Talk:List of references on the Internet

Should this be added

The very first Homestar Runner cartoon ever made was made on SNES using Mario Paint. The page title for the toon is Super Homestario Bros. (Also, there's TONS for Mario references in H*R than what's listed. (See? Ugozima 02:26, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

No Fan Creations?

I know I'm supposed to be in retirement right now, and I'm not sure if we changed the rules, but I thought we didn't allow any articles on anything fan made. Then how come there's section for Newgrounds and YouTube? I remember deleting those sections back when my computer worked, and no one said anything. How come they're back here again? - Nerdy Guy (I didn't come out of retirement for no reason)

You're right, that content is questionable. I will bring that point up among the admins. - Gabumon^(talk) 09:19, 8 October 2009 (EDT)

The question is how we can establish things as notable or not.--Knife (talk) 14:20, 8 October 2009 (EDT)

er... Acuatly my question was if we should remove these section because they are fanmade unofficial works, which aren't allowed. Nerdy Guy (There's too many sites with fanworks)

Isn't pretty much everything here fan-made?--Knife (talk) 19:42, 8 October 2009 (EDT)

Capitilizing

I remember some time ago a teacher told me all words in a title must be capitalized, exceptt articles and so, we should do that, titles lok better when capitalized--™ The 'Shroom 22:31, 8 October 2009 (EDT)

The Annoying Orange

One episode Mario goes into Bowser's Castle,but instead of finding Bowser it's The Annoying Orange, later Mario is hit with a Koopa Shell(Orange calls it Turtle Shell)and a Bullet Bill(Orange calls it Bullet)also at the end it shows Bowser, Toad and Princess Peach(also they talk about Luigi and Toad). In a recent episode Orange say he wanted a poney that can play Wii.Daneboe the creater of The annoying orange made other videos referencing Mario like Rejected Mortal Kombat Fatalities(Thwompality and Mario Kartality).--Mr. 8-bit 10:44, 13 October 2010 (UTC)and in the dark Mario jumps on mushroom and midget apple was annoyed than Mario wants to get his Frog Suit

Delete

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

don't delete 8-17
I say we delete some of the sections of online references because really, look at it, it's mostly just a bunch of fanon, as in non-official organizations and companies, and that is against policy.

Proposer: Zero777 (talk)
Deadline: February 28, 2011 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Zero777 (talk) I am Zero! Per proposal. Zero signing out.
2. SWFlash (talk) Per Zero.
3. Reddragon19k (talk) Per him! Take it away!!
4. WigglerWhoopin'Warrior135 (talk) Per proposal.
5. Mpeng (talk)Citing that stuff is like citing to a Wikipedia page with no references of its own.
6. Mario Fan 123 (talk) For now, take it down. If the references where from Nintendo-made website or famous websites (like IGN or GameStop) maybe we could make it stay. But nothing for now, per proposal.
7. Fugehog15 (talk) i hope i did this right im kinda new at editing but definitely per what does that mean again
8. Yoshigalaxy2 (talk) There is not a real good reason for them. If we want to go to a website about a game or something, we can type it in. All those references do is clutter up the page, right?

Oppose

1. Glowsquid Never mind the laughable idea that NBC and Google are somehow in the same league as non-notable fan crud not worth mentioning, :you're severely misusing "fanon" here Okay, now, you're misusing "official" horribly. Other than Youtube Poop and maybe that "Stupid Mario Bros." thing, all of the items of the page are backed by recognised, notable organisations. "Official" doesn't mean squat in the context of independant productions that happen to reference something else, anyway.
2. Reversinator (talk) Per all.
3. MrConcreteDonkey (talk) - Per Glowsquid.
4. Marioguy1 (talk) - So what you are trying to tell me is that these REAL websites with REAL references are fake? I don't think this is the proper use of the term "fanon".
5. Supremo78 (talk) Per Marioguy1.
6. Edofenrir (talk) - Even if we disregard whether this is an accurate definition of "fanon" or not, the fact remains that this proposal can only be called vague at best. I'd rather not see this page being reshaped through ambiguity.
7. Walkazo (talk) - A couple YouTube things and whatnot can go, but most of this page is perfectly legitimate: you should have specified what you want to get rid of (as in the sections you want to remove), because right now we have no way of knowing what you're planning (your current definition of fanon is way too vague) and the only logical thing to do is vote oppose, lest you're planning to get rid of valid references.
8. Rise Up Above It (talk) Per all.
9. Stooben Rooben (talk) - Per all.
10. Galaxy_2 (talk) - Per all.
11. MATEOELBACAN (talk) Per all.
12. Mario4Ever (talk) Per all.
13. HenryClaylogan (talk) Per all.
14. Twentytwofiftyseven (talk) Per all.
15. Bop1996 (talk) Per Walkazo's comment.
16. Bowser's luma (talk) Those sites are just as real as the MarioWiki itself. I know when you hate when I compare us to other wikis, but Bulbapedia does that, if not other NIWA wikis. The people who work hard to bring us those fanon sites deserve to be honored with a page..
17. Phoenix (talk) Per all.

