MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} After some thought, I realize I can accept these terms as well.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} After some thought, I realize I can accept these terms as well.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per Wikiboy10. They are characters, not enemies, and have enough impact on the story and, more importantly, the Mario characters in it to warrant full articles.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per Wikiboy10. They are characters, not enemies, and have enough impact on the story and, more importantly, the Mario characters in it to warrant full articles.
#{{User|Mari0fan100}} Per all, especially TheFlameChomp and WikiBoy10. These articles are notable enough to be separated from each other.


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====No change====

Revision as of 19:19, September 19, 2022

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Wednesday, November 20th, 10:01 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. While only autoconfirmed users can comment on proposals, anyone is free to comment on talk page proposals.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use the {{proposal check}} tool to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks (at the earliest).
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  15. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first six days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  16. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  17. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  18. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  19. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 20, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as for proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by the additional rules below:
  3. The talk page proposal must pertain to the subject page of the talk page it is posted on.
  4. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)
Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

Remove "Koopa" and other name particles from Koopaling article titles

Starting with Mario Kart 8 on Wii U hitherto the time of this proposal, Mario games have exclusively referred to Koopalings using their first names: Larry, Ludwig, Wendy etc. These games include Paper Mario: Color Splash, Mario & Luigi games, Mario Kart Tour, Dr. Mario World, Super Smash Bros. games, and Mario & Sonic games (Rio 2016; Tokyo 2020).

The Koopaling article names on this wiki do not reflect this state of affairs: currently, they use the naming scheme established in old manuals, which is stylised by way of the word "Koopa" attached as a surname or nobiliary title of sorts. Said naming scheme has seen sparse use in more recent years, being specifically reserved to ancillary material such as the New Super Mario Bros. Wii Prima Guide, this video, and most likely more--I invite knowledgeable editors to expand this list for future reference. As dictated by the source priority policy, this material should not override what the games themselves put forward. In addition, the more concise versions of these characters' names would better serve readers and contributors alike.

Given my statement above, the object of this proposal is to simply change Koopaling articles, and most pages directly related to the individual characters, to display only their first name. The page List of DIC cartoon episodes featuring Hip Koopa is excluded from the proposal's scope, as its title reflects the character's name used in the SMB3 cartoon. The following is a list of affected pages, with target titles in brackets:

I would also like us to hash out how to phrase the opening paragraphs in their character articles; namely, whether to list the short name or the full name first. For this, I'm splitting the support option into two possible directions:

  1. "Larry, referred to in full as Larry Koopa and known as Cheatsy Koopa in the cartoons, [...]"
  2. "Larry Koopa, or simply Larry, known as Cheatsy Koopa in the cartoons, [...]"

I suppose some editors may prefer the second direction, given that it's common practice in academic and academically-modeled resources to start out an article's text with the subject's full name, and not necessarily the best known version of the name.

Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk)
Deadline: September 25, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Support (option 1)

  1. Koopa con Carne (talk) Preferred option. Can't wait to make it easier to type out the names of these roster-padding sons of bitches.
  2. Spectrogram (talk) Per con Carne's proposal :)
  3. Tails777 (talk) Honestly, either wording works for me, but could be best to roll with their first names only to match article titles.
  4. WildWario (talk) Per proposal.

Support (option 2)

Oppose

  1. Waluigi Time (talk) Per Mister Wu in the comments and the previous proposal over this. The names are still sometimes used in-game with recent examples, and this largely seems to stem from the extended names just not being used in Japan. (You could bring in the "it's closer to Japanese" argument, but I don't really like the idea of using that to decide which English names should be used.)
  2. Killer Moth (talk) Per Waluigi Time. These names are still used quite frequently and don't need to be changed.
  3. Swallow (talk) I would agree with not referring to them by the full names for games that don't use them at all, otherwise per all.

