MarioWiki:Proposals

Current time: Sunday, January 26th, 05:16 GMT

Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken. Voting periods last for two weeks, but can close early or be extended (see below). Any autoconfirmed user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so. All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options. For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

If you would like to get feedback on an idea before formally proposing it here, you may do so on the proposals talk. For talk page proposals, you can discuss the changes on the talk page itself before creating the TPP there.

How to

If someone has an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with other users, who will then vote on whether or not they think the idea should be implemented. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.

Rules

1. Only autoconfirmed users may create or vote on proposals. Proposals can be created by one user or co-authored by two users.
2. Anyone is free to comment on proposals (provided that the page's protection level allows them to edit).
3. Proposals conclude at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
   • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
4. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
5. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is acceptable (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
6. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the wiki staff.
   • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
7. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(blocked)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
8. Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago.
9. If one week before a proposal's initial deadline, the first place option is ahead of the second place option by eight or more votes and the first place option has at least 80% approval, then the proposal concludes early. Wiki staff may tag a proposal with "Do not close early" at any time to prevent an early close, if needed.
   • Tag the proposal with {{early notice}} if it is on track for an early close. Use {{proposal check|early=yes}} to perform the check.
10. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
11. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
12. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use {{proposal check}} to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
13. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and cannot be re-proposed until at least four weeks after the last deadline.
14. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
15. After a proposal passes, it is added to the appropriate list of "unimplemented proposals" below and is removed once it has been sufficiently implemented.
16. If the wiki staff deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to cancel it at any time.
17. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first four days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by a staff member at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
18. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
19. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Staff changes are discussed internally and handled by the bureaucrats.
20. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
21. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal formatting

Copy and paste the formatting below to get started; your username and the proposal deadline will automatically be substituted when you save the page. Update the bracketed variables with actual information, and be sure to replace the whole variable including the square brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information" and not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but the objective(s) of each voting option must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}}<br>
'''Deadline''': {{subst:#time:F j, Y|+2 weeks}}, 23:59 GMT

====[option title (e.g. Support, Option 1)]: [brief summary of option]====
#{{User|{{subst:REVISIONUSER}}}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====[option title (e.g. Oppose, Option 2)]: [brief summary of option]====

====Comments ([brief proposal title])====

Autoconfirmed users will now be able to vote on your proposal. Remember that you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To vote for an option, just insert #{{User|[your username here]}} at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can simply say "Per proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. All of the above proposal rules also apply to talk page proposals. Place {{TPP}} under the section's heading, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

• Rename Robo Kikki to "Robo Monchee" (discuss) Deadline: January 25, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Rename Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Flash game) to Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Macromedia program) (discuss) Deadline: January 25, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Rename NES Classics (Flash game) to NES Classics (Macromedia program) (discuss) Deadline: January 25, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Move or Split id's Super Mario Bros. 3 Tech Demo (discuss) Deadline: January 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Spiky Tom and Spiky John (discuss) Deadline: January 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Determine the scope of the Goal Pole article (discuss) Deadline: January 26, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Clawing for More (WarioWare Gold) with Clawing for More (WarioWare: Touched!) (discuss) Deadline: January 27, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split Warudeijī from Daisy (discuss) Deadline: January 29, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split Dr. Luigi (character) from History of Luigi (discuss) Deadline: January 29, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Resplit Casanova Koopa from Luigi (discuss) Deadline: January 29, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Dangan Mario to Invincible Mario (discuss) Deadline: January 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split Waluigi (Super Mario Land 2: 6-tsu no Kinka 2) (discuss) Deadline: January 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Hurricane (move) into Gale Force (discuss) Deadline: January 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split F-Zero X (discuss) Deadline: January 31, 2025 23:59 GMT
• Give the Cluck-A-Pop Prizes articles (discuss) Deadline: January 31, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split Warupīchi (KC Mario) (discuss) Deadline: January 31, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Swap the spots of the To Do List and the Mushroom World Encyclopedia boxes on the main page (discuss) Deadline: February 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split Mario Toy Company general information into new article (discuss) Deadline: February 2, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Add VisualEditor (discuss) Deadline: February 4, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Poochy Dash into Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World and Poochy Hut (discuss) Deadline: February 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Split and rework the "partial conjecture" mode of Template:Conjecture (discuss) Deadline: February 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT
• Reverse the proposal to trim White Shy Guy (discuss) Deadline: February 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)

Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)

^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.

Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)

Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)

Use the classic and classic link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)

Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)

Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)

Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)

Stop considering reused voice clips as references (usually), Waluigi Time (ended November 8, 2024)

Allow English names from closed captions, Koopa con Carne (ended November 12, 2024)

^ NOTE: A number of names coming from closed captions are listed here.

Split off the Mario Kart Tour template(s), MightyMario (ended November 24, 2024)

Split major RPG appearances of recurring locations, EvieMaybe (ended December 16, 2024)

Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games, Nintendo101 (ended December 25, 2024)

Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork, Scrooge200 (ended January 5, 2025)

Organize "List of implied" articles, EvieMaybe (ended January 12, 2025)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)

Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)

Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)

Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)

Create articles for specified special buildings in Super Mario Run, Salmancer (ended November 15, 2024)

Expand and rename List of characters by game to List of characters by first appearance, Hewer (ended November 20, 2024)

Merge False Character and Fighting Polygon/Wireframe/Alloy/Mii Teams into List of Super Smash Bros. series bosses, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended December 2, 2024)

Make changes to List of Smash Taunt characters, Hewer (ended December 27, 2024)

Merge Wiggler Family to Dimble Wood, Camwoodstock (ended January 11, 2025)

Split the Ink Bomb, Camwoodstock (ended January 12, 2025)

Create a catch-all Poltergust article, Blinker (ended January 21, 2025)

List of Talk Page Proposals

• Delete Gallery:Super Mario. (Discuss) Deadline: October 1, 2014, 23:59 GMT
• Change the infobox image for Bowser Jr. (Discuss) Deadline: October 5, 2014, at 23:59 GMT
• Delete List of allies. (Discuss) Deadline: October 8, 2014, 23:59 GMT
• Split Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U into Template:Fakelink and Template:Fakelink (Discuss) Deadline: October 11, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Writing Guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

New Article

I was reading New Super Mario Bros. Wii when it hit me. We should make an Article called New Super Mario Bros. (Series). I mean really, look how muuch installments we have in the series and new ones coming soon. Also, we have Mario & Luigi (series) article, a Mario Kart (series) article and a Mario Party (series) article. So why not we make one for the New Super Mario Bros. Series while it is a popular series. Also, it can provide editorial oppurtunities because millions play it.

Proposer: Iggy Koopa777 (talk)
Deadline: September 30, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Iggy Koopa777 (talk) I Support this Idea
2. UltraMario3000 (talk)Per proposal. Why the heck not? I think it'd work pretty good.

