MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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<table style="background:#fefffe;color:black;-moz-border-radius:8px;border:2px solid black;padding:4px" width=100%><tr><td>
{{/Header}}
<div class="proposal">
 
<center>http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/9/9/17/f_propcopym_9045f2d.png</center>
==Writing guidelines==
<br clear="all">
===Establish a consistent table format for the "Recipes" section on ''Paper Mario'' item pages===
{| align="center" style="width: 85%; background-color: #f1f1de; border: 2px solid #996; padding: 5px; color:black"
Recently on the wiki's Discord server, the user PalaceSwitcher brought up how inconsistent the recipe tables are for ''Paper Mario'' series item pages. They even went through every page and categorized how the tables on each differ, determining that '''12''' variations exist. 12! Dreadful. Where's the <s>lamb sauce</s> consistency?!
|'''Proposals''' can be new features (such as an extension), removal of a previously added feature that has tired out, or new policies that must be approved via [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] before any action(s) are done.
 
*Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so, not, e.g., "I like this idea!"
With that said, I think it would be best if we simply come up with a new table format altogether, and then implement it onto all these pages for both consistency and better readability - this format, which will utilize normal table coding, will replace the [[Template:PM recipe list|PM recipe list template]] in use previously. Many pages are also missing recipes, and having an outline to follow will make it easier for those to be completed. Another issue with all 12 current variations that there is one big table per page, requiring another column to specify which game(s) the recipe is in. Not only does an extra game column make the table clunkier, but it's harder for a reader to spot the exact game they're looking for. Sure, there might be repeated recipes on a page, but I feel the benefits of having one table per game outweigh this possible negative. A few pages also incorporate item icons into their tables, which I think should be the case on every page because they really help with readability; by splitting by game, we can use game-specific icons (names too, actually).
*"Vote" periods last for one week.
 
*All past proposals are [[/Archive|archived]].
So, here's what I'm thinking the "Recipes" section of these pages could look like with the new table format. I'll use [[Mushroom Steak]] as an example, considering it's an item found in all three games. Note that each game will be its own subsection you can jump to on the actual pages, but doing so here could mess up the formatting of the proposal.
 
'''''Paper Mario'''''
{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
!width="75%"|Recipe
!width="25%"|Result
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]]
|rowspan=9|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak'''
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom|Dried Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items Mushroom.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items Mushroom.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items SuperShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom|Super Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items VoltShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Volt Mushroom|Volt Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom|Dried Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items SuperShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom|Super Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:PaperMario Items PotatoSalad.png|25x25px]] [[Potato Salad]]
|[[File:PaperMario Items DeluxeFeast.png|25x25px]] [[Deluxe Feast]]
|}
 
'''''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'''''
{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
!width="75%"|Recipe
!width="25%"|Result
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
|rowspan=9|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Volt Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Volt Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
|rowspan=4|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' (International)<br>[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom]] (Japan)
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
|-
|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' + [[File:Healthy Salad PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Healthy Salad]]
|[[File:Zess Deluxe PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Zess Deluxe]]
|}
 
'''''Super Paper Mario'''''
{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
!width="75%"|Recipe
!width="25%"|Result
|-
|[[File:Ultra Shroom Shake SPM.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Shroom Shake]]
|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak'''
|-
|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:Gorgeous Steak SPM.png|25x25px]] [[Gorgeous Steak]]
|rowspan=2|[[File:Dyllis Deluxe SPM.png|25x25px]] [[Dyllis Deluxe]]
|-
|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:Roast Shroom Dish SPM.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom Roast|Roast Shroom Dish]]
|}
|}
A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code <nowiki>{{user|</nowiki>''User name''<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. '''Signing with the signature code <nowiki>~~~(~)</nowiki> is not allowed''' due to technical issues.


<h2 style="color:black">How To</h2>
Feel free to leave any ideas you have for the new table outline in the comments! At the time of posting the proposal, I'm unsure how to make the tables the same width for all three games - let me know if that's possible to do and if that's even something we should bother doing.
#Actions that users feel are appropriate to have community approval first can be added by anyone, but they must have a strong argument.
 
#Users then vote and discuss on the issue during that week. The "deadline" for the proposal is one week from posting at:
'''Proposer''': {{User|Technetium}}<br>
##Monday to Thursday: 17:00 (5pm)
'''Deadline''': January 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT
##Friday and Saturday: 20:00 (8pm)
##Sunday: 15:00 (3pm)
#Every vote should have a reason accompanying it.
#At any time a vote may be rejected if at least '''three''' active users believe the vote truly has no merit or was cast in bad faith. However, there must be strong reasons supporting the invalidation.
#"<nowiki>#&nbsp;</nowiki>" should be added under the last vote of each support/oppose section to show another blank line.
#Any proposal that has three votes or less at deadline will automatically be listed as "[[Wikipedia:Quorum|NO QUORUM]]." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
#All proposals are archived. The original proposer must '''''take action''''' accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of a sysop, the proposer can ask for that help.
#There are two topics that cannot be decided on through a proposal: the first is sysop promotions and demotions, which are decided by [[MarioWiki:Bureaucrats|Bureaucrats]].  Secondly, no proposals calling for the creation of Banjo, Conker or Sonic series articles are allowed (several proposals supporting them have failed in recent history).


The times are in EDT, and are set so that the user is more likely to be online at those times (after work/school, weekend nights). If a proposal is added on Saturday night at 11:59 PM EDT, the deadline is the next Saturday night at 8:00 PM. If it is a minute later, the deadline is a day plus 15 hours (Sunday), as opposed to a day minus 4 hours.
====MasterChef (Support)====
#{{User|Technetium}} As <s>Gordon Ramsay</s> proposer.
#{{User|PaperSplash}} Per proposer.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - THANK YOU. Unshrink the icons and this'd be perfect, but this is a good start.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - This is so thoroughly overdue. Per proposal!
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} - This works better than my solution.


__TOC__
====It's RAW! (Oppose)====


<center><span style="font-size:200%">CURRENTLY: '''{{LOCALTIME}}, {{LOCALDAY}} {{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALYEAR}} (EDT)'''</span></center>
====Cooking Comments====
{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} What size do you think the icons should be? I just did 25x25px since that's what they are on the [[Shooting Star (item)|Shooting Star]] page, one of the only pages to currently use icons. Feel free to make an example table here. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 21:05, December 31, 2024 (EST)
:I think that except for the TTYD remake, they should ideally just be their native size. Aside from the aforementioned remake, none get big enough for that to be an issue. (At the very least, the image links should work, because in the current setup, clicking on the icon does diddly-squat when it logically should do what clicking on an image would normally do.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:59, December 31, 2024 (EST)
::I would prefer for all the icons to be the same size if possible. When at native size besides the TTYD remake, they look like this next to each other:
::[[File:PaperMario Items ShootingStar.png]] [[File:Shooting Star PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[File:Shooting Star SPM.png]]
::As for the links, I didn't include them because it felt redundant when the page links are right next to them too (and the Shooting Star page didn't have them). If people disagree, I'd totally add links, though - let me know. There still wouldn't be a link to the item a page is about, as you could imagine. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:18, December 31, 2024 (EST)
:::When I click on a sprite I ''generally'' want to go to the image file page. Granted, I have used images to link to pages on rare occasions to match in-game formatting, but linking nowhere is just a waste - especially when it's shrunk, so you can't copy it to your computer's clipboard without it being compressed. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:21, December 31, 2024 (EST)
::::Ah, I assumed you meant linking to the item's page, not the file link. That makes more sense. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:22, December 31, 2024 (EST)
:::::{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
!width="75%"|Recipe
!width="25%"|Result
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]]
|rowspan=3|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png]] '''Shroom Steak'''
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png]] [[Dried Mushroom|Dried Shroom]]
|-
|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items Mushroom.png]] [[Mushroom]]
|}
:::::{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
!width="75%"|Recipe
!width="25%"|Result
|-
|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
|rowspan=3|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
|-
|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
|}
:::::{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
!width="75%"|Recipe
!width="25%"|Result
|-
|[[File:Ultra Shroom Shake SPM.png]] [[Ultra Shroom Shake]]
|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png]] '''Shroom Steak'''
|-
|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:Gorgeous Steak SPM.png]] [[Gorgeous Steak]]
|rowspan=2|[[File:Dyllis Deluxe SPM.png]] [[Dyllis Deluxe]]
|-
|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:Roast Shroom Dish SPM.png]] [[Mushroom Roast|Roast Shroom Dish]]
|}
:::::Here are some tables with native sized icons (besides TTYD). Yeah, it does make SPM stand out more, though each game will be a separate subsection... and maybe TTYD could be made a bit larger? What do you guys think? I still prefer how they look in the proposal proper, though maybe those icons could be made a bit bigger (don't know if that would mess up the quality of the PM64 sprites, though...) [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:36, December 31, 2024 (EST)


==New Features==
==New features==
''None at the Moment''
===Create a template to direct the user to a game section on the corresponding List of profiles and statistics page===
This proposal aims to create a template that directs people to a game section on a Profiles and statistics list page, saving the user the step of having to scroll for it themselves. The reason why I'm proposing this is because as more ''Super Mario'' games are released, it becomes harder to comfortably find what you're searching for in the corresponding List of profiles and statistics page, especially for [[Mario]], [[Bowser]], and many other recurring subjects.


==Removals==
Another reason I think this would be valid is because of the fact that listing statistics in prose (e.g. 2/10 or 2 out of 10) looks off, especially if that can already be seen in the corresponding statistics box; in that case, the prose could change from "2/10" to something more vague like "very low stat", which isn't typically worded as such in the statistics box.
''None at the moment.


