposal seeks to change to. You're right that the current names are used more than something like "Professor Elvin Gadd", but it's not like that has to be the cutoff point (and as I said earlier, you could certainly make an argument that Princess Daisy has less of a claim to being an article title than the Koopalings' full names do, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Remove "Koopa" and other name particles from Koopaling article titles - take 2|which you even supported shortening]]). Keeping it the way it is does not cause "substantive harm", exactly, but I don't remember anyone ever arguing that it does - the benefit of the move is to be more accurate to the overwhelming majority of official sources. And I do not understand your characterisation of this as "policy for the sake of policy", it's for the sake of accuracy to the source material, which the wiki is always striving for.<br>Here's a hypothetical to consider: if it happened that the wiki's article on Daisy had always used the name "Daisy" (and assuming everything else about the situation was unchanged), do you think you'd be pushing for a move to "Princess Daisy"? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 23:07, March 21, 2025 (EDT)
::Potentially, yes. I would. Because I think Princess Daisy is more inherently clarifying as the article title and it is exercised in modern contexts that I think are more directly parallel to how one would title articles in referential material like ours. I think there are sometimes different goals and incentives for character selection screens and the like. For example, at the end of ''Super Mario Bros. 2'' Peach is simply called "Princess," but if this site only covered SMB2, I would argue our article name for her should be "Princess Toadstool" despite it not being the name in-game.
::My view in the previous proposal on this, as well as the one concerning the Koopalings, has evolved over time. I think "Princess Peach" and "Princess Daisy" are better, more intuitive, and more clarifying article titles (especially for the former, though I do admittedly still prefer the parallel between Peach and Daisy. That's a bit less important though). In my experience, most people who engage with Nintendo games and ''Mario'' do not know these characters simply as "Peach" and "Daisy." So when you have these more clarifying names exercised in the modern era - in instruction booklets, encyclopedias, general official media, etc. - alongside the more familial "Peach" and "Daisy," what benefit does changing those names bring us? Because if anything it could create instances of navigating the site to find articles on these characters more difficult for some visitors by making their roles more opaque, at least peripherally. So I don't see any gain from this tradeoff, or an improvement of accuracy. I see it as trading a slightly more clarifying, valid, and exercised name for one that is equally valid but less clarifying. The only real benefit is that it can make piping links easier in the body texts of articles for editors, but I am personally more than willing to sacrifice editorial convenience to clarify things for readers when the option is there. I help maintain this site for them primarily, and it is for similar reasons why I did not simply title [[Crossovers with The Legend of Zelda|this article]] "''The Legend of Zelda''." - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:35, March 21, 2025 (EDT)
:::Admittedly, this response is based on personal life experience, but we've had basically the opposite happen to us; sure, people generally get it when you say "Princess Peach", but tend to raise eyebrows at "Princess Daisy" over just calling her Daisy. Calling Rosalina by "Princess Rosalina" is then promptly seen as an ''extreme'' over-correction if it's explained to them. Having quick-fire asked both friends and family about this, "Daisy" came up every time over "Princess Daisy", sans one instance of someone mistaking her for Rosalina and one giving an obvious joke answer, and in the former case, even ''then'' they omitted "Princess". Admittedly, there is probably a very large bias among family members at play as we have a dog expressly named Daisy, and our sample size here is incredibly small as this was very spur of the moment, late at night.<br>Even still, the total lack of ''any'' "Princess" particles at all here definitely reflects a very different lived experience, so while we definitely can't speak for everyone--it would be extremely silly of us to try to assert that your peers don't include "Princess" just because ours don't, that's absurd!--we can definitely vouch that, in our corner of the world, the "Princess" particle tends to be omitted. Make of this what one may, we just thought we'd share our own experiences here. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 00:28, March 22, 2025 (EDT)
:::"Princess Daisy" is the name used much less by fans in my experience too. If there actually are fans who primarily use "Princess Daisy" (ignoring for a moment the fact that I don't think that matters), I do think it's at least plausible that the wiki's usage of the name is part of the reason. Also, why is "clarification" such a big deal anyway? People who know about the Mario franchise would expect an article called "Daisy" to be about the major recurring character called that, I don't see any real potential for confusion. We shouldn't be sacrificing accuracy to appeal to some hypothetical minority who wouldn't understand what the page was about if we removed the word "Princess" from the title (and who for some reason can't just glance at the start of the article for two seconds to immediately find out). Also, this list you keep giving of "instruction booklets, encyclopedias, general official media, etc." - what exactly is this referring to? In your vote you listed Super Mario Land (so old that Peach was still Toadstool), the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia (seriously?), and "licensed promotional toys and products of Daisy" (which have never taken priority over the video games in any case I'm aware of, and which often use the shortened name anyway). I'm not a big fan of ignoring the naming policy's guidance to cherry-pick sources that use the name we'd rather have. The usage of shortened "Daisy" is not limited to character select screens as you keep implying - for instance, see the links I provided in an earlier comment, which show that most official websites use the names "Princess Peach" and "Daisy". {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:11, March 22, 2025 (EDT)
::::I do not agree that "Daisy" is a more accurate article title than "Princess Daisy." I think they are equally as valid, same with "Princess Peach" and "Peach," but again, I admittedly feel more strongly for her than Daisy. As others have mentioned, she even had a game published last year that referred to her as "Princess Peach" in the ''title''. It would be disingenuous to say "Daisy" is not used more often than "Princess Daisy," but the latter ''is'' used, whether it is in contexts you personally think should be considered valid or not. This was part of what I was saying with people treating these names as outdated and erroneous as "Princess Toadstool." These names are exercised in the modern era. So I do not think we are sacrificing accuracy by retaining the names we have. But we are sacrificing clarification, which is something I care about in maintaining reference material aimed for the public to read. This isn't a site just to be edited. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 09:55, March 22, 2025 (EDT)
:::::I still don't understand what clarification issues you think would be caused by moving to the subject's more common name. I don't know why "Daisy" would be any less clear as an article title than "Rosalina" or "Pauline" or any character name, but if there was anyone who didn't know what it meant, their confusion would be instantly quelled if they just looked at the article for a second or two. I can't imagine any context in which the supposed loss of clarity would be a problem. I'm still neutral regarding whether to move Peach since I think the argument against it is more reasonable than it is with Daisy, but I'll point out that it being used in a title isn't necessarily a deciding factor - [[Mario]] the character isn't titled "Super Mario" (which is used in the titles of some games that lack the [[Super Mario (form)|form]]). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:31, March 22, 2025 (EDT)
:::For what it's worth, Nintendo101's messages here more or less match my opinion on this subject entirely. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 09:14, March 22, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Change the moon icon for Dark Mode===
'''''NOTE:''' Yes, we see what day it is. No, this is ''not'' a prank proposal! The fact this is actually coherent should've told you that much, but in case you couldn't tell, we are being genuine about this one. However, given how silly the subject matter is, we couldn't resist.''
 
