MarioWiki:Proposals

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Sunday, February 2nd, 16:55 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)
Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)
Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)
Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)
Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)
^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games, Nintendo101 (ended December 25, 2024)
Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork, Scrooge200 (ended January 5, 2025)
Organize "List of implied" articles, EvieMaybe (ended January 12, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Make changes to List of Smash Taunt characters, Hewer (ended December 27, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Split the Ink Bomb, Camwoodstock (ended January 12, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Merge the two Clawing for More articles, Salmancer (ended January 27, 2025)
Merge Dangan Mario to Invincible Mario, PrincessPeachFan (ended January 30, 2025)
Merge Hurricane (move) into Gale Force, EvieMaybe (ended January 30, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)

List of talk page proposals

Template:TPPDiscuss Template:TPPDiscuss

Proposals that have not been implemented

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Do not require main templates to be placed on pages alongside auxiliary templates

MarioWiki:Navigation templates § Game-specific templates:

These auxiliary game-specific templates only need to go on the articles of subjects that concern them (e.g. the NSMB2 level articles) and the game page itself, however the main template has to go on the subject pages along with the auxiliary template.

My problem is with the bolded sentence (emphasis mine). What's the point of placing a navigation template on an article if the article itself isn't in the template? It's not as if the opposite is true, where, for example, {{PM Items}} needs to be placed on every non-item page. What's the point of even splitting subjects into separate templates if we're just going to throw them all together anyways? It's extraneous and self-defeating.

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: December 29, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Alex95 (talk) - The Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels level articles all have the {{SMB}} template, despite the levels themselves not showing on it. Conversely, the Super Mario Sunshine missions do not have the main {{Super Mario Sunshine}} template, creating an inconsistency. Considering I worked on both of those, I suppose that would be poor planning on my part, but regardless, per proposal.
  3. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per proposal.
  4. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

Comments

"What's the point of placing a navigation template on an article if the article itself isn't in the template?" The missing article could always be added to the template if it's relevant. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 16:20, 24 December 2017 (EST)

That's not relevant for this case, as the link should have been there in the first place. Here, however, the links are being specifically placed in another nav template. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 19:53, 24 December 2017 (EST)

Miscellaneous

The Secret Courses of Remix 10 in Super Mario Run

In Super Mario Run's Remix 10, there are three kinds of levels: regular courses, Secret Courses (labelled with question marks), and Special Remix Courses (labelled with exclamation marks). The Special Remixes are wholly based on existing levels, so they're not of particular interest, but the Secret Courses are completely unique. All of them (25 27?) even have individual names, and although those names may be generic, that hasn't stopped us with World 1-1, World 1-2, and all of the rest. Considering our new article policy that strives to give articles to every level, it seems like we should make articles for the Secret Courses. However, they're short, and noticeably shorter than the other Super Mario Run levels. All of them are certainly distinct from each other, but considering the last level-based snafu, it'd probably be best to settle this by proposal.

If this proposal passes (i.e. if you support it), all twenty-five Secret Courses would receive individual articles (I'd make a mock-up, but I don't have enough information on-hand to do so). If this proposal does not pass, they would be concentrated into a single table (ditto).

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: December 26, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Alex95 (talk) - They are levels, and we have plenty of short articles. As long as the information given is as accurate and as much as we have, then I think it's fine. Before anyone uses that information against me to describe the Power Moon articles, I'll repeat that I think they are more along the lines of collectables (albeit important ones) than actual levels or missions, sans a few story-relevant ones. In this case with the Super Mario Run levels, they are full levels, at least as far as I can tell.
  2. Super Radio (talk) - per Time Turner and Alex
  3. Chester Alan Arthur (talk) Per proposal
  4. Time Turner (talk) Per all.
  5. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
  6. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Per all.

Oppose

  1. Yoshi the SSM (talk) We may or may not have seen all of the Secret Courses' layouts. And considering the mode it is in, it would be very difficult to write these levels. For now, a table would work best for these if we want to include them. I'm saying if due to how they are. Like regular and Special Remixes, they are short levels (parts of levels even) with variety of different set ups, but usually repeatable throughout the Areas. Considering their current state, they can't be level articles, yet. If Nintendo decides to add those levels in where we can actually play the whole thing and all of them without going to Remix 10, then they will be worth having articles.
  2. Astro-Lanceur (talk) per SSM.
  3. LuigiMaster123 (talk) Per Yoshi the SSM.

