Talk:Yoshi (species)

Knife, Yoshis do change color in Super Mario Sunshine. Haven't you completely played the game? Wa _T^C_@^Y 21:02, 13 December 2006 (EST)

I have and SoS states that only the main Yoshi has appeared in it. See the main Yoshi's talk page.Knife (talk)

I personally think the Yoshis on sunshine are a sub spiecies of Yoshis who change color as they eat.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pal101 (talk).

Colors

Shouldnt ALL those different color Yoshi's be merged with this? - Ultimatetoad

Ummm....hello? - Ultimatetoad

I agree. There can be a section about the colors of Yoshis, similar to Toads. I don't see many distinctive properties about the Yoshi colors and they should be merged into this article.Knife (talk) 20:34, 28 February 2007 (EST)

I agree as well. Per Knife. --KPH2293 21:46, 28 February 2007 (EST)

I disagree because they are a sub-species. ^Plumber 15:03, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

Excess Express.

I've played the game, but I don't remember being any Yoshis (other than your partner of course). --Bentendo 16:50, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

neither do I, Xzelion^ETC

He's on the train, shows up randomly and says he hopes he isn't late getting home or his wife will kill him or something. -- Sir Grodus

He also talks about his love of curry, and his preference of it over meat... (Sometimes.) --YellowYoshi398 16:54, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

hmm.... I never seen one on there... I'll take your word for it, Xzelion^ETC

Really? I don't remember that! Happily I'm almost there on my second play through (about to defeat cortez). Could you explain where he is? --Bentendo 11:49, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

I can't really remember, I think near the dining cart or in it, but only occasionally; I think he might be green or orange or something. -- Sir Grodus

He isn't there the first time you play through.

The Yoshi is in the dining car, standing next to the door that leads to the cabins 003-005. He's green, though. He isn't there the first time you play, through, but every time you ride the Excess Express again, he shows up randomly. He's also the only Yoshi in the game besides the Yoshi Kid. Maybe the developers thought having a Yoshi in your party would make up for that, so they didn't include that many. That Yoshi has a saddle, too... --Jolene

I can verify Jolene's statement, if you haven't been convinced already. It's a very well hidden Easter Egg. Thanks for describing it for me, Jolene! Stumpers! 15:53, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Plural

Is the plural form of the species name Yoshis or Yoshies? It's actually used both ways depending on which game you play, I've heard. I just need to know which one was used more recently then. Maybe in Yoshi's Island DS? Stumpers! 16:02, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Theoretically etymologically, it should be Yoshi, but mistakes like this happen all the time, or it could be an exception.Saudy^Talk!

Hmm... I remember there was a web site that talked about this. Stumpers! 17:03, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Canonical spelling is Yoshis.Knife (talk) 22:23, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

No. Canonical spelling is both Yoshis and Yoshies. It's explained in the article.

The plural for Yoshi has often come up in debates. Some argue that "Yoshis" is the proper term, while others argue that "Yoshies" is correct. Japanese plurals have no indicative marks, meaning that "Yoshi" is another (unlikely) possibility. Nintendo of America has used both "Yoshies" and "Yoshis" in the Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance versions of Yoshi's Island, respectively. It could be that both versions are valid.

To have it said, I somehow dislike the concept of "canon". - Cobold (talk · contribs) 15:24, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

I think it's Yoshis. It is even spelled like that in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games! Superfiremario

Yoob

is he realy a Yoshi? I thought he was a robot... Max2 (talk)

He does seem robotic, but he's probably still worthy of mention as he's clearly based on the Yoshis. I agree with you in that I don't think he should be listed under Notable Yoshis, though. YELLOWYOSHI398

i think yoob is a yoshi.purifieda

Yoshi (isle delfino)?

Either we should make another section, or make a new article! The Yoshis on Isle Delfino CAN'T be the Yoshis we know! That might have to change this Yoshi article to Yoshi (yoshi's island) or something. Tell me no or yes. It's facts! I mean, does Yoshi have cancer all the time? No! New article, or new section?
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Minimariolover10 (talk).

New section would probably be best, or just put Isle Delfino info in the appropriate sections in this article. Just because the game mechanics are different doesn't mean these are a different species of Yoshi. They are all the same Yoshis - gameplay is different between all games. And I don't think any character has ever had cancer in the Mario games. -- Son of Suns

Actually the Super Mario Sunshine's manual says Yoshis found in Isle Delfino can't stand water, so it's likely they are separate from the other Yoshis.

