MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
==Writing guidelines==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''


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==Removals==
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''
===Remove non-Mario music from Super Smash Bros. sound test pages===
I'm proposing to remove music tracks not related to the ''Mario'' series and its sub-series from these pages:
*''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl sound test]]''
*''[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U sound test]]''
*''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate sound test by series (A–M)]]''
*''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate sound test by series (N–Z)]]''
This is mainly because the tracks aren't related to ''Mario'' and they take up the most space in the pages...to the point where they're really bloated. If this passes, both ''Ultimate'' sound pages listed can be deleted and have their content merged into ''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate sound test]]'' if space allows.
 
'''Edit''': To clarify, tracks with ''Mario'' elements like the Famicom Medley (which has the Dr. Mario theme in it) won't be affected by the removals.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Mushzoom}}<br>
'''Deadline''': September 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT
 
====Support====
#{{User|Mushzoom}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Sparks}} Recently there have been proposals to get rid of non-''Mario'' content in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. The articles for [[Taunt]] and [[List of Snake's codec conversations]] only have the ''Mario'' related ones for them. This one aims to accomplish a similar goal, so I support.
#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposer and Sparks.
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} With crossovers as big as Smash, it would be good to clean up the stuff not related to Mario. For years, our coverage policy about crossovers had us cover as much Smash as Smash Wiki. Now, we've got proposals reducing Smash coverage to focus on this wiki's franchise just like how the other wikis would handle Smash. Bulbapedia focuses on the Pokémon in Smash. Funny enough, before Smash Wiki came to NIWA, Bulbapedia linked to Super Mario Wiki for the other Smash characters. It's good to not be a rival to Smash Wiki, and reducing the sound tests to just the Mario songs is another step forward. Now to reduce the list of [[Spirit (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)|Spirits]].
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. While we personally probably wouldn't have touched this until later (we have a very "just say when" approach to our Smash proposals, if you haven't noticed... ;P), we figure it's best to clear this up now if it's fine with everyone else. Anyone looking for a full list of songs is probably checking SSBWiki by this point, and so we should probably narrow it down to only songs relevant to Mario (as well as Donkey Kong/Yoshi/Wario/Mario Kart/other such stuff, of course) by now.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Ah, yes, "One-Winged Angel" and "Awake", my favorite musical pieces from the Mario series. Per proposal and Sparks.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} These tables are nearly direct copies of the "Music" list articles on SmashWiki. Just use the <nowiki>{{NIWA}} template</nowiki> in the References section of each article to provide easy access to the complete song list for each game.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per all. <small>Maybe we should start considering Smash Bros. as a "guest appearance" series?</small>
#{{User|Axii}} Per proposer. As always, I support trimming Smash coverage.
#{{User|Mario}} Information isn't really relevant to the goals of MarioWiki. I do think Smash Bros. is still a thorough crossover series and Mario plays a significant role in coverage, so not really Mario's guest appearance, but coverage on MarioWiki should be conditional. We need to remain focused.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} we don't need to eat smashwiki's lunch.
#{{User|Yook Bab-imba}} Anything that reduces the amount of Smash content gets a yes from me, there's a proper wiki for that.
#{{User|YoYo}} per all
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.
 
====Oppose====
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] - I don't really see this being an issue - especially since some of the non-''Mario'' music we otherwise do have representation of, like Mute City and Big Blue in MK8. (Also I would appreciate not having my upcoming omnibus proposal pushed back because people won't stop making other Smash proposals piece-by-piece when it's already been stated by a patroller that it'd be better to do things all at once - and that these "piecemeal" ones ''shouldn't'' be done.)
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Doc, plus this would create an inconsistency: the stage list pages list the music tracks for each stage, except for Ultimate because in that game every stage's music is just all the music from that stage's franchise. The Ultimate sound test page we have now doubles as the listing for stage music for Ultimate's stages, so removing it creates a hole in our coverage where Ultimate is the only game in the series that we don't provide that information for. Coverage inconsistencies like this keep arising as people keep making one-at-a-time proposals removing individual elements of Smash coverage, so I agree with Doc that at this point, handling all of it in one would be a much better idea.
#{{User|Tails777}} I remain pretty steadfast in my general opposing stance on removing ''Smash'' content. I have come to terms with some merges (fighters, stages etc), but I still remain against the idea of removing this stuff. ''Smash'' is a crossover in the same way that ''Mario & Sonic'' and ''Fortune Street'' are and the size of the crossover does not change my stance on that. I'm not saying cover everything with an article, but I remain on the side of covering this stuff in some capacity regardless. Per all.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per Doc. Plus, I'm not really a fan of having pages dedicated to incomplete lists — I feel this way about trophies and spirits, too, if I'm honest. I think a page titled "List of X" should have all Xes on it; though I don't entirely know if that all-or-nothing philosophy holds up in practical circumstances.
#{{User|Metalex123}} Per Doc. I'm not a huge fan of Smash full coverage on MarioWiki personally, but it was moreso because in the past, fully non-Mario elements received articles, like say, Mementos, Sephiroth, and the Killer Eye. It makes sense to keep the info of these pages somewhere on the wiki, in stuff like list pages, while making it obvious the wiki does not focus on that content. I don't like the recent proposals asking to delete everything Smash-related that isn't Mario, when they're clearly on either lists pages, or merged into the game page themselves, both cases making it obvious the wiki does not focus on that series.
#{{User|Arend}} Per all.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} Per all.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
 
====Comments====
Just to be sure, music like Wrecking Crew Medley, Famicom Medley (which has the Dr. Mario theme as part of it), Title Theme - 3D Hot Rally, and maybe more won't be affected right. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 17:42, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
:Yeah this proposals needs exceptions for like the Famicom Medley (I think there are two of these now) that has Mario elements to it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:44, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
:Yes, they won't be affected. [[User:Mushzoom|Mushzoom]] ([[User talk:Mushzoom|talk]]) 17:46, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
::That creates the obvious issue of making it look like those are the ''only'' songs available for the stages they are listed under, when in fact they mix with other "generic" Nintendo songs. To say nothing on how some Mario stages have "miscellaneous" themes available in-game - one example that comes to mind is the Tetris theme available in the Luigi's Mansion stage. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:59, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::I guess we could put some kind of disclaimer on the music list pages to explain that (along the lines of "there are multiple songs in this category, here's only the Mario-related ones"). Also, I don't think this proposal affects the stage pages/lists (as I talked about in my vote), so the individual stage articles for Mario stages will be able to keep their music lists at least. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:20, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
::::I suppose, but it's still nice to have them all in one place (I'll admit, I'm nowhere near as invested in this one as I was with the Pokemon one. If the pages included actual music files, I probably would be, due to my general fear of files being deleted). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:00, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::::It's not like those stage list pages like [[List of stages debuting in Super Smash Bros.]] are particularly great to begin with. {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:46, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Smash list articles in general are just plain bad. They're slightly trimmed down dumps of text from merged articles, and it's very clear that nobody wants to work on them, and for a good reason. Smash isn't Mario, even before merge these pages just sat there collecting dust, and I still don't understand why Smash is being treated like a sacred cow by some editors. [[User:Axii|Axii]] ([[User talk:Axii|talk]]) 15:13, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
{{@|Koopa con Carne}} - Well I mean, technically, no one's gonna persuade me that [[Skowl]]'s battle theme ''isn't'' just One-Winged Angel :P [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:00, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:It's David Wise's homage, "Winged Angel". {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:07, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
 
{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} has started a discussion [[Talk:Super Smash Bros. (series)#Idea for compromise between viewpoints on coverage|right here]] somewhat related to this proposal and other ones that had passed concerning ''Super Smash Bros.'' coverage on the wiki. I encourage other folks to check it out. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:09, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:I saw it. It's more or less the same as what we have now, but with the list pages merged into the game pages, as well as non-''Super Mario'' elements being added. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:12, August 31, 2024 (EDT)


==Changes==
==Changes==
===Include general game details on pages about remakes, and split "changes from the original" sections if necessary===
===Characters with multiple galleries should have them divided by decade, not medium===
An issue I've noticed with MarioWiki's coverage of remakes is that it doesn't explain much about the games themselves separate from the original games. This really concerns [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' (Nintendo Switch)]], as its "Changes from the original game" section is very, ''very'' long (over three-quarters the page, by my count), while not really detailing anything about the game itself. I do understand the "once and only once" policy means that they shouldn't have to be exact duplicates of the original game's pages, but it also leaves the pages about remakes feeling somewhat barebones; if someone wants to learn about the ''TTYD'' remake in a general sense, should they have to go back to the original game's page to learn about it first and ''then'' go to the remake's page to dig through all the tiny changes to find out what's new?
'''This proposal concerns the galleries for [[Gallery:Mario|Mario]], [[Gallery:Luigi|Luigi]], [[Gallery:Princess Peach|Peach]], [[Gallery:Toad|Toad]], [[Gallery:Bowser|Bowser]], [[Gallery:Princess Daisy|Daisy]], [[Gallery:Yoshi|Yoshi]], [[Gallery:Wario|Wario]], [[Gallery:Waluigi|Waluigi]], and [[Gallery:Donkey Kong|Donkey Kong]].''' In years past, all of these characters originally had single gallery pages for all of the visual material we had, like most subjects with galleries. Overtime, as editors uploaded more material and new games were published, this became unsustainable for them. Their galleries became too big, had difficulty to load for some users, and - for me at least - became difficult to navigate visually. The decision to divide their galleries into smaller ones was wise and substantive. However, the decision to divide them up by the type of media (i.e. artwork, scans, sprites and models, screenshots, etc.) was not. It simply mitigated the problem, and only for the short-term.


I imagine this policy stems from early in the wiki's history for games like ''[[Super Mario All-Stars]]'' or ''[[Super Mario Advance]]'', which makes sense, as those games are generally simple and don't need much explaining to get the gist of how they work (and the "changes" parts of those pages are generally much smaller). For games like the [[Super Mario RPG (Nintendo Switch)|''Super Mario RPG'']] or ''TTYD'' remakes, however, it's pretty difficult to understand what the games are like without referencing the original game's pages, and in turn that leaves coverage on the remakes feeling somewhat incomplete. I actually feel like the ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' page is a good example of how to handle this. It still lists differences from the original ''[[Mario Kart 8]]'', but also explains the game's contents in a standalone manner well. (Maybe adding the rest of the new items and course elements would help, but it at least has the full cast, vehicle selection, and course roster.)
Games have continued to come out, editors continue to upload visual treasures, and unless something truly catastrophic happens at Nintendo or the global video game industry, they will continue to produce video games, movies, merchandise, etc. for decades to come. We will inevitably find ourselves with the same problem we had before: galleries too large to navigate efficiently, and even to edit. I personally feel we are already at that point with some of these galleries, especially for Mario.


My proposal is essentially to have each remake page include general coverage of the game itself, rather than just a list of changes. From there, if each page is too long with general details and lists of changes included, then the list of changes can be split into a sub-page.
I would like us to change how we divide these gallery pages for a more permeant solution, where we divide them by decade, not the media. Using our main man as an example, [[Gallery:Mario artwork (media)]], [[Gallery:Mario artwork (miscellaneous)]], [[Gallery:Mario scans]], [[Gallery:Mario sprites and models]], and [[Gallery:Mario screenshots]] will be replaced by Gallery:Mario (1981-1989), Gallery:Mario (1990-1999), Gallery:Mario (2000-2009), Gallery:Mario (2010-2019), and Gallery:Mario (2020-present). Each gallery with be subdivided the same we we typically subdivide galleries (artwork, sprites and models, screenshots, with variance in between as needed for things like scans), but it will only be media released during those respective time periods. At the end of a decade, the Gallery:Mario (2020-present) would be renamed Gallery:Mario (2020-2029), and a new one would be established titled Gallery:Mario (2030-present). For characters that debuted at the very end of a decade, like Daisy, a special amendment would be made where the first gallery would be "Gallery:Princess Daisy (1989-1999)", but all subsequent ones would be the same.  


