User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick/Archive 4

Doc von Schmeltwick's talk page archives
Episode I: The Phantom Mole-nace (1-160) (July 2017-January 2018) The story of how a decade-long lurker finally joined for the sole reason of fixing a glaring mistake on Bald Cleft's page. And then they yell about classification on mole-ish creatures on a few occasions.
Episode II: Attacky of the Sackies (161-320) (January 2018-October 2018) Attacky Sacks appear and eat the universe, then I inadvertently help "Bowsette" propagate. Oops.
Episode III: Revenge of the Fish (321-480) (November 2018-November 2019) Is Boss Bass the same as Cheep Chomp or Big Cheep Cheep and/or big Blurp?
Episode IV: A New Dope (481-640) (November 2019-November 2023) Various projects (and splits & merges) while I finish my graduate degree.

Re:Boo Buddy Swarm

The same thing happened on page 24: "CLIMBING KOOPAS Hit the climbing Koopas on the same side of the fence from above, or press the B Button to knock down ones on the opposite side." That one is also a proposed move because "Climbing Koopa" is technically not used as the name of the subject and is used as a description. A similar thing happened with "Kamikaze Koopa", which has an all-caps header on page 92 but is only named descriptively everywhere else, including one instance of "flashing kamikaze Koopa shell" on page 36. In general, I feel we should maybe take a step back from relying on stuff like section headers and level titles unless we have to since there seems to be a thin line on whether things were intended as actual names or just descriptors. That said, I don't see an instance of "Boo Buddy swarm" in the source unlike those examples, but right before it on the same page, under "SHOO, BIG BOO!", it states: "Lining the cold, darking corridors on the Forest Ghost House are Boo Buddies, Big Boos and Eeries." The swarm isn't mentioned at all and is implicitly lumped together with Boo Buddies. Also note that none of the Boo derivatives in Super Mario World except Big Boo have their own Japanese name, which could liken them to the Chargin' Chuck types or (if merged) Lakitu in a Pipe. LinkTheLefty (talk) 05:59, November 29, 2019 (EST)

Re:directs

I just hope no one gets too upset that I skipped Kintobor. Nevermind, my thoughts exactly. Besides, I think it's been confirmed that the franchise operates on multiple universe logic (or at least, I'm aware that the western comic writers interpreted it that way), so one can argue that the alternate media characterizations of Eggman are all different characters in a similar vein to Eggman Nega. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:20, December 8, 2019 (EST)

You may be surprised to know that we were actually pretty close to remerging live-action film content back into the main articles, but then I noticed and presented overlooked information at the eleventh hour that halted that proposal. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:59, December 8, 2019 (EST)

Good question. I see that "Fungus Unit" is currently redlinked but they're apparently separate from the film's Snifits. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:37, December 9, 2019 (EST)

Right, the same sentence mentions both the garbagemen and Fungus Unit being based on Snifits and Shy Guys, but I only seem to recall one of them leaving an impression. The novelization apparently does call the former Snifits. LinkTheLefty (talk) 01:45, December 9, 2019 (EST)

The way I view it is that "Sniff-it" comes from a leaked, in-progress work, whereas "Snifit" comes from a released, finished product, so priority would technically go to the latter if it has its own article. For the police force / Fungus Unit, I'd have to rewatch the movie to tell you. LinkTheLefty (talk) 02:06, December 9, 2019 (EST)

Wanna be friends?

I think we could be friends. FireyYoshi (talk) 18:46, December 9, 2019 (EST)FireyYoshi

Well that's rather sudden...I see no reason not to, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:07, December 9, 2019 (EST)

Do you have a userbox? FireyYoshi (talk) 19:43, December 9, 2019 (EST)FireyYoshi

No, sorry XD Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:48, December 9, 2019 (EST)

Re:Kyodai

Well, basically all the Super Mario Bros. 3 revision world names are direct translations of the manual names (with the exception of Water Land), and it uses Giant Land there. I say leave it be for accuracy's sake since dai and deka are much closer than kyodai. Not sure if biggu was always reserved for Yoshi bosses since there are exceptions like Big Lantern Ghost, but given Big Heihō was seemingly renamed Mega Heihō, that's probably the case now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:10, December 10, 2019 (EST)

I imagine the Blarggs just have seniority from before Yoshi's Island continued as a series, but we already do note the possible Big Cheep Cheep connection in the Boss Bass page (though keep in mind, Nintendo of Japan wasn't the only developer of NES Remix 2, which could explain why the internal filenames are a little all over the place). LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:06, December 10, 2019 (EST)

At this point, I'm just crossing my fingers for a Super Mario Maker 2 update to hopefully settle things in the near future. I do think that the Big Chain Chomp from Super Princess Peach is a Chomp Shark, if only for the very simple reason that its order in the game glossary suggests a returning enemy instead of a new one (i.e. it's not used to segue into Walruss and Starfish). Here's one way to look at it if it makes a merge easier: since we're apparently intent on keeping Chain Chomp and Chomp split, we can just take the big Chomp Shark as a large version of the unchained Chomp, while the deka Chain Chomp is a large version of Chain Chomp. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:11, December 11, 2019 (EST)

Re:Model aboutfile box

I understand. From now on, I'll try to credit the original uploader of each model render. --MarioKartDoubleDash (talk) 22:18, December 10, 2019 (EST)

Re:Screenshots

I thought it was fine putting images of ROMhacks because it has the respective enemy in the image. The image of the big goomba has a big goomba, just like the hefty goomba and the goomba one, so I thought it was all fine, but I guess I was wrong. Thanks for the advice, but I still don't know why it is forbidden. --Rodmjorgeh (talk) 14:59, December 15, 2019 (EST)

By the way, can I put images of the Enemy Course? That's vanilla NSMBW. --Rodmjorgeh (talk) 15:04, December 15, 2019 (EST)

Re:"Fan-made"

I was referring to the fact that it said "official artwork" as if the wiki ever uses unofficial artwork. People can already tell that it's official, otherwise it wouldn't be on the wiki. Kind of like the "official profiles" description. Scrooge200 (talk) 16:27, December 25, 2019 (EST)

Re:Crows, flames, and piscatory punks

Fire and Kuro have more similarities since they were both identified as Fireball and Nitpicker, respectively, with the exception of Japanese Game Boy Donkey Kong material which gave those subtypes their own names. They're not like the color variants of barrels or Snapjaws because they've always had distinct designs. I think that, whether Fireball (Donkey Kong) becomes an article separate from Fire or not, Kuro should have the same treatment - I don't believe it should be left alone since it seems fairly obvious that Kuro is supposed to be the same raven-like version of the enemy. If it remains split, I'd say let's just use the unique current name via priority exception, with the exception of Donkey Kong Jr.-specific content. If it merges, then I think we should reconsider our stance on Spark - I know we've already done that, but if Fire and Kuro are merged with Fireball and Nitpicker, then it stands to reason that all of the enemies and elements from the arcade games reappeared in remixed form in the Game Boy game, which should include Spark (though Spark originally had two different designs as well, so I wonder if "Globe" should also be considered for a split). Piscatory Pete is a separate issue I think, but as I say, I believe resolving it would be best done with another proposal; it's just odd that Piscatory Pete has a separate entry from the Cheep Cheep in every guide it appears in, so the situation could be more akin to Boo and Big Boo being labeled with parenthesis identifiers. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:29, December 29, 2019 (EST)

Spark's one of the few Mario enemies not to receive their own figure in the Link's Awakening remake, but neither do Podoboos and Thwomps. It's probably supposed to be the Mario enemy given the game's Super Mario Bros. 2 references. Though for what it's worth, Zelda Encyclopedia doesn't call it a guest character from the Super Mario Bros. series, unlike the other Mario species. At least, going by the English version. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:22, December 30, 2019 (EST)

DKP

Which source did you use for this info? Also, speculation should not be done, unless there is concrete evidence on Cranky replacing Redneck. Doomhiker (talk) 17:00, January 28, 2020 (EST)

I literally played the leaked ROM dump available on TCRF. I didn't say he "replaced" him, it's just that, considering both the debug and character select screen lead to two Crankys, one of which is on the world select represented by garbled data, that's a fairly solid conclusion. Most likely, it defaults to Cranky to avoid a runtime error caused from a lack of Crappy Kong's data. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:19, January 28, 2020 (EST)

Bad Hair Day

While I agree with you that it doesn't really need a reference to show that the texture was simply removed, your claim of "I think I'm established here enough" isn't really a valid reason for putting something back. Even admins make mistaken edits sometimes, doesn't matter your reputation. Not saying you aren't a good editor and don't have experience with models (I know you do, I see you on Resource sometimes), that's not really something you should add to summaries. It really doesn't mean anything. 17:49, January 28, 2020 (EST)

I didn't want it to come off as delayed edit warring is all. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:16, January 28, 2020 (EST)

Something fishy (and a favor)

Remember how Japanese Wikipedia can be overly stringent when it comes to recognizing name changes, like with having multiple entries for a big enemy? I found that the Wikipedia page for Pukupuku is a notable outlier in this regard as it incudes a mention of red and blue varieties from Yoshi's Story under "巨大プクプク(Boss Bass)" instead of giving them separate entries like you might expect. I wonder if this is worth pursuing further? I have the Shogakukan and TJ Mook guides (which I'm still not sure is official) and I don't notice any explicit reference to the Blurps as 「巨大プクプク」 but maybe there is something else out there that does directly refer to them as such. That aside, there's something I want to ask of you: can you take care of my proposal outcomes for me? I'd normally do it myself, but my computer recently failed on me and I won't be able to repair or replace it right away (which is too bad since I also wanted to write up a Marin article for Triforce Wiki next week but I don't think I'll have it up on time). Resorting to mobile editing is too inconvenient for me with all these changes. If you'd rather not, that's fine, I don't mean to be thrusting it upon you and I'm sure it'd be okay if they sat on the list of unimplemented proposals for a little while. If you do, you should be able to throw in the bird toy split in there without problems since there was no opposition and it was just short of one official vote (Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis object graphics filename is data/data/anims/DK2_bird_anim.bin so it can be named "Bird (toy)"). LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:45, February 5, 2020 (EST)

I'm a tad busy with school, but I'll see what I can do. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:08, February 5, 2020 (EST)

I may be able to get around to it this weekend, so no worries, but I do have questions about the proposed titles: why exactly should Fire have an identifier when it's the only subject with that name, and now that I think of it, should Kuro instead have been "Bird (Nitpicker)" or something to that effect considering that they're called "Birds" in at least one manual? LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:58, March 5, 2020 (EST)

Because "Fire" is still a valid old name for the Fireball, and is such a generic term one could be searching for projectile fireballs or Bowser's fire attack or even the Game & Watch game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:13, March 5, 2020 (EST)

I suppose, but just a minor nitpick - if the "75 m" stage in Smash is any indication, "100m" from the Game Boy game should probably be "100 m" from the arcade game. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:25, March 5, 2020 (EST)

RE:Autograph

I already discussed this with TheFlameChomp, and he said to keep the Autographs from Paper Mario in one article while splitting off the rest. If you want to create a proposal on the matter, that's fine with me, but I won't be likely to support it; you may disagree with the changes, but I have yet to see another user who agrees with your stance. Also, I don't think Super Mushroom is a strong-enough comparison to use here, given that it's a case of consumable items vs. key items. ^(T|C) 15:41, February 9, 2020 (EST)

Sorry paisano but I'm with Doc. You need to seriously relax on the splitting. Stuff like the orbs or card keys did not need to be split at all. Trig - 16:02, February 9, 2020 (EST)

@Trig: Were you actually reading Doc's arguments? They were specifically mystified over my splitting of Autograph, and haven't brought up other concerns (yet).

@Doc: I mean, I'm fine with switching to creating proposals for the time being, but keep in mind that this proposal alone is the precedent for said splits, and so you will very likely need to create proposals to override my changes. ^(T|C) 23:30, February 9, 2020 (EST)

Again, TheFlameChomp, an admin, approved of my changes to the page. I don't really have anything else to say, so at this point a counterproposal is the only way to go. ^(T|C) 09:49, February 10, 2020 (EST)

RE:Tap-Tap guy

Was doing it as you messaged me. Anyways, the reason why I talked to the ip on their talk page first was because when I added my comment they only made a small amount of edits, and due to them only doing minor acts of vandalism (one of which looking like a possible new user mistake) I decided that blocking them so early wasn't needed. Then they ignored my message and continued to vandalize, thus warranting the block. Doomhiker (talk) 16:22, February 20, 2020 (EST)

Still, thanks for the advice and undoing his latter edits. Doomhiker (talk) 16:23, February 20, 2020 (EST)

Re:bigness

I see where you're coming from, but I think it's overall much safer to consider them big variants for sure when they have smaller versions to compare them in the same game (or when they're directly named as such, like Mega Dry Bones appearing without regular-sized Dry Bones in Mario Party: Star Rush), especially considering that size has always been kind of relative (recall Goomba). On a related note, I realize after the fact that it wasn't smart to include Mega Guy in the Big Lantern Ghost proposal, since I overlooked the fact that big Shy Guys appear elsewhere and now they don't have a solid, single article to cover all of them in one place. I only noticed this after checking out the Black Shy Guy article. The lesson I suppose is not to include proposal options that you may regret later, so I plan on making a counterproposal at some point. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:58, March 5, 2020 (EST)

Pushback?

I think I warned before that this might happen someday, but I'm noticing some general pushback as of late to taking other languages into account in proposals. I don't believe there's too much cause for alarm just yet, but as someone who remembers what this wiki looked like in the mid-2000's, I seriously don't think many of these newer users know what they're actually asking for when they repeat opinionated nonarguments and empty rhetoric like "This is an English wiki", "I don't want to hear anything about the Japanese name", "Your proposals are going too far", "These merges make me wanna do the splits" etc., nevermind that such changes in this wiki have always individually had the original language of the main developers in mind, as they tend to have more control over their intentions, and so the tables are usually reversed on the occasion that products come from English or American creators. What's a good way to remind people that excluding the intent of foreign developers in favor of a localized dichotomy is counterproductive? I'm almost considering compiling a list of inconsistent translations over the years (e.g. Podoboo/Lava Bubble/Sparky/Spark Spook, Micro Goomba/Goombette/Mini Goomba, Boo/Big Boo, among a veritable ocean of other examples) to demonstrate the sheer ridiculousness of that direction, but since such a thing would be a rather long and thankless project, I'd rather make something like that if the situation only actively goes down a really bad rabbit hole. It's something that at least has my attention. Thoughts? LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:35, March 5, 2020 (EST)

I always go with Cheep Cheep/Cheep-Cheep/Cheepcheep/Flopsy Fish/Goby/Bub/Bubba/Blurp, myself. I discovered this wiki myself around early 2009, so I remember a lot of those oddities. The fish thing is still not completely sorted out from that time period. And of course, the ever-popular Goomba/Galoomba thing. There was also the time SML Piranha Plant was split from other Piranha Plant. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:16, March 5, 2020 (EST)

may it be noted that i don't like when people talk about me behind my back, as it's quite clear that this was referring to me, trig, and waluigi time. it even quoted us. TheDarkStar 23:32, March 5, 2020 (EST)

"Behind your back?" This is public. Hence how you found it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)

I'm still somewhat embarrassed that some of the Boss Bass / Bubba / Cheep Chomp debacle directly ended up in Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia... Also, when one spends valuable time addressing a topic at an individual, case-by-case basis, only for it to be dismissed with more (paraphrased) generalizations, you can understand how it may be a little upsetting. Better to vent than to invoke #5. Besides, I'm not a fan of how such talks happen on Discord. LinkTheLefty (talk) 02:22, March 6, 2020 (EST)

OK, I seem to have hit a breakthrough on this. Some people seem to think that Mariowiki:Naming's priority rules apply to splitting and merging when (as the maintenance article clearly states) it is only intended for finding the right article title. Not gonna say any names, but that's the gist. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:51, March 7, 2020 (EST)

Re: London to Stonehenge

It isn't just Sonic who was getting there though- Tails, Mario, Luigi, Toad and Omega were with him, and I doubt that they all would have been able to get there as fast too. It's just something in the mode that I thought was particularly weird, it's the only place outside of London that they visit but it's not very close to London. BBQ Turtle (talk) 03:37, March 8, 2020 (EDT)

Bubble Pop

Have you played Yoshi's Story? The Bubble Pop page says the player can pop one if they touch it six times, but when I tried to pop a Bubble Pop without using any eggs, it took more than six touches to pop it. I'd like to correct that content, but I don't know exactly how many times a Bubble Pop needs to be touched to pop it. Can you please help me? Dwhitney (talk) 16:18, March 12, 2020 (EDT)

OK, I just tried, and it's actually more like 25 times. It might vary, actually. I may have lost a count or too due to a Fuzzy Wiggler getting in the way. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:23, March 12, 2020 (EDT)

OK, yeah, I think it varies, I've so far also gotten as low as seemingly 15 and as high as 30. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:29, March 12, 2020 (EDT)

Thanks for the info. I corrected the content. Dwhitney (talk) 16:58, March 12, 2020 (EDT)

Re:About Pink Fuzzy...

Fair question. We have no way of knowing what the developers of the original Paper Mario designated Pokey Mummy (or Jungle Fuzzy) without looking at source code, but I'll say that Poison Pokey is known as c_sanbo_m in The Thousand-Year Door and e_sanbo_m in Super Paper Mario. While this could mean Pokey Mummy, m could also stand for midori, the Japanese word for green. Green enemies/characters are inconsistently labeled m or g, and color shorthand is common throughout. I personally don't think it stands for Pokey Mummy since as I mentioned in the proposal, the developers seemed intent on possibly repurposing Gold Fuzzy as a "Yellow Fuzzy" since they renamed those files, and Poison Pokey's filenames were still kept as late as Super Paper Mario. Poison Pokey also has a different shade, looking more greenish than the bluish Pokey Mummy. So similar entities, but different situation I'd say: Poison Pokey doesn't have the mummified gimmick, which isn't a decision based on any gameplay change or the enemy's interpretation overall (Pink Fuzzy, without FP or the Fuzzies' former absorption, can't be called "Flower" anymore). LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:50, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

Yep, in The Thousand-Year Door, "Killer Packun" (the one with the game identifier) is c_pakflwr while Frost Piranha is c_pakflwr_a, Putrid Piranha is c_pakflwr_p and Pale Piranha is c_pakflwr_t; in Super Paper Mario, regular Piranha Plant is e_pakflwr, Frost Piranha is e_pakflwr_i, and Poison Piranha is e_pakflwr_p. So it does seem like the English version is actually closer to the developers' designation (it may have been a relatively late decision to make the Boggly Woods enemies the monochrome versions, explaining why the stronger and weaker versions of Piranha Plant and [Moon] Cleft were named around), except the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate guidance still mentions Killer Packun and not Pale Piranha (though that may have been a consequence of probable online borrowing). LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:17, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

Wizzerd is another case where the English localization got it mostly right: base Wizzerd is c_maho, Dark Wizzerd is c_maho_b, and Elite Wizzerd is c_maho_w. The Thousand-Year Door's boss and Bowser Bloopers seem to share some of the same resources, just rescaled in-game (it's c_geso_kn for the normal design, but c_gesso, c_gesso2, c_gesso3, c_gesso4 for boss-specific assets). On that note, I notice that the Big Blooper from Super Paper Mario apparently reuses the same eye textures as the boss from the previous game, just upscaled. Bloopers in Super Paper Mario are also strange now that I take another look - e_big_gesso and e_geso refer to the boss and tentacles, but the enemy seems to be TEST_gesso- and - something else that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere - there are graphics for a small/Baby Blooper under TEST_s_gesso- (looks based on the version from the original Paper Mario but different shading). Were there any Blooper Babies in Super Paper Mario? If not, I'll upload it for the pre-release and unused content article since the texture is simple enough (a lot of the others I've found are in pieces and need to be assembled in-engine, and I'm not sure of a good way at the moment to represent that without kind of guessing how they're meant to fit together in-game). Judging from this, the Blooper enemy was probably used to debug the underwater sections, but the developers decided to keep it around. Anyway, in light of all this, I'm pondering if the white Cleft should be split from the main Cleft article, since it's likely in the same boat as the Piranha Plant. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:15, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