Mister Wu (talk) 20:06, 11 February 2015 (EST)

Let's just do another section. I'm just saying, those can't be Yoshi's Island Yoshis! And I was only kidding about cancer, because ya know how they're about to do die if they're green. Minimariolover10

i think yoshis from isle delfino are yoshi's island yoshis.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Purifieda (talk).

Gold Yoshi

Why isn't there a gold yoshi article cos he appeared as an unlockobable character in yoshi's storySuper Yoshi10Lookey This

There was White and Black Yoshi... do you have video footage or anything that we could use as proof? Stumpers! 00:01, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Mario Super Sluggers

Why is there no info about Mario Super Sluggers in this article? Strange...F g

Everything where there's a single character called "Yoshi" on the selection screen is placed in the Yoshi article. Stumpers! 00:02, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Merge color Yoshies into Yoshi (species)

Template:SettledTPP Template:ProposalOutcome Black Yoshi, Red Yoshi, Yellow Yoshi, Blue Yoshi, Orange Yoshi, White Yoshi, Light Blue Yoshi, Brown Yoshi, Pink Yoshi, Green Yoshi and Purple Yoshi. Most of those Yoshies have minute differences between them, and the ones that do have notable differences, well, those differences just aren't notable enough. If we leave, say, White, Black, Red, Blue and Yellow split and merge the rest, it wouldn't be consistent, whereas if we leave one or two really major ones, it would be fair, like Blue Toad and Yellow Toad.

Proposer: Reversinator (talk)
Deadline: 24 February, 2010 20:00

Support

1. Reversinator (talk) Proposer.
2. Red Shell 68066vr (talk) Per Reversinator.

Oppose

1. Tucayo (talk) - This has been rejected previously. Yoshis are different, have different powers, abilities, etc
2. Time Q (talk): Strict NO. Per Tucayo, they are all different, there are also some sources (comics) which are not yet included in the wiki in which there are also differently-colored Yoshis who have different caracteristics etc. This merging mania on the wiki has to have an end. We're the Mario Wiki, what else could we cover exactly if not a major species in the Mario series?
3. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) Per all. This issue had already brought up.
4. Supermariofan14 (talk) Per Tucayo.

Comments

@Tucayo: You say that the idea was rejected in the past, but now that I look at this talk page, there's a section towards the top of the page in where Knife and KPH (both sysops at the time) agree in merging the articles. Although why it never happened is beyond my knowledge. --Garlic Man (talk)

All right, where has this been previously discussed? Reversinator (talk)

I also notice that most of the Yoshi color articles are either short, one-section articles (e.g. Orange Yoshi and Purple Yoshi), and some, like Light Blue Yoshi are a collection of one-line sections, many of them simply discussing a color-change of Yoshi as a playable character. If one of Yoshi's color swaps is Light Blue, does that mean that it is then a different character entirely? If anybody remembers the Mario (species) article (which is now in BJAODN I believe), it was something silly about Mario being a species because of his different "pigments". That article was treated as a joke (appropriately so), but the way these Yoshi articles are written imply that when Yoshi from Super Mario Galaxy eats a fruit and becomes an orange color, it has become a different character rather than just a differently-colored generic Yoshi. This is something that should be cleared up. --Garlic Man (talk)

If it's just a different color change as associated with an ability, I think it should stay like that in the Yoshi article, as it refers the color of the Yoshi. Just don't list directly as the main orange Yoshi; just say "In Super Mario Galaxy 2, when a Green Yoshi eats blah, he changes color, which is orange. Note that this is not an actual orange Yoshi, just a color change that represents an orange Yoshi" or something like that. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)

You still haven't explained where it was originally discussed. Reversinator (talk)

Well, it wasn't directly explained here, but it's still the same subject. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)

This proposal of the opposite of that proposal. Reversinator (talk)

@Garlic: well, yeah, but that was 2007 :P We may have to see what they (Knife) think now. @Reversinator: Proposals. All failed. --™ The 'Shroom 20:36, 17 February 2010 (EST)

@Reversinator: I know it was the opposite, but it's the main reason why we have the Yoshi pages all separate and other colored enemies merged. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)

Assuming

Are we just assuming things about Yoshis? First of all, how do we know the Yoshi that appears as a playable character in Mario games is the same as the Green Yoshi that appears in games as a species? Shouldn't the appearances of Yoshi where it is a species be specific solely to the Green Yoshis page? The appearances where he is playable in spin-offs or is clearly his own character are the only appearances that should even be on his page.