I don't think the remake pages need to be exact copies of what the pages for each original game say, but having them be a more general overview of how each game works (covering notable changes as well) before getting into the finer differences may be helpful. I represent WiKirby, and this is what we do for WiKirby's remake pages: for example, we have separate pages for ''[[wikirby:Kirby's Return to Dream Land|Kirby's Return to Dream Land]]'' and ''[[wikirby:Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe|Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe]]'' that both give a good idea of what the game is like without fully relying on each other to note differences between them. I think this is useful for not having to cross-reference both pages if you want to know the full picture of what the game is like.
'''[[User:Nintendo101/garden|Here is an illustrative example of what one of these galleries would look like, more or less]].'''


This is my first proposal on this wiki, and in general I'm not good at proposals even on my "home" wiki, but I hope this explains what I mean. I think you can decide on a page-by-page basis whether "changes from the original" sections need to split into sub-pages (for instance, the very long ''TTYD'' section might, but something like ''Super Mario Advance'' could get by leaving it on), but I think having the remake's pages be more detailed and less reliant on the originals would only be beneficial to the quality of the wiki's coverage. This is admittedly just a suggestion, so if it's not ideal I'm fine if someone else wants to refine it into something more workable.
The reasons why I think this would work are as follows:


'''Proposer''': {{User|DryKirby64}}<br>
#This is sustainable, whereas the current setup is not. Sans time travel, Nintendo will not be publishing any more games during past decades, so there likely would not be any instances where we would need to consider further trimming or splitting galleries for these characters.
'''Deadline''': <s>June 17, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to June 24, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to July 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#This will make the galleries for these characters smaller, ensuring they are more digestible for readers to browse and easier for editors to curate. I really do think some of these galleries have become quite the beasts, and the seer sizes of them make them a little less enjoyable to skim. And ultimately, I would really like visitors to enjoy what we do here and appreciate the visual material in the galleries. Editing some of these galleries as is strains my laptop, and I suspect I am not the only one.
#We already organize the material within galleries by release date, so it would be easy enough to divide be decade.
#I strongly suspect the user who wants to see screenshots of, say, Bowser in the first ''Super Mario Bros.'' is the same type of user who would want to see artwork and sprites of him from that game, so it makes more sense for them to be accessible in the same gallery.
#It will be easier for editors to incorporate the new material they come across. Rather than worry they are putting a piece of artwork for a character in the wrong place, they can simply work on the latest gallery for the character.


====Support====
"But Nintendo101," I hear you type. "This is all fine and dandy, but why would we use the Gregorian calendar instead of console generations or even the consoles themselves?" You ask such good questions. I really respect that about that you. Not all of the material in these galleries come from video games, and it is inherently more intuitive for viewers not very versed in gaming culture to use the same dates they use in their everyday lives. There are also some disagreements on which consoles belong to which generations. So while there are certainly other ways this material can be subdivided, the Gregorian calendar is the simplest.
#{{User|DryKirby64}} As proposer.
 
#{{User|Big Super Mario Fan}} I agree with this proposal.
I offer three options:
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} This is a great idea.
#'''Support: Reorganize the affected galleries by decades, not medium, including material currently listed under "miscellaneous."''' Even miscellaneous pieces were released at some point, and often reflect the style of the games released around the same time, so it would make sense to cluster them together.
#'''Support: Reorganize the affected galleries by decades, but keep the ones for miscellaneous artwork separate.''' For those who feel like general promotional material makes sense in a gallery of its own. Using the earlier example, there would still be a Gallery:Mario (miscellaneous) alongside those decade articles.
#'''Oppose: Keep galleries separated by medium, not decade.''' This would also be the "do nothing" option.


====Oppose====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I'm unsure what the best approach is to covering rereleases or remakes, but I do not think we should adopt WiKirby's model of repeating most of the same information as the original game.
'''Deadline''': September 8th, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Opposing this particular solution, but agreeing that a solution to inadequate remake pages should be found.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Per all.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} I don't think WiKirby is a good example -- of anything. I would be interested in something else to improve the remake pages though.
#{{User|Arend}} I get the concern of this proposal, but I'm not sure if repeating much of the same information over and over is the ideal solution.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all


====Comments====
====Support: Reorganize these galleries by decade, including material currently listed under "miscellaneous"====
This is challenging. Whereas I agree with you that the TTYD remake page is basically just a list of changes (and that is something that should be addressed), I don't think that simply rewording most everything on the original TTYD page is the solution. When it comes to RPGs, its much more challenging to fully cover everything in the game because there's a long, detailed story and it would be senseless to reword what is on the original's page to include it on the remake's page. I presume that's what you mean by "general coverage of the game" anyway. This is a problem that should be addressed, but I don't know that either of these two options are the right solution. {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 18:51, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
:Mmhm, that makes sense. Like I said, I don't think it should be an exact duplicate of the original page or a paraphrase of it either... Maybe there's a place where I could discuss this with other users to get a better idea of what others think should be done? I went to proposals first since that's what I'm most familiar with, but maybe it would be helpful to iron out the exact issue a bit more to get a better idea of what to do. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 19:21, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} It would be nice to have every image applying to certain games, be it artwork, sprites, screenshots, and so forth, on the same page.
::It couldn't hurt to ask for some guidance from staff on the Discord / forums or research previous proposals to see if something similar has been discussed. You're right to identify this as an issue; I just wish I knew a better solution. Maybe someone will come along with a helpful comment, so I'd at least recommend leaving this proposal up to bring attention to the issue. {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 19:28, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} This would have the added benefit of reducing the main gallery page for each character to be solely a disambiguation, instead of confusingly containing links to sub-galleries while also housing miscellaneous images on the same page.
:::Me personally, I'd repeat gameplay information because that's the thing that's actually changed, whereas story isn't touched at all afaik. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 12:52, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} after talking with N101 on discord, i understood the proposal better. i'm still not sure what we'll do for artwork we don't know the date of, but this is a good idea.  


I think the case-by-case way we do it is fine. For instance, the SMA games and DKC remakes have enough changes both major and minor it makes the most sense to just list everything out again, which in the latters' case we do (thanks to a project of mine). But listing everything in ''Super Mario 3D All-Stars'' would be over-the-top when that's just a fidelity increase for ''three'' games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:34, June 13, 2024 (EDT)
====Support: Reorganize these galleries by decade, but keep the ones for miscellaneous artwork separate====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Secondary option, per Mario's comments.
#{{User|PaperSplash}} I do think it makes more sense to keep miscellaneous artwork separate.
#{{User|Mario}} If this works out, I'll consider the first option too. Anyway, this isn't sustainable in the future. We're going to need to split Mario's gallery even more whenever we like it or not. Split by decade is going to future proof it but if the resulting pages are too small then we can consider merges in the future.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} I only vote this over Option 1 because it's difficult to name a source in the captions for misc. artwork when the uploaders may not include one.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per all.
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} Per all.


In my eyes, the change list for ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' is very massive, despite my occasional efforts to subcategorize its change list. I could continue to try to compress that page's list, but even I would not call that a gold standard for "Remake changes" lists. [[User:DandelionSprout|DandelionSprout]] ([[User talk:DandelionSprout|talk]]) 17:00, June 15, 2024 (EDT)
====Oppose: Keep these galleries organized by medium====
#{{User|Paper Plumm}} I think this is just a better way of organising it. Having it split by its current category provides a more cohesive showcase.
#{{User|PnnyCrygr}} Per all. Sorting them by decade just makes the sprites, models, promo art, and scans harder to find in a jumbled clutter of knick-knacks. Sorting by medium is more convenient and uses less space. And as Evie said, sorting by medium helps to specifically look up an image of one medium among those of same medium.
<s>#{{User|EvieMaybe}} as both a pixel and traditional artist, being able to specifically look up all of mario's sprites or all of mario's artwork for reference material is massively helpful. i'm willing to change my vote if an option that doesn't impact this is proposed, but for now i'm opposing</s>


Just as someone who does go on other wikis to read up about remake information, I actually sometimes don't mind somewhat overlapping information than simply a list of changes (I don't like to hop back in between articles to read up information, especially if, say, the remake is the first time I'm ever experiencing the game). It's the reason I did sorta go all in in [[Mario Sports Superstars]] article (I wouldn't want to jump to two different pages to read mechanics about tennis and golf). I think a very brief summary of the gameplay for TTYD remake would do fine (basic battle system, hammers, jump, partners, that type of thing). {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 12:50, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
====Comments====
Some art in Mario's gallery, we don't know a definite year they're from. [[:File:Marioart8.png]], for instance, is uploaded on 2013 but this may originate earlier due the rendering style being reminiscent of the later 2000s. In case we get promo art of Mario between, say, 2009 and 2010 where we can't 100% verify the date ([[:File:Marioart2.png|for instance]], this is uploaded in 2010, but again this may be years earlier), is there a way we can determine where they'll be placed? {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:26, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
:I think the first support option would necessitate some detective work, but if one is wary that we do not have the adequate tools or insight necessary to confidently track that information down, I think the second support option would be adequate, where a miscellaneous gallery would still be maintained for neutral promotional material of unclear release date. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:30, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
::That's also an issue that I've been meaning to bring up: "miscellaneous art" sections are ordered with no rhyme or reason whatsoever and never have any dates on anything. Both of those need to be fixed; the origins and times should all be found whenever possible. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:27, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::I do actually try to organize misc art whenever I come across that page and decide to do this. In Mario's case, at one point, I did put all the solo art in one spot, first, and then clumped by age of art. Then the group art is next, and I tried ordering it on like how much Mario is there or how clean the art is. Of course, the page has been drastically changed since, but you may have seen remnants of how I organized it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 23:38, September 1, 2024 (EDT)


Just for reference, the current size of the ''TTYD'' remake page is actually larger than the size of the original page (190,141 bytes vs. 185,302 bytes). {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 23:45, June 20, 2024 (EDT)
{{@|Paper Plumm}} these galleries were split into pieces in the first place because they were too large to load efficiently or even edit. The current set-up only ensures we will have to do this again because Nintendo will not stop publishing games and assets. What would you suggest we do to ensure this does not happen? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:33, September 2, 2024 (EDT)


===Split ''Wario Land: Shake It!'' bosses into boss levels===
Hypothetically speaking, what if we split the galleries by decade AND medium? (e.g. {{fake link|Gallery:Mario artwork (media, 1981-1989)}} or {{fake link|Gallery:Bowser sprites (1991-1999)}}? {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:00, September 3, 2024 (EDT)
This proposal is similar to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/41#Create separate articles for DKC series and DKL series boss levels|the one that passed]]. As you see, we have [[Motley Bossblob]] and [[Hisstocrat]] boss levels from ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', the boss levels from the [[Donkey Kong Country (series)|''Donkey Kong Country'' series]], even boss levels ''[[Yoshi's Crafted World]]'' where each boss guards a [[Dream Gem]]. Right now, you might be wondering how we can create separate articles for the ''[[Wario Land: Shake It!]]'' boss levels.
:{{@|Arend}} I personally would not be interested in a character having so many small galleries dedicated to themselves that could otherwise be consolidated into a focused few. Additionally, your suggestion would not address {{@|EvieMaybe}}'s desire to have all assets on one page - something that I maintain is unsustainable and would have to be split anyways due to the sheer volume of material. From my perspective, we have already reached that point. The current galleries for Mario and Luigi are straight-up unusable, or at least they are on my end and I suspect I am not the alone in that. My laptop struggles loading these galleries (therefore, the point of splitting them in the first place is no longer working) and this is particularly exasperated when I try to correct a mistake and triply so if I want to preview a revision. When these galleries ''do'' load, I have difficulty finding what I want. I have been puzzled by some of the opposition and lack of support for this proposal. No sustainable alternatives have been introduced that would address the points I outlined above, and I principally do not think it is wise for us to maintain systemic policies that are unsustainable. While this proposal may not satiate everything people want in galleries, I encourage the opposition to consider that {{wp|perfect is the enemy of the good}}. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:33, September 3, 2024 (EDT)
::i'm okay with having to load two pages, personally. the issue isn't having everything you want in exactly one gallery, is not having all the stuff you DON'T want mixed in with it[[User:EvieMaybe|EvieMaybe]] ([[User talk:EvieMaybe|talk]]) 18:26, September 4, 2024 (EDT)


According to the "<boss> → <boss level>" diagram, the following pages will be affected by the split:
===Prioritize ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' (Nintendo Switch) names for all recurring ''Paper Mario'' items that appear in that game===
As opposed to their more "recent" names from ''Super Paper Mario''. For all intents and purposes, I believe ''The Thousand-Year Door''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s remake should be treated as the more "recent" game as while it is simply a remake of an older game, ''The Thousand-Year Door''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s remake also just came out this year on Nintendo's most recently released system to date, while ''Super Paper Mario'' released over 17 years ago and is currently only officially playable on now-discontinued systems.


