MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66: Difference between revisions
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For reference, after looking at page history, the years that had at least three joke proposals were 2018 with exactly three (or [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Pie for Everyone. Pie for EVERYONE. Pie. For. ALL.|four]]?), 2019 with five, 2020 with nine, 2021 with five (including [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Proposals#Remove removals|one]] that already got archived which we'd have to move), and 2024 with ten, so they'd all get their own subpages, and there was also one April Fools' proposal each in 2010 and 2023 (the former got immediately deleted though). Three of the four pie proposals in the main archive were technically April Fools' as well, unsure whether those should count. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:07, April 3, 2024 (EDT) | For reference, after looking at page history, the years that had at least three joke proposals were 2018 with exactly three (or [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Pie for Everyone. Pie for EVERYONE. Pie. For. ALL.|four]]?), 2019 with five, 2020 with nine, 2021 with five (including [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Proposals#Remove removals|one]] that already got archived which we'd have to move), and 2024 with ten, so they'd all get their own subpages, and there was also one April Fools' proposal each in 2010 and 2023 (the former got immediately deleted though). Three of the four pie proposals in the main archive were technically April Fools' as well, unsure whether those should count. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:07, April 3, 2024 (EDT) | ||
: ''You are the unsung hero of this proposal''. We'd say if this passes in its current state, the Pie proposals that weren't tied to the aforementioned years should probably remain on the standard BJAODN Proposals section. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 14:57, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | : ''You are the unsung hero of this proposal''. We'd say if this passes in its current state, the Pie proposals that weren't tied to the aforementioned years should probably remain on the standard BJAODN Proposals section. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 14:57, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | ||
===Merge ''Super Mario Bros.'' (film) subjects with their game counterparts=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-0-0-1-12-0-0-1-5|Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate}} | |||
Currently, several articles exist for characters from ''[[Super Mario Bros. (film)|Super Mario Bros.]]'' (1993) that share names with and are to some extent based on corresponding characters from the source material. While from a certain perspective this makes sense (these characters ''are'' substantially different from the characters they're based on), '''no other non-game-compliant ''Mario'' adaptation is given this treatment'''. [[SMW:CANON]] suggests that all official sources should be treated equally, including in cases when these sources contradict each other. I believe that the 1993 film is a very clear case when this applies, and I propose that some if not all of these articles should be merged with their corresponding game characters. | |||
Now, to this one might suggest: "But the characters from the 1993 film really ''are'' canonically not the same in-universe people as their game counterparts! Doesn't that mean they should be covered separately?" The thing is, that's not how this wiki treats different versions of the same character in any other instance. The article [[Donkey Kong]] covers the ''character'' Donkey Kong, including in games where that character is "canonically" [[Cranky Kong]]. [[Paper Mario (character)]] is only considered a separate character from Mario in the very specific case where the two characters coexist alongside each other. Two works of media portraying different iterations of the same character is seemingly always treated as being ''the'' same character, and the coverage of ''Super Mario Bros.'' (1993) is a strange exception to this. | |||
The relevant articles are: | |||
* Film characters very directly based on specific characters from the source material: | |||
** [[Mario (film character)]] | |||
** [[Luigi (film character)]] | |||
** [[Yoshi (film character)]] | |||
** [[President Koopa]] (to be potentially merged with [[Bowser]]) | |||
** [[King (film character)]] (to be potentially merged with [[Mushroom King]]) | |||
* Film characters based more loosely on specific characters from the source material: | |||
** [[Toad (film character)]] | |||
** [[Princess Daisy (film character)]] | |||
** [[Iggy (film character)]] (to be potentially merged with [[Iggy Koopa]]) | |||
* Film characters based on enemies from the source material: | |||
** [[Spike (film character)]] | |||
** [[Big Bertha (film character)]] | |||
* Film species based on enemies from the source material: | |||