Also, there's problems with the Yoshis appearing in SMG2. IT's not the light blue or orange Yoshis at all, it's a singular Green Yoshi, or the Yoshi himself, turning into an ORange and Light Blue Yoshi. It's not the same though because Yoshi has changed colors before, always first as Green Yoshi or "the" Yoshi, and you can even see this Yoshis shoe colors aren't even changing. How does that count as ORange and Light Blue Yoshi appearing as they are listed to? Panchito 08:26, 2 March 2010 (EST)

The color changes are worth mentioning because they represent the color being changed to. We can just say, "In Monosodium Glutamate 2, orange is one of the colors Yoshi transforms into, blah blah blah," because it's still an orange Yoshi, just a differently colored Green Yoshi.

For the Green Yoshis part, usually, the gaming manual or some other source says "Mario this time rides on Yoshi!" and they don't say a Green Yoshi. But multiple Green Yoshis appear in the game, and we know that Yoshi can't appear in more than one place at a time, no matter how freaky Nintendo is, so that makes that green Yoshi a species.

Ray Trace^(T|C)

Yoshis

I've seen articles use Yoshi, Yoshis and I think even Yoshies as the plural form of Yoshi. So what is it? Hello, I'm Time Turner.

It's already been discussed. Time Questions 09:09, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Umm

Your getting it all wrong when Yoshi first appeared, he first appear in The game with the same name as Yoshi. But, if you mean the Mario series, your right. ~~User:Paper Culex~~

The First Appearance concerns the overall Mario series, so the article is correct. - Walkazo 18:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Putting all colors of Yoshies into one article

Template:SettledTPP Template:ProposalOutcome I think we should put all the colors in one article, so that helps the wiki get more organized.

Proposer: MarioManiac (talk)
Deadline: June 1, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. MarioManiac (talk) Per my proposal.
2. Mpeng (talk) Given that all of the different colored Yoshi articles don't seem to have all too much useful information, I say merge them. Unless someone can come along and add a considerable amount to each of them.

Oppose

1. Goomba's Shoe15 (talk) each yoshi has it's own abilities and appear in seperate games at the same time it makes no sense to merge them into one article also this article would be huge and overly confusing since there are like 10 different colors of Yoshi who have appeared through out the years and each one of them would have to be given a bio section to detail what they have done in the mario series which would be huge since the different colors of Yoshi often appear in many different games serving many roles.
2. Reddragon19k (talk) Per Goomba! Red Yoshi appeared many times! So does the green one! Leave it!
3. Tails777 (talk) Per Goomba's Shoe15. Each Yoshi was different appearences and abilites. It would be hard to include all info on one page of every Yoshi colour.
4. Doopliss101 (talk) Per Goomba's Shoe15 and Tails777.
5. Zero777 (talk) We already discuss about this, but per all.
6. DKPetey99 (talk) Different color ones appear in different games. I guess thats my way of saying: "Per the Goomba in a shoe-sized 15 That was lame! Per Goomba's Shoe15."
7. Mariomario64 (talk) Per those who per Goomba's Shoe15.
8. yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk)Per the best thing Goombas Shoe15has ever said,and per the opposing comments on the earlier version of this proposal
9. BoygeyDude (talk)
10. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) I have dealt with this extensively before and my reasons for opposing any split between these articles stand. My reason: all have different abilities.
11. Mario4Ever (talk) Je suis d'accord avec tout le monde.
12. M&SG (talk) - Not all Yoshi colors have appeared in each game. Keeping them separate helps to figure out which games they've appeared in, along with their abilities.
13. Mariomaster228 (talk) Per M&SG.
14. Mario vs Luigi (talk) Per all.
15. SuperYoshiBros (talk) Per all.
16. UltraMario3000 (talk) Per all.

Comments

@Goomba: We can just give each color it's own section.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by MarioManiac (talk).