*[[Rollanratl]] → [[Rollanratl Battle]]
To reiterate from a more practical standpoint, prioritizing the most recent original game with those items that came out 17 years ago as opposed to the very recent remake only causes unneeded confusion among users who are more likely to be looking them up in relation to the latter. I can attest to this myself: during my own playthrough of ''The Thousand-Year Door''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s remake, I consulted this wiki's pages for items multiple times and was confused as to why we were still using the now not-so-recent ''Super Paper Mario'' names for them as opposed to the ones I was seeing in-game in this very recent remake.
*[[Hot Roderick]] → [[Hot Roderick Race]]
*[[Chortlebot]] → [[Chortlebot Challenge]]
*[[Bloomsday]] → [[Bloomsday Blowout]]
*[[Large Fry]] → [[Large Fry Cook-Off]]
*[[Shake King]] → [[VS the Shake King]]


Once this proposal passes, then we will be able to create separate articles for the ''Wario Land: Shake It!'' boss levels.
Moreover, there are some names for items in ''The Thousand-Year Door''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s remake that have been altered from both their appearances in original game and ''Super Paper Mario'' when applicable: namely all uses of "Shroom" have been changed to "Mushroom", and we ''do'' reflect those changes now in our article titles and leads, treating ''The Thousand-Year Door''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s remake as the most recent game in those instances. Now, I can understand the likely argument for using both those and the ''Super Paper Mario'' names where applicable: most of the item names in ''The Thousand-Year Door''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s remake apart from the "Shroom" stuff are unchanged from their appearances in the less recent original game, but we can reflect names unique to the more recent remake, I suppose. But that still seems somewhat arbitrary and needlessly inconsistent to me, especially in cases where the names used in the original ''The Thousand-Year Door'', ''Super Paper Mario'' and the former game's remake all differ (see [[Mushroom Fry]] and [[Mushroom Roast]]).


'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}} (banned)<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|PaperSplash}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>June 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to July 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': September 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Hewer}} I guess this makes sense for consistency with coverage of other games, so per proposal.
#{{User|PaperSplash}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I don't think this should even have to go through a proposal. All the other boss levels have their own pages.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal; it makes navigation easier and lines up with how we already handle it for other games. (And for the record, short articles are fine: see [[Bowser's Sourpuss Bread]], which succinctly explains its role rather than being padded out for length concerns.)
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} We did this for Super Mario RPG, right? This change should be unprecedented. Per proposal.
#{{user|Arend}} I suppose that makes sense. Per all.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
<s>#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal</s>


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} While there is precedence, I just don't see this as necessary given the information is currently detailed on the existing pages without overcrowding them.


====Comments====
====Comments====
Wouldn't this be creating a bunch of stub articles? Is there sufficient information for all of these characters outside of their battles to warrant separate pages from their battles? For some bosses, I think this makes sense and I also think its good for the wiki to be consistent, but are we solving one "problem" and then creating twelve more by making twelve stub articles? {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 22:16, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Looking at "[[Special:ShortPages|Short Pages]], when it isn't being filled with small disambiguation articles, articles with imminent deletions, or ''[[Mario Kart Arcade GP]]'' items, even the shortest Wario articles don't really come close to the articles featured here. The shortest Wario-related article we could find isn't even as short as the recently-split ''[[Speed Mario Bros.]]''. While we aren't personally voting (we'd like to see an example draft of what the split articles look like before voting conclusively), we don't feel like article length is a particularly strong reason to be afraid when [[Pesky Billboard]] is an article so small that you could fit its textual content in a floppy disk's boot sector. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 23:46, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Also, "stub" doesn't mean "short page", it means "page with too little information". If there's not a lot to talk about, then it's perfectly fine for a page to be short and still be complete, so brevity doesn't automatically make it a stub. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 04:11, June 20, 2024 (EDT)


===Standardize sectioning for ''Super Mario'' series game articles===
===Decide how to handle conjectural sections about ''Super Mario Galaxy'' planets/areas===
I have been attempting to standardize the game articles for the ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' series on and off for the past few years. I think presenting information in a shared, unified way is beneficial for readers and passively communicates that these games are part of a shared series, something I think is helpful for a franchise covering so many genres and series. Game articles in the ''[[Yoshi's Island (series)|Yoshi's Island]]'' and ''[[Donkey Kong Country (series)|Donkey Kong Country]]'' series are similarly organized to one another. It is easy to jump from one article to another, information is where I'd expect it to be, and they look nice. Good stuff.
Yesterday, I've been trying to tag sections about unofficially named areas in ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'' with <code>{{tem|conjecture|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code> and sections about areas whose names come from development data such as internal filenames in those games with <code>{{tem|dev data|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code>, until someone undid my edits regarding the article [[Gateway Galaxy]], so I had to undo my edits regarding the articles [[Good Egg Galaxy]] and [[Honeyhive Galaxy]]. Now to me, it makes no sense for the beginning text for the Layout and Planets/Areas sections to read as follows:
 
<pre>
'''NOTE''': Unless otherwise noted, all names are unofficial.
</pre>
 
<blockquote>
'''NOTE''': Unless otherwise noted, all names are unofficial.
</blockquote>
 
As such, I offer the following options:
 
;Option 1: Add the <code>allnames</code> to the <code>{{tem|conjecture}}</code> template and tag layout and planets/areas sections with <code>{{tem|conjecture|allnames<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code> AND sections about areas whose names come from development data with <code>{{tem|dev data|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code>.
;Option 2: Add the <code>allnames</code> to the <code>{{tem|conjecture}}</code> template and tag ONLY the layout and planets/areas sections with <code>{{tem|conjecture|allnames<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code>.
;Option 3: ONLY tag sections regarding the unofficially named planet(s)/area with <code>{{tem|conjecture|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code> and sections about areas whose names come from development data with <code>{{tem|dev data|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code>.
;Option 4: Do NOTHING.


At present, some ''Super Mario'' game articles adopt different organizational structures than others even though they cover the same types of subjects. (As examples, compare ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]'' to ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Bros. Wonder]]''.) This proposal aims to standardize how they are all sectioned. I think it would be beneficial for their contents.
Take a look at the following samples for the first three options:


The sectioning I employ, in the order as laid out, is:
{{hide
|show=Show sample for Option 1
|hide=Hide sample for Option 1
|content=
<pre>
====Layout====
{{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}}
=====Starting Planet=====
[[File:Gatewayplanet.png|200px|thumb|left|The Starting Planet]]
This is the first planet that Mario explores in the game. It is where Mario first wakes up after being blasted off [[Peach's Castle]] by [[Kamek]] in the opening cutscene. Here, he meets two yellow [[Luma]]s as well as an apricot Luma who transform into [[Star Bunny|Star Bunnies]] and asks him to play hide and seek with them. When they are all found, a large light beam goes down from the sky, and the gateway appears, and it is where Mario meets [[Rosalina]] for the first time. The planet itself has three holes in its surface (two of which connect to each other directly through the center of the planet), many small patches of flowers, two connecting [[Warp Pipe]]s, several [[rubbery bulb]]s, two small pools of water, two small cottages, a ring of vertically-positioned rock columns, and a castle-like monument on the top. The planet is also surrounded by a light blue atmosphere. Later in the game, Mario must use the power of the [[Red Star]] to collect 100 Purple Coins on this planet, enabling him to use the Red Star onboard the [[Comet Observatory]] as well. Rosalina mentions that this planet is dear to her and she looks forward to visiting it with the Lumas every one hundred years.
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|width=200
|image1=SMG Gateway Garden.png
|caption1=The Starting Planet's garden area
|image2=SMG Gateway Castle.png
|caption2=The castle structure on the Starting Planet
}}
[[Deep Dark Galaxy#Gateway Galaxy Planet|A planet]] found in the [[Deep Dark Galaxy]] resembles the Starting Planet of the Gateway Galaxy. It can be seen from the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Wooden Planet|Wooden Planet]], as well as the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Starting Planet|Starting Planet]]. The planet is accessible via a [[cannon]] on the latter, and is much smaller than the original one. There are three [[Goomba]]s here, and a yellow screw that can be unscrewed by [[Spin|spinning]] it, which will cause the planet to quickly shrink and disappear, at the same time revealing a large ring of [[coin]]s.


'''Characters''': living/sapient/friendly/neutral subjects that do not cause harm
After the credits have rolled, when the player has collected 120 [[Power Star]]s and defeated [[Bowser]] for a second time, the ending sequence that plays occurs here. In the sequence, Rosalina thanks the player and says that she will watch over them from beyond the stars. She then walks into the door of the small blue-roofed cottage on the planet and comes out of the door of the Gate, thereby revealing that the two are connected. It is also revealed that the Comet Observatory is most likely hidden somewhere on the planet (although it cannot be seen when the player actively explores it), as it emerges from behind the planet after Rosalina transforms it into a comet once again and pilots it away.
* '''Playable characters''': characters controlled
* '''Non-playable characters''': characters that aren’t controlled
'''Enemies and obstacles''': subjects that damage or inhibit the player character
* '''Enemies''': living, often multi-membered creatures that occupy the general environment
* '''Obstacles''': abiotic and environmental subjects that cause damage or inhibit movement
* '''Bosses''': subjects that often take multiple hits to defeat and are chiefly major barriers to progression
'''Items and objects''': beneficial and neutral environmental subjects, mostly abiotic
* '''Items''': subjects that are absorbable/collectible, holdable, or health-restoring
* '''Power-ups''': items that transform the player character’s appearance and grant unique abilities
* '''Objects''': interactable subjects in the environment that are not items


This sectioning arrangement has been integrated on the ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels]]'', ''[[Super Mario Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'', ''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', and ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]'' articles.
=====[[Black hole|Black Hole]] Planet=====
{{dev data|section=yes}}
[[File:Black Hole Planet.png|200px|thumb|left|[[Mario]] collecting [[Star Chip]]s on the {{conjectural|Black Hole Planet|planet}}.]]
The Black Hole Planet<ref>Name confirmed by files found on noclip. [https://noclip.website/#smg/HeavensDoorGalaxy].</ref> is a planet made of nothing more than dirt, grass and stone. There is a [[black hole]] at its center, and it is also under constant bombardment by a [[meteor]] shower. There are five yellow [[Star Chip]]s on this planet that Mario must collect in order to proceed, as well as a rock with a [[1-Up Mushroom]] on top of it.
{{br}}


Because of the tactile nature of platformers, I like organizing subjects based on their mechanical relationship to the player character, so I keep bosses organized with enemies and obstacles because they all hurt the player. It is also thematically appropriate, because at least some bosses are usually rulers of an enemy species in the same section. I do not like using terms that have strong connotations outside of gaming like "cast" or "antagonist". (I particularly do not like using "antagonist" here because these platformers are not chiefly driven by narrative, so the fact that some bosses also serve antagonistic narrative roles is of lesser importance to their tactile roles as bosses.) "Characters" is more neutral, I think. I also do not separate "returning enemies" from "new ones". I'd rather delineate that information in one shared table, [[Super Mario Galaxy#Enemies|like so]]. It keeps related enemy species next to each other regardless of whether they're new.
=====Metal Planets=====
[[File:SMG Grand Goomba.png|thumb|left|200px|Mario on the planet]]
[[File:Metal Planets.png|200px|thumb|The two {{conjectural|Metal Planets|planet}} in the Gateway Galaxy.]]
These are two metal planets which look very similar to one another. Both planets are brown in color, and have what appears to be metallic green power cables embedded in their surfaces which snake around the planets. In addition, both planets have [[Shock Wave Generator]]s that, when spun, will send vibrations across them, stunning all enemies within range. There are many [[Goomba]]s on both of these planets, as well as several [[Crystal (Super Mario Galaxy)|crystal]]s. Also, on the second of the two is a [[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]], the only one in the entire game. The Flipswitch Area is located inside the second Metal Planet, and is accessed via a [[Warp Pipe]].
{{br}}


