MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/72

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All past proposals are archived here. Please add archived proposals to the bottom of the page.
Previous proposals

Add an abbreviation template to type out full game titles

Add template 8-0
This proposal is about creating a template that it makes it easier to type out full game titles. Although The Legend of Zelda games generally have longer titles (and Zelda Wiki even has templates for some of their shorter titled games, like Hyrule Warriors, here), there have still been cases in which some game titles are uncomfortably long, such as Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! or Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and while it may seem like not a big deal to some, it would be a small quality-of-life improvement if we could have a template where we input the abbreviation, and the output becomes the game title.

For example, {{a|M&LSS}} would result in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga (complete with italics formatting). Meanwhile, {{a|M&LSS|l}} to link to the game, outputting Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, although depending on who creates the template, it could be vice versa, like it links by default and {{a|M&LSS|n}} would prevent a link.

Since Super Mario has several releases, it may get difficult maintaining with all the abbreviations, and there have been cases where two games have shared the same abbreviation. (e.g. SMS for both Mario Sunshine and Mario Strikers). In that case, either {{a|SMS|2002}} (with the year of release) or a custom abbreviation (e.g. {{a|SMShine}}) would be needed (personally I'd prefer the latter).

Consider we already have similar templates for Princess Peach and Princess Daisy (i.e. {{Peach}} and {{Daisy}}), and both of their full titles (with "Princess" included) is a lot shorter than the two game titles in the first paragraph.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on December 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) We don't see the harm in this, even if it would admittedly be fairly niche. The only real complaint we have is the lack of an additional parameter for changing the displayed text, so if we need to say something like "in the remake", we have to write that out the old-fashioned way.
  3. EvieMaybe (talk) might make some link-heavy pages lighter!
  4. Salmancer (talk) Words cannot express the relief that my fingers would feel if they never have to type out "Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey" again.
  5. Tails777 (talk) Mario already took my example, but it still stands; the amount of times I've had to type out that title (or even the abbreviation for it) was incredibly annoying. Per all.
  6. Scrooge200 (talk) Yes, these titles can be a pain to write out in full. Per all.
  7. Technetium (talk) Per all.
  8. Sparks (talk) Per all.

Oppose

Comments

@Camwoodstock Such a parameter can always be added to the template. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:18, December 18, 2024 (EST)

Salmancer: Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games might be the other worst game title I've had to type out. Mario It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:59, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Damn it, that was gonna be my example! Sprite of Yoshi's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Tails777 Talk to me!Sprite of Daisy's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate15:34, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games

Do not put templates underneath names of planets and areas 14-1
The aims of this proposal is to repeal this one that passed earlier this year. I will reiterate my position here:

The planetary bodies in galaxies do not just "lack" publicly accessible names - they are straight up not supposed to have names. The Shogakukan guidebook for Mario Galaxy does not give planets name. The game does not give planets name. The instruction booklet does not give planets name. The only "source" that applies discrete names for planets are from the developers and we have no reason to think these were intended to be the planets. These galaxy articles are generally a bit outdated, and I think the mistake in the first place was suggesting that some of the planets have real names "except where otherwise noted." They largely do not. I think it would would healthier to recognize that they are just different sections of a greater whole, much like areas in courses for the earlier 3D games, and apply titles accordingly.

To elaborate on my perspective, I think using dev data to provide names for these planets is completely fine, and I understand the desire to do so. Citing the Prima Games guidebooks for potential names for these areas is fine. That is not what this proposal is about. Rather, integrating the templates themselves - be it for conjectural or dev data-derived names - underneath the individual headers for each planet, in my view, looks very poor, as you can see here for Yoshi Star Galaxy and Honeyhive Galaxy. They are detractingly eye-catching and break these articles without substantive benefit. I think having a nonintrusive note at the top or bottom of these articles - as was the case before the proposal I link to above passed - is perfectly sufficient and healthier for these articles.