Who signed this? Superfiremario

Ta-daa. Yoshiwaker

@MarioManiac you want to merge 11 colors into one article despite the fact that each some colors have played a large part in the Mario series and have displayed unique abilities not to mention the length of said article fitting in info on each game apperance by each color of yoshi which would create a huge article that would be less efficent than what we have now Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

By the way, isn't there a TPP right up there that is simmeral to this? Superfiremario

Rideable

Should we move the info of Yoshi being rideable here? I think the Yoshis you ride are Yoshi species. Superfiremario

yes, i think all yoshis are yoshi species. purifieda

Yeah, most of the info in the Powers and Abilities section of Yoshi's page can be moved here, although his page should still mention all the abilities. - Walkazo 09:54, 7 August 2011 (EDT)

how can you tell is a Yoshi is female?
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Grand Master Gamer (talk).

Dialogue. - Walkazo 11:43, 28 June 2014 (EDT)

So is the Yoshi species basically an all male race?

Are Yoshis no longer dinosaurs?

The Nintendo U.K.'s "Nintendo Kids Club" site says in the "Read & discover" section that Yoshi is not a dinosaur. Is it just a "mistake" of this site or has any information that states that Yoshi is a dinosaur been removed from recent games as well?Mister Wu (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2014 (EST)

Source for the artwork of Yoshi without a shoe

What is the source of this very interesting artwork? It seems a Japanese guide or manual related to Super Mario World but there's not much information about it. Mister Wu (talk) 20:15, 11 February 2015 (EST)

I have an idea.

Why don't you add the order of Yoshis in Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Island DS? --Mushroom Koop (talk) 08:42, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Like what we do for the Koopalings? Sounds like a good idea - but perhaps we can do even better by replacing the bulleted list in the Colouration section with a chart about more than just those games - like a presence/absence chart on a spinoff page, only with the order numbers in the Yoshi platformers and the number of steps required to get each colour in PM:TTYD instead of plain check marks. - Walkazo 17:47, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Golden Yoshi in the colours section

Should we add a Golden Yoshi alongside Magenta Yoshi in the colours section, because they are both from the same games? (T · C) 12:59, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

Bahamutt, Dorrie, and Plessie

I have decided to put these three as related to the Yoshi based upon their Japanese names being puns/following the same structure, and their similar heads/anatomy in general/roles, depending on the exact one. Would anyone be opposed to this? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:00, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I'm a bit iffy on Dorrie, but I can see the other two, after all Dorrie had goggles and no shell. And I think there is enough confusion on the Dorrie Page. Chat Man (talk) 00:06, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Doshi, in Japanese. As is Bahamutt. And it was only a shell in prerelease, in the final, it's a saddle, according to the book included with the All-Stars 25th anniversary thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:10, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I don't know, weren't you disgusted with the nature of my proposal, and how it's science, and now you're saying the opposite (With a name resembling Yoshi's as proof), stay consistent man. Chat Man (talk) 00:13, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I beg your pardon? Dorrie is still based off of a plesiosaur, just a plesiosaur-version of a Yoshi. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:22, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I think that's a bit of a stretch, perhaps it's best to just say Dorrie is the the species, cause you know odyssey and all. And I stand by my proposal (although I found an Infobox category for species based on, so that might be a nice thing to try and fail to propose). If there's one thing I can do, it's admit when I'm wrong, I believe you to be right for this case... I still think my proposal is right. Chat Man (talk) 00:27, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I did say related, not outright a member of the Yoshi species. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:29, 6 November 2017 (EST)

How do you plan on doing that? If so do you have references? Chat Man (talk) 00:30, 6 November 2017 (EST)

The "related" section of the infobox, due something similar for the template. As for references, I'd say the Japanese name being derived from it, coupled with the similar head shape and rideability, is enough of a reference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:33, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I meant more reference to where you found the name, but I still think that it's a bit loose to be added as a fact. But has enough proof to be logical. I'll stay neutral on this one. Be wary, I'm still not convinced that's enough though. (Also I don't think rideability is a qualification for yoshi, just saying). Chat Man (talk) 00:40, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I imagine the name came from a shokakugan guide or the Japanese Mario Party Advance. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:41, 6 November 2017 (EST)

The name came definitely earlier than Mario Party Advance, since Template:Media link, so I guess it came from the Nintendo Official Guidebook of Super Mario 64.--Mister Wu (talk) 11:05, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Eh, as long as the administrators are fine, go ahead and add it. Chat Man (talk) 00:48, 6 November 2017 (EST)