I don't envision this sectioning being applied rigidly, and this is apparent in some of the articles I linked to above. There aren't really enough items in ''Super Mario Land'' for them to be severed from power-ups, so I lumped them together in one table there. Both ''Super Mario Sunshine'' and ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' include a "rideable characters" section, and there is a "clothing" section between "Items" and "objects" in ''Super Mario Odyssey''. Rather, I would like this sectioning to be a jumping off point, from which users can manipulate and change things as needed. No two games are exactly the same, after all.
=====Flipswitch Area=====
[[File:Flipswitch Area.png|200px|thumb|left|The {{conjectural|Flipswitch Area|area}}, located inside the second of the two Metal Planets.]]
[[File:SMG Gateway Metal Planet Interior.png|200px|thumb|The draining device]]
When the player enters the Warp Pipe on the bottom of the second Metal Planet, he will be taken to an inverted, spherical metal chamber with many [[Goomba]]s and [[Flipswitch Panel]]s inside. The goal is to shut down the machine and save the first of seven [[Grand Star]]s in the game by activating every Flipswitch Panel found on the inside of the planet to change all of them from yellow to blue, while simultaneously avoiding the many Goombas and electric platforms. There are several coins floating in the air as well.
{{br}}
</pre>
}}


I offer four options.
{{hide
|show=Show sample for Option 2
|hide=Hide sample for Option 2
|content=
<pre>
====Layout====
{{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}}
=====Starting Planet=====
[[File:Gatewayplanet.png|200px|thumb|left|The Starting Planet]]
This is the first planet that Mario explores in the game. It is where Mario first wakes up after being blasted off [[Peach's Castle]] by [[Kamek]] in the opening cutscene. Here, he meets two yellow [[Luma]]s as well as an apricot Luma who transform into [[Star Bunny|Star Bunnies]] and asks him to play hide and seek with them. When they are all found, a large light beam goes down from the sky, and the gateway appears, and it is where Mario meets [[Rosalina]] for the first time. The planet itself has three holes in its surface (two of which connect to each other directly through the center of the planet), many small patches of flowers, two connecting [[Warp Pipe]]s, several [[rubbery bulb]]s, two small pools of water, two small cottages, a ring of vertically-positioned rock columns, and a castle-like monument on the top. The planet is also surrounded by a light blue atmosphere. Later in the game, Mario must use the power of the [[Red Star]] to collect 100 Purple Coins on this planet, enabling him to use the Red Star onboard the [[Comet Observatory]] as well. Rosalina mentions that this planet is dear to her and she looks forward to visiting it with the Lumas every one hundred years.
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|width=200
|image1=SMG Gateway Garden.png
|caption1=The Starting Planet's garden area
|image2=SMG Gateway Castle.png
|caption2=The castle structure on the Starting Planet
}}
[[Deep Dark Galaxy#Gateway Galaxy Planet|A planet]] found in the [[Deep Dark Galaxy]] resembles the Starting Planet of the Gateway Galaxy. It can be seen from the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Wooden Planet|Wooden Planet]], as well as the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Starting Planet|Starting Planet]]. The planet is accessible via a [[cannon]] on the latter, and is much smaller than the original one. There are three [[Goomba]]s here, and a yellow screw that can be unscrewed by [[Spin|spinning]] it, which will cause the planet to quickly shrink and disappear, at the same time revealing a large ring of [[coin]]s.


#'''Support: I like this! Let's do it''' (if this passes, this sectioning arrangement will be integrated into the remaining ''Super Mario'' game articles)
After the credits have rolled, when the player has collected 120 [[Power Star]]s and defeated [[Bowser]] for a second time, the ending sequence that plays occurs here. In the sequence, Rosalina thanks the player and says that she will watch over them from beyond the stars. She then walks into the door of the small blue-roofed cottage on the planet and comes out of the door of the Gate, thereby revealing that the two are connected. It is also revealed that the Comet Observatory is most likely hidden somewhere on the planet (although it cannot be seen when the player actively explores it), as it emerges from behind the planet after Rosalina transforms it into a comet once again and pilots it away.
#'''Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently''' (if this one passes, a second proposal would be raised by the voters that outline their preferred organizational scheme)
#'''Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy''' (this option is basically the "do nothing" option)
#'''Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed'''


'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
=====[[Black hole|Black Hole]] Planet=====
'''Deadline''': July 3rd, 2024, 23:59 GMT
[[File:Black Hole Planet.png|200px|thumb|left|[[Mario]] collecting [[Star Chip]]s on the {{conjectural|Black Hole Planet|planet}}.]]
The Black Hole Planet<ref>Name confirmed by files found on noclip. [https://noclip.website/#smg/HeavensDoorGalaxy].</ref> is a planet made of nothing more than dirt, grass and stone. There is a [[black hole]] at its center, and it is also under constant bombardment by a [[meteor]] shower. There are five yellow [[Star Chip]]s on this planet that Mario must collect in order to proceed, as well as a rock with a [[1-Up Mushroom]] on top of it.
{{br}}
 
=====Metal Planets=====
[[File:SMG Grand Goomba.png|thumb|left|200px|Mario on the planet]]
[[File:Metal Planets.png|200px|thumb|The two {{conjectural|Metal Planets|planet}} in the Gateway Galaxy.]]
These are two metal planets which look very similar to one another. Both planets are brown in color, and have what appears to be metallic green power cables embedded in their surfaces which snake around the planets. In addition, both planets have [[Shock Wave Generator]]s that, when spun, will send vibrations across them, stunning all enemies within range. There are many [[Goomba]]s on both of these planets, as well as several [[Crystal (Super Mario Galaxy)|crystal]]s. Also, on the second of the two is a [[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]], the only one in the entire game. The Flipswitch Area is located inside the second Metal Planet, and is accessed via a [[Warp Pipe]].
{{br}}


====Support: I like this! Let's do it====
=====Flipswitch Area=====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
[[File:Flipswitch Area.png|200px|thumb|left|The {{conjectural|Flipswitch Area|area}}, located inside the second of the two Metal Planets.]]
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Consistency is never a bad thing.
[[File:SMG Gateway Metal Planet Interior.png|200px|thumb|The draining device]]
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
When the player enters the Warp Pipe on the bottom of the second Metal Planet, he will be taken to an inverted, spherical metal chamber with many [[Goomba]]s and [[Flipswitch Panel]]s inside. The goal is to shut down the machine and save the first of seven [[Grand Star]]s in the game by activating every Flipswitch Panel found on the inside of the planet to change all of them from yellow to blue, while simultaneously avoiding the many Goombas and electric platforms. There are several coins floating in the air as well.
#{{User|Hewer}} I guess if this ought to be a proposal, then sure, per proposal.
{{br}}
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per proposal
</pre>
#{{User|Big Super Mario Fan}} Per proposal.
}}
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all. Consistency is good.
#{{User|RetroNintendo2008}} Per all.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all


====Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently====
{{hide
|show=Show sample for Option 3
|hide=Hide sample for Option 3
|content=
<pre>
====Layout====
=====Starting Planet=====
{{conjecture|section=yes}}
[[File:Gatewayplanet.png|200px|thumb|left|The Starting Planet]]
This is the first planet that Mario explores in the game. It is where Mario first wakes up after being blasted off [[Peach's Castle]] by [[Kamek]] in the opening cutscene. Here, he meets two yellow [[Luma]]s as well as an apricot Luma who transform into [[Star Bunny|Star Bunnies]] and asks him to play hide and seek with them. When they are all found, a large light beam goes down from the sky, and the gateway appears, and it is where Mario meets [[Rosalina]] for the first time. The planet itself has three holes in its surface (two of which connect to each other directly through the center of the planet), many small patches of flowers, two connecting [[Warp Pipe]]s, several [[rubbery bulb]]s, two small pools of water, two small cottages, a ring of vertically-positioned rock columns, and a castle-like monument on the top. The planet is also surrounded by a light blue atmosphere. Later in the game, Mario must use the power of the [[Red Star]] to collect 100 Purple Coins on this planet, enabling him to use the Red Star onboard the [[Comet Observatory]] as well. Rosalina mentions that this planet is dear to her and she looks forward to visiting it with the Lumas every one hundred years.
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|width=200
|image1=SMG Gateway Garden.png
|caption1=The Starting Planet's garden area
|image2=SMG Gateway Castle.png
|caption2=The castle structure on the Starting Planet
}}
[[Deep Dark Galaxy#Gateway Galaxy Planet|A planet]] found in the [[Deep Dark Galaxy]] resembles the Starting Planet of the Gateway Galaxy. It can be seen from the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Wooden Planet|Wooden Planet]], as well as the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Starting Planet|Starting Planet]]. The planet is accessible via a [[cannon]] on the latter, and is much smaller than the original one. There are three [[Goomba]]s here, and a yellow screw that can be unscrewed by [[Spin|spinning]] it, which will cause the planet to quickly shrink and disappear, at the same time revealing a large ring of [[coin]]s.


====Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy====
After the credits have rolled, when the player has collected 120 [[Power Star]]s and defeated [[Bowser]] for a second time, the ending sequence that plays occurs here. In the sequence, Rosalina thanks the player and says that she will watch over them from beyond the stars. She then walks into the door of the small blue-roofed cottage on the planet and comes out of the door of the Gate, thereby revealing that the two are connected. It is also revealed that the Comet Observatory is most likely hidden somewhere on the planet (although it cannot be seen when the player actively explores it), as it emerges from behind the planet after Rosalina transforms it into a comet once again and pilots it away.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - I see page layouts as an organically changing thing, it's best to not create guidelines where they needn't exist. I'm fine with the pages being changed to follow this pattern, but it shouldn't require an additional proposal to change further.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick.


====Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed====
=====[[Black hole|Black Hole]] Planet=====
{{dev data|section=yes}}
[[File:Black Hole Planet.png|200px|thumb|left|[[Mario]] collecting [[Star Chip]]s on the {{conjectural|Black Hole Planet|planet}}.]]
The Black Hole Planet<ref>Name confirmed by files found on noclip. [https://noclip.website/#smg/HeavensDoorGalaxy].</ref> is a planet made of nothing more than dirt, grass and stone. There is a [[black hole]] at its center, and it is also under constant bombardment by a [[meteor]] shower. There are five yellow [[Star Chip]]s on this planet that Mario must collect in order to proceed, as well as a rock with a [[1-Up Mushroom]] on top of it.
{{br}}


====Comments on standardize sectioning for ''Super Mario'' series game articles====
=====Metal Planets=====
These sound like good ideas, but do they need a proposal? Proposal rule 15: "Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages." {{User:Hewer/sig}} 19:39, June 26, 2024 (EDT)
{{conjecture|section=yes}}
:I originally did not plan on doing so, but {{User|EvieMaybe}} recommended I raise one. I supposed it was a good way to assess how other folks think game articles should be organized. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:45, June 26, 2024 (EDT)
[[File:SMG Grand Goomba.png|thumb|left|200px|Mario on the planet]]
[[File:Metal Planets.png|200px|thumb|The two {{conjectural|Metal Planets|planet}} in the Gateway Galaxy.]]
These are two metal planets which look very similar to one another. Both planets are brown in color, and have what appears to be metallic green power cables embedded in their surfaces which snake around the planets. In addition, both planets have [[Shock Wave Generator]]s that, when spun, will send vibrations across them, stunning all enemies within range. There are many [[Goomba]]s on both of these planets, as well as several [[Crystal (Super Mario Galaxy)|crystal]]s. Also, on the second of the two is a [[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]], the only one in the entire game. The Flipswitch Area is located inside the second Metal Planet, and is accessed via a [[Warp Pipe]].
{{br}}