Oppose

1. Skittles (talk) - Pretty much agree with what Walkazo said below; the NSMB series is part of the main Super Mario series and should not be separated from the rest of the games just because the gameplay is different. With the sports series and the RPG series, they are separate from the main games, therefore being deserving of a separate article to list the games and details of the series. The main series page we have now is fine and works well.
2. Mario (talk) We're messing with the foundation of the organization of this wiki. This proposal opens up questions regarding other "subseries" as well, including Super Mario Land, Super Mario 3D "thing", Super Mario Galaxy, and other subseries like that. Your examples describe standalone series, and New Super Mario Bros. is NOT a standalone series; it's a subseries of the "mainstream" Mario platformers. If this proposal passes, we have to acknowledge the existence of this New Super Mario Bros. series, which means we have to reorganize the history sections of a whole lot of articles, reorganize the navigational templates, and other things. Consider, if the door to acknowledging Super Mario Land and Super Mario 3D "thing" is opened because of this proposal, that means further reorganization of the history sections. Call me a slippery-slope spouter, but the amount of supports already, I find kind of alarming, so I'm opposing immediately.
3. Ghost Jam (talk) The way our lists are currently set up (which, as Walkazo pointed out below, are a mess and in need of maintenance), this would require a little restructuring and will most definitely have a snowball effect on the rest of the series lists. There is also the matter of acknowledging NSMB as a serperat series, what a series is, does it mesh with our current archiving methods, what are the long term effects on the rest of the lists (the snowball effect I mentioned). As Mario put it above, we're messing with the foundation here and I'm not comfortable with messing with the ground we're standing on till I'm sure the house isn't going to fall down as a result. There are various things to consider here and I don't feel that a proposal is going to offer enough time or space to hash them all out. My recommendation is to identify the various issues people are going to have, discuss them with the community on the forums, then bring the agreed upon criteria back here.
4. Ninelevendo (talk) The New Super Mario Bros Series is a sub-series of a sub-series in a series, which the wiki currently doesn't find applicable of having a page. Changing this would, like the people above said, cause a chain reaction, and end up making a everyone confused as to what deserves a page or not. If you make a proposal on changing how the wiki deals with Sub-series of sub-series (such as Mario Kart Arcade) that sounds reasonable, then this would be a good idea. In other words, per all.
5. Walkazo (talk) - Per myself in the comments, and per above, and per past proposals and discussions on similar matters. The Super Mario subseries is best read about as a whole, rather than breaking it into chunks; keeping the overall subseries page but making a separate NSMB-only sub-sub-series page isn't a solution to that since it just creates redundant duplication of info. It could also have repercussions on how History sections and other aspects of the wiki are organized, but in these cases too, keeping Super Mario games together makes more sense than splitting them up or getting horribly nested sub-sub-sub-sections and whatnot. Plus, making one sub-sub-series page might lead to more and more getting made, when we should really be focusing on making the series pages we already have actually look good.
6. Koopakoolklub (talk) Not that any of my votes matter anyway. What I would say has already been said. And in depth.
7. Randombob-omb4761 (talk) Per all.
8. Superfiremario (talk) Those series are all larger than the NSMB series. NSMB is still a relatively small series. And per everything else.

Comments

Haven't we been through this? - 22:22, 22 September 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, exactly, the problem is that NSMB isn't actually a standalone series like the examples listed - it's a sub-series of the overall Super Mario series, and thus, giving it a series page is actually something new and has implications for how we deal with the other sub-sets of Super Mario games. Will the original SMB games they get a series? What about how NSMB is basically just a modern continuation of the oldschool sidescrollers - is it really right to split them up? What about the 3D games, or will only the one with "3D" in the title get their own series page? And what are the implications for History section orders, templates and other wiki-wide organizational systems: right now, everything's pretty consistently going by the overall Super Mario series, and I'm leery of messing around with that. Plus, series pages are currently a mess anyway: I feel like it might be better to focus efforts on fixing up the existing Super Mario series page rather than making one or more new, smaller series pages that are basically just duplicated subsets of the overall series... - Walkazo 22:46, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Well, the Super Mario 3D series and the Super Mario Galaxy series are (currently!) just duos, but I'm curious about this; We don't have a page for this, and yet its amount of games are up to par with Super Mario Advance if New Super Luigi U isn't counted, and with the current number of Mario vs. Donkey Kong if it is. Is there areason for that? Especially because the SMA games are remakes with Mario Bros. stuck on. So basically, I can't vote yet. BabyLuigi64

Aside: Sorry for the premature deletion, everyone. Seemed like an open and shut violation to me and it probably would have been if a discussion hadn't broken out between us about this very subject at the same time. -- Ghost Jam 06:32, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

