MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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#{{User|7feetunder}} I'm with the "wait for the actual games to start using it" camp.
#{{User|7feetunder}} I'm with the "wait for the actual games to start using it" camp.
#{{User|Spectrogram}} Per all.
#{{User|Spectrogram}} Per all.
#{{User|Cadrega86}} Oppose until it's used in a game.


====Comments====
====Comments====

Revision as of 13:33, May 17, 2023

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Sunday, February 9th, 08:03 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games, Nintendo101 (ended December 25, 2024)
Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork, Scrooge200 (ended January 5, 2025)
Organize "List of implied" articles, EvieMaybe (ended January 12, 2025)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Split the Ink Bomb, Camwoodstock (ended January 12, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Merge the two Clawing for More articles, Salmancer (ended January 27, 2025)
Merge Dangan Mario to Invincible Mario, PrincessPeachFan (ended January 30, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Make changes to MarioWiki's editbox wallpaper

The editbox is the field where one can type their edits into. But the most overlooked cosmetic aspect of the editbox is its wallpaper thing: Those strings of character artwork located at the bottom half of the editbox. Currently, it features 2000s artwork (Luigi, Mario Sunshine with Yoshi, Princess Peach, Luigi, Mario Sunshine with Yoshi), as somehow the wiki was established in the 2000s.

The editbox's wallpaper pattern as of now looks like this:

  • Luigi Artwork - Super Mario 64 DS.png
  • Mario and Yoshi SMS.png
  • Princess Peach Artwork - Mario Party 6.png
  • Luigi Artwork - Super Mario 64 DS.png
  • Mario and Yoshi SMS.png

If changes were to be made to it, I would elaborate on these three options:

  • Give new changeable designs to the editbox wallpaper: We could implement new designs to the editbox's wallpaper. This could be changeable in Special:Preferences, under Editing. There could be countless designs: "Mario Kart", "Paper Mario", "Mario Party", "WarioWare", "Donkey Kong Country (game series)", "Wario Land", "Luigi Mansion", "Yoshi's Island", "Yoshi's Wooly/Crafted World", the list goes on and on.
  • Just update the existing wallpaper design with new Mario franchise artwork: The editbox still looks like it's from the 2000s, so maybe we can just replace the old art with the 2017-present promo arts of Mario characters.
  • Do nothing: Do not like these changes? Please feel free to state your reasons for choosing this option.

Proposer: PnnyCrygr (talk)
Deadline: May 21, 2023, 19:06 EDT

Give new changeable designs to the editbox wallpaper

  1. PnnyCrygr (talk) Per explanations above, as I would like more variety to the edit box wallpaper.

Just update the existing wallpaper design with new Mario franchise artwork

  1. Camwoodstock (talk) - Having renders from mid-2000s games that are as high quality as the mid-2000s internet would allow us to get our hands on on bold, proud display as the default, in the year 2023, feels almost comically out of date, right? Updating this to be more in-line with the site aesthetics we've grown into since implementing this is way overdue. It's not 2005 anymore (citation needed), so like, if we've updated the wiki logo and various other parts of the wiki's graphics and visuals since then, why should the thing you're forced to see whenever you edit an article--the thing we see as we write this vote and constantly revise it--be some exception? We'd like to suggest, as Koopa con Carne indirectly mentioned, the designs mentioned on the Main Page's talkpage for a potential candidate. Anything a bit more recent than renders that can literally become US Citizens in how old they are!
  2. Somethingone (talk) Thank you Camwood for clearing the purpose of this proposal up for me; per Camwood.
  3. Hewer (talk) Per all, I've thought the editing field looks bad literally ever since I first saw it so I've long awaited this change.
  4. Killer Moth (talk) Per all. Updating the renders would be the best call.
  5. Arend (talk) Per Camwoodstock. The current edit box image appears make use of low-quality JPGs of outdated artwork and might have never been updated since its inception on the wiki, so let's focus on just updating that first. While it would be real neat to have different edit box skins with specific themes for the novices which may find CSS code too advanced for them, I'm not sure if the suggested manner of having it in Special:Preferences can be easily arranged, since I don't think admins can customize that. Maybe Porplemontage (talk) could, being the wiki proprietor, but you might have to ask. So let's not get too overambitious and just stick with updating the one edit box style we have.