** [[Goomba (film species)]] | |||
** [[Snifit (film species)]] | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|JanMisali}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': <s>April 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to April 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Merge all ''Super Mario Bros.'' (film) subjects with their game counterparts==== | |||
#{{User|JanMisali}} First choice, per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Mario}} Echoing my sentiments in my 2016 proposal[https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Remerge_most_Super_Mario_Bros._film_information] a bit (tho I promise to be less grouchy :O}D). Even with the filmmmaker's contrived notion that live action movie Mario is supposed to be a separate entity from Mario from the Mario Kart series, if you work with that logic backward, they're still variants of each other, basically two different takes of the Mario the Super Brother. This can extend for the other characters. That being said, some of the target pages articles are big enough as they are already but I s'pose that's a different problem irrelevant to the logic of these pages. | |||
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Keeping the coverage on the same article reflects how they're the same thing. Different entity doesn't necessarily mean different subject. If anything, separate articles on the film characters would set an unwelcome precedent for scattering information of like, let's say, ''Super Mario-kun'' or ''Super Mario Bros. Movie'' counterparts of Mario into separate articles, which we'd want to avoid. | |||
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} I think it's best to not be arbitrary with who gets merged or not based on how different they are from their "main" counterpart. Per all. | |||
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Maybe I could work with this kind of continuity-based differentiation in a series with, like, ''any'' sense of continuity, but I don't really think the Mario series has that. | |||
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We think this makes the most sense, and in the name of consistency, what we do to one, we should probably do to all. Besides, it's not like the 1993 movie is even the first time that a different entity has used the name of a pre-existing entity--though unlike things like [[Galoomba|G(al)oombas]], the 1993 movie incarnations stand alone, with only things like gags in mangas deciding that the movie incarnations are different from the original characters (such as what happened to [[Yoshi (film character)|Yoshi]])--and even in those cases, it's pretty clearly not part of some deep lore for the film itself. <small>We hope this rationale makes sense, anyways? As we write this we're a tad tired, so if you need clarification, just ask politely.</small> | |||
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - I forgot I hadn't voted. I prefer this option. I'd be fine with the other popular option (for now), aside from questioning why Toad is part of the exclusions. | |||
====Merge most of these, but keep Spike and Big Bertha separate from the enemies they're based on==== | |||
====Merge most of these, but keep Goomba and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based on==== | |||
====Merge most of these, but keep Spike, Big Bertha, Goomba, and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based on==== | |||
#{{User|JanMisali}} Third choice, per proposal. | |||
====Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate==== | |||
#{{User|JanMisali}} Second choice, per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Hewer}} I agree with merging the more obviously game-inspired characters like Mario and Luigi where the split feels more like a vestige of the wiki's former obsession with its made-up idea of canon, but merging characters like Iggy and Spike where pretty much the only thing in common is the name with (to my knowledge) little indication they're even based on the game characters doesn't feel right. EDIT: I agree with DrippingYellow's comment about how the King and Mushroom King shouldn't be merged though, since their only similarity is that they're both kings, but that can be dealt with in another proposal. | |||
#{{User|Arend}} I'm most hesitant about merging Daisy. As you know, Daisy is pretty much the movie's equivalent of Princess Toadstool, and in a previous concept, was even named Hildy/Heidi/whichever of the two it was. Had that name not been changed to Daisy, many would obviously argue to merge it with [[Princess Peach]] instead. I would also say that it's pretty bizarre to have one of the two bumbling henchmen be based on a Koopaling while the other is based on a random enemy, instead of ''both'' being based on a Koopaling (we got ''seven'' of those guys; they couldn't have called the other henchman "Larry"?); not to mention that this version of Toad was once called Lemmy (''another'' Koopaling). | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} Leaning more on this idea. There are the obvious ones, but I think the ones holding me back from an all out merge are Spike and Big Bertha, as they seem way different compared to what they are supposedly based off of (also the Iggy one feels a bit off to merge with the Koopaling). | |||
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Per all | |||
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Secondary choice; per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} I think I'd rather go with this option, since those particular subjects have too little overlap with their game "counterparts". Besides, how would a carnivorous freshwater fish share clear commonality with an...uncomfortably attractive humanoid being? | |||