Comments

You forgot to vote in your own proposal. Red Yoshi in a construction hat walking Yoshi the SSM (talk) 11:43, 19 December 2017 (EST)

No, I did not. I want to see how other people vote first. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 11:48, 19 December 2017 (EST)

@Yoshi the SSM: To paraphrase Alex, every level or mission, no matter how short, is required to have its own article. And there's a video compilation of all Secret Courses on YouTube, so problem solved but apparently no compilation with "!" courses. Maybe separate gameplay videos will help? -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE 04:21, 20 December 2017 (EST)

We should find them out. I think they're likely going to be one possibility of the whole level (and they can actually be compared with the levels, these can't), but I could be wrong. Red Yoshi in a construction hat walking Yoshi the SSM (talk) 10:12, 20 December 2017 (EST)
The "!" courses aren't a priority for this proposal, but they're something that we should definitely look into for the future. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 17:10, 20 December 2017 (EST)
But seeing them will help me out on this. Red Yoshi in a construction hat walking Yoshi the SSM (talk) 17:12, 20 December 2017 (EST)

Add anchor links to Power Moon lists

Recently, I've had a small talk with Legomariofanatic (talk) on the removal of anchor links from the Power Moon lists for each kingdom in Super Mario Odyssey. Some lists actually had anchor templates, but Legomariofanatic removed them because someone suggested that anyone looking for a specific Power Moon can use the CTRL+F function to find it in a list. Here's my discussion with Legomariofanatic.

Thing is, I think it's less probable that a user will look up "List of Power Moons in whatever Kingdom" and then do some search on that page to find the location of a Power Moon, than they will simply search that name of the Power Moon. In the game, Talkatoo tells you the names of uncollected Power Moons, so there's how someone could learn their names. The Hint Toad locates them directly on the map, although in some cases the locations may not be exact--that's where the Internet comes to help.

Because this might spur a quarrel, seeing as how someone saw anchor links as useless, I think a proposal is necessary to settle it. Should we use anchor links or not?

Proposer: Super Radio (talk)
Deadline: December 31, 2017, 08:53 GMT

Support

  1. Super Radio (talk) per proposal
  2. Alex95 (talk) - I think the anchor template was created for this sort of thing, so sure, per proposal.
  3. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per proposal.
  4. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Clearly a no-brainer, per all.
  5. Baby Luigi (talk) Per Mario jc's comments
  6. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Give me one reason not to.

Oppose

Comments

I honestly think this is a no-brainer. Like other pages with a list of searchable names like the Things from Sticker Star and Color Splash, obviously it'd be faster and more convenient for people to be taken directly to the specific Power Moon they're looking for (this applies to both searching and linking to Power Moons on other pages). They shouldn't have to use CTRL+F to find the name themselves in this situation. It's better to have the anchor links than to not have them at all. Samus costume, in Super Mario Maker. Mario JC 00:29, 25 December 2017 (EST)

There are many lists that use anchor links, like the treasure lists from different Wario games. So yeah, the proposal is apparently a no-brainer. But I thought someone could step forward and argue why those links wouldn't be needed. We need to be cautious! -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE 06:55, 25 December 2017 (EST)

The format of the statistics in the main pages of Mario Kart 7, Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

While the statistics shown in the menus of Mario Kart games have been notoriously inaccurate and sometimes even outright wrong, since Mario Kart 7 the vehicle customization screen finally shows statistics in a way that at least is directly correlated with the underlying in-game statistics: internally the games use points that are summed to determine the final values of the statistics, with each character or part contributing their own points to each statistics, and in the vehicle customization screen every time there is an increase of 1 point in a statistics, the corresponding value shown by the bar increases by 0.25. This direct correspondence between the length of the bar and the underlying sum of points in each statistics led to the main pages of Mario Kart 7, Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe exclusively reporting the statistics in the format used by the games' vehicle customization screens.
It must be noted that said format is actually used by the games to display the final statistics of a certain combination of character, vehicle, tires and glider, while in the main pages it is being used to display the statistics of the individual elements (characters and vehicle parts).
This mismatch first of all leads to different criteria used for the characters (the final statistics obtained when using said characters with standard parts) and the parts (how the tatistics of each part compare with respect to standard parts), furthermore when discussing a redesign of the tables of statistics thanks to an automated script with 2257 (talk), other aspects emerged:

  • the differences between various parts and how much characters and parts contribute to the final stats are potentially more difficult to evaluate, since fractional number that, in the case of the parts, can be both negative and positive are being used to display the stats in place of integers
  • standard parts can have values which are not average in some statistics, leading to the numbers being skewed as a result, this being the case of Standard Tires in Mario Kart 8 which have maximum water speed
  • comparison between games can be more difficult, as the statistics of the standard parts are different in each game - as an example, the Standard Kart has different stats in each game, but the current format doesn't show this
  • more importantly, the current format can be misleading when trying to make considerations in the individual parts' pages, such as the ones on the Standard Kart that didn't reflect the actual statistics of the kart nor the actual contribution of the characters to the final statistics in Mario Kart 7.

