Talk:Bomber Bill

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Banzai bills also appeared in the Super Mario Bros. Film, but had a small role. Should this be added? Pokebub (talk) 17:55, 17 April 2013 (EDT)

We're supposed to cover information from the film separate from everything else because its lack of faithfulness to Mario. Unless it's a name or a mention, then don't mention it.

Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 00:02, 18 April 2013 (EDT)

Hotel Mario

So since we decided Hotel Mario's "Toad" was a misidentified 1-up Mushroom, should we do the same for this? This is clearly based off Bullet Bill's original artwork, is at a normal size for Bullet Bill, and essentially acts like the diagonal Bullet Bills from Super Mario World. This seems to be a mistake on the manual writers' part. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:59, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

Maybe you should write a proposal about this. This is Bull's-Eye Banzai all over again. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:39, September 16, 2020 (EDT)

The difference here is that Hotel Mario's "Toad" is also identified as an "Extra Mario Mushroom", which was a name used for 1-Up Mushroom in Super Mario World material. Technically, what's called a Banzai Bill in the manual is still visibly a bit longer than a common Bullet Bill, which also had inconsistent physical characteristics at the time. Besides, some of the game's designs aren't exactly 1:1, such as Spiny or Mecha Koopa. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:42, September 19, 2020 (EDT)

If there's no material contradicting this and saying it was a Bullet Bill, I'd say this is a judgment call we shouldn't really be making. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 19:54, January 17, 2022 (EST)

Name?

So, with Super Mario Party Jamboree coming up, this will have to be moved to Bomber Bill. But then, there's the deal of the Mario Portal always referring to them as Bomber Bill when talking about older games and not Banzai Bill. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 15:00, September 19, 2024 (EDT)

The "Bomber Bill" name will be used in-game? If so, the rename should wait until the game releases per this proposal. Nightwicked Bowser 15:11, September 19, 2024 (EDT)

I was thinking of crossing the Mario Portal bridge later with a proposal. LinkTheLefty (talk) 05:24, September 20, 2024 (EDT)

@Nightwicked Bowser: Yeah, the description of Sunset Standoff says "Bomber Bill". PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:57, September 20, 2024 (EDT)

Also, if there was a proposal for the name, I'd be opposed as the Mario Portal insisting that Banzai Bill's name has always been Bomber Bill contradicts in-game names. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:48, September 22, 2024 (EDT)

The idea I had in mind wouldn't be affecting primary-product names, which I agree takes top priority; it's what to do when there's an absence of it that's questionable, especially if site sources remain higher up than guides... LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:21, September 22, 2024 (EDT)

I'd just go with the "at-the-time no retroactive name changes" principle. Makes it clearer when the name change occurred. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:54, September 22, 2024 (EDT)

I agree, the name came out in the Portal and the movie (and maybe the Boomer Bill of the Lego set wanted to reference it as well), before those I think we should just stick with Banzai Bill, as we simply lack proof that the name change had already happened. In any case, it’s sensible to make the proposal to clarify what to do in these grey areas.—-Mister Wu (talk) 10:05, October 1, 2024 (EDT)

Should the name of the article be changed? I don't know how to do that - Its-A-Me-Austin (talk) 18:18, September 25, 2024 (EDT)

@Its-A-Me-Austin It would have to wait until the game releases. I reverted your contributions because the game hasn't come out yet. This is me, D-B-B! 19:19, September 25, 2024 (EDT)

Lego

Are we sure that the Boomer Bills are these guys? TV Tropes calls it the first appearance of Boomer Bills. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 12:40, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Do they have a reliable source? This is me, D-B-B! 12:57, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

The Japanese name of "Boomer Bill Barrage Expansion Set" uses the usual name for the enemy. Blinker (talk) 13:19, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Not just the Japanese name. The Korean, European French, and German names of the Lego set matches the usual names of the enemy (respectively "매그넘킬러", "Bill Bourrin", and "Riesen-Kugelwilli"), and many languages that used to use the name "Banzai Bill" use the same new name for the Lego set and the Bomber Bill in the movie. English is pretty much the exception here. Jdtendo^(T|C) 14:00, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Sort of. I think there were other exceptions last time I checked the Lego website for names. Italian and Portuguese, at least. So I thought Japanese wasn't the only one to keep the name. Sorry about that. Blinker (talk) 14:06, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

(Both the Lego set and the Italian dub of TSMBM use the name "Pallottolone Bill" though.) Jdtendo^(T|C) 14:20, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Boomer Bill predates the first known utterance of Bomber Bill, right? It's likely either a result of miscommunication or a proposed rename that didn't end up being the final one. Someone, somewhere, had a problem with "banzai", and...that's all she wrote. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:12, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