The problem is what you mean by related. Did the designers of Dorrie and Plessie follow guidelines similar to those used to design Yoshi and named the characters with the 「ッシー」 suffix accordingly? Likely yes. Does this mean that they are all related species? Definitely not! Currently Yoshi is not considered a dinosaur, with the bio of Nintendo co., Ltd. from last year noting how the saddle is indeed a shell and suggesting that the possible candidates to identify Yoshi's species are dinosaurs and turtles. This year's interview about the origin of Yoshi finally clarified that indeed Yoshi had a shell on the back and was intended to be related to turtles from the start. Plessie on the other hand is officially considered a dinosaur. To remind you how similar development guidelines can often create characters which are then completely unrelated from a species point of view, I'd like to remind you how Madame Broode and the Broodals were almost surely based on Bowser and the Koopalings, yet they are completely unrelated from a species point of view, since the formers are rabbits, the latters turtles.--Mister Wu (talk) 11:05, 6 November 2017 (EST)

This comes from what, Nintendo of Europe or something? I'm talking something I'm pretty sure Miyamoto said (it was him or one of the other two). I've come to sort of distrust things that NoE have said, due to the fact that they so heavily contradict things that have been previously said. If Yoshi's not a Dinosaur, why is he the star inhabitant of Dinosaur Land? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:30, 6 November 2017 (EST)

The one who said that Yoshi is related to turtles is none other than Takashi Tezuka, the director of Super Mario World and character designer as well (he himself made some sketches of Yoshi's preliminary design, correcting Shigefumi Hino's first sketch of Yoshi which was lizard-like). And this is not an European thing, it's on the Japanese site as well, with the very same text. Anyway, if you read the original Japanese manual of Super Mario World, you'll see that Yoshi was actually introduced as a 「ドラゴン」, a dragon (which is also why the Dragon Coins were named like that!), Template:Media link. Nonetheless, on Template:Media link Yoshi was indeed stated to be a 「恐竜」, a dinosaur, as well. Regarding him being a turtle, well, this is actually pretty old, as Template:Media link, and in the Super Mario History Booklet released in 2010 Template:Media link, the only difference is that since last year Yoshi being a turtle started to appear in official bios and nowadays Tezuka speaks more openly, stating that Yoshi is indeed intended to be a turtle.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:06, 6 November 2017 (EST)

OK. He's the one that said he was originally intended to be a turtle, now I remember But then he said that "The saddle was supposed to be his shell." This seems to inticatie that that hideous skinny preliminary Yoshi that can be seen with some supplemental material with the SNES Classic was the "turtle" design. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2017 (EST)

That's what he stated in 2010, look at what he states now:I kind of forced the design through, saying, “It’s related to turtles.”, Hisashi Nogami also sated that the saddle on his back is A shell. Even after I joined the company, Tezuka kept insisting that it was a shell., finally the interviewer, Akinori Sao, stated And that’s how Super Mario World, which debuted Yoshi as kin to turtles, became the top-selling title worldwide for Super NES.. Ultimately, little has changed from what he already stated in 2010, the little difference is nonetheless there: before it was a thing of the past, now Yoshi is stated to have been designed as related to turtles and to actually have a shell on his back, which perfectly reflects what Yoshi's Japanese bio from yesteryear suggested when it stated Even though there's a shell on his back, we actually don't know whether Yoshi's a dinosaur or a turtle!.--

Mister Wu (talk) 19:32, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Shelled dinosaurs exist. But they're more Bowser-like. And as ancient reptiles, they are, indeed, related to turtles. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:38, 6 November 2017 (EST)