Comment

Page was created by IP user? SWFlash

Specify. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Online_references&oldid=1528 It's true. Yoshiwaker

Sorry, meant that as a specific comment towards Zero.
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Reversinator (talk).

In light of both sides' arguments, I think the thing to do is sort through good links and bad links to keep legitimate links and get rid of illegitimate ones. Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996 20:57, 18 February 2011 (EST)

Yes, that's what should be done - and it will be done, but this TPP is going about it the wrong way: it is too vague, and for all we know, perfectly legitimate sections may be removed. It is safer to vote it down and return the power of removing sections to the community as a whole, rather to than the proposer alone. - Walkazo 22:08, 18 February 2011 (EST)

Point taken, now, I think this will be voted down soon. Either that, or we can define terms and start a debate. Easy to see where this one's going. Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996 07:58, 19 February 2011 (EST)

I don't know about Bulbapedia, but I know Zelda Wiki has a news feed from eight or so Zelda fan sites giving news and insight into Zelda on their front page in prominent display. The system works quite well, actually. My point being that there are some decent fan articles with insight and referencing them isn't necessarily a bad thing, given that we keep only good links on there. (Believe it or not, I actually forgot why I typed this comment in the first place, I think it was a mention of other NIWA sites) Geekiness is an end, not a means - Bop1996 07:42, 24 February 2011 (EST)

French Erotic Film

Should I put this here? In it, Colin Mochrie (or Zippy, depending on which version you watch) go through MacTendo's Colin (or Zippy) Mario right after being turned into a Scotsman. Would this be fanon? I wouldn't think so, because it's one of the most popular animutations out there, along with being part of a series (Colin Mochrie vs. Jesus H. Christ), but I just want to be sure. Magikrazy51 (talk)

DrCoolSex

Should i put DrCoolSex Mario parodies and videos in the article? (This include "Super Mario (XXX Parody) - Official Trailer [HD]" and "Jersey Shore: Super Mario Bros") YoshiFan1200 (talk) 18:14, 20 February 2013 (EST)

Also, if i add this article, can i put a "construction" template on it? I need to see every 221 videos. YoshiFan1200 (talk) 22:44, 20 February 2013 (EST)

Also², should i add "Malleo" in the article? YoshiFan1200 (talk) 00:15, 23 February 2013 (EST)

What about creating a section only for memes, having Weege and Malleo? YoshiFan1200 (talk) 00:15, 23 February 2013 (EST)

Or better, what about a page only for memes? Things like Mama Luigi, Weege, Malleo...? Waiting someone to answer me *forever alone* YoshiFan1200 (talk) 00:27, 23 February 2013 (EST)

Alphabetical

Should i rewrite the article to make it in alphabetical order? YoshiFan1200 (talk) 13:21, 24 February 2013 (EST)

Also, should i put the "Epic Rap Battles of History" section in the "Youtube"? YoshiFan1200 (talk) 16:20, 24 February 2013 (EST)

Yes and yes.

Shokora (talk · edits) 16:24, 24 February 2013 (EST)

Weegee's Awful Sprite

Does it warrant a section here? I feel like it's one of those fan things. 173.55.155.46 23:28, 10 March 2013 (EDT)

Alphabetization

Should we alphabetize each section of the references? I think it'll look more organized that way. GalaxyFan (talk) 23:11, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

Yes, we should. There's no "better" way to organizing it, I guess. 173.55.155.46 23:13, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

HTF?!

WHAT DOES HAPPY TREE FRIENDS HAVE TO DO WITH THE MARIO SERIES?! WeHatePoisonMushrooms66 (talk) 19:53, 16 October 2013 (EDT)

1. Please don't write in all-caps. It's disruptive and rude.

2. This is an article about Mario references. Happy Tree Friends contains a Mario reference, therefore we mention it here. Ray Trace^(T|C) 20:00, 16 October 2013 (EDT)

Look on HTF Wiki for the episode "Junk In The Trunk" and the character "Mouse Ka-Boom". 72.251.238.100 15:20, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

What's the Point

I don't get what the point of this page is, it shouldn't be on a wiki, considering it has vulgar material on it. Ztar Power (talk) 18:45, 2 November 2013 (EDT)

Good wikis should refrain from censoring. There was a talk page proposal to remove it, but it failed. In fact, it's in this page.
It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:08, 3 November 2013 (EDT)

RFM767

He already renamed his channel to RFM767vszombies, so change it.

The Limit with YouTube

YouTube is home to millions of videos, but one popular genre is the Let's Play, where someone narrates through their playthough of a game. Naturally, as Mario is a popular series, Mario games are constantly being Let's Played. GameGrumps, Chuggaaconroy, Rooster Teeth, and many more are some of the more famous examples of people who have played Mario games on their channel, and that's not even including the plethora of people who have included a Mario reference somewhere in their videos, like everyone who's done a Minecraft Lucky Block video or people who consistently use Mario avatars like Vanoss (as Luigi) and Mini Ladd (as Mario). With that said, should they be included? I do think that at least Chuggaaconroy and other people who are predominantly Nintendo/Mario-oriented should be mentioned, but beyond that, do we go by video views? Subscriber count? The article already lists a few gamers, like The Diamond Minecart (predominantly Minecraft) and rfm767 (predominantly Plants vs. Zombies, so it seems a bit inconsistent to me. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