==Splits & Merges==
For example, let's say for [[Luigi]] in his appearance in ''[[Mario Sports Superstars]]'', there could be a disclaimer either below the section heading or in a box to the side (we can decide the specifics when the proposal passes) that informs the reader that there's corresponding section that shows his profiles/statistics corresponding. Like such:
===''Smash Bros.'' Moves===
In light of recent applications of our [[MarioWiki:Importance Policy|importance policy]], many users would like to see minor ''[[Super Smash Bros. (series)|Super Smash Bros.]]'' subjects merged.  One such suggestion has been to merge the special moves with the characters’ pages.  For example, [[Hand Grenade]], [[Remote Controlled Missile]], [[Cypher]], [[C4]], and [[Grenade Launcher]] would be merged with [[Solid Snake]].


This merge would decrease the emphasis placed '''Smash Bros.''' while still retaining all ''Super Smash Bros.'' content.  If this proposal passes, the following assurances are granted (1) ALL content from a special move page must be transferred to its respective character page BEFORE the special move page is blanked.  This includes pictures. (2) ALL special move pages affected will become redirects to their appropriate section in their characters' articles.  In other words, you will still be able to easily look up each special move.  It will simply no longer have its own page. (3) The [[Super Smash Bros. Special Moves|''Super Smash Bros.'' Special Moves]] page will still be in place.
:''For profiles and statistics of Luigi in Mario Sports Superstars, see [[List of Luigi profiles and statistics#Mario Sports Superstars|here]].''


If you would like an example of how this would look, please see [[User:Stumpers/Test|here]].  Please note how the image templates and stub templates carried over.  Trophy information when applicable has now been moved down to the larger trophy information section.  The only real change is that images have been made smaller.  For the purpose of example, I have including the SSB Moves template at the bottom of the section.  Unless people really want it to be there, when/if I merge the moves, I will not be including the template.  Let me know.
The above message is not necessarily the final result (just a given example), but the disclaimer would definitely point the user to the appropriate game section on the profiles and statistics list page, should this pass.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Stumpers}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' 17:00, October 2, 2008
'''Deadline''': January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Stumpers}} - Per myself above.  This merge will retain all information about the Smash Bros. series, but it will present it in a way that will not give unequal attention to the ''Smash Bros.'' series over other cross-overs.  We need to either follow the importance policy by measures such as the one described in the proposal or we need to modify the importance policy.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.
#{{User|Uniju :D}} - I completely agree with Stumpers.
#{{User|Hewer}} I don't really see a need to deliberately make prose less specific, but otherwise I like this idea, per proposal.
#{{User|R.O.B 128}} - You have my full support on this incentive. It's about time this happened.
#[[User: Booster|Booster]] - I'm all for this. From what I gather, moves pertaining to Mario characters will be merged as well, yes?
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - This is a great idea. The wiki needs a little less focus on the SSB series, and some more on the Mario series; I don't want anything to drastic to be changed, so this seems like just the right way to do things.
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}} - Per all.
#{{User|Cobold}} - I suggested this ages ago. I didn't want to create a proposal after the debate didn't work out. This step should be all right to put some weight onto the Importance Policy, it was only a theory before.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====


====Comment====
====Comments====
Just a question to those responsible for the random quote generator: many Final Smash articles include quotes from Masahiro Sakurai. Will we need to remove these in the event that the character page has a quote at the top?  Alternatively, we could merge quotes into the actual text, like so: In his Super Smash Bros. Dojo! entry for Peach Blossom, Masahiro comments, "[insert quote here]." {{User|Stumpers}}
{{@|Hewer}} I don't think this would necessarily eliminate cases in which statistics are in prose, but it may be redundant if there's the link to conveniently access the statistics or profiles. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:15, December 18, 2024 (EST)
 
===Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork===
This proposal will address the bloat some image categories have and make them easier to navigate.
 
Why is this useful? It makes adding to galleries or finding images to replace much easier. If you want to retake screenshots from a game, you can go to the screenshots category to find them. If you have sprite rips to replace, there's a category for that. The same goes for finding images from a game that aren't on the gallery already and being able to sort them more efficiently. This is also how we divide up character galleries already, such as [[Gallery:Mario (2010-2019)]].


Booster: It does also apply to Mario characters. {{User|Stumpers}} 23:19, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
Now, I can see a few edge cases, like when games have screenshots of themselves for credits images (i.e. ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)]]''). I would still classify these as assets, since they are ripped from the game. Artwork that is used in smaller forms in-game, such as in ''[[Super Mario Maker 2]]'', would be classified as artwork if externally released or an asset if it was ripped from the game files. Edge cases shouldn't be too common and they're easy to work out: it's not too different from how we license images or put them in character or subject galleries.
:About your first comment, you could just use {{tem|LLquote}} {{User|Stooben Rooben}} 23:41, 25 September 2008 (EDT)


===''New Super Mario Bros.'' Level Articles===
I think the name "assets" would be more useful in shorthand than "sprites and models," in addition to covering textures, so I propose for the category to be called that, but I can change it if there's opposition. The global images category can still exist in the case there's scans, merchandise, video screenshots, or such images that cannot be further categorized.
Looking through the site, I noticed we have some articles on each level of ''[[New Super Mario Bros.]]''. I'm not exactly sure why. The levels of ''Super Mario Bros'', ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', ''The Lost Levels'', etcetera, are all merged with their respective world article. (Ex: World 1-1 (SMB) is non-existent because it is already in [[World 1 (SMB)]]). So here's my proposal: merge the NSMB level articles with their respective world articles, just as we have done with the aforementioned articles.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Stooben Rooben}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Scrooge200}}<br>
'''Deadline''': 17:00, October 2, 2008
'''Deadline''': January 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Merge====
====Support====
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per my statement above.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}} - Per St00by.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I support this in principle, as long as there's room for discretion on what gets split and what gets left alone. A game with only ten or so pieces of artwork doesn't need a separate category for them, they can just stay in the main images category for that game. Otherwise, this seems useful, I just don't want users to go overboard by purely following the letter of this proposal.
#{{User|The Dark Doggy 2}} - There's no back story or info or even a name for ''NSMB'' levels except that what their theme is (eg forest or snow), and who will go to ''Mario Wiki'' to find that out?
#{{User|Salmancer}} I've tried to see if an image I wanted to use was already uploaded via the category, which would encourage me to make the text and get the article up. Due to the sheer number of images, this is a bad idea. This proposal will make that less of a bad idea for cases where an asset or artwork is being searched for.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} hell yea
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per proposal, as long as Waluigi Time's feedback is taken on board.


====Keep Separate====
====Oppose====
#{{user|Time Q}}: What makes a level article-worthy? ''[[Super Mario World]]'' levels all get articles (which I think is good), so why not do the same for ''NSMB'', ''SMB'', etc.? The only difference here is that they don't have proper names, but most ''SMW'' level names only consist of the world name and a number as well. Levels definitely have enough content to write about in separate articles, so IMO we should allow level articles for any game.
#{{user|Bob-omb buddy}}-Per Time Q,and I have found that merging levels loses info.


====Comments====
====Comments====
'''Time Q''': I do see your point, and I actually expected someone to point this out. The reason why I didn't propose that SMW levels get merged, is because they do consist of more that solely numbers. Ex: SMB, SMB2, SMB3, TLL, YI, YIDS, NSMB, SPP, and probably a few others each have levels titled "World 1-1", or "World 2-1", etcetera. SMW does actually name their levels, albeit some of the names are less "wordy" than others. But, SMW has levels with titles like "Awesome", "Gnarly", and even "Yoshi's Island 2". While the all games have official level names (even if they are just a sequence of numbers), SMW is the only one to give their levels more original names. If we were to separate every "World 1-1", "World 1-2", "World 1-3", and so on into their own articles, we would have at least 32 disambiguation pages with the aforementioned titles. So, in this aspect, I find merging the NSMB level articles to their respective world articles makes navigation all-the-more easier. {{User|Stooben Rooben}} 02:29, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
This is already being done (e.g. [[:Category:Mario Kart Tour item icons]]). [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 11:02, December 23, 2024 (EST)
:You've got a point here, but I don't think navigation would be that much of a problem. How would having disambiguation pages make navigation more difficult? I'm still all for putting brief level summaries into their respective world articles (and linking to the actual level articles). The only thing that separates the "article-worthiness" of ''NSMB'' levels from the "article-worthiness" of ''SMW'' levels is that the former do not get names. But we have a lot of articles about things that don't have (official) names. {{user|Time Q}}


How is there a disambig,And dosent every one of the pages list the levels at the end of the page?{{user|Bob-omb buddy}}
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''


==Changes==
==Changes==
===Wiki Appearance: Light Red===
===Decide what to do with Template:Move infobox===
Alright folks, I guess I did get a little too bold in giving you too many options on changing on something that has stayed constant for our 3+ years - our skin. Well, I took all things into consideration, including the Encyclopedia feedback section, and I think I came up with a winner. Hopefully. :P
A while ago (November 4th, specifically), I created [[Template:Move infobox]]. After all, we had templates for essentially all the Browse tabs on the wiki sidebar, except for moves. There WERE templates about specific types of moves, such as [[Template:M&L attack infobox]], but no general template in the same vein as items, characters, species, games, locations, etc.  


[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Kimi12715/MarioWiki/mainwikiscreenshot1.png Screenshot 1], [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Kimi12715/MarioWiki/mainwikiscreenshot2.png Screenshot 2]
I discussed it on the Discord briefly, nobody said no, and a bit of feedback later about how it should look and what it should have, I created it. It has since been applied to exactly four pages at the time of writing, half of which I was the one to apply it to. In hindsight, this could've used with a proposal instead of me just making it, so here's a belated one.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Kimi12715/MarioWiki/mainwikibanner.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Kimi12715/MarioWiki/mainwikimainbg.png
Should we keep '''Template:Move infobox''' around? If we do keep it, is it good as is, or does it need changes?