@Mario @GhostJam Erm... you two really have fear of changing some basics? I'm not blaming you at all, but I find it, like, a bit strange. Changing rules is a thing that sometimes in a project (MarioWiki, in this case) happens. By the by, I want to remember proposals can easily change from a win to a lose... TSUNAMI

But wait, the Super Mario Advance series is just a remake collection. At this point, since NSMB series is, more than a remake, a (sub)series, what should we do? Delete that too? I don't understand the organization anymore. Please, explain it to me. TSUNAMI

Look we made Subseries into pages such as Mario Kart, Mario Party, etc. and there is enough installments (5) so why oppose?
And SMB, SMB2, SMB3 did not have the word "New" in their names so i am not saying "count them" i mean the 5 installments (NSMB, NSMBWii, NSMB2, NSMBU, NSLU) also this series is still pretty popular so let's do it when it is still popular. Iggy Koopa777 (talk)

@Tsunami Advance gets it own series page because it's just a remake series, not a new instalment in the Super Mario Bros. line like the NSMB games are.

@IggyKoopa777 Mario Kart and Mario Party are a completely separate and cut-off sub series from the Super Mario (Bros.) series, wheras the New Super Mario Bros series is a sub series of a sub series. Changing this would result in a lot of chages, and lots of them wouldn't make sense. If we take a while and work something out, then we can understand what would go where. - 08:49, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

@Ninelevendo What? Super Mario Bros. is a subseries? Of what? We don't have "Super Mario 2D (series)". Sorry, I don't get this at all. NSMB could also simply be a continuation of it. I recognize all pseudo-series as series, and the Super Mario series as a whole as a collection of them. I have confusion, so I will be neautral by not voting like BabyLuigi64 does. TSUNAMI

@Iggy Koopa777 I should also add, Mario Kart and Mario Party are MUCH larger than NSMB, both have hit more than ten titles. The Mario Kart games reach a total of 11 games including arcade titles, meanwhile, Mario Party reaches 16, again including arcade games but discounting MP10. Therefore, the articles can be and are much more expansive.
@Tsunami I think Ninelevendo is referring to how the Super Mario Bros. games are a subset of the Mario series as a whole.BabyLuigi64

And then, if the Super Mario 2D is ever recognized as a series (I know it isn't), where is it placed in the diagram I am starting figuring out? I'm thinking a diagram image should be uploaded to avoid confusion. Not the general one, we already have it. By the way, no, I won't vote again, but remain neautral. TSUNAMI

Just a reminder that new comments always go on the bottom, lest this becomes a total mess. Anyway, as long as a set of games has three or more entries, it can get a series, that's not the problem here: the real question isn't "how much", it's "what". I.e. should a sub-sub-series of the Super Mario sub-series (of the overall Mario series) get a series article like its parent sub-series and other sub-series (like Mario Kart and whatnot), or is that going to cause organizational issues and inconsistencies between articles and series pages, duplication of information, and/or a snowball effect of sub-sub-series pages for increasingly blurry game groupings? I.e. should the original SMB games get a page too? Should SM64, SMS and the Galaxy games be grouped together as the more open-world platformers? Should the 3D games go with them because it's also 3D even if it's a bit more sidescrollery? If they make a third Galaxy game, will it get a separate series page? If they make a third 3D Land/World/etc. game, will it get a page? If they make a 3D Galaxy game then what do we do? And going outside the Super Mario games, should the three Mario Kart Arcade GP games get a page? Or the Super Mario Fushigi arcade party games? Do we really want to start prying open these cans of worms when the series pages we can agree on are already in rough shape? Anyway, the points about there already being a Super Mario Advance (series) are fair, and part of me feels like it'd be easier to just delete that page, but it's a bit different in that it's also got the Yoshi's Island remake in there, so it's not purely a subset of Super Mario-only games. It might be best to have a separate discussion/proposal about that series page... - Walkazo 16:27, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

