User talk:Koopa con Carne

Talk archive
I still had a point. People say, "focus on the good parts of life and you'll be happy", but that glaring warning is really crawling onto me. My first completely normal string of conversations Wario tries to take over my talk page. I welcome him with apple pie and jasmine tea.

Medusiño MLA Italics

In that case the usage of the MLA style instead of the wiki's style will likely need a proposal somewhere, as a lot of the foreign name explanations on this wiki use quotes instead of italics for explanations, and there's a lot of failed proposals regarding the conversion of this wiki to be MLA. ^S _o ^m _e ^t _h ⁱ _n ^g _o ⁿ _e ! 10:32, February 14, 2023 (EST)

File:MK8D BCP Wave 4 Release Date screenshot Tour Bangkok Rush.jpg

As pointed out on the talk page, going by the same direction as the Deluxe video which is the reverse variant, the Inky Piranha Plant is not actually at the same location of this Piranha Plant but on the other side of the poster/pillar. It's likely there isn't one found behind it but it's still hard to tell and know for sure. Mario JC 21:44, March 3, 2023 (EST)

Thanks for the heads-up. So there's still hope for my inky boys appearing? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 21:48, March 3, 2023 (EST)

A nomination

Can you please support or oppose my feature article nomination for some game character? I spent my worth trying to improve the article itself from January until yet. Thanks if you've noticed this~  ^P_nn^yC_ryg^r  06:07, March 23, 2023 (EDT)

re:Made in Wario Bonbon

I've asked the other staff to be certain but I don't think nuking the edit-rev is necessary. We have links to obscure, currently un-distributed material in other pages and the Dr. Mario-kun has (and continues to) posts scans of his work without evident legal issues - unlike what ROM sites may tell you, copyright infringement doesn't suddenly become legal if you do it for a time-limited period. --Glowsquid (talk) 11:37, March 29, 2023 (EDT)

Construction Site Fight Proposal

The proposal was past its date and it was pretty clear that the proposal was in favor. That's why I changed it to swap names. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 18:28, March 31, 2023 (EDT)

This is Wario clipping through his own chest

This is just a dare made by Waluigi on if Wario can lick his own chest. Seems like Wario CAN lick his own chest. A little too well, his jaw is just buried inside and he needs a little help! Can you lick your own chest and beat Waluigi at his little game!? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 23:02, March 31, 2023 (EDT)

A "little" help? He needs urgent hospitalisation! He broke his central rigs! This is what you get for playing Waluigi's depraved games, Wario. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 04:05, April 1, 2023 (EDT)

Hey, Wario is just REALLY jealous of Waluigi's flexibility, so he asked Waluigi's secret. I wonder how well Wario can reach his fingertips if he's trying to put one arm over its shoulder and have the other go opposite. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 04:27, April 1, 2023 (EDT)

He can easily do so, however, he may need someone with a chainsaw to help. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:32, April 3, 2023 (EDT)

Yeah, that big appendage in the middle of his arms keeps getting in the way. Not it makes much of a difference with or without a head in terms of physical beauty and/or competent intellect and/or likeable personality. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:12, April 3, 2023 (EDT)

Response to your comment in the proposal

Posting here because I didn't want to leave a comment there. All I wanted was to vote and leave it there, I'm just sick and tired of people getting confrontational with me when I say no to something. I was hesitant on voting at first for this reason so once others had left opposition reasonings I thought my time to leave a simple "per all" vote was right, and debating actually does mentally wear me out a lot. I'd appreciate if people respected that for once. Nightwicked Bowser 12:14, April 18, 2023 (EDT)

Right, I understand. This is, after all, a fan wiki on a media franchise. Arguing on its fictional constructs isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, certainly much less so than one's mental health. (I myself am emotionally distant from these discussions, but I do enjoy arguing, if that makes sense.) -- KOOPA CON CARNE 12:19, April 18, 2023 (EDT)

"Made In Wario" Diary Quote's

In an index article showcasing almost every single dr. crygor quote (List of Dr. Crygor quotes), there's a section named "WarioWare Inc Mega Microgames Japanese diary entries". I made it on my own. The section features english translations of Dr. Crygor's entries from the japanese WWIMM website. Whilst the february entry is not inside a dropdown, all the march and april entries are collapsed in a dropdown. I've tried the best to correct some terms, like Aubulon-kun sounding like Orbulon, and Cut sounding like Kat.

Please make sure to analyze the diary entries section (above), and fix any obvious error present.  ^P_nn^yC_ryg^r  19:41, April 22, 2023 (EDT)

Re:Winged Cloud

Actually, if you zoom in on the source, you can see that it's supposed to be ぐ due to the compound. Flipping through the Super Mario Advance 3 guide also shows the same (the other guides don't use furigana, at least when listing items). I think it's safe to consider it a mistake. Let's say there was a source that used く though. In that case, what I would do is list both names separately since the romanization differs but put them under the same meaning, i.e. use Jap, JapR, JapM, Jap2, and Jap2R, but no Jap2M. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:18, April 25, 2023 (EDT)

RE:Template:Earth

About some of the countries I added on the template. They come from the "List of implied locations" article, I thought it would be nice to include them here too for completeness. If you think they need a little bit more to be included there, how about an "implied countries" entry that leads to said article at the end of the Countries row instead? --Conradd (talk) 03:49, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

User:PnnyCrygr/sandbox#9-Volt

Can you please proof-read my draft for an article's section? Thank you. Much criticism should be appreciated.  ^P_nn^yC_ryg^r  04:33, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

Article dispute

There are two editors disputing a page you created, Nintendo Switch System Games Online Quiz. Here's a chance to pitch in and make sure the Wario horde doesn't get to it hopefully. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:52, May 19, 2023 (EDT)

How should Play Nintendo's Pics be displayed?

Pics section on Play Nintendo's website consists of galleries that Nintendo likes to remove every once in a while, so they need to be covered. An average gallery looks like this, a set of images with captions at the bottom.

Headache #1: Not every gallery has captions. Especially older ones. Just images.

Headache #2: Since images are the main part of the galleries, they should be displayed front and centre. {{Play Nintendo quiz}} template sounds like a great option, allowing us to display a caption below an image, but it looks really ugly without any caption. Using wiki's <gallery> would make it more challenging to view the images that are supposed to be the main focus of the section (also they'd require clicking them on desktop). Some files are VERY low quality.

Headache #3: Nintendo of America doesn't archive their old content. Archive.org barely saved any files, fortunately all the direct file links still work even for long deleted galleries.

Headache #4: Article size! How should we deal with that? Images take up space, they take longer to load a page, and I'm not a fan of [hide] buttons. Giving every gallery their own page could work, maybe?