#{{User|OmegaRuby}} Per all, Archivist Toadette especially. | |||
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} Per all of yall (collectively) | |||
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} Say what you will about trying not to separate variations of characters, even in media with notable differences from the "main canon" (i.e. ''[[Super Mario Bros. Super Show|Super Show]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!|Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen]]''), these characters still have recognizable attributes. Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi certainly fit the bill of mere variations, but others I'm a little more icky on, with this lining up most easily with my opinions. With the film being designed to be a deliberate departure from other Mario material, it makes sense not to merge film characters unless they have significantly overlapping roles with their game counterparts. (e.g. Goombas are still the front-line weaklings, Yoshi is still held captive by Koopa and has a long tongue...)<br>The only merges I entirely disagree with here are the Snifits (who don't shoot bullets at all, and, if I had to guess, had their name chosen just because they "sniff 'it' (the garbage)"). As well as the King because... umm... he's not the king of the mushroom kingdom, nor Peach's father? I don't even get this connection to be honest. Nevertheless, I'm willing to wait it out to change those if this passes, because something something two-party system... | |||
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Mario and Luigi have some similarities with their video game counterparts, but Toad, Iggy and Spike have nothing in common with their namesake, Big Bertha is way too different to the fish she is based on, and Daisy seems more like "Princess Toadstool but we called her Daisy because "Toadstool" is not a given name". | |||
#{{User|Biggestman}} I agree with all above points, however if there was an option to also keep President Koopa split I would vote for that, he's literally just not the same guy in the movie in any way whatsoever. | |||
====Only merge Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, President Koopa/Bowser, and King; keep the rest separate==== | |||
====Merge Goomba and Snifit, but keep the characters separate==== | |||
====Other==== | |||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Considering all of the "History of X" articles that have been written, why don't we ''keep'' the separate articles, but ''rebrand'' them as "History of X in ''Super Mario Bros.'' (1993)"? Maybe down the road, if Illumination gets enough content, we'll think about if we want to do "History of X in film" or "History of X in cartoons/television" or something. This'll satisfy the proposal's condition while lightening the load. Plus, this'll save the headache of merging the character infoboxes (unless the idea was to keep them intact in film sections). | |||
====Do nothing==== | |||
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} While I completely understand and agree with [[MarioWiki:Canonicity]] and the points stated above, I just don't want these to be merged at all. All of the characters mentioned are very different from their game counterparts, and many characters that are non-human in the video games are at least partially human in the movie (like Bowser (video game character) and King Koopa (movie "counterpart"). This is enough for me to not want to merge any of the pages. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per FOR2007. | |||
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} The 1993 movie was an awful adaptation that changed too much. I would want [[Bob Hoskins]]' Mario to remain separate from the the games' Mario. President Koopa is clearly very different from Bowser. | |||
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I'm still okay with this, too. I know ''we'' don't make canonical judgments, but when ''creatives'' do on the rare occasion, that's where I think we should stand. After all, "This Ain't No Game." Per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Oppose 8|myself]] in the old proposal. | |||
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per LinkTheLefty. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Haven't decided on an option but I will at least link [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/18#Different Version Characters|the original proposal that split them]]. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 19:18, April 4, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:It's interesting to read through this old discussion, especially how much the focus at the time seems to have been on specifically Daisy. Nobody in this whole proposal ''or'' the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/17#Peach/Daisy in Film|"Peach/Daisy in Film" proposal]] before it ever suggests the idea of giving specifically Mario (film character) a separate article! I wonder how that happened. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:05, April 4, 2024 (EDT) | |||
https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Remerge_most_Super_Mario_Bros._film_information <br>Here is my attempt that ended up being vetoed. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:01, April 4, 2024 (EDT) | |||