It would have been rather easy to leave things alone if the writer only replaced "Killer Packun" with "Pale Piranha", but now the current splits seem too selective. I do think that the developers swapped the colors around for aesthetic reasons, though I wonder why they didn't just consider the usual-colored versions of Piranha Plant and Cleft to be the "main" versions when the game also introduced Dull Bones (c_karon_g/e_karon_g), which are weaker than Dry Bones. It would probably be a good idea to have a Frost/Ice Piranha proposal while we're at it. By the way, do Bob-ombs and Bandits appear in any scenes in Super Paper Mario? They have assets in it, and there's probably more. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:09, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

Yes, Ruff Puff is another example where the filenames line up with the final, though another thing that I noticed is that Ruff Puff variants have leftovers in Super Paper Mario as well. What's odd about this one is that it seems that the textures for Ice Puff (c_kmoon_b-), Poison Puff (c_kmoon_g-), and Dark Puff (c_kmoon_wb-) were all put in one place (e_kmoon_b-, Ice Puff?), while e_kmoon_g (Poison Puff?) and e_kmoon_w (Dark Puff?) have model data but no similarly-named textures (in both games, texture filenames are denoted by hyphens). Not sure what exactly was going on there. Side note, I'm amused that the developers used "c_kinopiko" and the like to refer to generic female Toad NPCs, though I can't seem to find Toadette at the moment because of it. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:50, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

I'll have to remember to check if the filename for Fresh Juice can be of any help later, I might not have copied it for myself. TCRF has obscure Glitzville graphics where it's plainly written as "FRESH JUICE" though (but I don't recall it being sold in that location, so maybe it's a development remnant...or a joke about false advertising). If you were curious since the other monochrome enemies were brought up, Pider (c_paid) is the base of Arantula (c_paid_b). However, the Cleft situation is stranger than initially thought: as seen here, Moon Cleft is referred to as an ordinary Cleft in the Japanese version of Super Paper Mario. What's more, according to Catch Card order, Bald Cleft is considered the basic version of [Moon] Cleft, which is also true in The Thousand-Year Door's Tattle Log. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:48, March 14, 2020 (EDT)

I guess it wouldn't be too surprising to see something like this slip through the cracks since Super Paper Mario was the first game in the Paper Mario series to beat the Japanese version to release (the Mario & Luigi series did beforehand, but those games' North American releases are technically the earlier revisions and were likely localized from an early version of the Japanese text as well, whereas I think Super Paper Mario was the first text-heavy RPG to have extremely close initial builds across regions). Regarding proposal, I'd toss in another option as well: split both Moon Clefts, or (perhaps more applicable) split The Thousand-Year Door Cleft and Moon Cleft while merging original Cleft with Super Paper Mario Moon Cleft. This would basically be similar rationale to having both Pale Piranha and "Killer Packun" split and neither being merged to the main Piranha Plant article. Not my first choice, but it'd be better than inaction. I'd also maybe consider limiting options that basically do the same thing but change which article title to go with (i.e. the first and second proposed options) - we've had times in the past where such proposal options prove to be a bit too overwhelming, so I'd just go with recent naming policy in all cases in the interest of keeping things more simple and straightforward, though that discussion can possibly follow afterwards if the Paper Mario / Super Paper Mario merge option is chosen. [Addendum: Okay, there is a line in Super Paper Mario that refers to Flint Cragley having starred in "Dark Screams! Into Maw of Howling Cleft Colony of Terror!", and it must be referring to the Moon Clefts that appear in the same chapter so maybe it's not so simple to say that Clefts are called Moon Clefts now.] Anyway, Niiue mentioned looking into the Clefts in other languages, which may influence the proposal's result, so it may be best to have that information ready first; otherwise, we may have a repeat of Flower/Pink Fuzzy, where not all details were known before ending. On a semi-related note, do you have anything to add to this discussion (which, in retrospect, I may be overthinking)? LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:06, March 16, 2020 (EDT)

That's also my impression. I was wondering why the final English version seemed confused, with it referring to them as the "famous Piranha Plants" one second and then a "colorless subspecies" the next (though in all fairness, "subspecies" might not have been intended as the same implementation formerly used by the wiki). The fact that every localization considers it a Piranha Plant that adapted to its environment, even the English version were it not for the name, reminds me a lot of the Para-Beetle/Parabuzzy situation. It aligns with Tattle Log order as well. I think that's enough information to rethink the split independent of the Moon Cleft situation. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:35, March 18, 2020 (EDT)

Black Shell...?

I guess I could agree with the Super Mario World Trivia, even though black colors are very inconsistent in the Mario games especially with the Black Coins since they tend of to get different tints of shade and colors. But the Paper Mario Black Shell for the Koopa Bro, I have to disagree with, the Mario shells have never had a very consistent behavior. Gold Shells explode in Mario kart Arcade GP DX but none of the other games do that, Red Shells don't even on players in the main games other than Super Mario Galaxy, Blue Shells either freeze you in the Mario Strikers series, give you the shell form in New Super Mario Bros and Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and it's 3DS remake, etc. It's still a Black Shell it doesn't have the same exact item to be mentioned on the article, it's like making a Red Shell (Mario Kart series) have a separate article just because it only homes while the other games don't. --Gamermakerguy (talk) 22:53, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

That's not comparable because it's not necessarily about what effect they have in the games - the thing with the black shell is that you're mistakenly conflating "black shells as an item" and "character that happens to wear a black-colored shell which isn't much different from your average shell otherwise". -- Lord G. matters. 23:54, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

RE: Proposal-less PM splits

Yes it should, thanks. Mario JC 08:31, March 14, 2020 (EDT)

Bristle

I dunno about the thing you removed, considering "Bristle" is actually capitalized ingame, which wouldn't make sense for the actual word. Niiue - Who has lost his tail? 01:12, March 18, 2020 (EDT)

Still seems incidental. After all, we removed "vim and vigor" being a vim reference, which would make more sense as an important plot element from the game's predecessor than a totally random reference to an exceedingly rare enemy from a single game of another subseries released ~5 years prior. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:22, March 18, 2020 (EDT)

Imo, it's not too unlikely they'd do a somewhat obscure callback. Just look at some of the Sammer Guys' names, for instance. Also, Partners in Time only came out a year after TTYD... Niiue - Who has lost his tail? 01:34, March 18, 2020 (EDT)

Yeah, but again, direct predecessor, and SPM was already referencing stuff all over the franchise. BiS mostly just referenced its predecessors, with almost all miscellaneous references as part of elaborate enemy attacks. Anyways, if you insist on adding it back, that's fine, I just think that at the very least it should be explicitly stated it's capitalized. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:47, March 18, 2020 (EDT)

Re:Mushroom Houses

It's probably not needed; I'm kind of amazed how consistent the terms "Toad House" and "White Mushroom House" are in regards to Super Mario Bros. 3, so "[color] Mushroom House" should only refer to nonregular Toad Houses in it and Super Mario Advance 4. Will look at the Cataquack thing later (it seems similar to the Bramble situation, which I think is enough to consider related). Also I'll be adding evidence from the Prima guide soon that may merge Advance Coin with Ace Coin. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:31, March 24, 2020 (EDT)

The "Mushroom Coin" from Super Mario Advance 4 can be seen here. Not sure if something similar appears in Super Mario Advance 2 - if you mean the pink berry-induced coin object described here, I think it was given a name in one of the guides but I'll have to double-check. I thought I added it before somewhere. BradyGames indeed refers to red Cataquacks as Chuhanas on page 6, but as it turns out, it also refers to Plungelos as Chuhanas on page 64. I suppose that's not too surprising since both are also called Red Cataquacks, so there was some confusion between the authors' reference material. The same page, and the following, refers to the Wiggler as "Boss Hana", which also implies a connection. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:24, March 24, 2020 (EDT)

Salutation and Question

Hi Mister, I'm happy to see I'm not the only one that know a lot of things about Birdo and recognize as a important character like Toad and Yoshi can be, as a character that was recognize 3 Times Captain, while no minion was a single time. I'm here to talk about what I should do to be got a official account. If I answer 8 times for the same edit is that count or I need to creates 8 edits like this one to be official or I need to wait some days to be confirmed? Also, in this debate with Mario Comix I saw we can erase message in the edit section, so just to be sure my message is not erase by Mario Comix, I want to give you my message here, so we can refer to it if we want whatever happen.

I got my Final Exam this month, so I won't have really more time to debate. So if somebody answer me, you can reply for me.

Thank you again, we will give to Birdo's File, what it should be.

Here my message :

« I understand BBQ Turtle, but Birdo is playable in 26 games, not 24. The Birdo (species)'s page doesn't take care to list her playable appearance in the "List of appearance by date"'s section cause there's not. So, there is a problem, in one page, we can't count the good numbers of appearance. We can't know she is playable in these 2 games, cause no information refer to her Birdo (species)'s page and even if we go on that page, the informations aren't even listed. On one page, we miss some informations about her to made a complete page and on the other, we don't even list things so we aren't able to list the number of her appearance without read all to be sure how many time she is playable in general and as a specie character. That was said, if the community can't cooperate and make a complete page about a character, because some people got a bad opinion of that character, that site is distorted. We are not supposed to put subjective opinion here. We can object, she is not relevant (1), she is just a minion (2), she is not like Toad and Yoshi (3), she make appearance in stage (4), but all of these reason doesn't work.

She is relevant since 1988 (1987 depending if we count YK:DDP), she is a character/minion like Yoshi can be, but more relevant than Toad. She is more relevant than Toad being playable in Mario Tennis 64 (2000) (which Toad isn't), having is own objet in Mario Kart : Double Dash!! (2003) (Toad object is not unique. Sharing it with Toadette), she is playable in Mario Golf : Toadstool Tour (2003) (which Toad isn't), named Team Captain in Mario Superstar Baseball (2005)(which not a minion is) like Doc von Schmeltwick mention, she is playable in Mario Hoops 3-on-3 (2006) (which Toad isn't), she is named Team Captain again in Mario Super Sluggers (2008) (which not a minion is again), she is playable in Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (2016) (which Toad isn't), she is a Captain again in Mario Sports Superstars (2017) (which not a minion is again), in Super Mario Party (2018) the principle of having 10 Good and 10 Bad Characters made usual character being cuted like Birdo (that's normal, they can't put all the characters), but she was previously full modeled at one point she could be playable too like her full design prove it. She's is more playable than Toad itself, she was named 3 Times Captain considering not a single minion is and actually in Dr. Mario World, she is not place at the assistant role like all these minion, making her a eventual Doctors (Captain) like the rest of the Koopalings are due to be too (we will know in the future, based on the 30 march 2020). She is not consider more as a specie in her early Mario Spin-Off at all, all her latest appearance : Mario Party 9 (2012), Mario Golf : World Tour (2014), Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (2016) in the 3DS Version, Mario Sports Superstars (2017), Mario Tennis Aces (2018) and Mario Kart Tour (2019). The only exception to that is in the Wii Version, back to 2016 in Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games. To finish and answer to the fourth reason, Toad appear more in Stages than Birdos.

Like Daisy and Waluigi, Birdo became easily a Icon since Mario Tennis 64 (2000), but more importantly, LGBTQIA+ start identifying this character as the first Trans Character of the Video Games Industry Ever Made. I think we can play a important role by, at least recognize what she did to give her, the visibility the character should got, not more, but not less. People from minority want to identify theirselves to this character and sometimes take facts about that characters, it's not a problem. If she is playable in 26 games and not 24, we just should mention she did it in 26.

If you still got doubt about it BBQ Turttle, I got a solution, why not just add the appropriate facts about it on her page, cause actually, we don't even talk she is represent as a Birdo in Super Mario Strikers and Mario Strikers Charged and we don't even refer to her Birdo (specie)'s page and add these informations in "List of appeareance by date" ***BY MENTION THAN*** she is playable as a Birdos members, not as a singular one. That's it, so the list will be complete AND we will be able to see she doesn't have the same exact appearance than her other games. »

I'm a transgirl and obsessor of weird cartoon reptiles myself, but...ummm.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:38, March 31, 2020 (EDT)

What are you saying, Hahaha? Sorry, I'm new here, so I don't have any idea of what kind of jokes you people makes here. I would also like to talk to you about the Birdo's file section. - Ouimet 06:33, March 31, 2020 (EDT)

The joke is apparent if you click the link. Also you may have wanted to lead with that last sentence instead of that opening essay. -- Lord G. matters. 07:37, March 31, 2020 (EDT)

Hey Doc, I saw your last conversation on Birdo (species) with Gamermakerguy, specially about the fact Pink Birdos into the Mario Strikers series should be transfert on the Birdo (the singular / general) page too. I already did that conversation with Alex95. You don't have to read all we write about the subject, but if you go at the end of the discussion page, you can start reading Alex95 at 1:02, 31 March, 2020 (EDT) until the end of the conversation. You will see, he recognize we are right to change the Birdo (the singular / general). So you don't have to debate anymore. You or me are authorized to change that details. I will correct it, before this summer, for sure. Ouimet (talk) 19:42, 18 April, 2020 (ET)

Light notice about certain comments

Certain users have expressed displeasure, and have been pushed back from the wiki, because of how you word your arguments. Not the actual arguments themselves (usually, but if people get annoyed at different opinions that's their fault, given that no one should be a bigot), but your excessive use of italics and bold and how certain (albeit rare) comments almost attack certain users with their wording, like with your comment towards Scrooge on the Super Soda talk page. While you should be allowed to express your opinions and explain them, you just need to calm down a bit when explaining these opinions, to make sure no one feels insulted. Doomhiker (talk) 20:21, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

I'm sorry, but when I've already explained a concept repeatedly and someone uses the things I literally just debunked as their argument, then I myself feel absolutely personally attacked, so apologies if I naturally respond in a similar (albeit indeed less insulting on a personal level) manner. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:27, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

While feeling that's fine, you shouldn't return that feeling. Doomhiker (talk) 20:30, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

Re:Beetle Goom

I forgot about that, so I'll rewrite accordingly. Punch pretty much has the same attack pattern as Pirate Goom if I recall correctly, so it can probably replace Togemaru in Pirate Goom's infobox. By the way, some sources seem to describe these enemies a little off. I can see why Albatross is called a "gull" and Flame is called a "dragon" (sprite was always too small for me to make out any strong details), but I always thought of Togemaru as some sort of sea creature given how they seemed to be more prevalent in chapters featuring water, though in lieu of anything else, I guess the Beetles category is better than nothing. For Wario Land 3, the Muddee boss is called a "beaver" and the conjectural Tadpole enemy is called "fish". Should we recategorize these enemies? Flame and Muddee in particular are currently considered a fox and salamander, respectively, but the latter is unsourced and in a series where "Kuribō" are mushrooms instead of chestnuts, names alone might not always be a solid indication. BTW: noos gnimoc ofni noitcelloC sseddoG esenapaJ. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:09, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

I wish the scan we had for Togemen's name didn't cut off at the description, but I'll scale it back to be safe. Though I should clarify, it's not just the official website that calls the Tadpoles fish, but also Nintendo Power magazine and a Prima Game Boy guide (though in fairness, they both call Doll Boys hammers "hatchets" when they're clearly not, which is something only the website got right). LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:48, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

Underwhere

Given the order of progress, yeah, The Underwhere came first. But the naming scheme and theme of it and The Overthere implies to me the levels were made concurrently during development, even with the Japanese names (nothing to prove that, though). I really doubt the word "underwear" was on the localizers' minds. And what schoolground joke is "why are you under there?"

They are obviously Kid Icarus references. 15:31, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

I mean, I've certainly joked about the way the name sounds myself. I was in middle school when Super Paper Mario came out, and I don't really pay attention to playground jokes.

But even so, that doesn't really relate to the trivia. Saying it's a play on "underwear" sounds too definitive and a joking statement at best. If it was actually intentional by the dev team, either the way the name sounds or it being a pun on the playground joke, that's something I'd like to see a source on. 16:01, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Well, it's already obvious that the name sounds like "underwear", and the Underworld connection is already stated in the opening paragraph. 16:27, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Adding "may" would sound like speculation, it either is or it isn't. The localizers probably had a laugh when they came up with the name, but that doesn't mean the name is a pun on "underwear". In what way is it a pun when there's absolutely nothing about undergarments in the level? 16:35, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Re:Brier and Marucchi

To be fair, I think Urchin may have just been a placeholder graphic; Urchins are supposed to be in or near water, and like the Boo enemies, there doesn't seem to be a trace of them in the final filenames. That said, it would make sense to at least consider Brier "related" to its inspiration/predecessor. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:07, April 9, 2020 (EDT)

Of Monkeys and Donkeys

As you are aware, the monkey from Yoshi's Island has unused graphics for a larger, Donkey Kong-themed version (my personal speculation was that it was intended to be the World 3 fort boss before it was replaced with Prince Froggy). What you may not know is that a Super Mario 64 debug menu refers to Tall Tall Mountain as DONKEY % SLID2 (the stage with a "monkey" and a second in-course "slide"). Perhaps the Grinder/Ukiki connection stretches further back than initially thought, or was even present all along? They seem loosely based on Donkey Kong at least, long before Uckykong. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:36, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

There is that interview where Takashi Tezuka refers to "monkeys", so I am curious if the original text called them Osaru-san or Osaru instead of saru. Maybe shmuplations can clarify. Also, if I'm correct that Super Mario 64 DS converted and heavily edited files directly from the original game (as what seems to be the case with Ocarina of Time 3D years later, running off a modified game engine), then it might be notable that the two Ukikis are called MONKEY_THIEF and MONKEY_STAR - monkey being either just generic or potentially a simplified rendition of Grinder's Japanese name. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:21, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

Well, just for the record, I did end up finding out which term was used in the Super Mario 64 interview, on page 102 of the Shogakukan guide: 「サル」 (saru). LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:09, March 11, 2022 (EST)

Super Mario RPG

Thanks for dealing with the gallery pages - those and other role-playing game pages have been needing improvement for a while, and that'll save me/anyone else editing quite a few steps when the time comes to rewrite those. -- Lord G. matters. 17:37, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

Yeah, the artwork in statboxes has always bothered me. Maybe this will also encourage people to upload more animated sprites for them like with the M&L enemies....anyways, if I saw any absolute garbage content while doing that, I removed it as well. Highlights include being incredibly insistent Remo Con was a puppet and giving Pinwheel a lot more credit than is due. I'd have rewrote a bunch more, but, homework and keyboard and all.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:40, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

I get the feeling the same could be done for a lot of pages related to Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, since I noticed some of the stat tables use official artwork as well, and even some of the boss articles like Grodus have their enemy stat table right up top in place of a character infobox. Mario Sakuraba (talk) 18:39, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

Yeah, but the problem with that is a lot of the sprites in those cases are layered in funky non-replicable ways in-game, like Smorg for example. And don't even get me started on Hooktail (though admittedly her siblings do fine with what they have...) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:46, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

Monty Mole (green)

So, the page Monty Mole (green) is bothering me. I think a more proper name would be "Green Monty Mole" or "Monty Mole (Flower Fields)". I would try to start a discussion on the talk page but that never works on large, busy wikis like this one so I thought I'd ask you. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 21:37, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

It's fine the way it is. The first one is an absolute no as that looks like attempting to pass that off as an official name, though the second could work. Seems pointless, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:09, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

Well, now I have to ask how we prioritize descriptors when things have the same name. In my opinion, location is more important than physical characteristics because the latter is obvious upon seeing the image in the infobox, so I think it should be moved to "Monty Mole (Flower Fields)". Additionally, in the event that there are two creatures with the same name that are different in a way besides color, it's difficult for me to imagine a descriptor in parentheses that doesn't sound awkward. For example, if there were two Bob-omb enemies that were the same color, but the more powerful one had shades and was found in Madman Sewers instead of Koridai, would it be more proper to have the title as Bob-omb (shades) or Bob-omb (Madman Sewers)? Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 22:17, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

Probably the latter, but palette swap RPG recolors are still a different situation. And of course, if their origin-language names were the same, I'd move to merging outright. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:36, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

Cool. Now I ask what you mean about RPG recolors being a different situation? The only RPGs I've played besides Pokemon are the Paper Mario games, so I wouldn't know. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 23:26, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

In RPG Mario games that aren't Color Splash, generally differently colored versions of enemies are treated as a different but related thing. Take Goomba and Gloomba, for example. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:46, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