I provide two options:

  1. Support: Do not put conjectural and dev-data name templates beneath the names of individual planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games: This is a full repeal of the proposal I link to above.
  2. Oppose: Change nothing

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT Closed early on December 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: Do not put templates underneath the name's of planets and areas

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. 1468z (talk) Per proposal.
  3. Waluigi Time (talk) The previous solution looked a lot nicer. I also agree with Nintendo101 that we should rethink how we approach planet names in general. They don't necessarily "need" names any more than specific portions of levels in other games do.
  4. Jdtendo (talk) I still don't agree with the "planets are not supposed to have names" argument, but I do agree that having templates beneath every section heading is excessive.
  5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Waluigi time. The overall assumption that the planets have names unless otherwise stated feels like the consequence of a decision made very, very early on into the wiki, that's just kind of gone unquestioned or unnoticed until very recently. This won't stop that particular case of WikiJank™ completely, but it's a step in the right direction.
  6. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  7. EvieMaybe (talk) if all the names are unofficial, then we only need to say it once. if there's an official name, we can just say "all names are unofficial unless specified" and specify in the one planet that has a name (is there any planets with names even???). having the template on each individual section is both ugly and inefficient
  8. Mario (talk) Yeah, the setup before this was satisfactory. Per Evie, but I also agree with Waluigi Time that we probably don't need to require naming these parts of the level either.
  9. Ray Trace (talk) I always thought assigning these objects meant to be part of the environment conjectural templates has always struck me as odd and I don't know why only Super Mario Galaxy gets singled out out of all games. We don't name the rooms the Mario Party minigames take place in.
  10. Tails777 (talk) I was sincerely confused when I saw the templates put back on the various galaxy articles and questioned "Why? It was better beforehand." Per all.
  11. Hooded Pitohui (talk) In the longer-term, WT and Nintendo101 bring up points which ought to be considered. In the shorter term, this would be a beneficial first step to de-cluttering these sections for better readability.
  12. Ninja Squid (talk) Per all.
  13. Technetium (talk) Per Nintendo101, Waluigi Time, and Porple's comment below.
  14. MCD (talk) Per N101, WT and Porple below. I also agree our attitude on what counts as "conjectural" when it comes to naming planets needs a rethink, i.e. it's not conjecture to call the planet the player starts on the "starting planet" because that's just a factual description. (Also, why does Starting Planet just redirect to a random galaxy? lol)

Oppose: Keep the templates

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) I'm opposing this proposal as currently slated to be implemented — as in, just removing Template:Conjecture and Template:Dev data from these sections and leaving it at that. These need to be marked, and I don't feel that an "unless otherwise noted" disclaimer is an elegant way to do that. However. There is a way of accomplishing this that I would be amenable to: replacing those templates with Template:Conjectural or a new dev data equivalent to it. This is the same way our glitch pages do it, for exactly the same reason you want to get rid of these templates on the galaxy pages. I think it makes perfect sense to use this convention here as well to solve this problem.

Comments on the planet template proposal

I agree that we don't need the repeated templates, and the whole naming situation of the planets is a bit odd. Rather than giving the planets capitalized "names" (e.g. "Starting Planet") and noting them as conjectural, they should just be described in sentence case, at which point it should be somewhat obvious that it's a description and not a "name". For example, section heading "Starting planet" and text "The starting planet has..." You could do a single {{conjecture|subsections=yes}} under the "Planets" heading if you really wanted to, but I think if we removed all the inappropriate capitalization then even that wouldn't be necessary. --Steve (talk) Get Firefox 20:11, December 19, 2024 (EST)

Broaden the scope of the {{rewrite}} template and its variations

Do not broaden scope 1-7
With the previous proposal having passed with being more specific as the most voted, I've come up with a proposal about the possibility to make the {{rewrite}}, {{rewrite-expand}}, and {{rewrite-remove}} templates more specific. As you can see, these templates are missing some smaller text. As such, I am just wondering if there is a possibility to have the smaller text added to the {{rewrite}}, {{rewrite-expand}}, and {{rewrite-remove}} templates.

First of all, the {{rewrite}} template currently reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten.

However, once the proposal passes, the {{rewrite}} template will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}}.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article.

And another thing—the {{rewrite-expand}} template currently reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information.

