Talk:Rainbow Star

I don't know, but this info must be merged with the Star article. practically, Mario becomes invincible by that (similar to a "common" star), and is possible that "rainbow star" be a stylized starman. ¢oincoll€ctor

• It seems a fair bit different than a standard Star, as it increases Mario's speed, and causes any enemies that Mario destroys with it to break up into Star Pieces (or whatever they're called). If it just made Mario rainbow-colored and invincible with no other differences than standard Invicible Mario, then I could see the need for a merger. -- Booster

Don't normal Stars as well speed up Mario? At least they do in the Mario Kart series, and I think in Super Mario World... / Time Q 05:44, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

The arguement that it causes enemies to break up into star peices is no good, as nearly every enemy that mario beats turns into them. Peachycakes 3.14

There is also the point of the theme that usually is associated with Invincible Mario is used for Rainbow Mario

I agree with Time Q. Common Stars DO speed up Mario. Also, the "Star Pieces" are called Star Bits. MarioKid (Talk) 15:01, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

Look what I found

When I was playing the Rainbow star can be found at the Good Egg Galaxy at some weird chain chomp planet inside of a pipe. When he become Rainbow Mario he can stop. Princess Butterfly 18:26, 13 November 2007 (EST)

It was rediculous to think you couldn't stop running while useing it just because of a video, you don't WANT to stop when you have a starman. Peachycakes 3.14

Merge

I say this page should be merged with Super Star. The only difference between the two is appearance, and that's only the colours, the actual shape remains identical. MarioKid (Talk) 17:59, 31 March 2016 (EDT)

I believe this has already been discussed. Not only does Mario's appearance change, his speed increases, giving him a temporary speed boost. They aren't quite the same. 19:32, 31 March 2016 (EDT)

But exactly HOW are they different? The Super Star also increases Mario's speed. MarioKid (Talk) 14:58, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

They're simply distinct items, that just so happen to have the same function. On the flipside, we split Power Star, the star from the Mario Party series, and Mario's Star, even though they're technically the same item, just with a completely different function (they probably should get mentioned in the article in some way or another however). I say its appearance and name alone is good enough for a split for this article. Ray Trace^(T|C) 15:18, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

The Super Star actually doesn't increase Mario's speed. You're probably confusing that players often continuously run while under the effects of the Super Star (or Starman or whatever you want to call it) as they don't have to worry about accidentally running into a Goomba or something. 16:36, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

In New Super Mario Bros. I know for a fact it increases your speed, having played Mario vs Luigi far too often. I also think it does that in New Super Mario Bros. Wii as well. I run a lot in those games, and there's definitely a difference in speed when under effects of the star. I don't think it applies to previous installments like Super Mario World, though. Ray Trace^(T|C) 16:40, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

Ah, my bad. I haven't played the NSMB series a lot recently. But I agree with you, BL. Name and appearance alone is reason enough for it own article. 19:52, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

I wouldn't say so. Also, I have seen myself, the Superstar DOES increase speed. And I'm not being confused, I run as if I'm invincible even when I'm not, and I can tell for a fact that the Superstar increases speed. Name and appearance, also, is not enough for something to warrant it's own article. MarioKid (Talk) 02:01, 13 April 2016 (EDT)

If you really want to merge this article, why don't you start a TPP? Though keep in mind that I will oppose your call to merge, as reasons stated above. Ray Trace^(T|C) 19:00, 13 April 2016 (EDT)

Okay, but how do I start a TPP? MarioKid (Talk) 20:57, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Look at how the talk page of Super Star handled it. Try copying the coding there, paste it to this talk page, then altering to fit in your own reasons. Make sure the deadline is 2 weeks after the day you proposed it (if it's today, the deadline would be in May 14, 2016 ,23:59 GMT). When you're done, update the list of Talk Page proposals, also copying and pasting and altering the coding to match. Ray Trace^(T|C) 21:02, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Merge with Super Star

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

failed 5-13
There are a few reasons:

• The music that plays is the same
• The actual effect is the same
• Unlike what a lot of people will be saying, the Super Star does increase speed
• It's basically a renamed, stylized Super Star

Proposer: MarioKid (talk)
Deadline: May 14, 2016, 23:59 GMT

Merge

1. MarioKid (talk) Per my proposal
2. LudwigVon (talk) - Unless there are good reasons for their separation from the Super Star except the different color and name, I think it is a good idea that it should merge with Super Star, in my opinion the developers of Super Mario Galaxy (and SMG2) chose to change the style to avoid that the player may have confusion between the Super Star and Power Star, since they have a similar style. We have RPG items merge together despite the name difference and have the same effect (from what I know: Turtley Leaf, Chocolate Cake and Fried Shroom Plate (Fried Shroom and Shroom Fry have the same effect for the last one). So, the same logics should also be used here.
3. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) Merge Rainbow Mario with Invincible Mario as well.
4. Reboot (talk). If it's the name that's in question, are we going to split Star, Starman and Super Star from Super Star, depending on what the manuals for a particular game called them? Or how about the flashing version of the star (with Can-Can music) from Super Mario Land - Super Stars don't usually flash (although the Rainbow Star kinda does).
5. Pseudo-dino (talk) Per LudwigVon in terms of the Rainbow Star merely being a redesign to avoid confusion with the Power Star. The item's effects are identical to Super Stars in 2D Mario games.

Don't merge

1. Alex95 (talk) - I know there are several other Power-Ups that do the some thing as another, yet have a different name and/or appearance. So, unless we're willing to do merging for those as well, I'm going to say no.
2. Baby Luigi (talk) Per myself above and reasons it got split in the first place. They're distinct items, distinct enough to warrant separate articles. The logic also works in the flipside to why Mario's Star, Power Star, and the like are split: even though those items have the same literal appearance as a star, they have completely different purposes and hence why they're split. It makes more sense this way and it's less convoluted than merging this item together with the other.
3. Tails777 (talk) Regardless of the similar effects, they are still treated as different power-ups. Consider Rainbow Stars the Mario Galaxy version of Super Stars.
4. Megadardery (talk) I don't actually agree with the "they have different appearance period" argument, but since the super star reappeared in latter Mario games, this clearly was not a replacement for it, just a different version.
5. Time Turner (talk) Per all.
6. SmokedChili (talk) Despite the similar function, it has both different appearance and names in both English and Japanese, and that's good enough for me to have this split.
7. LinkTheLefty (talk) There actually is a fairly major difference between Invincible Mario and Rainbow Mario - the latter also expels Star Bits for every enemy collision (granted, you can also do this by spinning and knocking into certain enemies, but that's not always an option). This can be more easily observed and proven if you take Rainbow Mario to other areas. In addition to the universal name and appearance change, I believe that's reason enough to remain separate.
8. Chocolate Mario (talk) Per all.
9. Bazooka Mario (talk) Though I supported a merge last time, this time, I'm more inclined to keeping them split. This proposal both has good points, but when in doubt, generally it's better to have little articles than have a big article on everything, in my opinion. Keeping the Rainbow Star split helps with search results and gives readers a bit to read about, so I think it's overall a harmless article that can stay.
10. Andymii (talk) Per all.
11. AfternoonLight (talk) Per all!
12. Niiue (talk) Per all.
13. Fawful's Minion (talk) No I don't think so because they're two completely different items.