===Allow colorful tables again===
=====Flipswitch Area=====
Recently, there's been an update to follow [[Help:Table]] that standardizes all the colorful tables into boring, white-and-gray ones. I personally don't like this: not only is it removing a bit of charm from the site, the colored boxes are legitimately helpful at a glance and make it easier to distinguish individual sections in these large chunks of data.
{{conjecture|section=yes}}
[[File:Flipswitch Area.png|200px|thumb|left|The {{conjectural|Flipswitch Area|area}}, located inside the second of the two Metal Planets.]]
[[File:SMG Gateway Metal Planet Interior.png|200px|thumb|The draining device]]
When the player enters the Warp Pipe on the bottom of the second Metal Planet, he will be taken to an inverted, spherical metal chamber with many [[Goomba]]s and [[Flipswitch Panel]]s inside. The goal is to shut down the machine and save the first of seven [[Grand Star]]s in the game by activating every Flipswitch Panel found on the inside of the planet to change all of them from yellow to blue, while simultaneously avoiding the many Goombas and electric platforms. There are several coins floating in the air as well.
{{br}}
</pre>
}}


Take [[Rock-Candy Mines]], a world from ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' and ''[[New Super Luigi U]]''. Here are two versions of the level lists:
Likewise, the source of the {{tem|conjecture}} template reads as follows:


----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#fff7f7;border:1px solid #b77">
The title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{derived|}}}|, but the current name has been '''derived''' from some available official information|<nowiki>;</nowiki> an official name for the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}'s subject has not been found, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}. If an official name is found, then the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|}}}|changed|moved}} to its appropriate title.
</div><includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with {{#if:{{{derived|}}}|derived|conjectural}} {{#if:{{{section|}}}|sections|titles}}]]}}</includeonly>
</pre>


{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%; margin: 0 auto 10px auto; border-collapse: collapse; font-family:Arial;"border="1"cellpadding="1"cellspacing="1"
However, once this proposal passes with either Option 1 or Option 2, the source will read as follows:
|-style="background: #0097CB;"
!width="5%"|Level Number
!width="3%"|Level Name
!width="20%"|Description
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
|[[Fuzzy Clifftop]]
|This is a clifftop level that features [[Yoshi]], [[Fruit (Yoshi food)|Fruits]] and [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
|[[Porcupuffer Falls]]
|Another cliff level over the water, where [[Porcupuffer]]s attack. Many [[Urchin]]s can be found, too.
|-
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
|[[Grinding-Stone Tower]]
|The sixth and final tower where [[Boom Boom]] is the boss, the final instance he is fought. The main enemies in this tower are [[Grrrol]]s.
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|[[Waddlewing's Nest]]
|This level features [[Chain Chomp]]s, [[Waddlewing]]s and tilting stands.
|}


{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%; margin: 0 auto 10px auto; border-collapse: collapse; font-family:Arial;"border="1"cellpadding="1"cellspacing="1"
<pre>
|-style="background: #43DD3B;"
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#fff7f7;border:1px solid #b77">
!width="5%"|Level Number
{{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|The titles of all sections within|The title of}} this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} {{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|are|is}} '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}{{#if:{{{derived|}}}|, but the current name has been '''derived''' from some available official information|<nowiki>;</nowiki> {{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|official names for specific sections' subjects have|an official name for the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}'s subject has}} not been found, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}. {{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|If an official name is found for one of its sections, then it should be changed to its appropriate title|If an official name is found, then the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|}}}|changed|moved}} to its appropriate title}}.
!width="3%"|Level Name
</div><includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with {{#if:{{{derived|}}}|derived|conjectural}} {{#if:{{{section|}}}{{{allnames|}}}|sections|titles}}]]}}</includeonly>
!width="20%"|Description
</pre>
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
|[[Mount Fuzzy]]
|An overworld level with some [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
|[[Porcupuffer Cavern]]
|An underground level with low water level and a [[Porcupuffer]].
|-
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
|[[Smashing-Stone Tower]]
|A tower full of [[Brick Block|blocks]] destroyable only by [[Grrrol]]s.
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|[[Spike's Seesaws]]
|A level with tilting platforms attacked by [[Spike]]s.
|}


----
As such, putting <code>{{tem|conjecture|allnames<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes|section<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code> will result in this:


{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%" class=wikitable
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#fff7f7;border:1px solid #b77">
!width="5%"|Level number
The titles of all sections within this section are '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]''''', unless otherwise noted; official names for specific sections' subjects have not been found, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors. If an official name is found for one of its sections, then it should be changed to its appropriate title.
!width="3%"|Level name
</div>
!width="20%"|Description
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
|[[Fuzzy Clifftop]]
|This is a clifftop level that features [[Yoshi]], [[Fruit (Yoshi food)|Fruits]] and [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
|[[Porcupuffer Falls]]
|Another cliff level over the water, where [[Porcupuffer]]s attack. Many [[Urchin]]s can be found, too.
|-
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
|[[Grinding-Stone Tower]]
|The sixth and final tower where [[Boom Boom]] is the boss, the final instance he is fought. The main enemies in this tower are [[Grrrol]]s.
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|[[Waddlewing's Nest]]
|This level features [[Chain Chomp]]s, [[Waddlewing]]s and tilting stands.
|}


{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%" class=wikitable
That way, we'll be able to remove "<code><nowiki>'''NOTE''': Unless otherwise noted, all names are unofficial.</nowiki></code>" from the Planets/Areas section on every ''Super Mario Galaxy'' galaxy page in favor of the <code>{{tem|dev data}}</code> and/or <code>{{tem|conjecture}}</code> template(s).
!width="5%"|Level Number
!width="3%"|Level Name
!width="20%"|Description
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
|[[Mount Fuzzy]]
|An overworld level with some [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
|[[Porcupuffer Cavern]]
|An underground level with low water level and a [[Porcupuffer]].
|-
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
|[[Smashing-Stone Tower]]
|A tower full of [[Brick Block|blocks]] destroyable only by [[Grrrol]]s.
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|[[Spike's Seesaws]]
|A level with tilting platforms attacked by [[Spike]]s.
|}


The only concern I can see is that black-on-blue text might be a bit hard to read, but we can change the text color to white, like some articles [[Not-Bottomless Hole|already do]]. It's a lot easier to tell with the colored header. If someone is just scrolling through the article to find the levels, the blue and green will catch their eye and they can easily know which game is which. The specific blue and green are distinctly featured on the games' logos and boxes:
'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
<gallery>
'''Deadline''': September 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT
NSMBU boxcover.png
NSLU NA Box Art.png
</gallery>


The standardization of the templates also really harms articles like ''[[Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island]]'': compare the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Super_Mario_World_2:_Yoshi%27s_Island&oldid=4128148#Bosses colored navbox] revision to the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Super_Mario_World_2:_Yoshi%27s_Island&oldid=4277340 current], and it looks more inconsistent because the levels section is still using a unique format and color. Also compare [[Pi'illo]], an item list: [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Pi%27illo&oldid=4283314 colored revision] vs. [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Pi%27illo&oldid=4283342 standardized revision]. I don't mind that the colors aren't official wiki standard because they're not arbitrary: they clearly correspond to the area, and lists for this game use the same colors for the same areas. Even so, it's still useful to ''have'' different colors because you can scroll through the article and easily know when one list ends and another begins.
====Option 1====
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} My primary choice.


Some lists are also heavily dependent on color to distinguish areas with colors ''specifically used in-game'', such as [[List of ? Blocks in Paper Mario: The Origami King]] or [[List of ? Blocks in Paper Mario: Color Splash]]. Standardizing these would make them much less usable. I don't care if we need to make the colors specifically approved or consistent on a per-game basis, I just want them back. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 20:51, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
====Option 2====


====Support: Allow colors====
====Option 3====
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal.
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} My secondary choice.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per proposal. Not only is it more aesthetically pleasing, but it is also easier to read. I do, however, agree we should look into somehow standardizing colors, like what we do with [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive]].
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I don't see any particular reason we would need an entire feature of these templates just for Galaxy's planet lists. The fact of the matter is: these planets are using conjectural or dev data–derived names. That's what the templates are for. I find the argument that they're only for situations editors will be able to fix wildly unconvincing considering I'd wager '''over two-thirds''' of [[:Category:Articles with conjectural titles]] are things we're never going to see again. The [["Deep Cuts" Toad]] is never gonna show up again. We're never gonna get official names for [[Patty's mother and father]]. You look under a random letter, it's probably something we're never going to see the name of. The template is just blatantly not used for that.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. Just because they weren't standardized heavily isn't a very good reason to default to "plain ol' gray". In addition, while this is admittedly an "us" issue, we do find it annoying how similar the two grays actually are when we're scrolling quickly--the higher contrast provided by the colors helps to quell that issue.


====Oppose: Prioritize gray====
====Option 4====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Colors are based on arbitrary choice and not by official merit. I think there can be a system where there are exceptions to allow for certain colored tables on a case by case basis, but allowing it in absolutely every single case is overdoing it.


====Comments====
====Comments====
{{@|Ahemtoday}} I think the difference here and the other conjectural articles is that the planetary bodies in galaxies do not just "lack" publicly accessible names - they are straight up not supposed to have names. The Shogakukan guidebook for ''Mario Galaxy'' does not give planets name. The game does not give planets name. The instruction booklet does not give planets name. The only "source" that applies discrete names for planets are from the developers and we have no reason to think these were intended to be the planets. The These galaxy articles are generally a bit outdated, and I think the mistake in the first place was suggesting that ''some'' of the planets have real names "except where otherwise noted." They largely do not. I think it would would healthier to recognize that they are just different sections of a greater whole, much like areas in courses for the earlier 3D games, and apply titles accordingly. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:44, September 3, 2024 (EDT)
:Hm. I still think them not being supposed to have names is true of much of that category — the ones on particular Toads in modern (well, maybe I have to specify Sticker Star through Origami King these days) Paper Mario come to mind. You raise a point about the article structure not matching the reality of the situation, but as long as the articles are going to have separate subheaders for each planet — and I'm not certain it would be sensible to do otherwise — I think we need to treat their appellations the standard way. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 22:35, September 3, 2024 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 08:43, September 6, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Friday, September 6th, 13:44 GMT
Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% support to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% support to win. If the required support threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use the {{proposal check}} tool to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks (at the earliest).
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "September 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the subject page of the talk page it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Split Wario Land: Shake It! boss levels, GuntherBayBeee (ended July 2, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the New Super Mario Bros. games, the Super Mario Maker games, Super Mario Run, or Super Mario Bros. Wonder
Expand use of "rawsize" gallery class, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended July 19, 2024)
Remove excessive Pokémon lists and images, Super Mario RPG (ended August 28, 2024)
^ NOTE: Proposal is requesting image deletions, which require admins
Do not use t-posing models as infobox images, Nightwicked Bowser (ended September 1, 2024)
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

Remove non-Mario music from Super Smash Bros. sound test pages

I'm proposing to remove music tracks not related to the Mario series and its sub-series from these pages:

This is mainly because the tracks aren't related to Mario and they take up the most space in the pages...to the point where they're really bloated. If this passes, both Ultimate sound pages listed can be deleted and have their content merged into Super Smash Bros. Ultimate sound test if space allows.

Edit: To clarify, tracks with Mario elements like the Famicom Medley (which has the Dr. Mario theme in it) won't be affected by the removals.