In case you somehow missed it, fairly recently, a proper dark mode was added to the wiki. You can enable it by clicking the moon icon on the top of the page; it's black on light mode, and yellow on dark mode. This ''works.'' This is adequate. We won't say it's bad by any stretch of the imagination. But look at the iconography all around it! The background has assorted icons, the wiki logo and favicon is a mushroom, and heck, for as long as we can remember, a mushroom sprite has been next to the username bar! While the alert bell and inbox icons are both a rather understandable grey, the moon actively changes colors and is positioned right next to that mushroom sprite in the username bar, which begs the question why it's like that.
 
[[File:Camwoodstock Dark Mode Icon Proposal Sprites.png|thumb|right]]
Having asked on the Discord, we've come up with 3 possible changes to make, displayed to the right there:
*'''Both Light and Dark Mode use a [[3-Up Moon]]''': Self-explanatory. Light Mode would be a white recoloring of the original ''SMW'' sprite, whereas dark mode would use the original yellow sprite.
*'''Light Mode has a [[Shine Sprite]], Dark Mode uses a [[Power Moon]]''': Similar concept, but with more modern day collectibles. We've made some edited sprites to use for this (using sprites from ''Bowser's Inside Story'' and ''Odyssey'' as a basis), but we'd be open to improvements.
*'''Do nothing:''' Light Mode uses a black crescent, dark mode uses a yellow crescent. Simple-as.
 
In addition, if there's genuine interest in doing so, we could perhaps make proposals to change the alert bell and notice inbox icons as well. For now, though, we'd like to keep it to the Dark Mode moon, as it's both new enough, and also it has the (dis)advantage of being juxtaposed directly with the mushroom next to the username, so it sticks out more to us.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Camwoodstock}}
 
====Which one for light mode?====
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
;White 3-Up Moon
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Secondary option. It's parity with the dark mode button, though we feel like making the light mode option a moon like the dark mode one is a missed opportunity.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I like how it matches the Mushroom it is next too. The Shine Sprite and Power Moon are too contemporary in aesthetics. However, I wonder if porplemontage uses the moon symbol across the wikis he manages, like SmashWiki and the like. This is speculative, but it may not be technically possible to update the moon on Super Mario Wiki and not for other wikis that share its infrastructure. But if it ''is'' possible, this is the direction I would go with.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Better aesthetic, in my opinion. The alternative sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
;Shine Sprite
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Primary option. While we stand firmly by the 3-Up Moon for dark mode, Shine Sprites are far more unique silhouette-wise.
 
;Black Crescent (status quo)
 
====Which one for dark mode?====
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT


;Yellow 3-Up Moon
====The Comment Games====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} This one's our ride-or-die option. Ever since we saw the original icon, we've kinda been hoping it'd get to be a 3-Up Moon to go alongside the ''SMB3'' Mushroom.
{{@|Nintendo101}}, unless us and everyone we know has been using it ''very'' wrong, we don't really see how the board game vote applies to [[Nintendo Today!]]... ;P <s>not that it matters, as we agree that Nintendo Today! would be overkill to include either way unless they were more interactive, but y'know,</s> {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:23, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per my vote above. I like how it compliments the Mushroom sprite it is next to aesthetically.
:Also, Wikipedia does italicise ''{{wp|Jenga}}''. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:30, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I like the sprites being the same, just palette-swapped, for the toggle. Simple's good.


;Power Moon
If we decide to keep the non-video games off the list of games, I feel like a name change to "List of video games" might be a good idea (though the link on the main page can keep it shortened to "Games" for simplicity if need be). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:43, April 5, 2025 (EDT)


;Yellow Crescent (status quo)
:{{@|Hewer}} I have an idea. Could we add a new header on the list of games (underneath the iOS stuff and the ''LEGO Super Mario'' Roku/Sky Italia games) for "physical games" or "non-electronic games", thus keeping the base list intact up to said section? [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 13:21, April 8, 2025 (EDT)
::I suppose that'd work too. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:25, April 9, 2025 (EDT)


====Comments (the sun & moon are fighting!)====
If [[Play Nintendo]] is added to the list, would we include every game in the "Play" category or will we also include the quizzes, polls, puzzles, matching and painting games? If that is the case, I am warning you that there are hundreds of those and would probably take like 75% of the whole page. {{User:Rykitu/sig}}
The sun and moon are fighting, eh? [http://brawlinthefamily.keenspot.com/comic/82-superstar/ I have a solution for that...]


In all seriousness, I'm not entirely decided on my vote, but I feel like it would be better to have an different icon from the moon for light mode. That's just my 5 cents though. [[User:BMfan08|BMfan08]] ([[User talk:BMfan08|talk]]) 20:27, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
:{{@|Rykitu}} I was thinking that for the duplicates, we could link to a handful of the most relevant ones and then stick something along the lines of "''For a complete list of [[Play Nintendo]] quizzes, see [[list of Play Nintendo skill quizzes]]''" underneath the segment. [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 13:11, April 9, 2025 (EDT)
::Ok, that works! {{User:Rykitu/sig}}


Im not sure making this a poll proposal is a good idea because the icon options are quite different stylistically. Imagine, for example, the detailed Shine Sprite sprite being used alongside the minimalistic yellow moon icon. Additionally, the Shine Sprite/Power Moon options could stand to be a little more cohesive between each other, mainly regarding the outline, but also the shading to some extent. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 20:35, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
@JanMisali: I think Nelsonic was mistaken about the amount of interactivity in Nintendo Today. The misleadingly named "quizzes" are just pages that describe a character, with no more interactivity than [https://mario.nintendo.com/characters/ the websites that the descriptions come from]. At that point, what piece of software ''wouldn't'' you consider a game? Is [[Nintendo Music]] a game? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:17, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
:We're well aware, don't worry; we'd be fine to tweak the actual images as need be, such as reducing the shading on the Shine Sprite if it wins alongside the 3-Up Moon. The images are just our little concept pieces to illustrate the point. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:38, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
:I fully sincerely believe anything with any amount of interactivity at all can be considered a game. Websites, apps, web browsers, activity books, DVD menus, and pretty much all software. I think it's better to cast a wide net and include things that 99% of people would say aren't games than it is to be too narrow and exclude things 1% of people would say are games. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 10:27, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
::That's how you make a definition so broad that it's useless. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:11, April 15, 2025 (EDT)


I'm surprised [[Angry Sun]]/[[Moon (Super Mario Maker 2)|Moon]] aren't here. There's even the perfect quote in the latter article. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:28, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
At the risk of sounding dumb, what exactly are "(electronic) water games"? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:52, April 18, 2025 (EDT)
:{{@|Hewer}} Electronic water games are usually defined as a game with both plastic and electronic components (with the electronic components usually eing more minor, such as the game requiring batteries or including lights, a timer, or sounds) that requires the playing field to be filled with water in order to play. The current "electronic water games" section on the list includes both normal water games and the electronic variety, however, as I do not believe some of them have electronic components (unless they require batteries). [[User:Nelsonic|Nelsonic]] ([[User talk:Nelsonic|talk]]) 10:10, April 19, 2025 (EDT)


