MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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#{{User|DrippingYellow}} Say what you will about trying not to separate variations of characters, even in media with notable differences from the "main canon" (i.e. ''[[Super Mario Bros. Super Show|Super Show]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!|Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen]]''), these characters still have recognizable attributes. Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi certainly fit the bill of mere variations, but others I'm a little more icky on, with this lining up most easily with my opinions. With the film being designed to be a deliberate departure from other Mario material, it makes sense not to merge film characters unless they have significantly overlapping roles with their game counterparts. (e.g. Goombas are still the front-line weaklings, Yoshi is still held captive by Koopa and has a long tongue...)<br>The only merges I entirely disagree with here are the Snifits (who don't shoot bullets at all, and, if I had to guess, had their name chosen just because they "sniff 'it' (the garbage)"). As well as the King because... umm... he's not the king of the mushroom kingdom, nor Peach's father? I don't even get this connection to be honest. Nevertheless, I'm willing to wait it out to change those if this passes, because something something two-party system...
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} Say what you will about trying not to separate variations of characters, even in media with notable differences from the "main canon" (i.e. ''[[Super Mario Bros. Super Show|Super Show]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!|Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen]]''), these characters still have recognizable attributes. Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi certainly fit the bill of mere variations, but others I'm a little more icky on, with this lining up most easily with my opinions. With the film being designed to be a deliberate departure from other Mario material, it makes sense not to merge film characters unless they have significantly overlapping roles with their game counterparts. (e.g. Goombas are still the front-line weaklings, Yoshi is still held captive by Koopa and has a long tongue...)<br>The only merges I entirely disagree with here are the Snifits (who don't shoot bullets at all, and, if I had to guess, had their name chosen just because they "sniff 'it' (the garbage)"). As well as the King because... umm... he's not the king of the mushroom kingdom, nor Peach's father? I don't even get this connection to be honest. Nevertheless, I'm willing to wait it out to change those if this passes, because something something two-party system...
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Mario and Luigi have some similarities with their video game counterparts, but Toad, Iggy and Spike have nothing in common with their namesake, Big Bertha is way too different to the fish she is based on, and Daisy seems more like "Princess Toadstool but we called her Daisy because "Toadstool" is not a given name".
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Mario and Luigi have some similarities with their video game counterparts, but Toad, Iggy and Spike have nothing in common with their namesake, Big Bertha is way too different to the fish she is based on, and Daisy seems more like "Princess Toadstool but we called her Daisy because "Toadstool" is not a given name".
#{{User|Biggestman}} I agree with all above points, however if there was an option to also keep President Koopa split I would vote for that, he's literally just not the same guy in the movie in any way whatsoever.
<s>#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Secondary choice; per proposal.</s>
<s>#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Secondary choice; per proposal.</s>


Revision as of 18:43, April 12, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Tuesday, March 11st, 15:52 GMT
Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below).
  • Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so.
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

  1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
  2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
  3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
  9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
    • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
  10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
  12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
  13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
  14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
  16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
  17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
  20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary. 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal."

Poll proposal formatting

As an alternative to the basic proposal format, users may choose to create a poll proposal when one larger issue can be broken down into multiple sub-issues that can be resolved independently of each other. In a poll proposal, each option is essentially its own mini-proposal with a deadline and Support/Oppose subheadings. The rules above apply to each option as if it were a its a two-option proposal: users may vote Support or Oppose on any number of options they wish, and individual options may close early or be extended separately from the rest. If an option fails to achieve quorum or reach a consensus after three extensions, then the status quo wins for that option by default. A poll proposal closes after all of its options have been settled, and no action is taken until then. If all options fail, then nothing will be done.

To create a poll proposal, copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the option deadlines will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". 

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}

====[option title (e.g. Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====[option title (e.g. Option 3)]: [brief summary of option]====
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

;Support
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} Per proposal.

;Oppose

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

A poll proposal is archived after all of its options have settled, and it is listed as one single proposal in the archive. The proposal is considered to have "passed" if one or more options were approved by voters (resulting in a change from the status quo), and it is considered to have "failed" if all options were rejected by voters and no change in the status quo was made.