Here's a preview. Feel free to reply on your talk page Spectrogram (talk) 14:03, May 23, 2023 (EDT)

I was planning on covering these galleries at some point, so I welcome your initiative. I think they are too light on content to warrant individual pages, but like you, I'm not sure how I would handle their coverage otherwise. I need to test out a few possibilities myself, then I will get back to you. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:32, May 23, 2023 (EDT)

How about something like this? It adapts to the screen size and still allows us to add captions. It probably would be better to have galleries split in their own articles anyway. The article size on mobile would be huge. Spectrogram (talk) 10:59, May 27, 2023 (EDT)

Yeah, that would be ideal for the images. I don't see why they shouldn't be placed in the same tables under [hide] buttons, though; they're convenient as far as loading times and mobile users are concerned and they don't take much effort to open. I am curious if you have a particular issue with them. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 11:28, May 27, 2023 (EDT)

I never liked the [hide] buttons (except in nav-templates and in some specific cases such as hiding a wall of data on a talk page for convenience). In tables they feel especially off. In this specific case, the table is already very cluttered. Giving the galleries individial pages just feels more right. Edit: not to mention, Nintendo isn't going to stop making these galleries. Article size will continue to grow as time goes by Spectrogram (talk) 11:55, May 27, 2023 (EDT)

Here's an example of how it would look like. I just don't see how we could store an ever increasing number of galleries on one page, really Spectrogram (talk) 06:18, May 28, 2023 (EDT)

The last gallery they made was for Luigi's Mansion 3 back in 2019, having seemingly put a cap on this sort of promotional content, so I wouldn't call their number "ever-increasing". I'm inclined to have these galleries covered on one list, but my personal preference isn't gospel. Porplemontage might make a better call on the organisation of these things since I suppose his web dev knowledge entails some manner of resource management that could prove helpful, so you could ask him for an opinion. Or make a proposal about the issue. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 09:26, May 28, 2023 (EDT)

There is a native <gallery mode="slideshow"> that works very similarly to the way galleries are displayed on Play Nintendo, and it would solve the issue of image overload. Unsure on whether or not we should use it in an article. Spectrogram (talk) 09:46, May 28, 2023 (EDT)

Oh wow, I never knew about that! Seems very useful, but I don't know how to operate the slideshow on mobile. There are no arrows or anything around it to switch between pics. Can't swipe either. Edit: NVM the arrows just weren't visible on my custom CSS. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 09:49, May 28, 2023 (EDT)~

Just checked as well. Unfortunately it appears there is no way to look through these images on mobile by default (that would be convenient and not confusing for the reader, that is). I really do not want to make a proposal on a topic two and a half people care about. Spectrogram (talk) 09:57, May 28, 2023 (EDT)

After going through many options, I believe this is how we should do the galleries. Images are the main focus of the article, each image has a readable caption below it. It looks good on desktop and even better on mobile. Spectrogram (talk) 07:10, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Nice. Go ahead! Just make sure you find a place for these new articles in the Play Nintendo template. (I suggest creating two subsections in "Media": one for the articles pertaining to the Pics category, and one called "Miscellaneous" solely occupied by the wallpaper list.) By the by, you planning to make a list of Play Nintendo videos too? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 09:27, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Yes, though it could prove very problematic. I'm afraid archive.org didn't save most of the deleted content. Spectrogram (talk) 09:55, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

RE: List of Shy Guy names in other languages

It hasn't happened since March though, and unfortunately this isn't the only target for unconstructive foreign name edits since this is the same user jumping between different IPs who's made edits to many other pages. If it does become a page they keep coming back to, then I'll protect it. Mario JC 21:39, May 26, 2023 (EDT)

SM64 Key

Hey, it seems like their was some misunderstanding on my part. Sorry about that. I can be dense sometimes. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:07, June 1, 2023 (EDT)

You're not dense; I admit I didn't word my original edit summary in a way that fully got the message through. You wanna know who's dense? Yesterday I had to upload a screenshot 4 bloody times because I kept missing vital information and needed to revise it. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 06:29, June 2, 2023 (EDT)

Sounds like something I would have done (and still do, on occasion). Cheers! - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:10, June 2, 2023 (EDT)

Super Mario Maker 1 fan-made courses list

Can you add these courses [1] to the list before Nintendo kills SMM1, please? Spectrogram (talk) 05:22, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Sure, I'll get to it a bit later. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 08:01, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Another batch [2]! Axis (talk) 16:05, July 21, 2023 (EDT)

Improper text during edit

What caused this text change in Gallery:Mario Kart 8 revision? Windy (talk) 17:42, July 31, 2023 (EDT)

I had a browser add-on that automatically turned the words "Wario" and "Waluigi" into inappropriate phrases. (marioboards.com) For funsies, never used one before and I wanted to experiment. I didn't realise it can also replace text inside input spaces, though, so now I have it turned off. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:48, July 31, 2023 (EDT)

Your signature page

Why does your signature page use /Sig when MarioWiki:Signatures says you should use /sig instead?MH :) at 03:28, August 3, 2023 (EDT)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:37, August 3, 2023 (EDT)

what do you mean? MH

:) at 05:40, August 5, 2023 (EDT)

It means I have no recollection of what led to this particular state of affairs in my signature sub-page (having created it a decade ago) and I don't personally believe it matters a whole lot. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 06:37, August 5, 2023 (EDT)

I would say it matters a lot bruh MH

:) at 09:21, August 5, 2023 (EDT)

It literally says you MUST use /sig though. Shouldn't you change it to that to follow that rule? MH

:) at 01:06, August 18, 2023 (EDT)

Please stop bothering them about this. It's saying only "sig" should be used as opposed to something like "signature"; I don't think it matters if it's uppercase or lowercase. Mario JC 07:24, August 18, 2023 (EDT)

Another option

[3] I've added another option to cite them only in cases where there is no other available alternative. Axis (talk) 23:55, August 17, 2023 (EDT)

Thanks!

Thank you for editing nicely, Mickeyminniegoofydonald (talk)

You're welcome! 👍 -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:23, August 22, 2023 (EDT)

SMRPG and crude CG

I was mostly looking at, for example, Frogfucious and Guerilla's models, which as seen by their official renders, look like they came straight out of 1996 showcase renders. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:24, September 18, 2023 (EDT)

It's not that noticeable in-game, considering how small these characters appear on the screen. Some models aren't even really polygon-impaired, such as Spikey's, Sky Troopa's, or Magikoopa's, and are comparable to what you'd see in other Nintendo-published games. I can believe the notion that these in-game models being recycled as promo renders where they are more clearly visible, warts and all, may have been intended to further emulate the original game's artistic direction, but it reads like speculation without definitive word from the developers and the statement I removed was in reference to what is seen in the game itself anyway. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:32, September 19, 2023 (EDT)

Re: "Evasion check"

In the stage article regarding your confusion with the term "evasion checks", a "check" in RPG terms is essentially an RNG mechanic that a game calculates for an action (for example, if TTYD used DnD mechanics, a character has to roll a 10 or higher on a 20-sided die to see if the attack connects). In context of here, what the description is essentially saying "attacks that always hit the target ignores the evasion drop". It's very jargony for something like TTYD tho, so I wouldn't mind a rewrite so you can understand it better. Ray Trace^(T|C) 15:18, September 19, 2023 (EDT)

I get it now, thank you. I don't hang around much in the gaming sphere outside of this website, much less in RPG-oriented communities, so I apologise for my ignorance. Still, having re-googled the term now (obviously with RPG-related keywords), I couldn't find an index that would explain this word, just some Quora answer and several mentions on gaming Reddit communities; doesn't help that my desired results were hodgepodge'd with IBM-related programming concepts. What I want to get at is that, yes, the term is indeed too jargony and should be expanded upon in the article for n00bz. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:41, September 19, 2023 (EDT)

Mario Kart Tour's regarding "false items"

At first I see Builder Toad receiving Bob-omb Cannons and Explorer Toadette receiving Double Bob-ombs, which makes me a bit suspicious
But when I see Pengui Yellow Toad receiving Dash Rings instead of ice Flowers, I get agitated because it does not fit Penguin's powerups, like Penguin Mario and Toadette.
This also happens to Kamek when he has Cioin Box instead of Ice Flowers since he has magic, and it has sparkle trails, not to spew coins, contradicting Mario platforming games.
Golfer Luigi should have used Ice Flowers like he did in Mario Golf Super Rush, and Wintertime Larry should have used Ice Flowers because his clothes were made of snowflakes.
For Green Birdo, while it makes sense to have Fire Flowers just like she did in Super Mario Bros 2, it would make a bit of sense to receive Green Shells as her special item.
The worst offender will be Golden Mario with Fire Flowers since it is considered a false item and it would make sense to receive a Coin Box. Coin Box makes him OP, so it would make better sense to receive Lucky 7 instead.