===Ban the use of imperial measurements on the wiki, and replace such units with their metric equivalents===
===Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers===
The {{wp|imperial units}} system is outdated form of measurement that is literally [https://www.statista.com/chart/18300/countries-using-the-metric-or-the-imperial-system/ only used mainly in the United States and Myanmar, as well as in combination with the metric system in the United Kingdom]. As such, I feel that we should ban the use of imperial units on the wiki, in favor of switching over to the {{wp|metric system}}, with any units of measurements already in imperial units converted to their metric equivalents.
For some infoboxes like [[Template:M&LSS enemy|RPG enemy infoboxes]] or [[Template:DKC TV episode infobox|show episode infoboxes]], the work is displayed in a header (like "''Paper Mario'' enemy" or "''Super Mario World'' episode"). Others, like the generic [[Template:Level infobox|level infobox]] (which has only "Level" in a header) and the [[Template:Minigame infobox|minigame]] infobox, indicate the game in a regular field.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Maw-Ray Master}}<br>
I propose all subject infoboxes with a "Game" field or similar (exceptions and specific details below) adopt the work-in-header-cell format (like "''Super Mario World'' level"), and the "Game" or "Appears in" field be changed to "Reappearances" (present only in cases where the subject reappears, like retro ''Mario Kart'' courses or returning ''WarioWare'' microgames).
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Metric Support====
Why do that? In order to maintain consistency in the presentation of this type of info, and also because it makes more sense than having the work be indicated in a regular field, as the work is not an internal attribute of the subject (like a level's time or code, or an enemy's stats), but part of its context. Also, making work identification more clear is useful when the same infoboxes are widely used for subjects belonging to different games and series.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} Let's eradicate these measurements from the wiki!
#{{User|Hewer}} Down with imperialism!
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per proposal


====Imperial Oppose====
That would affect every infobox that has a "Game" field currently, the [[Template:Course infobox|course infobox]], and infoboxes for specific games.


====Measurement Comments====
In the end, the infoboxes affected by this change would be:
*[[Template:Board infobox]]
*[[Template:Course infobox]]
*[[Template:DDRMM song infobox]]
*[[Template:DK64 level infobox]]
*[[Template:DKC level infobox]]
*[[Template:DKC3 world infobox]]
*[[Template:DKJB kingdom infobox]]
*[[Template:DKR course infobox]]
*[[Template:DLC infobox]]
*[[Template:Golf course infobox]]
*[[Template:Kart infobox]]
*[[Template:Level infobox]]
*[[Template:LM ghost infobox]]
*[[Template:LM portrait infobox]]
*[[Template:LM room infobox]]
*[[Template:Minigame infobox]]
*[[Template:Mission infobox]]
*[[Template:M&L attack infobox]]
*[[Template:M&S episode infobox]]
*[[Template:M&S event infobox]]
*[[Template:M+RSOH planet infobox]]
*[[Template:MKDD kart infobox]]
*[[Template:MSM court infobox]]
*[[Template:PM item infobox]]
*[[Template:PMCS location infobox]]
*[[Template:PMTOK location infobox]]
*[[Template:Power Shot infobox]]
*[[Template:Race course infobox]]
*[[Template:SMG boss infobox]]
*[[Template:Space infobox]]
*[[Template:Tennis court infobox]]
*[[Template:Tour infobox]]
*[[Template:World infobox]]


===Merge Mario to Goomba===
(As for [[Template:Space infobox|spaces]], [[Template:Kart infobox|karts and kart parts]], [[Template:PM item infobox|''Paper Mario'' item]], which have an "Appears in" field, I suggest we indicate the ''series'' in the header instead (''Mario Party'', ''Mario Kart'' and ''Paper Mario''), since they are not really "tied" to the game they debuted in, but are series-wide elements.)
The pages [[Mario]] and [[Goomba]] being separate feels strange to me. Can you think of a time they aren't together? because I can't. The wiki should probably merge them, yeah?


'''Proposer''': {{User|PopitTart}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bro Hammer}}<br/>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': April 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Support: Merge Mario to Goomba====
====Support: replace regular "Game" fields and similar in infoboxes with a header cell====
#{{User|PopitTart}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Bro Hammer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} He wasn't watching ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!]]''.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I like uniformity.
#{{User|Hewer}} [[File:SMO Art - Goomba Capture.png|50px]]
#{{User|Salmancer}} I see the appeal.


====Oppose:Keep Mario and Goomba seperate====
====Oppose: do not change any infoboxes====
#{{User|Nelsonic}} I think a {{fake link|Goomba (form)}} page would make more sense.
 
====Move Both to Goombario====
#{{User|GeneralDonitsky}} It's only logical, guys. Goomba + Mario = Goombario.
 
====Comments (Marioomba)====
I made a proposal for merging every article related to other articles below, including the Mario and Goomba articles. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Move Koopa Troopa to Koopa Shell===
Much like my previous proposal, this proposal is based upon the fact that [[Koopa Troopa]]s are never seen apart from their [[Koopa Shell]]s. Really, theres no reason these should be considered distinct subjects!
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|PopitTart}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support: Move Koopa Troopa to Koopa Shell====
#{{User|PopitTart}} Pro perposal.
 
====Oppose:Do not Move Koopa Troopa to Koopa Shell====
 
====Comments (Koopa Trell)====
I made a proposal for merging every article related to other articles below, including the Koopa Troopa and Koopa Shell articles. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Merge Lakitu with Spiny Egg===
[[Lakitu]] throws [[Spiny Egg]]s. These eggs then turn into [[Spiny]]s. To be honest, I'm not sure what the best option here is, so i'm making this a multi-option proposal. Option 1 moves [[Lakitu]] to [[Spiny Egg]] while keeping [[Spiny]] seperate, while Option 2 moves them both to [[Spiny]].
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|PopitTart}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Option 1: Merge Lakitu with Spiny Egg====
 
====Option 2: Merge Lakitu AND Spiny Egg to Spiny====
#{{User|PopitTart}} Po propersal.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Tratipop Rep.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} They're all members of [[Bowser's Minions]]; this seems reasonable.
 
====Oppose: Do nothing====
 
====Comments (Lakiny Egg)====
when the april fools proposals are actually more reasonable than some of the proposals that get put here {{User:RealStuffMister/sig}} 02:53, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:I made a proposal for merging every article related to other articles below, including the Lakitu, Spiny Egg, and Spiny articles. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Separate Top of Warp Pipe from Warp Pipe===
This one is a bit ''out there'', but I think it would be better for documentation. [[Warp Pipe]]s appear primarily in 2D platformers, right? And those 2D platformers don't let you see the top of the pipes. Really, that's a distinct experience reserved for 3D games. So, I say these apperances should be in a new page titled {{Fake link|Top of Warp Pipe}}.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|PopitTart}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support: Separate Top of Warp Pipe from Warp Pipe====
#{{User|PopitTart}} Per nothing.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Per Popitart.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per Etno Polino.
 
====Oppose: Do not split====
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} The tops of [[Warp Pipe]]s are clearly visible in 2D platformers; otherwise one would not be able to travel through them in the games.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} The tops of Warp Pipes are seen on the cover art of ''[[Super Mario Bros. Wonder]]''.
 