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{ongoing TPP}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)
^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles and Super Mario Run.
Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)
Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)
Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)
Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)
Split Mario & Luigi badges and remaining accessories, Camwoodstock (ended February 1, 2025)
Merge Chef Torte and Apprentice (Torte), Camwoodstock (ended February 3, 2025)
Merge intro/outro sections, rename Gameplay section to "Overview" for Mario Party minigame articles, ToxBoxity64 (ended March 1, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)
Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)
Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)
Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)
Split the Ink Bomb, Camwoodstock (ended January 12, 2025)
Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)
Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles, Camwoodstock (ended January 31, 2025)
Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy, Waluigi Time (ended February 8, 2025)
Split Animal Crossing (game), Kaptain Skurvy (ended February 12, 2025)
Split the modes in the Battles page, Mario (ended February 15, 2025)
Count ongoing serialized comics for latest appearances, Rykitu (ended March 2, 2025)
Split Toad wearing headphones off from Jammin' Toad, PrincessPeachFan (ended March 7, 2025)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts

Currently, several articles exist for characters from Super Mario Bros. (1993) that share names with and are to some extent based on corresponding characters from the source material. While from a certain perspective this makes sense (these characters are substantially different from the characters they're based on), no other non-game-compliant Mario adaptation is given this treatment. SMW:CANON suggests that all official sources should be treated equally, including in cases when these sources contradict each other. I believe that the 1993 film is a very clear case when this applies, and I propose that some if not all of these articles should be merged with their corresponding game characters.

Now, to this one might suggest: "But the characters from the 1993 film really are canonically not the same in-universe people as their game counterparts! Doesn't that mean they should be covered separately?" The thing is, that's not how this wiki treats different versions of the same character in any other instance. The article Donkey Kong covers the character Donkey Kong, including in games where that character is "canonically" Cranky Kong. Paper Mario (character) is only considered a separate character from Mario in the very specific case where the two characters coexist alongside each other. Two works of media portraying different iterations of the same character is seemingly always treated as being the same character, and the coverage of Super Mario Bros. (1993) is a strange exception to this.

The relevant articles are:

Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Deadline: April 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to April 18, 2023, 23:59 GMT

Merge all Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts

  1. JanMisali (talk) First choice, per proposal.
  2. Mario (talk) Echoing my sentiments in my 2016 proposal[1] a bit (tho I promise to be less grouchy :O}D). Even with the filmmmaker's contrived notion that live action movie Mario is supposed to be a separate entity from Mario from the Mario Kart series, if you work with that logic backward, they're still variants of each other, basically two different takes of the Mario the Super Brother. This can extend for the other characters. That being said, some of the target pages articles are big enough as they are already but I s'pose that's a different problem irrelevant to the logic of these pages.
  3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Keeping the coverage on the same article reflects how they're the same thing. Different entity doesn't necessarily mean different subject. If anything, separate articles on the film characters would set an unwelcome precedent for scattering information of like, let's say, Super Mario-kun or Super Mario Bros. Movie counterparts of Mario into separate articles, which we'd want to avoid.
  4. SolemnStormcloud (talk) I think it's best to not be arbitrary with who gets merged or not based on how different they are from their "main" counterpart. Per all.
  5. Ahemtoday (talk) Maybe I could work with this kind of continuity-based differentiation in a series with, like, any sense of continuity, but I don't really think the Mario series has that.
  6. Camwoodstock (talk) We think this makes the most sense, and in the name of consistency, what we do to one, we should probably do to all. Besides, it's not like the 1993 movie is even the first time that a different entity has used the name of a pre-existing entity--though unlike things like G(al)oombas, the 1993 movie incarnations stand alone, with only things like gags in mangas deciding that the movie incarnations are different from the original characters (such as what happened to Yoshi)--and even in those cases, it's pretty clearly not part of some deep lore for the film itself. We hope this rationale makes sense, anyways? As we write this we're a tad tired, so if you need clarification, just ask politely.
  7. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I forgot I hadn't voted. I prefer this option. I'd be fine with the other popular option (for now), aside from questioning why Toad is part of the exclusions.