Maybe we could just have one general "Let's Play" header under the YouTube section and list the "big names" (i.e. "people with over x subscribers") who routinely do Mario titles and/or make lots of refs to the series as they play through other games, but not give them all separate sections. Also, I feel like it might be worth doing a section for Kaizo Mario World, listing LPs of it; it has a Wikipedia page for crying out loud: that suggests it's impactful enough to be worth acknowledging (and saying there's lots of other fanmade SMW levels too, from regular stuff to copycat hard levels to those musical automatic ones, but not list anything in particular). It's all a pretty slippery slope, but it seems to be more worthwhile to note these sorts of major Mario fandom aspects rather than just sticking to the often-small-time series that make the occasional Mario ref here and there (across all media, really: it's a safe bet that a lot of the live action TV series listed, for example are less well known top most of the wiki's readership than Chuggaaconroy or Kaizo Mario). - Walkazo 15:35, 24 March 2015 (EDT)

I suppose the biggest problem would be with deciding what's going to be our amount of subscribers. Considering Chugga's under a million, we'd probably want our amount to be under that too (or is he the exception?). If we're listing people who have played Kaizo Mario, is it going to be another numbers game? If so, the Automatic Mario levels you mentioned are decently popular as well, even if they don't have a wiki article. On that note, if we're going to cover Kaizo because it has an article on Wikipedia, what about these guys? They're full-fledged fan games in comparison to the fan hack, but they've gotta be notable to some extent if Wikipedia covers them, right? Hello, I'm Time Turner.

Weegee and YouTube Poop

Added a bit more info to the Weegee section, as well as a section on YTP. Personally, I believe they merit a mention here (if not on the main article pages), since both have been "confirmed" by KnowYourMeme and Weegee even got a professionally-made video explaining the meme.--Megatron (talk) 11:02, 5 December 2015 (EST)

Memes section/listing memes here

Being discussed in this forum thread.--Megatron (talk) 11:42, 10 December 2015 (EST)

Smg4 and thelonelygoomba

They can be allowed as mush as Doug walker and James rolfe Arceus (talk) 20:15, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

Death battle

Mario and donkey kong characters appeared on them so they can be allowed. Arceus (talk) 12:51, 24 April 2016 (EDT)

SMG4

Would SMG4's Videos count as a reference. They all include Mario along with many other characters and memes and a majority of the people in these videos share the same exact body features as Mario in Super Mario 64. They also include many other games such as Mario Kart 64 and Paper Mario 1. Even the secondary main character SMG4 is a blue version of Mario. The RPG Gamer (talk) (edits) 18:27, 29 October 2016 (EDT)

If the video uploads purely Mario-related content, then no, not really. Anything regarding fan content of YouTube is (usually) not a reference. If it was, you could say this video I made would be worth noting. 18:33, 29 October 2016 (EDT)

Death Battle and 1 Minute Melee

Mario,Luigi,Peach,Bowser,Yoshi,Wario,Bowser Jr., and Donkey Kong are in the series. 50.164.95.83 13:56, 15 January 2017 (EST)

Luigi's Death Stare T-Shirt available to residents from UK and Ireland who preorder Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

A T-Shirt referencing to Luigi's Death Stare is available to residents from UK and Ireland who preorder Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Should we include it in the Luigi's Death Stare section?

Main Page (it advertises it): https://store.nintendo.co.uk/home.dept?utm_source=mothership&utm_medium=navigation_firstlevel&utm_campaign=home

Product: https://store.nintendo.co.uk/nintendo-switch-game/mario-kart-8-deluxe-t-shirt/11461194.html

Gold Luigi (talk) 14:00, 26 April 2017 (EDT)

Add one of Kurzgesagt's videos

I remember that it references a Pirahana Plant.

--Mariobrosfan120 (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2017 (EDT)

Which video? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 18:30, 3 August 2017 (EDT)

Is this worth adding?

I just want to point out that on Dude Perfect's Gym Stereotypes video one the host depicting “Talkative Timmy” (Tyler) mentions Mario Kart and Rainbow Road, is it worth adding? Thefamman (talk) 17:41, 1 August 2018 (EDT)

Sure. Mario JC 23:01, 1 August 2018 (EDT)

On the introductory paragraph

This question may sound a little indiscreet, but out of curiosity, is there a reason this page states in the lead that references from pornos and such aren't to be included? As far as I know, we don't censor our information, and there's plenty such material notable enough to be covered. Is it because adding a bulk of content from media for adults exceeds some common sense boundaries regarding our younger readerbase that a profane quote from an actor doesn't? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:45, March 29, 2020 (EDT)

Broaden Intro Paragraph

Would it be worth replacing the reference to walkthroughs of Mario games to something like 'media coverage about Mario games, including news articles, walkthroughs or reviews'? At the moment it seems like it could be taken to imply that say, IGN covering a Mario game in a news article is a reference, whereas common sense dictates it isn't.

--Cheat-master30 (talk) 09:16, July 28, 2020 (EDT)

Could we add the history of Mario Sprite Animation?