====Comments (Pipe up)====
Uh, yeah, where's the option to... Like, merge Koopalings to Bowser?--{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:27, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:At this point, we should merge every article that is related to each other. In fact, I might actually make a proposal to do just that. This proposal runs counter to this. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 08:47, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
::I just made the aforementioned proposal. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===DAMN [[Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels|SUPER MARIO BROS.: THE LOST LEVELS]] ALL THE WAY DOWN TO HELL, AND FURTHER BELOW!!!===
This game is a travesty, alright? Poor level design, forced gimmick, traps EVERYWHERE!!! I can't it with this game!!! This proposal will decide what fate this game will endure [[file: random pic.jpg|thumb]]
'''Proposer:''' Me
 
'''Deadline:''' Over my dead body!
====LAMBAST the Lost levels====
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|YoshiHater]] ([[User talk:FanOfYoshi|talk]]) Fuck this game.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} To be honest, the game's title is completely misleading; none of the titular levels aren't even considered to be partially lost by The Lost Media Wiki, and I feel that the game's title should have "The Lost Levels" omitted from it. This might result in it sharing the same name with ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', but we can always distinguish it from that game by adding a console identifier after the title. Alternatively, we can flat-out merge the article to ''Super Mario Bros.'', since it is heavily based on this game.
#{{User|Hewer}} Yeah, our article on this game isn't cutting it. We should replace it with a Mario reskin of an article from some other wiki to save face.
#{{User|GeneralDonitsky}} This game should be Doki Doki panicking, because we're not standing for this anymore! There's only ONE Super Mario Bros. 2!
 
====No, it's a MASTERPIECE!!! Have mercy on it!====
#{{User|LinkTheLefty|LostTheLevel}} I like Lost Levels a lot.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|The True Lost Levels}} Mess with SMB:TLL (my brother), and I end this wiki.
#{{User|Rykitu|Nintendo Switch Online Rewind Feature}} There are worse games...
#{{User|Nelsonic|Famicom Disk System}} [[Hotel Mario|Per the above vote]].
 
====Why not discuss ZA instead====
#[[User: FanOfYoshi|Serena Anderson from the Pokemon X and Y games]] Uh yeah, i am really skeptical of the game, aren't you guys?
====Trash talk====
Bowser's brother is the only décent thing in the game. [[user:fanOfYoshi|FanOfBlueBowser]] 08:29, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Merge Koopley and Korvallis===
They're clearly the same person. [[Koops]] says so himself. Just not sure what name to use for the merged page.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Technetium}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Move to Koopley====
 
====Move to Korvallis====
#{{User|Technetium}} Way cooler name.
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} They're both [[Koopa Troopa]]s, and I'm sure Koopley would love to reunite with his father.
 
====Move to [[Kuzzle]]====
#{{User|GeneralDonitsky}} This poor senile man needs people to support him in his life.
 
====Do nothing====
 
====Comments (hi Comments I'm dad)====
I like your suggestion so I'll keep it, but maybe we should merge Kuzzle and Kroop instead? [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 11:02, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:They can all be merged with each other through my article-merging proposal below. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Merge every article that is related to each other in some way===
Several proposals requesting the merging articles to other articles today have prompted me to create a new proposal that will settle all of these proposals. I propose that we merge every article that is related to their other articles to their original source. This would mean that [[Luigi]] would be merged to [[Mario]]; [[Waluigi]] is merged with [[Wario]], etc. I know this also means that ''[[Club Mario]]'', which I have working recently and honestly enjoy, will be merged to ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!]]'', but at least it means it will be seen by more visitors, as the latter is much more popular than the former.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Maw-Ray Master}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Merge everything====
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} I finally get to reunite with my parents, who are [[Mega Maw-Ray]]s.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} THE REVIVAL OF THE SUPERARTICLE IS UPON US!
 
====Keep seperate====
#{{User|Technetium}} No because everything would end up merged into [[Donkey Kong]] and I don't want to acknowledge the existence of… donkey kong country hd returns.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} Wouldn't this mean that everything before 2023 and after 1994 just gets merged into [[Charles Martinet]]?
 
====Mergeomments====
I'd like to thank [[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]] for [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Proposals/April Fool's 2020#Merge every article into a single superarticle|inspiring me]] to come up with this idea. I really appreciate it. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 10:02, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Cambiar el idioma del todo wiki en español===
Estuve buscando una traducción del wiki en español, pero no pude encontrar una. Por ello, propongo que el todo wiki deba haber su idioma cambiado en español, porque no comprendo el inglés ni lo hablo en.
 
'''Proponedor''': [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maestro de las morenas gigantes]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|hablar]])<br>
'''Fecha límite''': 15 abril 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Apoyar====
#[[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maestro de las morenas gigantes]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|hablar]]) Por propuesta.
#{{User|EvieMaybe|Eve, quizás}} viva la patria!
#{{User|Hewer|Cortador}} "Esta es una wiki en inglés" ya no será un argumento.
 
====Oponer====
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Just...just change the language to Spanish in the "Internationalisation" section of Preferences.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Désolé, je me comprends pas cette langue. Je ne comprends que le Français.
 
====Comentarios====
Verander de taal van de fanwiki naar Nederlands. #{{User|GeneralDonitsky}} Al kost het me 80 jaar...
 
@SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA): Intento cambiar el idioma en español en Preferencias, pero solo cambia el idioma de mi página para hablar; necesitamos cambiar el idioma del todo wiki en español porque no comprendo el inglés ni lo hablo en. [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maestro de las morenas gigantes]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|hablar]]) 11:22, 1 abril 2025 (EDT)
 
===Merge all users===
This is the solution for wiki peace. If we all merge into one user, there will be no more proposals, vandalism, edit warring, you name it. Of course, the hivemind will be named after me, its creator. But you can suggest other names, I guess... There aren't any better ones though!
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Technetium}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Create the hivemind known as Technetium====
#{{User|Technetium}} As proposer.
 
====I don't need friends!====
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} Wait, isn't [[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] the proprietor of the site? If so, the hivemind should be named after him.
#{{User|BMfan08}} Are you kidding? If we were the sum of all users, then we'd do ALL the vandalism and ALL the nasty stuff. Plus, since we have every role simultaneously, we'd ban ourselves, and boom. Dead wiki.
#{{User|Nelsonic}} [[User:Willy on Wheels|Oh dear.]]
 
====Comment (singular)====
If this proposal passes, what happens to Porplemontage? Does he become part of the hivemind? [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 12:20, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:Yes. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 12:20, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Fix neutrality===
This entire site has a pro-Mario, anti-Bowser bias. What happened to neutrality?? What happened to getting both sides of the story???
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Green Star}}<br>
'''Deadline''': Right now
 
====Stay based====
#{{User|Green Star}} Per my reasoning above.
#{{User|BMfan08|Super WARIO Wiki}} I don't care, just as long as that red cap guy gets his just desserts! HAHAHA!
 