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-expand}} will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information.{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by filling in the missing details.

Lastly, the {{rewrite-remove}} currently reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have <u>{{{content|{{{1|content<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{2|???<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s): ???

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-remove}} will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have {{#if:{{{content|{{{1|}}}}}}|<u>{{{content|{{{1}}}}}}</u>|content}} '''removed'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s):{{{reason|{{{2}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by removing the unnecessary details.

That will be a perfect idea to make the {{rewrite}} template and its variations as more specific as the {{media missing}} and {{unreferenced}} templates. That way, we'll be able to add smaller text to the remaining notice templates in the future.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: December 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to December 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

  1. Altendo (talk) As far as I can tell, the proposal that was linked added parameters that allowed what was supposed to be referenced to be referenced. This one simply adds a subtitle to the bottom of each template. "Be more specific" does not mean saying general information and helpful links, but rather exactly what needs to be done; in terms of that, the existing templates not only all already have parameters, but filling them out is enforced. As Nightwicked Bowser said, "Be more specific - Similar to this proposal, what exactly needs references must be specified in the template when putting it in the article. A parameter for this will still need to be added." This only adds a subtitle and does not make this "more specific". As for the changes, this is actually harmful in some way, as the (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}}) tag will be added to the subtitle, rather than the main body, which could make it more confusing in my opinion. Feel free to update this and add in what "more specific" actually means, or just change this to "add subtitles" and change the location of (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}}) to the main body, but until then, my vote is staying here.
  2. Mario (talk) Best to keep things simple with these improvement templates.
  3. Technetium (talk) Per Mario.
  4. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  5. Power Flotzo (talk) Yeah, this just feels like change for the sake of change. Per everyone.
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Mario. We should try and keep these maintenance templates as simple as possible.
  7. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per all.

Comments

Here's how I would fix some things:

First of all, the {{rewrite}} template currently reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten.

However, once the proposal passes, the {{rewrite}} template will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}}.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten for the following reasons:
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article.

And another thing—the {{rewrite-expand}} template currently reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information.

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-expand}} will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten and expanded to include more information for the following reasons:
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by filling in the missing details.

Lastly, the {{rewrite-remove}} currently reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have <u>{{{content|{{{1|content<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{2|???<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s): ???

However, once this proposal passes, the {{rewrite-remove}} will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have {{#if:{{{content|{{{1|}}}}}}|<u>{{{content|{{{1}}}}}}</u>|content}} '''removed''' {{#if:{{{reason|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reasons:{{{reason|{{{2}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that this article be rewritten to have content removed for the following reason(s):
Please review the Manual of Style and good writing standards and help improve this article by removing the unnecessary details.

This should fix some things, and I also recommend you change the title or at least context of this proposal. If so, then I might change my vote. Altendo 19:58, December 9, 2024 (EST)

I fixed this problem for you. How does it look? GuntherBayBeee.jpgGuntherBayBeeeGravity Rush Kat.png 09:40, December 10, 2024 (EST)

Create a template to use names consistently

canceled by proposer
This proposal is aiming to create a template called Template:T (short for "term"). It's similar in concept (thought not necessarily design) to Zelda Wiki's Term template, but to a lesser extent. Allow me to explain why I think such a template would benefit the site.

Let's take Princess Peach as an example. She has been known as Princess Toadstool to anglophones in games before Super Mario 64. Some people editing here, especially newcomers, may not immediately know that the Naming policy outlines that this website uses names depending on the subject's name within the media or supplementary material. We do not replace all instances of a name with the current one. But there's one game before Super Mario 64 where "Toadstool" is actually named Peach, Yoshi's Safari, so it could seem like a bit of a jump to read about "Toadstool" and then "Peach" for one paragraph, and then back to "Toadstool" again.

Some of the games call her Princess, like Super Mario Kart, which makes it more confusing. The source of History of Princess Peach acknowledges this and even has a editor notice explaining that "Princess" is her name in Super Mario Kart:

Princess<!--This is what the game titles her, so don't change it.--> is a playable character in ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. When controlled by the CPU, Princess can use [[Poison Mushroom]]s to shrink the other drivers.