Bull's-Eye Cat

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Now that this is "Bomber Bill", shouldn't we move Bull's-Eye Banzai and Cat Banzai Bill to "Bull's-Eye Bomber Bill" and "Cat Bomber Bill", respectively? Those were their names in Mario Portal (most recent source), which was also the first appearance of the "Bomber Bill" name. Changing them would allow us to be as consistent with the new name as possible while still sticking to official names. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:37, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

My stance is not until their next appearance. These names not only came years later, but it'll leave out Mad/Gold Banzai Bill and Banzai Bill Cannon anyway. LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:40, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

But since this page is already Bomber Bill, those other variants being inconsistent with that is unavoidable, so I don't see the benefit of also leaving these two variants out when we don't have to. I'd say it's a bit similar to Sledge Bro's Card Chaos, where we bent the naming rules a bit (prioritising British name over American name) for the sake of consistency with the name of another subject, except in this case I feel like this would be consistent with the rules since we generally didn't ignore the Mario Portal names (Bomber Bill having formerly been an exception only because it had appeared under its old name way more frequently and recently than lots of the other enemies, much more than either of these two variants). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:01, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

And we still have done nothing with Parabomb, and both of those variants appeared in SMM2 under the old name. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:07, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

We've done nothing with Parabomb because it's still in the same boat that Banzai Bill used to be in where we were waiting for the new name to be used in a game. Now that Bomber Bill is confirmed, I figured it would logically follow to apply the same name change that originated from the same source to its much less frequently appearing variants, since we're now sure it was an intentional name change and not just a quirk of Portal. Parabomb's Portal name being ignored for now is more the exception than the rule. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:53, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

I don't know if there's an attempt here to make Portal the Mario Bible, but the wiki has been doing just fine without a centralized source like that. These changes have historically been done on a per-game basis, not when there's technically no recent appearance or mention. The games being the primary product means that they, by default, override lower-priority supplemental material even when newer. On a subjective level, Bull's-Eye Bomber Bill looks to me like it could very well be a hasty "quirk of Portal" that should've been Bull's-Eye Bomber. Won't know until the next true appearance! LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:39, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

Y'know, I hate to say it considering all the piping's done, but I didn't realize until after the fact that the Jamboree appearance was only a design cameo and not an actual one. It'd be pretty silly if "Bomber Bill" just turned out to be the キラーマシーン vehicle and then all of it would have to be undone. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:22, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

I find it unlikely that the name also being used in Mario Portal and the movie (and "Banzai Bill" not having been used since before then) is just coincidental. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:53, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

And given there's supposedly a new system coming out soon anyway, Super Mario Maker 3 could be here sooner than you think, and it would presumably rename them then. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:54, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

Better to not base our decisions on baseless speculation. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:01, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

That's not basis for decision. That's merely pointing something relevant out. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:07, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

My two cents is that if this wiki is insisting on keeping original names, if we require the wiki to use Kodeka Maimai or Wonder Haiden rather than extrapolating English names, then all instances of "Banzai" should not be renamed to "Bomber". Mario^-HOHO! (Talk / Stalk) 01:32, October 18, 2024 (EDT)

Those don't have official English names at all, which is why we'd need to extrapolate them. These two variants, meanwhile, got their "Bomber" names from Mario Portal like the main Banzai Bill, so it's not "extrapolating", it's just using the latest English name. Note that I'm not suggesting we rename the Banzai Bill variants that weren't in Portal, as they haven't yet used the new name. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:04, October 18, 2024 (EDT)

Besides, the Mario portal is pulling a George Lucas claiming that Bomber Bills have always been called that even though they've been explicitly called Banzai Bills in-game. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:46, October 20, 2024 (EDT)

We're not arguing whether it was called Bomber Bill in the past, we're arguing what to call it now. Mario Portal applies name changes retroactively, whereas we don't. Not incorrect, just different to the wiki's policies (and it makes sense since Portal would otherwise be inconsistent with itself). And this page already got moved to Bomber Bill anyway. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:16, October 19, 2024 (EDT)

Actually, we have applied retroactively as we call the Clams in Super Mario Galaxy Clampies because that's what they're called on Mario Portal despite me having previously moved the "Clampies"'s names to Clam. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:46, October 20, 2024 (EDT)

I'm unfamiliar with that situation, but whatever the case there, the name change here isn't/wouldn't be applied retroactively per MarioWiki:Naming: "When mentioning subjects whose names have changed overtime, the newest name generally takes greater priority, except in the context of older media where they went by previous names, in which case those are used instead." Read the Bomber Bill article and you'll see it referred to as "Banzai Bill" for most of it. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:38, October 20, 2024 (EDT)