Oh I see what you mean. Cool, well I'll go ahead and move the page. Anyway, how have you been holding up during this pandemic? Feels like Dr. Mario 64's plot came to real life, except we don't have megavitamins. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 23:54, April 19, 2020 (EDT)

You probably ought have made a talk page with more than just me....guess we'll see how it pans out. I'm a shut-in anyways, though it's really disrupted my schooling. I'm not seeing a lot in common there? I mean, I don't see a Mad Scienstein or a Rudy, or even a Hammer-Bot.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:19, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

Well, if there was a chat that you're on I could go there. I've been trying to pick up new skills, unfortunately this virus struck when I was trying to acquire a teaching license. Aside from a virus spreading in Dr. Mario 64's story, perhaps there's not too much in common... yet. I'm pretty sure there's an angry robotics engineer out there who wants an easy way to punish Florida spring breakers people who try to spread the virus. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 01:04, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

Just the talk button over the respective page would do. Type what you want with a {{talk}} and wait, I do it all the time. I've been developing two video games in Unity for two separate classes, and had never used said software or the C# language prior to this semester. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:52, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

Re:SMRPG things

Those are basically direct translations, though if you are at all familiar with the Japanese show GameCenter CX represented in Super Mario Maker, you may recognize that Kachō can also translate as "Chief", but I've simplified it as "Manager" so as to not be confused with the actual Factory Chief. If you have difficulty looking up the katakana, try looking up their hiragana or kanji forms: 係長/掛長 (Kakarichō, Clerk), 課長 (Kachō, Manager), 部長 (Buchō, Director), and 工場長 (Kōjōchō, Factory Chief). The suffix 長 (chō, leader) makes it a little more obvious that they are supposed to be ranked from lower to upper corporate management. There are probably others, but the only Super Mario RPG translation off the top of my head that I'm completely unsure about is A Plumber's Lament, which might be a cultural reference I'm missing. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:45, April 21, 2020 (EDT)

Your hunch is correct: as seen here, those references to Kinklink are Wanwan in the Japanese version. My guess is that Woolsey auto-replaced some instances of Wanwan with "Kinklink" when changing Bowser's dialog to specify Kinklink instead of Chomp and there wasn't time to proofread. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:04, April 26, 2020 (EDT)

RE: Salutation and Question

Hey Doc, I saw your last conversation on Birdo (species) with Gamermakerguy, specially about the fact Pink Birdos into the Mario Strikers series should be transfert on the Birdo (the singular / general) page too. I already did that conversation with Alex95. You don't have to read all we write about the subject, but if you go at the end of the discussion page, you can start reading Alex95 at 1:02, 31 March, 2020 (EDT) until the end of the conversation. You will see, he recognize we are right to change the Birdo (the singular / general). So you don't have to debate anymore. You or me are authorized to change that details. I will correct it, before this summer, for sure. Ouimet (talk) 19:42, 18 April, 2020 (ET)

Where is said conversation? Either way, should almost definitely have a proposal first. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:50, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

RE: Ivysaur

I'll admit that the resemblance is definitely there at least for Bulbasaur, I don't really see it as much in Ivysaur and definitely not in Venusaur. Honestly though, Gen 1 had some pretty lousy sprite work across the board so I think it's better to work off of Sugimori's art, which shows that they've changed little since then, with Venusaur not changing at all. Ivysaur is essentially the same, just a bit lower to the ground. Particularly Bulbasaur has a "squashed" design making it look more froglike, but for what it's worth, the evolutionary tree was designed backwards so Bulbasaur was last. I'm hesitant to consider them frogs because while they're froglike to some degree and that influence was definitely there in development, that doesn't really make them frogs any more than it makes Mr. Mime straight up human. Not to mention that as far as design goes, the whole family is also influenced by cats and reptiles in general. They don't exhibit any characteristics of frogs and no sort of resemblance is ever mentioned officially that I know of, not even in their Japanese name, which instead seems to outright call it some sort of mysterious strange thing, unlike Charmander and Squirtle which do have a reference to being lizard and turtle, respectively. As for being amphibious, nothing (aside from being partially based on frogs obviously) actually suggests that they are.

Apologies for the rant, I just wanted to explain my reasoning and it went a lot longer than I expected. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 17:04, April 27, 2020 (EDT)

Re:Yoshi's Story stuff

It reads 「4連プロペラヘイホー」 (4-ren Puropera Heihō), where the kanji is letting you know that it's a group or set of four (basically "4-in-a-row Propeller Shy Guy"). The term 「4連プロペラヘイホー」 only shows up once more in the guide on page 98 regarding 5-3; it's more generic elsewhere in the guide, namely 「4連ヘイホー」 on page 66 regarding 3-4 and 「4匹のヘイホー」 on page 62 regarding 3-3 (where hiki is a simple counter for small animals). In contrast, 「プロペラヘイホー」 is fairly consistent throughout the guide. The impression I get is that Shogakukan added descriptors to differentiate it and then sort of lost track along the way, which I can back up. I mentioned a while back that I have another Japanese guide for Yoshi's Story - the TAKARAJIMASHA book under the "TJ MOOK" brand, called 「ヨッシーストーリー 攻略の帝王」 (Yoshi's Story Kōryaku no Teiō). Sure enough, both Shy Guys are called 「プロペラヘイホー」 in it, including two identically-named headers on page 10 (and, as an aside, lists 「ゆきだまヘイホー」 for Snow Guy, which is the name later given to it for Yoshi's Island DS and is just basically called Heihō in the Shogakukan guide). Thing is, there's a reason I haven't added anything from this guide to the mainspace - I'm not really sure if the book is official. The book credits lists "©1997 Nintendo" and "©1998 TAKARAJIMASHA" in it (it also claims a release date of February 28, 1998), but the back cover has "©1997 Nlintendo" on it. In contrast, however, Shueisha's V Jump guide for Super Mario RPG makes no Nintendo copyright claim, but I'm told that some unlicensed guides apparently got away with giving a simple copyright despite the original company having no involvement with the product, which I assume is a quirk of Japanese law. Japanese Wikipedia states that authorized guides generally call themselves Kōshiki, which is another mark against this guide. If it is official, it may interest you to know that the phrase 「おおきなプクプク」 shows up on page 86 (though it's 「プクプク」 on page 79), but for now, I'm leaning towards it being unofficial. Side note: while Shogakukan doesn't call attention to Chomp's size (and it's not even mentioned by name in the TJ guide), Nintendo Power guide does, which might be worth noting in the Chomp Shark trivia. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:28, April 30, 2020 (EDT)

SMM2 Koopaling sprite palettes

Do you have some good way to check the Koopalings', specifically Larry and Lemmy's SMB and SMB3 style sprites from SMM2 and maybe Iggy and Ludwig's SMB style sprites? It's just seems to me ever since I saw the original SMB3 sprite sheets and some SMB3 videos that Larry seems to use an unique but very difficult-to-notice green from Lemmy and Bowser. SmokedChili (talk) 14:50, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

Check for yourself? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:06, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

Well that sure helped dick and all because I already knew of those sprite sheets. Still, I found out how to check the RGB values from the spots I wanted and got my answers. SmokedChili (talk) 12:02, May 7, 2020 (EDT)

? You could easily have opened one in any drawing tool and used the dropper tool to make one the transparency color it, then moved the other to see if the other sprite became transparent or not? Or in more advanced ones, the magic wand tool with a tolerance of 0? I guess as a spriter, I sometimes forget this doesn't go without saying for everyone else. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:40, May 7, 2020 (EDT)

That's no excuse when you're often asking for Japanese info from LinkTheLefty who's pretty much the local Japanese (guide) expert. Just seems rather unfair that for all the help you get here, yours for me was basically, "It's this obvious(?)" and expected me to expect that too. SmokedChili (talk) 10:46, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

You only acknowledged videos and the SMB3 sprite sheets in your initial comment. Since a surprising amount of commenters on TSR are having trouble finding them on there, I didn't realize you knew of their presence there already. Either way, that was in the middle of my Final Exams/Projects week, so I was ultra-busy and didn't want to take time I didn't really have to check. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:53, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

Well you could have clarified on that as I could have clarified on the sprite sheets. "Check for yourself" isn't exactly the most clear way to communicate either. SmokedChili (talk) 16:47, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

Valid. Anyways, what were your findings? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:49, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

Well as I suspected, Larry's sprite in SMB3 indeed uses different green from Lemmy and Bowser. But this isn't faithfully recreated in SMM2 where his SMB3 style sprite does use the same green as Bowser, Bowser Jr. and Lemmy. As for the SMB style sprites, I mainly needed some kind of technical way to confirm that specific Koopalings like Iggy and Ludwig use the same colors between themselves (which they do) because Larry's SMB3 sprite made me paranoid about there being super subtle differences in color. SmokedChili (talk) 13:16, May 9, 2020 (EDT)

Okay, hear me out again...

So, I was thinking about Flower Fields and Chapter 6, right? ...and I noticed that the theme seems to draw heavy inspiration from 60's counterculture. The colors of the flowers in tandem with the fact that the level is in another dimension seem to reference psychedelic drugs, Lakilester is a very typical 60's high school "bad boy" (think of a greaser from "The Outsiders", a story that also takes place in the 60's), the music (specifically Lakilester's and Huff N. Puff's themes) has a strong 60's vibe, and we all know what the Stinky Herb is referencing. I should also mention that air pollution (specifically from fossil fuels; the puff-puff machine seems to be burning gas) is a big point of concern in the chapter, and in the 60's was when environmentalism really started to kick off (as a result of counterculture). What do you think? Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 01:15, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

I can see that, but it's more likely a coincidence than the Floro Sapiens having the vocal mannerisms of flower children. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:59, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

A Stroll Down Rolling Lane

I can totally see where you are coming from when you made this edit (and it is something I thought about before I made mine). However, other level articles only tend to list the enemies that are directly involved in the mission. For example, Bowser on Ice, Sorbetti's Chilly Reception, Prince Pikante's Peppery Mood, and Octo-Army Icy Rainbow Romp do not list Gummits or any of their varieties, which I recall being a very similar case. While I personally feel that is the best way to go about it, I am not saying it is wrong to list them, since they can technically be encountered, and I mainly just wanted to explain my reasoning. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 14:59, May 9, 2020 (EDT)

Thought about that too (though they aren't in the Octo-Army one). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:03, May 9, 2020 (EDT)

My bad, I forgot that Octo-Army was a Prankster Comet, though the other ones are similar. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 15:16, May 9, 2020 (EDT)

Re:"Never float in midair"

Yeah, but meaning it's not a natural element of the world, whereas you have to trigger them to appear via switch. And once again, exactly the same as the original SM64 block. But I should've typed "hardly" instead of "never". LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:45, May 22, 2020 (EDT)

Let's look at it another angle - can they be destroyed by hitting from below like Brick Blocks? I don't recall many opportunities to do so, but I remember punches and ground pounds do the trick. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:06, May 22, 2020 (EDT)

I also want to add that I'm open to other suggestions on how to reorganize it, but when a replacement object has the same exact properties as it did in a previous version of the game, it doesn't really warrant basically spreading the same information across multiple articles in my opinion. You're familiar with the revised Snufit and Keronpa Ball, but in addition, the game's Crates are called 「小さなブロック」 (Chiisana Burokku, Small Block) in Super Mario 64, whereas they are 「木箱」 (Kibako, Wooden Box) in Super Mario 64 DS. I don't think they're worth splitting between Super Mario 64 and Super Mario 64 DS because they serve the exact same purpose. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:44, May 22, 2020 (EDT)

Whomp Block was a naming error, however, due to misreading Batta as Battan. It's got absolutely nothing to do with Whomps. I could have sworn there was a discussion about it but I can't seem to find it at the moment (it might've been on a user talk page somewhere). Anyway, we certainly could move the Super Mario 64 "Crate" away from the main Crate article, but if we do that, I'd prefer if it were still together with the Super Mario 64 DS Crate (I'm actually not sure if the N64 object was ever directly called a crate, but it's implied by the name of Crazed Crate). Whether it means merging all the SM64/DS blocks into one article or creating a separate "Crate (Super Mario 64)" article, I don't know, but splitting what's essentially the same object between N64 and DS appearances is a little silly since the renames are just due to a combination of redone textures and gameplay changes. Something else to consider: unlike YUREI_MUCHO and KERONPA using their newer names, the names of Brick and Crate are still BLOCK_L and BLOCK_S internally (also the Purple Switch-activated Brick is a separate object, SW_BLOCK_L, and there's a Black Brick-sized orange Brick, DP_BLOCK_L, though I don't remember where it's used - for context, Black Brick is BLOCK_LL and Ice is ICE_BLOCK_LL). So the game's crate is still ultimately considered a small block. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:52, May 22, 2020 (EDT)

Naming errors are a part of policy, just because the error is in-game doesn't mean we have to be blind to it. Something else about the manual is that it's not just "Brick" you should be looking at - all the blocks are named generically if you take them at face value. As such, maybe they're not supposed to be read as Crate, Brick, Black Brick, and Ice - but rather, Crate Block, Brick Block, Black Brick Block, and Ice Block. That'd make sense with the internal names still referring to them as blocks but primarily distinguishing them by size. But I guess I'll take this discussion to the block talk page - hopefully by then I can answer my question as to whether they can be hit from below. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:11, May 23, 2020 (EDT)

...And we were in the middle of an active discussion where we didn't have all the facts ready yet to present a bigger talk page discussion, but I digress. I just hacked to test out my question since I felt like it's that important before determining for sure that they should move into Brick Block. The result: no, hitting from below does not break the Brick, which is something that is true of every standard Brick Block since the dawn of time in all appearances. I'm not sure why the translation is anything like Super Mario Land - that Japanese manual you linked to earlier matches the English version. As for Wet Bones, I've explained before that I don't believe it is a naming error - Fish Bone has behavior new to New Super Mario Bros. Wii that can even be considered derivative in most normal circumstances, but later games stuck with this behavior for so the name was dropped and reverted to Fish Bone. Though if you still feel that strongly about it then you can go ahead and make a proposal out of it - just know that I'm not the only one who supports leaving game-specific names as-is. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:33, May 23, 2020 (EDT)

I mean, I don't really buy that they simply forgot to program it since breaking Brick Blocks from below such an iconic element of the series. It's practically the reason for the classic jump pose. Anyway, there are other blocks that aren't mentioned in the manual, like those giant Bricks (unless they're unused?), pushable blocks, and the two other types of Ice Block. I'll collect my bearings and post my thoughts and observations on the talk page later. By the way, if you want (since I know you had a grievance with this too), I'll compromise on Super Mario World's Mini-Ninja since the Super Mario Advance 2 guide refers to them as Ninji (albeit Prima). LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:20, May 23, 2020 (EDT)

RE:This

Okay, I was thinking of an older revision of the page. My bad. ^(T|C) 18:11, June 13, 2020 (EDT)

re:Miyamoto and DKC myth

Uhhhhh what is said in that manual lol --Glowsquid (talk) 08:17, June 16, 2020 (EDT)

I don't think it's worth noting. Stephen Kent specifically alluded to that quote being said during that Electronic Games itnerview on an episode of G4 Icons so I doubt he somehow conflated it with snarky flavour text from a Game Boy instruction manual. --Glowsquid (talk) 15:43, June 16, 2020 (EDT)

RE:idk change it

Hey dude. I jsut wanted to say that the Skull Switch should be capitalized as all of the switches and things do. P Switches aren't name P switches, smae for the ? Switch, and even for the Warp Cannon. Anyway, bye, it's 0:30 in France so...

This isn't a "Re:" by the way. The difference here is whether the source capitalizes it. If they don't (as is the case with skull switch), neither should we. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:31, June 18, 2020 (EDT)

Ok. In fact, I don't have the guide so I can't tell as it's in this paid guide that you have the answer. But, I know that : - MarioWiki capitalized it - Why does it will not be capitalized as basically everything else does. Oh, and btw, thanks for answering, and thanks for the file deletion...

RE: Obnoxious IP

Porple just added something that should put a stop to it. Mario JC 09:56, July 21, 2020 (EDT)

MarioWiki:Proposals#definitions of undead and deceased

It would be nice if you took part in it Pokemon (talk) 02:32, July 30, 2020 (EDT)

A question...

...did you ever watch The X-Files? I ask because I noticed that an episode, called "Irresistible," contains eerie music which seems to have been sampled in the Creepy Steeple song in TTYD. The music I'm talking about appears to be the theme of Donnie Pfaster, the episode's villain. I don't know if it's a generic sample or not, as music isn't studied as much as other content in most games. But I had a hunch you'd know something. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 20:29, August 8, 2020 (EDT)

Not since early childhood, unfortunately. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:44, August 8, 2020 (EDT)

Re:Wild Sting

Yes, but the same booklet also refers to the Giant Clam as "Clambo", which is the Japanese name of that boss. Also, something interesting: it refers to Nemo as "Nautilus" and Flapper as "Nemo", and labels Ram Bunkshus as "Ram Head" and claims that it appears somewhere in the game as an enemy harder than Klump or Krusha (almost like Mr. X). LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:15, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

Not in a dedicated enemy profile section if that's what you mean, but the other names mentioned are mostly right with the exception of "Bratty Rats" that appear to refer to Gnawties. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:22, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

Yep, most of the enemies seem to be accounted for, except Gloop. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:26, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

In addition to Gloops, enemy Clambos, regular Neckies (although pictured), and the basket of snakes aren't mentioned. "Poisonous snakes from Donkey Kong Island" are mentioned to have infested the rigging under a header called "SEA-FARING SLIPPAS!" on page 10, so I guess they're just Slippas with different behavior. Mincers (if you count them) are called "spiked wheels of doom" on page 14. LinkTheLefty (talk) 04:04, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

RE:Flip Panel

Forgot about those. Thanks! I'll add the information at my earliest convenience. ^(T|C) 20:37, August 10, 2020 (EDT)

RE:Nail

They're covered at Stump, and I already have an about template explaining that. ^(T|C) 21:33, August 20, 2020 (EDT)

Archiving Proposals

I'm pretty sure that what you did was only for proposals that happend directly on the page itself. --DarkNight 23:01, August 25, 2020 (EDT)

Re:gards to Cheep Chomp

Interesting. It can go either way - in the source code, buku_texture contains a reference to puku_eye_txt, but that may be because Bubba borrows Bub's textures since it seems only the puku model uses it; however, enemy folders tend to be grouped by course, and buku is with the Tiny-Huge Island enemies in enemy1_k while puku seems to be with some water-based enemies and objects in enemy2_d (this oddly includes amembow, which was added to Dire, Dire Docks in the DS version, although enemy1_d contains the rest of the enemies from the course). The folders could have been organized closer to finalization, but then there's the fact that there is enough pre-release assets found in the source code that people have been able to accurately recreate the graphics and sounds of the Shoshinkai 1995 build, and as far as I know, there's no sign of a Bubba without sunglasses. So I personally think that it's probably a regular Bub set at a different scale, but I'm not too sure about it. Side note, I prefer Cheep Chomp being considered derivative of Blurp and Big Cheep Cheep, considering the direct similarities and that Super Mario Pia statement. Also regarding Cheep Chomp, congrats on a proposal I once thought would be impossible, but don't celebrate too soon - SmokedChili initiated a follow-up discussion since he just happened to miss the deadline (even though I told him to reply in it to clarify why he voted against the Blurps, and he certainly had time to respond to me about other fish, but whatever). I honestly think he just really wanted Boss Bass to be Cheep Chomp, which, to be fair, a lot of us did in previous proposals and discussions, but we've also allowed new information and observations to change our points of view over time. Please see what you can do about it. EDIT: Also, given Super Paper Mario came out after Yoshi's Island DS and only mentions Boss Bass by name, shouldn't Super Paper Mario information be on both Big Cheep Cheep and Cheep Chomp pages to be safe? LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:42, August 26, 2020 (EDT)

Oops

Forgot to ask you, but I created the infobox thing you proposed. --DarkNight 12:47, August 29, 2020 (EDT)

I'm going to split Jaxi. Is that okay? --DarkNight 16:35, August 30, 2020 (EDT)

I'll do it, just not right now. I'm busy. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:11, August 30, 2020 (EDT)

Backgrounds in PC version of Mario is Missing

Recently, I have played though the PC/DOS version of Mario is Missing, and it was not anywhere near as bad as I was told it was going to be, thought I can see why people might not like it due to how different it is from the typical Mario game. Because of this, I have decided that I will make a sprite comic based off of the game, but in order to make that sprite comic, I need backgrounds, manly the backgrounds of the areas with the Koopalings, and the background for the area where Bowser is deshelled by Luigi. However, to my knowledge, none of the backgrounds from the MS-DOS/PC version of Mario is Missing have ever been ripped, as I have checked Mario Fan Games Galaxy/MFGG, The Spriters Resource/TSR, and various other websites that have sprites since the beginning of the year, and no MS-DOS Mario is Missing backgrounds were found. While the backgrounds from the SNES version have been ripped, the castle/ending backgrounds from the SNES version are vastly different from the castle backgrounds from the MS-DOS version. Because of this, could you please rip the ending cutscene backgrounds from the game files and upload it to the wiki. If you can't do that, rip the ending cutscene backgrounds and upload them to The Spriters Resource/TSR. If you don't know how to rip the backgrounds, could you tell me the Mario Wiki username of someone who could rip the ending cutscene background from the files of the MS-DOS version of Mario is Missing. Here is an image with the background I would like ripped

MarioIsMissingDos (talk) 4:18, 19 September 2020 (EST)

Did you mean to speak to me or was that an accident? I'm dreadfully sorry, but the only iteration of that game I have any direct experience at all with is the NES version. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:55, September 19, 2020 (EDT)

Oh, I mistook your username for someone else. Sorry, but you do get to see one of my favorite images on the entire wiki, if only Nintendo would have Luigi or Mario pull Bowser's shell off in a future game as a reference to Mario is Missing. MarioIsMissingDos (talk) 6:55, 20 September 2020 (EST)

Can I Get A...