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Wayoshi}} <br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|EvieMaybe}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' 20:00, September 26 2008
'''Deadline''': January 1st, 2025, 23:59 GMT


====Switch to This Skin====
====Keep Move infobox, as is====
#{{User|Wayoshi}}
#{{User|Sparks}} I can see this template working really well for moves that aren't in every ''Mario'' game, like [[Spin]]. This has lots of potential!
#{{User|Shadow Boshi}} Freaking awesome.And SM64 Mario looks better than SMW Mario. GO WAYOSHI!
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Phailure}} Don't listen to those n00bs, this is epic win.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We don't see why not--having a dedicated Moves infobox could come in handy, especially if we get any more Mario RPGs in the wake of the weird little renaissance period we've been getting with the back-to-back-to-back SMRPG remake, TTYD remake, and release of Brothership. Per proposal.
#{{User|Arend}} Not sure about the logo, but the back is good. It just FITS a Mariosite! why? It has 8-Bit Mario's and is red, the color Mario wears.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal.
#{{User|tanokki}} It looks a ''lot'' better especially the logo.{{fakelink|SM64|PWNS}} Now, the color is a bit messy but that can be changed in seconds so overall It's good.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Awesome! But maybe tone down the background red a bit.
#{{User|Salmancer}} It would bring more attention to our move pages. I'm down for that.
#{{user|shyguy27}} Per all.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all.
#{{user|kingbowser99}} Good, but how and why do you propose to change it?
#{{user|Blue koopa}} It's good, but could be better with a different logo, like the mariowik2 one below.
#{{user|R.O.B 128}} Despite your comment on my talk page, I vote your idea. The current skin is too bland and boring as well as somewhat ugly.
#{{User|Tucayo}} Looks Better.
#{{User|Yoshikart}} Current one looks bland. I support Wayo, despite him trying to close userpedia which is the reason for my retirement. Use [[mario mini]].
#[[user:Yoshitheawesome]] Good idea. Let's shake things up a bit!
#{{User|Mr. Br Mario}} Hey, very nice skin. Much better than the old one. And I support the idea of changing the logo too. SM64 is much better than SMAS's Super Mario Bros. ALL HAIL WAYOSHI!!!


====Keep with the White====
====Keep Move infobox, but with changes====
#{{User|Super-Yoshi}} Your first proposal had many users state that we should oppose/propose. The logo needs a major change, but IMO that one wouldn't suite it. Besides, why can't you just create a monobook.css? The white background looks fine to me. It sorta gives that "Wikipedia" style look, which makes it look proffesional. However, these are just my opinions related to the wiki. I deny this proposal.
#{{User|Storm Yoshi}} The new one looks friggin weird. TOO MUCH RED o_0 . And the Mario logo thing is just far too weird for my liking.
#{{User|RedFire Mario}} I like the way it is. The new look is rly weird and it looks horrible. Keep the old and awesome one
#{{User|Walkazo}} - The background's not bad, but not good enough to be worthwhile. It'd be a novelty for a little; but our focus should be on information, not background colour (building on what Super-Yoshi said). The logo isn't that great either: it's too faded-out, and lacks "umph".
#{{User|DarkHero Sonic the Darkness}} The background doesn't really look good enough for the wiki. I think we should have the same skin the wiki has right now and I agree with Storm Yoshi.
#{{user|Jdrowlands}} - Per Super Yoshi.
#{{user|bob-omb buddy}} - the background would get boring quickly an as for the logos,the Mario mini one is creepy,and the other one isn't colourful enough.
#{{User|Dark Lakitu 789}} Per Walkazo. Also the logo's letters should of have a out line.
#{{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}} Per all! So far I still think the white background is better. And the old logo looks better than the one shown above. (It kinda of creepy any other logo ideas?)
#{{User|Stumpers}} Mario's always been a very colorful series, but the new skin is very pink rather than colorful.  I know you were looking to make it look like different varients of Mario's color red, but it ends up looking either, in the best case, faded, or in the worst case, efeminent (no offense intended wish that comment - I'm just saying that an efeminent color scheme does not fit the series: Super Princess Peach is currently the only efeminent game in the series).  The logo is also lacking, I'm really sorry to say.  I'm not sure how to improve it, really... but the previous opposer was right about the words at the very least needing outlines.  Thing is: you're trying to replicate Super Mario 64's style but it just isn't working because the letters you're using aren't stylized as they were in the SM64 logo.  Besides, don't you think the logo should reflect on the entire series, or at least on certain pivital points (ie SMB, SM64, and Galaxy)?
#{{user|Coincollector}} According to Stumpers. The background offers pink tones rather than red tones, and the edit zone, why in that color as well? Talking about the logo, not bad, but compared with the SM64 style of the title, is poor. I would rather the old logo's font style that reachs a bit of such style (although it may be inspired from the Super Mario World style)...
#{{user|Magitroopa}} OMG! It looks ugly! No offense, Wayoshi.
#{{user|Count Caterpie}} It looks like a picnic blanket, plus i like the logo we have.
#{{user|Luigi001}} Per all. Personally I like the wiki's skin the way it is. But that's me. And that logo is kinda creepy!
#{{User|Canama}} Per all. No. Just no.
#{{user|Fantastic Mr. L}}I like the background, but the head is disturbing somehow. Might as well stay with the white.
#{{user|InfectedShroom}} - Per all. Not that I care, considering I just made a .css... Ah well. I like the monotonous white skin.
#{{user|The Great Gonzales}} - I prefer the original, myself. I like our current, more professional-looking logo better (Nothing on you, Wayoshi, of course). Plus, I think the red background is a bit obtrusive and could become distracting to readers' eyes.
#{{user|Frostyfireyoshi}} - Per all. I said: PER ALL !!!!!!!!
#{{User|Dom}} - Here goes my rant. OK, this opposal is slightly biased as I hate the colour red, but that's jsut one reason. I think white looks more proffesional and is easier on the eyes. And as for the logo - that's...that's just really scary. I'm about the 500th person to say this, but it looks kinda dinky with the text over his eyes, and his face is kind of... dumb-looking. However, I do think our current logo should be changed somehow. So, I appreciate your excellent effort at redesigning the Wiki's style, Wayoshi... but, maybe you could try a different one that more people like.
#{{User|KP Blue}} - I prefer the current skin.  It gives the site sort of a library-ish look.  Which I like, because I'm editing from a library.  Besides, we don't want to annoy the obsessive compulsive users.  Besides, the pink look makes the place look gay, no offense.
#{{User|Mario Gamer}} - Wikis are always white, the basic layout and colors are fine. I've honestly never cared for the logo since it's not very...professional looking but this new one is not any better. I think a logo contest for the site would be cool.
#{{user|Girrrtacos}} I prefer the original.
#{{User|Phoenix Rider}} - I can't imagine ever switching over to something else. This style has worked for us and makes everything appear smooth and crisp. Not to overuse the word, but it '''does''' look professional this way. The red is a bit harsh on the eyes and it looks too busy back there. In addition to that it makes the site seem kiddy. Is this really what we want our readers to see? Keep in mind how many people use Wikipedia and are accustomed to the layout there. I've always viewed our layout as Wikipedia-esque with a Mario spin. The new design just throws that all out the window and that should not be. Good job on the redesign aspect and all, Wayoshi, but the way it is now seems perfect to me.


====Comments====
====Delete Move infobox====
I'm aware Mario's eyes are covered by the A & R. I could put all the text at the top and Mario at the bottom, if everyone else prefers such, but I like the hidden effect. {{User|Wayoshi}} 22:40, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
 
:I admire that you are putting much effort to produce a good wiki Wayo, and I congratulate you for that. It must have taken a long time to do both, but still, per my response up above. {{User|Super-Yoshi}}
====Move infobox Comments====
Considering the nature of the attack infoboxes, wouldn't it be weird to have moves all in purple but a Mario & Luigi attack use yellow and green and a Paper Mario attack use white and green? Should there be variants of the Move infobox to match the color schemes of existing templates? If an article is covering multiple related moves, how will the infobox work? (ex. [[Handstand]], [[Cap Throw]], [[Roll]], [[Slide Kick]]... there's more of these than I thought). What happens when a move is referenced in somewhat less "move-y" ways? Okay, that last one is kinda strange, but basically I mean "dashing" in Super Mario Run is just a fancy animation, Mario & Luigi Dream Team has an animation where Giant Luigi crouches (with posing and skidding clearly meant to be a platformer callback), to slide under an attack. Do these instances get incorporated into the infobox? Continuing the train of thought, what about sports games? Yoshi can Flutter Jump as his special action on Mario & Sonic games. Does that count as a method of input for a Flutter Jump? [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 21:35, December 19, 2024 (EST)
:that's a lot of very interesting questions!
:*i went with purple to set it apart from the already taken light red (game), green and white (character), blue (level), pink (location), grey (item) and navy/grey (species) infoboxes. changing the color could be a good idea.
:*as for sorting which moves "count" or not, we have to decide these things for other types of subject too, after all, and they get infoboxes. it's a valid concern, though! {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 15:09, December 20, 2024 (EST)


That screenshot looks exactly the same as our skin but with a different logo. :| I personally don't like that logo either, Mario should be semi-transparent not black and white. {{User|Uniju :D}}
===Allow blank votes and reclassify them as "per all"===
There are times when users have nothing else to add and agree with the rest of the points. Sure, they can type "per all", but wouldn't it be easier to not to have to do this?