Bonus: Gold Dry Bowser and Gold Shy Guy get explosive items than Coin Boxes, which makes no sense. Pierce Ng (talk)

ok. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 08:50, September 21, 2023 (EDT)

Mario vs. Donkey Kong (GBA, Switch) vs. Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Game Boy Advance) Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)

Why isn't it okay to call this tempalte like I did when we already did it for Donkey Kong Country 1, 2 and 3? I don't understand the logic behind this... Do you like long ass names? I don't see how my proposal is less intuitive than yours, do you think people would seriously believe that the GBA game comes after the Switch game? there are more than 20 years between the two consoles. It's pretty clear which game is older and which game is newer. As for the "better readability", I mean, have you seen how long the name you are proposing is? --Conradd (talk) 21:20, October 23, 2023 (EDT)

I shouldn't explain myself because it's obvious enough why the options you proposed aren't ideal, but I guess I will.
1. The Mario vs. Donkey Kong template should relate to both the GBA and the Switch versions of the game. This is mitigated when you put "Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)" as a header for the template, implying at a glance that the template only applies to the Switch version. No, choosing the game's title itself to link to the "main article" while linking to the Switch version through the console identifier is not a solution; readers have no way to register that difference just by sight, and there's a much-higher-than-zero chance they'd expect an article for the Nintendo Switch console when they click on a link that says "Nintendo Switch", even in the context of this game.
2. Arguably even less intuitive is having the game title itself formatted in plain text and expecting readers to instantly know that they're supposed to click on one of its console identifiers for the intended game version.
Yes, I do in fact prefer expanding upon and clarifying a notion when the alternatives are worse--as in, I prefer repeating a game's title if the template ought to link to different versions of the game in its header. I don't see how one or two rows added to a short box in service of clarification is such an eyesore. Absolutely no big deal. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 08:51, October 24, 2023 (EDT)

Wario is testing the limits of how much his body can twist!!

And, after being subjected to a few Mario Party minigames and even a legal torture device in Bowser's training room _{remember Waluigi's back breaker from Mario Power Tennis?} it turns out he can beat our favorite contorted comic book women! He didn't even snap a single spinal segment, which can't be said of the women! What an envy of the opposite AND the same sex!

_{P.S. Where is User talk:Koopa con Carne/Archive 4? Did it succumb to the extreme twisting?} It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:30, November 2, 2023 (EDT)

Ha! This is just anti-Wario propaganda thinly veiled as damage control, but reality is nowhere near as soothing! Not falling for it. Don't you know why there are no more Wario platformers? Or why Wario-Man retired in 2018? His spine is now too frail to allow any more straining exercise, and he's not even that old. He's like, what, 21? (We never see him drinking in games.)

All he needed was 20 McCheeseburgers and 20 gallons of 7-Up a day to be in such shape. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:48, November 2, 2023 (EDT)

Holy moly, has Wario Man been absent since Game & Wario? Maybe Afghani simply cannot handle the fabulousness of those pink pajamas! Fawful couldn't either, and this was why he died. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:20, November 4, 2023 (EDT)

Fawful died before he ever lost his lustre though! "Waaaaaaaaaaaaah!" ~ cried a spineless Wario as he coiled into oblivion. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:18, November 5, 2023 (EST)

Oops! Proposal stuff

Pssst, we asked a question about an ongoing proposal we started and we'd like to ensure everyone's on the same page with it. Cool link, let us know at the earliest convenience. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 10:51, November 4, 2023 (EDT)

Thanks! -- KOOPA CON CARNE 12:13, November 4, 2023 (EDT)

Proposal you might be interested in

Hi friend! Just figured you might like to chime into a new proposal made here, since you seem to be interested in this sort of thing (word formatting). ^S _o ^m _e ^t _h ⁱ _n ^g _o ⁿ _e ! 07:10, November 21, 2023 (EST)

Oh no! The frozen Wario that was TOO cold escaped and has wandered into your talk page!

He wants your W-4 forms!!!! It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:24, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Have a look-see, Wario! It's nice to see that you've finally become an upstanding citizen who cares if others abide by law and pay their taxes... even if it took an extreme temperature dip and a trip to the coroner! After all, no one who dies really dies: we merely transform. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 18:31, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Welp, time to use my FLAMETHROWA! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 07:39, January 8, 2024

Fandom template proposal

Fandom's interwiki link has been fixed one or more years ago. Just as I researched, [[wikia:c:spongebob:Bikini Bottom|Bikini Bottom]] takes you here By the way, there's a proposal on decisions to add the language parameters and/or change back to the interwiki, and the deadline is tomorrow. Which option would you choose? GuntherBayBeee 14:19, March 22, 2024 (EDT)

Proposal cleaned up

I cleaned up my proposal by adding the <pre> tags. You should take a look at what the template will look like from above. What do you think how my proposal looks? GuntherBayBeee 21:00, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

Disambiguation pages for Smash fighters

I had an idea that we can make a disambiguation page for non-Super Mario fighters in the Super Smash Bros. series, so that Super Smash Bros. does not take precedence over actual Super Mario appearances. For example, check the Mewtwo page. The titles for the list pages implies that they're of Super Smash Bros. content, so that's another reason why I had the idea to do disambiguation pages. Super Mario RPG (talk) 17:27, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

The Mario appearances proper are already covered within Mewtwo's entry on the fighter list. "Mewtwo" should redirect to that whole entry; making a disambig is just adding unnecessary steps. The entire basis of covering these non-Mario fighters on the Mario Wiki is that you can interact with them in Smash if you play as a Mario character, so, for the time being, they're still somewhat Mario-related even solely in terms of Smash. The redirect is warranted. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:32, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

I avoided tagging fighter redirects for deletion, when I saw the Mewtwo one was undeleted. However, the series categories need to be removed, per the result of a recent proposal. Super Mario RPG (talk) 17:34, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Ah, well, if that's what that proposal said, that's what we oughta do! I guess the Mewtwo redirect goes in the trash. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:42, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

The cite template is great

If I recall, you were the one who originally proposed the Cite template? I'm just so glad that it's now become a thing, since it can help establish a universal consistency for citations around the wiki, whether optional or required (it's the former, but I still encourage others to use it). Previously, the formatting for some of the citations had been a mess on certain articles (or sometimes just a pasted url), and it helps for quicker archival so that one doesn't have to type out text like the archival date by hand. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:16, May 12, 2024 (EDT)

I don't know if I was the first one to propose it, but ye, it's pretty good. The archival aspect of it, especially so, for the reasons you stated, and I think it's the single most useful part of the template. The "deadlink" parameter, yet another useful aspect, automatically swaps the original url with the archive url to prioritize the archive if the source is deleted. Having a template in general also ensures any decisions regarding the formatting of these citations are enacted immediately. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:44, May 12, 2024 (EDT)

Main page

Since you were one of the people who commented on the main page's talk, I was wondering if the design looks okay to you now. I wanted names next to Facebook, X, and Discord, but RetroNintendo2008 suggested to keep them as icons, so now there's an inconsistent look with the Proposals, Forums, and IRC on the top right, where I grouped all the outlets for socializing. Super Mario RPG (talk) 12:30, May 16, 2024 (EDT)