Merge most of these, but keep Spike and Big Bertha separate from the enemies they're based on

Merge most of these, but keep Goomba and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based on

Merge most of these, but keep Spike, Big Bertha, Goomba, and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based on

  1. JanMisali (talk) Third choice, per proposal.

Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate

  1. JanMisali (talk) Second choice, per proposal.
  2. Hewer (talk) I agree with merging the more obviously game-inspired characters like Mario and Luigi where the split feels more like a vestige of the wiki's former obsession with its made-up idea of canon, but merging characters like Iggy and Spike where pretty much the only thing in common is the name with (to my knowledge) little indication they're even based on the game characters doesn't feel right. EDIT: I agree with DrippingYellow's comment about how the King and Mushroom King shouldn't be merged though, since their only similarity is that they're both kings, but that can be dealt with in another proposal.
  3. Arend (talk) I'm most hesitant about merging Daisy. As you know, Daisy is pretty much the movie's equivalent of Princess Toadstool, and in a previous concept, was even named Hildy/Heidi/whichever of the two it was. Had that name not been changed to Daisy, many would obviously argue to merge it with Princess Peach instead. I would also say that it's pretty bizarre to have one of the two bumbling henchmen be based on a Koopaling while the other is based on a random enemy, instead of both being based on a Koopaling (we got seven of those guys; they couldn't have called the other henchman "Larry"?); not to mention that this version of Toad was once called Lemmy (another Koopaling).
  4. Tails777 (talk) Leaning more on this idea. There are the obvious ones, but I think the ones holding me back from an all out merge are Spike and Big Bertha, as they seem way different compared to what they are supposedly based off of (also the Iggy one feels a bit off to merge with the Koopaling).
  5. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per all
  6. Archivist Toadette (talk) I think I'd rather go with this option, since those particular subjects have too little overlap with their game "counterparts". Besides, how would a carnivorous freshwater fish share clear commonality with an...uncomfortably attractive humanoid being?
  7. OmegaRuby (talk) Per all, Archivist Toadette especially.
  8. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all of yall (collectively)
  9. DrippingYellow (talk) Say what you will about trying not to separate variations of characters, even in media with notable differences from the "main canon" (i.e. Super Show and Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen), these characters still have recognizable attributes. Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi certainly fit the bill of mere variations, but others I'm a little more icky on, with this lining up most easily with my opinions. With the film being designed to be a deliberate departure from other Mario material, it makes sense not to merge film characters unless they have significantly overlapping roles with their game counterparts. (e.g. Goombas are still the front-line weaklings, Yoshi is still held captive by Koopa and has a long tongue...)
    The only merges I entirely disagree with here are the Snifits (who don't shoot bullets at all, and, if I had to guess, had their name chosen just because they "sniff 'it' (the garbage)"). As well as the King because... umm... he's not the king of the mushroom kingdom, nor Peach's father? I don't even get this connection to be honest. Nevertheless, I'm willing to wait it out to change those if this passes, because something something two-party system...
  10. Jdtendo (talk) Mario and Luigi have some similarities with their video game counterparts, but Toad, Iggy and Spike have nothing in common with their namesake, Big Bertha is way too different to the fish she is based on, and Daisy seems more like "Princess Toadstool but we called her Daisy because "Toadstool" is not a given name".
  11. Biggestman (talk) I agree with all above points, however if there was an option to also keep President Koopa split I would vote for that, he's literally just not the same guy in the movie in any way whatsoever.

#SolemnStormcloud (talk) Secondary choice; per proposal.

Only merge Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, President Koopa/Bowser, and King; keep the rest separate

Merge Goomba and Snifit, but keep the characters separate

Other

  1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Considering all of the "History of X" articles that have been written, why don't we keep the separate articles, but rebrand them as "History of X in Super Mario Bros. (1993)"? Maybe down the road, if Illumination gets enough content, we'll think about if we want to do "History of X in film" or "History of X in cartoons/television" or something. This'll satisfy the proposal's condition while lightening the load. Plus, this'll save the headache of merging the character infoboxes (unless the idea was to keep them intact in film sections).