Do nothing

#Somethingone (talk) I really don't see how the edit box featuring artwork from the 2000s is a bad thing. Is it because they have been replaced by newer artwork? I don't see why that would be a reason to replace them for OOW cosmetic reasons, such as the background of the edit box. Also, per KCC in the comments regarding customization; if it is really an issue for someone, they can change how it looks on their own end.

Comments

Users can personalise their editing field any way they want with some HTML knowledge through a "monobook.css" user subpage. I do agree that the default editing field skin would benefit from an upgrade, but there should be some consensus on it beforehand. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:16, May 14, 2023 (EDT)

There'd have to be more to the proposed themes than just names for us to vote for changeable designs outright, but we're down to update the default if nothing else, because... well, see our statement. Also... Listen. We get it, a user can customize them on their end, so who cares about the default, right? ...But that's not to say that your average user will customize their background, or even if they know how to do that. Being real here, most people would probably just accept they don't know how to do that, and decide to grin and bear it, and slowly tune it out until it all becomes background noise anyways, just another mild eyebrow-raiser to add to the pile, another thing you just have to kind of insist someone will "get used to" whenever it comes up. Like us, we did that. Well, except that last one. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 22:13, May 14, 2023 (EDT)

Come to think of it--should this proposal pass in the favor of option 2 (just update the renders), would we have a second proposal to determine which option we change to based on a select few options (yes, likely these ones, again)? We'd assume the answer is yes, but y'know, we want to make sure all the bases are covered here. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 12:17, May 15, 2023 (EDT)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Create articles for Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix songs

My reasoning for this is simple: Our coverage policy is that levels get their own article. As a rhythm game, Mario Mix's songs are its equivalent of levels. Therefore, they should have their own article.

I think these articles would be substantial enough to justify their existence on their own, as well. Each one would have an infobox primarily made to contain information on each difficulty's note count, and the article would cover the song's origin, role in Story Mode, what occurs in the background during the song, and what elements show up in Mush Mode.

The elements in question here are the names of these articles, and whether they should cover all of the original song's Mario-series appearances (similarly to how Mario is Missing! opens up articles for landmarks that then appear in minor roles in Mario Kart Tour). I see multiple philosophies here, each with potential upsides and downsides.

  • OPTION 1: Consider them all separate songs from their source material, thereby receiving entirely separate articles covering only their Mario Mix appearances. This approach neatly sidesteps all naming issues, and it works great with Moustache, Barrel, and Gorilla, which takes from multiple songs, but it also creates situations like Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.) and Here We Go! being two separate articles. Maybe that makes sense, though, especially with our increasingly split-heavy approach to level articles.
  • OPTION 2: Consider the Mario Mix songs arrangements of the song they're based on, and give those songs articles covering all their appearances, including their Mario Mix ones with the information outlined above. (Note that Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.), Underwater Theme, Fever, and Underground Theme all already exist.) This works excellently with things like Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros. 2) and Athletic Theme (Super Mario Bros. 3, but it also results in things like Greenhorn Forest (song), having to decide on which Double Dash!! circuit to name Rollercoasting's article after, and Moustache, Barrel, and Gorilla. Most unfortunate here is the classical music - Mario Mix is most of these tracks' only relevance to the series, so it feels odd to have Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and not Underground Mozart, Overture (Carmen) instead of Garden Boogie, and especially Tritsch-Tratsch Polka instead of Always Smiling (seriously, they barely sound like each other). Maybe it wouldn't be a big deal since the Mario Mix names would all be redirects, but this still doesn't seem ideal.
  • OPTION 3: They're arrangements again, and we still cover its other appearances, but this time we use the Mario Mix names because those were the names when the songs were most mechanically relevant. The upside of this is that all the naming stuff that was awkward with option 2 disappears. The downside is that we're naming the articles for all these recurring and important songs after what this one obscure GameCube game called them once. This would rename the Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.) to Here We Go!. It doesn't seem like the right move to me.
  • OPTION 4: Articles still cover all appearances of the song, but this time we name them on a case-by-case basis. With a few exceptions, the classical songs will use their Mario Mix names since that's their only relevance to the series, while Mario songs will use their original titles and be covered in articles that also cover all the other appearances of the song. The exceptions are Moustache, Barrel, and Gorilla, which is a combination of multiple songs from the original Donkey Kong; Ms. Mowz's Song, because the name "Ms. Mowz's Theme" is close but has never been official as far as I can tell; Bowser's Castle (song), which needs the identifier for obvious reasons; and Piroli, which would use its Mario Mix name in absence of having anything better to call it. The disadvantage of this option is its lack of consistency, but it doesn't suffer from any of the awkwardness of the previous two options.

