Talk:Boo Guy

Bomb version

According to the Shogakukan (need to find a better way to remember how to spell that than "look at my short-term history") guide for Yoshi's New Island, the bomb-dropping version has a distinct nameMedia:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P26.jpg from the "normal" version. Also apparently the PiT one is Greaper, mayhaps it's a rename? Anyways, how about the two names here? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:14, 19 December 2017 (EST)

It's Relay Heihō (リレーヘイホー). Like Bouncing Bullet Bill, they didn't originally have their own name in Japanese guides, but they got one in Yoshi's New Island, complete with a separate entry internally (G:/content0.game/romfs/stage/cmp_gmk_relayheyho.csv). Who knows why the mace-pulling versions remain unnamed. As for Reihō/Greaper, I'm not sure what happened there - my guess is that the RPG text had space constraints, resulting in the alternate name. However, the name Reihō is also mentioned in its profile in a Japanese Yoshi's Island DS guide. LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:45, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Which page? The enemy guide spells it as "Yurei Heiho" still. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:00, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Disregard, I must've misread it. In any case, though I'm not sure about Greaper, I think Relay Heihō should be considered a derived Boo Guy article. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:20, 19 December 2017 (EST)

T'would make sense, as they now have a distinct name in some language. Remember, Bullet Bill and Bull's-eye Missile Bill were considered to be basically a Green-Red Troopa situation in Japan initially, ie variants of the same enemy (explaining SM64 and SMG), but were eventually given separate names over there as well. In this case, we only have the JP name to work with as of now, but it seems a tad more splittable than Short Fuse and Seedy Sally. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:30, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Short Fuse and Seedy Sally have every Japanese guide and Yoshi's Woolly World against them, so Relay Heihō certainly has it easier. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:51, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Alledged relation to Boos

The supposed relation to Boos seems to be something completely made up by the Western localization, and as such all Boo Guys should be removed from the "Boo" category and template. In the Japanese version, they were simply "Yurei Heiho", with the American version making the obviously-untrue assertion that they are "Boo Babies." Anyways, since this has caused much confusion it seems, I think it needs to be said that these are not Boos. If they were, the Japanese name would have been the obvious "Tereiho" or something. Besides, "boo" is a generic exclamation relating to ghosts, for instance Mssr Boo isn't a Boo. And these were not designed to invoke Boos, they were designed simply to be ghostly Shy Guys. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:42, 13 April 2018 (EDT)

The same thing can be said with Anuboo and Fuzzipede, but if we remove their connection with Boos, then we should do the same thing with Snufits. VOIDTHIS (talk) 20:10, 20 June 2018 (CEST)

Snufits aren't Boos in any way, barring the original spherical shape, and there were plenty of spherical enemies in SM64. Boo was actually more oblong in that game anyways. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:43, 20 June 2018 (EDT)

The main issue is that this isn't just a one-time thing that simply went away like Mace Penguin - it's used rather consistently in almost every game the enemy appears in, and according to the names in other languages section, it's not only the English translation. That makes it pretty unmistakable what "Boo" refers to in this context, putting it in the same boat as Fishing Boo. I really doubt that the localizers are going to budge on this one anytime soon. That being said, I don't think I'd be opposed to removing mentions of Boo in Boo Guy's derived/related species. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:24, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

See, in the name I don't see it as referring to the Boo species, but as the stereotypical ghostly interjection, akin to how Mssr Boo isn't named after the Boo species. So it's not too concrete there. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:34, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

That would make sense if it was just the English version, but it's also the case in several other languages. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:40, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