Proposer: Mushzoom (talk)
Deadline: September 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Mushzoom (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Sparks (talk) Recently there have been proposals to get rid of non-Mario content in the Super Smash Bros. series. The articles for Taunt and List of Snake's codec conversations only have the Mario related ones for them. This one aims to accomplish a similar goal, so I support.
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer and Sparks.
  4. SeanWheeler (talk) With crossovers as big as Smash, it would be good to clean up the stuff not related to Mario. For years, our coverage policy about crossovers had us cover as much Smash as Smash Wiki. Now, we've got proposals reducing Smash coverage to focus on this wiki's franchise just like how the other wikis would handle Smash. Bulbapedia focuses on the Pokémon in Smash. Funny enough, before Smash Wiki came to NIWA, Bulbapedia linked to Super Mario Wiki for the other Smash characters. It's good to not be a rival to Smash Wiki, and reducing the sound tests to just the Mario songs is another step forward. Now to reduce the list of Spirits.
  5. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per all.
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) Per proposal. While we personally probably wouldn't have touched this until later (we have a very "just say when" approach to our Smash proposals, if you haven't noticed... ;P), we figure it's best to clear this up now if it's fine with everyone else. Anyone looking for a full list of songs is probably checking SSBWiki by this point, and so we should probably narrow it down to only songs relevant to Mario (as well as Donkey Kong/Yoshi/Wario/Mario Kart/other such stuff, of course) by now.
  7. Koopa con Carne (talk) Ah, yes, "One-Winged Angel" and "Awake", my favorite musical pieces from the Mario series. Per proposal and Sparks.
  8. ThePowerPlayer (talk) These tables are nearly direct copies of the "Music" list articles on SmashWiki. Just use the {{NIWA}} template in the References section of each article to provide easy access to the complete song list for each game.
  9. Jdtendo (talk) Per all. Maybe we should start considering Smash Bros. as a "guest appearance" series?
  10. Axii (talk) Per proposer. As always, I support trimming Smash coverage.
  11. Mario (talk) Information isn't really relevant to the goals of MarioWiki. I do think Smash Bros. is still a thorough crossover series and Mario plays a significant role in coverage, so not really Mario's guest appearance, but coverage on MarioWiki should be conditional. We need to remain focused.
  12. Jazama (talk) Per all
  13. EvieMaybe (talk) we don't need to eat smashwiki's lunch.
  14. Yook Bab-imba (talk) Anything that reduces the amount of Smash content gets a yes from me, there's a proper wiki for that.
  15. YoYo (talk) per all
  16. SmokedChili (talk) Per all.

Oppose

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick - I don't really see this being an issue - especially since some of the non-Mario music we otherwise do have representation of, like Mute City and Big Blue in MK8. (Also I would appreciate not having my upcoming omnibus proposal pushed back because people won't stop making other Smash proposals piece-by-piece when it's already been stated by a patroller that it'd be better to do things all at once - and that these "piecemeal" ones shouldn't be done.)
  2. Hewer (talk) Per Doc, plus this would create an inconsistency: the stage list pages list the music tracks for each stage, except for Ultimate because in that game every stage's music is just all the music from that stage's franchise. The Ultimate sound test page we have now doubles as the listing for stage music for Ultimate's stages, so removing it creates a hole in our coverage where Ultimate is the only game in the series that we don't provide that information for. Coverage inconsistencies like this keep arising as people keep making one-at-a-time proposals removing individual elements of Smash coverage, so I agree with Doc that at this point, handling all of it in one would be a much better idea.
  3. Tails777 (talk) I remain pretty steadfast in my general opposing stance on removing Smash content. I have come to terms with some merges (fighters, stages etc), but I still remain against the idea of removing this stuff. Smash is a crossover in the same way that Mario & Sonic and Fortune Street are and the size of the crossover does not change my stance on that. I'm not saying cover everything with an article, but I remain on the side of covering this stuff in some capacity regardless. Per all.
  4. Ahemtoday (talk) Per Doc. Plus, I'm not really a fan of having pages dedicated to incomplete lists — I feel this way about trophies and spirits, too, if I'm honest. I think a page titled "List of X" should have all Xes on it; though I don't entirely know if that all-or-nothing philosophy holds up in practical circumstances.
  5. Metalex123 (talk) Per Doc. I'm not a huge fan of Smash full coverage on MarioWiki personally, but it was moreso because in the past, fully non-Mario elements received articles, like say, Mementos, Sephiroth, and the Killer Eye. It makes sense to keep the info of these pages somewhere on the wiki, in stuff like list pages, while making it obvious the wiki does not focus on that content. I don't like the recent proposals asking to delete everything Smash-related that isn't Mario, when they're clearly on either lists pages, or merged into the game page themselves, both cases making it obvious the wiki does not focus on that series.
  6. Arend (talk) Per all.
  7. OmegaRuby (talk) Per all.
  8. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.

Comments

Just to be sure, music like Wrecking Crew Medley, Famicom Medley (which has the Dr. Mario theme as part of it), Title Theme - 3D Hot Rally, and maybe more won't be affected right. BabyLuigiFire.pngRay Trace(T|C) 17:42, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah this proposals needs exceptions for like the Famicom Medley (I think there are two of these now) that has Mario elements to it. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:44, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
Yes, they won't be affected. Mushzoom (talk) 17:46, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
That creates the obvious issue of making it look like those are the only songs available for the stages they are listed under, when in fact they mix with other "generic" Nintendo songs. To say nothing on how some Mario stages have "miscellaneous" themes available in-game - one example that comes to mind is the Tetris theme available in the Luigi's Mansion stage. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:59, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
I guess we could put some kind of disclaimer on the music list pages to explain that (along the lines of "there are multiple songs in this category, here's only the Mario-related ones"). Also, I don't think this proposal affects the stage pages/lists (as I talked about in my vote), so the individual stage articles for Mario stages will be able to keep their music lists at least. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:20, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
I suppose, but it's still nice to have them all in one place (I'll admit, I'm nowhere near as invested in this one as I was with the Pokemon one. If the pages included actual music files, I probably would be, due to my general fear of files being deleted). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:00, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
It's not like those stage list pages like List of stages debuting in Super Smash Bros. are particularly great to begin with. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 14:46, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
Smash list articles in general are just plain bad. They're slightly trimmed down dumps of text from merged articles, and it's very clear that nobody wants to work on them, and for a good reason. Smash isn't Mario, even before merge these pages just sat there collecting dust, and I still don't understand why Smash is being treated like a sacred cow by some editors. Axii (talk) 15:13, September 1, 2024 (EDT)

@Koopa con Carne - Well I mean, technically, no one's gonna persuade me that Skowl's battle theme isn't just One-Winged Angel :P Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:00, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

It's David Wise's homage, "Winged Angel". -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:07, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) has started a discussion right here somewhat related to this proposal and other ones that had passed concerning Super Smash Bros. coverage on the wiki. I encourage other folks to check it out. - Nintendo101 (talk) 18:09, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

I saw it. It's more or less the same as what we have now, but with the list pages merged into the game pages, as well as non-Super Mario elements being added. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:12, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

Changes

Characters with multiple galleries should have them divided by decade, not medium

This proposal concerns the galleries for Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, Daisy, Yoshi, Wario, Waluigi, and Donkey Kong. In years past, all of these characters originally had single gallery pages for all of the visual material we had, like most subjects with galleries. Overtime, as editors uploaded more material and new games were published, this became unsustainable for them. Their galleries became too big, had difficulty to load for some users, and - for me at least - became difficult to navigate visually. The decision to divide their galleries into smaller ones was wise and substantive. However, the decision to divide them up by the type of media (i.e. artwork, scans, sprites and models, screenshots, etc.) was not. It simply mitigated the problem, and only for the short-term.

Games have continued to come out, editors continue to upload visual treasures, and unless something truly catastrophic happens at Nintendo or the global video game industry, they will continue to produce video games, movies, merchandise, etc. for decades to come. We will inevitably find ourselves with the same problem we had before: galleries too large to navigate efficiently, and even to edit. I personally feel we are already at that point with some of these galleries, especially for Mario.

I would like us to change how we divide these gallery pages for a more permeant solution, where we divide them by decade, not the media. Using our main man as an example, Gallery:Mario artwork (media), Gallery:Mario artwork (miscellaneous), Gallery:Mario scans, Gallery:Mario sprites and models, and Gallery:Mario screenshots will be replaced by Gallery:Mario (1981-1989), Gallery:Mario (1990-1999), Gallery:Mario (2000-2009), Gallery:Mario (2010-2019), and Gallery:Mario (2020-present). Each gallery with be subdivided the same we we typically subdivide galleries (artwork, sprites and models, screenshots, with variance in between as needed for things like scans), but it will only be media released during those respective time periods. At the end of a decade, the Gallery:Mario (2020-present) would be renamed Gallery:Mario (2020-2029), and a new one would be established titled Gallery:Mario (2030-present). For characters that debuted at the very end of a decade, like Daisy, a special amendment would be made where the first gallery would be "Gallery:Princess Daisy (1989-1999)", but all subsequent ones would be the same.

Here is an illustrative example of what one of these galleries would look like, more or less.

The reasons why I think this would work are as follows:

  1. This is sustainable, whereas the current setup is not. Sans time travel, Nintendo will not be publishing any more games during past decades, so there likely would not be any instances where we would need to consider further trimming or splitting galleries for these characters.
  2. This will make the galleries for these characters smaller, ensuring they are more digestible for readers to browse and easier for editors to curate. I really do think some of these galleries have become quite the beasts, and the seer sizes of them make them a little less enjoyable to skim. And ultimately, I would really like visitors to enjoy what we do here and appreciate the visual material in the galleries. Editing some of these galleries as is strains my laptop, and I suspect I am not the only one.
  3. We already organize the material within galleries by release date, so it would be easy enough to divide be decade.
  4. I strongly suspect the user who wants to see screenshots of, say, Bowser in the first Super Mario Bros. is the same type of user who would want to see artwork and sprites of him from that game, so it makes more sense for them to be accessible in the same gallery.
  5. It will be easier for editors to incorporate the new material they come across. Rather than worry they are putting a piece of artwork for a character in the wrong place, they can simply work on the latest gallery for the character.

"But Nintendo101," I hear you type. "This is all fine and dandy, but why would we use the Gregorian calendar instead of console generations or even the consoles themselves?" You ask such good questions. I really respect that about that you. Not all of the material in these galleries come from video games, and it is inherently more intuitive for viewers not very versed in gaming culture to use the same dates they use in their everyday lives. There are also some disagreements on which consoles belong to which generations. So while there are certainly other ways this material can be subdivided, the Gregorian calendar is the simplest.

I offer three options:

  1. Support: Reorganize the affected galleries by decades, not medium, including material currently listed under "miscellaneous." Even miscellaneous pieces were released at some point, and often reflect the style of the games released around the same time, so it would make sense to cluster them together.
  2. Support: Reorganize the affected galleries by decades, but keep the ones for miscellaneous artwork separate. For those who feel like general promotional material makes sense in a gallery of its own. Using the earlier example, there would still be a Gallery:Mario (miscellaneous) alongside those decade articles.
  3. Oppose: Keep galleries separated by medium, not decade. This would also be the "do nothing" option.

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: September 8th, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: Reorganize these galleries by decade, including material currently listed under "miscellaneous"

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) It would be nice to have every image applying to certain games, be it artwork, sprites, screenshots, and so forth, on the same page.
  3. ThePowerPlayer (talk) This would have the added benefit of reducing the main gallery page for each character to be solely a disambiguation, instead of confusingly containing links to sub-galleries while also housing miscellaneous images on the same page.
  4. EvieMaybe (talk) after talking with N101 on discord, i understood the proposal better. i'm still not sure what we'll do for artwork we don't know the date of, but this is a good idea.

Support: Reorganize these galleries by decade, but keep the ones for miscellaneous artwork separate

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Secondary option, per Mario's comments.
  2. PaperSplash (talk) I do think it makes more sense to keep miscellaneous artwork separate.
  3. Mario (talk) If this works out, I'll consider the first option too. Anyway, this isn't sustainable in the future. We're going to need to split Mario's gallery even more whenever we like it or not. Split by decade is going to future proof it but if the resulting pages are too small then we can consider merges in the future.
  4. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  5. DryBonesBandit (talk) I only vote this over Option 1 because it's difficult to name a source in the captions for misc. artwork when the uploaders may not include one.
  6. Jdtendo (talk) Per all.
  7. OmegaRuby (talk) Per all.

Oppose: Keep these galleries organized by medium

  1. Paper Plumm (talk) I think this is just a better way of organising it. Having it split by its current category provides a more cohesive showcase.
  2. PnnyCrygr (talk) Per all. Sorting them by decade just makes the sprites, models, promo art, and scans harder to find in a jumbled clutter of knick-knacks. Sorting by medium is more convenient and uses less space. And as Evie said, sorting by medium helps to specifically look up an image of one medium among those of same medium.