The Explore and Navigate blocks add too much empty space, whereas the current design is more compact and ensures readers can find the links with more ease. The new coloration also seems questionable, as the lighter hues do not stand out too well against the white background. With the Mario and Luigi icons, I'm a bit mixed; it's cute to have them greet readers onto the site, but I can see some arguing that they're kinda superfluous with the Mushroom logo since they'd only be there to beat you over the head with the site's topic in an uncomfortably corporate fashion. It's something Nintendo would do on their website to enforce their branding onto customers like a giant flashing sign; with a fan site, you kind of have the expectation that a significant number of its visitors already know what it is about, and while it's imperative that the home page features visuals that communicate its identity (e.g. the big mushroom), having too much of that can be bad. Again I'll note that this is just conjecture on what others would say; I'd suggest asking for feedback elsewhere as well, because I can't tell for sure if those mugshots cross that line or not.
One definite positive: I like the idea of separating socials somewhere. At the very least, I think their current placement definitely needs rethought. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 14:36, May 16, 2024 (EDT)

The Explore and Navigate blocks were tricky, since it helps put it all together (and references looked out of place grouped with proposals, site about page, etc.) I think you do have a point about the Mario and Luigi graphics. It was just a matter of trying to figure out how to fill in some of those empty spaces. I asked Mario, since I think a big change like this needs at least some staff input, to get an idea of how it could look before proposing, as well as user input. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:48, May 16, 2024 (EDT)

Generic and real content

I'm confused on how to handle them so that it doesn't look like we're treating them as something originating from the Super Mario franchise. Super Mario RPG (talk) 09:17, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

Something that is "generic" can be reasonably assumed to be known by a very large amount of people on this planet, making any description of their nature as a real world thing redundant. If someone hasn't ever heard of grapes, soccer balls, or icicles and needs explanations from a Mario wiki, they probably only live and breathe video games and never leave their basement. You may argue that there are non-native English speakers who read this wiki yet somehow have never heard of the English word "grape", but the visual aid on its article immediately tells them what fruit it describes. Of course, that leaves us with a subset in this specific group of users who are also visually-impaired and can only "read" articles with the help of a text-to-speech machine or another person, but whether that's worth having "captain obvious" statements around and getting ridiculed for it is up for discussion. Point is, you assume everyone already knows what a grape is, and word the lead paragraph accordingly: "Grapes appear in the Super Mario franchise as items" or "In the Super Mario franchise, grapes appear as items". You may also want to avoid phrasing it like "Grapes/Dogs are items/species in the Super Mario franchise" because that implies these things are an invention of Mario games.
Please note that how generic you find a real world subject is your judgement call. Real world figures that were fictionalized into the franchise, such as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, and Bill Gates, aren't generic things, and will most definitely need a general overview that is separate from their role within the franchise. On the other hand, something like Avalanche (obstacle) falls into a class I'd describe as "generic-esoteric"; since it's a phenomenon that only occurs in specific landscapes around the Earth, it may be unknown to a number of people, in which case adding a Wikipedia link on its Mario Wiki article may be conducive to educating readers on the subject while eschewing epic memers' attempts to ridicule phrasing of the ilk I described above. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:11, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

The aforementioned real people is why I talked about generic and real as two separate categories. I think the "Grapes appear in the Super Mario franchise as items" is good phrasing. Super Mario RPG (talk) 10:21, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

A pet peeve with writing

Not sure who to communicate this to, but I figured I'd tell you one of the things that annoys me is when people say in articles "the player must do this" or "the player must do that to accomplish this" when the gameplay experience is relative to the player or even someone spectating the game. To me, it's non-encyclopedic and makes it read like a strategy guide. I'd do neutral tone at bare minimum and simply state a fact, like when using an environmental object or item is required to accomplish something in a game. Super Mario RPG (talk) 09:17, May 26, 2024 (EDT)

Dictating readers what to do in a game should indeed be done thoughtfully as to not slip into subjective assessments on how a game is meant to be played, though I wouldn't find fault in doing so when there's a tacit understanding that the game in question requires you to do a particular action if you need to accomplish a certain goal. That is to say, given the in-game goal of the Goomba-thumping minigame, it's not erroneous to say that the player must jump on Goombas within said minigame. I'd also say it's reasonable to describe entire game strategies in cases where only a very limited number of possible strategies exist to accomplish a goal; for instance, if you strip it down to essentials, there's only one way in this level to reach the goal, so its article affords to trace the player's path in detail. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 09:46, May 26, 2024 (EDT)

The type of phrasing I was talking about can be seen in my edit here (first sentence under the Gameplay section). While it's a small and seemingly insignificant thing, it comes across as more universal. Not everyone who reads the wiki necessarily plays video games (I don't like giving names, but I've seen a user here is more interested in the history behind video games over playing them), and further neutralizing the writing like that can better accommodate wider audiences. Talking of things from a gameplay perspective or objective may seem ostensibly alienating or condescending. However, I do agree with the idea of distinguishing linear versus subjectivity during gameplay, and while it might just be me, trying to find a way to establish a guideline on this seems vague. Super Mario RPG (talk) 10:03, May 26, 2024 (EDT)

Wario is HOT

Ha! Gotcha with the topic title. Of course he's hot! Summer heat domes that'll melt even Vanilla Dome AND Battle Dome are here! While you're hopefully cooling off and drinking some nice water indoors all day editing MarioWiki (while the southern hemisphere folk are snuggling in and enjoying the fire made of fresh Wario noses), you have some options dealing with this poor man, listed in this wonderful table with pros AND cons.

Method	Pros	Cons
Take off this clothes	Give Wario the worst sunburn of his life and cause his skin to undergo premature aging! Take everything off of him to further humiliate him!	It does make Wario cooler for a moment. It is also considered a microgame win.
Set Wario on fire	Everyone loves setting Wario on fire and he'll make for some sweet bbq ribs once he's done roasting, thanks to his sweat serving as amazing marinade.	Causes greenhouse emissions, which is the LAST THING we all need especially when summer is borderline intolerable these days.
▶ Push Wario into the ocean Repliers' note: I get to push Wario in the North Sea, and the con becomes a pro--this place is unbearably cold year-round and he'd turn into a delicious popsicle.	Wario can't swim and he'll scare off the whales, which will prevent them from beaching themselves. This will also reduce the amount of shark incidents to effectively zero. Wario makes a good man o'war repellent and the seals will play with him for sure since he's just a big beach ball.	It does cool Wario. Also, Wario is one of the worst walking polluters known to shroomkind. The fishes in the ocean will remember you with disappointment, but the orcas and jellyfish will still love you.
Freeze Wario	Wario will explore the wide and diverse range of the extremes of the temperature spectrum! A frozen Wario is a majestic sight to behold too, and you'll be the star of the beach attracting all lovely bodies who are brave enough to hang out in the beach without baggy clothes.	Wario will just melt into a pile of yellow smelly garlicky goo, which is very hard to clean up. It'll also attract gulls and cause everyone to just call them "seagulls".
Smother Wario in seaweed	Give Wario one of the worst hairdos in his life. Bonus points if you have mirrors. It'll also make the clothes for Wario even more difficult to remove!	Seaweed is pretty difficult to get in this beach and when they do wash up, they tend to be icky to touch. Bring gloves.
(Day only) Feed Wario to the pelicans	Pelicans have issues locating food, so they tend to scrounge off baby birds from seabird colonies! You'll discourage this nasty, but desperate behavior for sure when Wario provides enough food for the season.	Has a moderate risk of making the pelicans fat, greedy, and smelly and obsessed about making terrible microgames.
(Night only) Summon baby sea turtles to destroy Wario	Wario is one of the best ways to get the baby sea turtles on the move. Watch them scurry over to Wario and nibble his toes until Wario gets so fed up that he implodes!	Requires Summon Sea Turtle cantrip level 3 and a minimum SP requirement. It helps to drink a jug of maple syrup before you attempt this for the SP boost.
Do nothing	Wario will certainly overheat in his clothes and pass out, which will scare off the whales and they won't beach themselves! A certain microgame loss, which is a GOOD THING when it's Wario being involved.	Wario will smell really really bad from all that sweat inside the clothes, and those clothes he's wearing could be better served for campfires for your schmores.