Comments

I'd like to remind yet again that in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate the full names are all acknowledged - they also were acknowledged in the Wii U version of Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games that featured the Theme of Larry Koopa. Also, please, proposal votes based on personal hatred do no good to the wiki, especially since the only multi slot roster "padding" the Koopalings did since Mario Kart 8 and its Deluxe version was in the now defunct Dr. Mario World and in Mario Kart Tour (where it's pretty bold to compare it to the actual padding of the variants). They share the slot with Bowser Jr. in the Smash Bros. games and they are guests in the Mario & Sonic games, meaning that they only occupy one slot.--Mister Wu (talk) 15:31, September 18, 2022 (EDT)

Considering the tone of my statement of disdain and the fact that I added it at the tail end of a series of arguments made in good faith, I would say that it is very clearly meant to be taken as a joke. I have no strong attachments towards any video game characters, so your accusation that I'm using "hatred" as a thrust to my argument is not only insulting, but blown out of proportion. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:10, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
Fine, I take that part back (although just so you know, fan votes have been a thing in the past, so be wary that some users did vote out of attachment to characters, meaning that jokes like this one can be misunderstood). In any case, sorry for the misunderstanding.--Mister Wu (talk) 09:14, September 19, 2022 (EDT)

I'd actually like to take this a bit further by questioning Peach and Daisy; as of right now their article names are "Princess Peach"/"Princess Daisy", but much like how very few, if any, modern games ever refer to the Koopalings by their full names, very few, if any games references Peach and Daisy by their titles in game. Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Golf, Smash Bros, they all just refer to them as Peach and Daisy. And if the fact that it's a title has anything to do with it, why isn't Bowser's article named "King Bowser"? I'd wager we could probably move their articles to just Peach and Daisy for the same reasons. Sprite of Yoshi's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Tails777 Talk to me!Sprite of Daisy's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Origami King actually does use "Princess Peach" quite a bit: for example, there's Olivia saying "My brother and Princess Peach must both be in there..." and Bowser says "Anyway, where's Princess Peach?", both in the endgame. Scrooge200 (talk) PMCS Mustard Cafe Sign.png 19:37, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
The "Princess" title is still widely in use, such as in TOK as Scrooge said and on the Play Nintendo site. It would seem that only roster-heavy spin-offs refer to them with only their personal names. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:42, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
That example does help me see the difference in this situation, mainly cause I'm comparing a title to a full name. I guess it makes sense that Peach and Daisy use their princess title cause it's a title. And it makes sense that the Koopalings don't go by their full names often cause that would literally be like going up to your best friend and using their full name just to refer to them. So from a realistic standpoint, it makes sense that games like Paper Jam or Color Splash don't just have everyone referring to them by their full names in dialogue like they would when referring to Peach as "Princess Peach" (I guess it's also worth mentioning that in Color Splash, Peach's introduction does use her full title while the Koopalings don't use their full names.) That being said, using spin-offs like Mario Kart might not be the best examples, since most characters go by their standard names anyway. Sprite of Yoshi's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Tails777 Talk to me!Sprite of Daisy's stock icon from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

@Opposition: The amount of media that refers to the Koopalings using only their first name (including, as mentioned in the proposal, almost every single game they appeared in during the last decade) far surpasses the number of instances where their full name is used. Participants to the previous proposal brought up isolated, relatively minor instances of the Koopalings' full names being used, particularly in merchandise and print media, and treated them as top-priority sources despite going counter to what the naming policy says. In the spirit of hopefully convincing people that it's misguided to do so, I raise another piece of merch, the Super Mario Trading Card Collection, released in April 2022 (so pretty recent), which respects the naming model used in games. Shouldn't it similarly be taken into consideration, and be measured against a random Larry Koopa toy and a Monopoly set? Because it's clear that merchandise releases are not consistent among themselves in the least, so why not turn to what the games already very clearly establish? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:10, September 18, 2022 (EDT)

The thing is, they're not contradictory (or even different, technically) names, and it's not even really an inconsistency. Sometimes they use the full name, other times they use a shortened version. I don't see any harm in using the full one if it's still in use. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 19:51, September 18, 2022 (EDT)