#EvieMaybe (talk) as both a pixel and traditional artist, being able to specifically look up all of mario's sprites or all of mario's artwork for reference material is massively helpful. i'm willing to change my vote if an option that doesn't impact this is proposed, but for now i'm opposing

Comments

Some art in Mario's gallery, we don't know a definite year they're from. File:Marioart8.png, for instance, is uploaded on 2013 but this may originate earlier due the rendering style being reminiscent of the later 2000s. In case we get promo art of Mario between, say, 2009 and 2010 where we can't 100% verify the date (for instance, this is uploaded in 2010, but again this may be years earlier), is there a way we can determine where they'll be placed? Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 22:26, September 1, 2024 (EDT)

I think the first support option would necessitate some detective work, but if one is wary that we do not have the adequate tools or insight necessary to confidently track that information down, I think the second support option would be adequate, where a miscellaneous gallery would still be maintained for neutral promotional material of unclear release date. - Nintendo101 (talk) 22:30, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
That's also an issue that I've been meaning to bring up: "miscellaneous art" sections are ordered with no rhyme or reason whatsoever and never have any dates on anything. Both of those need to be fixed; the origins and times should all be found whenever possible. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:27, September 1, 2024 (EDT)
I do actually try to organize misc art whenever I come across that page and decide to do this. In Mario's case, at one point, I did put all the solo art in one spot, first, and then clumped by age of art. Then the group art is next, and I tried ordering it on like how much Mario is there or how clean the art is. Of course, the page has been drastically changed since, but you may have seen remnants of how I organized it. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 23:38, September 1, 2024 (EDT)

@Paper Plumm these galleries were split into pieces in the first place because they were too large to load efficiently or even edit. The current set-up only ensures we will have to do this again because Nintendo will not stop publishing games and assets. What would you suggest we do to ensure this does not happen? - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:33, September 2, 2024 (EDT)

Hypothetically speaking, what if we split the galleries by decade AND medium? (e.g. Gallery:Mario artwork (media, 1981-1989) or Gallery:Bowser sprites (1991-1999)? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 15:00, September 3, 2024 (EDT)

@Arend I personally would not be interested in a character having so many small galleries dedicated to themselves that could otherwise be consolidated into a focused few. Additionally, your suggestion would not address @EvieMaybe's desire to have all assets on one page - something that I maintain is unsustainable and would have to be split anyways due to the sheer volume of material. From my perspective, we have already reached that point. The current galleries for Mario and Luigi are straight-up unusable, or at least they are on my end and I suspect I am not the alone in that. My laptop struggles loading these galleries (therefore, the point of splitting them in the first place is no longer working) and this is particularly exasperated when I try to correct a mistake and triply so if I want to preview a revision. When these galleries do load, I have difficulty finding what I want. I have been puzzled by some of the opposition and lack of support for this proposal. No sustainable alternatives have been introduced that would address the points I outlined above, and I principally do not think it is wise for us to maintain systemic policies that are unsustainable. While this proposal may not satiate everything people want in galleries, I encourage the opposition to consider that perfect is the enemy of the good. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:33, September 3, 2024 (EDT)
i'm okay with having to load two pages, personally. the issue isn't having everything you want in exactly one gallery, is not having all the stuff you DON'T want mixed in with itEvieMaybe (talk) 18:26, September 4, 2024 (EDT)

Prioritize Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) names for all recurring Paper Mario items that appear in that game

As opposed to their more "recent" names from Super Paper Mario. For all intents and purposes, I believe The Thousand-Year Door's remake should be treated as the more "recent" game as while it is simply a remake of an older game, The Thousand-Year Door's remake also just came out this year on Nintendo's most recently released system to date, while Super Paper Mario released over 17 years ago and is currently only officially playable on now-discontinued systems.

To reiterate from a more practical standpoint, prioritizing the most recent original game with those items that came out 17 years ago as opposed to the very recent remake only causes unneeded confusion among users who are more likely to be looking them up in relation to the latter. I can attest to this myself: during my own playthrough of The Thousand-Year Door's remake, I consulted this wiki's pages for items multiple times and was confused as to why we were still using the now not-so-recent Super Paper Mario names for them as opposed to the ones I was seeing in-game in this very recent remake.

Moreover, there are some names for items in The Thousand-Year Door's remake that have been altered from both their appearances in original game and Super Paper Mario when applicable: namely all uses of "Shroom" have been changed to "Mushroom", and we do reflect those changes now in our article titles and leads, treating The Thousand-Year Door's remake as the most recent game in those instances. Now, I can understand the likely argument for using both those and the Super Paper Mario names where applicable: most of the item names in The Thousand-Year Door's remake apart from the "Shroom" stuff are unchanged from their appearances in the less recent original game, but we can reflect names unique to the more recent remake, I suppose. But that still seems somewhat arbitrary and needlessly inconsistent to me, especially in cases where the names used in the original The Thousand-Year Door, Super Paper Mario and the former game's remake all differ (see Mushroom Fry and Mushroom Roast).

Proposer: PaperSplash (talk)
Deadline: September 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. PaperSplash (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Technetium (talk) Per proposal.
  3. OmegaRuby (talk) We did this for Super Mario RPG, right? This change should be unprecedented. Per proposal.

Oppose

Comments

Decide how to handle conjectural sections about Super Mario Galaxy planets/areas

Yesterday, I've been trying to tag sections about unofficially named areas in Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2 with {{conjecture|section=yes}} and sections about areas whose names come from development data such as internal filenames in those games with {{dev data|section=yes}}, until someone undid my edits regarding the article Gateway Galaxy, so I had to undo my edits regarding the articles Good Egg Galaxy and Honeyhive Galaxy. Now to me, it makes no sense for the beginning text for the Layout and Planets/Areas sections to read as follows: 

'''NOTE''': Unless otherwise noted, all names are unofficial.

NOTE: Unless otherwise noted, all names are unofficial.

As such, I offer the following options:

Option 1
Add the allnames to the {{conjecture}} template and tag layout and planets/areas sections with {{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}} AND sections about areas whose names come from development data with {{dev data|section=yes}}.
Option 2
Add the allnames to the {{conjecture}} template and tag ONLY the layout and planets/areas sections with {{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}}.
Option 3
ONLY tag sections regarding the unofficially named planet(s)/area with {{conjecture|section=yes}} and sections about areas whose names come from development data with {{dev data|section=yes}}.
Option 4
Do NOTHING.

Take a look at the following samples for the first three options: 

====Layout====
{{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}}
=====Starting Planet=====
[[File:Gatewayplanet.png|200px|thumb|left|The Starting Planet]]
This is the first planet that Mario explores in the game. It is where Mario first wakes up after being blasted off [[Peach's Castle]] by [[Kamek]] in the opening cutscene. Here, he meets two yellow [[Luma]]s as well as an apricot Luma who transform into [[Star Bunny|Star Bunnies]] and asks him to play hide and seek with them. When they are all found, a large light beam goes down from the sky, and the gateway appears, and it is where Mario meets [[Rosalina]] for the first time. The planet itself has three holes in its surface (two of which connect to each other directly through the center of the planet), many small patches of flowers, two connecting [[Warp Pipe]]s, several [[rubbery bulb]]s, two small pools of water, two small cottages, a ring of vertically-positioned rock columns, and a castle-like monument on the top. The planet is also surrounded by a light blue atmosphere. Later in the game, Mario must use the power of the [[Red Star]] to collect 100 Purple Coins on this planet, enabling him to use the Red Star onboard the [[Comet Observatory]] as well. Rosalina mentions that this planet is dear to her and she looks forward to visiting it with the Lumas every one hundred years.
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|width=200
|image1=SMG Gateway Garden.png
|caption1=The Starting Planet's garden area
|image2=SMG Gateway Castle.png
|caption2=The castle structure on the Starting Planet
}}
[[Deep Dark Galaxy#Gateway Galaxy Planet|A planet]] found in the [[Deep Dark Galaxy]] resembles the Starting Planet of the Gateway Galaxy. It can be seen from the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Wooden Planet|Wooden Planet]], as well as the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Starting Planet|Starting Planet]]. The planet is accessible via a [[cannon]] on the latter, and is much smaller than the original one. There are three [[Goomba]]s here, and a yellow screw that can be unscrewed by [[Spin|spinning]] it, which will cause the planet to quickly shrink and disappear, at the same time revealing a large ring of [[coin]]s.

After the credits have rolled, when the player has collected 120 [[Power Star]]s and defeated [[Bowser]] for a second time, the ending sequence that plays occurs here. In the sequence, Rosalina thanks the player and says that she will watch over them from beyond the stars. She then walks into the door of the small blue-roofed cottage on the planet and comes out of the door of the Gate, thereby revealing that the two are connected. It is also revealed that the Comet Observatory is most likely hidden somewhere on the planet (although it cannot be seen when the player actively explores it), as it emerges from behind the planet after Rosalina transforms it into a comet once again and pilots it away.

=====[[Black hole|Black Hole]] Planet=====
{{dev data|section=yes}}
[[File:Black Hole Planet.png|200px|thumb|left|[[Mario]] collecting [[Star Chip]]s on the {{conjectural|Black Hole Planet|planet}}.]]
The Black Hole Planet<ref>Name confirmed by files found on noclip. [https://noclip.website/#smg/HeavensDoorGalaxy].</ref> is a planet made of nothing more than dirt, grass and stone. There is a [[black hole]] at its center, and it is also under constant bombardment by a [[meteor]] shower. There are five yellow [[Star Chip]]s on this planet that Mario must collect in order to proceed, as well as a rock with a [[1-Up Mushroom]] on top of it.
{{br}}

=====Metal Planets=====
[[File:SMG Grand Goomba.png|thumb|left|200px|Mario on the planet]]
[[File:Metal Planets.png|200px|thumb|The two {{conjectural|Metal Planets|planet}} in the Gateway Galaxy.]]
These are two metal planets which look very similar to one another. Both planets are brown in color, and have what appears to be metallic green power cables embedded in their surfaces which snake around the planets. In addition, both planets have [[Shock Wave Generator]]s that, when spun, will send vibrations across them, stunning all enemies within range. There are many [[Goomba]]s on both of these planets, as well as several [[Crystal (Super Mario Galaxy)|crystal]]s. Also, on the second of the two is a [[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]], the only one in the entire game. The Flipswitch Area is located inside the second Metal Planet, and is accessed via a [[Warp Pipe]].
{{br}}

=====Flipswitch Area=====
[[File:Flipswitch Area.png|200px|thumb|left|The {{conjectural|Flipswitch Area|area}}, located inside the second of the two Metal Planets.]] 
[[File:SMG Gateway Metal Planet Interior.png|200px|thumb|The draining device]]
When the player enters the Warp Pipe on the bottom of the second Metal Planet, he will be taken to an inverted, spherical metal chamber with many [[Goomba]]s and [[Flipswitch Panel]]s inside. The goal is to shut down the machine and save the first of seven [[Grand Star]]s in the game by activating every Flipswitch Panel found on the inside of the planet to change all of them from yellow to blue, while simultaneously avoiding the many Goombas and electric platforms. There are several coins floating in the air as well.
{{br}}

====Layout====
{{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}}
=====Starting Planet=====
[[File:Gatewayplanet.png|200px|thumb|left|The Starting Planet]]
This is the first planet that Mario explores in the game. It is where Mario first wakes up after being blasted off [[Peach's Castle]] by [[Kamek]] in the opening cutscene. Here, he meets two yellow [[Luma]]s as well as an apricot Luma who transform into [[Star Bunny|Star Bunnies]] and asks him to play hide and seek with them. When they are all found, a large light beam goes down from the sky, and the gateway appears, and it is where Mario meets [[Rosalina]] for the first time. The planet itself has three holes in its surface (two of which connect to each other directly through the center of the planet), many small patches of flowers, two connecting [[Warp Pipe]]s, several [[rubbery bulb]]s, two small pools of water, two small cottages, a ring of vertically-positioned rock columns, and a castle-like monument on the top. The planet is also surrounded by a light blue atmosphere. Later in the game, Mario must use the power of the [[Red Star]] to collect 100 Purple Coins on this planet, enabling him to use the Red Star onboard the [[Comet Observatory]] as well. Rosalina mentions that this planet is dear to her and she looks forward to visiting it with the Lumas every one hundred years.
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|width=200
|image1=SMG Gateway Garden.png
|caption1=The Starting Planet's garden area
|image2=SMG Gateway Castle.png
|caption2=The castle structure on the Starting Planet
}}
[[Deep Dark Galaxy#Gateway Galaxy Planet|A planet]] found in the [[Deep Dark Galaxy]] resembles the Starting Planet of the Gateway Galaxy. It can be seen from the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Wooden Planet|Wooden Planet]], as well as the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Starting Planet|Starting Planet]]. The planet is accessible via a [[cannon]] on the latter, and is much smaller than the original one. There are three [[Goomba]]s here, and a yellow screw that can be unscrewed by [[Spin|spinning]] it, which will cause the planet to quickly shrink and disappear, at the same time revealing a large ring of [[coin]]s.