Did this need to be one huge proposal? The fact that there are ''seven'' options as well as an "Other" option (which, how would that even work if it got the most votes?) suggests to me that the ''Mario Bros.'' movie live-action subjects have far too much range in how close they are to their OG counterparts for this to be resolved in one seven-day proposal. For instance, I mostly agree with the fifth option, except for the inclusion of the [[King (film character)|King]] among the merged characters (considering that unlike the [[Mushroom King]], he is neither the king of the Mushroom Kingdom nor [[Princess Peach|Peach's]] father (he's ''[[Princess Daisy (film character)|Daisy's]]'' father)).<br>If we were to add options for every little disagreement with the proposal author's reasoning in this particular instance, it would become a nightmare to try and find an appropriate option to vote on. I'd suggest splitting the proposal based on character roles (e.g. one for main characters, one for minor characters like Yoshi, one for creatures like Goombas, and one for references-in-name-only like [[Toad (film character)|Toad]], [[Big Bertha (film character)|Big Bertha]], etc.) [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 13:36, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:I would argue that range from source material isn't much of a factor in so much as they're variants of a source character and my understanding is that we do sometimes merge whack variants of the same entity, such as Skeeters. I'd go for the straightforward option because I don't see much merit debating within gradience of who gets a separate article or not. {{User:Mario/sig}} 13:56, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::I'd still argue that there's a point where it's not so much a variant as it is an entirely new character that only uses an existing character name as a callback. The film's plot provides a framework for this, considering it is loosely based off of the ''Mario'' games' story: Princess Daisy is the damsel-in-distress, Koopa is the antagonist who kidnaps her, Goombas are his lackeys, Yoshi is a dinosaur with a long tongue who is also held captive by Koopa, and Mario and Luigi are the heroes. Those are definitely a variation of standard Mario features.<br>However, then there are characters like Big Bertha who shares no similarities with her namesake other than being... well, big. <small>Not to mention she should probably stay split anyway considering normal Big Bertha is an enemy species, while ''this'' Big Bertha is a unique character. Spike at the very least should also be split for similar reasons.</small> Big Bertha's connection to her original inspiration would at least be more plausible if, for example, she was a marine biologist or had a scene where she saved Mario from drowning or something. I'm a little more inclined to merge Toad, since he gives exposition about the fungus (which would line up with the original character's appearance), but then again, [[:File:SMBFilmCardH1.png|he was originally named Lemmy]], so the connection there may not have been intentional. And as for the King vs. the Mushroom King, the Mushroom King article is a catch-all for anytime the king of the Mushroom Kingdom. To include a King in that article who exists in a continuity where there is no Mushroom Kingdom seems a little odd. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 14:43, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:::To be fair, we can't think of how else to showcase the granularity of the options than the deluge of choices; short of something like a checkbox-esque "vote for this one if you think it should be split!" proposal, which is entirely unprecedented and we have no real way of handling. Is it clunky? Yes. But it's either this, a bunch of standalone proposals (which could get ''even more'' messy), or some entirely new form of proposal gets invented ''just'' to handle this. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 14:57, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::::I don't really see how the standalone option would make things messier. Is it that hard to keep track of multiple proposals? The choice would be between that or a list of options that is either unreadably long or doesn't have an option that aligns with your opinion due to something like an assumption by the author. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 21:29, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
By the by, what's this version of Spike called in the Japanese localization of the film? I think that's important to ask because we do in fact have [[Foreman Spike|''another'' Spike]] in this franchise, one who is decidedly NOT called "Gabon" in Japanese, ever. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:58, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