Ok, technically, I don't like this text and the logo at all (the one seen above in the Proposal), but, while looking through, I thought of a logo... yet, I doubt it'd work. {{User|Palkia47}}
Yeah sure, if the first oppose vote is just blank for no reason, that'll be strange, but again, it wouldn't be any more strange with the same vote's having "per all" as a reasoning. I've never seen users cast these kinds of votes in bad faith, as we already have rules in place to zap obviously bad faith votes.
[[Image:LOGOMARWIK2.png|thumb]]
My brother made an other logo. It has 9 Mario games on the background. 3 Mario 2D games, 3 Mario 3D games and 3 Mario Spin-offs. What do you think. {{User|Arend}}


That look better than the logo that Wayo made. (No offence.) It pwnz!! {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
This proposal wouldn't really change how people vote, only that they shouldn't have to be compelled to type the worthless "per all" on their votes.


I think I will soon see that [[Mario mini]] logo ''IN MY NIGHTMARES''.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Mario}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT


Arend's logo is pretty decent, although Mario looks kinda funky. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 11:10, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
====Blank support====
:Arend's brother's logo is very close to what I was thinking of when I wrote my comment about your logo, Wayo.  I think it's very unfair to ask you to keep coming up with ideas and to keep having them get shot down, so maybe we should make a main page talk and/or forum thread about this subject and get lots of different ideas from various users and then we can put the best ones together? {{User|Stumpers}} 14:11, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
#{{User|Mario}} Per all.
::Only if everyone agrees in wanting to change the skin, and too many want no change at all. {{User|Wayoshi}} 16:14, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Casting a vote in a side is literally an action of endorsement of a side. We don't need to add verbal confirmation to this either.
:::Pretty much everyone wants to see a new logo, though. Perhaps we should have a contest? {{User|Stumpers}} 16:31, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
#{{User|PopitTart}} <small>(This vote is left blank to note that I support this option but any commentary I could add would be redundant.)</small>
#{{User|Altendo}} <small>(Look at the code for my reasoning)</small><!---It might not seem annoying, but over time, or answering multiple proposals at once, it can start putting stress. Copy-pasting can be done, but it is just much easier to not type anything at all.---->
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}}
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} While on the outset it may seem strange to see a large number of votes where people say "per all" and leave, it's important to understand that the decision was made because the user either outright agrees with the entire premise of the proposal, or has read discussion and points on both sides and agrees more with the points made by the side they choose. And if they really ''are'' just mindlessly voting "per all" on proposals with no second thought, we can't police that at ''all.'' <small>(Doing so would border on FBI-agent-tech-magic silliness and would also be extremely invading...)</small> <!---Silent per all.---->
#{{User|Shy Guy on Wheels}} I've always thought of not allowing blank votes to be a bit of a silly rule, when it can so easily be circumvented by typing two words. I think it's better to assume good faith with voting and just let people not write if they don't have anything to add, it's not as if random IPs are able to vote on this page.
#{{user|TheDarkStar}} - Dunno why I have to say something if I agree with an idea but someone's already said what I'm thinking. A vote is a vote, imo.
#{{user|Ninja Squid}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Tails777}} It's not like we're outright telling people not to say "Per all", it's just a means of saying you don't have to. If the proposal in question is so straight forward that nothing else can be said other than "Per proposal/Per all", it's basically the same as saying nothing at all. It's just a silent agreement. Even so, if people DO support a specific person's vote, they can still just "Per [Insert user's name here]". I see no problem with letting people have blank votes, especially if it's optional to do so in the first place.


I have to agree that arend's brother's logo is far better than the one we have, and I still think a slight change in the skin colors could help. And if that doesn't work, things like (very) faded background images for the content and such would be cool. {{User|Uniju :D}}
====Blank Oppose====
:How about a background with the clouds from Super Mario All-Stars or something? I dunno... something like that where we used the games' backgrounds as our background images would be pretty sweet IMO. {{User|Stumpers}}
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Honestly? I'd prefer to get rid of "per all" votes since they're primarily used for the "I don't/like this idea" type of thing that has historically been discouraged. If you don't care enough to explain, you don't care enough to cast IMO.
#{{User|Technetium}} I don't think typing "per all" is that much of an annoyance (it's only two words), and I like clearly seeing why people are voting (for instance, I do see a difference between "per proposal" and "per all" - "per all" implies agreeing with the comments, too). I just don't think this is something that needs changing, not to mention the potential confusion blank votes could cause.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Maybe we're a little petty, but we prefer a "per all" vote to a blank one, even if "per all" is effectively used as a non-answer, because it still requires that someone ''does'' provide an answer, even if it's just to effectively say "ditto". You know what to expect with a "per all" vote--you don't really get that information with a fully blank vote.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} {{color|white|Forgive me for the gimmicky formatting, but I want to make a point here — when you see a blank oppositional vote, it's disheartening, isn't it? Of course, it's always going to be that way when someone's voting against you, but when it doesn't come with any other thoughts, then you can't at all address it, debate it, take it into account — nothing. This also applies to supporting votes, if it's for a proposal you oppose. Of course, this is an issue with "per all" votes as well. I don't know if I'd go as far as Doc would on that, but if there's going to be these kinds of non-discussion-generating votes, they can at least be bothered to type ''two words''.}}
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per all <small>(is it too much to ask to type just two words to explicitely express that you agree with the above votes?)</small>
#{{User|Axii}} Requiring people to state their reason for agreeing or disagreeing with a proposal leads to unnecessary repetition (in response to Doc). Letting people type nothing doesn't help us understand which arguments they agreed with when deciding what to vote for. The proposer? Other people who voted? Someone in particular, maybe? Maybe everyone except the proposer? It's crucial to know which arguments were the most convincing to people.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Technetium, Camwoodstock, and Axii.
#{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} I admit this vote is based on personal preference as any defensible reasoning. To build on Camwoodstock and Ahemtoday's points, though, the way I see it, "per all" at least provides ''some'' insight into what has persuaded a voter, if only the bare minimum. "Per all" is distinct at least from "per proposal", suggesting another voter has persuaded them where the original proposal did not by itself. A blank vote would not provide even that distinction.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Asking for even a minimal input from the user as to why they are voting is fundamental, it tells us what were the compelling points that led to a choice or the other. It can also aid the voters in clarifying to themselves what they're agreeing with. Also worth noting that the new editors simply can't know that blank means "per all", even if we put it at the beginning of this page, because new editors simply don't know the internal organization of the wiki. Blank votes would inevitably be used inappropriately, and not in bad faith.
#{{user|DesaMatt}} Per all and per everyone and per everything. Per.
#{{User|Blinker}} Per Technetium, Ahemtoday, Axii and Mister Wu.


::::Stumpers: I want the current logo to stay, though... D: {{User|Garlic Man}}
====Blank Comments====
:::I secretly like it, too, but I wouldn't mind it being updated. ;)  I'm a sucker for the old school titles, but there's been so much more content since then. {{User|Stumpers}}
I don't think banning "per all" or "per proposal" is feasible nor recommended. People literally sometimes have nothing else to add; they agree with the points being made, so they cast a vote. They don't need to waste keystrokes reiterating points. My proposal is aiming to just streamline that thought process and also save them some keystrokes. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:34, December 17, 2024 (EST)
::::I think a contest would be a fantastic idea. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
:I think every sort of vote (on every level, on every medium) should be written-in regardless of whether something has been said already or not; it demonstrates the level of understanding and investment for the issue at hand, which in my opinion should be prerequisite to voting on any issue. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:53, December 17, 2024 (EST)
:::::Per Stooby. That Icon thing of Arend's bro pwns! {{user|King Mario}}
::There is no way to actually determine this: we are not going to test voters or commenters their understanding of the subject. Someone can read all of the arguments and still just vote for a side because there's no need to reiterate a position that they already agree with. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 20:55, December 17, 2024 (EST)
::::Lol, that was my idea! :) I think we'd need to have a proposal as to whether the logo needs updating... something like "Either keep the old logo or have a contest to decide a new one." {{User|Stumpers}}
:::My personal belief is that "test[ing] voters or commenters their understanding of the subject" is exactly what should be done to avoid votes cast in misunderstanding or outright bandwagoning. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, December 17, 2024 (EST)
:::::Agreed. And if we do have a contest, I already have an idea for a logo. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
::::My personal view is that a change like the one you are suggesting potentially increases the odds of inexperienced or new users feeling too intimidated to participate because they feel like they do not have well articulated stances, which would be terrible. I think concerns about "bandwagoning" are overstated. However, more pressingly, this proposal is not even about this concept and it is not even one of the voting options, so I recommend saving this idea for another day. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:32, December 17, 2024 (EST)
::::::Crazy! A contest sounds ftw :D {{User|Super-Yoshi}}
:{{@|Mario}} I agree. Banning people from saying that in proposals is restricting others from exercising their right to cast a vote in a system that was designed for user input of any time. I'd strongly oppose any measure to ban "per" statements in proposals. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 00:11, December 18, 2024 (EST)
I like Arend's brother's logo, though I think it would look better if the red faded to yellow (instead of pink) for the lettering - {{User|Walkazo}}
:That actually gives me an idea for the contest: if we limit ourselves to "rough drafts" of sorts (ie those versions of logos for which we haven't yet received input from the community) we're going to be limiting the quality of our eventual logo.  In other words, why don't we first have a general, open-forum style logo page, where people post their logos and get ideas for improvement.  Then, the next week, we open up a new page where people would post their final versions of their logos.  We could then vote off logos as follows: after three days, top 50% make it to the second round, then the top three make it to the final round, and then only one makes it to be our logo of course. What do you think? {{User|Stumpers}} 00:54, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
::I was worried about "works in progress" being used (hense I commented now, instead of waiting for the actual logo-voting), and I think your solution is a brilliant way to avoid that. - {{User|Walkazo}}
:::Sounds brilliant. - {{User|Stooben Rooben}} 01:27, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Thanks very much!  So we should start a proposal about whether or not we should replace the old logo, and if so that we should use that system? {{User|Stumpers}} 12:18, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::Well, I suppose we should have a proposal on whether or not the logo should be changed. The options could be: Change the logo, or have a contest. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
::::::CoooOOOOOOOOooooooonteEeEeeeeeeeeeeeest! Sorry, White Stripes reference. Anyhow, good Idea. {{user|InfectedShroom}}
::::::Wouldn't the options be "Keep the old Logo" and "Get a New Logo", with the contest expalined in the proposal? Also, I think the old Logo should be included in the contest (hypothetically, if 6 people votes to keep the old one, but 10 voted for a contest, and then their votes were split so that the highest new logo had 4 votes, the ''actual'' best bet would have been the old one). - {{User|Walkazo}}
:::::Yes, sorry.  I was in a hurry.  Didn't mean to write, "Heads I win, tails you lose."  You have to keep in mind that you'd also be splitting the votes of all the people who think the logo should change if we went with your second idea. However, I could see making the old logo an option in the contest just in case all the new logos are garbage. What do you think? {{User|Stumpers}} 22:46, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::That's what I was sorta getting at. If more people want to keep the old logo than any one of the new designs, leaving that option out of the final decision would yield results that don't accurately reflect the will of the huddled masses. And since we want to please the most people, that would be bad. - {{User|Walkazo}}