Will you take the plunge? I actually froze Wario last year and it took me ALL week to clean off the goo from my overalls. This year I might try challenging Wario to a beach ball minigame, particularly with an explosive volleyball (see Beach Volleyball (Mario Party 5)). I'll check back to see if I can recommend that course of action. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 01:09, June 7, 2024 (EDT)

I wish I was hot like Wario, but not everyone in Europe experiences summer the same. While everyone in the more temperate parts of the continent, including my home country, get to enjoy the trappings of summer, from basking in the warm picnic sun to cooling off with a soda and ice cream, I only get to endure the sub 18 degree Celsius of Northern weather (and still risk getting sunburnt, 'cause hey, at least it's sunny). I'm mostly wearing short-sleeved T-shirts out of protest, which is pretty idiotic (meaning I'd be employee of the month at WarioWare, Inc.)
O, Wario, blessed be thy Germanic roots, open thy gaping mouth and let thy ancestors speak: what can I do in as harsh tides as those up north? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 13:19, June 9, 2024 (EDT)

Decided to answer the question by hiking up north into North Sea, with help of the orcas and jellyfish of course. I came back with an answer.

"WAHAHAH CHUMPS I'M TOO BUSY BEING FROZEN. I got me some big ol' seals to hug me to try to bring the temperatures up, but they ended up getting their stupid tongues glued to me! Until that red goody-two shoes, with more of his dumb ocean friends coming along, freed them. OOOOO I hate him so much! He needs to give me money for all that trouble I had to go through just to help some loser on a wiki! The note just ends in a bunch of raspberry noises. You might wonder, how is that decipherable in print? Well, fortunately the seals know a thing or two about Wario language so they provided very helpful pointers.

It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:59, June 9, 2024 (EDT)

Well, Wario, sooner or later someone will pick you up from the high seas and sell your frozen carcass thinking you're some prehistoric walrus. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 12:34, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

Regarding courses

There are numerous reasons I'd consider how I had it to be better. Aside from the obvious "English reads left-to-right," the icons don't accurately display how the courses look in practice, which is just as important as the icons, and especially what the track layout looks like - which for a racing game, is one of their most important aspects. And having to switch pages to find that info is monotonous, time-consuming, and annoying, having them in one easily accessible page formatted in a useful-and-space-efficient manner for easier comparison is much, much more convenient. Also, using the "*" for the wi-fi compatibility was confusing and easy-to-miss, using a relevant image is much more useful. I'm primarily inspired by Nintendo101 (talk)'s contributions on the 3D Mario platformers, I don't see how these differ significantly from those. Also the message you cited on my talk page was just about making it look good on smaller screens, which I have taken into account by making the windows dynamically rearrange themselves (which wasn't an easy solution to come up with but it works wonderfully in practice). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:33, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

I maintain that this design riddles the list with visual and informational clutter, which makes it look less like a useful chart and more like a collection of infoboxes. It looks bad regardless of display size, in addition to filling up the page with tens of thousands of bytes, all in the name of a moderate attempt at centralizing information on each course. In the above-mentioned comment, Waluigi Time duly addressed your tendency to add too many images to a table, a problem that resonates here as well: for each entry in MKDS's redesigned course list, there are 4 images shown, 2 of which are merely similar shots of the same course.
I'll agree that overhead maps present essential information about a race course and deserve to be somehow incorporated into the list (it seemed to work well enough when you worked on the Golf page), though that is not something I can state about music samples, the file names, and the staff ghosts. Readers looking to quickly navigate through a list of courses shouldn't be bombarded with information all at once. The concern that it's inconveniently scattered across many articles is something I'd consider to be unfounded given the solution of a Staff Ghost section (formerly on the same page) and the dedicated media list (just one click away).
I also fail to see the inspiration from Nintendo101's work on the articles for Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D World; his approach to course listing is actually very elegant and concise, with a reasonable amount of negative space between content as to make navigation comfortable, and not packed with superfluous stuff like audio files or galaxy icons that are not immediately important to someone looking for a chart of levels. That's not to mention the cautious use of images and color coding employed to illustrate each set of levels.
That said, I don't intend to remove your edits again. Others have the freedom to voice their opinions, too. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 12:41, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

I see media files and their lists as the same way I see images and their galleries; listed all in one place as a secondary option when there's nowhere else to put them. In this case, there is somewhere else to put them, and unlike most platformers where there can be multiple songs per course depending on what area you're in, the kart tracks are usually pretty consistent with one song per each (aside from sped up versions for lap three, and later games having negligibly different "frontrunning" versions). As for the shots on the courses, I'd like to have animations of the full track intros showing the different parts of the course's layout as it appears in-game, but I currently have no way to get those and they could be a potential memory bomb having them all there at once, unlike the still images. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:04, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

I'll second Koopa con Carne's comments and add my own commentary. If you're insistent on an "English reads left-to-right" style, why do tables such as this not make it possible to read all of a character's info like that on any display except the smallest? And why are the images on some of the tables so huge? The character images in this table take up half of my laptop's screen and almost half of my phone's screen. BMfan08 (talk) 13:55, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

I haven't gotten to making those ones dynamically sort yet, sorry, I'm only one person; compare how the MK64 character sections work, where depending on your screen/window size, there can be anywhere between 1 and 4 characters per row, which makes it look good on small monitors (no side-scrolling necessary) and wide monitors (less dead space). I plan on making them like that eventually, just give me some time. Then I promise it'll look good on your laptop and phone. Regarding large images, when it comes to artwork or model renders, I think being able to see the details is important, and for screenshots I prefer native res unless they're ridiculously big - in which case, I try to cut them down by an even amount, like 1/2 or 1/4 (plus, they give more room for listing stats underneath when they're larger). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:04, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

Alright then, I think I understand now. BMfan08 (talk) 14:14, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

to confirm

Are you still okay with me creating these universally applicable templates? I made one for Paper Mario recipes just now, for example. I just want to make sure I don't get in trouble again. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:58, June 25, 2024 (EDT)

I don't recall taking issue with your templates, in fact I praised your contributions in this area. The recipe template looks fine to me. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:08, June 25, 2024 (EDT)

I appreciate the compliment. It's much easier to curate content when there's universally consistent templates all over the site. Super Mario RPG (talk) 09:07, June 26, 2024 (EDT)

"This design is bad"

I'd consider shrunken sprites (inherently a bad thing), rows that have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much whitespace above and below the text due to sharing a row with screenshots, wide tables that deform upon being thinned, and relying on small text rather than easy-to-see images to be immeasurably worse than a table that has a very consistent design across each item, shows things at their intended size while keeping unnecessary dead space to a minimum, and makes it abundantly clear what goes where without having to scroll back up (always a nuisance). I really don't understand why you think otherwise. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:21, July 3, 2024 (EDT)

For the record, I don't really like Waluigi Time's attempt at a compromise either. It was all fine how it was before: courses listed neatly with one screenshot for each, and staff ghosts listed separately in another section. Staff ghost data takes too much space to be crammed like that, to say nothing of the fact that it's only relevant to time trials, meaning it can't be of immediate interest to someone simply looking for a list of courses in a given Mario Kart game. If you view negative space as inherently unnecessary and consider the hoarding of screenshots and media files into reduced spaces to be beneficial, that's fine; I don't, other users don't, and so far you have failed tremendously at accepting that you're not the only person benefitting from this site. I also don't care if you've asked "others" off-site for feedback. I won't debate further, because everything I had to say has been said. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:49, July 3, 2024 (EDT)

This tells me otherwise, and that last part just sounds... elitist against people without accounts. (Also, the main reason I moved the ghost info is I tried using it while going for unlocking things before, but it was so badly organized and differentiated in that separate list I had to search every time for what on my version would have been but a glance). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:57, July 3, 2024 (EDT)

I'm as open as can be to the opinions of people who aren't signed up on Mario Wiki, just not to those of people who are so vaguely invoked they may as well not even exist. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:43, July 3, 2024 (EDT)

Sentence structure for "generic" subjects

Hey, I know this is a topic you take interest in, so I wanted to direct you to this discussion I started. - Nintendo101 (talk) 21:40, July 7, 2024 (EDT)

Good faith

Hi, Koopa con Carne. I hope you are doing well.