Oh, one more thing: yes, my argument for making Mario Mix song articles does also apply to the Donkey Konga series. I was originally planning on this proposal extending to those games as well, but I'm much less familiar and their situations are slightly different in many places, so I decided to just focus on Mario Mix for now.

Proposer: Ahemtoday (talk)
Deadline: May 18, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Articles cover only Mario Mix, use Mario Mix names

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) I can easily see the reasoning for this one. While I'd probably prefer option 4, this also seems like it could be the right move.
  2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal and these being the equivalent of level articles.
  3. RHG1951 (talk) After seeing the drafts, I prefer the information be handled this way.
  4. 7feetunder (talk) No reason to pretend that articles for what are essentially just random music tracks that just happened to get redone for a dancing game would exist if they didn't appear in said dancing game. As for the issue of creating "redundant" articles, I see no problem here. We should be treating these like level articles, not music articles. The logic behind this proposal is that these are this game's equivalent of levels, not that Toy Dream's background music magically becomes article-worthy because it appeared in this game. It's no more redundant than splitting DKC boss level articles from the bosses when they're pretty much interchangeable.
  5. Arend (talk) Actually yeah, 7feetunder brings up a good point I should've thought about while voting earlier: the articles should be about levels first and music second, not the other way around. Per.

Option 2: Articles cover all appearances, use original names

#Arend (talk) Second choice, see Option 4 reasons.

Option 3: Articles cover all appearances, use Mario Mix names

Option 4: Articles cover all appearances, named on case-by-case basis

  1. Ahemtoday (talk) This is my favored option. Articles like Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.) show that major enough Mario-series songs can warrant articles, and here we have a bunch of songs that are directly mechanically relevant, being the game's equivalent of levels.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) This works for us. Don't want to avoid having articles for effectively redundant tracks, but having articles for as many tracks as make sense/within reason would definitely help a lot more with coverage, especially since the tracks are fairly distinct from one another (at least, as far as we could tell; admittedly, we're not very familiar with DDR Mario Mix, but what we've seen and what we understand about it and other DDR games checks out).

#Arend (talk) I too feel like this (or Option 2) is the best option too, given that Option 1 might gives us multiple articles of themes we already have an article of, and Option 3 would give single-game song titles of remixes to the original themes that already have more well-known names. Sure, Ahemtoday's draft on Greenhorn Forest with this option isn't the best example, given the long list of appearances of the Greenhorn Forest leitmotif in Wario World, but I feel like that could be rewritten into a regular paragraph as well.