@TsunamiIt has less to do with fear of change and more to do with apprehension over overhauling an already incomplete system. The fact that we only have one main-sub-series page is endemic of the problem and most of us just aren't comfortable letting it spread without having a discussion about the long reaching effects of such a change. Also, I disagree with this comment at the bottom thing. I can't speak for anyone else, but I find this @[PERSON] crap harder to follow than just having a standard reply indent. -- Ghost Jam 20:27, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

@Mario @GhostJam Erm... you two really have fear of changing some basics? I'm not blaming you at all, but I find it, like, a bit strange. Changing rules is a thing that sometimes in a project (MarioWiki, in this case) happens. By the by, I want to remember proposals can easily change from a win to a lose... TSUNAMI

I'm not afraid to change the basics. But this proposal is changing how we organize the wiki, and I don't really like to change multitudes among multitudes of history sections. Plus, it does invite discussions about those other "mainstream" platformer subseries like Super Mario Land. Our system isn't superbly flawed either, so it gives me and several other editors much less incentive to work so much with so little payoff.

As far as I remember, 'kazo, isn't Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island considered part of the "mainstream" Mario platformer games by some guys at Nintendo? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 21:44, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, but the consensus was that the wiki was gonna keep it separated for organizational purposes, citing the different gameplay, and the Yoshi Egg logo, and other things like that as reasons why it has more in common with the Yoshi series that followed it, rather than the SM series that spawned it. Plus, it's not in the SMASLE "Super Mario History" booklet (the other three SMA games were included), which is pretty much our only concrete official published Nintendo weigh-in on what's pat of the "Super Mario" series; iirc, Miyamoto said they consider it part of the main series (or something like that) in an interview, which wasn't worth uprooting the wiki's organizational system. And still isn't. - Walkazo (talk)

Sorry for bugging you. I couldn't find an argument against that statement, since I'm also really iffy on that sort of stuff. I don't know how I missed conversations regarding that. So yeah, there's always a new person who needs an explanation. ^^' It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 22:13, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

The debate was two years ago and was mostly exhausting walls of text by me and rebuttals laced with nasty little barbs from the other guy. The forum thread specifically about the interview actually ended up getting locked and thrown in topic storage, it got so badly derailed. - Walkazo (talk)

Thanks for letting me know. I think it was during the time of my temporary year-long departure (please don't ask why), so yeah, I missed quite a lot there. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 23:20, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

Well, it ended in no change, so you didn't really miss much more than a messy debate. @Ghost Jam: I've seen some really screwed up Comments sections, like with people inserting new arguments about a point that was already discussed below, and posting three new comments when one could be done, and whatnot, and overall, it can make conversations/stances look circular or contrary or just plain messy. It's much easier to just always put stuff at the bottom, and indenting can still be used in addition to "@whoever:" for extra continuity (i.e. if a conversations' very indented and then someone comes and makes some unrelated (unindented) remark, just ignore it and stick with the indenting, although it breaks down if there's lots of remarks between the old post and the response). - Walkazo (talk)

Ok. Let's clear up this confusion. I am NOT talking about old school games like SMB or SML. I mean NSMBU, NSMB, NSMBWii, NSMB2 and and NSLU. And Can't anyone notice the title is called New Super Mario Bros. (Series) notice that "New" part there?, yeah, that is what i am talking about. It says it right there New Super Mario Bros. (Series). NOT Super Mario Bros. (Series). Paper Iggy Koopa

That's not the problem. The problem is by acknowledging a new subseries, we have to rewrite history sections for a whole ton of articles. Plus, just because it has "new" doesn't mean it's a subseries. By the logic, Super Mario Land and Super Mario 3D "thing" and Super Mario Galaxy may qualify as additional subseries, which will we will further have to accommodate for the changes. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:13, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

The thing you don't understand is that the word "New" doesn't mean that it's a different series, it is still part of the Super Mario [Bros.] (series). - 17:33, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

We're talking about how we would handle it with other sub-subseries games; we can't make a proposal for one without it affecting similar things. BabyLuigi64