Maybe if there were a possibility of using either of the two skins, I might have supported this proposal. {{User|Pikax}}
Technetium: I understand, but blank votes are a fairly common practice in other wikis, and it's clearly understood that the user is supporting the proposal in general. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:36, December 17, 2024 (EST)
:Fair point, I didn't know that. Not changing my vote just yet, but I'll keep this in mind as the proposal continues. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 20:48, December 17, 2024 (EST)
:There's a lot of variation in how other wikis do it. WiKirby, for example, doesn't even allow "per" votes last I checked. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 04:13, December 18, 2024 (EST)


This is absolutely bias. There is seriously no point of letting users decide. Anyway, if it was agreed with people with the power to do this like Sysops, wouldn't they change it back if they had complaints. Personally, I perfer the red, but w/e.{{User|Purple Yoshi}}
I'm not really much of a voter, but I'm of the opinion "it's the principle of the matter". Requiring ''a'' written opinion, of any kind, at least encourages a consideration of the topic. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 21:35, December 19, 2024 (EST)
:Wait... what?  Why shouldn't we let the users decide?  The whole point of proposals is so that our Wiki is more democratic than the rest out there. How do we have a bias going anyway?  Against red?  Nope.  Against Wayo?  Definately not - that guy's amazing.  Against mario mini?  Well, maybe. {{User|Stumpers}} 14:48, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
::It's easier for the Sysops to get feedback now than deal with angry Users later. - {{User|Walkazo}}


Hey Wayo if you like that colour background so much use it on your page! {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
===Set Vector-2010 to the default wiki skin===
:That would only be pleasing you. Wayoshi can do whatevr he wants on his own page. {{User|R.O.B 128}}
This proposal is about setting the 2010 [[mw:Skin:Vector|Vector]] as the default wiki skin ([https://web.archive.org/web/20160207064154/https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/4/44/Logo_new-vector_screenshot.png screenshot here]) for desktop users, with the focus being on people who are new to wikis in particular, while obviously keeping the existing MonoBook skin as an option. What made me think to create this proposal is when I made a [[Talk:Main Page]] proposal about the to-do list tasks and how they are more accessible than clicking the "Wiki maintenance" on the sidebar, I had to uncomfortably squint to find "Wiki maintenance" on the wiki sidebar. But Vector-2010 has the sidebar links slightly larger and a bit more spaced out. With the existing interface, there could be some who may struggle to find options listed on the sidebar.
::I'm starting to think this is becoming too much work for too little of an outcome. Why can't users just make their own monobook.css if they aren't happy with the sites current appearance? It seems simple enough. {{User|Stooben Rooben}} 18:04, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I guess because not everyone is able to do the coding, and because visitors too might want to see a different skin. {{user|Time Q}}
:::Yeah. I made that point on the previous proposal I think, and those who want the proposed design can receive the code from Wayoshi, put it as their Custom Css, and it would be fine. {{User|Garlic Man}}


I like both of you guys' ideas, but seeing all of the opposing votes, we might as well start asking Wayo to give us the code. {{User|R.O.B 128}}
While we're clearly different from Wikipedia (that's why I'm not Vector-2022, since it'd be too much of a departure and likely uncomfortable for several), I do want to refer to [http://web.archive.org/web/20180213165624/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/05/13/a-new-look-for-wikipedia/ this page], which summarizes why Wikipedia transitioned to it. Though it is vague, they cite accessibility as the reason, which I think this wiki has been taking steps toward doing.
:We still might want to consider a logo contest, though... {{User|Stumpers}}
::But if you think about it, everybody could just make their own logo(or use another users'), and be happy with it; it seems compromisal(for the lack of a better word). {{User|Garlic Man}}


I don't have the requirements necessary to accomplish your task, but the contest would be an awesome choice. Y'know, they don't have this kinda stuff on Bulbapedia; this wiki is much better. {{User|R.O.B 128}}
I'll cite my reasons for preferring Vector and applying this to possible people who are visiting a wiki for the first time. The text is larger, which is especially important for larger screen monitors, some of the lesser used tabs are collapsible on the sidebar, summarizing the most commonly used options, and the user links at the top right are also more noticeable and less close to the body of the article where the content is read.
:'''Time Q''': If a user has trouble making a monobook, couldn't he or she ask another Sysop/User with a monobook for help? And if they were embarrassed, they could just copy someone else's monobook coding and customize it as they see fit. '''Stumpers and R.O.B 128''': I tend to agree with Garlic Man on this issue. After thinking things through a little more, users could add their own logo to their monobook. The contest is a good idea, but alas, not everyone would be happy with the outcome; the same goes with the skin. {{User|Stooben Rooben}} 20:18, 24 September 2008 (EDT)


:I agree with Stooben's idea since I'm being neutral in this arguement. It would help ease the tention and make everyone (sorta) happy. And the wiki itself would not be affected (plus you also have to see if the back round would cause certain fonts to be illedgible) so it should also be tested. {{User|MC Hammer Bro.}}
Though it could take time getting used to the Edit button being on the right (not to mention the search button), the button is at least larger, making it more usable on even lower quality screen monitors, and I like how it's separate from the Page and discussion options, meaning that options that involve viewing articles are on the left while options that involve editing or changing the page in some form are on the right.
::Following up on what I said earlier, as well as Stooben's comment, I think the overall white, neutral skin is appropriate for the default wiki; people may say it is boring, but it will not cause complaints about uneasiness on the eyes. '''Time Q''': Also, for new users, the welcome template has a link to the CSS info page, and they can refer to that. {{User|Garlic Man}}


Regarding logos, anyone think that a [[Mushroom]] would fit nicely? I'm no graphics artist, so I wouldn't be able to actually desgin one though. Many wikis often use a roundish logo to compliment Wikipedia, and a Mushroom only seems fitting. -- [[User: Booster|Booster]]
If this proposal passes and others don't like the change, they can always return to the MonoBook option in their [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering|preferences]].
:That could be an adequate logo if it had "Super Mario Wiki" on it, yes. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}


I think we're missing the point of a new logo or skin here: we want to be presentable to the users who aren't going to be hardcore and making their own skin for a minor specialty Wiki like ours (which is going to be a good 98%).  I think the consensus is that our current skin is a good way to do that, but there's a lot more discord surrounding the logo, as you know.  Our logo becomes a Wiki's "face" (at least according to the fan Wiki buffs over at Wikia).  Therefore, it's very important that we agree on that.  For example, we all think of one box art image when I say "Super Mario Galaxy." Even if a gamer was to make his own box art and insert it into the box on his personal shelf, that would not change the fact that the world thinks of the official SMG box art when they think SMG.  The current logo has been in place for years - perhaps it is time to see if it can't hold up to the work of some of the new image buffs we've gained since it was first made. {{User|Stumpers}}
'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
:Yeah, per Stumpers, that's exactly what I meant. You can't just have a random logo and tell users to make their own. I'm referring to guests who don't ''want'' to register, just visit the wiki, yet they should have a proper logo. I'm not saying that anything is wrong with our current logo, though, only that telling users to make their own skins and not caring about a standard one is the wrong approach. {{user|Time Q}}
'''Deadline''': January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT
::A similar discussion came up the other day between the sysops on a completely different issue: we can think of very creative yet complex ways to ensure than a particular user will be able to customize his/her Wiki experience to his/her liking, but we as experienced, involved editors need to keep the casual visitors in mind.  Passing users assume things about a Wiki as we all know from being passing users.  One such thing is that our presentation is the best we can do, and we want everyone to see it.  Asking users to each make their own logo and skin is backwards: rather than ask the majority of users to create their own logos, we should choose the logo that the majority agrees on, and let the dissatisfied minority make special skins for their personal use.  I think that we have determined that the majority likes our current monobook skin, but we really have varied opinions in terms of the logo. {{User|Stumpers}}


This might have been covered already (haven't sifted through all the comments yet, sorry), but, Wayoshi, is it possible to just add these layouts as default skin options, premade monobooks I guess? -- {{User|Ghost Jam}}
====Support====
:That's a good Idea. If we can't do that, we'll need the code from Wayoshi so that we may enter it into our personal Monobook. {{User|R.O.B 128}}
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.