Option 5: Do not create articles

Comments

Personally, I think we should consider an attempt to list the original music for each arrangement more correctly; for instance, this table lists the original music for "Pirate Dance" being the Athletic theme of Super Mario World, yet the beginning is clearly based on the intro for Super Mario World's Ground theme; and with "Step by Step", the original music is listed as "Bonus game / Switch Palace" from Super Mario World: not only parsed with spaces as if they're two different tunes (even though they share the same music), but I believe it's also an arrangement of Vanilla Dome, also from Super Mario World, which the table fails to mention completely. "Step By Step" could also be a slower-paces arrangement of the Athletic theme instead of "Pirate Dance", the intro for "Step by Step" does sound like a mix between that and Vanilla Dome.

I don't know if the current listings were originally from Nintendo themselves or not, but I think some more thorough research may be in order for a couple of tracks. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 19:44, May 11, 2023 (EDT)

For clarification, do options 2-4 create separate pages for the music like the recurring themes in Category:Musical themes or are they included in the Mario Mix level page itself like with Gusty Garden Galaxy § Music? If it's the former, the original proposal for covering recurring themes specifies that a theme needs to appear in at least 8 unique games. - RHG1951 (talk) 11:17, May 12, 2023 (EDT)

What I was envisioning happening was: if one of those options wins, we create (as an example) the article Lots of Toys. This article has sections for both the song's appearance in Mario Party 5 as Toy Dream's theme, and its appearance in Mario Mix as Cabin Fever, which would be a redirect to that section (or simply the name of the article in option 3). I think that's the second thing. Ahemtoday (talk) 12:53, May 12, 2023 (EDT)

I'd personally prefer to see a draft of an article before I throw my hat in the ring. If I do support, I'm definitely picking option 1 - most of the tracks in Mario Mix are neither major recurring themes nor original songs ("songs" meaning they have lyrics, like Phantom of the Bwahpera), so we should be treating these like level articles, not song articles. Plus it's just awkward to be like "yeah here's an article on the music from Toy Dream even though none of the other Mario Party board themes have one; it appeared in some rhythm game so that makes it special". I am completely opposed to making song articles for the Donkey Konga games. There's no storyline or scenario behind the songs in that game, so articles on them would ultimately boil down to lyrics sheets for a bunch of random pop and rock songs. At best they warrant a list, like ones we have for the Mario cartoons. Dark BonesSig.png 09:24, May 13, 2023 (EDT)

Gotcha. I made a couple drafts for Starring Wario!: This one for option 1, and this one for option 4 (though it can be easily repurposed for options 2 and 3 with only minor changes). I chose Starring Wario mostly at random, for the record. Ahemtoday (talk) 16:57, May 13, 2023 (EDT)
...y'know, on second thought, maybe I should've chosen a different song. They wouldn't all have big weird lists like that, I swear. (Though maybe that's just a sign I needed to stretch to fill the Wario World section with halfway-worthwhile information...) Ahemtoday (talk) 19:24, May 13, 2023 (EDT)

Split major classic remakes

I was inspired by the Mario Bros. split proposal to make this proposal. Essentially, we have some remakes, like SM64/DS, the SMA series, & SMBDX split. With the Switch/3DS remake proposal, I feel like someone should do a classic remake proposal, whence why I'm doing this.

There are 3 options. Option 1 splits all major remakes. Option 2 only splits major remakes that would be in a strict definition. Option 3 is the "do nothing" option.

Proposer: SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk)
Deadline: May 19, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

  1. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) This is my perferred option.

Option 2

  1. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) I'm fine with this, though. Secondary option.