Honestly, the way it's evolved so much deserves a spot here. From older animations "Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom (Randy Solem)" to newer animations "MarioCraft (Level UP)".
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pixelcraftian (talk).

Fan works Nintendo hasn't acknowledged don't count. 17:38, November 3, 2020 (EST)

Henry Stickmin

Now that all five previous games are available on Steam as The Henry Stickmin Collection, shouldn't the section of the series on this page be relocated to List of Mario references in third-party video games? After all, Completing the Mission is remaster-exclusive. ^(T|C) 12:05, April 5, 2021 (EDT)

I think the Nintendo killing Mario meme should be added to the article.

I think the Nintendo killing Mario meme should be added to the article. 107.146.244.150 17:15, June 20, 2021 (EDT)

It must have a confirmed status on Know Your Meme. Nightwicked Bowser 18:14, June 20, 2021 (EDT)

OK. 107.146.244.150 18:26, June 20, 2021 (EDT)

Move the section on The Henry Stickmin Collection to List of Mario references in third-party video games

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

Move the entire section 4-0-0
This is specifically in regards to the section labeled "Henry Stickmin series" on this article. Since I haven't had a response to the comment above in nearly seven months, I think it's about time I put this into a proposal.

Now that the entire collection is on Steam, I think it's about time we moved all of the information to List of Mario references in third-party video games. I would've done so right away, but I do realize that some references are Flash-exclusive, so some users may hold some reservations of keeping those particular tidbits of info here.

Proposer: Archivist Toadette (talk)
Deadline: November 14, 2021, 23:59 GMT

Move everything over

1. Archivist Toadette (talk) My preferred option.
2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal.
3. RHG1951 (talk) Per proposal.
4. OhoJeeOnFire (talk) Yeah, technically they’re games, not things you can search up. Per all.

Another one

Similar to the “Luigi wins by doing absolutely nothing” meme, there is also a “Peach loses by doing absolutely everything” meme. Should it be added? OhoJeeOnFire (talk)

Wario Dies entry?

I felt that and entry about the Wario Does meme would be a good addition. It'd popular enough to have a Know your Meme page. DukeofDank 10:17, 28 December 2021 (EDT)

It's not a "Confirmed" status, only a "Submission". Mario JC 07:05, December 29, 2021 (EST)

Happy Tree Friends: False Alarm information on third-party games list?

So the only reference to Happy Tree Friends is the False Alarm short. For context, this is actually a video game cutscene uploaded to YouTube by the official Mondo account. For context, it was first seen in the video game Happy Tree Friends: False Alarm where this short was available to watch. It was uploaded later to YouTube for free. By this logic, would we actually move this information to List of Mario references in third-party video games? Wikiboy10 (talk) 14:24, February 5, 2023 (EST)

MSPA Dead links

The Ms Paint Adventures section mentioning Homestuck links to an old version of the Homestuck website. Homestuck is now hosted on https://www.homestuck.com . And because of this, Homestuck's story has different page numbers, because the original site counted pages from comics before Homestuck. Instead of being page 7681, it's now on page 5781, which can be found at https://www.homestuck.com/story/5781
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by OpraZebb (talk).

Fixed, thanks. Mario JC 10:27, April 19, 2023 (EDT)

Princess Peach Hand On Hip Pose (Super Mario Strikers) Meme

[[1]] --SMBros (talk) 19:47, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

🤨 No? It's just a bunch of creepy fanart. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:54, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

🙂 It's not creepy it's hot. --SMBros (talk) 20:07, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

we are not adding stuff to the internet references article just for the male gaze bruh. hot does not equal notable. 20:17, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

I want our wiki kept free from bullshit like this. Ray Trace^(T|C) 20:53, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

Maybe, but to be fair, many people feel uncomfortable with the more provocative fanart of something that's already more provocative and "edgy" than a typical Mario game - hence Mario's use of the word "creepy" - it's not "creepy" in the sense that it's (traditionally) scary, it's "creepy" in the sense that makes them feel uncomfortable - think like how perverts are often called creeps. I'll admit that I hadn't really thought about it when I initially found your query on Peach's talk page, but I do recall that people felt uncomfortable when someone had described Mrs. Shroomlock's appearance in extremely excessive detail. Generally, we try to avoid fan worship on this wiki, and describing this meme might teeter too close to this... especially with that kinda attitude. rend (talk) (edits) 21:29, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

I'm an afab woman so, I'll hopefully put that more into perspective. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:48, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

I'm sorry --SMBros (talk) 21:54, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

I mean, regardless of creepy or not (which it definitively is), it's also. not a meme. it's fanart. characters get fanart. the purpose of this page is not to talk about which characters get fanart. 73.171.104.211 22:12, July 30, 2024 (EDT)

On removing this sentence in the intro

This list does not include fan-made works dedicated to the Super Mario franchise and its games or content with pornography, sex, or other adult-based content that Nintendo has not acknowledged, nor does it include walkthroughs of Super Mario games.

