Talk:Crow

Official name: Radonkel ?

In the official German player's guides "Game Boy Spieleberater 2" and "Super Game Boy Spieleberater" this bird is named "Radonkel". But I don't know whether this is also his name in English. Moving, or not? --Grandy02 12:20, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Could somebody answer? The official German name is better than no official name, isn't it? --Grandy02 12:14, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

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The crows from PM2 and the Bird from SML2 are COMPLETLY different characters. - Ultimatetoad

Actually, to be honest, we are an english wiki. Since it is conjectural, we give the article a common name so people can easily find it without too much searching. Wouldn't Crow be much easier to look up than Radonkel?Knife (talk) 15:54, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Yes, of course, but Radonkel is official, Crow isn't. The template tells "If an official name for this material is discovered, please move the conjecturally titled information to the appropriate page.". --Grandy02 04:29, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Fix'd. Full Metal Moogle

Crows in Donkey Kong

The "Crows" in the Game Boy Donkey Kong resemble the bigger Nitpickers in Donkey Kong Jr. and act like them (the stage they appear in is also similar to that respective stage in DKJR). I think the DK "Crow" should be merged with Nitpicker, and Bird (Donkey Kong) as well, and a part-conjecture template should be added then. --Grandy02 11:37, 9 January 2010 (EST)

Considering everything is conjectural anyway, this sounds like a good idea. They do look very similar, and if they have the same behaviour, this is probably their origin, as Snapjaws also make an appearance on the Game Boy. - Cobold (talk · contribs) 13:04, 9 January 2010 (EST)

Luigi's Mansion crows

I'm thinking it might make sense to split the Luigi's Mansion 2 and 3 crows from here. They're enemies confirmed to have a unique name (at least in 3) in Japanese (and Chinese and Korean, predictably), so it seems like a similar situation to stuff like Frog (Yoshi's Story). Blinker (talk) 08:51, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

Is Kāra found in the games themselves? It's not clear to me in which language the script of LM2 was originally written, but LM3's seems to be Japanese. (Ryunosuke Suzuki from Nintendo EPD is credited as the game's writer.) -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:00, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

Kāra is found in-game, in Luigi's Mansion 3's ScareScraper, specifically the objective known in English as "Defeat the Crows!" Blinker (talk) 10:13, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

By the way, while not exactly crow-related, some of E. Gadd's lines in the Japanese version of LM2 confirm the spiders' Japanese (and Korean) name. Considering there was an official Japanese guide for LM2, that's probably where these pests' unsourced names came from. Who knows, maybe the Switch port will help here. Also, regarding LM2's localization, the game was probably originally written in Japanese as well, considering the credits only mention NOA and NOE localization (with the Korean version of the game additionally mentioning Korean and Chinese localization, which is absent from other versions of the credits for some reason) Blinker (talk) 16:58, October 23, 2023 (EDT)

Mario + Rabbids

Is the Mario + Rabbids bird confirmed to be a crow? I haven't played the game, but I ask because if it isn't, then it's just a recolored little bird and should be covered in that page rather than here, I think. Blinker (talk) 17:18, October 4, 2023 (EDT)

I don't think it belongs here either, that info should be moved to the little bird article. Ray Trace^(T|C) 12:05, October 6, 2023 (EDT)

Okay, can I go ahead with that, then? Blinker (talk) 13:56, October 6, 2023 (EDT)

Yep! Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:02, October 6, 2023 (EDT)

Split Luigi's Mansion series crows (and frogs)

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Tuesday, December 24, 2024, 22:47 GMT

This proposal aims to split the crow enemy from Luigi's Mansion 2 and 3 into its own page, titled "Crow (Luigi's Mansion series)". These crows are a recurring enemy with a unique Japanese (and Chinese and Korean) name. While these games are developed by Next Level Games, they appear to have been written in Japanese originally (I think? LM2's English translation is weird enough for me to wonder if it even is a translation or if the two scripts were written in parallel, but probably not), and the other pest enemies have similarly generic English names (mouse, bat...).

Also, if this passes, the Luigi's Mansion 2 frog will be split too. Granted, I haven't managed to find a source for its name yet (there's only so much one can do with YouTube footage and guide preview pages), but sources have already been found for the mouse, spider, crow and Robomb, so chances are the frog's name is also correct. Also, it would just be inconsistent for that to be the only LM series pest to not have its own page.