Comments

I'll also point out that you need to consider Invincible Mario and Rainbow Mario. Also, the rainbow effects are similar, except in Super Mario Galaxy 2, where the developers just got really lazy. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 21:59, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Alex95: Mega Mushroom from Mario Party 4? There was even a failed proposal to split it (and Mini Mushroom), so keep that in mind. You can challenge those outcomes, but keep in mind, it's pretty inconsistent how we deal with that stuff either way. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 22:09, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Alex95: Can I know what are the "several others power-ups"? --^(TALK) 22:11, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

The only one that comes to mind right now are the Green Stars. There are ones from Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D World. They both share the same effect (collect them to unlock more stages) and even the same name, yet they have two different articles. 22:16, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

I'm sure they should be merge, I don't even know why they are separate.--^(TALK) 22:19, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

I support a merge of that article as well, there's no reason they need to be separate. Ray Trace^(T|C) 22:22, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Oh wow, I'm involved in that related proposal and its follow-up too to keep it split (LeftyGreenMario and Mario are me). Right now, I don't know if we should split this or not. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 22:23, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

I honestly think the stuff they do isn't completely different enough to warrant a separate article. In a sense, both are still fundamentally collectable items in a 3D platforming game. It's just that one of them has a fancy finish animation and the other doesn't. Ray Trace^(T|C) 22:24, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Pretty much, yeah. There's absolutely no difference. To be honest, this is the only item I can find looking through the list. But I'm sure there's more. I'm just not checking EVERY item to find one. 22:28, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Baby Luigi: Mario's Star and Power Stars have very different functions, the only difference between Rainbow Stars and Power Stars is the name and appearance, which were only really changed so they wouldn't get muddled up. The functions are identical. MarioKid (Talk) 22:27, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Functions alone isn't enough to consider a split for this article. If that's the case, are you going to merge Invincibility Barrel to this article? Probably not. Though it's a fairly extreme example what I'm using, in this wiki, name and appearance are strong arguments to warrant a split of two items. And I don't see the harm of keeping it either. Perhaps you'd have a stronger case if this item was also called a "Super Star" instead of a "Rainbow Star" and if it kept the trademark eyes, except it's rainbow, but it's not the case here. Ray Trace^(T|C) 22:30, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

So should we split the SMB "Magic Mushroom" from Super Mushroom? After all, it was different colours, was missing its trademark eyes and had a different name... - Reboot (talk) 14:23, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Yeah that's a blatant strawman of my argument with total disregard to any context whatsoever. The Super Mario Bros. Super Mushroom was at a time period where the Super Mario universe was just starting out. We all know that it's the same mushroom as the Super Mushroom today. Your argument also doesn't help that in the Super Mario All-Stars remake, they changed the original sprite to that of the more familiar Super Mushroom, so they were clearly intended for those two items to be the same item. Here, in Super Mario Galaxy, the game plays by different rules. The traditional Stars aren't used for invincibility items, they're used as collectables, in a nod to the original Super Mario 64. Simply because they need to design a different item for an invincibility power-up, they created a distinct item to give Mario invincibility powers. That distinction alone is enough for this article to be warranted a different article than this one. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:31, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Though the functions are the same, these two are clearly different items. I say we should just leave it. There's no real reason to merge them. It'd be useful if we had an article for every different item, instead of trying to keep them all in one article, where it could get confusing. 22:34, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

I'd also like to say if it's really the developer's intention to make this item distinct, I'd argue that this is also a case for keeping it split, as they're really going for a distinct item. Super Mario Galaxy plays by different rules than the traditional 2D Mario platformers (hell, even Super Mario 3D Land and the future Mario games), and having a separate article for its different invincibility power-up as opposed to simply using a regular star demonstrates that. Ray Trace^(T|C) 22:37, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

But it was only changed so it wouldn't be confused with a Power Star. And, besides, the Invincibility Barrel isn't star-shaped, is it? The only difference between the 2 stars is that the Rainbow Star has a different name, and different colour. MarioKid (Talk) 22:49, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