As I explained here, this bit of "policy" was adapted from an edit that came out of nowhere, courtesy of one user with low activity on the wiki and a poor track record. It did not conform to the wiki's anti-censorship stance. It was also pretty much obsolete from the moment it was added: the gory Happy Tree Friends show can be considered "adult-based content", yet its section has hovered on this page for eons, and there's also the coverage on Expand Dong, a series of memes that revolve mostly around inappropriate jokes. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:08, December 26, 2024 (EST), edited 19:17, December 26, 2024 (EST)

@Koopa con Carne Good catch. Super Mario RPG (talk) 19:12, December 26, 2024 (EST)

Regardless of the actual user making the edit, the edit itself does make a good point establishing a clear boundary of what kind of content to include on this page. We had a proposal earlier[2] dealing with this sort of content, only to be canceled, which we assume the measure has failed. If you want to include content of this sort again, you may have another attempt on a proposal, but either way, we should've included this disclaimer earlier. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:50, December 26, 2024 (EST)

The proposal was about content from within explicit media; the section addressed here concerns strictly website figures, which are perfectly innocuous. The boundary that statement set was arbitrary--again, the wiki already takes a plain anti-censorship stance.

TBH, I'd sooner curate the page much, much more stringently before a policy such as the one quoted above was implemented. The Internet is open for many people to upload creations of their own, and the line between what's "notable" or "popular" and not fluctuates heavily or hinges on a lot of criteria. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 19:55, December 26, 2024 (EST)

I'm not sure if I understand the semantics. The content you're adding is a figure from a website on explicit content, which I believe is reasonable to interpret that as a violation of that earlier proposal on explicit content that was made and got canceled (and received mostly oppose votes). That being said, if you don't agree with my interpretation of your edits, you may make a follow-up proposal to further clarify your semantics. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:09, December 26, 2024 (EST)

The proposal sought to "allow the creation of a page for Mario-related references in adult-oriented media which is produced or distributed by notable studios". Some of the opposition argued that no such media can be considered "notable". A series of figures from one of the internet's most widely known and visited websites cannot be judged from either slant just because that site happens to host porn on it.
Regardless, I'm willing to drop the subject in light of the section below. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:16, December 26, 2024 (EST)

This page is a mess

This talk page or section has a conflict or question that needs to be answered. Please try to help and resolve the issue by leaving a comment.

There's tons of content with questionable notoriety in this page. It's particularly egregious with the YouTube section with tons of channels that I don't really think should be listed on this wiki. I do agree that certain content should be limited on this page, including the aforementioned above section of adult sexual content. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 19:56, December 26, 2024 (EST)

We're probably better off limiting it to stuff that Nintendo acknowledged. As I said above, anyone can put things on the Internet and gain some level of notoriety with their uploads, but that doesn't make it inherently coverage-worthy here. Limit page to the PETA fiasco, the memes Nintendo referenced or made statements on, and whatever else of this kind. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:00, December 26, 2024 (EST)

(^saying this as someone who contributed quite a bit to this page) -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:09, December 26, 2024 (EST)

I believe we should remove the YouTube channels per what Koopa Con Carne said and keep it to major websites and memes. The games should go to List of references in third-party video games and a page already exists for stuff Nintendo acknowledged. Rykitu (talk)

Lift censorship of child-unfriendly content

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

vetoed by the administrators
The only inappropriate content maintained on the site is to be material directly from the publisher or from an official third-party publisher, which currently reflects our coverage and is understandable within the scope of referential source material.

This list does not include fan-made works dedicated to the Super Mario franchise and its games or content with pornography, sex, or other adult-based content that Nintendo has not acknowledged [...]

Without seemingly any prior discussion, an edit made by a transient user with a bad track record has gone unchallenged for more than a decade. The hourglass flipped innumerable times over, and this statement, seldom noticed, consolidated itself as an immutable piece of policy. In this proposal, I'll argue why this is problematic by countering a few points, some posed before, others tentative.