====Stay biased====
 
====what====
Surely a proposal of this caliber would require a name change to the wiki, right? [[User:BMfan08|BMfan08]] ([[User talk:BMfan08|talk]]) 12:47, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:Yes, "Super Mario & Bowser Wiki" would be better suited. {{User:Green Star/sig}} 13:08, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
==Miscellaneous==
===Expand the scope of the wiki to include non-official media, such as fanfics and fan-theories===
My friends, liberation has arrived. We shall no longer refuse the truth;this project is not everything Mario. Who sais Mario can only be defined by Nintendo? Miyamoto may be Mario's father, but this project should not be about Mario the character, but Mario the idea. Mario is a world-changing figure and every single interpretation of him should be included. Every fanfic... every theory... every creepypasta... and every overly-edgy 2000s parody video. Let's embrace the truth, Mario shouldn't be in the clutches of Nintendo, but he should be FREE! REVOLUTION TODAY! First articles that should be made are; Mario is a sociopath, The Super Mario Five Nights at Freddies mod and Mr. Doctor.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|GeneralDonitsky|The Mario Liberation Front}}
 
'''Deadline:''' ''Liberation can't be limited by a deadline, thank you very much''
 
====People who love kittens and puppies (yes)====
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Yes, and if we do this, then we should go beyond. Not just all the Marios, but all those who inspired the existence of Mario, and all those whose existence was inspired by Mario. Then we keep going. Until ALL are covered in this wiki. NOTHING WILL STOP THE LIBERATION OF MARIO!
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} More content for the wiki!
#{{User|Murphmario}} Supporting this so that ''Super Mario 63'' can finally get the page it rightfully deserves.
 
====People who don't (no)====
 
====Fanon comments====
Wait, does that mean that every user on the Super Mario Wiki gets an article? [[User:Maw-Ray Master|Maw-Ray Master]] ([[User talk:Maw-Ray Master|talk]]) 11:51, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
:I hope so. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
::Wait, on that note...do I get an article? And what about the other yous? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
:::Wait...other mes? As in the ones from the various stuff I referenced in the infobox on my userpage? Those exist!? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
::::Yes, they do. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
:::::Well, I guess they get pages too then. And you get one as well. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
::::::":-)" (in quotes so there's no oof) {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}
 
===Ban Bowser from this wiki===
We've had enough. After countless second chances, it is starting to become very clear that Doug Bowser has no intentions of changing his ways. Despite hundreds of terrorist attacks on the Mushroom Kingdom, thousands of sockpuppet accounts and an untold number of Toads killed, we were always ready to forgive Bowser and give him another chance at redemption. But this time he crossed the line. Today, in an unthought of act of cruelty, Bowser has stormed into the mushroom castle and kidnapped Princess Peach. I call for Super Mario Wiki staff to block Bowser once and for all.
 
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Axii}}<br/>
'''Deadline:''' 5 seconds.
 
====Ban Bowser.====
#{{User|Axii}}
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} #CancelBowser
 
====Oppose====
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} Why should Bowser be banned? The [[Mushroom Kingdom]] regime should be overthrown instead, as it has committed numerous atrocities against the Bowser Democracy Party (BDP), including [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Fanon#1989 Mushroom Kingdom massacre|a massacre in 1989]] that slaughtered many [[Koopa Troopa]] demonstrators trying to protest several issues in regards to the Mushroom Kingdom, including the inflation of [[regional coin]]s and corruption, as well as civil [[Goomba]]s, in attempt to infringe on personal rights and freedom. As such, we should actually ban the [[Mushroom Kingdom]], as well any affiliates of it, from the wiki.
 
====Comments====
I was going to do a thing like this one myself but I forgot about it so I can't thank you enough {{@|Axii}} --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:13, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
 
===Free us from the timeloop===
[[File:WL4-Vortex2.gif|right]]
Help
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Camwoodstock}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>November 12, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to November 19, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to April 18, 1972, 23:59 GMT</s>  <s>Extended to December 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s>  <s>Extended to December 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to December 5, 2023, 23:59 GMT</s>  <s>Extended to December 24, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to December 31, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to January 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to January 14, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Unextended to March 20, 10000 BC, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to January 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to January 28, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to February 4, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to February 11, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to February 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to February 25, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to March 4, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to March 11, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to March 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to March 25, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to April 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to April 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Ok====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Please
#{{User|Maw-Ray Master}} [https://thestanleyparable.fandom.com/wiki/The_End_Is_Never... The end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the...]
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|Future SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} I'll help you!
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} If future me's helping you, then so will I!
#{{User|Nelsonic}} "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." - ''{{wp|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}''
 
====SUFFER MORE====
#{{User|Technetium}} Why are you already implementing the time travel to the future proposal when it hasn't passed yet?
#{{User|PopitTart}} NO CONSENSUS REACHED.
#{{User|Hewer}} Fear not. I believe I have come up with [[#Invent time travel to the future|a better solution]].
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I WANNA GO TO THE 90's AND OTHER YEARS OF PAST BUT I CANNOT!!!
 
====Cubeerry====
 
====Comments ([brief proposal title])====
 
 
===The FUNKY NATION===
Hey, everyone! This is a célébration of our dear Funky Kong's mere existence, so let's all stand up, and hear it for [https://youtu.be/A8mgAP-tTF0?si=8gbROZ6PcKv_K3Fl THE FUNKY ANTHEM]!!!
 
 
Proposer: '''[[User:FanOfYoshi|A Pokemon trainer]]'''
 
Deadline NO!!!
====Preach!!!====
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|Pokemon Trainer Yoshi]]  [[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
====PREACH HARDER!!!====
#[[User:FanOfYoshi|Pokemon Trainer Yoshi]]
[[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
#[[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)|The Real Funky Kong]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
[[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
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#[[User:Sdman213]]
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====Spam====
[[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
[[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
[[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]][[File:FunkyKongAwards1.gif|50px]]
 
===Allow the use of made-up names from fan projects as redirects===
It has come to my attention that several fan projects make up names (eg. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68kvj3-pfJo Mario Builder 64] making up [[Crystal Tap|Water Diamond]] and [[Flame thrower (Flame Chomp)|Fire Spitter]]). I think this is liberating and not at all limiting, like that one time [[Game Freak]] was too cowardly to canonize a Flying-type Eeveelution because they knew they couldn't outdo a fan's perfection. If [[Nintendo]]g can't give us the true canon names, then the least we can do is, as fans, allow them as redirects.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
 
'''Deadline''': April 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support====
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I know what you're thinking this is a joke, but I've never been more serious in my
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} God Slayer Bowser should return because what God would put us in this torment
 
====Oppose====
hack
 
====Comments====
sorry i almost choked on my pocky [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:36, April 1, 2025 (EDT)


[[#Expand the scope of the wiki to include non-official media, such as fanfics and fan-theories|Why stop at redirects]]? [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|35px|link=User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=User talk:Hewer|talk]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]] &middot; [[File:HamburgerSSBB.PNG|25px|link=Special:EditCount/Hewer|edit count]]) 13:02, April 1, 2025 (EDT)
====Comments (Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers)====
My understanding is that Power Shots are exclusive to exactly two Mario Tennis games, ''[[Mario Power Tennis]]'' and ''[[Mario Tennis: Power Tour]]''. And of them, only twelve appear in both games. At that point, you might as well just have those twelve them say "Mario Power Tennis Power Shot" and say they reappear in ''Mario Tennis: Power Tour''. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 13:45, April 11, 2025 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 20:31, April 21, 2025

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Tuesday, April 22nd, 00:31 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. A given user may author/co-author up to five ongoing proposals. Any additional proposals will be immediately canceled.
  3. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  4. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  5. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available. Keep in mind that we use approval voting, so all of your votes count equally regardless of preferred order.
  6. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  7. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  8. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  9. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  10. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  11. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  13. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  14. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  15. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  16. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  17. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  18. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  19. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  20. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  21. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  22. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple subissues that can be resolved independently of each other. In a poll proposal, each option is essentially its own mini-proposal with a deadline and suboption headings. The rules above apply to each option as if it were its own proposal: users may vote on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then the status quo wins for that option by default. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

For the purposes of the ongoing proposals list, a poll proposal's deadline is the latest deadline of any ongoing option(s). A poll proposal is archived after all of its options have settled, and it is listed as one single proposal in the archive. It is considered to have "passed" if one or more options were approved by voters (resulting in a change from the status quo), and it is considered to have "failed" if all options were rejected by voters and no change in the status quo was made.