So how the term template would work is that it would insert one of the subject's common names: we'll use Peach in this example, followed by the game abbreviation to replace instances of "Princess" within the article. Basically, Template:T working in conjunction with Template:A. So with that, we'd add {{t|Peach|SMK}} in place of "Princess":

{{t|Peach|SMK}} is a playable character in ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. When controlled by the CPU, {{t|Peach|SMK}} can use [[Poison Mushroom]]s to shrink the other drivers.

With how big the Super Mario franchise is, it can be difficult ensure accuracy with subject names all over the wiki. And it could arguably get more confusing with capitalized or lowercase names, like Super Mushroom is titled in The Super Mario Bros. Movie as red mushroom, in lowercase. It specifies that on the article, but if the name is used elsewhere, it may not be as obvious, so naming consistency can be even harder if we don't have an immediate reference of what "red mushroom" is (or how it's spelled) if we're to mention it on the Training Course article.

Subjects are renamed over time, like Banzai Bills used to be Bomber Bills, and newer or alternate names can be added to Template:T (or a list sub-template) over time. However, the template should be used within reason, so for example, we wouldn't add "Mario" to Template:T for most of his appearances because that's obviously his name used in those appearances. Meanwhile, subjects with naming discrepancies between appearances (e.g. Star, Starman, and Super Star) could allow for more flexibility on which name is input in Template:T, before the abbreviation. That would include Peach in Yoshi's Safari, so either {{t|Peach|YSafari}} (YSafari is stored as an abbreviation already) or {{t|Toadstool|YSafari}} would be acceptable. For Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, both {{t|Bowser|TSMBSS}} and {{t|King Koopa|TSMBSS}} would be acceptable to use.

It's difficult to know the fine line, and some further decisions or clarifications may have to be done along the way if this proposal passes. But ultimately, I think this will help editors along the way for subjects with naming discrepancies and not having to open tabs to refer to the article name to find the name used for that appearance.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.

Oppose

  1. Camwoodstock (talk) Personally, we feel like this is made widely redundant by just... double-checking the names before writing them down. If a rookie editor messes up and calls Princess Peach "Princess Peach" in the article for a game where she was called Princess Toadstool, it's fairly easy to fix that. In addition, we fear this might cause an even more obnoxious issue of rookie editors instead leaving these templates in the article body, making editing the pages annoying until someone else manually replaces the term. We don't really see what the use is for a template that, by and large, is only really useful for the preview function, when at the end of the day, you could just refer to a game's article and quickly determine from there what name to use.
  2. Hewer (talk) I don't feel like this would be particularly helpful to new users, if anything unnecessary templates like this could cause more confusion and feel unintuitive. This doesn't feel like solving the problem of having to remember which name to use so much as swapping it for a problem of having to remember how to use the template.
  3. Ahemtoday (talk) Per Hewer — not to mention a problem of remembering which subjects have data in the template to begin with. All those further decisions and clarifications are going to have to be looked up anyway, defeating the point. And that's if the system is working as intended — to be blunt, the scope of these templates would have to be so large that I expect them to be poorly maintained.

Comments

@Camwoodstock I understand, but I do think it's convenient like when adding abbreviations. Is it "Klaptrap" or "KlapTrap" or "Klap Trap"? The template can be used to figure that part out and help with consistency, and if one sees the consistent output, they can fix the names used in Template:T accordingly. It won't be that hard to use, it may just take time getting used to, and it won't apply to the obvious like Mario in most of his appearances. I didn't say it'd be enforced, just like how Template:A isn't enforced (i.e. it's there for people who want to use it while editing, though I know someone who prefers not to use it, as a choice of personal preference). Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:26, December 30, 2024 (EST)

Decide how to handle nameless subjects

canceled by proposer
It's been five days since the last proposal had passed, and I never opposed it. Something tells me that the areas in galaxies from the Super Mario Galaxy games are nameless, with the titles of subsections being informal descriptors unless otherwise noted. Likewise, take Fréquence Kong for example; this skit aired in France and not in any other regions. I humbly suggest that there's a possibility to decide how to handle nameless subjects with three options:

Option 1
Create the {{informal descriptor}} and {{descriptor}} templates.
Option 2
Repurpose the {{conjecture}}, {{another language}}, {{dev data}}, and {{derivation}} templates.
Option 3
Do nothing

Here's what happens when option 1 passes.