What what to these chickens from all of my thugs ...source for that NSMB press release stuff? That shell is really suspicious and nobody linked anything in the upload or on the article. Blue Ninjakoopa (talk) 13:09, September 20, 2020 (EDT)

Whenever RMV says "Nintendo of Europe," it means he got it from the official "Nintendo Asset Library" site. Trust me on this, I know what he does. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:22, September 20, 2020 (EDT)

Re:falling rocks

So what happened here is a simple mistake - there's one character difference in the course descriptions, namely 「落石注意！」 for Choco Mountain becoming 「落下注意！」 for Bowser's Castle. The former is accurate, but the latter is marked for spaces where you can fall down. There might have been some context error in localization or miscommunication between a translator and editor, or something along those lines. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:35, September 23, 2020 (EDT)

Prince Froggy's Shy Guys

I'll double-check how they are described in my guides (which I should be able to do this weekend), but in keeping track of other instances of big versions of Shy Guys, I remembered there is a fairly obvious example - the Shy Guys that Prince Froggy eats in Yoshi's Island. Now, I know that technically, Yoshi was shrunk and these Shy Guys are supposed to be normal size - but on the flip side, Shrinker Pipes in Super Mario 64 are supposed to be changing Mario's size (despite some minor inconsistencies between the Tiny and Huge Islands), yet the differently-sized enemies are considered big and small versions (albeit Small Piranha does appear elsewhere in the game). Since these enemies are big or small in relation to Mario, shouldn't the Shy Guys that Prince Froggy eats be considered big in relation to Yoshi and Baby Mario? LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:35, September 23, 2020 (EDT)

So the SNES Player's Guide doesn't mention the Shy Guys' size, but the GBA one does: "Slurp up the big Shy Guys to make extra-large Eggs, then shoot Prince Froggy’s uvula (the thing dangling from the top of the screen). Don’t worry too much about aiming." (page 60, under Food Fight). The thing about the Shrinker Pipes changing Mario's size comes from the Nintendo Power's Player's Guide and the official UK Nintendo Magazine's "The Essential Player's Guide", and the website, but I don't know how Japanese material handles it. The game is decidedly vaguer with its "The Tip Top of the Huge Island" mission and Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. refers to でか島 (Huge Island) and ちび島 (Tiny Island), unless that's just stating the island's size in relation to Mario, though Shrinker Pipes are treated as regular pipes. Someone with the Shogakukan guide might know. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:33, September 27, 2020 (EDT)

If I'm not mistaken, big versions of Shy Guys have also appeared in the following: Yoshi's Story pre-release, at least one game* of the Mario Party series, Mario Tennis Aces, and Mario Kart Tour (as Mega form). The Mario Party series appearance is debatable since apparently the premise of Mario Party DS is that the playable characters have all been shrunken down, but it seems like the enemy characters have inconsistent sizes that don't always align with that idea. Do you know of other possible appearances? Also, regarding the Super Mario 64 Shogakukan guide - sorry, but I'm only privy to the interview portion, which I presume was scanned to be translated at a later time. That said, I may get my own copy of the guide at some point if no one else here has it, but probably not now. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:03, October 16, 2020 (EDT)

On whether Keronpa Ball should be merged? Right now, I'm leaning towards it having similar treatment as Snufit - which is to say, a separate article from their "parent" - but that can easily change, depending on how reconfirmation goes. Maybe ask Mister Wu if he happens to have the guide(s) in question? About Viridi, remember that she also mentioned several other species out of order of appearance, which resemble Japanese Wikipedia order no less. I would be cautious about taking the order she mentions them too literally. The Lava Piranha (and Petit Piranhas?) probably need a proposal since it seems more like a fire version of the Naval Piranha boss more than a standard Fire Piranha. The parent species might be enough to say what they are. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:49, October 16, 2020 (EDT)

Something interesting regarding the Tiny-Huge Island enemies: in the Super Mario 64 assets, there's a file called tagdecode.h within the include folder, and in it, the different-sized Goombas and Piranha Plants are labelled as follows: TAGCODE_e_b_kuribo (Big Goomba), TAGCODE_e_s_kuribo (Small Goomba), TAGCODE_e_kuribo (Goomba), TAGCODE_e_pakun (Piranha Plant), TAGCODE_e_minipakun (Small [Fire] Piranha), TAGCODE_e_firepakun (Fire Piranha Plant), and TAGCODE_e_bigpakun (Big [Fire] Piranha). This could just be abbreviated since the different-sized Piranha Plants are obviously Fire Piranha Plant instead of the basic sleeping type, but it could explain why the name of the small version of Fire Piranha includes "Fire" in one source but leaves it out in another. Now, this file includes some things that were cut; for example, it mentions TAGCODE_e_jumpblock (Note Block?) TAGCODE_e_gesso (Blooper!), TAGCODE_e_icemotos (Ice Motos!), and TAGCODE_e_namazu (Lunge Fish?), and doesn't mention "puku" or "buku" but rather TAGCODE_e_pukumother (Big Bertha?). But I think it's the only mention I've noticed of the enemies set at a different scale (also noting it just has TAGCODE_e_indy but no other size planned). Also, something interesting about Snufit: in the assets, the flying Shy Guy and Snifit-derived enemies are labelled as heyho and mucho, respectively, though the former also has a few references as heyho_fly. My theory: they considered the Shy Guy to be the established Fly Guy late in development, but overlooked Snifit (in Japan), which was renamed to be closer to the established Boo Guy in Super Mario 64 DS. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:48, October 25, 2020 (EDT)

Character Suggestions

Hello - You've seen I've been making some character articles. I just wanted to double check if there are any that need to be made for Super Mario Sunshine you would recommend, or if there are perhaps any pre-existing articles I could add to. I asked TheDarkStar about this, but he hasn't been as active lately, so this is just for now. Thank you, and, if you have any questions, please let me know. Green Star 17:30, October 18, 2020 (EDT)

Super Mario Bros. infobox image question

Seeing as this proposal stemmed from your thoughts, I figured I'd ask either you or DarkNight. After the proposal was finished, official course icons from Super Mario Bros. 35 were uploaded. Now, I generally agree with the proposal, but seeing as how these are official in-game screenshots that seem even more color-accurate than some of our own screenshots (albeit zoomed in to hide the HUD), do you think these should be the infobox images for the Super Mario Bros. courses instead? If you agree or are unsure, maybe we can get more consensus here, but if you disagree, I'll drop it. (Also, I know I'm overdue for some proposals and changes, but I haven't had the time yet.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:00, October 20, 2020 (EDT)

Paper Bloop

So...given your thoughts on the TTYD Blooper boss on the Lava Piranha talk page, would you have an issue with what I proposed doing at the end of the Big Blooper talk page? I was going to go ahead with it before making that proposal and so far there haven't been objections, but if you disagree please let me know. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:24, October 25, 2020 (EDT)

The way I see it, however, it's not really a "retcon" (poor word choice on my part) so much as the confirmation of a phenomenon within the original game, as it being the only type of Blooper fought directly by the party likely meant that the battle programmers simply didn't feel the need to specify that it was a "big" one at the time. But I can just make it another option when I make the proposal if there's contention. I get where you're coming from and I'd be agreeing if it was the only Blooper size in the game, but I think that's the key here. That aside, you think the Super Smash Bros. appearance is clear-cut enough to go ahead? LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:40, October 26, 2020 (EDT)

All right, will note accordingly, no prob. I'd be shocked if Super Smash Bros. didn't at least influence the ReDeads in Tri Force Heroes, but that's neither here nor there. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:03, October 26, 2020 (EDT)

RE: Teeth Polease

That makes more sense, thanks. Mario JC 07:14, November 2, 2020 (EST)

Why Paper Jam is not a Paper Mario game

I would have thought this would be obvious enough already, but the main reason we don't consider Paper Jam a Paper Mario game is because it is a Mario & Luigi game, developed by Alphadream and is considered part of that series, and there is no way a game could possibly be part of two series. I'm pretty sure even Nintendo wouldn't consider it a Paper Mario game. Nightwicked Bowser

But that's exactly what a crossover is. Anyways, I've had a discussion elsewhere, and I suppose the fact it plays more like a typical M&L game is enough for it to have some slight level of priority, and even then it wasn't given a reference in TOK's series-wide continuity nods. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:48, November 2, 2020 (EST)

According to his debut, Poochy ain't stupid

Why did you have to put on my talk page "According to his debut, Poochy Ain't Stupid? It is very unnecessary and all you are stating is Poochy knows more than a 3 Year old. Also the category you put it in makes it make no sense at all. You put it in the category "Although he isn't very smart." You are not proving anything because you can just write it as Poochy Ain't Stupid but he isn't smart either.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kaden Pervaiz (talk).

Poochy Ain't Stupid is the name of a level in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, the game Poochy first appeared in. Nightwicked Bowser

...I think you're taking this way too personally. Where are you getting that he isn't a smart dog? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:12, November 29, 2020 (EST)

RE:Pokey

A debut game identifier definitely sounds like a viable option, though I'm not 100% certain that it'll work out. We'll see, I guess. ^(T|C) 13:19, December 7, 2020 (EST)

Why I only undid the last edit

I didn't realise there were lots of other edits on that page which weren't reverted. Besides, those were from a couple of weeks ago and the latest one was last night. Nightwicked Bowser

Huh, I'd thought I'd seen more on the recent changes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:05, December 9, 2020 (EST)

Yeah, that user did hit quite a lot of Luigi's Mansion-related pages. Nightwicked Bowser

Re:Roulette Block

I guess so. -- FanOfYoshi 11:48, January 9, 2021 (EST)

RE: Unbaba meaning

It does now that you point it out... Mario JC 06:31, March 29, 2021 (EDT)

Anti Guy proposal

I also don't appreciate your remark in your recent comment. What I was actually saying is I don't want to argue about it anymore because it's just going to get nowhere and I don't want to waste my mental health trying. I have read your "so you've gotten into a debate with me" section of your userpage, and I do see where you're coming from with it. Please just accept that I'm backing down from the discussion now. Nightwicked Bowser 16:42, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

If you're that worried for your state of mind, you should probably withdraw from it completely rather than leave unaddressed loose ends to continue gnawing. I think you're a good user, but this really isn't the way to go. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:58, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

I decided to change my vote because I realised my reasoning wasn't well thought out, and the amount of other articles across the wiki that are laid out as such. Nightwicked Bowser 17:40, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

NiOL anon

If you see any anons adding Japanese translations but forgetting spaces between punctuation, just report them. They're the same person evading bans and ignoring talk page advice. Mario JC 21:39, April 24, 2021 (EDT)

I was suspicious of such, thanks. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:53, April 24, 2021 (EDT)

Paper Unbaba and Yoob Egg

So, mulling it over, I wouldn't really say the Hooktail family has a "direct" relation to Blargg, not enough for them to be considered notable members in the species infobox. Super Mario World cartoon notwithstanding, Blarggs are typically found submerged instead of aboveground, and the Hooktail family are consistently called "dragons" in the game script. That said, I noticed that at least one article, Mecha Cheep, uses a parameter called species_origin (subject origin). I'm not really sure what use this was supposed to have over species, and it's probably used incorrectly in that case, but maybe Blargg would work for Hooktail if the character infobox phrased something like a subject origin. Anyway, about the egg, I was also thinking "Egg (Yoob)" or "Egg (Sunnycide)" would be better, but if I'm understanding determining the identifier correctly, it and the Wario Land 4 egg enemy have to both use game titles. Correct me if I'm wrong. Noos taht no kcab teg emmel tub dda ot ffuts ediug evah osla I! LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:51, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

Oh, I know this was a while ago, but I noticed something else interesting. According to Blargg's Shogakukan profile for Yoshi's Story, Blargg is the master of the Lava Bubbles. Maybe that's the name etymology? Unbaba / Baburu? Would it be a stretch to say that may be why the Blargg-like Czar Dragon is composed of them? LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:23, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

Another potential discovery is in the Super Mario World Shogakukan guide's "Unbaba" profile. Here's how it's decribed in the first sentence: 「火の海に生きるワニに似た敵。」 (Within the fire sea dwells this croc-like enemy.). I don't know about you, but I've never seen Blargg described as resembling a crocodile, and other profiles call it a dinosaur if anything. Now, this could just be a funny way to describe its attack method, but a possibility I realized was that Blargg could've been a crocodile at one point. It's inferred from development assets that the developers had trouble coming up with a design, so a crocodile might've also been drawn at one point, and the description was written with that species concept in mind. With that, it hit me: could ウンババ (Unbaba) be a corruption of ワニバブル (Wanibaburu)? LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:03, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Dino Piranha spacing

My main intent was to further seperate the infoboxes from each other, I thought it looked worse before. Nightwicked Bowser 20:04, May 11, 2021 (EDT)

Rope (redux)

Since it's now been over a year since your proposal on the Rope talk page, I've been thinking of making a follow-up proposal to better categorize the different types of ropes. That said, though, the way I want to go about it may be a bit too complicated for a proposal at the moment, so I want to hear your suggestions on how to go about this:

• The first article I would create as a result would be Rope (swinging), to cover any and all dangling ropes that the player uses to swing on and thus build momentum for a jump. The only problem I could see happening is the overlap with "swinging vine", which may cause a naming disagreement to be had. And swinging vines aren't any different either; I've played all of the New Super Mario Bros. games 100%, Luigi U included, and I can guarantee that swinging ropes and swinging vines are exactly the same despite all versions of the Encyclopedia treating them differently.
• The second article would be Rope (hand-over-hand), to cover any and all ropes that the player simply grabs onto from below, moving along them by continuously putting one hand in front of the other. Since these particular ropes only appear in the first three New Super Mario Bros. games (and the graphic for moving around on them even goes unused in New Super Mario Bros. U), I see no potential problems with this.
• The third article would be Tightrope, to cover any and all ropes that the player actually walks on and has the potential to lose their balance and fall. More on the potential problems below.
• The fourth article would be Wire, to cover any and all ropes that Mario moves on sideways from below, and can be spun on to jump off of. Though one major problem that you pointed out yourself is that wires and tightropes are technically merged into one object in Super Mario Sunshine despite having very little in common in every other game. My one solution for this would be to relegate the Mario Sunshine info to Wire Rope and give mention to this in both the tightrope and wire articles, though that might not be the most practical solution. There's also the bars from Wario Land: Shake It! that also behave exactly like wires.
• The fifth article would be Elevator rope, to cover any and all dangling ropes that can only be climbed and not swung off of. These types of ropes do appear in a handful of games, such as Donkey Kong Jr., Donkey Kong Country 2, and Mario vs. Donkey Kong, though like the "swinging rope" issue I mentioned, some of these objects are actually vines, such as in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.

I just want to make sure I have a multi-option proposal that narrows down the options enough so that there are at least a few that any reasonable person could agree to. ^(T|C) 16:57, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

Main problem I see (as you pointed out) is that 2, 3, and 4 have so much mingling that "splitting" them definitively doesn't really work. I really see them as effectively the same thing adapted to differing gameplay styles (much like wire netting). 1 and 5 I give a "maybe," do both include respective vines? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:04, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

To answer your question, yes. Though in regards to 2, 3, and 4, the Encyclopedia considers all three different regardless of language. ^(T|C) 17:09, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

Can you elaborate on that? What's the origin language call them? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:12, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

Awaiting a response from LinkTheLefty. On that note, though, 2 and 3 appear in completely different columns in the New Super Mario Bros. 2 section. ^(T|C) 17:23, May 16, 2021 (EDT)

Of Silver Dinos and other things

On Silver Chomp, I guess we went with using both names in the article, but now that I think about it, this creates an inconsistency with Gold Chomp. Either Gold Chomp should be moved back to Golden Chomp or the name from the Japanese mission title should be removed from the Silver Chomp article (probably sourcing the English name for Silver Chomp to the Prima guide, which I think would look awkward). The same user also pointed out an unrelated file with internal names that I was overlooking, and it confirms that "sambo_m" for the Poison Pokey from The Thousand-Year Door and Super Paper Mario stands for "sambo_mummy", not sambo_midori like I thought (stuff like the Fuzzy colors aren't carried over from the first Paper Mario), so I plan to add that merge to my list of overdue proposals sometime soon. On topic of proposals, I was afraid that the Anti Guy merge wouldn't reach consensus after the Yoshi's Story one split. In the meantime, how to go about fixing the awkward "parent species debuted after derivative" relationship between the Black Shy Guy and Anti Guy articles? For the Super Mario Galaxy boss, the only difference is that page 289 of the first game's Prima guide calls it "the" Fiery Dino Piranha and page 262 of the second game's Prima guide just calls it Fiery Dino Piranha. And for the Ghost Stream, I believe you're thinking of the right thing, though the Player's Guide puts it in the Enemy Index. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:38, May 25, 2021 (EDT)

Well, I do want to at least give Poison Pokey and Pink Fuzzy a shot eventually (possibly considering them respective variants of Pokey Mummy and Flower Fuzzy in lieu of merging), but one thing at a time I guess. Pale Piranha and Moon Cleft seem to be in a similar enough situation as I recall that I think they can be handled simultaneously, but...it's been a little while so I wouldn't mind a refresher on it, I know I weighed in somewhere but I don't recall all the nuance on the top of my head. If you want dibs, you can have it. What's on my mind are reorganizing Big Bloopers (which will be a multiple choice proposal) and remerging Metal Mario redux, and perhaps something else. I'm looking at doing them sometime within the next month. Dark Craw was something I wanted to address at one point (along with "Spiky Gloomba" which always bugged me a bit seeing next to "Spiked Goomba" despite technically being policy-correct), but I don't remember Gus being implied to be the species name. The user who claimed that for the Italian name is fairly active so I'd try asking for clarification. Ghost Stream is probably worth a bit more discussion, but all I know is that it needs coverage, so maybe it can be added to same article and decided later if it should stay. Reformatting Naval Piranha is something I wouldn't mind. Smilax bud is a good question, but I don't see the word for it (or Lava Bud for that matter) reused in the guides I have. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:36, May 25, 2021 (EDT)

I mean, I should hope so about Metal Mario. What Mister Wu had to say there regarding Mario challenges sounds like it ought to be very persuasive to me, and the previous proposal was fairly close and had at least one confused vote. With Black Shy Guy, that's up to you. Is phase 3 what you plan to do regardless? If so, do you think phase 2 would have an easier time passing if phase 3 passed before it, or vice versa? I'd reflect on that before drafting the proposal. (An IP deserves credit for bringing up Merlar and Merlumina here.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:40, May 25, 2021 (EDT)