After the credits have rolled, when the player has collected 120 [[Power Star]]s and defeated [[Bowser]] for a second time, the ending sequence that plays occurs here. In the sequence, Rosalina thanks the player and says that she will watch over them from beyond the stars. She then walks into the door of the small blue-roofed cottage on the planet and comes out of the door of the Gate, thereby revealing that the two are connected. It is also revealed that the Comet Observatory is most likely hidden somewhere on the planet (although it cannot be seen when the player actively explores it), as it emerges from behind the planet after Rosalina transforms it into a comet once again and pilots it away.

=====[[Black hole|Black Hole]] Planet=====
[[File:Black Hole Planet.png|200px|thumb|left|[[Mario]] collecting [[Star Chip]]s on the {{conjectural|Black Hole Planet|planet}}.]]
The Black Hole Planet<ref>Name confirmed by files found on noclip. [https://noclip.website/#smg/HeavensDoorGalaxy].</ref> is a planet made of nothing more than dirt, grass and stone. There is a [[black hole]] at its center, and it is also under constant bombardment by a [[meteor]] shower. There are five yellow [[Star Chip]]s on this planet that Mario must collect in order to proceed, as well as a rock with a [[1-Up Mushroom]] on top of it.
{{br}}

=====Metal Planets=====
[[File:SMG Grand Goomba.png|thumb|left|200px|Mario on the planet]]
[[File:Metal Planets.png|200px|thumb|The two {{conjectural|Metal Planets|planet}} in the Gateway Galaxy.]]
These are two metal planets which look very similar to one another. Both planets are brown in color, and have what appears to be metallic green power cables embedded in their surfaces which snake around the planets. In addition, both planets have [[Shock Wave Generator]]s that, when spun, will send vibrations across them, stunning all enemies within range. There are many [[Goomba]]s on both of these planets, as well as several [[Crystal (Super Mario Galaxy)|crystal]]s. Also, on the second of the two is a [[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]], the only one in the entire game. The Flipswitch Area is located inside the second Metal Planet, and is accessed via a [[Warp Pipe]].
{{br}}

=====Flipswitch Area=====
[[File:Flipswitch Area.png|200px|thumb|left|The {{conjectural|Flipswitch Area|area}}, located inside the second of the two Metal Planets.]] 
[[File:SMG Gateway Metal Planet Interior.png|200px|thumb|The draining device]]
When the player enters the Warp Pipe on the bottom of the second Metal Planet, he will be taken to an inverted, spherical metal chamber with many [[Goomba]]s and [[Flipswitch Panel]]s inside. The goal is to shut down the machine and save the first of seven [[Grand Star]]s in the game by activating every Flipswitch Panel found on the inside of the planet to change all of them from yellow to blue, while simultaneously avoiding the many Goombas and electric platforms. There are several coins floating in the air as well.
{{br}}

====Layout====
=====Starting Planet=====
{{conjecture|section=yes}}
[[File:Gatewayplanet.png|200px|thumb|left|The Starting Planet]]
This is the first planet that Mario explores in the game. It is where Mario first wakes up after being blasted off [[Peach's Castle]] by [[Kamek]] in the opening cutscene. Here, he meets two yellow [[Luma]]s as well as an apricot Luma who transform into [[Star Bunny|Star Bunnies]] and asks him to play hide and seek with them. When they are all found, a large light beam goes down from the sky, and the gateway appears, and it is where Mario meets [[Rosalina]] for the first time. The planet itself has three holes in its surface (two of which connect to each other directly through the center of the planet), many small patches of flowers, two connecting [[Warp Pipe]]s, several [[rubbery bulb]]s, two small pools of water, two small cottages, a ring of vertically-positioned rock columns, and a castle-like monument on the top. The planet is also surrounded by a light blue atmosphere. Later in the game, Mario must use the power of the [[Red Star]] to collect 100 Purple Coins on this planet, enabling him to use the Red Star onboard the [[Comet Observatory]] as well. Rosalina mentions that this planet is dear to her and she looks forward to visiting it with the Lumas every one hundred years.
{{multiple image
|align=right
|direction=horizontal
|width=200
|image1=SMG Gateway Garden.png
|caption1=The Starting Planet's garden area
|image2=SMG Gateway Castle.png
|caption2=The castle structure on the Starting Planet
}}
[[Deep Dark Galaxy#Gateway Galaxy Planet|A planet]] found in the [[Deep Dark Galaxy]] resembles the Starting Planet of the Gateway Galaxy. It can be seen from the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Wooden Planet|Wooden Planet]], as well as the [[Deep Dark Galaxy#Starting Planet|Starting Planet]]. The planet is accessible via a [[cannon]] on the latter, and is much smaller than the original one. There are three [[Goomba]]s here, and a yellow screw that can be unscrewed by [[Spin|spinning]] it, which will cause the planet to quickly shrink and disappear, at the same time revealing a large ring of [[coin]]s.

After the credits have rolled, when the player has collected 120 [[Power Star]]s and defeated [[Bowser]] for a second time, the ending sequence that plays occurs here. In the sequence, Rosalina thanks the player and says that she will watch over them from beyond the stars. She then walks into the door of the small blue-roofed cottage on the planet and comes out of the door of the Gate, thereby revealing that the two are connected. It is also revealed that the Comet Observatory is most likely hidden somewhere on the planet (although it cannot be seen when the player actively explores it), as it emerges from behind the planet after Rosalina transforms it into a comet once again and pilots it away.

=====[[Black hole|Black Hole]] Planet=====
{{dev data|section=yes}}
[[File:Black Hole Planet.png|200px|thumb|left|[[Mario]] collecting [[Star Chip]]s on the {{conjectural|Black Hole Planet|planet}}.]]
The Black Hole Planet<ref>Name confirmed by files found on noclip. [https://noclip.website/#smg/HeavensDoorGalaxy].</ref> is a planet made of nothing more than dirt, grass and stone. There is a [[black hole]] at its center, and it is also under constant bombardment by a [[meteor]] shower. There are five yellow [[Star Chip]]s on this planet that Mario must collect in order to proceed, as well as a rock with a [[1-Up Mushroom]] on top of it.
{{br}}

=====Metal Planets=====
{{conjecture|section=yes}}
[[File:SMG Grand Goomba.png|thumb|left|200px|Mario on the planet]]
[[File:Metal Planets.png|200px|thumb|The two {{conjectural|Metal Planets|planet}} in the Gateway Galaxy.]]
These are two metal planets which look very similar to one another. Both planets are brown in color, and have what appears to be metallic green power cables embedded in their surfaces which snake around the planets. In addition, both planets have [[Shock Wave Generator]]s that, when spun, will send vibrations across them, stunning all enemies within range. There are many [[Goomba]]s on both of these planets, as well as several [[Crystal (Super Mario Galaxy)|crystal]]s. Also, on the second of the two is a [[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]], the only one in the entire game. The Flipswitch Area is located inside the second Metal Planet, and is accessed via a [[Warp Pipe]].
{{br}}

=====Flipswitch Area=====
{{conjecture|section=yes}}
[[File:Flipswitch Area.png|200px|thumb|left|The {{conjectural|Flipswitch Area|area}}, located inside the second of the two Metal Planets.]] 
[[File:SMG Gateway Metal Planet Interior.png|200px|thumb|The draining device]]
When the player enters the Warp Pipe on the bottom of the second Metal Planet, he will be taken to an inverted, spherical metal chamber with many [[Goomba]]s and [[Flipswitch Panel]]s inside. The goal is to shut down the machine and save the first of seven [[Grand Star]]s in the game by activating every Flipswitch Panel found on the inside of the planet to change all of them from yellow to blue, while simultaneously avoiding the many Goombas and electric platforms. There are several coins floating in the air as well.
{{br}}

Likewise, the source of the {{conjecture}} template reads as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#fff7f7;border:1px solid #b77">
The title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{derived|}}}|, but the current name has been '''derived''' from some available official information|; an official name for the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}'s subject has not been found, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}. If an official name is found, then the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|}}}|changed|moved}} to its appropriate title.
</div><includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with {{#if:{{{derived|}}}|derived|conjectural}} {{#if:{{{section|}}}|sections|titles}}]]}}</includeonly>

However, once this proposal passes with either Option 1 or Option 2, the source will read as follows: 

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#fff7f7;border:1px solid #b77">
{{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|The titles of all sections within|The title of}} this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} {{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|are|is}} '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}{{#if:{{{derived|}}}|, but the current name has been '''derived''' from some available official information|; {{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|official names for specific sections' subjects have|an official name for the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}'s subject has}} not been found, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}. {{#if:{{{allnames|}}}|If an official name is found for one of its sections, then it should be changed to its appropriate title|If an official name is found, then the {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|}}}|changed|moved}} to its appropriate title}}.
</div><includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with {{#if:{{{derived|}}}|derived|conjectural}} {{#if:{{{section|}}}{{{allnames|}}}|sections|titles}}]]}}</includeonly>

As such, putting {{conjecture|allnames=yes|section=yes}} will result in this:

The titles of all sections within this section are conjectural, unless otherwise noted; official names for specific sections' subjects have not been found, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors. If an official name is found for one of its sections, then it should be changed to its appropriate title.

That way, we'll be able to remove "'''NOTE''': Unless otherwise noted, all names are unofficial." from the Planets/Areas section on every Super Mario Galaxy galaxy page in favor of the {{dev data}} and/or {{conjecture}} template(s).

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: September 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My primary choice.

Option 2

Option 3

  1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My secondary choice.
  2. Ahemtoday (talk) I don't see any particular reason we would need an entire feature of these templates just for Galaxy's planet lists. The fact of the matter is: these planets are using conjectural or dev data–derived names. That's what the templates are for. I find the argument that they're only for situations editors will be able to fix wildly unconvincing considering I'd wager over two-thirds of Category:Articles with conjectural titles are things we're never going to see again. The "Deep Cuts" Toad is never gonna show up again. We're never gonna get official names for Patty's mother and father. You look under a random letter, it's probably something we're never going to see the name of. The template is just blatantly not used for that.

Option 4

Comments

@Ahemtoday I think the difference here and the other conjectural articles is that the planetary bodies in galaxies do not just "lack" publicly accessible names - they are straight up not supposed to have names. The Shogakukan guidebook for Mario Galaxy does not give planets name. The game does not give planets name. The instruction booklet does not give planets name. The only "source" that applies discrete names for planets are from the developers and we have no reason to think these were intended to be the planets. The These galaxy articles are generally a bit outdated, and I think the mistake in the first place was suggesting that some of the planets have real names "except where otherwise noted." They largely do not. I think it would would healthier to recognize that they are just different sections of a greater whole, much like areas in courses for the earlier 3D games, and apply titles accordingly. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:44, September 3, 2024 (EDT)

Hm. I still think them not being supposed to have names is true of much of that category — the ones on particular Toads in modern (well, maybe I have to specify Sticker Star through Origami King these days) Paper Mario come to mind. You raise a point about the article structure not matching the reality of the situation, but as long as the articles are going to have separate subheaders for each planet — and I'm not certain it would be sensible to do otherwise — I think we need to treat their appellations the standard way. Ahemtoday (talk) 22:35, September 3, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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