Changes

Change how RPG enemy infoboxes classify role

So for SMRPG, the Paper games, the M&L games, and M+R:KB, the bestiary infoboxes have a weird arbitrary system where name formatting (bold, italic, underline, etc.) is used to convey what type of encounter an enemy is (enemy, miniboss, major boss, boss helper). Not only is this useless without the keys at the top of each bestiary page, but plenty of enemies have multiple roles at different points that this system cannot handle, and it completely leaves out "training" battles (ie the "timed hits" Goomba from SMRPG; Bowser, Fawful, and Hammerhead Bros. in Superstar Saga; and Bowser, Jr. Troopa, Goombario, and Eldstar in Paper Mario) that occur to teach game mechanics and otherwise don't really fit with the other categories (a "boss" that cannot be lost to is hardly a boss, ditto the unwinnable Bowser in PM). What I propose is to turn this into a standard listing like everything else covered on the tables, as this solves all three problems.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: September 18, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per
  2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal.
  3. LinkTheLefty (talk) Sure.
  4. RealStuffMister (talk) per all
  5. Dine2017 (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Spectrogram (talk) per proposal
  7. Killer Moth (talk) per all
  8. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) Per proposal and Occam's Razor.

Oppose

Comments

Merging non-Mario Smash Bros. series bosses and the remaining enemies. Round 3!

Good evening!

I think this is going to be my last Smash Bros. proposal, see the other two here and also here too.

The Super Smash Bros. series has had several bosses and enemies. Most enemies have already been merged a long time ago, however, some still remain and should probably be merged as well. I also propose to merge bosses that have nothing to do with Mario (Giga Bowser and Giant Donkey Kong (the page is yet to be recreated at the time of writing this per another proposal) will be untouched). It was also previously established that cameo appearances do not justify keeping a page. Some bosses like Dracula appeared in Captain N, but it's a guest appearance, so it doesn't count. Also some bosses have quite a bit of information, but I did check how it'd look as one page and it looks alright.

As always, if I made a mistake or you want something removed/changed/added from/in this list, leave a comment and I'll change this proposal accordingly. Also feel free to comment asking for a new option to be added.

List O

The following bosses will be merged into a collective article:

Non-bosses:

Proposer: Spectrogram (talk)
Deadline: September 21, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Merge all

  1. Spectrogram (talk) Let's see how this one goes.
  2. RealStuffMister (talk) i fail to see why not
  3. LadySophie17 (talk) Yes, please.
  4. Ray Trace (talk) Personally, I don't think these characters are any more relevant than the explosives you can pick up and chock at various characters.
  5. Bazooka Mario (talk) Bosses are stuck to basically side-modes of these games. They have less of a presence to Smash Bros. than the several items.
  6. Archivist Toadette (talk) The bosses here don't really have a strong enough connection to Mario to warrant articles here.
  7. Platform (talk) Per all.
  8. 7feetunder (talk) This proposal already called for the merging of several bosses to begin with, even though nobody actually implemented it (particularly non-final Subspace Emissary bosses; the proposal was made several months before Ultimate came out). Given that and my general stance on Smash coverage, per proposal.
  9. Scrooge200 (talk) Per all.

Merge all except Crazy Hand, Dharkon, Master Hand, Master Core, Galeem, Tabuu

  1. 7feetunder (talk) Second choice.
  2. TheFlameChomp (talk) This is my second choice, as I can understand keeping these bosses due to them having a larger role than the other ones. Considering a previous proposal already called for the removal of some of the other mentioned articles, I definitely think they should be merged. Edit: I have decided that this is actually my main choice, as I do see value in keeping articles on these specific bosses.
  3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I can accept these terms.
  4. Wikiboy10 (talk) - Some people think these are just regular bosses, but hear me out. Brawl and Ultimate have plots involving the bosses, and they play a role with the characters, including the Mario characters in it. For instance, we cover the snow spirits from Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games. That game is also a crossover (though, unlike Smash, the Mario elements are much more robust). It has a story mode, and the snow spirits are characters that tie the plot together. In The Subspace Emissary, Tabuu is the one who is pulling the strings on everything in the story, and Master Hand is a secondary character in the whole thing. I feel the other ones (like Porky and the two Smash original accomplices) are a bit too minor. They don't even have fleshed-out personalities or backstories in the game. The World of Light's two main villains are indeed the ones who control the story. We know their essence as well, unlike Dracula, who only appears as a boss and has no other clear role in the story. I'm against fully merging these bosses as it seems too general to ignore the more critical boss fights. At that point, we are treating the Smash games like a guest appearance. I am also against keeping every single article, though, as not every Smash boss is vital, as I mentioned earlier.
  5. Killer Moth (talk) Second Choice. Like Doc I can accept these terms. This is a good compromise that keeps the pages for the story-relevant characters. Edit: Like TheFlameChomp I have decided to make this my first choice after further thinking about it.
  6. Somethingone (talk) Per all.
  7. Archivist Toadette (talk) After some thought, I realize I can accept these terms as well.
  8. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) Per Wikiboy10. They are characters, not enemies, and have enough impact on the story and, more importantly, the Mario characters in it to warrant full articles.
  9. Mari0fan100 (talk) Per all, especially TheFlameChomp and WikiBoy10. These articles are notable enough to be separated from each other.