First off, the {{informal descriptor}} template. This template will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptors]]''''' unless otherwise noted|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is an '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptor]]'''''}}. {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|Each|The}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>

The title of this article is an informal descriptor. The article's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

Using {{informal descriptor|section=yes}} will result in the following:

The title of this section is an informal descriptor. The section's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

Using {{informal descriptor|subsections=yes}} will result in the following:

The titles of the following subsections are informal descriptors unless otherwise noted. Each section's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

Next off, the {{descriptor}} template. This template will read as follows: 

{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{hover|1={{{1}}}|2={{#if:{{{2|}}}|Informal descriptor for {{{2}}}|This name is an informal descriptor.}}}}|<sup style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal">[[[MarioWiki:Naming|''informal descriptor'']]]</sup>}}

[informal descriptor]

Using {{descriptor|Starting planet}} will result in this:

Starting planet

Using {{descriptor|Starting planet|the planet}} will result in this:

Starting planet

Now we move onto what happens if option 2 passes. The source of the {{conjecture}} template will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}{{#if:{{{part|}}}|<nowiki/> for '''a part''' of its content|<nowiki/>; {{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|each|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject is nameless|an official name for {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|each|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject has not been found}}, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] name is found{{#if:{{{part|}}}|<nowiki/> for the currently unnamed portion of content}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{part|}}}|it may need to be split into a new article|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title}}.
</div>

For example, using the informal_descriptor parameter on the {{conjecture}} template will result in this:

The title of this article is conjectural, but it is also an informal descriptor; the article's subject is nameless, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors.

The source for the {{another language}} template will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} official, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they come|it comes}} from a{{#rmatch:{{{1}}}|^[AEIOU]|n}} '''{{{1|non-English}}} source'''{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, although {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] English name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>

For example, typing {{another language|French|informal_descriptor=yes}} will result in this:

The title of this article is official, but it comes from a French source, although it is also an informal descriptor.

The source of the {{dev data}} will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} from an official source, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} based on {{#if:{{{1|}}}|'''{{{1}}}'''|'''development data''' such as an internal filename}}{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, although {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] public name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>

For example, using the informal_descriptor parameter on the {{dev data}} template will result in this:

The title of this article is from an official source, but it is based on development data such as an internal filename, although it is also an informal descriptor.

The source of the {{derivation}} template will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} {{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}|<u>unofficial</u>}} and {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|have|has}} been '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming#Derived names|derived]]''''' by {{{1|combining English names based on established naming schemes, non-English names, and/or development data}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an official English name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}} that differs from the current name, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>

For example, using the informal_descriptor parameter on the {{derivation}} template will result in this:

The title of this article is an informal descriptor and has been derived by combining English names based on established naming schemes, non-English names, and/or development data.

It's important to know that informal descriptors are what we know, and it's true that we will decide how to handle them once this proposal passes.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: January 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Create the templates