So..I truthfully still don't have a definitive answer for this right now. Frankly, things are at a "gridlock" here regarding the use of most post-Shogakukan guides in general, such as what happened with Kadokawa's Bowser's Fury Perfect Guide, and pre-Shogakukan guides as suggested might be in an even iffier position since they tend not to get acknowledged at all by official sites. I think someone who would have greater expertise on the subject of Japanese strategy guide history and legality needs to be consulted. For what it's worth, "Wanpaku Comics" has a Japanese Wikipedia article describing it as published by Tokuma Shoten, who also made How to Win at Super Mario Bros., and mentioning that it apparently had some developer interviews and a direct predecessor to CoroCoro Comics' Super Mario-kun. It sounds legit at least. I'll update you there if I learn more. P.S. I do have certain things in mind for the future as I have access to most of my guides now, including a few Shogakukan I've snagged like Super Mario 64 and Zelda ones, which I plan to get started on in more detail once I have a working scanner. Gonna say ahead of time that, at a glance, I don't see any mention of "Kuromame" under that name, which is really weird. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:24, March 4, 2022 (EST)

In the meantime, I do have a small update regarding Mega/Smilax (and in case you didn't see, Keronpa Ball was, consistently, Bakudan): on page 102 of the Super Mario RPG Shogakukan guide, Smilax is referred to as 「クィーンフラワー（つぼみ）」 (Queen Flower (bud)) and Megasmilax is referred to as 「クィーンフラワー（巨大化）」 (Queen Flower (giganticized)). LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:23, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

That's one way to handle it. Another connection the "bomb" may have been intended to have is with Bob-omb, which I believe share the same body texture in Super Mario 64 (and there is that theory-though I don't think it was confirmed-that the Big Bob-omb became the extra iron ball). LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:34, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

Oh, so you know those two iron balls (Big Steelies) perpetually rolling back and forth on the undeveloped ground beyond stone bridge and metal bars, the ones you can skip if you run straight ahead toward the Red Coin on the green slope? In the original Nintendo 64 version, there's suddenly a third one that appears alongside them after the first mission. One of the Bob-omb Buddies also says, "The Big Bob-omb is nothing but a big dud now!" (in the Japanese version, it's more like 'became quiet' or 'got silenced'), which could be a creative way to say he's just been defeated, but some kids back in the day took it to mean that the Big Bob-omb became one of those "dud" balls since they have similar bodies. Semi-related note: that Japanese guide with the neat clay models that was recently uploaded on Internet Archive and supposedly take down by Nintendo of America (which, eh, might've been an unauthorized publication)? It apparently said a strangely similar thing about the Whomp King's body being used to construct the rest of the fortress for the later Stars. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:20, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Megasmilax=Naval Piranha

I don't quite understand this, their JP names don't imply this and Megasmilax doesn't appear in water. Where exactly are you coming from with this? Nightwicked Bowser 19:29, May 27, 2021 (EDT)

Naval Piranha often appears outside of water too (heck it's only really "in" water in its debut, with the name being an artifact). Note Naval's JP name is just "Big Pakkun," so any later-introduced enlarged Piranha Plant following the design pattern would be derivative. It even has its own Piranha Buds with the smilaxes, which are even generically identified as buds as their Japanese name. Lava Piranha is only an outlier for not being enlarged and being based on (and outright considered as such in the language of origin) Fire Piranha Plant. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:33, May 27, 2021 (EDT)

Sorry but that doesn't make sense to me, and even seems a bit speculative. If that Piranha Plant was never related to Naval Piranha in the first place, I doubt it could suddenly become related from getting bigger. This probably could have used some discussion first before outright saying that they're all Naval Piranhas. Nightwicked Bowser 19:45, May 27, 2021 (EDT)

Same could be said about the original growing from a normal Piranha Plant's bud and Spike the Piranha (who is blatantly derived) being created from inanimate arts & crafts implements. Also, how about Fake Bowser being derived from Bowser's species despite being enchanted versions of random enemies? Besides, when it was a character page before I edited it, the species was listed as "Piranha Plant (before)<br>Big Piranha Plant (after)," which is basically the same issue. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:48, May 27, 2021 (EDT)

The Fake Bowsers are enemies turned into identical clones of Bowser, so that's probably a different matter. I wouldn't mind saying that each one resembles or is based on Naval Piranha, which as of now I just think is as far as we should go. I would like to get a general consensus on the matter. Nightwicked Bowser 16:33, May 29, 2021 (EDT)

I agree we should get community consensus on this, yes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:11, May 29, 2021 (EDT)

Unrelated note, hope you don't mind me hiding your recent revisions on the Paragoomba page since there was a vandal's spam link in them. Nightwicked Bowser 16:53, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

Unfortunate; as long as the summary stays, it's fine. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:54, May 30, 2021 (EDT)

SML

I suggest viewing the quality of Super Mario Land's page as it currently stands. A sprites section has been added to the sample gallery, and all of the manga images have been replaced with actual sprites or screenshots, including the enemy and level sections. I recommend revising your opposing vote to address any other concerns you have, or adding comments as needed, thanks. Green Star 11:11, June 5, 2021 (EDT)

I got a family reunion today, so I'll check on it once I get back. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:13, June 5, 2021 (EDT)

BradyGames' Yoshi's Island Guide

If this Ebay listing that shows the front cover of the guide is anything to go by, it's very much unofficial :p - RHG1951 (talk) 22:39, June 6, 2021 (EDT)

SMB NES Files

What do you talking about NES files? :/ I have just uploaded some Bill Blasters sprites from different games recently. User:TheRaoul1992 (talk) 15:53, June 9, 2021 (EDT)

All Night Nippon

Exactly, I had uploading this sprites, I checked the history, and nothing has changed, except the enemies and the star was renamed. User:TheRaoul1992 (talk) 16:07, June 9, 2021 (EDT)

SMRPG sprites

I looked at Recent Changes and saw that you've been adding sprites from Super Mario RPG. Do you mind if I ask where you're getting information about the frame delay and frame order for each enemy?

I've animated a very small amount of Dream Team sprites before, but those sheets were laid out with the sprite order already. I'd like to know if there's any sort of method or resource for if I want to animate more RPG sprites in the future. 0blivion 16:08, June 9, 2021 (EDT)

I'm just comparing to YouTube and repeatedly adjusting until it matches precisely. It can be a lengthy process. Using the < and > keys while paused helps, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:31, June 9, 2021 (EDT)

I see, thanks. They do look accurate, so I think you're doing well. 0blivion 16:58, June 9, 2021 (EDT)

Re: Deep Cheep

I don't know man, but they look like Deep Cheeps and they share the same filename as Deep Cheeps. I think we can make a redirect for the Deep Cheep article instead. Ray Trace^(T|C) 01:14, June 30, 2021 (EDT)

This has been discussed elsewhere. Since they don't have the "mad" eyes like other NSMBW-onward appearances and don't actually chase, the file name thing seems to be a leftover from porting the files over for editing than an actual indication as to what they're supposed to be in the finished product. Like Magmaargh in SMG2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:17, June 30, 2021 (EDT)

Fish

If we are to merge the weird ones with the Cheep Cheep per the talk page, does that mean we are gonna revisit the bubble Crayzee Dayzee? Idk, just asking. -- FanOfYoshi 16:27, July 27, 2021 (EDT)

I'd let that sit until at least an amount of time after Pisc has actively been merged. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:40, July 27, 2021 (EDT)

I guess that seems fair. -- FanOfYoshi 16:41, July 27, 2021 (EDT)

Re:Fire Bubble

You're probably right, although I do find it a little interesting that they used FireBubble for the blue ones and then LavaBubble for the red ones; you'd think they'd go with Lava Bubble the first time, especially since it's closer to Yōgan Bubble. They also didn't really have a reason to name Fire Bubble like they did since the soap bubble object has a different name (there is no plain "Bubble"), but I don't feel as strongly about it as I did before. I'll leave it up to your discretion if you feel it should be considered a color variant. Sorry for taking so long, I'm in the middle of a major move among other things. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:59, August 24, 2021 (EDT)

RE: Mantarou

I'd chalk the file name up to possibly not being able to use macrons or just a shorthand way of writing out the elongation. Regardless, it's written in the same style as a hiragana word - just in katakana - due to its origin, which we usually romanise with macrons if it's an elongated vowel. It's not two separate morphemes. The original names じろう (Jirō) and たろう (Tarō) even have katakana equivalents ジロウ and タロウ and are romanised the same regardless. Mario JC 07:29, August 25, 2021 (EDT)

More Paper Mario Bob-omb sprites

Hi. Would it be possible for you to upload the missing images in Koopa Bros. Fortress#Characters found? For reference, here is a screenshot of the missing characters. --Dine2017 (talk) 03:31, September 2, 2021 (EDT)

I may. I just get them off TSR. Here's the sheets for red, green, and blue. Red's among the enemy sheets, probably because it's used in normal Bob-omb's angry flashing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:59, September 2, 2021 (EDT)

It turns out that we have File:Bruce.png, which shares the same sprite as ordinary blue Bob-ombs. --Dine2017 (talk) 05:02, September 6, 2021 (EDT)

Ceiling Buzzy Beetles in Super Paper Mario

Hey. So, I was playing through the game dillydallying around with the enemies when I came into something strange. As I got into 5-4, I stomped on one of the ceiling Spike Tops when it got to the edge of one of the Hard Blocks using Dottie numerous times and after awhile, they were instantly defeated. I began to guess that the same thing works on regular Buzzy Beetles too, so I went to 1-4 to stomp on the one at the beginning of the second room and saw the same exact thing happen. So, yeah. I saw this happen in-game and was shocked to see that I was running into some developer oversight. Using TextEdit, it takes about ten hits for this to happen. Is there any way you could revisit these two areas, along with 5-3, so you could find this maneuver for proof that this is true?

--ThatOneUniqueToad (talk) 22:28, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

Not anytime immediate, unfortunately. I'm in the midst of a PM64 playthrough, and want to get through TTYD again before moving onto SPM. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:30, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

I can understand that. Maybe next time, perhaps...

--ThatOneUniqueToad (talk) 23:45, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

Re: Yoshi the Koopa

That's fine then, I just didn't know. I was in the process of cleaning up a lot of vandalism at the time and it did just seem like more of it. BBQ Turtle (talk) 15:58, September 19, 2021 (EDT)

"Lolcow-lizers"

Was it really necessary to use that term? Localizations that don't 100% match the original language isn't exactly idiotic, and that's the impression I'm getting from that. Nightwicked Bowser 16:29, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

Is it really necessary to get upset over a pun? I'm not in a good mood right now, sorry, my dog passed away. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:36, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

I must admit that I'm also feeling a bit drained since I just got home from a holiday, so sorry about that. Nightwicked Bowser 16:52, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

Re:Tweest

Personally, I took the Super Mario Galaxy Tweester as a derivative of some kind - in fact, I originally marked them as such after the clean-up proposal (this was before "relatives" was added to the infobox, which I would've put as an alternative). An Urchin-style revamp is possible, but I'm unsure of that since they were discontinued right afterwards. I'm pretty sure that the Mario Story name matches the Mario Party orb, but it didn't occur to me that it shared its Japanese name with Gusty. This might be a stretch, but could this be related to Gusty having a different English name that one time? Also, you're kicking butt with your recent proposals! LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:16, September 27, 2021 (EDT)

Spriters Resource

I see which you is member of The Spriters Resource. I need a big help, you could send my material, please? I tried to do this, but still this warning says You cannot submit to the site.

Donkey Kong Trilogy

• Kremlings
• DKC3 Tilesets

Donkey Kong Custons

• Kongs
• Enemies
• Animal Friends
• Bosses
• K. Rool's Mobile Island Fortress
• Tikis

ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 13:50, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

---

Oh, about the message there, you have to wait a couple days after getting an account, then you can. They do that to avoid spam. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:04, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

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I waited a couple or 3 years. Some from my material to custons, I ripped in Nintendo 64 and Wii emulator. No everyone can own a Wii emulator and pick up a moving model to become sprites. The Tiki Tong and his tower for example was complicated for me. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 16:50, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

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You should probably ask an admin on there about why you can't submit. What's your username on there? I can contact Ton about it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:46, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

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Here. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 17:48, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

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OK, I've sent the message. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:08, October 22, 2021 (EDT)

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I have the Racer's weapons to the Diddy Kong Pilot. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 20:20, October 26, 2021 (EDT)

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I created 2 sprites to the Donkey Kong Customs.

• Rockkroc
• Millstone (this sprites I will give the credit)
  • Vaati
  • Michael Peterson

PS: If the image does not appear, press again. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 14:59, November 02, 2021 (EDT)

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I've spoken with the admins about activating your account on there. You should be able to PM them too even when the account is inactive, but I could be wrong. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:15, November 2, 2021 (EDT)

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Show me the instructions how to do this? ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 19:25, November 02, 2021 (EDT)

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You'd go to the page of a user and hit the "send a private message" text. I sent a notice to Ton, and he said he'd speak about it with Petie, who I think is the domain owner. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:16, November 3, 2021 (EDT)

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I have the Castle outside to Yoshi's Island. So far I have not received anything different on my user, it remains the same. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 21:48, November 25, 2021 (EDT)

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I have the some sprites of DK: King of Swing to DK: King of Swing. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 00:38, February 26, 2022 (EDT)

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Mon, I'm not really comfortable uploading other peoples' sheets. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:48, February 26, 2022 (EST)

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It's such a pity, because you could help me. ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 16:38, February 26, 2022 (EDT)

I've already linked you to the sysop contact info. That should be enough to get your account working. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:33, February 26, 2022 (EST)

Friend request

This is probably a bit too sudden, but do you wanna be friends? I saw you're queer, seems like we have something in common :)
If you want, you can use my userbox. ☆Scarlet Pairo☆ talk 11:19, October 27, 2021 (EDT)

Hisstocrat

Given that a proposal is currently on going, do you think the female Hisstocrat, should be considered as basically how the clown jester Koopaling thing was green and purple, and the bully as blue instead of red? -- FanOfYoshi 13:20, November 1, 2021 (EDT)

Pretty much, though these are at least made clear to be separate individuals. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:46, November 1, 2021 (EDT)

Toady

So, should Kamek's Toadies should be split while Solo Toady and Green Toady (merged together rather than split for some reason) are being merged, or this should be a story for another day? -- FanOfYoshi 13:42, November 2, 2021 (EDT)

Biting Bullet + Pipe Lakitu

I thought I saw it somewhere, but I wasn't sure so I figured it'd be safe to go with what TCRF's development article said (though it weirdly enough uses the old "Biting Bullet Bill" name). Good to see my instincts were right. I also have a pet theory that the color palettes were decided later after it was decided to turn them into their own subtypes, but I don't have much to go on other than a hunch. On the topic of Yoshi's Island stuff, something else occurred to me recently. As you'll recall, there was a suggestion on the Lakitu in a Pipe (which I'm pretty sure were only named once) talk page to merge it with the regular Lakitu article, but it stalled. Maybe it's being looked at incorrectly. In Yoshi's Island, there's a similar variant of Lakitu called Aqua Lakitu, and while they don't appear in Warp Pipes per se, their Japanese name literally translates to "Pipe Jugem" and the English Super Mario World 2 and Japanese Super Mario Advance 3 guide references refer to them dwelling in sewers or pipes. That sounds a lot like Lakitu in a Pipe. The attack pattern differences can be mostly attributed to Lakitu's own behavior differences between games, with it having a different aiming mechanic and popping Spiny Eggs. The rationale would be not unlike the evolution of some enemies like Bouncing Bullet Bill or Circling/Boo Buddy/Block, which started off being considered minor unnamed variants and became its own derivatives later on. What do you think about that? Potentially shifting pipe variant discussion from a Lakitu merge into an Aqua Lakitu merge? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:52, November 13, 2021 (EST)

I'll probably try to look more into Super Mario World's pipe variant when I get a chance then. So about Volcano Lotus: Ponkey's (final?) name is probably an intentional throwback, but there's not much that can be done in terms of a parent/variant relationship now that we know of sources stating it's derivative of Lava Lotus. To be honest, from a design/mechanic perspective alone, that seems more like it, so this might even be a sort-of reverse-Bob-omb situation if you will. Just the same, I thought keeping the "comparable" things in the infobox to the most relevant subjects in terms of more precise attack behavior nuances helped more in navigation, though I did forget about Lava Lotus's original sprite - maybe, in a roundabout way, the Ponkey name was ultimately shared with Volcano Lotus as an allusion to Panser actually being the inspiration for Lava Lotus? Feel free to put that back in. There's also the matter of Wild Ptooie Piranha, which looks like it borrows both Panser's firing arc and Volcano Lotus's recharge time, and I feel it should need a talk page discussion before going beyond that. On the topic of fiery enemies, I noticed that the Super Mario Collection Shogakukan guide refers to the longer type of Fire Bar variously as 「大ファイアバー」 (32), 「ビッグファイアバー」 (63), and 「大きなファイアバー」 (86), probably among others. Now, I'm aware this could just be a guide writer making up general adjectives on the spot, but it may be worth cross-checking these with other sources at some point. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:01, November 14, 2021 (EST)

I'd give the Super Mario World Shogakukan authors a little more credit: they remember to mention some callbacks to previous games, including a reference to Mario 3's Kyodai Pukupuku as being roughly the same size as the slower Fugumannen in its description, and they seem relatively privvy to late-ish development materials given "Magnam-Killer" is the early render of Magnum Killer. Also, remember that Fishin' Boo ended up actually based on Spook's early name, Fishing Telesa, which is much more specific to a Boo (Ponkey's possible early name unfortunately happens to be among those in the -only- missing cast slide, which is too bad since it could've helped clear up a few other minor doubts). Sure, I don't see any overt mentions of Doki Doki Panic, but couple the fact that Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten (which even uses the original spelling of Suichūka) also only retains the Lava/Volcano Lotus connection while keeping Panser separate and, well, I'm sorry to say that I really think our hands are tied unless it ever turns out that another source out there says otherwise. My suggestion would be to, at best, consider the Lotuses as special relatives of Panser, at least for the time being. Mister Wu might have a book that sheds more light. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:25, November 14, 2021 (EST)

Oh, I do have an update regarding this: this was one of the things I asked of Mister Wu, and he got back with scans of Template:Media link and Template:Media link. The former simply states that Volcano Lotus is very similar to Lava Lotus and doesn't mention Panser. The latter is more interesting. It groups them together as Ponkey as you'd expect, but describes them as two different 「型」 (gata meaning type, model or style) from World and USA, which isn't a word used for the Sanbo/Pokey below. It has a variation of the World Shogakukan guide's statement of the one found in World being an aboveground "type" of Suichūka/Lava Lotus. Then it adds that the USA appearance also has a different form and walks, and finally states that both types of flowers shoot fireballs. So, I'm not sure exactly what to make of this. On one hand, it does group them together under the same name (and it would make the relation to Ponkey Packun/Wild Ptooie Piranha much more straightforward), but on the other hand, the description still somewhat segregates their finer details (e.g. it repeats that the one found in World is related to Suichūka which implies that's not true of the USA one) and that word choice seems deliberate. In a sense, it reminds me of how Spark was described in Daijiten. However, we do have other new info: between Suichūka and Ponkey is Land's Pompon Flower, and it describes it as 「親戚らしい」 (shinsekirashii, "seeming relative") of both Suichūka and Ponkey, and here, it doesn't mention which Ponkey it's talking about. It sounds inconclusive like Ragumo, so I guess this means at least that Lava Lotus and Volcano Plant can be re-added as being comparable to Pompon Flower? Could Nintendo Power's one-off claim that Lava Lotus is a relative of Piranha Plant stem from this idea? Is it worth looking into further?