On a related note, up until the most recent Nintendo 3DS / Wii U games, the Super Smash Bros. series has consistently called Yoshi a dinosaur. Maybe Tezuka's position explains the sudden stop. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:42, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I'd stll like an explanation behind Dinosaur Land. If Yoshi is a turtle dragon and Rex is a dragon, the only dinosaurs left are Dino Rhino and Dino Torch, found solely on Chocolate Island, and Reznor, which is a 3-time miniboss. Oh yeah, and that ghost Eerie. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:46, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I think that, conceptually, Yoshi is not a dinosaur, but it's been an established factoid for over twenty years that it's really silly to backpedal on it now. Stranger things have happened, though. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:55, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Well, the official Japanese guide of Super Mario World stated that he was a dinosaur as well, not to say that the Japanese bio of last year still mentioned the word dinosaur. It's a term that also appeared in Japan, although there he was mainly referred to as a dragon. To go more in the detail about the relationship between Yoshi and Dinosaur Land, though, Tezuka actually also talked about this in this year's interview: When we started making Super Mario World, we were working with the concept of a dinosaur land, so I had Hino do art for a kind of reptile.. On Super Smash Bros., the dates indeed match, as Super Smash Bros. Brawl was released in 2008, before the 2010 reveal that Yoshi was intended to be a turtle and the subsequent ongoing process that is apparently more and more leading to Yoshi being considered a turtle. But if you want to look how important was stating that Yoshi's saddle is a shell in starting this process, look no further than the Mario & Sonic series: after Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (the first) Yoshi was no longer stated to be a dinosaur, and indeed it was actually the DS version of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games that revealed in 2009 that Yoshi's saddle is actually a shell.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Aaaaaaaanyways, if none of Yoshi, Bahamutt, Dorrie, and Plessie are dinosaurs, but all are reptiles, and all but the first were in some manner inspired by the first and theme-named in the original language, can they not all be considered related then? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:06, 6 November 2017 (EST)

I don't see why not, regardless of any apparent current story shenanigans. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:15, 6 November 2017 (EST)

You can consider Bahamutt, Dorrie and Plessie related, as they all seem to follow similar design guidelines, as even the Japanese names imply, but I think you should add somewhere (maybe the main pages of those three?) why they are considered related, if the reason is not already stated, so there's no confusion.--Mister Wu (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2017 (EST)

bahamutt is like the only Yoshi look-alike. IMO plessie and dorrie look NOTHING like Yoshi New Super Luigi

The Japanese names and head-shape on both of the others are Yoshi-like. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2017 (EST)

Merge all or certain color Yoshis into Yoshi (species)

Template:SettledTPP Template:ProposalOutcome This proposal will hopefully set out to do what the above tried. As noted, these are all aesthetic differences for the most part. The only time most of these colors affected platform gameplay was in Yoshi's Story, where it decided their favorite fruit. This is not notable enough to have a series of separate articles over something that can simply be given a quick mention in one article. The other time they affected platform gameplay was in Super Mario World, where Red Yoshi, Blue Yoshi, and Yellow Yoshi had a different ability depending on the Koopa shell they had in their mouth, but again, this something that is nonexistent in later appearances. Then there is the Green Yoshi article, which just has overlap with the character and species. The proposal has two options: one to include all Yoshi colors in the species article, and one to keep the Red Yoshi, Blue Yoshi, and Yellow Yoshi articles.

Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk)
Deadline: March 24, 2019, 23:59 GMT

Merge all colors

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Per now and then.
2. Waluigi Time (talk) Per proposal.
3. Sdman213 (talk) Per all.
4. Baby Luigi (talk) It's absolutely necessary to mention the spin-off games, specifically Mario Super Sluggers and Mario Tennis open where they have different stats too, and their different stats aren't any less significant than the one in Super Mario World. Aside from that, none of these differences are major enough to warrant their own article. We don't split off the colored Shy Guys in Mario Super Sluggers even though they have different stats. Same with Kritters, Piantas, Nokis, etc. and all of the Mario Baseball characters even have an individual role in the storyline. Red Koopas and Green Koopas have as much stat distinctions from each other in spinoffs and platformers as well and those aren't split. We could go on, but Yoshis deserve no exceptions and should get merged.
5. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per Baby Luigi.
6. GrainedCargo192 (talk) Per all.
7. TheFlameChomp (talk) Even with stat differences and gameplay differences in Super Mario World, it would be consistent with how we handle other color variants on the wiki to merge them. Per Baby Luigi.
8. Bazooka Mario (talk) I have been repeatedly calling these colored Yoshi pages into question and was going to bring up discussion about their legitimacy, and I still don't think minute differences justify separate pages. All relevant art goes into an appropriately organized gallery and we'll be good especially when the recolors these days just frequently reuse art.
9. MarioManiac1981 (talk) Some of the Yoshi articles are rather short (like Black Yoshi, White Yoshi, and Brown Yoshi), while many other appearances are simply cosmetic differences. If red and green Koopa Troopas aren't worthy of warranting separate articles, then why should these dinos receive special treatment? Per all.
10. bwburke94 (talk) Per all above.
11. Doomhiker (talk) Per all.
12. Tails777 (talk) While I do enjoy each color having its own article, I do see all the sense in merging and it is the better course of action.