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)
Merge intro/outro sections, rename Gameplay section to "Overview" for Mario Party minigame articles, ToxBoxity64 (ended March 1, 2025)
Allow English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia names to be mentioned on articles where they are not the title, Hewer (ended March 27, 2025)
Create pages for the Captain N episodes where Donkey Kong is a central character, Glowsquid (ended April 1, 2025)
Make a page for the Nintendo Switch 2 Welcome Tour, Koopa con Carne (ended April 11, 2025)
Split Mario & Sonic game categories by version, Technetium (ended April 16, 2025)
Change previous and next entries cell in infoboxes to include actual entry names and change directory link, Bro Hammer (ended April 18, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy, Waluigi Time (ended February 8, 2025)
Split Animal Crossing (game), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)
Split the modes in the Battles page, Mario (ended February 15, 2025)
Count ongoing serialized comics for latest appearances, Rykitu (ended March 2, 2025)
Split Super Mario Maker helmets from Buzzy Shell and Spiny Shell (red), PopitTart (ended March 12, 2025)
Restructure Yoshi's Island (series) into Yoshi (series), PopitTart (ended March 19, 2025)
Merge Mario Party 4 hosts with their species, Kirby the Formling (ended March 23, 2025)
Split Super Luigi subjects into a dedicated list article, EvieMaybe (ended April 3, 2025)
Refocus Papa Mario as "Mario's dad", Superstarxalien169 (ended April 4, 2025)
Merge the list of references to Super Mario Bros. with Super Mario Bros., Waluigi Time (ended April 6, 2025)
Split Hammer (move) from Hammer, Blinker (ended April 10, 2025)
Give Nathaniel's Fun Factory full coverage, Nelsonic (ended April 12, 2025)
Split Kongo Bongo Island and Jungle Kingdom from Donkey Kong Island, Kaptain Skurvy (ended April 20, 2025)
Split Donkey Kong's history section, ThunderBrine (ended April 20, 2025)
Split Yoshi's history section, ThunderBrine (ended April 20, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Split the talk page proposals list into sections

Isn't it weird how the main page proposals are split between "New features", "Removals", "Changes", and "Miscellaneous", yet the talk page proposals are all in one big list? Even though there's way more talk page than main page proposals? I think that's pretty weird.

The benefits of sorting talk page proposals
  • Makes individual proposals easier to spot and parse by breaking up the list into easier to read chunks
  • Groups similar proposals together
  • Parity with main page proposals
The downsides of sorting talk page proposals
  • The list stops being fully chronological
  • I can't think of another downside

As per PopitTart on the Discord server, the categories should be "Splits", "Merges", "Moves", and "Miscellaneous", since they're by far the most common reason folks make a talk page proposal.

Proposer: EvieMaybe (talk)
Deadline: May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Split the talk page proposals

  1. EvieMaybe (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Thank you. This is well overdue, as the TPP list has been kind of a rat's nest as of late; literally any organization is well worth it, in our opinion. Per proposal.

Do not split the talk page proposals

"Talk the proposal split" page (Comments)

What if a proposal falls into multiple categories? For instance, this was both a merge and move proposal, this was both a move and split proposal, this is both a merge and split proposal... Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:08, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

either "Miscellaneous" or whatever the most relevant category is, same way as if a main page proposal fell into multiple categories. up to the proposer's discretion. — Super Leaf stamp from Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury.eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 13:20, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Split lists of changes from remakes' articles

(OK, it has been like ten years since I last made a Proposal, so forgive me if something is wrong.)

It has come to my attention, from trying to browse the TTYD Switch remake article, not as an editor, but as a player looking for specific information, just how awfully nightmarish it is to navigate it when 80%+ of the content is a massive list of changes that, while interesting, should definitely not be the focus of four fifths of the article (nor the first proper section in it, but that's not the focus of this Proposal), particularly when many people searching for the article have possibly only played the remake and as such this information would be mostly irrelevant at best. We already split glitches, staff, beta elements, etc... Why not this?

Proposer: Henry Tucayo Clay (talk)
Deadline: May 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Henry Tucayo Clay (talk) - Per proposal

Oppose

  1. YoYo (talk) If you're going on the page for the remake specifically, chances are you are looking for what changes there are. Splitting all that information off would reduce the page for the remake into almost nothing comparatively, defeating the purpose of the page to begin with. - YoYo Yoshi Head (light blue) from Mario Kart: Super Circuit (Talk) 12:55, April 21, 2025 (EDT)
  2. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) What's the point of having reissues split from the original game if the article doesn't cover the changes that are present? Isn't that, like, the main reason they're split in the first place? The Virtual Console version of Super Mario Bros. isn't split because...it's just Super Mario Bros., but the Game Boy Color version of Donkey Kong Country is split from the SNES version of Donkey Kong Country because it introduces changes such as Candy's Challenge, Funky Fishing, a new level, etc., and most people are gonna want to read about these changes on the reissue's article! Just makes something so simple so confusing.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  4. Nelsonic (talk) Per all. Some releases (specifically enhanced ports) have minimal changes (such as Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Donkey Kong Country Returns HD, and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe), so this would strip most of the content from those pages. And in the cases of full remakes, like Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Mario Bros. Returns, Super Mario Advance, and Super Mario 64 DS, the page would just end up becoming a paragraphs long. For example, if the changes between Super Mario Bros. and VS. Super Mario Bros. were split off into a separate article, the VS. Super Mario Bros. article would simply discuss the production of the game, how it was never released in Japan, and its Arcade Archives port. This would also result in drastically shortening the pages for Super Mario All-Stars, Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World, Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition, and Super Mario 3D All-Stars, since the main selling point of those games is their changes from the original version.
  5. Arend (talk) Splitting the changes off would result in the remaining page being really barren in order to avoid repeated content. At that point, what would be the point of keeping the remake split, then?
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) Now, admittedly; we can see the merit of listing the content of a game outside of the context of "what's different in this port?". We killed "Once And Only Once" for a reason; sometimes, it's nice to just. Have a table of what exactly is in that specific incarnation of the game. The issue is, that's not currently the state the majority of remake articles are in, and these lists are either most, or all, you have. The TTYD remake page, and our personal bugbear, the Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions page in particular, would become about as short as a page like Super Mario Bros. Special, and those are multi-hour long RPGs versus a 2-or-so hour long platformer game. In a world where these pages are more direct about the contents of their remakes beyond a bullet-pointed list, this would be fine, but we are not there yet. Therefore, the lists stay on the same page.
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) per Camwoodstock. a decision like this should come from changing how we cover reissues entirely. with our current reissue coverage policy, splitting the differences is basically splitting the main meat of the article.