Option 3

  1. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Of course, if enough people are fine with the inconsistency, this would be fine, too. Tertiary option.
  2. Hewer (talk) This proposal is extremely vague and unclear in what it's trying to achieve and I still don't really see the point of it, so I'll oppose.
  3. Spectrogram (talk) Per Hewer, and the fact that the proposer doesn't seem to know which games would be split as well. Even if the goal of this proposal is to open a door for future splits, that door was never closed in the first place, and it's better to determine what needs to be split on a case-by-case basis.
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Spectrogram. This proposal in its current state is in this uncomfortable middle ground between being way too vague and having way too many potential ramifications. What's... What's even meant to be enacted if this passes? What articles are being effected? What does this policy mean?! It was mentioned this was apparently meant to be the prelude to determining potential articles to split in future proposals, but honestly, you need to lead with that, because we don't want to say "yeah, let's do it!" and then it turns out exactly 0 of the given games are remakes we agree should be split up, rendering everything a moot point anyways as we end up with some protocol that has an "exceptions" list that covers every possible application.
  5. Arend (talk) Per all: It is extremely unclear which articles the proposer wants to split, especially regarding Option 2 which would split major remakes that "would be in a strict definition" (and even when clarifying that it would be like how we split modern remakes on a case-by-case basis, it's still rather vague). Clarity is key for a proposal with big ramifications like this one, so the proposer should make sure to provide a list of which articles would be split under Option 1, and a list of which would be split under Option 2; yet, they didn't provide any of these lists. Even when asked, it gets totally ignored in favor of other questions. This makes Spectrogram's theory of the proposer actually having no idea what games should be split very plausible, which, for a proposal like this, is a huge problem. If you don't know what should be split for your proposal to split articles, then why bother making it? Should this proposal be tried by someone else another day, please think of the articles you want to split first, and make sure to list them when you do make the proposal.

Comments

What exactly do you mean by "classic remake" here? That's much too vague. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:48, May 12, 2023 (EDT)

What games would fall in the scope of this proposal? Spectrogram (talk) 12:51, May 12, 2023 (EDT)

What "major classic remakes" are we talking about here? Which ones "would be in a strict definition"? Are there "minor remakes" we're excluding here? Ahemtoday (talk) 12:55, May 12, 2023 (EDT)

Whoa! Already, you 3 ask this! Not being rude, of course. Now, to answer Doc's question, "classic remake" is a remake of a classic game, unlike a "modern remake" which is something like Donkey Kong Country Returns 3DS, or Tropical Freeze Switch. To answer Spectrogram's question, games like Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, and so on, would fall in the scope of this proposal. Mario Bros is not included due to there already being a passed proposal for it. To answer Ahemtoday's questions, here's my answers. 1. I'm talking about remakes of a game like Super Mario All-Stars' remakes of SMB1, TLL, 2, & 3 that are still in the articles of the OG game. 2. Strict definition would be something akin to the DKC games mentioned earlier, Luigi's Mansion 3DS, & Poochy & Yoshi's Wooly World. 3. Minor remakes would be like splitting Mario Bros. Classic from Mario Bros. Battle, or Super Mario Bros. with its' FDS version. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:57, May 12, 2023 (CST)

I think they were asking for a complete list of what articles would be split with each option. By the way, you should probably remove at least one of your votes, voting for every option is effectively the same as not voting at all. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 20:35, May 12, 2023 (EDT)

@SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) One user cannot support to every option at the same time. They should support to at most, one option. Don't click Penny PnnyCrygr User contributions 00:01, May 13, 2023 (EDT)

You can support multiple. But not all. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:26, May 13, 2023 (EDT)

I must say, this is probably the first time I've seen a proposer put their support in all options of their proposal. I don't think it's allowed to vote for every option though, because as Waluigi Time said, it's essentially like not voting at all. If every option is given a vote by the same person, it doesn't make a significant change in the standings.
Another thing: I'm really confused at what the difference between options 1 and 2 are. Option 1 is "Split all major remakes", that sounds clear enough, but Option 2 is "Only split major remakes that would be in a strict definition", and reading that, I'm like: "what would does 'in a strict definition' even mean?!" I got to ask, what games are affected with option 2, and which games are not affected? I know Ahemtoday already asked what "in a strict definition" meant and you already answered that, but I don't feel any more enlightened with the three examples you gave him. All I'm certain of is that minor remakes won't be affected by either option. Listing all games that will be or won't be affected by either option (similar to this or this) would help a lot, as Waluigi Time said. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 02:40, May 13, 2023 (EDT)