I've already acknowledged that my example is a bit extreme, but saying that "they're both star-shaped" isn't a strong argument, considering that it's an incredibly vague point, as well as the bunch of other star-shaped objects that are split off for different reasons. And you've ignored what I said: different name and appearance is a strong argument for a split. The Rainbow Star doesn't even have the trademark eyes from the star. Ray Trace^(T|C) 22:54, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Should we follow the same logics with the meals from Paper Mario games that we merge recently and split it all again, because they have a different names even if they do the same thing?--^(TALK) 22:55, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Heh, you beat me to it. There are tons of items in RPGs that do the exact same thing, yet have a different appearance just to match the setting or requirements. 22:57, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Those items in your example are even more similar to each other than this item and the Rainbow Star. The Choco Cake and Chocolate Cake can easily be used interchangably to describe the same item, which, mind you, also have virtually the same appearance, down to the color scheme. The same argument could be used for Turtley Leaf and Koopa Leaf, down to the point where they share the same Japanese name. The only thing that's slightly more different than the others is your Shroom Fry example, but these even use like, the same letters, and even so, they probably still share the same name in other languages. Here, the Rainbow Star has a totally different name (yes, the color of it counts), including in different languages. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:47, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

What about Mushroom and Super Mushroom?--^(TALK) 14:55, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

The Mushroom article is a total mess, similar to the Koopa (species) article. It's supposed to be an umbrella article for all mushrooms and it should list the major ones, but it mainly talks about Super Mushrooms which should belong in the Super Mushroom article. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:59, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Baby Luigi: Oh really? Then how come the MP4 Mega Mushroom hasn't been split from the NSMB one? MarioKid (Talk) 23:01, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

FYI, this wiki isn't perfect. 23:03, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

Yeah, it's a mess sometimes. We do go to case-by-case here a bit. Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 23:06, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

So because this wiki isn't perfect we're not gonna bother making better? Alex95, that does sound like what you're saying. MarioKid (Talk) 23:07, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

We try, we really do. But here's the thing, people are fickle. If we DO merge Rainbow Star with the Super Star, there will be people going "Well, why aren't these two different items? They clearly are!" There's no pleasing everyone. We can just do the best we can. 23:08, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

And I'm not saying "no." Just that there would be a LOT of work trying to get everything consistent. But consistent in what way? Do we merge items that have similar effects, but different names? Or do we separate those items so they can have more information on their own article? 23:14, 30 April 2016 (EDT)

But there will also be more people asking "why are these seperate? They shouldn't be!". MarioKid (Talk) 08:02, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Yes, exactly! 11:38, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

@MarioKid: I don't know, the Mega Mushroom from Mario Party probably deserves to be split too. But this is a red herring argument that doesn't belong here. And I don't like how you imply that we're not making this wiki better. We are, that's why we're opposing this proposal. By the way, it doesn't matter if there will be people who disagree, we have people who disagree all the time on censorship, transgenderism, Toad's identity, etc. People will have different views, but the view that has the most support and sound reasoning will always triumph over others. If we're going to please everybody, the wiki will be a mess. _{Also, please fix your signature.}Ray Trace^(T|C) 13:35, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

But opposing the proposal won't make the wiki better, supporting it will. Also, what's wrong with my signature? And, Alex, you should be supporting this proposal if you agree the majority will be happier with the articles merged. MarioKid (Talk) 19:57, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Also, Wildgoosespeeder, I think I'm not experienced enough in this wiki to handle 2 proposals at the same time. Think you could hold the TPP for merging the forms? MarioKid (Talk) 20:00, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Yes, supporting your stance automatically makes the wiki better. Except it doesn't. Why do you think this article got split in the first place? It's because of users who want to improve the wiki, when people like me oppose your proposal it's not "hurr durr I'm going to destroy this wiki because I hate you", it's because your proposal has flaws. As for your sig, your signature should display as {{User:MarioKid/sig}} rather than this coding. Create a subpage for that, and follow these instructions. As for voting, who cares what the majority thinks, vote on what you think is good rather than blindly following everyone else. Ray Trace^(T|C) 22:48, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

How the sig looks in the code doesn't matter. Also, the articles were split because of people who think they should be split because of the tiniest, tiniest, differences. The forms aren't different at all anyway, it's 2 extremely similar objects that change Mario into the exact same form. Once this proposal is done, I wouldn't be suprised at all if you started a TPP for spliting the Super Mushroom from SM64DS from the Mega Mushroom, those 2 are as different as the Rainbow Star and Super Star. If you want to improve the wiki, then stop opposing the proposal. The wiki will altogether be better with the articles merged. MarioKid (Talk) 15:00, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