I doubt "Boo" as an interjection is unique to English. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:05, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Cursory searching for the spelling of Boo/Buu tells me that it pretty much is, but I don't know for sure; what I do know is that the original description for this enemy in Shogakukan guidesMedia:Advance 3 Shogakukan P23.png never actually stated the species, but it was added in laterMedia:Yoshi New Island Shogakukan P26.jpg by the guides for the sequels, meaning that the Boo explanationMedia:SMW2 Guide 126.jpg was technically first. It's also possible that this information wasn't totally "made up" - if the translators had developer knowledge that it is conceptually based on Boo and Shy Guy, it would stand to reason that they would adjust its name accordingly, hence why they ran with Boo Guy. We don't know the full story, but it still can't be dismissed. LinkTheLefty (talk) 03:00, 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Thinking about it some more, while the "boo!" explanation still doesn't hold much water for the reason I've outlined, perhaps a better way to justify Boo Guy would be to explain "Boo" as merely a name descriptor (ie. a Boo-like Shy Guy) and not necessarily any real indication of species; upon closer inspection, the keyword "basically" in the description from the Nintendo Power guide can support this interpretation. So how about this: instead of completely scrubbing references to Boo from the article, why not move it to a related species slot until further notice? LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:00, 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Maybe. What about templates and categories? (Probably a similar situation would be Octoombas and Octoboos; neither are a true Goomba or Boo, but are comparable to them...) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:06, 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Related species typically aren't listed in templates and categories since the connection is indirect, so Boo would be removed from them in this scenario. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:42, 18 July 2018 (EDT)

Not to revive an old discussion, but I did say back then that the translators possibly had developer knowledge. While it's not known yet for sure if that's the case with Boo Guy, since then, it was found to be true for Fishin' Boo. I'm surprised this hasn't been pointed out here somewhere. There's also the fact that the Nintendo Power coverage of Mario vs. Donkey Kong - in collaboration with the game's own director, Yukimi Shimura - refers to the enemies as Boos. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:54, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

Merge Greaper and/or Polterguy with Boo Guy

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

keep separate 0-0-6-7
This proposal aims to settle the score with these two Boo Guy offshoots. To sum up, Greaper's Japanese name has been reused for at least one appearance of the standard Boo Guy, in Partners in Time. レイホー (Reihō) is a contracted form of ゆーれいヘイホー (Yūrei Heihō), so it can be argued that it was a name change done for in-game space constraints. Why would the translation be different? Simple: localization coordination was not as prioritized back then, and the original Super Mario RPG especially but, in my opinion, unfairly became a prime example of that undercoordination. Why wouldn't the remake catch it? In fairness, seemingly no one remembered what the deal was with Chompweed. Why the scythe? That, I don't have a decent explanation for except it's possibly a vestige of earlier concepts. Polterguy is another matter. It's very clearly Mario vs. Donkey Kong's toy Boo Guy design. Recent proposals have been merging the toy designs back with their main counterparts. Internal names in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong remake, at least some of which date back to original development, seem to refer to these guys as Ghost Shy Guys, which is a basic translation of the Japanese name. My conjecture is that "Polterguy" and "Phantom Guy" were just experimental names to remove the Boo influence, and neither stuck around in the long haul. The fact that Nintendo Power's tips for the original Mario vs. Donkey Kong (reportedly from game director Yukimi Shimura) refers to them as "Boos" makes me believe "Boo Guy" was the intended name but led to some confusion.

Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk)
Deadline: July 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 3: Merge only Polterguy with Boo Guy

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) My preferred option. I currently find this to be the more compelling merge.
2. Hewer (talk) The Greaper merge feels a bit tenuous, but this one makes sense given we've been merging other toy counterparts.
3. Blinker (talk) Polterguy makes sense, but Greaper? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall SMRPG otherwise taking any influence from Yoshi's Island, aside from the reference in Wizakoopa's thought.
4. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - This makes sense to me. In want of further evidence, I'm inclined to believe the Greaper thing is a coincidence.
5. Arend (talk) Not sure about Greaper, but merging Polterguy absolutely makes sense to me. Near identical designs, and identical Japanese names, it's practically a toy version of Boo Guy. And considering we merged the other toy versions to their non-toy counterparts...
6. JanMisali (talk) Per all.