No change

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Personally, I feel this is taking it a bit too far. The bosses are treated as major cast members, and with cases like Rathalos where it has every role except playable, it's just spreading one thing onto different lists.
  2. Tails777 (talk) Per Doc and Waluigi Time's comment. I'm okay with merging the Fighting Teams to Battlefield/Miis, but I kinda feel the bosses are okay on their own.
  3. Somethingone (talk) Per Doc; on these list things, I feel like I'm convinced that plot-relevant character is where I draw the line(for now at least, might make my own proposal if I change my mind). Also because the precedence of this passing would mean a list page of all the playable characters would be next and that would look even more awkward, but that's an issue for another time.

Comment

Why is Fighting Mii Team being merged with the list of Smash Run enemies? Yes, they appeared in Smash Run, but they also appeared in Classic Mode and in their own game mode in Smash Wii U. Wouldn't it make more sense to merge them with the Mii article if anything? S o m e t h i n g o n e ! Red Bandit.png 16:37, September 14, 2022 (EDT)

Good point. Done Spectrogram (talk) 16:54, September 14, 2022 (EDT)

I think false characters should be left alone since three of them are Mario-relevant. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 17:32, September 14, 2022 (EDT)

Actually I'd be fine with merging the non-bosses specifically for consistency with everything else, I'm just iffy on the bosses.S o m e t h i n g o n e ! Red Bandit.png 20:13, September 14, 2022 (EDT)

Thing is, why are we putting more stock into these characters just because they are plot relevant or that they are characters? From strictly a gameplay standpoint, I'd argue that they are less relevant to Mario as a whole than the gameplay-altering items that all got merged into one article. In fact, you could argue that the stages are less plot relevant than the bosses and should get merged, but I'd argue against merging those in that I view them with secondary enough importance after playable characters. BabyLuigiFire.pngRay Trace(T|C) 20:13, September 14, 2022 (EDT)

How are the items that were merged in any way more relevant to Mario or let alone do more gameplay-wise than the bosses? The bosses all have like >= 5 different attacks on top of their plot relevance while all the items do only one thing whenever they are used. I don't see how something like the Franklin Badge is more Mario-relevant in any sense than the bosses of the series? S o m e t h i n g o n e ! Red Bandit.png 20:53, September 14, 2022 (EDT)
Items do various numbers of things when used. Bombs are single-use, battering items grant a new set of grounded attacks, Pokeballs have many things that can happen from them. Plot in Smash Bros tends to be relegated to side mode if not nonexistent. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:42, September 14, 2022 (EDT)

I would like to add that I have no plans to make further Smash proposals, especially when it comes to fighters or regular stages. Fighters were already merged with their attacks. Spectrogram (talk) 00:58, September 15, 2022 (EDT)

Shadow Bug should have been merged with objects, since it's ultimately just a substance. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:11, September 15, 2022 (EDT)

I'll edit it, if someone disagrees, leave a comment. Spectrogram (talk) 04:19, September 15, 2022 (EDT)

Could you include an option to not split Crazy Hand, Dharkon, Master Hand, Galeem, and Tabuu? I feel since this is a crossover game, I feel we should include the plot-relevant villains in these games. The other characters I didn't mention here that are Smash originals don't really play that significant of a role. Everything else I feel is just fine to split off since they are mostly just generic mooks. Wikiboy10 (talk) 14:55, September 15, 2022 (EDT)

I disagree, but I've included it as an option. I don't think there is any reason to keep them unmerged, they're honestly the same as other bosses. Spectrogram (talk) 15:03, September 15, 2022 (EDT)
What about Master Core? Shouldn't it be included in that second option too? Dark BonesSig.png 15:13, September 15, 2022 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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