I understand there are a lot of strong personalities on Super Mario Wiki that do not always engage with feedback the way one would want them to. I understand it can be frustrating to see significant changes happen to articles we all share. I also know that English is not your first language and cultural nuances are not always apparent. Additionally, like me, I know you advocate for constructive criticism and that is something we should always promote among each other. That raises all of us up. People fundamentally also should not accept major revisions they do not like just to avoid hurting others' feelings. This is a collaborative space and no one should be strong-arming changes.

However, regardless of intent, I do not think one "choses" whether or not they have hurt another person. I may not go as far as calling this a personal "verbal attack" in isolation, but I agree that comments like this one come across as harsh and not constructive. In context with subsequent remarks on your talk page that convey you believe Doc von Schmeltwick lied about other people supporting her tables as means to get what she wants, it all comes across as bad faith, unkind, and disrespectful.

I cannot speak to specific wiki policies or the actions of other users in the past. Mario Kart Wii is not the only place I have seen the discourse like this pop up, and there are a number of other users who I think should scrutinize how they engage with their fellow users. I am certainly no saint. But regardless, I really think we should assume well of each other's intents, practice good faith, and respect one another, especially among active users. I think our community and collective contributions would only be better for it. I trust that we all want the wiki to be the best it could be. I hope that all makes sense. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:36, July 24, 2024 (EDT)

Consider the fact that 5 years ago, in a time when attitudes on this wiki weren't so different from the ones today and the active userbase was in large part similar, a bureaucrat left this comment on a misbehaving user's talk page:
"What you did here is unacceptable: [...] is pouring piss-stained, flea-ridden pig shit on the open wound."
The wording in this comment always struck me as incredibly rude, even considering the wanton dishonesty of the user it was addressed to. It is understandable why that user's actions could become frustrating to others, but to address such a bitter and charged criticism, especially from the position of a bureaucrat, in an environment that's supposed to foster collaboration and constructiveness is contrary to those values. And yet, nobody raised a hand to object to that language. There was no Nintendo101 to pull Glowsquid aside and tell him "hey, cool it with the graphic descriptions, this isn't a gore website".
Why, then, does a remark on the perceived poor quality of another user's work, spoken in plain and unambiguous language, suddenly cross the line of what's ok? Let's dissect my comment and see why I do not agree with your assessment that it is unconstructive and made in bad faith:

• calling someone's work "bad", as opposed to stronger qualifiers such as "horrible" or "idiotic" (which, let me be clear, is not language I engage with on this wiki) is explicitly encouraged by the fourth point of "Discourteous behavior" at MarioWiki:Courtesy.
• "it's extremely crammed and hectic" is merely a description of the design as I saw it. It is not at all far removed, at least in tone, from remarks other users have expressed in that regard, including your own "demanding an unwarranted amount of attention with the information imparted" or LGM's "overloaded with information".
• "stop being so protective of your edits, you don't own the material shown here." practically reiterates what section 2 of MarioWiki:General disclaimer states regarding ownership of the content here and follows an edit that came across as overly forceful and, consequently, discourteous.

I did not condemn Doc's web design prowess, nor did I ask her to "git gud". I am fully conscious that growth cannot occur if you bully and tear apart a person's own being, which is not what's happening here. I strongly believe your reminder exaggerates my statement and I invite you to reconsider your attitude towards bluntness. What I said was direct and not at all veiled in flamboyant and "respectful" language, but it was not hostile and I fully stand by it. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 18:05, July 24, 2024 (EDT)

I do not know enough of the context about the exchange you cite, but I agree the language used seems inappropriate. But that is tangential because, as you said, I was not there for that. I am here for this.

I think there is some misunderstanding with what the issue is. I at least am not reaching out to you here because of "bluntness." Bluntness is perfectly fine. What bothered me is that the edit summary was, while probably unintentional, was perceived as unkind by the recipient, and when they expressed that to you, you seemed unreceptive. Again, I do not think one gets to choose if they hurt another person's feelings. If it happens, it happens. Some folks have tougher skin than others, you know? And it does not mean one should not be critical or blunt, just a little receptive to other's feelings. That is not an unreasonable thing to recommend.

For context, I think you can understand that folks have a lot of personal investment and attachment to the projects they create, especially if they are big time commitments. On some level they are extensions of the creator's themselves. So even if unintentional, when a user hears that their work is objectively bad, that can be internalized as a criticism of themselves. Even if you think it should not be like that, I think you can conceptually understand how that can happen.

The implication that another active user was intentionally being deceitful and manipulative legitimately bothers me though. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:06, July 24, 2024 (EDT)

There was nothing offensive in my message. Truthfully, I'm sympathetic to the experiences Doc has undergone--I still find myself pouring effort into actions that I fear may be misguided--but it's also true that these experiences are irrelevant to this project's development and that there are people who genuinely won't care. One shouldn't have to traipse this carefully around a community's ethos to be able to formulate an opinion. Quoth Ray Trace, "If contributors can't deal with criticism with other editors, which can sometimes forgo a little bit of courtesy for uesfulness, then they are simply not fit to be wiki editors." This was a rude awakening for me, though something I can only nod to in agreement as I look back. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:56, July 24, 2024 (EDT)

I can say there is little wisdom in quoting an out-of-context forum post I made 7 years ago. Ray Trace^(T|C) 20:20, July 24, 2024 (EDT)

I'm quoting it because it's a good perspective to have. If you have since changed your perspective, that's not my problem. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 03:05, July 25, 2024 (EDT)

I am not sure I agree with the Ray Trace of 2017, but I do not think they would either. None of us are the same people we were yesterday, let alone 2017.

I think we have all been in a position where we have invested a lot of effort and passion into a project, only for it to not be received well. Not a fun time - but how I personally come out of such scenarios and the quality of my work going forward is often dependent on what and how I am told, and by who. Your comments in particular are probably given more weight than the average user since you are so active and generally do good-quality work. That is part of the reason why I reached out to you, with the hope that you would be a little bit receptive. Those are all just my two cents, anyways. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:49, July 24, 2024 (EDT)

MKDS

Okay, I reverted all of the affected pages. Super Mario RPG (talk) 17:56, August 1, 2024 (EDT)

Everything else you did was great, though. Mario Kart course articles have this awkward sectioning where the "Layout" section is exclusively reserved for the course's original appearance, with the rest of its appearances being treated in different sections named after the relevant game. Your new layout changes fixed that. Also the application of the "cite" template, but that's needless to say. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 18:05, August 1, 2024 (EDT)

I appreciate you liking that. The course pages all have this issue with redundancy where the classic courses say "this is the second course in Banana Cup" twice or something like that. So how would you suggest I implement the changes, then? I'm reapplying the Cite template to the pages as we speak. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:09, August 1, 2024 (EDT)