On the contrary, the thought has crossed my mind to go in the other direction and have something done with the ''Paper Mario'' universe and characters, but it'd probably be controversial. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:21, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:Strongly disagree, [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Deal with the duplicate Paper subjects in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam|the arguments against all hold]]. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:51, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::I would oppose covering all Paper Mario appearances in the Paper character articles and I would also oppose merging them all with their regular counterparts. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 17:25, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:::You see, while the 1993 Mario movie characters are drastically different from their mainline game counterparts (or namesakes), the same can''not'' be said about the Paper Mario characters, which stay relatively close to the source material in comparison. Sure, the first three games gave most enemies a couple of design quirks that stand out from the mainline games, but they are still recognizable as those enemies.<br>Same deal with the 2023 Mario movie counterparts; they have some differences, but are still clear and recognizable as the same characters. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:41, April 5, 2024 (EDT) | |||
::::I never really nailed down how it would work, but wouldn't be as full splits. Maybe something along the lines of how we now have "History" articles split from their sections. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:45, April 12, 2024 (EDT) | |||
Regarding Iggy, unused scripts on the SMBMovieArchive website show that originally, there were other Koopaling-named characters (like Morton and Wendy as announcers), showing Iggy was an intentional reference. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 06:31, April 8, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:But still, being named after another character doesn't necessarily make them the same character given how otherwise completely different they are, especially considering what's already been brought up about how characters like Toad were originally named differently. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:13, April 8, 2024 (EDT) | |||
This needs looked into some more as I can't remember for certain, but I seem to recall the script referring to the generic Dinohattan police officers as Koopa Troopas (a variation of that name was given to Goombas in earlier development). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:59, April 9, 2024 (EDT) | |||
@Doc von Schmeltwick: As Arend mentioned, the character that ended up being "Toad" was originally called Lemmy, which to me feels like evidence that the inspiration doesn't extend beyond the name, and merging based on that alone would be a strange choice. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:45, April 10, 2024 (EDT) | |||
:Aside from being an ally. The "good Goomba" character at that point in the script rewrites was a separate character named "Hark," anyway, and there were other associated "freedom fighter"-type characters in addition to the one who is Toad in the final. [https://www.smbmovie.com/SMBArchive/preproduction/script.htm Also, he was called "Toad" first], [https://www.smbmovie.com/SMBArchive/preproduction/script/13_Disney_Synopsis.htm with "Lemmy" being used for a single draft in mid-production]. In the first "Wizard of Oz"-style draft, he had basically the same role Toad would be given in the more recent movie, but drifted slowly from that as rewrites occured. He is still, therefore, primarily derived from the games' Toad. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:14, April 10, 2024 (EDT) | |||
@LinkTheLefty: Considering the "History of <x character> in <the cartoons they appear in>" articles are still waiting for their cigarette and tinder box before their execution via categorization <s>as much as we deeply, deeply regret that proposal</s>, we don't exactly see a "History of <x character> in Just The 1993 Movie" turning out well, unfortunately. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 10:46, April 12, 2024 (EDT) | |||
{{Quote2|I believe rule 9 calls for an extension if I'm not mistaken.|LinkTheLefty|3=[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals&diff=next&oldid=4182252 this revision]}} | |||
Well, ''before'' you extended the proposal, there were 19 voting users in total, if I'm not mistaken, and according to rule 9, more than half of the total amount of voters (in this case, more than 9.5 voters) must show up in a single voting option. If I get that right, that means at least 1 voting option must have more than 9.5 votes... and uh, the "Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate" section has ''10'' votes, meaning that must have won.<br>''However'', you decided to vote too while extending the proposal, meaning that there's now 20 voting users, and the "Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate" section now requires ''more'' than 10 votes... thus, 11.<br>Since you decided to cast in votes ''alongside'' extending the proposal, when it should have enough results to not require an extension, I'm honestly not sure if we should end the proposal now and remove subsequent votes and comments from prior the extension, or keep the extension for another week. {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:00, April 12, 2024 (EDT) |
Revision as of 03:56, April 21, 2024