That a good idea R.O.B so the users who like Wayo design should get the code. That will maybe keep them happy <s>hopely</s> BTW So are we going to have a contest or not? <s>Please don't! Classic logos seem better but Arend's logo seems cool too. </s> {{User|Princess Grapes Butterfly}}
====Oppose====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Admittedly, this vote is largely a matter of preference--we just don't like Vector that much--but we can't think of any real reason to switch to Vector 2010 as the default over the current Monobook beyond the mentioned text spacing; while that is a nice boon, we personally find the weird gradient buttons for the various tabs up top a little grating looking, and we're a fan of the more compact design that Monobook provides--though, this is likely a byproduct of our personal preference for more neatly packed web design. And uh, the less said about the other two options (Vector 2022, and. Timeless. <s>Which is the most dated theme possible, namely to mid-2010s mobile web design.</s>), the better. If you like Vector 2010, that's great, and we're fine with that! Heck, if anyone likes Vector 2022 or Timeless, that's cool too, and more power to them! Variety is the spice of life, after all. But switching it to the default is something that should not be taken lightly, and the reasons for a switch in this proposal feel a little too loosey-goosey for us, we're sorry.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per Camwoodstock.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I like how MonoBook looks a little more than Vector. It is what I am comfortable with. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
#{{User|Drago}} Per Nintendo101. I actually prefer the smaller text of Monobook since you can see more of the page at once. I also want to point out that although logged-in users like us can change the skin in preferences, we'd still be forcing the change on logged-out users.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per Drago.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Nintendo101 and Drago. I just don't see any reason to make this change.
#{{User|Altendo}} I'm saying this as a Vector-2010 skin user, and I'll say that people have their preferences. I live Vector-2010 because that is how Wikipedia at least used to look before they switched to Vector (2022); On Wikipedia, Vector was renamed to Vector legacy (2010), while Vector 2022 is named Vector (2022). Although I do prefer Vector-2010, I know a lot of people that prefer Monobook, and even if not, this can be changed in the preferences. No need to change the default skin. I get that IPs can't change their appearance, but aside from that, users can, and what they see doesn't have to be default on the wiki. Everyone can change what they specifically see.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.


The striking is not funny. This page has no room for jokes; this is a serious issue. {{User|R.O.B 128}}
====Comments====
:Getting back to the point &ndash; I do like Ghost Jam's idea. Is it possible that you could make something like, {{fakelink|MarioWiki:Skin 1}}, {{fakelink|MarioWiki:Skin 2}}, etcetera; then you could add them to a MediaWiki page that could create a dropbox in each user's personal preferences? Ex:
{{@|Camwoodstock}} That is true that it's a major change. It's based mainly upon impression from newcomers from them seeing a more prominent edit tab, slightly larger text size, and other minor details like tab names that are easier to read (including a collapsible feature for the lesser used tab). The skin change was based on old Wikipedia research at the time (like how WikiLove was a result of their research). I have no strong feelings whether this passes or not. Although it's vague, since there's no way to tell the statistics (and the wiki's already successful at the moment), I still have a feeling it could help some, but to each their own. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:32, December 18, 2024 (EST)
*Skin
:We feel like if anybody would be capable of providing any statistics on skin usage, it'd be Porple, but even then, we don't actually know if that's one of the things he tracks, and it feels a little silly to pester him over this of all things... ;p {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 18:55, December 18, 2024 (EST)
**Default (Light Blue)
**Red
**Green
**Yellow
**Etc.
*Logo
**Default (Current Logo)
**Logo 1
**Logo 2
**Logo 3
**Etc.


:Maybe that would work; and if users still weren't happy with those skins and/or logos, he or she could create her own monobook. As for guests that are just visiting the site, I believe that the current logo and skin is fine for a first glance. Then, if said user were to join, he could set his own skin/logo preferences. {{User|Stooben Rooben}}
I'm okay with opposition, but in case of misunderstanding, this proposal isn't about personal preferences so much as what I believe to be a more ergonomic interface to a wider audience. I know we're not Wikipedia, but there's also the consideration that they've used the Vector skin longer than they had for MonoBook. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:45, December 19, 2024 (EST)
:If it's what "you believe", then it ultimately (and probably unavoidably) is about personal preferences. Anyway, another consideration is the fact that people often prefer what they're used to. I feel like how long this wiki has used its skin is more relevant than how long Wikipedia has. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:39, December 19, 2024 (EST)
::{{@|Hewer}} I suppose I'm overthinking the ergonomic interface. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:19, December 20, 2024 (EST)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 22:38, December 31, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Wednesday, January 1st, 03:45 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  2. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  3. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  8. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  9. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  12. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  13. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  14. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  15. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  16. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  17. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  18. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  19. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  20. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Below is an example of what your proposal must look like. If you are unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. When updating the bracketed variables with actual information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games, Nintendo101 (ended December 25, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Make changes to List of Smash Taunt characters, Hewer (ended December 27, 2024)

Writing guidelines

Establish a consistent table format for the "Recipes" section on Paper Mario item pages

Recently on the wiki's Discord server, the user PalaceSwitcher brought up how inconsistent the recipe tables are for Paper Mario series item pages. They even went through every page and categorized how the tables on each differ, determining that 12 variations exist. 12! Dreadful. Where's the lamb sauce consistency?!

With that said, I think it would be best if we simply come up with a new table format altogether, and then implement it onto all these pages for both consistency and better readability - this format, which will utilize normal table coding, will replace the PM recipe list template in use previously. Many pages are also missing recipes, and having an outline to follow will make it easier for those to be completed. Another issue with all 12 current variations that there is one big table per page, requiring another column to specify which game(s) the recipe is in. Not only does an extra game column make the table clunkier, but it's harder for a reader to spot the exact game they're looking for. Sure, there might be repeated recipes on a page, but I feel the benefits of having one table per game outweigh this possible negative. A few pages also incorporate item icons into their tables, which I think should be the case on every page because they really help with readability; by splitting by game, we can use game-specific icons (names too, actually).

So, here's what I'm thinking the "Recipes" section of these pages could look like with the new table format. I'll use Mushroom Steak as an example, considering it's an item found in all three games. Note that each game will be its own subsection you can jump to on the actual pages, but doing so here could mess up the formatting of the proposal.

Paper Mario

Recipe Result
PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png Shroom Steak
PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png Life Shroom + PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png Dried Shroom
PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png Life Shroom + PaperMario Items Mushroom.png Mushroom
PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png Life Shroom + PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom
PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom + PaperMario Items Mushroom.png Mushroom
PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom + PaperMario Items SuperShroom.png Super Shroom
PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom + PaperMario Items VoltShroom.png Volt Shroom
PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom + PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png Dried Shroom
PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png Life Shroom + PaperMario Items SuperShroom.png Super Shroom
PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png Shroom Steak + PaperMario Items PotatoSalad.png Potato Salad PaperMario Items DeluxeFeast.png Deluxe Feast

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Recipe Result
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom Steak
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Dried Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Super Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom + Icon of the Volt Mushroom from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Volt Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Dried Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Super Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Golden Leaf Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom Steak (International)
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom (Japan)
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Turtley Leaf
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Golden Leaf
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Turtley Leaf
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom Steak + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Healthy Salad Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Zess Deluxe

Super Paper Mario

Recipe Result
Ultra Shroom Shake SPM.png Ultra Shroom Shake Shroom Steak SPM.png Shroom Steak
Shroom Steak SPM.png Shroom Steak + Gorgeous Steak SPM.png Gorgeous Steak Dyllis Deluxe SPM.png Dyllis Deluxe
Shroom Steak SPM.png Shroom Steak + Roast Shroom Dish SPM.png Roast Shroom Dish

Feel free to leave any ideas you have for the new table outline in the comments! At the time of posting the proposal, I'm unsure how to make the tables the same width for all three games - let me know if that's possible to do and if that's even something we should bother doing.

Proposer: Technetium (talk)
Deadline: January 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

MasterChef (Support)

  1. Technetium (talk) As Gordon Ramsay proposer.
  2. PaperSplash (talk) Per proposer.
  3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - THANK YOU. Unshrink the icons and this'd be perfect, but this is a good start.
  4. Camwoodstock (talk) - This is so thoroughly overdue. Per proposal!
  5. Super Mario RPG (talk) - This works better than my solution.

It's RAW! (Oppose)

Cooking Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick What size do you think the icons should be? I just did 25x25px since that's what they are on the Shooting Star page, one of the only pages to currently use icons. Feel free to make an example table here. Technetium (talk) 21:05, December 31, 2024 (EST)

I think that except for the TTYD remake, they should ideally just be their native size. Aside from the aforementioned remake, none get big enough for that to be an issue. (At the very least, the image links should work, because in the current setup, clicking on the icon does diddly-squat when it logically should do what clicking on an image would normally do.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:59, December 31, 2024 (EST)
I would prefer for all the icons to be the same size if possible. When at native size besides the TTYD remake, they look like this next to each other:
PaperMario Items ShootingStar.png Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) A Shooting Star from Super Paper Mario.
As for the links, I didn't include them because it felt redundant when the page links are right next to them too (and the Shooting Star page didn't have them). If people disagree, I'd totally add links, though - let me know. There still wouldn't be a link to the item a page is about, as you could imagine. Technetium (talk) 22:18, December 31, 2024 (EST)
When I click on a sprite I generally want to go to the image file page. Granted, I have used images to link to pages on rare occasions to match in-game formatting, but linking nowhere is just a waste - especially when it's shrunk, so you can't copy it to your computer's clipboard without it being compressed. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:21, December 31, 2024 (EST)
Ah, I assumed you meant linking to the item's page, not the file link. That makes more sense. Technetium (talk) 22:22, December 31, 2024 (EST)
Recipe Result
PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png Ultra Shroom PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png Shroom Steak
PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png Life Shroom + PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png Dried Shroom
PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png Life Shroom + PaperMario Items Mushroom.png Mushroom
Recipe Result
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Ultra Mushroom Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom Steak
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Dried Mushroom
Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Life Mushroom + Icon of an item from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) Mushroom
Recipe Result
Ultra Shroom Shake SPM.png Ultra Shroom Shake Shroom Steak SPM.png Shroom Steak
Shroom Steak SPM.png Shroom Steak + Gorgeous Steak SPM.png Gorgeous Steak Dyllis Deluxe SPM.png Dyllis Deluxe
Shroom Steak SPM.png Shroom Steak + Roast Shroom Dish SPM.png Roast Shroom Dish
Here are some tables with native sized icons (besides TTYD). Yeah, it does make SPM stand out more, though each game will be a separate subsection... and maybe TTYD could be made a bit larger? What do you guys think? I still prefer how they look in the proposal proper, though maybe those icons could be made a bit bigger (don't know if that would mess up the quality of the PM64 sprites, though...) Technetium (talk) 22:36, December 31, 2024 (EST)

New features

Create a template to direct the user to a game section on the corresponding List of profiles and statistics page

This proposal aims to create a template that directs people to a game section on a Profiles and statistics list page, saving the user the step of having to scroll for it themselves. The reason why I'm proposing this is because as more Super Mario games are released, it becomes harder to comfortably find what you're searching for in the corresponding List of profiles and statistics page, especially for Mario, Bowser, and many other recurring subjects.