• We need to draw a line on what kind of content is described here.
  Correct, and that line should be drawn based on the notability and impact of a given work, as with all other References pages. The nature of the work itself is irrelevant, for two reasons:
  • This site has a long-running and firm stance against censorship. It currently covers instances of bestiality, Luigi bragging about his endowment, a disgruntled actor dropping F-bombs, the n-word (and a derivative), and a picture from a real-life massacre. While some of these are less outrageous than the others, all can be deemed inappropriate, depending on who you ask. Even those F-bombs were surprisingly controversial at one point.
  • The Mario series may generally be family-friendly, but it is so prevalent in pop culture that people inevitably create unpalatable and shocking works in homage of the brand. If the wiki already has a dedicated page for the totality of fan creations that have achieved notoriety on the internet, there's no sense excluding certain works (or pretend to exclude them--see below) just because some do not find them comfortable. Last I checked, this is not a useful mindset to have in building an objective knowledge base. "Think of the children" is a fallacy.
    • As an aside, the page already discusses an unofficially-acknowledged Internet meme that draws humor from a fictional ape's penis. It literally emphasizes its association with other "lewd" memes. What this means is that the disclaimer is already not enforced properly.
• You had a failed proposal to cover references to Mario in porn.
  Yes, but that is irrelevant. Removing this disclaimer is not inherently contrary to that proposal's consensus, because some works may contain crude and lewd material without being porn. Moreover, both that proposal and this disclaimer were used as a tenuous basis for removing info on a a collection of search statistics. Guys... search statistics are not porn! It's like saying that the box office of The Super Mario Bros. Movie is the exact same thing as the movie itself. What makes those statistics genuinely notable and worth covering is that they are drawn from a website consistently ranking among the top 10 or 20 according to Wikipedia. Isn't this exactly the kind of information one may browse this page for? Are we going to censor information just because it is linked to the word "porn"?
• Suppose the disclaimer is lifted. Are we going to cover this?
  No. As I stated at the beginning, the content covered on here should be subject to some standards of notability, written or not. That "meme" was one of myriads of Twitter fads that happen on a monthly basis. It is comparable to Scripulous Fingore in how much is shaped the Internet's gaming zeitgeist--it didn't.
• The quote goes on: "nor does [this list] include walkthroughs of Super Mario games." Why are you not addressing walkthroughs, too?
  I'm leaving this part for another day because I don't know how much a recording of a person playing a game counts as a fan *creation*. I do think playing games in front of an audience is cultural phenomenon in itself and that it should have some manner of coverage on this page, perhaps with a list of notable examples like Vinesauce, DashieGames, and Markiplier. Sometimes, let's-players also offer a performance alongside the recording, like telling jokes or framing it as a live skit. This topic is currently out of the scope of this proposal, though, because I'd rather take it piece-meal this time.

Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk)
Deadline: March 10, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per proposal.

Cont.

Even with this comment, I still struggle to understand why this proposal was vetoed. No reason was given for why the proposed change would be "systematically unwise for this wiki", or why "The only inappropriate content maintained on the site is to be material directly from the publisher or from an official third-party publisher". My arguments in the proposal have not been challenged. I'm not looking to argue or antagonize anyone; I simply request some closure on this, and I shall drop the subject thereafter. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:30, February 24, 2025 (EST)

The staff agree that this wiki is not the place to cover this kind of inappropriate content, and we are asking you to please drop the subject and not attempt to bring it to discussion again. Nightwicked Bowser 19:04, February 24, 2025 (EST)

Processing what happened in the past few hours while I was at work....

Okey dokey. To avoid misunderstandings, the staff agreed that the nature of the content wasn't the reason for the veto but moreso that the content you want to add falls closer into user-generated territory which already is already very restricted to prevent irrelevant information from clogging the page. Additionally, it also seemed too close to the first proposal you've made.[3] We agree with the original principle: that disclaimer was singling out adult work. Since that came off as censoring for the nature of the content alone, it was probably the reason for the original proposal and the follow up that was earlier in this talk page. Please correct me if I'm wrong. We decided to broaden the definition of what shouldn't be covered to make it clear that all works, adult or not, that hosted on sites pertaining to user-generated content are discouraged; the standard for adult work is also self-evidently higher due to the necessary underground nature of the content. We intended to do that earlier but we probably missed the mark on that one, so it's on us for the misunderstanding

As for the other part, with internet culture glorifying the healthcare murderer Luigi Mangione, the stance is murkier but I believe the content is too current-eventsy (and incidental rather than referential) and is subject to change. I don't oppose its inclusion for involving violent criminal behavior, but more that the dust hasn't really settled yet and it's hard to exactly determine the exact relevance of the event. I admit, I'm not a reliable authority on what's notable enough to be here as I'm averse to social media and the self-contained nature of "viral" social media makes it very easy to overstate relevance (like Twitter and Bluesky stuff with their 100k likes or whatever, they seem like they're big posts, but in the grand scheme of things and within a time span, they just barely are a blip on the radar). Like, I've almost never seen (if at all) the Super Mario character being referenced in news media when covering Mangione. That's my stance and just my stance, the other staff may disagree me on this. I hope that's a reasonable take on the subject matter.

And yes, if you believe my questioning of this one's relevance means other content is subject to scrutiny, you'll be correct. Let's try to trim this page of all that excess, shall we? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:35, February 24, 2025 (EST)

Thank you for your lengthy reply! The transparency was much needed; I was getting frustrated with the way I got shot down and given an ultimatum just for trying to bring up the topic (even though you clarified that the touchiness of the subject matter wasn't the reason for the veto, so I have zero idea what the cold attitude was about.)
I appreciate that you chose to reconcile my views on this topic and approach them in good faith. A resolution has been set, and I agree wholeheartedly with this change. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.
Though, I still think a brief history of Mario walkthroughs, highlighting their prevalence and notable examples, may be warranted to have somewhere. I just noticed Walkazo had similar thoughts further up the talk page. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 04:50, February 25, 2025 (EST)

To be honest, the touchiness of the subject did prompt some eyebrows to raise but I believe it's a much stronger argument to maintain that angle of user-generated content vs the content itself. I do recommend in the future to read the room a bit. I know you tried to look past the nature of the thing and went straight to the facts, but the timing wasn't in your favor when you made this proposal after the one in August that users still remembered a bit too well. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:02, February 25, 2025 (EST)

TBH, I was just as uncomfortable and uncertain making these proposals, but I figured I should try it and get over it. "Someone had to address those two subjects one way or another", I thought, "at least to get some opinions". Guess I sullied myself for a while, lol--but my hope is that people will understand that my intention wasn't to be disruptive. However, I'm perfectly fine with the consensus in the former and the aftermath of the latter. No more proposals/discussions on the matter. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 06:43, February 26, 2025 (EST)

Determine what memes should be on the Internet references page

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Monday, March 3, 2025, 17:43 GMT

"This list does not include sites dedicated for hosting user-generated content related to Super Mario and its sister franchises." ~Excerpt from the opener of this article.
"Because memes are highly subjective, please ensure that any entries added to this section are backed up by credible sources, such as having a "Confirmed" status on Know Your Meme at the bare minimum." ~Excerpt from the opener of the Memes section on this article.