Decide what to move Super Mario Galaxy 2 worlds toTemplate:ProposalOutcome The worlds in Super Mario Galaxy 2 have names, but each article for the six main worlds is named "World <#> (Super Mario Galaxy 2)" while the article for the special world is called "World S". The good news is I was wondering if there's a possibility to decide what to rename the worlds. There are four options to choose from:
Proposer: GuntherBB (talk) Option 1Option 2Option 3Option 4
CommentsCreate a {{visible anchor}} templateTemplate:ProposalOutcome I've come up with an idea for a sub-template for the {{anchor}} template. A {{visible anchor}} retains its behavior like {{anchor}}, with the only difference being that the first parameter will be visible text on the page. You can go here to read the documentation on Wikipedia. Do you have any thoughts that there's a possibility create the {{visible anchor}} template? Proposer: GuntherBB (talk) SupportOppose
CommentsStop referring to Bowser as "King Koopa" in Japanese mediaTemplate:ProposalOutcome In articles about Japanese Mario media, we typically refer to Bowser as "King Koopa" for some reason. I think that this naming convention is pointless and we should call Bowser by his actual English name. One may argue that "King Koopa" is Bowser's Japanese name and therefore he should be named as such. Actually, Bowser's Japanese name is Kuppa (officially romanized as "Koopa") or Daimaō Kuppa (literally "Great Demon King Koopa"), but he is seldom called "King Koopa" verbatim in Japanese media. Most importantly, when referring to characters or species in articles about Japanese-only media, we typically use the usual English name instead of the Japanese name: "Goomba" instead of Kuribō, "Koopa Troopa" instead of Nokonoko, "Toad" instead of Kinopio, and so on. There is no reason why Bowser should be an exception. One may also argue that the names "Koopa" and "King Koopa" have been used in some English-language Mario media (notably the DIC series). However, the name "Bowser" is overwhelmingly more widespread and was already attested in the original Super Mario Bros. instruction booklet. I hope we can agree that The Super Mario Bros. Super Show is not the highest-priority naming source. Lastly, this "King Koopa" naming convention is not even consistent on the Wiki because many articles about Japanese-only mangas refer to Bowser as "Bowser" rather than "King Koopa". If this proposal passes, mentions of Bowser as "King Koopa" or simply "Koopa" will be replaced with "Bowser" in articles about Japanese media, including:
This renaming will not apply to English-language media in which Bowser is actually called "King Koopa". Proposer: Jdtendo (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsWhat about referring to Princess Peach by that name in early Japanese media? If this passes, it would seem more consistent to change those to "Princess Toadstool" since that was her English name at the time. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:43, March 20, 2024 (EDT)
Broaden the scope of the {{unreferenced}} templateTemplate:ProposalOutcome
Like everyone in the Super Mario Wiki said, "We are not Wikipedia." I humbly ask if there's a possibility to broaden the scope of the The template currently reads as follows: <div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#FC5;border:1px solid #f22"> This {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} '''does not [[MarioWiki:Citations|cite any sources]]'''. Please help {{plain link|1=[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}]}} by [[MarioWiki:Citations#How to add references|adding citations from reliable sources]]. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. </div> This article does not cite any sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations from reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. However, once the proposal passes, the template will read as follows: <div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#FC5;border:1px solid #f22"> It has been requested that at least one '''[[MarioWiki:Citations#How to add references|citation from a reliable source]]''' be added to this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}.<br><small>This {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} should not cite any unsourced material. See the [[MarioWiki:Citations|citation policy]] for more information.</small> </div> It has been requested that at least one citation from a reliable source be added to this article. That way, the Proposer: GuntherBB (talk) SupportOppose
Commentsthis might just be one of the most difficult to read proposals i have seen on this site, its a real struggle to look at. is there a chance of tidying it up dramatically - YoYo (Talk) 13:54, March 29, 2024 (EDT)