Comments

@YoYo: If you are specifically looking for changes from the original to the remake, wouldn't a dedicated article make more sense, then? --TucayoSig.png™ The 'Shroom 13:33, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

What else would you look for in a remake's page other than the changes? If you're looking for original info, you go to the original game's page. If you're looking for what the remake added/changed/removed, you go to the remake's page. — Lady Sophie Wiggler Sophie.png (T|C) 18:34, April 21, 2025 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

What is a game?

Per @Camwoodstock's comments on the ongoing electronic water-related proposal on the list of games. The way that a game is considered a game is currently arbitrary, with board games being split to one list, card games being relegated elsewhere, Play Nintendo getting its own list, and Nintendo Today! quizzes all being merged into the app's article. This proposal aims to decide what gets on the list of games article, since there isn't anything on that page that explicitly states that the games listed have to be video games (minus the text "organized by video game system", but this can be changed). To note, this proposal is not suggesting that anything should be removed from the list, the goal of this proposal is to figure out whether or not anything should be added to the list of games.

Proposer: Nelsonic (talk)

Do board games move to the list?

Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments; this feels like kind of a no-brainer, and we're surprised these have been excluded from the Games list for as long as they have been. Board games are like, a known concept, they've been around for millennia, and heck, games like Mario Party-e exist as a hybrid board game/video game. Excluding board games feels very arbitrary, just because they aren't "video" games, but we've included the Game & Watch titles for forever, with basically no contention whatsoever, despite those not technically meeting the definition of being a "video" game.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) The article is titled the "list of games," not the "list of VIDEO games." It'd be nice if this page just covered every game of every type, especially seeing how I consider board games (or anything of the sort) to be closer to games than merchandise. Besides, they are called board GAMES, so why shouldn't they be included on the "list of GAMES"?
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per all. Board games are pretty unambiguously "games".
  6. Pseudo (talk) Per Camwoodstock. While I understand Nintendo101's point about board games often being promotional tie-in products, they are still Mario franchise media in their own right, and a kind of game at that.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all. As a big Mario Party fan. I feel like board games fit to the category of games
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) This is not to disparage board games or other types of media of this nature, but I think it would be healthier for our site to have distinction between a "video game" and "promotional tie-in media and products." I do not think being interactive is enough for it count as a "game" within the context of a video game-oriented franchise, in the same way I would not include instruction booklets in a list of books because they have readable text. This kind of stuff should be supported on the site, but not here.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) per Nintendo101. There are a lot of different mediums for games in this world, but it's indisputable that the Mario franchise manifests itself most often in video games, and I believe this specific list is better off focusing on those, with an appropriate move to "List of video games". I can see the appeal and use of a page for Mario games that are not video games, though, and I support creating that. The wiki currently considers these games to be "merchandise", which I consider apt for some (like the shampoo bottles) but something of a stretch for others (board games).
  3. Hewer (talk) Per Koopa con Carne. I'm not denying that board games are games, but they're not video games, and I think "List of video games" would be a more useful page for this wiki about a primarily video game franchise than "List of games".
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all. I would rather the wiki not mix the core media of the Mario franchise (video games) with miscellaneous pieces of merchandise such as board games.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per Koopa con Carne
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.

Do card games move to the list?

Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments, and the same rationale behind board games. Sure, it's not a "video" game, but this is List of Games, not List of Video Games.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock again.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per my board game vote.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Per Camwoodstock and my above vote for board games.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. Hewer (talk) Same as the board game vote.
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.

Do party games (i.e. Jenga) move to the list?

Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. This is gonna be appearing a few more times...
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock yet again.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Also per my board game vote.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Also a mere semantic distinction between party games like this and board games, in my view.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Things like Jenga are such family games, like Mario Party. I have the feeling they should've already been classified as games long ago.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote. (You also do not italicize Jenga.)
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. Hewer (talk) Same as the card game vote.
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.

Do physical games (i.e. Barrel of Monkeys-style things with physical characters and pieces) move to the list?

Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original comments, and the rationale behind board games. You get it, right?
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock once more.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Yet again per my board game vote.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Per my other "yes" votes.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. Hewer (talk) Same as the party game vote.
  4. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  6. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  7. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  8. Platform (talk) Per all.
  9. LadySophie17 (talk) Per Nintendo101.

Does Super Mario Ride move to the list?

Do not add Super Mario Ride to the list 2-10
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. It is currently listed under "Other Super Mario-themed games" on the list of merchandise.
  2. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal. I'm a maximal inclusivist when it comes to these things, so I think anything anyone could plausibly conceptualize as "a game" ought to be classified as a game for navigational purposes.
No
  1. Camwoodstock (talk) From the looks of it, those are toy cars; those are toys, not games. Them being listed as "other Super Mario-themed games" feels like a bit of a misnomer.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote above.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Rides are not games.
  4. Pseudo (talk) If it's a toy and not a game, it probably shouldn't count. This is a slightly different category of item.
  5. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all.
  6. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  7. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  8. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  9. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  10. Platform (talk) Per all.

Do Play Nintendo games move to the list?

Add Play Nintendo games to the list 9-0
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. There's a dedicated HTML section now.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) With an HTML section in tow, we feel it's only fair.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Sure.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) We have other browser games on the list, why not these?
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal. Even if the term we were using was "video game" instead of just "game" I would think these should count.
  6. Pseudo (talk) These seems like games as much as a typical Flash game of old, which we already include in the list of games, so this seems more clear cut than any of the others.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per Nelsonic and Camwoodstock.
  8. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  9. Platform (talk) Per all.
No

Does Nintendo Today! move to the list?

Do not add Nintendo Today! to the list 2-11
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. It has many interactive elements, such as quizzes.
  2. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal. I understand everyone else's hesitation, but Nelsonic has a point!
No
  1. 1468z (talk) The only thing that comes the closest to the definition of game and is related to Mario is the silhouette quizzes, which despite their name are actually just articles with a profile of a character without any interactive elements. It's not that different from something you would find on Nintendo's website.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) To be honest, we're a bit on the fence, but we're leaning on this for now. Maybe if there were more active game elements to them, but as it stands, these are just articles at the moment with no real interactive elements aside from. Clicking it and reading it.
  3. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  4. Hewer (talk) Per Shinya Takahashi ("[Nintendo Today] is something a little different that's not a game").
  5. Rykitu (talk) Per all. If you really think about it, if we count Nintendo Today as a game, that would mean the Super Mario Wiki would be considered a game.
  6. Pseudo (talk) This seems like not so much of a game to me as a platform for games (in addition to other media); at most, I'd support adding this app's individual included games to the list.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all. Nintendo Today! is basically just a daily newspaper (similar to The 'Shroom).
  8. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  9. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  10. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  11. Platform (talk) Per all.

Does Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land move to the list?