Merge all except three Super Mario World colors

1. FanOfYoshi (talk) It should be that or nothing.

#Waluigi Time (talk) At the very least, those three do have some gameplay differences. #Sdman213 (talk) per Waluigi.

Leave alone

1. FanOfYoshi (talk) Disagree. I said that i didn't want the rest to be merged. Every Yoshi deserves its own aricle!
2. Alternis (talk) For FanOfYoshi

Comments

Note that I was initially going to hold off on this proposal until the release of Super Mario Maker 2 given a red Yoshi appears in the trailer; however, since I got support here, I'm going ahead. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:32, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

FanOfYoshi: You might think every Yoshi "deserves its own aricle", but that's inconsistent with how we usually do things as we generally discourage species color variants. The Toad colors have only gotten their own articles due to having a few notable appearances like the Toad Brigade, not for the sake of being a different color. LinkTheLefty (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2019 (EDT)

It is when it is enemies. Look at this proposal. -- FanOfYoshi 06:47, 11 March 2019 (EDT)

That's why I specifically brought up the Toad colors. Look carefully and you'll find that unlike the Yoshi colors, they are not about general appearances of each color. This is because that is information that can easily exist in the species article. LinkTheLefty (talk) 06:59, 11 March 2019 (EDT)

I don't even agree with myself in that proposal anymore lmao Ray Trace^(T|C) 18:48, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

I again direct you to ambiguous cases (particularly with early inconsistent colors brought about by palette limitations (such as gray and green in SMB1 and SMB2) and just being unable to see the damn Troopa's carapace occasionally), not to mention how Shy Guy colors were changed between SMB2 and its remake, then made utterly meaningless-but-plentiful in the Yoshi games. Sorry, misinterpreted your vague statement here. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:29, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

@Waluigi Time: but the other colored yoshis do have gameplay differences too....? yoshis have different classifications in mario tennis open, different stats in mario super sluggers, and have different fruit preferences in yoshi's story. how is super mario world's stat distinctions any more significant than being a power-based yoshi or a tricky-based yoshi in the mario tennis games? people who vote the second option is going to result in a major inconsistency that we should strive to avoid. Ray Trace^(T|C) 18:47, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

I see your point when you put it that way. I didn't even take into account the stat differences in sports games, but felt the SMW abilities were important enough for a possible split. But now that I think about it, having an entire Yoshi color with its own page because it had a special ability in one game is silly and inconsistent. It's also basically in the same boat as the Birdo colors from SMB2 and their special abilities, which we don't split. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 19:35, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

Question: After this, can we move on to trying to merge the generic shell colors? If the clearly-distinct banana and banana peel are consistently kept merged, there's no reason for these far more similar subjects to be split instead. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:08, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

You can. -- FanOfYoshi 08:13, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

What colored shells are you thinking about? Ray Trace^(T|C) 00:09, March 15, 2019 (EDT)

Green, red, blue, and yellow. I'd leave out black (as it's never appeared being worn by a Troopa and is very specific to the MKAGP series) and probably gold (as it has especially distinct properties when it appears). I would also leave out the wearable powerup version of the Blue Shell, and potentially split the Strikers version to its own article. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:13, March 15, 2019 (EDT)

Personally, I'd leave the attribute-related stuff alone and just merge their generic instances. So that means leave the Super Mario World, the Mario Kart, the Mario Strikers, the Mario Baseball, the Mario Tennis, the power-up stuff alone and keep generic instances of the name in one paragraph in the opening of their respective articles while we merge the generic instances to the Koopa Shell article. I strongly doubt the koopa shells in the titles where they are generic outside of the blue ones even have official names like "Red Shell" to begin with. Ray Trace^(T|C) 00:24, March 15, 2019 (EDT)

Regarding the above

So apparently, there was an option to leave out the Super Mario World Yoshis due to being sufficiently unique. I'd rather have waited until Super Mario Maker 2, something new comes if we should have left the four Super Mario World colors. That says, there should be new information popping up. -- FanOfYoshi 08:47, March 27, 2019 (EDT)

They're not any more unique than other colored Yoshis being in different type categories and QR codes in Mario Tennis Open. Ray Trace^(T|C) 18:38, March 28, 2019 (EDT)