On the topic of Bros. 2/USA-related things, I need a little help figuring out what happened to the Encyclopedia's Ninji. The English version labels this one as "Ninji 1" and that one as "Ninji 2", and their descriptions match those in previous manuals. However, the Japanese version labels the former as 「ハックンＢ」 and the latter as 「ハックンＡ」, and their descriptions do not line up with Doki Doki Panic material. So here it seems as though there's a rare instance of the English version (probably accidentally) -correcting- something. The problem is, since the USA artwork is not in the manual, I'm not 100% sure if the English version completely fixes the mistake or if it now has the images swapped. The fact that one of them takes the blue palette is probably a clue. Only one of them showed up with a blueish palette in the original game, right? Side note, I'm pretty shocked that I either didn't notice or entirely forgot that Ian Flynn was one of two people listed under "English Localization and Fact Checking" in the English Encyclopedia, since the article currently doesn't include the full credits. Encyclo-speed-ia suddenly makes a bit more sense, but that's another story. I may share my thoughts on that sometime. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:09, March 11, 2022 (EST)

Oh, I shared it here, but you can find the Doki Doki Panic manual at Gaming Alexandria, though the scan is weirdly unbound so you have to keep track of the page numbers as you flip through. Unfortunately, the manuals have other oddities like Bob-Omb and Autobomb appearing in spots that seemingly don't appear in the final, so given the presence of prototype/debug pictures, it may not completely be reliable for helping to pinpoint which Ninji is which. I should add that the World Ninji uses a variation of the artwork attributed to the similar 「ハックンＡ」 / "Ninji 2". I glimpsed at gameplay and yes, both types come in both colors. I guess without another reference for their Super Mario USA artwork, this is technically inconclusive for the time being. The only other thing I can think of is to analyse the screenshots accompanying the artwork in Encyclopedia rather than the manual since they're more likely to be finalized, but I'm not sure that'd receive conclusive results either. Also, funny you should ask about the gray Shyguy. It has another piece of artwork on page 27 of the Doki Doki Panic manual, so it had a concerted effort to be included it at one point. There are some Doki Doki Panic pre-release screenshots showing that the gray Shyguy existed at some point, even alongside red and pink ones (side-note, I do find it amusing that Rusty received credit for finding the gray Shyguy in the manual when I'm pretty sure I pointed it out first, albeit on another wikiEDIT: No, I must've found out from here..was never a fan of TCRF's "source" system). Notice that Tweeter, gray Beezo, Flurry and Spark appear to not be shown either, and one screenshot even seems to show the one-off red Snifit. There's a recent video (some manual translations are off like claiming that Mamu "lept from the Dream Machine" when it's more like he tweaked it, but it does contain a few things I've overlooked regarding Cobrat and Autobomb which I'll be adding shortly) that points out that Chapter 4-3 had a room with a red Shyguy, pink Shyguy, and a Tweeter in Doki Doki Panic in which the latter was removed in Super Mario Bros. 2, which looks to me like it could've been because it was a remnant of gray Shyguy. Moreover, someone also fairly recently released a video demonstrating a rediscovery of it, and while I haven't tried for it myself, it's apparently a mere Game Genie code that replaces the game's Tweeters with them. It would be worth bringing this to TCRF's attention, and asking if there's any meaning to it replacing Tweeter, such as evidence that it and the other enemies missing from the manual are among one of the last objects added to the game. You might be onto something! LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:51, March 12, 2022 (EST)

Regarding sprite palettes, I also noticed that the manual's pink Snifit sprite looks a lot like the gray Snifit, but with a pinkish hue for the white parts. Hard to tell if the gray/pink shades just came out wrong in the screenshots, though. But if the USA artist was really just referencing the manual when reinterpreting the Ninji sprites, that'd be further evidence that English Encyclopedia got it right for once. In the meantime, I did ask Mister Wu if he can look into the Land 2 Bubble eventually, since I'm frankly not sure what to add at this juncture. Maybe it's another question for TCRF? LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:08, March 13, 2022 (EDT)

Piranha Plants

So, in regards to the Frost Piranha/Ice Piranha Plant proposal, if it does pass, are you gonna do the same thing for Putrid Piranha/Poison Piranha Plant? 'Cause their names both translate to Poison Piranha despite the fact they have different Japanese names and different attacks. PrincessPeachFan (talk)

No. Same translation =/= same name and also both are listed separately by Ultimate. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:42, November 19, 2021 (EST)

RE: Debates and Proposals

If you saw a specific comment on that proposal, it already happened once that someone made a proposal and disagreed with it. I could have just reversed the order so it looks like I am supporting, but I also made another proposal to settle something and I agreed with it. I’m still learning things. OhoJeeOnFire (talk)

Is it okay?

I made an article for the Bowser Memory Koopa Troopa just because Bowser Memory Boo had it’s own article. I put all that I know about it so if you can please check it and see if it is good, I would appreciate it. Just please don’t delete it. OhoJeeOnFire (talk)

Looks good. I fixed some links 'n' such. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:59, November 19, 2021 (EST)

Moving Pages

How exactly do you move a page to a new title? I'm trying to move Mario Golf Steve's page to just Steve. Thanks in advance (PrincessPeachFan ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk))

You have to be autoconfirmed first, and to do that you need to make five edits and wait a few days. Either way, since "Steve" is currently a disambig page including a prominent developer, it should probably be discussed first. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:28, November 21, 2021 (EST)

Re:Stu and Kug

Well, TCRF says that "kug" is also referred to as "goomba" (kuribo?) in the game's actor list entries, as well as "typical enemy" and "test enemy" supposedly, but the generator drawing is almost certainly related to it in some way. Said "actor list entries" they referenced would be useful for further analysis. Which trailer are you looking at, though? The versions I find are too blurry to make heads or tails of it. On Goomba-related side note, Beanie. I notice that there's a Minion Quest medal when you "Recruit all types of Goomba Minions" - does that count the Beanies and Pestnuts, too? I think that would answer pretty definitively how to classify them. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:56, November 28, 2021 (EST)

Oh, I see. I didn't actually play the remakes myself, so I wasn't sure. Bandit's connection to Shy Guy is also interesting since there was actually confusion a while back, so I'd add a mention of that one too for the record. It may be worth checking to see sometime if Bowser Jr.'s Journey mixes things up. Anyway, Strollin' Stu: I can't discern the facial features, but it looks like it -might- at least be colored closer to the "kug" drawing. What do you suggest? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:18, November 29, 2021 (EST)

On the other hand, Galoombas are considered relatives instead of variants, and they seem somewhat more derivative of Goomba than Strollin' Stu to me. I'd leave things as is until something comes up that proves a deeper connection beyond a shadow of a doubt. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:09, November 30, 2021 (EST)

Poison water in Super Paper Mario

I remember a while ago you added information about poison water in Super Paper Mario, which I understand is referring to the water in Downtown of Crag in its contaminated state. However, during a recent playthrough of the game I tried this out and did not take damage when falling in the water; the only time I did take damage is from sinking too far, which also happens when the water is no longer contaminated. I must admit that I didn't go to the area accessible only via Dottie before completing the chapter, but I don't see how the poison water would block access to Whacka since there is a warp pipe on the surface which leads there. I'm also not sure if it's just regional differences, but I'd like to know how you got all this. Nightwicked Bowser 16:04, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Memory, TBH. I'll try again my next playthrough. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:49, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Big Monty Mole discussion

The proposal on the Big Monty Mole talk page looks like it's been resolved, but it still has the unresolved propsal on top. Is there any way to remove it? Because it's been there for a few months. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:18, December 19, 2021 (EST)

Just remove the {{talk}}. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:54, December 19, 2021 (EST)

Actually, it was a talk page proposal, so the SettledTPP and ProposalOutcome templates should've been added. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 14:28, December 19, 2021 (EST)

Yoshi's Story

Can you see if any Message Block says "Heart Coin" in Yoshi's Story (maybe in Practice Mode), and if so, what the actual quote is? Dwhitney (talk) 14:32, March 3, 2022 (EST)

I've only played the game a little bit and can't find a text dump, unfortunately. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:15, March 3, 2022 (EST)

Re:Kamezard

Well, in Super Mario RPG, Magikoopa (Kamezard) is sort of paired up with two other, new and original Koopa Troop leaders: Jagger (Nokoyang) and Goomba (Kurisienne), who leaves Bowser between Rose Way and Moleville. That can be viewed as evidence that Kamezard was supposed to be his own entity. There's also multiple ways you can look at the unused battle setups. I think it's important to note TCRF's statement here that Magikoopa is coded as a boss and so the other enemies are overrided in battle. Perhaps for early test versions of his enemy summoning spell? Consider that the unused battle formations include enemies from Bowser's Keep, not Booster's Tower, so at the point this was coded, Merlin (Kamek) seems to have been discarded as an enemy and repurposed as a demonstration sequence asset like some of the other "duplicate" enemies. Or alternatively, Merlin was the one in those unused setups, and the awkward boss battle override is because it wasn't coded as a boss, or even Kamezard was the one there but it wasn't always going to be a boss. If you'll indulge me, I have another hypothesis: I believe "Kamezard"/Magikoopa was going to be a regular enemy, and "Merlin"/Kamek was planned as the boss. The "Merlin" Magikoopa seen in both the final intro and the pre-release tower is using a varition of Kamezard's boss sprite in the overworld, which is very odd since the "Kamezard" Magikoopa uses the standard Magikoopa NPC sprite. When the enemy version of Kamezard/Magikoopa was dropped, its name was repurposed for Merlin/Kamek. That could be another reason for the unused battle formations being so incongruent - those were made when Kamezard/Magikoopa was an enemy (likely keeping the overworld sprite as a battle sprite), and for the final, it has a sort of amalgamated role. This wouldn't be the only enemy switcharoo; for example, Hippopo is found in the Factory, yet its unused Crippo variant is known as Hippopo Super in Japanese, making it unlikely that the original Hippopo was encountered so late in the game. I do have something else that can back this idea up. Remember that Magikoopa/Kamezard was a trio? There is concept art (original version) showing early relations that seemingly indicates a plot element where the invading army (led by Baba Yaga instead of Smithy?) would have corrupted residents of Mario's world by supplying them with weapons, and in it, "Kamek" is listed as one of three associated characters of the deleted hynotizing boss (I'm not sure about the translation of "grunt" since the original document uses a phrase different from the "zako" enemies below). I take it that this is suggesting the three Koopa Troop leaders were all originally supposed to be brainwashed, and this included Kamek, Shy Guy in place of Goomba, and an early Shaman wielding a cane in place of Jagger. If I'm right, the Psychopath reference was probably always intended for a boss, and is a carryover from when this boss was named Kamek. Shenanigans aside, the reference in the final Psychopath still strongly implies that he's from Yoshi's Island. The way Super Mario RPG handled species reps is fairly unique as far as the franchise is concerned; for instance, Toad/Kinopio specifically refers to a single character rather than the name of his broader species here (games don't usually allow Toad the character and Toad the species to even coexist by name), and the dialog for the main green Yoshi in this game (and Super Mario 64 later that year) suggests that he's one of the ones previously seen in Super Mario World. That said, the "graduated Toady" notion is one I hadn't heard of before, but ultimately, the current arrangement works fine for simplicity's sake. Plus, the English text by Ted Woolsey (who's also credited in the Japanese version) is seemingly translated from a not-final Japanese build, considering strangeness like names for the demo sequence enemies being mostly blanked in the Japanese version and at least one instance of unused text being used in the English version ("But this is getting ridiculous!" as the follow-up line for guards in the rain). So it's possible that the Magikoopa was referring "his child" (Bowser) in an earlier version of the Japanese script, and this was tweaked to refer to Mario late in development. The concept of “transcreation” may apply here. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:46, March 28, 2022 (EDT)

Spiked Melon Bug?

By the way, what do you make of this? LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:46, March 28, 2022 (EDT)

Re:SM64

Regarding Cap Switches in Smash, I think there's loose inspiration here, but I'm not sure if I'd class it as the same thing exactly. For one thing, the blocks they spawn are also an entirely different design (compare too their green blocks and the Metal Boxes). Second, the tips seem to refer to them as generic switches and ! Blocks. Third, the ! Blocks can form adjacently as platforms, which is something they only do in Super Mario World. And lastly, the ! Blocks remain empty for a while after being hit, unlike the Super Mario 64 ones that burst open completely. Note that Banzai Bills are a stage gimmick here, which is another thing taken from Super Mario World over Super Mario 64. Overall, I'd say the switches and blocks take more after the Super Mario World ones, despite the absence of yellow. It doesn't really fit in the ! Switch article since they're not exactly ! Switches in that game (going by symbols there), and they're much smaller than either switch as you can simply walk over them. I'd just consider them a minor enough stage gimmick that they can be covered adequately in the main stage article, unless some other info turns up. I'll have to get back to you regarding the Bomp-esques and Super Mario RPG (I do have an answer but I prefer to reconfirm a few things first since I don't have a complete text dump on hand). LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:08, April 6, 2022 (EDT)

OK, so, unfortunately, the Shogakukan guides don't have terribly specific words for them; looks like the Moving Bars tend to be kabe (wall) and the Bowser lifts tend to be ashiba (foothold) generically. Here's some food for thought: in Super Mario 64 DS, the internal object name for the yellow sliding stone in Bowser in the Dark World is KM1_DERU (prefix seems short for "Koopa Map 1"), the similar reddish object in Bower in the Sky is KM3_DERU01 (there's also a KM3_DERU02, which are those two narrow platforms shifting out of the floor with a Red Coin-topped pole between them), and Lethal Lava Land's "giant metal wall slab" (I assume you mean the wall that comes down in a triangular motion and retracts before one of the jumps in the volcano) is FM_BATTAN (not to be confused with Whomp, which is BATAN). In Whomp's Fortress, the small Moving Bar is BK_DOSSUNBAR_S and the large Moving Bar is BK_DOSSUNBAR_L (like Whomp, the Thwomp object is DOSUN), and in Tick Tock Clock, that Moving Bar is CT_MECHA05 ("mecha" being a series of object for the clock's gears). I wonder if Encyclopedia meant to be referring to it as a general element. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:23, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

Re:Pre-Megas

Ah, I touched on the same thing here. I think it's odd since Cheep Cheeps and Dry Bones in particular come in both a typical size and a big size in the same game, so I wouldn't mind putting those at least in their respective "Big" articles. There's some other odd cases, like Mega Dry Bones in Star Rush despite there apparently being no regular Dry Bones in that game, and the big Wigglers in Maple Treeway that are referred to as just "Wiggler" but then Mario Kart 7 also includes a normal-sized Wiggler character. But in general, if a given appearance comes in two sizes, I don't think it's really a stretch to put the bigger one in the "Big" article. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:23, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

That too. I think this and the big Wiggler example would be greyer areas since they may be seen retroactively. I wouldn't necessarily oppose just lumping 'em in their "Big" articles, though. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:10, April 13, 2022 (EDT)

Re:Jungle Beat

I only had access to the public Imgur scans by the "manspeed" fellow who apparently went and privated/deleted his albums except for the Daijiten images because he for some reason didn't appreciate the fact that the wiki was relying on him, but that's a whole other thing. From the Shogakukan guide scans we do still have available as article citations, however, it wouldn't seem we have the page in question. I do have its internal name, however: BananaHeliBird. Presumably, the Japanese name matches ala Banana Squid. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:10, April 13, 2022 (EDT)

Sure, I can look into that soon. By the way, I can also look into the new subjects as well, as well as objects from the Wii version (Wire Trap?). If there's a ready list, that would make it easier. As an aside, one of RMV's Zelda-related proposals passed recently (thought it'd be of interest to you, but, well, you're really not supposed to "advertise" active proposals last I checked). I am curious what you think of this, if you can help narrow down the "maybes" I mentioned, and how these articles (I presume we can tweak from TW) would be presented on this wiki. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:16, April 22, 2022 (EDT)

OK, in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (and, by extension, the New Play Control! version):
*"Bane Hana" in the original and, yes, the Barrel Cannon / Arrow Barrel object in the New Play Control! version is SpringFlower (funnily enough, this extends to its animations, e.g. eat and vomit - it seems it was just a graphical swap after all, although unlike the flowers, the barrels aren't limited to the ground).
*"Bikkuri Hana" is SurprisedFlower (not "Surprise Flower").
*"Kazabana" is WindMouth.
*"Yōsei-ban" is FairyBoard.
*"Yōsei Trampoline" is FairyTrampoline.
*The volcanic debris and meteors seem to be ShootingStar. I don't think they come in different sizes. It may be camera trickery.
In New Play Control! only:
*The log is BlockWood (texture is "Blocklog" and accompanied by related file BlockWoodBreak when broken).
*The underground seed is ItemPlant (the surface part it grows is ItemPlantHead).
*The cactus is Cactus (though its textures contain "Sapoten" instead of "Saboten" which could either be a typo or an indication it was going to go under another name).
*The skull block is Tsubushi (BlockTsubushiFooting is a related file, with similar textures but a circular engraving instead of a skull mark - it's those blocks it moves between).
*The Wire Trap / Spark-like is Biribiri (accompanied by related files BiribiriRail and BiribiriRailPoint). They look a lot like the Donkey Kong Jr. red Sparks (recolored blue) and their rails resemble the underside of three of the platforms from Mario's Hideout (albeit wavy), not to mention their beeping sound is similar to the background noise of said stage. It's probably fine where it is, but if you had to distinguish them, you can say that their rails can't be interacted with, unlike ropes/wires.
*The "checkpoint" monkey shrub is CheckPointKikkiTree and the "hint" monkey shrub is HintMessageKikkiTree (types of monkeys are separate objects, by the way).
*The Primeval Ruins stone block is BlockRock.
*I haven't found the Silver Snow Peak spiked rock. Could it be another object repurposed from the original game rather than a new one altogether?
Pig Poppo / Gale Hawg and Fire Pig Poppo indeed have added tusks, and additionally, Kiba Pig Poppo had its dark tusks brightened and Sleep Pig Poppo had its light tusks lengthened and darkened; Mini Pig Poppo and Boss Pig Poppo look to be identical. On a related note, the manual refers to beats as the points that bananas give, not the same thing as a banana itself. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:56, April 27, 2022 (EDT)

Ah, I nearly overlooked the eyeball plant that spits bananas. It's called TokkuriFlower. And sure, here are the monkeys: DanceKikki, LectureKikki, SwingKikki, ThrowKikki, TorchKikki, and their shrub is KikkiTree; as indicated, the ones added to New Play Control! are CheckPointKikki (another related file: CheckPointKikkiFlag) and bespectacled HintMessageKikki (another related file: HintMessageKikkiBoard). For reference, the model for ThrowKikki is called kikki specifically, suggesting that it's the "base" one, and they all use the texture supportkikki and mainly differ by animations. Brawl's "Party Monkey" seems to just be 「キッキ」 as well. By the way, the frozen bananas and Banana Bunches are IceBanana and IceBananaBunch - should we split them ala Frozen Coin? And yes, that's more or less my conclusion about Mega Thwomp too; Spiked Thwomp is, I think, the closest thing to "base" Thwomp in the games it appears in too, given it matches Thwimp's appearance (considered a size variant) and Mario Thwomps themselves aren't always consistent on whether they have damaging spikes. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:50, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

Re: Twitter Rare

About Kackle I had already asked them this question 4 times. But they take a long time to respond about that.

Unfortunately I lost my Twitter user.

ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 17:40, April 17, 2022 (EDT)

About Jungle Beat enemy/obstacle lists

Thing is, a lot of those obstacles you've been listing don't actually have good images for them, if they have images at all, and those "no image available" things are an eyesore. I also don't think it's necessary to have multiple images for the Gale Hawgs; even if they do look a bit different on Wii, it's an enemy list, not a gallery for Gale Hawg. 15:59, April 21, 2022 (EDT)

I'll be taking screenshots myself, this is an interim thing. Gale Hawg may end up being temporary if the designs end up being mutually exclusive between the versions. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:02, April 21, 2022 (EDT)

Re:Yoshi's Story

Cloud Blocks are always approximately block-sized. The closest to that I can think of in the Yoshi's Story assets would be the "railLift" and "jugem" objects, which use two different-sized clouds (and I see the latter comes with its own "cloud" functions so it can't be referring to that). actor_kumolift contains strings related to "Kumolift_L", "Kumolift_M", and "Kumolift_S" - large, medium, and small. It has to be those stationary platforms that float in several outdoor levels, which come in three sizes and look like ordinary clouds rather than blocky objects. The thought did occur to me that this and perhaps the Super Mario Land 2 appearance are incidentally called as such, but I don't think Cloud Lifts have had the most consistent function anyway. Now as for the Dokan Obake mix-up, I goofed, but in fairness, so does the guide. I went over this a bit with Somethingone, but the Torrential Maze level maps don't depict vines, nor are vines mentioned, though Dokan Obake are specified as the floaty things that can be used as platforms. See these two sections? The guide even claims that Dokan Obake show up there. I'll transcribe the relevant parts so you can see what I mean. The former, noted as "4" on page 47: 「この部屋へは、右側から入ったほうが安全。左から入る時は、激流がとぎれたスキにとび降り、右の壁ぎわを降りてくるといい。メロンを取ったあとはドカンオバケを足場にして脱出しよう。オバケは、いつ、どの穴から出てくるのがわからないのが難点。出てきそうな場所で、ふんばりジャンプしながら待ってみよう。」 The latter, noted as "9" on page 49: 「足場を上り、連続ふんばりジャンプとドカンオバケを使って黒ヨッシーのタマゴを取りにいこう。ドカンオバケは、ちょうどいい場所に現れてくれるとは限らない。失敗したら、ふんばりジャンプで足元をチェックしながら、激流や谷を避けて着地しよう。谷にさえ落ちなければ、何度でもチャレンジできる。」 My theory is that vines and slimes were added extremely late in development, possibly so there would be additional gimmick variety in this level. You can also see that they seemingly forgot to remove the holes that they come out of in the background in those areas. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:50, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

Here's what I got out of those transcriptions:

4; "It is safer to enter this room from the right side. If you enter from the left, jump down when the current stops, and come down along the wall on the right. After you get the melon, use the Dokan Obake as a foothold to escape. The problem with the Obake is that you never know when or which hole it will come out of. Let's wait at the place where they might come out while jumping energetically!"