Proposer: Blinker (talk)
Deadline: January 20, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Blinker (talk) Caw (and ribbit).
2. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per proposal and Blinker's comment.
3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - If we have multiple pages for bats that are given distinct names in Japanese but standard names in English, it only makes sense to follow suit here. Plus, the frogs in Yoshi's Story and several examples of jellyfish.
4. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.

Oppose

#MegaBowser64 (talk) Umm, crows are crows and frogs are frogs. That's not to mention that there is no evidence that LM2 frogs and other frogs were ever even called different names. This is pretty much a pointless proposal, no offence.

1. Waluigi Time (talk) Opposing for the sake of simplicity. The only reason this is being considered is different Japanese names, but other than that... they're just crows and frogs, casual readers would most likely be looking for them here and I don't see a benefit to splitting. I don't think the Yoshi's Story frog should be split either.
2. Koopa con Carne (talk) The Japanese name of the crows in the Luigi's Mansion series is... "crow". Even if other Mario games identify crows as watarigarasu ("ravens") in Japanese, both crows and ravens are nebulous groupings within just one genus of birds, i.e. they have so many intertwined traits in real life that arguing whether a fictional crow-like character was based on whatever real species of corvid is splitting hairs immensely and has no place on a wiki about a video game franchise.
3. DrippingYellow (talk) The game was mainly developed by a Canadian company, with Nintendo staff only being in "Supervisor" roles according to the credits. So unless we find out that the Japanese name is used internally in the files or something (as is the case with Robombs), any talk of the developers "intending" these to be a unique species compared to normal animals just seems like speculation.
4. Dark-Boy-1up (talk) I prefer simplicity for casual viewers over going all nitty gritty on some animals that are just the same but do different things than the others.

Comments

@MegaBowser64 Oh, I'm sorry I didn't explain myself very well in the proposal text. I'll try to do a better job of it. Basically, LM2 and LM3 seem to have been written in Japanese and translated to English, and the crow appear to have unique Japanese (and Chinese and Korean). That makes this pretty similar situation to stuff like this frog. These names are used in game, by the way. And while it doesn't have a unique name in English, that's probably just for consistency with stuff like the mice and bats in LM1 (and later games'), which have their own pages.

However, if the crow is merged, that only leaves the frog without a page of its own. While the Japanese name hasn't been confirmed yet, a bunch of previously unsourced names have been getting confirmed, so it's probably correct.

I hope this explanation was better written and made more sense. Blinker (talk) 13:17, January 9, 2024 (EST)

Ok, I understand now, that makes a little bit more sense. I'll switch my vote over I guess. BOWSER... (talk) 13:24, January 9, 2024 (EST)

@Koopa_con_Carne 'The Japanese name of the crows in the Luigi's Mansion series is... "crow".' You mean the English name? The Japanese name is not. "Kāra" is a pun on the word for crow "karasu", just as "Crowber" is a pun on "crow", that's not the same thing as just being named "crow". Blinker (talk) 13:47, January 9, 2024 (EST)

Going by the explanation in the article, their Japanese name is simply a truncation of "crow". I don't know the language so I'll let someone else explain if that name is meant to be a pun on something else, though my gut says it's intended to be just a middle-ground between karasu ("crow") and a crow's onomatopeia, "kā". The Chinese and Korean names brought up in the proposal also integrate the onomatopeia of a crow. Edit: To pre-empt the argument of "Frog (Yoshi's Story) is split because its Japanese name is also based on onomatopeia", I'd have to agree with WT that keeping that one separate from the common frog is kinda overkill as well. It's identified using something that's inherently tied to real-life frogs, and is an actual frog. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 14:02, January 9, 2024 (EST)

You're not mentioning the English (and so forth) names, but without taking that into account, you could make the same argument to merge Scaredy Rat, so I assume the English name is a big factor of your argument as well. Blinker (talk) 14:34, January 9, 2024 (EST)

Not at all. In fact, I've had plenty of arguments on here that the wiki should prioritize Japanese names if the creator of these names and their described concepts is Japanese, but that's usually just a proxy for the "author's intent" principle I'd like to push. In the currently-discussed fable of the Frog and the Crow, I'm positive their authors are simply giving them cute names, with no statement whatsoever that they're meant to pertain to the Mario brand specifically; Bat (Luigi's Mansion series) is in a similar boat. I'm not sure what point you're making with Scaredy Rat since that's clearly not a generic enemy; the generic mouse species the wiki has an article for has altogether different names in all localizations, Japanese included, so merging that with Scaredy Rat is off the table entirely. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 14:52, January 9, 2024 (EST)