Especially when a page houses large volumes of information about a subject, infoboxes are, foremost, designed to provide an easily digestible, often bulleted summary of that information. Through infoboxes, articles employ a degree of repetition that serves to drive a point to an audience. In the case of a Mario Kart course, knowing which cup it is found in can be considered a priority as readers attempt to engage with that course during gameplay, so that information is essential enough that it should exist in the infobox in addition to the article's more elaborate presentation of that course. This does not, in my opinion, befit the qualifier of "redundant", which defines a thing that is viewed as unnecessary in the given circumstances. On the other hand, the MKDS course template cannibalizes the infobox in the way of summarizing the most important points of a course's DS appearance, and the addition of aspects such as sponsors and Mission Mode levels strike me as an attempt to justify the existence of that template without even being the kind of content one looks for in "Profiles and statistics" sections. For the record, my understanding of "profiles" for the purposes of this wiki includes insights into a subject as originally provided in official works; this includes any sort of official descriptions, discretely assigned to a subject or not.
Speaking of, I'd like to also address why I don't think it's appropriate to move those "top-tier drivers" sections to the lists of profiles. I'll use an example: the reason Rose Queen has a list of favored courses in the "Profiles" section whereas DS Airship Fortress has its favored drivers in the article's body is because the former pretty much just mirrors the kart's profile that can be accessed in-game, whereas the latter is the Mario Wiki editor's interpretation of data derived from such profiles from the perspective of a single course. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 18:43, August 1, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, so one problem I had is that I wanted to cleanly put everything that is defined within the game itself as a variable. For example, the game decides which sponsors are on the trackside banners, which cup a course is in, which missions it's part of, which obstacles are placed, and so forth. But I can see how that could get tricky and not fit into the mold of either word. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:59, August 1, 2024 (EDT)

Citation needed for Mario's name

Concerning this edit.[4] While I understand it's better safe than sorry to have a source to confirm that Mario's name in another language hasn't changed, the proposal[5] was more likely created for instances where verification is much more important, particularly for more minor naming schemes from the Mario series. It's unreasonable to outline every single instance where you need add a citation needed or not, so I recommend to apply more discretion to names you believe need a citation. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:51, September 3, 2024 (EDT)

I'd like to add that even if this were for a minor character, the foreign names template has been updated to automatically show that references are needed (see the new category at the bottom of the page, "Articles with unsourced foreign names"). You simply don't need to add [reference needed] for unsourced names now, as it is redundant. Technetium (talk) 21:04, September 3, 2024 (EDT)

Proposal said this, without any further stipulations:
”As such, I believe it should be made mandatory for every name listed in the names in other languages sections to have a citation attached to it.”
My edit is, in fact, in line with the proposal. There’s nothing even implied there about practising discretion. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 02:06, September 4, 2024 (EDT)

KCC's right, he even brought up this specific scenario in the proposal comments, and no one bothered to clarify what to do in cases like this. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:55, September 4, 2024 (EDT)

Zelda

Hi, KCC. I'm not sure you have noticed, but I have been drafting a "crossover article" concept using The Legend of Zelda as a base, highlighting where it intersects with Super Mario. I thought about it as the proposals involving Smash Bros. material has come and go, and I think it has the potential to be a more serviceable consolidation of information otherwise scattered across the wiki. It's still in an early stage, but I wanted to know what you think. It can be found here. - Nintendo101 (talk) 10:42, September 15, 2024 (EDT)

I saw your next opus, rest assured. Not being big on Zelda (the BotW duology being the only two games in the series I enjoyed enough to beat), I can't make comments on the accuracy of the information, but I expect nothing short of the highest level of attention from you, honestly. I think it's clear even to me, though, how deeply wound around the Zelda and Mario series are at the roots and why that facilitates an entire article discussing their creative kinship. Nothing I can add except that the effort is tremendous and that you're bringing a much needed topic for the wiki to cover. You have a gift. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:31, September 15, 2024 (EDT)

Actually, maybe you could place the key artwork in the Smash Bros sections over to the right of the page? As they are now, they fracture the lists seen beside. I understand that you probably made the current choice so you'd make the article less monotonous to look at, but I feel like the presence of two images in the first Super Smash Bros. section already helps break that monotony. I dunno, just a small suggestion that's prolly not much important in ensemble. Regardless, good call to visually highlight Zelda elements standing alongside Mario elements. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:37, September 15, 2024 (EDT)

Discourtesy warning

This is a warning to stop your inappropriate behavior (discourteous behavior with other users) on the Super Mario Wiki. Please adhere to the rules or you will be blocked from editing this site. If you feel this warning was undeserved, you may appeal it.

There have been recurring instances where you have made rude remarks to other users and promoted bad-faith discourse, whether intentional or not, and have not adjusted your behavior despite indications from staff. These are in violation of our policies on courtesy, and warranted this warning. Some examples include:

• Here, where you dismiss Doc von Schmeltwick's table ideas and implied that she was lying about some of the remarks she made, which is bad faith. When subsequently raised by staff, you did not concede even though you were approached in good faith. In related discussions on the Mario Kart Wii talk page, you invoked posts from another user made over 7 years prior to undermine their current position, which breaks our policy on not “hold[ing] old offenses against an otherwise good user.”
• Here, where you called Nintendo101’s behavior "sanctimonious and annoying". The choice of words is derogatory and breaks the rule where you are not supposed to “tell admins what to do.”
• In a proposal, you called one of Glowsquid's responses "pedantic and with a dishonest premise," which is bad-faith and discourteous behavior. Glowsquid responded to that here. This is a particularly recurring pattern of behavior.
• Finally, on the recent Preying Mantas proposal, you said this. While you did eventually apologize for some of the language used, the ultimate assertion that the user you were replying to was being discriminatory and jingoistic remains. That is incredibly bad faith and discourteous to someone as active and participatory as Ray Trace.

Those are just some examples. This has been going on for a while without any reminder/warning from staff because of your generally substantive contributions to the wiki, but this cannot go on. Please take this warning seriously and be more mindful going forward when engaging with other users, especially in proposals. Please assume good faith in users. Sparks (talk) 10:11, September 16, 2024 (EDT)

Ah, well. I accept my warning. I'm not one to hold back on displaying my views and beliefs, but I understand that this is not the place to do it with such openness and honesty.
Just want to comment on a few things:

• “hold[ing] old offenses against an otherwise good user.” Evoking another user's comment, that I agree with, and asking for explanations as to why they changed their view, isn't revisiting an old offense. Because that was no offense.
• "The choice of words [...] breaks the rule where you are not supposed to 'tell admins what to do.'" Like the previous rule that forbid users from appealing admin warnings, this one should go. Mario Wiki admins aren't infallible gods. They're users with a few more responsibilities than others. Pretty much as human, otherwise. Maybe N101 had the right call to remind me of my behavior, but I disagree that I shouldn't be able to give feedback if I consider that comment transgressive for whatever reason. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 11:11, September 16, 2024 (EDT)

Hey just letting you know that I'm glad you took the warning well and I'm thankful for the apology you gave, don't let this stop you from contributing to the wiki. By the way coincidentally, we discussing that we also don't really like the "undermining admin authority" or "telling admins what to do" rule either, because this should extend to all users, not just admins; it's just general rude behavior that should be universally discouraged. As for the old comment I made all the way back in 2017, that was 7 years ago, and it's out-of-context (some editors can deal with more harsh criticism than others, etc. it's a bit nuanced, I might say this in relation to like, maybe editors I know or editors who are willingly arrogant and obtuse vs people who are new and learning); what I mean from that, yes, you should take negative feedback, sometimes yes, forgoing a little bit of courtesy to get the point across, but I also don't mean be way too blunt to the point where you're rude for the sake of it. I still agree to prioritize useful feedback, but that doesn't mean go all out rude on people. Ray Trace^(T|C) 19:48, September 16, 2024 (EDT)