Another reason I think this would be valid is because of the fact that listing statistics in prose (e.g. 2/10 or 2 out of 10) looks off, especially if that can already be seen in the corresponding statistics box; in that case, the prose could change from "2/10" to something more vague like "very low stat", which isn't typically worded as such in the statistics box.

For example, let's say for Luigi in his appearance in Mario Sports Superstars, there could be a disclaimer either below the section heading or in a box to the side (we can decide the specifics when the proposal passes) that informs the reader that there's corresponding section that shows his profiles/statistics corresponding. Like such:

For profiles and statistics of Luigi in Mario Sports Superstars, see here.

The above message is not necessarily the final result (just a given example), but the disclaimer would definitely point the user to the appropriate game section on the profiles and statistics list page, should this pass.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.
  2. Hewer (talk) I don't really see a need to deliberately make prose less specific, but otherwise I like this idea, per proposal.

Oppose

Comments

@Hewer I don't think this would necessarily eliminate cases in which statistics are in prose, but it may be redundant if there's the link to conveniently access the statistics or profiles. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:15, December 18, 2024 (EST)

Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork

This proposal will address the bloat some image categories have and make them easier to navigate.

Why is this useful? It makes adding to galleries or finding images to replace much easier. If you want to retake screenshots from a game, you can go to the screenshots category to find them. If you have sprite rips to replace, there's a category for that. The same goes for finding images from a game that aren't on the gallery already and being able to sort them more efficiently. This is also how we divide up character galleries already, such as Gallery:Mario (2010-2019).

Now, I can see a few edge cases, like when games have screenshots of themselves for credits images (i.e. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)). I would still classify these as assets, since they are ripped from the game. Artwork that is used in smaller forms in-game, such as in Super Mario Maker 2, would be classified as artwork if externally released or an asset if it was ripped from the game files. Edge cases shouldn't be too common and they're easy to work out: it's not too different from how we license images or put them in character or subject galleries.

I think the name "assets" would be more useful in shorthand than "sprites and models," in addition to covering textures, so I propose for the category to be called that, but I can change it if there's opposition. The global images category can still exist in the case there's scans, merchandise, video screenshots, or such images that cannot be further categorized.

Proposer: Scrooge200 (talk)
Deadline: January 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Scrooge200 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Waluigi Time (talk) I support this in principle, as long as there's room for discretion on what gets split and what gets left alone. A game with only ten or so pieces of artwork doesn't need a separate category for them, they can just stay in the main images category for that game. Otherwise, this seems useful, I just don't want users to go overboard by purely following the letter of this proposal.
  3. Salmancer (talk) I've tried to see if an image I wanted to use was already uploaded via the category, which would encourage me to make the text and get the article up. Due to the sheer number of images, this is a bad idea. This proposal will make that less of a bad idea for cases where an asset or artwork is being searched for.
  4. EvieMaybe (talk) hell yea
  5. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.
  6. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.
  7. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per proposal, as long as Waluigi Time's feedback is taken on board.

Oppose

Comments

This is already being done (e.g. Category:Mario Kart Tour item icons). Super Mario RPG (talk) 11:02, December 23, 2024 (EST)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Decide what to do with Template:Move infobox

A while ago (November 4th, specifically), I created Template:Move infobox. After all, we had templates for essentially all the Browse tabs on the wiki sidebar, except for moves. There WERE templates about specific types of moves, such as Template:M&L attack infobox, but no general template in the same vein as items, characters, species, games, locations, etc.

I discussed it on the Discord briefly, nobody said no, and a bit of feedback later about how it should look and what it should have, I created it. It has since been applied to exactly four pages at the time of writing, half of which I was the one to apply it to. In hindsight, this could've used with a proposal instead of me just making it, so here's a belated one.

Should we keep Template:Move infobox around? If we do keep it, is it good as is, or does it need changes?

Proposer: EvieMaybe (talk)
Deadline: January 1st, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Keep Move infobox, as is

  1. Sparks (talk) I can see this template working really well for moves that aren't in every Mario game, like Spin. This has lots of potential!
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
  3. Camwoodstock (talk) We don't see why not--having a dedicated Moves infobox could come in handy, especially if we get any more Mario RPGs in the wake of the weird little renaissance period we've been getting with the back-to-back-to-back SMRPG remake, TTYD remake, and release of Brothership. Per proposal.
  4. Pseudo (talk) Per proposal.
  5. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
  6. Salmancer (talk) It would bring more attention to our move pages. I'm down for that.
  7. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per all.

Keep Move infobox, but with changes

Delete Move infobox

Move infobox Comments

Considering the nature of the attack infoboxes, wouldn't it be weird to have moves all in purple but a Mario & Luigi attack use yellow and green and a Paper Mario attack use white and green? Should there be variants of the Move infobox to match the color schemes of existing templates? If an article is covering multiple related moves, how will the infobox work? (ex. Handstand, Cap Throw, Roll, Slide Kick... there's more of these than I thought). What happens when a move is referenced in somewhat less "move-y" ways? Okay, that last one is kinda strange, but basically I mean "dashing" in Super Mario Run is just a fancy animation, Mario & Luigi Dream Team has an animation where Giant Luigi crouches (with posing and skidding clearly meant to be a platformer callback), to slide under an attack. Do these instances get incorporated into the infobox? Continuing the train of thought, what about sports games? Yoshi can Flutter Jump as his special action on Mario & Sonic games. Does that count as a method of input for a Flutter Jump? Salmancer (talk) 21:35, December 19, 2024 (EST)

that's a lot of very interesting questions!
  • i went with purple to set it apart from the already taken light red (game), green and white (character), blue (level), pink (location), grey (item) and navy/grey (species) infoboxes. changing the color could be a good idea.
  • as for sorting which moves "count" or not, we have to decide these things for other types of subject too, after all, and they get infoboxes. it's a valid concern, though! eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 15:09, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Allow blank votes and reclassify them as "per all"

There are times when users have nothing else to add and agree with the rest of the points. Sure, they can type "per all", but wouldn't it be easier to not to have to do this?

Yeah sure, if the first oppose vote is just blank for no reason, that'll be strange, but again, it wouldn't be any more strange with the same vote's having "per all" as a reasoning. I've never seen users cast these kinds of votes in bad faith, as we already have rules in place to zap obviously bad faith votes.

This proposal wouldn't really change how people vote, only that they shouldn't have to be compelled to type the worthless "per all" on their votes.

Proposer: Mario (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Blank support

  1. Mario (talk) Per all.
  2. Ray Trace (talk) Casting a vote in a side is literally an action of endorsement of a side. We don't need to add verbal confirmation to this either.
  3. PopitTart (talk) (This vote is left blank to note that I support this option but any commentary I could add would be redundant.)
  4. Altendo (talk) (Look at the code for my reasoning)
  5. FanOfYoshi (talk)
  6. OmegaRuby (talk) While on the outset it may seem strange to see a large number of votes where people say "per all" and leave, it's important to understand that the decision was made because the user either outright agrees with the entire premise of the proposal, or has read discussion and points on both sides and agrees more with the points made by the side they choose. And if they really are just mindlessly voting "per all" on proposals with no second thought, we can't police that at all. (Doing so would border on FBI-agent-tech-magic silliness and would also be extremely invading...)
  7. Shy Guy on Wheels (talk) I've always thought of not allowing blank votes to be a bit of a silly rule, when it can so easily be circumvented by typing two words. I think it's better to assume good faith with voting and just let people not write if they don't have anything to add, it's not as if random IPs are able to vote on this page.
  8. TheDarkStar (talk) - Dunno why I have to say something if I agree with an idea but someone's already said what I'm thinking. A vote is a vote, imo.
  9. Ninja Squid (talk) Per proposal.
  10. Tails777 (talk) It's not like we're outright telling people not to say "Per all", it's just a means of saying you don't have to. If the proposal in question is so straight forward that nothing else can be said other than "Per proposal/Per all", it's basically the same as saying nothing at all. It's just a silent agreement. Even so, if people DO support a specific person's vote, they can still just "Per [Insert user's name here]". I see no problem with letting people have blank votes, especially if it's optional to do so in the first place.