Turtle

Yoshi is a turtle. https://nintendoeverything.com/yoshis-crafted-world-devs-on-the-art-style-kindergarten-inspiration-flip-side-gimmick-more Yoshiturtle (talk) 00:02, May 1, 2019 (EDT)

Well, Yoshis were originally meant to be a type of Koopa. 00:22, May 1, 2019 (EDT)

Yoshi's species specification has been extremely variable over the years, this is hardly groundbreaking news. The 25th anniversary booklet interview said that the saddle was "originally meant to be" a shell because he was "going to be a type of Koopa," indicating he's not intended to be one by the final product. That beak-mouthed early-tile screenshot appearance likely is related to that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:55, May 1, 2019 (EDT)

To elaborate more on the subject (you can read a more detailed resumé here), the dragon and dinosaur bits used to define Yoshi were indeed in official material beside that signature in Super Mario World. Dragon was used in the manual of Super Mario World (and in the manual and Nintendo Official Guidebook of Super Mario Advance 2, too!), while dinosaur was used in the Nintendo Official Guidebook. I wouldn't be surprised if Tezuka always wanted Yoshi to be a turtle, though. If at the beginning there was rather the consensus on Yoshi being a dragon or a dinosaur (after all, Super Mario World is set in Dinosaur Land), he may have been introduced as that because of this reason. Then, as the franchise developed and the Turtle Tribe started having a great veariety of species in it, they decided that the idea of Yoshi being a member of it (that's what the Japanese 25th Anniversary booklet says, from what I could find) made sense.--Mister Wu (talk) 07:25, May 2, 2019 (EDT)

Split the Super Mario-Kun ones from this article?

This talk page or section has a conflict or question that needs to be answered. Please try to help and resolve the issue by leaving a comment.

Should we split the Super Mario-Kun ones for being more unique than the normal ones? -- FanOfYoshi 01:45, July 12, 2019 (EDT)

If they are individual characters like Boshi, then yes. B700465189a9 (talk) 02:21, July 12, 2019 (EDT)

They are specifically from the Team Chibi Yoshis -- FanOfYoshi 09:28, July 12, 2019 (EDT)

Since the group already has an article, it must be seen if something worthwhile can be added in the individual pages, or if everything about them can just be written in the main page.--Mister Wu (talk) 10:03, July 12, 2019 (EDT)

But they're all separate characters. -- FanOfYoshi 12:15, July 12, 2019 (EDT)

And most of us probably know less about them than the Fearsome 5. LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:20, July 12, 2019 (EDT)

It's not about them not being separate characters, since they clearly are, it's just about having enough material for each of them so we don't end with six stubs or six articles that basically say the same as the team page. If you have both Super Mario-Kun volumes and manage to do so, you can go on and create the pages, but if we don't have enough material, covering them in that page for the team would be a better way to go.--Mister Wu (talk) 08:38, July 13, 2019 (EDT)

I'm not very fluent in Japanese, there are a few words that i understand (besides loanwords), and i can also read kanas, and i don't own them either. -- FanOfYoshi 00:50, July 16, 2019 (EDT)

Strongly opposed, using the Fearsome 5 as precedent. The group article is enough. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 12:49, August 14, 2019 (EDT)

Agreed, I don't see why every single minor member of an even more minor group has to have their own page. TheDarkStar 12:52, August 14, 2019 (EDT)

Actually, no, it's not extraneous, unlike the Fearsome 5, they're more unique, and have the main article template. -- FanOfYoshi 06:00, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

Really, splitting everything under the sun isn't a good idea in the first place, in my opinion. These are not notable enough for their own articles, much like the Nokis. TheDarkStar 08:58, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

The question is always the same: do we have more material than what is already written? Because making a page to say what can be said in a paragraph of the page about the team as a whole doesn't help the readers, it only makes getting information about them more complicated. The templates can be safely removed if we don't need the individual pages.--Mister Wu (talk) 14:45, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

I said this before, while we don't have the material to make full pages now, we shouldn't not in the future because we didn't have them in the past: so while the pages should not be made now once we get their material we should decide whether or not they need pages, which they may. We really can't say if they are not notable enough if we don't have full translations of the magna, because they actually may be notable, and saying that they are not now is speculation. Doomhiker (talk) 15:15, August 15, 2019 (EDT)