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My primary choice

Option 2: Repurpose the title notices

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My secondary choice

Option 3: Do nothing

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) Having a special name and template for informal descriptors is counterproductive because it makes them look more like names, not less. If we're going with the idea that the planets do not have proper names and we are simply describing them, that has to be accomplished through the way we write the articles and not through notice boxes. I bring up the planets specifically because I... don't really think there's any other situation on this wiki where this has ever been an issue. The only other example you bring up is Frequence Kong, and I do not see how that is an informal descriptor when it is just the French title.
  2. Arend (talk) Honestly, this whole proposal is a bit confusing. First, do we really need to introduce the term "informal descriptor"? Aren't conjectural article titles already informal descriptors? "Informal" means "unofficial", after all, while "conjectural" means "speculative", which already practically means it's unofficial. If so, why do we need this, and if not, what IS an "informal descriptor", then? Second, regardless of choosing Option 1 or 2, if this is basically a way to put a notice template under the Galaxy planet names, isn't this basically a repeal of a repeal but using a different term that may or may not mean the same thing as "conjectural"? Third, the proposed wording for the affected templates for Option 2 sound a bit odd: "The title of this article is conjectural, but it is also an informal descriptor" is weird because, as I already stated, a conjectural title may already be an informal descriptor, because of the "informal" = "unofficial" = "speculative" = "conjectural" thing I stated earlier; "The title of this article is official, but it comes from a French source, although it is also an informal descriptor" could potentially be oxymoronic because nearly all titles with the {{another language}} template already use the official title untranslated, therefor being impossible to be informal a.k.a. unofficial, and when they are unofficially translated, they may be more fit to use {{derivation}} anyway; and "The title of this article is from an official source, but it is based on development data such as an internal filename, although it is also an informal descriptor" is either oxymoronic or synonymous depending on if the title is literally taken from an official filename, or derived from one. Either way, the inclusion of these templates already implies an informal English descriptor so it's really confusing why words like "but" or "although" are chosen when "and" or "therefore" may fit better. Fourth, why is Option B to repurpose the {{conjecture}}, {{another language}}, {{dev data}}, and {{derivation}} templates, when all that's being changed is that an option is being added that clarifies that the article titles are "informal descriptors"? "Repurpose" means that the templates are to be adapted for an entirely different purpose, yet from what I can tell, all these templates retain their original purpose if Option 2 wins. All in all (tl;dr), I honestly don't think these changes are needed since "informal" already means "unofficial" which we have plenty of templates for, and that this proposal is a bit confusing.
  3. Hewer (talk) There's no such thing as "nameless" article subjects, they're either officially named or conjecturally named. (The planets from Galaxy are different as they aren't article subjects - one of the points from that passed proposal was that they are just parts of a level, not really individual subjects in their own right.) I have no idea what the distinction is between "conjectural" and "informal descriptor", the proposal doesn't really explain (in fact, it implies that even official names can be "informal descriptors", whatever that means, if they're from another language, even though that's Template:Another language's job). This is a pointless template for a pointless distinction. There's also the fact that this proposal seems to be another attempt to stuff the galaxy articles with redundant notice templates, which was just repealed for a reason.
  4. Nintendo101 (talk) I think this idea is technocratic. Not every "type" of moniker benefits from having a template. As stated by others, informal descriptors are not names. While assume this is incidental, this proposal sort of undermines the point of that Super Mario Galaxy proposal that passed recently: the issue wasn't the type of templates. The issue was that the templates were unattractive and detracted from those articles without substantive benefit. Simply replacing those templates with new one simply recreates the problem.
  5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Nintendo101; the issue with the Galaxy articles wasn't just the templates being a misnomer, it was the fact that they were being used under pretenses that probably weren't accurate in the first place (namely, the idea that the majority of planets have official names, which does not seem to be the case) and were, for lack of a better term, an incredibly intrusive eyesore. The best way to resolve that would likely involve a policy shift, not re-introducing a different form of those same templates.

Comments (informal descriptor / descriptor)

As the guy behind the derived names proposal, I would like to note that derived names by design cannot be informal. They are gathered by comparing proper names from the source language or source code, if you will against related proper names in English. This has been relevant for the Kyodai na Hoppin, whose official Japanese name is informal, translating roughly to "Hoppycat that is giant", and has been left in Japanese as a result.--PopitTart (talk) 16:10, December 30, 2024 (EST)

@GuntherBayBeee Forgive me if this is off-topic, but I've noticed that a lot of your proposals are about either introducing new (notice) templates to replace old ones (even when it's not needed), or changing old (notice) templates to include new features (even if they work fine without those) or to change its purpose (again, even if they already work fine the way they are): Is there a reason why you want to change the wiki's structure of its (notice) templates so much? Is it to mimic Wikipedia's style more, is it to distance ourselves from Wikipedia or other Wikis, is it something else? Because to me, several of your (notice) template proposals seem unnecessary; no offense. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 16:13, December 30, 2024 (EST)

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