Blank Oppose

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Honestly? I'd prefer to get rid of "per all" votes since they're primarily used for the "I don't/like this idea" type of thing that has historically been discouraged. If you don't care enough to explain, you don't care enough to cast IMO.
  2. Technetium (talk) I don't think typing "per all" is that much of an annoyance (it's only two words), and I like clearly seeing why people are voting (for instance, I do see a difference between "per proposal" and "per all" - "per all" implies agreeing with the comments, too). I just don't think this is something that needs changing, not to mention the potential confusion blank votes could cause.
  3. Camwoodstock (talk) Maybe we're a little petty, but we prefer a "per all" vote to a blank one, even if "per all" is effectively used as a non-answer, because it still requires that someone does provide an answer, even if it's just to effectively say "ditto". You know what to expect with a "per all" vote--you don't really get that information with a fully blank vote.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Forgive me for the gimmicky formatting, but I want to make a point here — when you see a blank oppositional vote, it's disheartening, isn't it? Of course, it's always going to be that way when someone's voting against you, but when it doesn't come with any other thoughts, then you can't at all address it, debate it, take it into account — nothing. This also applies to supporting votes, if it's for a proposal you oppose. Of course, this is an issue with "per all" votes as well. I don't know if I'd go as far as Doc would on that, but if there's going to be these kinds of non-discussion-generating votes, they can at least be bothered to type two words.
  5. Jdtendo (talk) Per all (is it too much to ask to type just two words to explicitely express that you agree with the above votes?)
  6. Axii (talk) Requiring people to state their reason for agreeing or disagreeing with a proposal leads to unnecessary repetition (in response to Doc). Letting people type nothing doesn't help us understand which arguments they agreed with when deciding what to vote for. The proposer? Other people who voted? Someone in particular, maybe? Maybe everyone except the proposer? It's crucial to know which arguments were the most convincing to people.
  7. Pseudo (talk) Per Technetium, Camwoodstock, and Axii.
  8. Hooded Pitohui (talk) I admit this vote is based on personal preference as any defensible reasoning. To build on Camwoodstock and Ahemtoday's points, though, the way I see it, "per all" at least provides some insight into what has persuaded a voter, if only the bare minimum. "Per all" is distinct at least from "per proposal", suggesting another voter has persuaded them where the original proposal did not by itself. A blank vote would not provide even that distinction.
  9. Mister Wu (talk) Asking for even a minimal input from the user as to why they are voting is fundamental, it tells us what were the compelling points that led to a choice or the other. It can also aid the voters in clarifying to themselves what they're agreeing with. Also worth noting that the new editors simply can't know that blank means "per all", even if we put it at the beginning of this page, because new editors simply don't know the internal organization of the wiki. Blank votes would inevitably be used inappropriately, and not in bad faith.
  10. DesaMatt (talk) Per all and per everyone and per everything. Per.
  11. Blinker (talk) Per Technetium, Ahemtoday, Axii and Mister Wu.

Blank Comments

I don't think banning "per all" or "per proposal" is feasible nor recommended. People literally sometimes have nothing else to add; they agree with the points being made, so they cast a vote. They don't need to waste keystrokes reiterating points. My proposal is aiming to just streamline that thought process and also save them some keystrokes. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:34, December 17, 2024 (EST)

I think every sort of vote (on every level, on every medium) should be written-in regardless of whether something has been said already or not; it demonstrates the level of understanding and investment for the issue at hand, which in my opinion should be prerequisite to voting on any issue. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:53, December 17, 2024 (EST)
There is no way to actually determine this: we are not going to test voters or commenters their understanding of the subject. Someone can read all of the arguments and still just vote for a side because there's no need to reiterate a position that they already agree with. BabyLuigiFire.pngRay Trace(T|C) 20:55, December 17, 2024 (EST)
My personal belief is that "test[ing] voters or commenters their understanding of the subject" is exactly what should be done to avoid votes cast in misunderstanding or outright bandwagoning. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:06, December 17, 2024 (EST)
My personal view is that a change like the one you are suggesting potentially increases the odds of inexperienced or new users feeling too intimidated to participate because they feel like they do not have well articulated stances, which would be terrible. I think concerns about "bandwagoning" are overstated. However, more pressingly, this proposal is not even about this concept and it is not even one of the voting options, so I recommend saving this idea for another day. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:32, December 17, 2024 (EST)
@Mario I agree. Banning people from saying that in proposals is restricting others from exercising their right to cast a vote in a system that was designed for user input of any time. I'd strongly oppose any measure to ban "per" statements in proposals. Super Mario RPG (talk) 00:11, December 18, 2024 (EST)

Technetium: I understand, but blank votes are a fairly common practice in other wikis, and it's clearly understood that the user is supporting the proposal in general. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:36, December 17, 2024 (EST)

Fair point, I didn't know that. Not changing my vote just yet, but I'll keep this in mind as the proposal continues. Technetium (talk) 20:48, December 17, 2024 (EST)
There's a lot of variation in how other wikis do it. WiKirby, for example, doesn't even allow "per" votes last I checked. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:13, December 18, 2024 (EST)

I'm not really much of a voter, but I'm of the opinion "it's the principle of the matter". Requiring a written opinion, of any kind, at least encourages a consideration of the topic. Salmancer (talk) 21:35, December 19, 2024 (EST)

Set Vector-2010 to the default wiki skin

This proposal is about setting the 2010 Vector as the default wiki skin (screenshot here) for desktop users, with the focus being on people who are new to wikis in particular, while obviously keeping the existing MonoBook skin as an option. What made me think to create this proposal is when I made a Talk:Main Page proposal about the to-do list tasks and how they are more accessible than clicking the "Wiki maintenance" on the sidebar, I had to uncomfortably squint to find "Wiki maintenance" on the wiki sidebar. But Vector-2010 has the sidebar links slightly larger and a bit more spaced out. With the existing interface, there could be some who may struggle to find options listed on the sidebar.

While we're clearly different from Wikipedia (that's why I'm not Vector-2022, since it'd be too much of a departure and likely uncomfortable for several), I do want to refer to this page, which summarizes why Wikipedia transitioned to it. Though it is vague, they cite accessibility as the reason, which I think this wiki has been taking steps toward doing.

I'll cite my reasons for preferring Vector and applying this to possible people who are visiting a wiki for the first time. The text is larger, which is especially important for larger screen monitors, some of the lesser used tabs are collapsible on the sidebar, summarizing the most commonly used options, and the user links at the top right are also more noticeable and less close to the body of the article where the content is read.

Though it could take time getting used to the Edit button being on the right (not to mention the search button), the button is at least larger, making it more usable on even lower quality screen monitors, and I like how it's separate from the Page and discussion options, meaning that options that involve viewing articles are on the left while options that involve editing or changing the page in some form are on the right.

If this proposal passes and others don't like the change, they can always return to the MonoBook option in their preferences.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per.

Oppose

  1. Camwoodstock (talk) Admittedly, this vote is largely a matter of preference--we just don't like Vector that much--but we can't think of any real reason to switch to Vector 2010 as the default over the current Monobook beyond the mentioned text spacing; while that is a nice boon, we personally find the weird gradient buttons for the various tabs up top a little grating looking, and we're a fan of the more compact design that Monobook provides--though, this is likely a byproduct of our personal preference for more neatly packed web design. And uh, the less said about the other two options (Vector 2022, and. Timeless. Which is the most dated theme possible, namely to mid-2010s mobile web design.), the better. If you like Vector 2010, that's great, and we're fine with that! Heck, if anyone likes Vector 2022 or Timeless, that's cool too, and more power to them! Variety is the spice of life, after all. But switching it to the default is something that should not be taken lightly, and the reasons for a switch in this proposal feel a little too loosey-goosey for us, we're sorry.
  2. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per Camwoodstock.
  3. Nintendo101 (talk) I like how MonoBook looks a little more than Vector. It is what I am comfortable with. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  4. Drago (talk) Per Nintendo101. I actually prefer the smaller text of Monobook since you can see more of the page at once. I also want to point out that although logged-in users like us can change the skin in preferences, we'd still be forcing the change on logged-out users.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Per Drago.
  6. Technetium (talk) Per Nintendo101 and Drago. I just don't see any reason to make this change.
  7. Altendo (talk) I'm saying this as a Vector-2010 skin user, and I'll say that people have their preferences. I live Vector-2010 because that is how Wikipedia at least used to look before they switched to Vector (2022); On Wikipedia, Vector was renamed to Vector legacy (2010), while Vector 2022 is named Vector (2022). Although I do prefer Vector-2010, I know a lot of people that prefer Monobook, and even if not, this can be changed in the preferences. No need to change the default skin. I get that IPs can't change their appearance, but aside from that, users can, and what they see doesn't have to be default on the wiki. Everyone can change what they specifically see.
  8. Sparks (talk) Per all.

Comments

@Camwoodstock That is true that it's a major change. It's based mainly upon impression from newcomers from them seeing a more prominent edit tab, slightly larger text size, and other minor details like tab names that are easier to read (including a collapsible feature for the lesser used tab). The skin change was based on old Wikipedia research at the time (like how WikiLove was a result of their research). I have no strong feelings whether this passes or not. Although it's vague, since there's no way to tell the statistics (and the wiki's already successful at the moment), I still have a feeling it could help some, but to each their own. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:32, December 18, 2024 (EST)

We feel like if anybody would be capable of providing any statistics on skin usage, it'd be Porple, but even then, we don't actually know if that's one of the things he tracks, and it feels a little silly to pester him over this of all things... ;p Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 18:55, December 18, 2024 (EST)

I'm okay with opposition, but in case of misunderstanding, this proposal isn't about personal preferences so much as what I believe to be a more ergonomic interface to a wider audience. I know we're not Wikipedia, but there's also the consideration that they've used the Vector skin longer than they had for MonoBook. Super Mario RPG (talk) 13:45, December 19, 2024 (EST)

If it's what "you believe", then it ultimately (and probably unavoidably) is about personal preferences. Anyway, another consideration is the fact that people often prefer what they're used to. I feel like how long this wiki has used its skin is more relevant than how long Wikipedia has. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:39, December 19, 2024 (EST)
@Hewer I suppose I'm overthinking the ergonomic interface. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:19, December 20, 2024 (EST)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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