9; "Climb up the scaffold and use a series of flutter jumps and the Dokan Obake to retrieve Black Yoshi's eggs. The Dokan Obake may not always appear in the right place. If you miss, fix your footing with a flutter jump and try to land avoiding rapids and ravines. As long as you don't fall into a ravine, you can try again and again."

So yea, I think your theory might be correct. Somethingone (talk) 20:04, April 28, 2022 (EDT)

On that note, if either of you can tell me what other levels have vines or similar rope-like objects, or if there are other areas with slimes, I'll see if they're mentioned in those portions of the guide as well. Also, should Ghost Stream be considered a Boo variant or relative, considering it uses the Boo laugh last I checked? LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:28, April 30, 2022 (EDT)

You think so? I don't really see it, considering the name is pretty basic (it's a ghost in a sewer pipe) and a manga artist also draws them completely differently in their respective cast rolls. But you're welcome to try a discussion on it. I'll probably stay out of that one since I don't feel strongly one way or the other. The source files don't seem to have any obvious "Dokan Obake"-named actors either. Speaking of which, do you know if the Gabon sprite is shrunken in-game, like how the Chomp was enlarged? "Daigabon" seems to be its actor, which suggests that it was supposed to be a Big/Mega Spike. This could partially explain its design change here. (Don Bongo is "Donbaba" so that can't be it.) LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:08, May 2, 2022 (EDT)

Melon Bug's name is very specific, though, whereas Dokan Obake is fairly generic. I'll have to think about it. At any rate, if all the game sprites are enlarged, the Chomp tidbit may have to be rewritten... LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:05, May 2, 2022 (EDT)

You mean the raw sprite is relatively big, or the game upscale? As for Ghost Stream, I think I'd be fine if it were listed as a variant or relative of Caged Ghost for now. By the way, I've made a discovery: within the source assets is an ActorList.lst file, and it contains an incomplete list of what looks like sprite objects prefixed by "IAM_" in English alphabetical order with most having a corresponding name in Japanese. It notes "UNUSE" objects. Notable ones include "HUMMER", "IRONBALL", "KONG16" and "KONG256" (ドンキーの絵), "PACKN3", "PAIPO", "POT" (壺オバケ(壺)), and "POTGHOST" (壺オバケ(オバケ)). The Paipo / Spiny Egg most likely got replaced with the ball or rock type of Lakitu. It lists Lakitu-related objects "JSIBU" (ジュゲムの飛沫), "JTAKI" (ジュゲムの瀧), "JUGEM" (瀧ジュゲム), and "JUGEP" (パイポジュゲム), and it doesn't note the last one as unused. It does, however, have a few more entries that seem to be unused or at least altered. "FLOWER" (フラワーコイン) seems like an altered object since the comment indicates it was a type of coin at some point. It lists "KATI_FOOT" (カチカチ君の足) and "KATI_HEAD" (カチカチ君の頭(体)), and while I'm not sure why it's two separate objects, that looks like Kachikachi-kun / Tap-Tap from Yoshi's Island. It's distinctly possible that this became the game's Tongari-kun / Spike enemy. It also has "MOOCHO1" (ム─チョ（行ってしまう）), "MOOCHO2" ( 〃 （うろうろ）), "MOOCHO3" ( 〃 （プレイヤーサーチ）), "MOOCHO4" ( 〃 （斜めに現れる）), "MOOCHO5" ( 〃 （４匹まとめて斜め出現）), and "MOOCHO6" ( 〃 （木陰）) - Snifits! Judging from the fourth and fifth behavioral variants, these may have flown like Super Mario 64 Snufits, or were another early attempt at Propeller Mūcho, and were probably replaced by Yoshi's Island Fly Guys. For some reason, Blargg has the object name "POLY" (ウンババ). If "SLIME" is Vine Slime, it was likely a test object (実験用スライム). And it lists three Chomps - "WANTHREE" (ワンワン（ヨッシーを追い掛ける。）), "WANTWO" (鎖ワンワン), and "WANWAN" (ワンワン（上から下へ）) - a Yoshi-chaser ala Shark Chomp, a traditional Chain Chomp, and possible Incoming Chomp. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:11, May 2, 2022 (EDT)

RE:Was that really necessary?

Yeah, I probably didn't need to say that. My bad. ^(T|C) 01:18, April 29, 2022 (EDT)

Spriters Resource

Does it need anything else for the administrator to let me export the sprites? My profile is here.

ChristopherPAraujo (talk) 21:36, May 1, 2022 (EDT)

Name Shenanigans

Ever had a feeling where you look at a talk page discussing merging characters based on their Japanese names and some users saying we shouldn't merge because of the English names despite going against the developer's intent (e.g. "Deep Cheep" from Super Mario Maker 2, which is a Green Cheep Cheep because of the behavior and Japanese Name: Pukupuku and not Search Pukupuku) and wonder "What is WITH these people?"PrincessPeachFan (talk) 19:49, May 29, 2022 (EDT)

I hope you're not implying people are stupid for that. It's often for many other reasons than just the name alone. Nightwicked Bowser 20:15, May 29, 2022 (EDT)

Userboxes

Is it ok if i borrow some userboxes you had at some point on your userpage? -- FanOfYoshi 14:40, June 18, 2022 (EDT)

Go right ahead. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:06, June 18, 2022 (EDT)

RE:Template creation

Yeah, me neither. After all, it was actually released as a Banjo-Kazooie series reskin. ^(T|C) 10:21, July 5, 2022 (EDT)

Nintendo Super Secrets cards

Thanks for editing the Nintendo Super Secrets page, it's the first one I've created. I also forgot that ^[sic] was a thing. Reznor got linked by accident because I searched "Rhino Dinos" instead of "Dino Rhinos" on the Mario Wiki so I could find the page and it directed me to Reznor's page. My Pet Albatross (talk) 8:35 July 11, 2022 (PST)

DKP03 file

DKP03's graphics were used in the final version, Banjo-Pilot. DKP 2003 is a prototype name and not being a final. What would you do if the original version as first iteration was officially released? Windy (talk) 22:34, July 18, 2022 (EDT)

It has a different title and cast, so regardless of its assets being repurposed, it is not truly the "same game." I did not rip it from anything specifically called Banjo-Pilot. You might as well label the Super Mario 128 screenshots as being from Pikmin. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:38, July 18, 2022 (EDT)

There was also similar examples like this one! DKP01 received an official release, DKP 2001 moved to simply DKP, and replace all files with a final build.EDIT: Eventually, you meant if the element is used in a final game with different name, it is not treated as the same game. Windy (talk) 22:46 (EDIT: 22:58), July 18, 2022 (EDT)

....That is not a coherent statement. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:47, July 18, 2022 (EDT)

Basically. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:00, July 18, 2022 (EDT)

Mario Bros. snake transparency

I'm not sure all the black in the sprite is fake, especially the part that connects the teeth to the upper lip. Now the teeth are just floating there.--Platform (talk) 00:53, July 24, 2022 (EDT)

I found a better sprite in Spriters Resource which shows the correct black.--Platform (talk) 01:13, July 24, 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for the info, but a lot of the MB sprites in this wiki have been "corrected" to make them visible like Luigi's black shirt. I guess it's impossible to tell with the snake's single unused sprite.--Platform (talk) 10:16, July 24, 2022 (EDT)

Apology

Sorry about the Bony Beetle page. I misread it as Advance 2, rather than 4. Kan Kan Mikan~ (talk) 09:48, July 27, 2022 (EDT)

Get ready…

The official Mario Portal of Nintendo Co. Ltd. (not Nintendo of America) published the English translations of its content, including the minisites with the name of the enemies. And boy, you'll either love it or have a headache. A few anticipations:

• Cheep Chomp is in Super Mario 64 and Skeeters are confirmed to be in both Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine
• the Banzai Bill is now Bomber Bill, the Bull's Eye Banzai is the Bull's Eye Bomber Bill
• yes, the ones of New Super Mario Bros. Wii are Bull's Eye Bills...
• Bowser's Brother is now Fake Bowser (blue)

and that's just the tip of the iceberg...--Mister Wu (talk) 21:25, August 12, 2022 (EDT)

On this topic, #SnufitIsSnifit -- KOOPA CON CARNE 21:35, August 12, 2022 (EDT)

The English versions won't even load on my end :x EDIT: archive.org links work, otherwise, endless buffering. What I see I for the most part consider to be a rare case of decent localization. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:12, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

Same conclusion here, most of this is decent, though it seems the SML2 stuff might be slightly in question. I do want to point out this disclaimer: "This content is an English translation of information intended for the Japanese market. The release date, price, specifications, etc. may differ from those of products released in your region." It's a bit vague, but it could apply to the enemy characters. I know there was talk about potentially bumping up web content in the list of acceptable naming sources, but I'd err on the side of caution in this case. But overall? Yeah, I think this fills in some needed gaps left by Encyclopedia. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:37, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

So just so we have it all in one place, I'm following up with points of interest:
Super Mario Bros.

• Nothing particularly noteworthy except recent spellings are in use (this is also generally consistent in other sections, for example Mini Goomba and Flame Chomp are in the Super Mario Bros. 3 section, so I'll just note exceptions)

Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels

• As Mister Wu mentioned, Bowser's Brother is labeled as "Fake Bowser (Blue)"
• The floating pink Bloober/Blooper is now "Sky Blooper" (note that Encyclopedia called it "Sky Bloober")

Super Mario Bros. 3

• Grand Goomba, Red Giant Koopa Troopa, Green Gargantua Koopa Troopa, Colossal Koopa Paratroopa, red and green Piranhacus Giganticus, and Big Bertha are respectively now known as Mega Goomba, Mega Koopa Troopa (Red), Mega Koopa Troopa (Green), Mega Koopa Paratroopa (Green), Mega Piranha Plant (Red), Mega Piranha Plant (Green), and Mega Cheep Cheep(!)
• Instead of Bloober with kids and Scattering Bloober being two types of Blooper Nanny, Bloober with kids is labeled Blooper Nanny (and Scattering Bloober is Scattering Blooper, obviously)
• Upside-down Spiny and Upside-down Buzzy Beetle
• Fire Nipper Plant is present, reconfirming Smash Ultimate
• Pile Driver Micro-Goomba labeled as "Pile-driver Micro-Goomba"

Super Mario Land

• With the exception of Piranha Plant and Upside-down Piranha Plant, everything is from the original Game Boy manual
• This also includes Chikako

Super Mario World

• A. F. H. Bro hmmm, coincidentally (or not, who even knows anymore) several Super Princess Peach enemies were just moved to their abbreviated forms...
• Climbing Koopa is confirmed
• Spike Top is "Spike top" (oddly persistent in later sections so won't note it again), and Rip Van Fish is "Rip van Fish" (or was that corrected?)
• "Koopa without a Shell" is now "Unshelled Koopa Troopa"
• The game's Goomba, Para-Goomba and Flying Goomba are now Galoomba, Paragaloomba and Parachute Galoomba (Para-bomb not mentioned)
• Fire P-Pakkun is now "Jumping Fire Piranha Plant"
• Boo Buddy Block is now Block Boo
• Generally follows in-game end-cast spelling (including "Lil Sparky"), except for the aforementioned A. F. H. Bro, unhyphenated Porcupuffer and Dino Rhino, and... Bomber Bill (which is Banzai Bill's name consistently in Mario Portal for some reason - it's not getting renamed soon, is it?)
• Does not have the then-common Cheep Cheep / Blurp mistake

Super Mario Bros. 2

• Does not contain the original ending errors
• Fryguy is Fryguy, and Shyguy and Bob-Omb are the modernized Shy Guy and Bob-omb, as expected
• Ninji A and Ninji B are the same as on the Japanese version of the site
• It's still Panser

Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins

• This may be the iffy one because out of all the sections this seems like it most falls into Encyclopedia trappings as alluded to here; most enemies are rough romanizations once again including: Unibo, Unera, Karakara, Karamenbo, Kiddokatto, Kyotonbo, Kyororo, Kurokyura, Goronto, Tatenoko, Tamara, Chikunto, Tosenbo, Dokanto, Dondon, Pikku, Bucho, Bupon, Buro, Furiko, Furizo, Bero, Honebon, Bomubomu, Poro, Minikyura, Yashichi, Ragumo, Rerere, and Wakiri
• Other things look like they could have been lifted straight out of the wiki, which include: ant, satellite, bird, collector, mechanical fist, Masked Ghoul, star(?), falling spike, screw, octopus, and sewer rat, and Tōsanbōru is "spiked ball"
• However, some parts are genuinely relocalized, giving it a sort of Super Mario Land Virtual Console treatment: Aqua Kuribō is Aqua Goomba, Terekuribō is Ghost Goomba, Toriuo is Birdfish, B Fly is Bee Fly, Bee is Beebee, Būichi is Bigbee, and Mōgyo is Moofish (which means we need another Naming example)
• Fireball Boy, however, remains from Encyclopedia (can't it at least be "Fire Boy"?)
• Shark is shark, which I guess confirms that it should be lowercase, and No.48 is spaced as "No. 48", but Bear is "bear" and Jack-in-the-Box is "Jack-in-the-box"
• Bopping Toady is Bopping Frog

Super Mario 64

• I mentioned that modern spellings and names (even Cheep Chomp) tend to be used, but I found Maw-Ray especially anachronistic
• Moneybag is the singular here
• Here we have "Small Fire Piranha Plan" and "Big Fire Piranha Plan" because their names were too large to fit (why not just cut off "Plant" entirely?)
• Snufit has snuffed it in favor of Snifit, as you're aware

Super Mario Sunshine

• Generally follows the Prima guide's names, as we've come to expect, but Sleepy Boo is Big Boo from the Perfect Guide and Gatekeeper is modern Proto Piranha
• Wind Spirit is Cyclo
• Coo Coo is Plirp
• Jumping Blooper is Bloopad
• Pokey Head instead of Pokey or Sanbo Head, and accidentally singular(?) Wire Traps
• Blue Electrokoopa, Red Electrokoopa and Huge Red Electrokoopa are Electro-Koopa (Blue), Electro-Koopa (Red) and Electro-Koopa King
• Winged Strollin' Stu and Swipin' Stu are Swipin' Stu (Blue) and Swipin' Stu (Green)
• Lava Cheep Cheep is Fire Cheep Cheep
• Swoopin' Stu seemingly confirmed to be Gooble
• Pink Boo is Block Boo and Pondskater is Skeeter
• Phantamanta still Manta here, and Mecha-Bowser is Mechakoopa

Super Mario Galaxy

• The game's Undergrunt Gunners are Water Bazooka and Electric Bazooka
• Ota Rock is Rocto
• We have the return of "Mandibug Stack" (eh)
• The game's mines are now known as Mikey Mine and Space Mine
• The game's Pokey and Big Pokey are now Pokeyplant and Pokeynut
• Skeletal Fish Guard is now Bonefin, borrowing from Kingfin's alternate "the Bonefin" moniker
• The normal and big versions of "boulder" are now Ruby Rock and Big Ruby Rock
• Jump Guarder is Sentry Garage, and Jump Beamer is Spring Vault
• Tweester is Bone Twister
• The big version of Gringill is "Giant Gringill"
• Spiny Cheep Cheep and Spring Topman reconfirmed
• The electric Jammyfish is now Jam-o'-War (both were previously called jellyfish)
• The game's Big Amp is now Zap Ball
• Fire Pressure is Fire Shooter
• Petapeta is Tracks
• Ball Beamer remains the same (English Encyclopedia previously called it "Bolt Beam", which arguably makes more sense)
• Micro Mecha-Bowser here, not Mecha-Bowser or Mechakoopa
• Mini Wanwan is Mini Chomp
• Monty is called Rocky Wrench
• The land Urchin is Ground Urchin
• Ring Beamer is Pulse Beam (which is reused from Super Mario Odyssey)
• Chomp is Chain Chomp

New Super Mario Bros. Wii

• Yep, Kamek is still Magikoopa here
• "Big Fire Piranha Plan" reappears
• Parabomb is now "Parachute Bob-omb"
• Fish Bone confirmed
• Sledge Bro has its proper name
• Bull's-Eye Bomber Bill, as mentioned

Super Mario Galaxy 2

• Returning Galaxy enemies retain their names from that section, with the exception of Small Chomp, Big Gringill, and Hot Urchin (which isn't exactly "hot" as you can burn it)
• That includes Mandibug Stack and now Whimp (so I guess we're going to treat this ala Nipper Dandelion, given we now have more than one source?)
• Electric Pressure is Zap Nozzle
• Oddly enough, it's still Mega Boo here instead of Big Boo
• Mikey Mine refers to the space version here (Encyclopedia does something similar)
• Silver Chomp is Homing Chomp
• Tongari is Spinecone
• Bee Eater is Spindleburr
• Flower Mimic is Trapdragon
• Undergrunt Gunner retains its name here

New Super Mario Bros. U

• Ice Piranha Plant is Frost Piranha!
• Magikoopa once again
• Piranha Pod reconfirmed
• Mega Grrrol confirmed
• Parachute Bob-omb again - this could be renamed

Super Mario 3D World

• Innertube Goomba and Skating Goomba confirmed
• Small Rammerhead
• "peepa" is lowercase for some reason
• It's "Ty-foo" like the Prima guide, but Hop-Chops is singular here

Super Mario Odyssey

• Not much of note except it has Urban Stingby Larva and is missing Pulse Beam at least

New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe

• Despite retaken images, the relevant contents are exactly the same as the other site, so nothing like "Big Eep Cheep" from New Super Luigi U, unfortunately

I think this fill a lot of names left in the gap caused by Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia, but I'm not sure I'd put it higher than existing English names. This might need more discussion or a proposal to decide how much of it to use. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:07, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

Saw some of those, Note how also reflecting the JP depiction, Koopa the Quick is just Koopa Troopa. Many of these are definitely helpful for my initiative, though! Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:02, August 14, 2022 (EDT)

I shared some slightly extended thoughts here. Basically I think the use of current/legacy names is something that needs to be tackled if it's decided to amend policy over this. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:08, August 21, 2022 (EDT)

Kirbified Thwomps

I mean, the behavior's down, but I think the names are a bit of a stretch. The Zelda version of Thwomps at least have Thwimps and are literally called Thwomps in Four Swords Adventures. Maybe trivia works for now? I'd put it lower priority compared to things like Spark and Boo Blah. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:07, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

Although, come to think of it, should Punc be mentioned somewhere in the Spiny article? I know its name is entirely different too, but it looks and acts extremely similar, and seems like an early replacement before Needlous. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:08, August 21, 2022 (EDT)

Also, I recently noticed that Buzzbee has an uncanny resemblance to an unnamed bee enemy from the original VS. Ice Climber, which got removed or replaced in later Ice Climber versions. The palette may be off, but it has the trademark "holding its own spear-like stinger" as well as the neck tuft and exaggerated eyebrows. Now considering that the game also has a bird enemy called Nitpicker, I'm thinking this is not a coincidence. Maybe these should be moved out of their trivia sections and incorporated fully into their articles? LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:59, August 30, 2022 (EDT)