Let these set the scene for this proposal. Brace yourselves... This is going to be a long poll, and potentially, the first proposal of two depending on how things pan out here.

So like, on the "List of references on the Internet" article, we have a list of memes, and it is... Very arbitrary what exactly counts as a meme? And what even gets covered on this article? We cannot, for the life of us, think of a cohesive measurement way to interpret the set of memes that are covered on this article, and as it stands it feels like you could add just about anything to it and it would fit in just fine. This, uh, probably shouldn't be the case. Going in the order the memes are listed:

• 0.5x A Presses / Parallel Universes / Scuttlebug Jamboree: For one, this is 3 distinct memes, all from the same origin, sharing a section; nowhere else in the list do we combine memes like this. Even stranger, the textual body mentions two other memes from the same video. so why Parallel Universes and the Scuttlebug Jamboree get the large billing while "building up speed for 12 hours" is prose-only is beyond us. No official acknowledgement from Nintendo.
• Bowsette: This is... Probably the most polarizing entry on here. This thing has it all; it has directly influenced the wiki itself, resulting in an HTML comment being placed on the Super Crown article with the express purpose of "do not add Bowsette to this section, put it here", and it somehow has a Wikipedia article, for goodness sakes. a fact that makes their refusal to make a BFDI article even more baffling, but okay. But, the one thing Bowsette lacks is... Any official acknowledgement from Nintendo beyond a literal "no further comments" statement. Which is maybe the thing to be missing.
• DK Rap: It's... Just the DK Rap. For whatever reason, the brentalfloss parody's "And then there's Chunky! He's dead." is given special billing in the prose. To us, this would feel more fit for being put on the DK Rap article itself as a "Legacy"/"Reception" section, or maybe even on the DK64 article proper... And, in fact, on the article for the DK Rap, the second paragraph in the opener already largely clarifies exactly this. However, there has been official acknowledgement by its composer, Grant Kirkhope.
• Expand Dong: A subgenre of image macros where images have their text spliced together... Or is it? The textual prose suggests this is also about the "I'd shower you with coconut cream pies" line from the DKC cartoon, when that is... An entirely separate meme, and despite what the text suggests, the face in the original Expand Dong meme isn't from either the episode or the VHS box for the cartoon; it's from the DK64 cover. No official acknowledgement from Nintendo.
• Fat Yoshi: Literally just the image of Baby Fat, though this one at least has some merit to it, as Nintendo has actually acknowledged this meme in a tweet promoting the SMRPG remake: https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1767973939781759039
• I've won... but at what cost?: ... This is just a tumblr post. Like, this is straight up just a rather popular tumblr post. No official acknowledgement from Nintendo.
• Luigi's Death Stare: While we don't want to go too far into our opinions in the explanation, we will say that this one, we easily understand its inclusion the most. Nintendo has constantly referenced this meme, to the point where the entire second paragraph--comprised entirely of Nintendo's official acknowledgements--is longer than the first paragraph describing the meme's origin. Luigi's giving a dirty look is practically a part of the Mario Kart branding at this point, like Kirby being angry on western boxart.
• Luigi wins by doing absolutely nothing: Kind of similar to Luigi's Death Stare, being a meme that's been officially acknowledged by Nintendo on multiple occasions, albeit less frequently than Luigis' Death Stare.
• Mama Luigi: Much like the DK Rap, we struggle to see why this should be here without, at the very least, a "Main article:" section, considering the Mama Luigi article itself already has a section on the episode's memetic status. Has received some acknowledgement from the staff of the SMW cartoon.
• New Funky Mode: Yep, it's just the New Funky Mode banner. This received one instance of acknowledgement from Nintendo. Honestly, this one feels very strange to us, but not for the same reasons as Bowsette does; but because, well. The Wiki indulged in this meme, as part of 2018's April Fool's event. This goes entirely unmentioned in the text, which... On the one hand, good, but on the other hand, it would feel a little weird to remove this if it's the entire basis for one of our own April Fool's events, right?
• So Long, Gay Bowser: This is just about a mondegreen. That's about it. No official acknowledgement from Nintendo, nor does the text mention the "Bye, Bi!" joke about the replacement line for whatever reason?
• Wario Dies: This is about an oddly specific genre of meme originating from Tumblr before spreading over to YouTube and other platforms, hinged on Wario's "Oh, my God!" line from the Japanese version of Mario Party 1. No official acknowledgement from Nintendo.
• Weegee: Possibly the oldest meme on this list, being a vectorized redraw of Luigi as he appears in the PC version of Mario is Missing. While definitely ubiquitous in internet culture, and being one of the oldest Mario-related memes, it lacks any acknowledgement from Nintendo.
• Yoshi commits tax fraud: Another tumblr meme, this one having spread far further thanks to SiivaGunner. This has KIND OF received acknowledgement from Nintendo, mentioning Yoshi and fraud in a tweet, but not the tax aspect: https://twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1094295916993892352