Which is why I suggested moving this to the forums where an organized discussion can take place. Bring the results of that discussion back to here and we'll vote on it again. -- Ghost Jam 19:27, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

@Ninelevendo Look there is many differences also note that Super Mario Advance is made into a Series article But Wait!, it is just remakes. Also is it in 2D, do you see it's power ups in the old school version? Paper Iggy Koopa

Do you see Super Paper Mario with turn based battles? Yet it's still a Paper Mario game. Do you see 4 separate characters in Mario Party 9? Yet it's still a Mario Party game. The fact that it's different is a flawed argument. The New Super Mario Bros. Series is a series within a series. Therefore splitting this would question things like the Mario Kart Arcade series. - 22:46, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

Actually, keeping the Mario Kart Arcade series together with the entire Mario Kart series is a debatable argument Ray Trace^(T|C) 18:36, 28 September 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, I'd argue for splitting the Arcade series into another series. It wouldn't have as much as a ripple effect since it's a much narrower scope, but... eh? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:51, 28 September 2014 (EDT)

@Superfiremario: Size doesn't get factored in as much when it comes to separate series. Mario & Luigi, Mario Strikers, and Mario Baseball have less games than the collective New Super Mario Bros. subseries. Just letting you know. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 22:43, 28 September 2014 (EDT)

Ok, lets explain something. First, We made Paper Mario into a series page and it has only 4 installments and there is huge differences in this so called "Series". plus the 3DS adaptation is called New Super Mario Bros. 2. Wait wait wait?!, New Super Mario Bros. 2 notice the 2 part there?, it sounds a lot like a series. Paper Iggy Koopa

I don't get the analogy. From its debut, New Super Mario Bros. is originally something like a "revival" of the traditional 2D Mario platformers. It spawned several sequels bearing the name "new". I agree that New Super Mario Bros. is a sub-subseries, but we're not arguing about that. We're arguing on whenever it deserves its own series page. The way the wiki is structured, we put all the "mainstream" Mario platformers into one group, and I think this organizational structure is going swimmingly. Now, if we were to create a separate series page, we have to reorganize our history sections. Not only this, this proposal will invite discussion on whenever Sunshine and 64 should be grouped as a subseries, whenever the Super Mario Land games should be grouped, whenever the Galaxy games should be grouped, and whenever the Super Mario 3D Land/World games should be grouped. That's the fundamental part of my and several other opposers' arguments, and you're consistently not getting that point.

Finally, such subseries page is redundant with Super Mario (series). Now, now, we do have redundant subseries pages including DK (series), Konkey Dong Country (series), but that's a problem we're trying to deal with and adding this subsubseries as an article is going to add on to our headaches. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 23:12, 28 September 2014 (EDT)

I think the overall DK series (containing DKC/L, Konga, plus other things like Barrel Blast, etc.) is more akin to the overall Mario series rather than any one of its subseries, so it having subseries isn't an issue like the Super Mario subseries potentially having sub-sub-series. Similarly, there's overall Wario and Yoshi series, both of which can have subseries (Wario already does, with Wario Land, WarioWare and standalone things). MarioWiki:Categories and MarioWiki:Coverage both reflect this "big 4" approach. - Walkazo (talk)

One thing: You keep mentioning other series that get pages (Paper Mario, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Mario & Luigi) but they are standalone series. The four are part of no bigger karting/racing, party, or RPG series. As commonly agreed upon, New Super Mario Bros. is an extension/revival of the original quartet of Super Mario Bros. games. Therefore, it is considered a subset of the whole Super Mario Bros. series. It's not that we don't think of the games as a series (oh and by the way, numbers aren't everything in determining a series, look at Paper Mario) but it's a smaller set of another. BabyLuigi64

I doubt this proposal will pass, oh well, at least i tried. Dreams do not come true every day. Paper Iggy Koopa

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.