There is no rule against voting for every option on a proposal with multiple options though Spectrogram (talk) 03:09, May 13, 2023 (EDT)
There's no rule against it because it doesn't really hurt anything, but it's also pointless to do so. You can vote for every option, but you shouldn't because it accomplishes nothing. There's no difference between the current state of the proposal and if the proposer had decided not to vote at all. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 12:14, May 15, 2023 (EDT)

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! JEEZ! This is crazy! Let me try to clear more things up. Waluigi Time, PnnyCygr, Doc, & Arend have good points on voting, but I think on that matter Spectrogram sums it up perfectly. On the topic of what falls under 2, I was talking about how we split modern remakes under a case-by-case basis, option 2 would essentially be like that. It's nice to know that you understood option 1! One last thing. PnnyCygr, that at symbol thing made me get Porplemontage vibes. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:39, May 15, 2023 (CST)

So do you have a list of games that would be split if option 2 passes, or is it just meant to pave the way for future proposals? --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 12:14, May 15, 2023 (EDT)
The second one. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:42, May 15, 2023 (CST)
Look, man, we cannot really work here if we don't get any specific games that need to be split off, at least for Option 2. While I appreciate the slight clarity with the case-by-case explanation, that doesn't mean much without examples. Just give us a full list of what articles would be affected for Option 1, and a more trimmed-down list for the articles that would be affected for Option 2.
And if you can't provide such lists, then perhaps this proposal a bit undercooked. It's quite vague as it is, so you might need to take some time, think it through, etc. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 17:35, May 15, 2023 (EDT)

Fine, no one likes this. Can an admin cancel this, then? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 14:30, May 15, 2023 (CST)

If you cannot wait for an admin to veto/cancel it, you can always move your proposal from here to MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive. Make sure you reach the bottom end of the archive page (press the End key), then cut this proposal above and paste into that archive. Hope it help. Don't click Penny PnnyCrygr User contributions 09:26, May 16, 2023 (EDT)
This is incorrect.
"Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals)." Spectrogram (talk) 09:36, May 16, 2023 (EDT)
Oh. sorry about that. I thought proposals can be cancelled within any amount of time (remember my sonic character proposal?). Don't click Penny PnnyCrygr User contributions 09:42, May 16, 2023 (EDT)

Move Banzai Bill to Bomber Bill and other related species

(I made this proposal here and not on the talk page since this doesn't just affect the main Banzai Bill page but also the other species)

You may have noticed Banzai Bills are occasionally getting called "Bomber Bills" on occasion. At first, it seemed like either a strange case of censorship (regarding the LEGO sets) or a translation error (such as the English Mario Portal website). However, with The Super Mario Bros. Movie using this term now, I am heavily convinced that Bomber Bill is the new name. To explain, let me detail the history of Banzai Bill's renames.

LEGO Mario Sets
In the LEGO Super Mario sets, the Boomer Bill Barrage set includes Banzai Bills for you to add to your sets. As the set's name suggests, they are renamed "Boomer Bills". Why the name changed is unknown, but as just2good mentions in his censorship video, the word "Banzai" is a Japanese war cry. Now this rename isn't the only case of renames as they refer to Parabombs as "Parachute Bob-ombs" which has yet to appear in a mainline game or a feature-length movie. The LEGO set incident wouldn't be the best reason to rename them since it seems like it was just a LEGO thing. LEGO doesn't like to dip its toes into military themes unless it's fantasy (Star Wars), likely being a case of aiming the sets toward a family audience. And then came the English Mario Portal.