In addition to this, there are a few odd exclusions; namely, the Hotel Mario cutscenes (which are very common in YouTube Poop), and the Mario Party DS Anti-Piracy hoax (which currently is only mentioned on the rumors and misconceptions page, but would fit in well here as well, having spawned an entire subgenre of indie horror video), as well as... Well, you'll see in a bit.

So... What's the requirement to be on this list? Simply put, we don't know. We've had a few hypotheses, and they've all fallen flat:

• Must receive official acknowledgement from Nintendo?: Clearly, this is not the case. Bowsette in particular received basically a confirmation that Nintendo would never officially acknowledge it, and that meme hit the point of having genuine ramifications for editing the wiki. Others, like the DK Rap, Mama Luigi, or even the Hotel Mario cutscenes that are markedly absent, have received acknowledgement from people employed by Nintendo that worked on the origins of these memes, but seen no official recognition.
• Must have a Wikipedia article: This would mean removing everything except for Bowsette, and maybe the various YouTube Poop entries. You know, YouTube Poop, that thing they once declared they would never make an article for, and then made an article for. cough.
• Must have a Know Your Meme: This is the only one that checks out for all present entries, and it is actually mentioned in the section's header but we're still iffy on it for two reasons; one, Know Your Meme is already very arbitrary about what it considers a "confirmed" meme, or even gives an article in the first place. When you cover "Online Pornography" listed as a "Culture", but other tumblr memes even more popular than some of the memes mentioned here such as Vanilla Extract are still pending, we raise a some eyebrows. (The site being a subsidiary of Cheezburger, the owners of FAILBlog, I Can Has Cheezburger?, and The Daily What, rather than a proper independent MediaWiki wiki only furthers our skepticism.) Even ignoring our own personal distaste for Know Your Meme, various other items related to Mario that are on Know Your Meme that aren't labelled as "pending", such as Yobby, Automatic Mario, Mario, the Idea vs. Mario, the Man, Mayro, or even "But our princess is in another castle" are all noticably absent from this article. Either we should add all of these, or Know Your Meme isn't actually the determining factor here.

So. Um. What do we do about this. Clearly, a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, because this is a very hodge-podge list of memes and there's no real consensus as to what even belongs here. Rather than try to make some sweeping change first and foremost, we've decided to put everything that is already here to a poll; once those results come in, hopefully we can form a new, cohesive guideline for what should even be in this section based off of the results. This is just for what stays on this specific article and what can be removed from it; whether or not it gets moved elsewhere depends on how exactly the polls pan out, and user consensus from there.

Proposer: Camwoodstock (talk)

0.5x A-Presses

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Even if we figured out the weird mesh of memes tied up in this, no official acknowledgement.

Bowsette

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Begrudgingly. While Nintendo has stated they won't acknowledgement beyond stating they have no comment, this has had an undeniable spread across the internet, and it . Maybe in a few years, when this meme has faded into obscurity, it would be fine to remove it a-la our redirect for "God Slayer Bowser"? As for now, though, the scar is still fresh, we're afraid.

Remove

DK Rap

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Preferably, the mention of the memetic status of this song would be split into its own "Reception"/"Legacy" section on its article. The official acknowledgement from Grant Kirkhope gives it an edge that makes us believe it should be mentioned somewhere, but probably not here.

Expand Dong

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Even if the fact this is two memes in one was resolved, no official acknowledgement.

Fat Yoshi

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Direct, official acknowledgement from Nintendo. Pretty simple.

Remove

i've won... but at what cost?

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) No official acknowledgement from Nintendo, and it's also just a tumblr post. Come back when we decide to add evilmario666.

Mama Luigi

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) More specifically, we'd like to merge what we have here to the "reception" section on Mama Luigi's article, as it seems pretty fit for that.

New Funky Mode

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Could flip-flop on this; it has received official acknowledgement from Nintendo, albeit rather indirectly? However, unlike Yoshi's Tax Fraud, it was an overt instance of the full meme.

Remove

So Long, Gay Bowser

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) No official acknowledgement from Nintendo.

Wario Dies

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) No official acknowledgement from Nintendo.

Weegee

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Could honestly flip-flop on this, but for now, we think this is notable for being one of the oldest Mario-related memes, only really rivaled by YouTube Poops of the CD-i cutscenes.

Remove

Yoshi commits tax fraud

Deadline: March 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Retain

Remove

1. Camwoodstock (talk) While this has received a form of acknowledgement, it feels a little too wishy-washy for us? It amounted to saying a Yoshi player in Smash Ultimate wasn't a fraud, completely eschewing the tax fraud aspect.