"How the sig looks in the code doesn't matter". It does. Ray Trace^(T|C) 15:05, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

Why? MarioKid (Talk) 15:31, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

MarioKid, the Mega Mushroom from SM64DS and the one from NSMB are one and the same. It's stated that the one in SM64DS is just an early prototype. Those are the same items, whereas the Rainbow Star and Super Star are not. And yes, the code in sigs matter, apparently. 16:40, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

Yes, the Rainbow Star and Super Star are basically the same item, Rainbow Mario and Invincible Mario also don't deserve different articles, because doing that is basically just having 2 differently named articles both for the same form. MarioKid (Talk) 16:45, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

"Basically" doesn't signify anything. They aren't the same item or form, just the same function. 16:48, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

I don't even know why I said "basically", they are EXACTLY the same thing, the items are stars that make Mario invincible, the forms are rainbow-coloured invincible Marios, simple as that. MarioKid (Talk) 17:10, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

The argument that "both are stars, therefore they are the same" isn't very strong. Mario power-ups are almost always some type of Mushroom, Star, or Flower, and I'd think you'd agree from splitting obviously different power-ups such the Ice Flower and the Fire Flower. You argue that the two may have very similar functions, but to look at it practically: the Rainbow Star is the Galaxy variant of a Super Star. Not an evolution (like Bloober to Blooper), but an actual new item, like how the 1-Up Heart is the Game Boy variant of the 1-Up Mushroom. --Andymii (talk) 17:31, 3 May 2016 (EDT)

For clarity, I think the primary focus of the article talking about the items that grant invincibility in the Mario (franchise) (Super Star and Rainbow Star) should be the fundamental property that they change about Mario/Luigi/Peach/Toad (character)/Rosalina (temporary immunity to enemy damage) and not the secondary effects (1-Ups vs. Star Bits granted, color changes, etc.). --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) ^{(Stats - Contribs)} 18:29, 3 May 2016 (EDT)

Invincibility could probably use an article here, but I feel like Invincible Mario is a specific power-up rather than a general mechanic. The stuff dealing with invincibility in general (like in the Mario Kart series) should be reserved for the general invincibility article. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:10, 5 May 2016 (EDT)

What is going to be more commonly looked up? Why split, repeat ourselves in multiple articles, and make articles more obscure? --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) ^{(Stats - Contribs)} 17:13, 9 May 2016 (EDT)

@Andymii: I wasn't just saying they are stars, they are both stars that make you invincible. There is absolutely no point in them having seperate articles. MarioKid (Talk) 19:11, 5 May 2016 (EDT)

The bottom line is that the Rainbow Star was clearly designed to be a different power-up, NOT an evolution. Think about it. All games before and after the Galaxy games use the Super Star. If we're merging games because they have the same function, then we might as well merge (as I said) the 1-Up Heart with the 1-Up Mushroom or the Flower from Super Mario Land with the Fire Flower. Keeping with our goal as an encyclopedia, we have a page for every individual item, no matter how similar. --Andymii (talk) 12:58, 7 May 2016 (EDT)

The Extra Life power-ups, you got me there. Superball Mario and Fire Mario differ because the Fireball bounces along the ground while the Superball is unaffected by gravity. This next point is a bit of a theoretical stretch but in Switchblack Ruins, a Superball can't be used to light a torch like a Fireball can because of what the projectile is made of. The Super Star and Rainbow Star don't differ other than how they appear in-game. --Wildgoosespeeder (talk) ^{(Stats - Contribs)} 17:13, 9 May 2016 (EDT)

I know it plays the same song but they're not really the same. It's just a coincidence seeing that Galaxy needed an invincibility item among the wide verity of power-ups already in the game. The RPG Gamer (talk) (edits) 21:27, 12 May 2016 (EDT)