Porcu-Boss

By the way, given that Porcupuffer is now considered a variant of Spiny Cheep Cheep, should the Super Mario Ball boss be rethought as well? LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:07, August 13, 2022 (EDT)

On Mega Boo

So I couldn't help but notice this. I know it's a distinct "maybe", but how exactly would that work without the risk of tangling the whole Kyodai/Dai/Deka/argh system? Not to mention Big Boo is especially notorious for its multiple names even for a resized enemy... LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:08, August 21, 2022 (EDT)

Huh, I never noticed that the four Boos were bigger than regular ones. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:08, August 22, 2022 (EDT)

On that note, in the event it splits based on it being a group, shouldn't the Blindfold Boo swarm from Super Princess Peach be its own article with the same logic? And how would you do this one? Anyway, I do agree with a number of those. I was thinking of making a handful of proposals soon, including a Frost/Ice Piranha one since there's enough info now. Do you want to make that one, or should I? LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:56, October 20, 2022 (EDT)

Baby Cheeps are babies kept by mouthbrooding Big Bertha / Mega Cheep Cheep though, whereas Small Cheep Cheeps are shown independently (and are adults, just made smaller), so I'm not sure how they're all that similar to the Goombas. Anyway, yep, I see them. I'll have to think about some of them, but seeing it helps visualize things for sure. Something like Yoshi, though, I thought would make more sense as a big partial merge - and potentially split notable singular media-specific appearances like Yoshi (Super Mario World television series), Yoshi (Nintendo Adventure Books), maybe Yoshi (Super Mario-kun), etc. Speaking of Yoshi, I think this is sufficient to consider Yoshi a Koopa (not 100% on the parenthesis but I think it's because it's a panel format). If not, maybe time to take it to the talk page too? LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:56, October 21, 2022 (EDT)

Not since Partners in Time (which would be its own issue since we don't know which ones they'd be considered). Also note that in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, their internal internal object name went from "EN_MAME_KURIBO" (unused) to "EN_BEANS_KURIBO" (used) yet their internal model name is "kuriboMini" (a closer translation to Chibi Kuribō), suggesting that they're interpretations of each other. Then again, you could make the argument that Chibibo is in the same boat as another small Goomba, but unlike the others, its behavior is virtually identical to normal Goombas and it was probably named that way because of the tiny Game Boy sprite. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:42, October 22, 2022 (EDT)

Super Princess Peach enemy list

What you're doing with the page is all well and good, however I just don't quite agree with sorting the enemies alphabetically and grouping them by vibe they use. For a list like that, I would still prefer listing them by order in the glossary regardless of vibe (although noting which vibe they use may be redundant), and maybe list enemies not included at the bottom or in a seperate table. Nightwicked Bowser 05:57, August 27, 2022 (EDT)

That's awkward though, especially when some of the "missing" ones are variants. I'd prefer the non-exhaustive glossary is its own table. This at least follows what we do on other games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:49, August 27, 2022 (EDT) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:48, August 27, 2022 (EDT)

Re:Party Ball

You know, they very well could be put in that article, although the design is different. By the way, Random Hoo Haas has scans of the Shogakukan guide. Only the manual items and glossary enemies are clearly listed, but since the game seems fresher in your mind, the relevant level pages could be looked at for potentially official names. They were pretty generic as I recall, but maybe some things got overlooked. LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:59, August 30, 2022 (EDT)

Just want to mention that the Wayback Machine also has the guide, except that it's upright instead of sideways. Hope that helps! ^S _o ^m _e ^t _h ⁱ _n ^g _o ⁿ _e ! 10:07, September 4, 2022 (EDT)

Tubba's Heart

I understand your point, but unlike the Skullyrex and Wiggler Segments, nothing about Tubba's Heart is visually reminiscent of the Spike species (though it shares Tubba Blubba's black and orange eyes). I'm not going to get into an edit war about it, though. Considering you're doubling down on the whole "body parts = the whole" thing with your edits to Mecha Hand and Template:Koopas, should Mario's face go in Category:Humans for consistency, as I remarked? ShootingStar7X (talk) 23:35, September 2, 2022 (EDT)

I suppose, since we don't have a category devoted to Mario as a character. And on a cellular level, both would be true. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:55, September 2, 2022 (EDT)

Didn't anticipate that to be your response, but fair enough. ShootingStar7X (talk) 00:01, September 3, 2022 (EDT)

Re:Good news

Huh. I'm glad. A little baffled, considering the Zeldapedia kerfuffle a while back...but glad. I'm not sure exactly what breaking from Fandom means in regards to their writing, but I suppose we'll just have to see. In other news, I should have access to a scanner by the end of the year, so you can expect big updates. EDIT: Also, sorry to have to thrust this upon you, but you may want to address the (rather unnecessary) comments of the recent proposal. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:56, October 20, 2022 (EDT)

I also had the impression it was a full move, but it seems to be a fork after all as Fandom's Zelda Wiki is still somewhat active. Seems like not all the members are moving with them. In any case, I wish them well in their independence. Maybe as a show of goodwill, consider adding Zeldapedia as an informal affiliate alongside Zelda Dungeon (never thought I'd suggest that but here we are)? LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:56, October 21, 2022 (EDT)

Jr Troopa final battle

Every time I play Paper Mario, he always goes straight from his normal form to flying & spiked, then to with the wand, and that's without using any power boosts or anything that uses FP (just a hammer and Watt; only time I break that rule is using Skolar when he is flying and spiked). Every Video I find on YouTube also shows him going straight to flying and spiked (even if he has about 3 HP left after one turn). So with that, I'm certain that's how the fight works and the page should definitely reflect that. Nightwicked Bowser 18:24, November 8, 2022 (EST)

Hm. Coulda sworn I'd seen him go into his eggshell at least...go ahead and change it back, I'll look into it.Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:34, November 8, 2022 (EST)

Shyster quote

I noticed you had previously changed the top quote of the Shyster page at the same time Bodygaurd was split, and incase you notice I changed it back and want to revert, I just want to say that I find the "bounce on his head" a lot more fitting for the subject itself than telling Smithy to stop shaking the floor. No reasoning was left about it at the time, but I'm assuming it was because the Bodyguards say it right before the battle with Mack, however the quote is also said by regular Shysters blocking Toadstool's Room (which might be easily missable), so it still has a place on the Shyster page (the Bodyguard page uses a different top quote too). Nightwicked Bowser 09:48, December 24, 2022 (EST)

I'd forgotten about those ones saying it. All good, then. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:54, December 24, 2022 (EST)

Re:Dodecahedron drumstick

Huh. I wonder if it's not just a texture error that was never caught because the cage obscures the model, though? The Shogakukan guide still refers to the caged smaller one with the same name as the uncaged equivalent, and both caged versions appear to be roughly the same size as their uncaged versions. On the other hand, the Prima guides only refer to them as types of "platforms" generically. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:28, January 6, 2023 (EST)

Re:Needlepoke

I could've sworn this was like the Boo Balloon/Blue Boo situation, but you're right..I'll probably change it back later. On a related note, the proposal. Come to think of it, your second choice (merging Spiked Fun Guys with Pokey) made a lot of sense too, and I was about to move to it from my third choice (merging potted with normal), but then I realized that the proposal was technically over since the votes for that option barely met the threshold. That said, it was a bit daunting in hindsight to have all those options, so if you want another crack at that, it'd probably be best to weed out all the unpopular options, ie. leave it at blanket-Pokey and Spiked Fun Guy-Pokey merges (I think that option would've had more votes if it had more attention earlier in the proposal). And by the way, should Piro Dangle be referred to as Spark for Yoshi's New Island? LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:28, January 6, 2023 (EST)

Yoshi's Island (SMW) and Yoshi's Island (YI) split

Hey, I saw your participation on the topic of splitting these two articles on the Yoshi's Island talk page and feel that you made really strong arguments. It's been a few years and nothing has been done on this subject, so I feel either you or one of the other long-standing members of the wiki should start an official proposal in order to get this done. Looking forward to your response. Yo'ster (talk) 21:58, January 22, 2023 (EST)

I really don't know if it's time yet. There's a reason I bide it if there's not enough discussion support. GRANTED, the trophy all but confirms it, but some people will try to contest that by bringing up actual mistakes other trophies have (Brawl's K. Rool being.... among the only actual mistakes, but people tend to nitpick). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:20, January 22, 2023 (EST)

I see your point, but I dunno, even without the trophy description it seems obvious they're meant to be two different places. If we're gonna say that any island with Yoshis and Yoshi's Island music/references are Yoshi's Island then Lavalava Island might as well also be Yoshi's Island, which everyone agrees isn't the case. Like BubbleRevolution said, if Yoshi's Island was called Yoster Island in SMW, we would not be having this discussion. Also, it's mainly the older Smash games with mistakes - I'm pretty sure Smash for 3DS and Wii U don't have any, as far as I know. Not to mention they're both in Smash as stages with different names in Japanese. Yo'ster (talk) 21:26, January 23, 2023 (EST)

I made a list of points both for and against the split on the talk page in an attempt to get the discussion started back up. Let me know if I can improve anything. Yo'ster (talk) 22:29, January 23, 2023 (EST)

Is it too late to make minor edits to proposals once they're submitted? Some people seem to have missed the addendum you made believe the proposal is about making a separate Yo'ster Isle article. --Yo'ster (talk) 14:52, April 21, 2023 (EDT)

Some people don't like to read before they cast. Unfortunate, I know, but it is what it is. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:40, April 21, 2023 (EDT)

Yeah, there seems to be a couple of misunderstandings in general. Oh well, there's always next time. --Yo'ster (talk) 20:32, April 21, 2023 (EDT)

Diddy Kong Racing Zippers

Although the Zipper renders are labelled on this website as being from the DS game, they appear in this (https://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/diddy-kong-racing/cover-art/gameCoverId,451132/) material from the original N64 game. (I don't know to embed links properly, sorry.)

Yours, Stone Pokey. (I also don't know how to 'signature' a user talk post, but regardless, I hope you will consider my point. As for NoClip not having Ground Zippers, it seems to show Air Zippers in Ancient Lake where there would have been Ground Zippers, which seems an odd default, but nonetheless, in lieu of a more direct image of the model being available, the Ground Zipper render should be applicable.)

I see. Preferably, they'd all be the same type of image, but I suppose in the absence of one we can use it as a placeholder. Thanks for the clarification! (also, an auto-sig is ~~~~ Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:01, February 12, 2023 (EST)

Big Boo 64

Howdy! I hope all is well. I recently uploaded this image of Big Boo from Super Mario 64 for the article's boss chart, but I realized after the fact that it is a png image carved out of a jpg screenshot. This was by accident. I was going to undo it, but I wanted to double check with you because the policy page only mentions "artwork" so I was unsure if it applies to emulated screenshots. Do you know if it does? Thanks in advance! - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:53, April 28, 2023 (EDT)

Table redesigns

I'm going to have to ask you to put the brakes on redesigning these tables and step back and rethink things. We've been getting numerous complaints in the Discord server from casual readers and editors alike about how they look on smaller screens and mobile. I've already posted some of those in other conversations but here's some screenshots posted just within the last few hours. Also worth noting is that in a comparison test of the Toadstool Tour tables, the old one holds up a lot better under pressure than the redesigned version at the same width. Please remember that visitors to the wiki do have varying screen sizes and many of them visit on mobile devices, so something that looks fine on your screen might not hold up for other visitors - another reason why horizontally designed tables are preferable, it's easier to resize the information on one character than a table that's 3-4 characters wide. A scrollbar isn't the end-all solution to these problems since you have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the table to use it, which is very inconvenient. For one thing, the practice of putting images on the sides of a character's name is going to have to stop, that's been consistently causing problems (even with scrolling) and one illustration is sufficient. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 13:32, June 5, 2023 (EDT)

Every group I've asked has been in unanimous preference of mine, but whatever then. I've been resizing the window and it has to be really small and really zoomed in before it starts screwing up. Are people zoomed in ridiculously? I also want to point out that what I am doing ultimately is making 2008-era pages consistent with newer games' pages, like Mario Strikers: Battle League. Side-scrolling can be done by scrolling while holding shift (common knowledge), or like normal scrolling on mobile. As for mobile devices, this is a major point of contention for me: I should not have to sacrifice things looking good on a computer so it looks "good" on a mobile. That results in things like the impossible-to-parse near-microscopic images, which is where I absolutely draw the line. If we need a separate layout for mobile like Wikipedia has, so be it, but this manner of sacrifice is ridiculous. I also want to point out that I am basing this off the style of the Super Mario Galaxy tables, which was recently featured in part because it looks good. But grid-style tables are objectively preferable for usage in arrays of playable characters. Now, since there seems to be some amount of dislike for the icon thing, I do want to point out that no one seems to have a problem with similar things being done with items further down the table. Perhaps a single icon and a br? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:35, June 5, 2023 (EDT)

One of the desktop screenshots shows that it's specifically not zoomed in, I don't know about the others. All I'm asking is that you put more consideration into designing these so that they play nice with smaller screens. Even with vertically-designed tables, even though I'm not much of a fan of them the old Toadstool Tour one is proof that these can work if they're built right. Regardless of your thoughts on mobile, that's just how it is, sorry. I'm sure there's plenty of wiki content that looks good on both, I haven't heard any complaints about it otherwise. I'm not sure why you're bringing up Galaxy since the issue isn't with tables themselves but how they're used, and they're mostly horizontal on that page and use smaller images anyway (so more wiggle room for scrunching). For the character icons, yeah, there's different ways to do that, on the record I'm mostly just concerned with them causing layout problems. Off the record, I don't think it's necessary to have multiple images of a character in the table. It doesn't need to go nuts, a single illustration works just fine. Personally I already find the Double Dash table to be overwhelming with the amount of images there (I'm not the only one to feel that way, pretty sure) and having extra icons for the drivers isn't helping. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 14:24, June 5, 2023 (EDT)

I just think it's useful to see how they look on select screens. Particularly on older games, those sometimes don't quite match how they look in gameplay/artwork. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:36, June 5, 2023 (EDT)

(with permission to share their comments) I just have some screencaps to show several users from the MarioWiki Discord[1][2][3][4][5] (me, patchouli, Lakituthequick (talk), NotCory (On Your Corner, In Your Corner), Ray Trace, PnnyCrygr (talk), Waluigi Time (talk), and BMfan08 taking issue with the table formatting. Transcription provided in case imgur one day doesn't cooperate and for people who have issues reading text from the screenshots

Transcriptions

[1:38 AM]patchouli: https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Golf:_Toadstool_Tour&oldid=3876641 i literally dont understand [1:38 AM]patchouli: the old table for the characters was so much better [1:41 AM]patchouli: the new one looks even shittier on mobile --- repyling to [1:46 PM][Mario]: I do think this is more legible than like the double dash table [4:51 AM]Lakituthequick: Sure but it's still the same table layout issue [4:52 AM]Lakituthequick: Plus just like that other one this table stops fitting on a screen for fairly regular screen sizes now [4:53 AM]Lakituthequick: This is a (simulated) 1280 pixels across which is a normal size for 13" laptops and probably some tablets --- [5:00 AM]On Your Corner, In Your Corner: even at 1440x900 the table still cuts off slightly [5:04 AM]On Your Corner, In Your Corner: and for some reason it won't resize to fit unless the page display area is narrower than 1234 pixels --- [6:27 AM]Ray Trace: honestly i want this trend of vertically oriented tables to stop [6:28 AM]Ray Trace: it doesn't account into different widths at all [...] [6:29 AM]PnnyCrygr: But i agree with Bloof on her statement about tables [6:29 AM]PnnyCrygr: Vertical tables are unappealing [6:29 AM]PnnyCrygr: when veewed on celpones [6:30 AM]Ray Trace: plus they're entirely unsortable [6:30 AM]Ray Trace: i might have to redesign the tables for the mario sports superstars article --- [10:02 AM]BMfan08: I tried going through all those game articles again and apparently I can see most of those tables now even on my tiny screen without the need for a scroll bar [10:03 AM]BMfan08: but I have no idea what changed [10:03 AM]BMfan08: Anyway, I'd say that (for PC users anyway) having to scroll all the way to the bottom of the table just to get the scroll bar because the fourth item is not visible is annoying [10:03 AM]Waluigi Time: nevermind found the counter to this myself, the bar only- yeah that [10:04 AM]BMfan08: I get that mobile users can just scroll with their finger, but I don't think that everyone uses MarioWiki exclusively on mobile (I sure don't) [10:05 AM]BMfan08: Speaking of mobile (I can't screenshot it for some reason), the MK:DD table is broken on mobile. I can't even see the text for Mario because that column is so small for some reason [10:06 AM]Waluigi Time: i decided to compare the tables on toadstool tour with my browser window crunched to an excessive degree [two images from the Toadstool Tour article)

Sorry if any of this comes off as harsh, but I just wanted to relay the discussion taking place for transparency's sake. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 21:39, June 6, 2023 (EDT)

Well, thanks for the honesty. For the "compromise" ones I've since done, I've shrunk my window down to cell phone size for editing to make sure it stays visible and non-broken in all layouts. Also, horizontal scrolling can actually be done with the shift key. Anyways, there should be no more issues, even if browsing on an Apple II or a Nokia. I have also been entertaining the idea of using unpadded "sub-tables" for each character to get around the sorting issue. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:38, June 7, 2023 (EDT)

In any case, can we please agree on one table first before you continue with others? We need to proceed more slowly on these. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 19:10, June 8, 2023 (EDT)

Pardon me for enjoying myself in my job as a program/ui designer, but it is hard to decide without proper experimentation. Nevertheless, I believe that I have covered all bases with the current iteration (barring some inconsistent alignment on some), so I am curious on whether there will be more support on this. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:18, June 8, 2023 (EDT)

Sorry, but I have the urge to continue and experiment. As a certified computer scientist, I just have that itch. Please forgive me, the rhythm made me do it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:25, June 9, 2023 (EDT)

Mario's Tennis tables

I can read the bios fully now, thanks for fixing that. (Though the table still looks weird, the image sizes are inconsistently squished by the widths and there's an off-looking table border under the text when it doesn't extend to the dividing bars). ^S _o ^m _e ^t _h ⁱ _n ^g _o ⁿ _e ! 16:21, June 7, 2023 (EDT)

Yeah, that's just what happens when the image size is determined by width or height and the base parameters are inconsistent; it's unavoidable. I am experimenting with nested tables to make them easier to edit, though some of the padding cannot be removed unfortunately. From what I can tell, it's still perfectly serviceable most of the time, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:34, June 7, 2023 (EDT)

Re: Flophopper and 3D Land artwork

The link from the website ceased a long time ago. --L151 19:28, June 9, 2023 (EDT)

From either of these guidebooks from this link. --L151 19:34, June 9, 2023 (EDT)

Just letting you know, and Puncher

Hi. I know that this would be redundant, but i just wanted to let you know a few years ago, my English wasn't entirely perfect, so sorry if i misinterpreted some messages.

As for the Puncher, since it has been almost a year since its proposal passed, why haven't we gotten to it yet? -- FanOfYoshi 15:31, June 11, 2023 (EDT)

Flower (grapple)

Howdy! I would like the mark the redirect link Flower (Super Mario Galaxy 2) for deletion - it leads to Flower (grapple). Would that be alright? It is still used on your project page for Yoshi and while I assume it's not a problem, I do not want to interfere with other users' projects. - Nintendo101 (talk) 10:26, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

We don't generally delete redirects except to move other pages to their spots anymore, simply because who knows how many offsite links could lead there. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:05, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Ah, I see. Good to know! - Nintendo101 (talk) 14:24, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Bison/Triceratops

The reason i made this assumption is because of the shape of their snout (or beak in that case). I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, i just interpreted what it looked like differently. -- FanOfYoshi 08:41, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

MK8DX Roster Gallery

The gallery is still displaying incorrectly on my end, even with your update. 73.171.36.107 09:43, July 12, 2023 (EDT)

How about now? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:56, July 12, 2023 (EDT)

Perfect! Thank you. 73.171.36.107 10:20, July 12, 2023 (EDT)

You are welcome. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:34, July 12, 2023 (EDT)

hi again lol. Someone removed the whitespace, so it's broken again. Would you mind adding it back, maybe with a <!-- note !--> explaining its presence? 73.171.36.107 22:41, July 14, 2023 (EDT)

Beautiful solution! Thank you! 73.171.36.107 16:10, July 15, 2023 (EDT)