Do nothing

  1. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) While I completely understand and agree with MarioWiki:Canonicity and the points stated above, I just don't want these to be merged at all. All of the characters mentioned are very different from their game counterparts, and many characters that are non-human in the video games are at least partially human in the movie (like Bowser (video game character) and King Koopa (movie "counterpart"). This is enough for me to not want to merge any of the pages.
  2. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per FOR2007.
  3. SeanWheeler (talk) The 1993 movie was an awful adaptation that changed too much. I would want Bob Hoskins' Mario to remain separate from the the games' Mario. President Koopa is clearly very different from Bowser.
  4. LinkTheLefty (talk) I'm still okay with this, too. I know we don't make canonical judgments, but when creatives do on the rare occasion, that's where I think we should stand. After all, "This Ain't No Game." Per myself in the old proposal.

Comments

Haven't decided on an option but I will at least link the original proposal that split them. Mario jumping Nightwicked Bowser Bowser emblem from Mario Kart 8 19:18, April 4, 2024 (EDT)

It's interesting to read through this old discussion, especially how much the focus at the time seems to have been on specifically Daisy. Nobody in this whole proposal or the "Peach/Daisy in Film" proposal before it ever suggests the idea of giving specifically Mario (film character) a separate article! I wonder how that happened. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:05, April 4, 2024 (EDT)

https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Remerge_most_Super_Mario_Bros._film_information
Here is my attempt that ended up being vetoed. Mario It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:01, April 4, 2024 (EDT)

Did this need to be one huge proposal? The fact that there are seven options as well as an "Other" option (which, how would that even work if it got the most votes?) suggests to me that the Mario Bros. movie live-action subjects have far too much range in how close they are to their OG counterparts for this to be resolved in one seven-day proposal. For instance, I mostly agree with the fifth option, except for the inclusion of the King among the merged characters (considering that unlike the Mushroom King, he is neither the king of the Mushroom Kingdom nor Peach's father (he's Daisy's father)).
If we were to add options for every little disagreement with the proposal author's reasoning in this particular instance, it would become a nightmare to try and find an appropriate option to vote on. I'd suggest splitting the proposal based on character roles (e.g. one for main characters, one for minor characters like Yoshi, one for creatures like Goombas, and one for references-in-name-only like Toad, Big Bertha, etc.) DrippingYellow (talk) 13:36, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

I would argue that range from source material isn't much of a factor in so much as they're variants of a source character and my understanding is that we do sometimes merge whack variants of the same entity, such as Skeeters. I'd go for the straightforward option because I don't see much merit debating within gradience of who gets a separate article or not. Mario It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 13:56, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
I'd still argue that there's a point where it's not so much a variant as it is an entirely new character that only uses an existing character name as a callback. The film's plot provides a framework for this, considering it is loosely based off of the Mario games' story: Princess Daisy is the damsel-in-distress, Koopa is the antagonist who kidnaps her, Goombas are his lackeys, Yoshi is a dinosaur with a long tongue who is also held captive by Koopa, and Mario and Luigi are the heroes. Those are definitely a variation of standard Mario features.
However, then there are characters like Big Bertha who shares no similarities with her namesake other than being... well, big. Not to mention she should probably stay split anyway considering normal Big Bertha is an enemy species, while this Big Bertha is a unique character. Spike at the very least should also be split for similar reasons. Big Bertha's connection to her original inspiration would at least be more plausible if, for example, she was a marine biologist or had a scene where she saved Mario from drowning or something. I'm a little more inclined to merge Toad, since he gives exposition about the fungus (which would line up with the original character's appearance), but then again, he was originally named Lemmy, so the connection there may not have been intentional. And as for the King vs. the Mushroom King, the Mushroom King article is a catch-all for anytime the king of the Mushroom Kingdom. To include a King in that article who exists in a continuity where there is no Mushroom Kingdom seems a little odd. DrippingYellow (talk) 14:43, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
To be fair, we can't think of how else to showcase the granularity of the options than the deluge of choices; short of something like a checkbox-esque "vote for this one if you think it should be split!" proposal, which is entirely unprecedented and we have no real way of handling. Is it clunky? Yes. But it's either this, a bunch of standalone proposals (which could get even more messy), or some entirely new form of proposal gets invented just to handle this. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 14:57, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
I don't really see how the standalone option would make things messier. Is it that hard to keep track of multiple proposals? The choice would be between that or a list of options that is either unreadably long or doesn't have an option that aligns with your opinion due to something like an assumption by the author. DrippingYellow (talk) 21:29, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