Therefore, since the current format has both advantages and disadvantages and the games actually use an alternative format, the points, which is still simple and thus could be used in the main pages I propose to review and decide which format to use for the statistics shown in the main pages of Mario Kart 7, Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, between those two:

  1. values actually used by the game (called points)
  2. values shown in the vehicle customization screen (what I'll call bar values)

In short, those are what I think are the main advantages of each format:

MAIN ADVANTAGES OF POINTS

  • They are the values actually used by the game and, as such, they are not misleading
  • They allow for an easy comparison between characters and parts and between games using the points system, while allowing to easily see how much a character or part contributes to the final stats

MAIN ADVANTAGES OF BAR VALUES

  • They are the ones shown in the vehicle customization screen and, as such, they are the ones most readers are familiar with and the ones mainly used by the competitive Mario Kart community as well
  • They tend to be useful for statistics which are tiered on the integer part of bar values, in particular acceleration in Mario Kart 8 and weight in Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

As a final note, a revision of the pages of the individual parts will have to be done regardless of the outcome of this proposal, to add the actual statistics of the parts and to see if there are other considerations which need to be corrected in light of the actual statistics of each part.

Proposer: Mister Wu (talk)
Deadline: January 2, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Use points

  1. Alex95 (talk) - While bars are more familiar to players, points show the statistics more accurately, which I think is what should be used.
  2. 2257 (talk) the idea that most readers are already familiar with bar values is not really correct. most readers are familiar with the in-game system of bar values, which they might assume is identical with the wiki's system. but that is not a correct assumption, and cannot be. the in-game system is used to rate a combination of a character and three vehicle parts, while the wiki's system is used to rate each character or part individually. the mapping between the two is based on some fairly arbitrary decisions that readers can easily gloss over without understanding their implications for interpretation of the reported values. the upshot is that although the bar value format feels familiar to readers, because it resembles the in-game system, this feeling is inaccurate and misleads readers into believing that they understand the system when they actually do not. we have already seen the result of this: the claim linked above that the standard kart "doesn't offer any stat changes due to the main stats relying more on the weight class of the character and is shared for all characters" is completely wrong, and this is a direct result of an editor attempting to reason about the bar values system while having misunderstood it. this is a weakness that the point system lacks: because it does not falsely seem to be immediately familiar, users are less likely to incorrectly assume that they understand it when they do not, and more likely to read adjacent explanations of how to properly interpret the data as it is presented
    regardless of which system the page uses, it will need to include some such text to explain the system to uninformed readers, and readers who opt to ignore this text are likely to come to inaccurate conclusions regarding part statistics. since readers must read and understand this text to correctly use either system, it makes sense to use whichever of the two systems is most helpful to those who do understand it. this is clearly the point system, which allows users to easily understand how each individual part affects the overall stats of a build, cross reference the stats of a part with the translation tables here, and compare parts between mario kart 8 and mario kart 8 deluxe to see how their stats have changed. none of these tasks can easily be done with the bar values system. meanwhile, the main presumed advantage of the bar values system is that it's likely to feel familiar to readers. but as i've shown, this feeling does not mean that most readers actually understand it, and may actually be harmful to their ability to learn to use it
  3. Lord Bowser (talk) Accuracy should take priority over familiarity. Readers would be better off with a foreign yet accurate display of information than a familiar yet flawed display, and it would be better to take the time to learn how to read it than simply go with what they already know, especially if the latter is inaccurate. Using the bar system would defeat the purpose of us being a wiki -- a reputable source of information -- due to said system having inaccurate data. Per 2257.

Use bar values

  1. Lcrossmk8 (talk) You know, if readers are familiar with the bar values, and if the competitive Mario Kart community uses them, then I'm going with bar values. Anyway, that is some of the most detailed in-depth stuff I've read yet on this wiki. I'm gonna have to take a look at it again to make things a little clearer for me.
  2. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Per Lcross. The games use bars, and bars are easier for players to understand, so we use bars.

Comments

Why not both, like how we have for the Mario Kart Wii vehicles like Standard Kart M (but done better)? Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 17:55, 26 December 2017 (EST)

Dingo-DONGO. I like that idea. The problem is, how are we going to implement thatt? Lcrossmk8 (talk) 18:07, 26 December 2017 (EST)
I personally tried that, and I was asked to just report one set of stats. We can of course include two sets of tables, but that would be additional vertical scrolling. In short, unless you can come up with a new layout that manages to do that more clearly, this simply isn't going to happen again.--Mister Wu (talk) 18:33, 26 December 2017 (EST)
If only one set of stats is what's been asked, then we may as well just use one for now. Alex95sig1.pngAlex95sig2.png 19:30, 26 December 2017 (EST)
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