This is not related to the proposal itself but I see that you sent the same talk page message to so many users at once, including myself about this proposal. I'm not super skilled with template codes and such, so I won't vote in it. I just thought I'd mention the message. Sparks (talk) 21:52, March 30, 2024 (EDT) @Nintendo101 I think I know why broadening the scope would be an improvement. It's because of what Wayoshi said to A Link to the Past: "We are not Wikipedia." A bit of clarification on our vote: Just because we are not Wikipedia doesn't mean we have to do things differently from how Wikipedia does them. While we have our petty, personal beef with Wikipedia (mostly about their comically dated "notability" guidelines), they aren't always wrong, and this is one such case where we feel they nailed the Wiki design on the head; for all intents and purposes, {{ref needed}} is better than any of these templates to us. It's more precise, it's more concise, and most importantly, it's what people--both on this wiki and from other wikis--know best. (This is also why we're not updating our vote, though we do appreciate the proposal being made easier to read.) ~Camwoodstock (talk) 23:28, March 30, 2024 (EDT) Template:ProposalOutcome This proposal aims to ban the use of images without captions, both in text and galleries. It's for a similar reason as why one should add a reason when adding a maintenance template, and without it, unfamiliar readers may ask themselves, "What's the subject? What does it do? What's it trying to illustrate?" I looked around for an example, and I'll use the Icicle page. Quite a few sections add sprites without captioning them. While the section heading alone would be enough to suggest that it's a sprite from the game, additional context could be at risk of being left out. Mario Bros. has been re-released many times, so when I see the icicle sprite, I may ask myself, "What version is it from? The arcade? The NES? The Game Boy Advance?" While it's true that sprites can't easily display captions, due to being small images, there could be a way to make it easier to caption them. This problem also applies to infoboxes. On the Itsunomanika Heihō page, what's going on in the infobox image? There's so many things in it, and it doesn't make clear who Itsunomanika Heihō is, which is the Shy Guy. On a bit of a side note, too many articles have images that feel added in the text just for the sake of adding images, and captionless images seem among them. Why does the Lubba page have three images in the Super Mario Galaxy 2 section? Are they essential enough to be included or could they just be addendums to a gallery? Two of the images are just Lubba saying a quote, something that's hardly as much of interest as, let's say, Mario's first meeting with Lubba. Should this proposal pass, perhaps a separate proposal, or a precedent, could be set for tightening the use of images in article sections unless they are plot-essential, show a major difference between games, or for historical context, such as when something first appeared. Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsPlease tell me how the image to the left is ideal. Because that's what this proposal's trying for. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:52, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
I want to revisit this proposal to ask about the Icicle example... you say that a lack of caption would result in additional context being left out, to which I ask.... what additional context is there to a sprite of an icicle? Adding captions would simply make it extremely repetitive. "An icicle in Super Mario Bros 3" ... "An icicle in Super Mario World" ... "An icicle in..." and so on. - YoYo (Talk) 10:27, March 29, 2024 (EDT)
Template:ProposalOutcome Over time, this wiki has, with good reason, significantly reduced its coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series. However, as has been the subject of multiple other proposals, there are a lot of vestigial remnants left over from when Smash still received full coverage. One of the most prominent and blatant cases of this is found in the Super Smash Bros. navigational templates, namely Template:SSB, Template:SSB moves, Template:SSBM, Template:SSBM moves, Template:SSB4, Template:SSB4 moves, Template:SSBU, and Template:SSBU moves. Each of these templates contains links to subjects that no longer have dedicated articles, and take the reader to a subsection of a list article instead. The "move" templates are especially rough, since the majority of Smash Bros. moves are no longer even covered on the articles that these links redirect to. I propose that these navigational templates should be significantly trimmed down, much like the ongoing efforts to clean up the various "series" categories. Furthermore, without the unnecessary links to subjects that no longer are within this wiki's scope, having moves in a separate template from the main navigational template for those games may no longer be necessary, so it might also make sense to remove the "move" templates entirely, moving the links to Super Mario-related Smash Bros. moves to the main Smash navigational templates. Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Do nothingCommentsYou forgot the navigational templates for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Template:SSBB and Template:SSBB moves. SolemnStormcloud (talk) 12:11, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
Preserve April Fools' Proposals in BJAODNTemplate:ProposalOutcome First of all, no, this isn't a delayed April Fool's joke--we are being 100% sincere about this proposal! You know it because we waited until after we had squared away the April Fool's proposals to actually bring this up formally. Secondly, this has been discussed before, not once but twice, and the consensus at the time was basically "it's pointless and not that funny, so why bother?" ...As you can imagine, we're not a fan of either of these stances, so we have a brief overview of our counter-arguments to these statements.