By the by, what's this version of Spike called in the Japanese localization of the film? I think that's important to ask because we do in fact have another Spike in this franchise, one who is decidedly NOT called "Gabon" in Japanese, ever. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 15:58, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

On the contrary, the thought has crossed my mind to go in the other direction and have something done with the Paper Mario universe and characters, but it'd probably be controversial. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:21, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

Strongly disagree, the arguments against all hold. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:51, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
I would oppose covering all Paper Mario appearances in the Paper character articles and I would also oppose merging them all with their regular counterparts. Mario jumping Nightwicked Bowser Bowser emblem from Mario Kart 8 17:25, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
You see, while the 1993 Mario movie characters are drastically different from their mainline game counterparts (or namesakes), the same cannot be said about the Paper Mario characters, which stay relatively close to the source material in comparison. Sure, the first three games gave most enemies a couple of design quirks that stand out from the mainline games, but they are still recognizable as those enemies.
Same deal with the 2023 Mario movie counterparts; they have some differences, but are still clear and recognizable as the same characters. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 17:41, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
I never really nailed down how it would work, but wouldn't be as full splits. Maybe something along the lines of how we now have "History" articles split from their sections. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:45, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Regarding Iggy, unused scripts on the SMBMovieArchive website show that originally, there were other Koopaling-named characters (like Morton and Wendy as announcers), showing Iggy was an intentional reference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:31, April 8, 2024 (EDT)

But still, being named after another character doesn't necessarily make them the same character given how otherwise completely different they are, especially considering what's already been brought up about how characters like Toad were originally named differently. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:13, April 8, 2024 (EDT)

This needs looked into some more as I can't remember for certain, but I seem to recall the script referring to the generic Dinohattan police officers as Koopa Troopas (a variation of that name was given to Goombas in earlier development). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:59, April 9, 2024 (EDT)

@Doc von Schmeltwick: As Arend mentioned, the character that ended up being "Toad" was originally called Lemmy, which to me feels like evidence that the inspiration doesn't extend beyond the name, and merging based on that alone would be a strange choice. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:45, April 10, 2024 (EDT)

Aside from being an ally. The "good Goomba" character at that point in the script rewrites was a separate character named "Hark," anyway, and there were other associated "freedom fighter"-type characters in addition to the one who is Toad in the final. Also, he was called "Toad" first, with "Lemmy" being used for a single draft in mid-production. In the first "Wizard of Oz"-style draft, he had basically the same role Toad would be given in the more recent movie, but drifted slowly from that as rewrites occured. He is still, therefore, primarily derived from the games' Toad. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:14, April 10, 2024 (EDT)

@LinkTheLefty: Considering the "History of <x character> in <the cartoons they appear in>" articles are still waiting for their cigarette and tinder box before their execution via categorization as much as we deeply, deeply regret that proposal, we don't exactly see a "History of <x character> in Just The 1993 Movie" turning out well, unfortunately. Camwoodstock-sigicon.png~Camwoodstock (talk) 10:46, April 12, 2024 (EDT)


Template:Quote2 Well, before you extended the proposal, there were 19 voting users in total, if I'm not mistaken, and according to rule 9, more than half of the total amount of voters (in this case, more than 9.5 voters) must show up in a single voting option. If I get that right, that means at least 1 voting option must have more than 9.5 votes... and uh, the "Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate" section has 10 votes, meaning that must have won.
However, you decided to vote too while extending the proposal, meaning that there's now 20 voting users, and the "Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate" section now requires more than 10 votes... thus, 11.
Since you decided to cast in votes alongside extending the proposal, when it should have enough results to not require an extension, I'm honestly not sure if we should end the proposal now and remove subsequent votes and comments from prior the extension, or keep the extension for another week. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 18:00, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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