English Mario Portal
The Japanese Mario Portal website has the option to view certain elements of the page in English. The English localization on this website is intriguing, mainly because it took names from the Mario Encyclopedia, which also plagiarized the Mario Wiki. One of the odd things about it was the Banzai Bill translations. Their names are Bomber Bills. The Bull's-Eye Banzais are Bull's-Eye Bomber Bills. The Cat variation is Cat Bomber Bill. However, Gold Banzai Bill and Mad Banzai Bills are not localized yet.

Now this website isn't perfect; there are some errors and kinks in terms of translations, and at that time, the term Bomber Bill had not appeared. But what was interesting was that it was somewhat a combination of the word "bomb" and "boomer", like the LEGO sets. That is particularly strange, but it wouldn't suggest a rename. Well, that is until now.

The Super Mario Bros. Movie
Now this section will contain spoilers. If you have yet to see the movie, I strongly suggest you do. It's a decent flick and does a proper job of adapting the Mario games into a story, and it does lack some of the severe flaws in other Illumination films.




In this movie, Bowser is about to launch a giant Banzai Bill onto Peach's Castle. But here's the riveting thing; Bowser says, "Launch the Bomber Bill and DESTROY THE MUSHROOM KINGDOM!!" Woah, what?! Bowser just used the term "Bomber"! What does that mean? Well, the implications seem to be clear now. What seemed like censorship on LEGO's part or an odd translation goof on the Mario website, we now have a significant, full-length movie telling us it's a Bomber Bill. I didn't know about it until I randomly stumbled upon it on its page.

The goal of this proposal
It's pretty clear what this proposal is about: Moving Banzai Bill to Bomber Bill and making similar, relevant changes to its subspecies. The short story, the Bill has recently been referred to differently in its last few appearances. It could be possible to join Podoboo and Swooper for pointless name changes. I don't know about specific arguments people could have for keeping the old name. However, the one possible side point I could hear is that Banzai Bill is in Super Mario Maker 2, and unlike other Mario enemies, Banzai was in effect for a long time. And that is true, but the recent attempts at not calling this thing a Banzai Bill piqued my interest here.

These articles will get these renames.:

These articles will keep their names currently.:

The reasons are that they have yet to get an English translation. If they appear in future games and have the name Bomber Bills, we still call the cannons Banzai Bill Cannons if they aren't named in-game. If a new name for them comes out (like Bomber Bill Blasters), we call them that in their appearances with Bomber Bills as we did with Paragaloomba.

Proposer: Wikiboy10 (talk)
Deadline: May 24, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Wikiboy10 (talk) Per proposal and The Super Mario Bros. Movie

Oppose

  1. Arend (talk) I dunno, the name "Banzai Bill" has still been used fairly recently (like with Parabomb), and the movie is not 100% one-to-one with the games either. I'd wait until the games use "Bomber Bill" as well.
  2. Swallow (talk) I'd rather wait and see if at least one more game uses this name first, then I'll be more convinced Nintendo have settled on this as the new name.
  3. Hewer (talk) The Super Mario Bros. Movie actually has a few naming oddities like Blue Shell and Blue Mushroom, as well as calling the Tanooki Suit a Raccoon Suit. Lego Super Mario is also a bit of a stretch to use as evidence since it doesn't use Banzai Bill or Bomber Bill. Since we're yet to see this name in a source that doesn't have oddities like this, and the name "Banzai Bill" was still in use recently, I'd rather wait until the name gets used in more sources (preferably an actual game). I'll gladly support if the name ends up consistently getting used, though.
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) - Per all, we'd definitely give it at least one more instance of Bomber Bill over Banzai Bill--preferably in an actual game--before we put it to a vote. Banzai Bill was still in use as recently as Super Mario Maker 2 and Dr. Mario World in 2019, after all. also we still call lava bubbles "podoboos" out of habit
  5. 7feetunder (talk) I'm with the "wait for the actual games to start using it" camp.
  6. Spectrogram (talk) Per all.
  7. Cadrega86 (talk) Oppose until it's used in a game.

Comments

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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