Especially in the wake of the effective renaissance of April Fool's proposals we had this year (no doubt due in part to a rather-timely proposal about April Fool's proposals, albeit moreso about denoting them as such pre-emptively), we feel it pertinent to possibly figure something out for this sooner, rather than later, while the concept's still fresh in everyone's mind. To this end, we've come up with three ideas:
Proposer: Camwoodstock (talk) Support, with additional subpages
Support, all to the same subpage
Do nothingCommentsIs there any chance that the April Fools' proposals be merged with the April Fools' prank of that year? For example, all of the 2024 April Fools' proposals can be merged with MarioWiki:BJAODN/April Fool's 2024. Sparks (talk) 19:47, April 2, 2024 (EDT)
For reference, after looking at page history, the years that had at least three joke proposals were 2018 with exactly three (or four?), 2019 with five, 2020 with nine, 2021 with five (including one that already got archived which we'd have to move), and 2024 with ten, so they'd all get their own subpages, and there was also one April Fools' proposal each in 2010 and 2023 (the former got immediately deleted though). Three of the four pie proposals in the main archive were technically April Fools' as well, unsure whether those should count. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:07, April 3, 2024 (EDT)
Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterpartsTemplate:ProposalOutcome Currently, several articles exist for characters from Super Mario Bros. (1993) that share names with and are to some extent based on corresponding characters from the source material. While from a certain perspective this makes sense (these characters are substantially different from the characters they're based on), no other non-game-compliant Mario adaptation is given this treatment. SMW:CANON suggests that all official sources should be treated equally, including in cases when these sources contradict each other. I believe that the 1993 film is a very clear case when this applies, and I propose that some if not all of these articles should be merged with their corresponding game characters. Now, to this one might suggest: "But the characters from the 1993 film really are canonically not the same in-universe people as their game counterparts! Doesn't that mean they should be covered separately?" The thing is, that's not how this wiki treats different versions of the same character in any other instance. The article Donkey Kong covers the character Donkey Kong, including in games where that character is "canonically" Cranky Kong. Paper Mario (character) is only considered a separate character from Mario in the very specific case where the two characters coexist alongside each other. Two works of media portraying different iterations of the same character is seemingly always treated as being the same character, and the coverage of Super Mario Bros. (1993) is a strange exception to this. The relevant articles are:
Proposer: JanMisali (talk) Merge all Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts
Merge most of these, but keep Spike and Big Bertha separate from the enemies they're based onMerge most of these, but keep Goomba and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based onMerge most of these, but keep Spike, Big Bertha, Goomba, and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based onMerge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate
Only merge Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, President Koopa/Bowser, and King; keep the rest separateMerge Goomba and Snifit, but keep the characters separateOther
Do nothing
CommentsHaven't decided on an option but I will at least link the original proposal that split them. Nightwicked Bowser 19:18, April 4, 2024 (EDT)
https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Remerge_most_Super_Mario_Bros._film_information Did this need to be one huge proposal? The fact that there are seven options as well as an "Other" option (which, how would that even work if it got the most votes?) suggests to me that the Mario Bros. movie live-action subjects have far too much range in how close they are to their OG counterparts for this to be resolved in one seven-day proposal. For instance, I mostly agree with the fifth option, except for the inclusion of the King among the merged characters (considering that unlike the Mushroom King, he is neither the king of the Mushroom Kingdom nor Peach's father (he's Daisy's father)).
By the by, what's this version of Spike called in the Japanese localization of the film? I think that's important to ask because we do in fact have another Spike in this franchise, one who is decidedly NOT called "Gabon" in Japanese, ever. rend (talk) (edits) 15:58, April 5, 2024 (EDT) On the contrary, the thought has crossed my mind to go in the other direction and have something done with the Paper Mario universe and characters, but it'd probably be controversial. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:21, April 5, 2024 (EDT)
Regarding Iggy, unused scripts on the SMBMovieArchive website show that originally, there were other Koopaling-named characters (like Morton and Wendy as announcers), showing Iggy was an intentional reference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:31, April 8, 2024 (EDT)
This needs looked into some more as I can't remember for certain, but I seem to recall the script referring to the generic Dinohattan police officers as Koopa Troopas (a variation of that name was given to Goombas in earlier development). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:59, April 9, 2024 (EDT) @Doc von Schmeltwick: As Arend mentioned, the character that ended up being "Toad" was originally called Lemmy, which to me feels like evidence that the inspiration doesn't extend beyond the name, and merging based on that alone would be a strange choice. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:45, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
@LinkTheLefty: Considering the "History of <x character> in <the cartoons they appear in>" articles are still waiting for their cigarette and tinder box before their execution via categorization
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