@Ray Trace I'm sorry for the late response, I'm away from my PC.
I appreciate that you clarified the meaning behind said 7-year-old comment and how it compares to your views nowadays.
Regarding the response on Talk:Preying Mantas that got the warning rolling: I want to make it clear that the "lol you're patriotic" claim was no more than a cringeworthy joke. I like keeping discussions light-hearted, which is in the spirit of this community, but this time, my joke absolutely didn't land, and I once again apologize for it. I did not believe one second that you have such predilections.
The argument that I was quick to name "discriminatory" did genuinely rub me the wrong way; however, I am aware of the greatly negative societal meaning this word carries and how its use gutted whatever point I was trying to make regarding the relation between readers of this site and some cartoon jellyfish. For the sake of assuring you that my underlying point carried no malice (and not necessarily to take that discussion here and divert the one already present), I feel inclined to say this: I still strongly believe that "we speak X language, therefore the information communicated in that language is always the more correct one" is simply not the stance an encyclopedia should take; it relies on sources that, in discussing something with basis in someone's imagination, do not have an obligation to stay true to what is established, previously or presently, among other sources, sometimes more authoritative. And, yes, it also carries a quality that I find off--the wiki treats a multinational franchise, like I called it, so it should respect the perspectives readers from other nations come here with off of their experiences with the franchise, or, rather, not prioritize one perspective on lingual grounds. I'd like to make it very clear that I don't humor the "Japanese sources are the end all, be all" line of thought either. It's complicated. I foresee more opportunities to discuss this subject, but I don't want you to feel forced to respond to this topic here (though you're obviously free to do as you wish). -- KOOPA CON CARNE 13:49, September 18, 2024 (EDT)

Re:Jungle Beat guidebook

Right, that old thing. No, I'm not the source of that guide, nor is it one of the ones I have a copy of. The Imgur uploader went under the name "manspeed" (though here, he was presumably Vent (talk)). He is the same person who uploaded the Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten album and several key parts of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series guides, Super Mario RPG ASCII, Donkey Kong Country trading cards, etc. From my understanding, he did not like the attention his uploads were getting, so he privated it. Maybe he had his reasons, like being in the wrong jurisdiction. I don't know. Whatever the case, he's been inactive. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:30, September 16, 2024 (EDT)

United Nations Plaza

Hi, since you're similarly careful over the treatment of real-life subjects, I came to ask if you think I handled the United Nations Plaza edit appropriately, since I want to be careful of overlap between real-life subjects as they exist in real life versus fictional media like Super Mario, and one of the stock photos was being treated as a depiction of it in CD-ROM Deluxe when it's actually a stock photo used in the game. Super Mario RPG (talk) 06:21, September 19, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG I'm so sorry for the late response.
I'd like to state that this and other responses I gave to you with regard to the wiki's treatment of the so-called "generic subjects" is all just my opinion. It could be bollocks. If you wish to read more perspectives on the topic, I would also ask someone similarly involved with it, like Nintendo101.
I like that the caption of the photograph specifies that it is a stock photo. This is how I would have handled it myself. However, I do not agree with the changes you made to the opening paragraph. I assume it was an attempt to apply the same principle used for real-life generic subjects, where the first sentence omits an explanation on the nature of the subject since it's expected that readers already know what it is (see apple, grape, whale, frog). But the thing is, not all real-world subjects are generic. A monument (such as the United Nations Plaza) or a historical figure from our reality that finds its way in a fictional work cannot be assumed to be known by everyone, so it's sensible to put a short description on the thing to bring everyone who reads its Mario Wiki article up to speed.
Even then, you didn't go all the way through. The presentation of the monument is still there, it's just placed after it is stated to appear in a Mario game. As it stands, the edit simply swaps two pieces of syntax in the opening for seemingly no reason; imagine, if you will, how such phrasing would fare in the opening statement of a proper Mario-related subject, like Goomba:

Goombas, initially called Little Goombas, appear in the Super Mario franchise. They are one of the major species of this franchise, being small, brown, mushroom-like creatures with two feet [...]

Sounds kinda weird, innit? If you can assume that some or perhaps most readers do not know about a subject, or come to this wiki to learn about said subject, tell 'em what it is first. Grapes and apples are an exception and don't need a refresher (I don't believe they are exotic to anyone, even in places where they don't occur naturally), but something like the United Nations Plaza benefits from an introduction. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 08:39, September 26, 2024 (EDT)

Citations

I've wanted to get something off my chest for a while now, and that's why I think citations are important. I've noticed lots of articles don't have that many citations, and it's been bothersome to me for a while now. I'll give an example of why I think even media can be good to cite in cases.

So to give an example of something I think benefits from an in-game citation, Mr. Luggs shoots 15 fireballs the first time and then five fireballs subsequently. I think previously the idea was that if someone wanted to verify a fact for themselves, they would be expected to either play the game themselves or look at a video. Thing is, not everyone wants to play video games all the time, and there's several who have to work full shifts during a day. I've read that a person here is more interested in the research of them, too. Citations are important in research, whether it's writing a thesis in school or writing a wiki article. Even if citing videos, it may take effort to get to the exact spot of a video that corroborates a wiki statement, especially if that video is a longplay; in that case, it may take as much time combing through the exact part of the video than finding it in the game itself.

There's lots of dialogue in role-playing games, where I think it becomes especially important since most role-playing games are not linear. And dialogue is sometimes locked between multiple-choice options for the player. I can't remember exacts, but I have seen game dialogue from Super Mario Galaxy being cited before, presumably for the similar reason that it is paired with the sentence.

Now for when a character describes a subject, that wouldn't count as a quote from the subject, nor would it count as a profile. For example, a Message Block describing how to aim Yoshi's Eggs in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island ("Roses are red, violets are blue, never forget, what I say to you. Timing is vital, aim must be true, measure the angle and win, do!"): This "adds on" to the statement of aiming Yoshi's Eggs with official word from the Message Block, so citing a quote from the character (Message Block) puts it all together with the sentence in the article that explains about, perhaps, the act of aiming the egg. Since it's not a quote from a Yoshi's Egg, it wouldn't fit under a designated Quotes section, but that would apply to the Message Block page, though, since the Message Block isn't the recipient of that quote.

Now very obvious things like "Mario can jump in Super Mario Bros." doesn't need any citation, nor would "Goombas are enemies in Super Mario Galaxy. But the precise, minor details like how many fireballs are launched by Mr. Luggs does benefit because it's something very precise and not a super obvious thing like "Luigi can use a Poltergust 3000," unless the sentence also encompasses how to use the Poltergust if it draws a direct parallel to a quote from, like, E. Gadd.

Now that all was a bit hard for me to explain, but basically it's a matter of case-by-case to me. Overall, citations make the articles look well researched. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:50, November 18, 2024 (EST)

I agree. The more esoteric the steps are that a player has to follow to get to a point in a game, the more practical it becomes to actively source that somehow. I've done that myself, here for instance, where I wanted to describe as thoroughly as I could how pumpkins work in Luigi's Mansion 2 (on 3DS). Not only is the area they are found in officially unplayable with Nintendo discontinuing 3DS online play, but even before, you had to scour entire rooms in that level to find the object in question and have some other specific enemies in the same room interact with it. Having some footage on hand to demonstrate how this object acts gameplay-wise, already convenient in itself, is much needed in these circumstances. For similar reasons, I'm planning on uploading some self-recorded gameplay footage of Mario Kart Tour to YouTube in order to source some claims on the articles for Toy Duck, Toy Goomba, and Hoop--background objects that most players (including YT let's-players) are unlikely to care about or even be aware that they're gameplay-relevant during the short time frame they appear in the game. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:14, November 18, 2024 (EST)

RE: Dutch Koopa profile

Your translation is pretty good, well done. "Everyone turns pale" is indeed correct, although I would perhaps translate it as "everyone pales" instead myself. Either is fine. For the fourth sentence, "eventually finds" would seem more correct if put as "will eventually find", and "anyway" is not present in the original so can be dropped. Those things aside, keep up the good work! Lakituthequick 17:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)