Add Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land to the list 8-2
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. It was an interactive VHS tape that required the user to press buttons at certain points.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) By our own definition of it being an "interactive game", yes, even if it's just a VHS analogue to those Play Nintendo quizzes, you can get a question wrong and stuff will still happen.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per all.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per all. Somewhat surprised it wasn't already being considered a game.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Eh, more or less? It's sort of an edge case but it's still primarily intended as interactive, just in an unusual format. It is definitely a "game" that relies on "video" for displaying its contents.
  7. Koopa con Carne (talk) Checks both the "video" and the "game" parts of "video game". As long as Dragon's Lair is considered a video game, this should too.
  8. YoYo (talk) Per all.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  2. Yoshi18 (talk) I have mixed feelings about this one, but I'm turning more to the "No" side. I just don't feel like interactive cartoons can be considered games.

Do rides move to the list?

Do not add rides to the list 2-9
Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal. They were made by Banpresto, usable in arcades, and required money to play.
  2. JanMisali (talk) Per proposal, and per my Super Mario Ride vote.
No
  1. Camwoodstock (talk) You don't really interact with it aside from sitting on it; if there was a more game-ified aspect to it, kinda like Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, maybe? But as it stands, this is a little too non-interactive.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Once again, rides are not games. Except Būbū Mario. That is a game.
  4. Pseudo (talk) Seems like not so much a game as an automated experience; games require interactivity of some kind, I'd think.
  5. Yoshi18 (talk) Once again per Camwoodstock and Rykitu.
  6. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  7. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  8. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  9. Platform (talk) Per all.

Do the remaining water games on the list of merchandise move to the list?

Deadline: April 19, 2025, 23:59 GMT April 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Yes
  1. Nelsonic (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Per ourselves in the original proposal's comments; they are interactive games with a blatant physical, mechanical element to them. The lack of "video" isn't a hurdle so long as the Game & Watch games exist.
  3. Rykitu (talk) Per Camwoodstock twice more.
  4. Kaptain Skurvy (talk) Per all.
  5. JanMisali (talk) Per all.
  6. Pseudo (talk) Yeah, it's pretty much a type of game. Per Camwoodstock's comparison to Game & Watch.
  7. Yoshi18 (talk) Per all.
No
  1. Nintendo101 (talk) per my board game vote. This is not comparable to Game & Watch.
  2. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per Nintendo 101 and my board game vote.
  3. SGoW (talk) Per all.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per all.
  5. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
  6. YoYo (talk) Per all.
  7. Platform (talk) Per all.

The Comment Games

@Nintendo101, unless us and everyone we know has been using it very wrong, we don't really see how the board game vote applies to Nintendo Today!... ;P not that it matters, as we agree that Nintendo Today! would be overkill to include either way unless they were more interactive, but y'know, Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock ( talk • contribs ) Camwoodstock-sigicon2.png 20:23, April 5, 2025 (EDT)

Also, Wikipedia does italicise Jenga. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 20:30, April 5, 2025 (EDT)

If we decide to keep the non-video games off the list of games, I feel like a name change to "List of video games" might be a good idea (though the link on the main page can keep it shortened to "Games" for simplicity if need be). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 20:43, April 5, 2025 (EDT)

@Hewer I have an idea. Could we add a new header on the list of games (underneath the iOS stuff and the LEGO Super Mario Roku/Sky Italia games) for "physical games" or "non-electronic games", thus keeping the base list intact up to said section? Nelsonic (talk) 13:21, April 8, 2025 (EDT)
I suppose that'd work too. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:25, April 9, 2025 (EDT)

If Play Nintendo is added to the list, would we include every game in the "Play" category or will we also include the quizzes, polls, puzzles, matching and painting games? If that is the case, I am warning you that there are hundreds of those and would probably take like 75% of the whole page. Sprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.RykituSprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.

@Rykitu I was thinking that for the duplicates, we could link to a handful of the most relevant ones and then stick something along the lines of "For a complete list of Play Nintendo quizzes, see list of Play Nintendo skill quizzes" underneath the segment. Nelsonic (talk) 13:11, April 9, 2025 (EDT)
Ok, that works! Sprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.RykituSprite of Lakitu from Super Mario Bros.

@JanMisali: I think Nelsonic was mistaken about the amount of interactivity in Nintendo Today. The misleadingly named "quizzes" are just pages that describe a character, with no more interactivity than the websites that the descriptions come from. At that point, what piece of software wouldn't you consider a game? Is Nintendo Music a game? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:17, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

I fully sincerely believe anything with any amount of interactivity at all can be considered a game. Websites, apps, web browsers, activity books, DVD menus, and pretty much all software. I think it's better to cast a wide net and include things that 99% of people would say aren't games than it is to be too narrow and exclude things 1% of people would say are games. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 10:27, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
That's how you make a definition so broad that it's useless. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:11, April 15, 2025 (EDT)

At the risk of sounding dumb, what exactly are "(electronic) water games"? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 06:52, April 18, 2025 (EDT)

@Hewer Electronic water games are usually defined as a game with both plastic and electronic components (with the electronic components usually eing more minor, such as the game requiring batteries or including lights, a timer, or sounds) that requires the playing field to be filled with water in order to play. The current "electronic water games" section on the list includes both normal water games and the electronic variety, however, as I do not believe some of them have electronic components (unless they require batteries). Nelsonic (talk) 10:10, April 19, 2025 (EDT)

Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers

For some infoboxes like RPG enemy infoboxes or show episode infoboxes, the work is displayed in a header (like "Paper Mario enemy" or "Super Mario World episode"). Others, like the generic level infobox (which has only "Level" in a header) and the minigame infobox, indicate the game in a regular field.

I propose all subject infoboxes with a "Game" field or similar (exceptions and specific details below) adopt the work-in-header-cell format (like "Super Mario World level"), and the "Game" or "Appears in" field be changed to "Reappearances" (present only in cases where the subject reappears, like retro Mario Kart courses or returning WarioWare microgames).

Why do that? In order to maintain consistency in the presentation of this type of info, and also because it makes more sense than having the work be indicated in a regular field, as the work is not an internal attribute of the subject (like a level's time or code, or an enemy's stats), but part of its context. Also, making work identification more clear is useful when the same infoboxes are widely used for subjects belonging to different games and series.

That would affect every infobox that has a "Game" field currently, the course infobox, and infoboxes for specific games.

In the end, the infoboxes affected by this change would be:

(As for spaces, karts and kart parts, Paper Mario item, which have an "Appears in" field, I suggest we indicate the series in the header instead (Mario Party, Mario Kart and Paper Mario), since they are not really "tied" to the game they debuted in, but are series-wide elements.)

Proposer: Bro Hammer (talk)
Deadline: April 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support: replace regular "Game" fields and similar in infoboxes with a header cell

  1. Bro Hammer (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Ahemtoday (talk) I like uniformity.
  3. Salmancer (talk) I see the appeal.

Oppose: do not change any infoboxes

Comments (Uniformly indicate subjects' work of origin in infobox headers)

My understanding is that Power Shots are exclusive to exactly two Mario Tennis games, Mario Power Tennis and Mario Tennis: Power Tour. And of them, only twelve appear in both games. At that point, you might as well just have those twelve them say "Mario Power Tennis Power Shot" and say they reappear in Mario Tennis: Power Tour. Salmancer (talk) 13:45, April 11, 2025 (EDT)

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