Option 4: Keep Greaper and Polterguy separate from Boo Guy

1. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) All this looks a bit messy to me and appears to be too reliant on Japanese names.
2. FanOfYoshi (talk) Yeah, no. Also, per Bowser.
3. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Let me think...NO.
4. DrBaskerville (talk) Per all. Just like Goomba and Paragoomba and all other similar enemies, these are different enemies that deserve their own pages.
5. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per all.
6. ReeceeYT (talk) Per all.
7. Nintendo101 (talk) I understand the perspective, but I am not convinced the name of the Boo Guy in Partners in Time can be comfortably applied to Greapers. As for Polterguy, it also looks too different from Boo Guy (beyond it being a toy), is mechanically distinct, and it was notably developed by American staff. If it was supposed to be a Boo Guy, why didn't they just call it one? Or call it a blue Boo Guy if it was supposed to be some weird variant? The other returning toy iterations of classic enemies in MvsDK are not like this.

Comments

If there are any other suggestions for handling the Partners in Time Boo Guys, I might incorporate it in the proposal if there's interest. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:54, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

Would this result in an article rename? Or is Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World the last time Boo Guys/Polterguys were named? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 02:13, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Merging Greaper would theoretically make that the most recent name, but we've generally overlooked unchanged names in the Super Mario RPG and The Thousand-Year Door remakes for the time being. Polterguy wouldn't change the name since Boo Guy resurfaced in Woolly World, which reverted some other enemies like Burt (last called "Burt Brother" in Yoshi's Island DS). LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:25, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Sorry, but no. As has been said numerous times on this wiki, Japanese names mean absolutely nothing when it comes to subjects in the games considering they have the same Japanese names but that's about it. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:57, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Let's reframe this, then: what about Polterguy doesn't make it the Mario vs. Donkey Kong "toy" counterpart of Boo Guy? And are we 100% certain that Greaper wasn't another victim of undercoordination? LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:04, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Well, SMRPG has practically no influence from Yoshi's Island, so I'd say Greaper is probably a coincidence. Polterguy, on the other hand.. Blinker (talk) 09:54, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, Greaper is coincidence while Polter/Phantom Guy is just a ghostly Shy Guy that happens to share a Japanese name. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:41, July 6, 2024 (EDT)

Blinker actually seems to be in agreement that Polterguy should be merged, and I can see why. Aside from sharing the same Japanese name, Polterguy actually looks nearly identical to a Boo Guy too: they're both Shy Guys with a wispy tail instead of a belt and a pair of feet. The only difference appearance-wise is the fact that Polterguy appears in the colors red, blue and yellow, whereas Boo Guys are white. Color variants shouldn't make this enemy a completely different entity, and if this is anything to go by, neither do toy variants. Different behavior shouldn't also be a concern, as Boo also behaves differently between Mario vs. Donkey Kong (and its remake), and Mini Mario & Friends: amiibo Challenge, yet we still have that merged.
I probably should repeat LinkTheLefty's reframed question, since you never seemed to have answered it: what about Polterguy doesn't make it the Mario vs. Donkey Kong "toy" counterpart of Boo Guy? rend (talk) (edits) 08:20, July 6, 2024 (EDT)

The possibility that the developers may not even have been aware of Yoshi's Island in the first place. After all, we used to have Special Shots from the Mario sports games on one page despite the fact that Square Enix and Camelot Software weren't even aware of each other's games. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:40, July 7, 2024 (EDT)

What about Spear Shy Guy, which was merged to Spear Guy earlier this year? Blinker (talk) 12:41, July 7, 2024 (EDT)

Just because devs were different doesn't mean they had no clue about each other's existence. Yoshi's Island is hardly an obscure game, and is frequently referenced in games with different developers. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:25, July 7, 2024 (EDT)

I can believe that with Greaper since Yoshi's Island and Super Mario RPG only released roughly half a year apart and were in development concurrently, but by Mario vs. Donkey Kong? Not to mention, much of the supervising Nintendo staff overlapped in some way. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:28, July 7, 2024 (EDT)

@DrBaskerville: How is this remotely like Goomba and Paragoomba? Those are variants that have co-existed in the same games and have clear, consistent visual and functional differences, plus different names in all languages. Meanwhile, Polterguy's English name was the only thing that stopped it from being merged already by this proposal. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:58, July 6, 2024 (EDT)