Talk:Hisstocrat

(First topic)

How is his german name?
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.83.60.108 (talk).

Only people that play the German version know. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 17:49, 24 November 2013 (EST)

Von Zischel is his name. MeincraftManu (talk) 17:33, 30 November 2013 (EST)

I think his minions are part of the Cobrat enemy family. they could be the the new cobrat enemy and then again. i could be wrong.

A Banquet with Hisstocrat

Should we have information of the level "A Banquet with Hisstocrat" here, like bosses from Donkey Kong Country series have their levels merged with their articles? MegaKoopa Talk 09:46, 13 December 2013 (EST)

Actually, the boss levels should be split from the bosses themselves. Levels =/= bosses. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:47, 13 December 2013 (EST)

The Snake Minions

I think his minions are part of the Cobrat enemy family. they could be the the new cobrat enemy and then again. i could be wrong. - King Bowser Koopa

There's no official source for these though; this relies on speculation and we don't support speculation at the wiki Ray Trace^(T|C) 20:09, 24 December 2013 (EST)

Make a Hisstocrat's Minions article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

do not make hisstocrat's minions article 1-4
I feel that Hisstocrat's minions should have an article for themselves. They themselves are actually the main enemy in the fight, and are actually the key to defeating their king. I doubt that the names will be given in future Nintendo Directs, and I bought every single legitimate-looking Super Mario 3D World guide I could find. None of them had the names for these snakes, and even the official Prima Guide came to nothing more specific. I say that we make this article and put it under the conjecture template until we find the real names of these snakes. I am sure that Nintendo won't be giving us the names of these snakes for at least three or four years.

So, what do you think? Create the article or wait it out?

Proposer: KP (talk)
Deadline: January 13, 2014, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. KP (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. DonnyKD (talk) They do not do enough or are seen enough outside the Hisstocrat bosses to be worth giving an entire article to.
2. Zero777 (talk) Policy states that we should avoid as many conjectural articles as possible.
3. Randombob-omb4761 (talk) I think it should go in the Hisstocrat page because his minions have no offical name.
4. RandomDSplayer (talk) Per all.

Comments

@DonnyKD- I see your point, but then Lava Bud and Petit Piranha articles would not exist at all, to name a few, by your logic. --KP (talk) 14:40, 30 December 2013 (EST)

But those enemies actually have differing stats. These are just small enemies that appear mainly as platforms to hit the boss. But then again, we have an article on those ---ing trees in a race track that do even less than these enemies. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:51, 30 December 2013 (EST)

See? I'm doing this for consistency in order to avoid a blue link for the Moving Tree page and no link for these guys who serve much more in the game. If this article can't be created, we should delete the Moving Tree article and much more of them too. --KP (talk) 14:59, 30 December 2013 (EST)

Seeing as there is also a Queen Histrocrat what about a Hisstocrat species page. Yoshi876 (talk)

I'm thinking that would also be reasonable, since there's the queen, the king, and the minion. --KP (talk) 15:04, 30 December 2013 (EST)

Hisstocrats' species is most likely just snake. I don't believe "Hisstocrat" could be a species. MegaKoopa Talk 20:42, 31 December 2013 (EST)

Species (continuation of above discussion)

"Hisstocrat" is a combination of "Hiss" and "aristocrat", so it can only refer to the king and queen, anyway. Thus far, they're unidentified snakes. User:8BrickMario

Queen Hisstocrat

Shouldn't Queen Hisstocrat be moved to her own article? I mean we got Gobbleguts and Fire Gobbleguts in separate articles despite them being the same guy but with a fiery power up, so shouldn't she have her own article since she's clearly a separate character? -The Forgotten Beast (talk) 13:34, 27 March 2014 (EDT)

Split Queen Hisstocrat from Hisstocrat

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
Yes I know Walkazo said yes to my suggestion but I'm making this a talk page proposal incase there's any reasonable opposition to this, and I know that several points can be made against this split, but I'll explain to people who aren't familiar with the game.

Queen Hisstocrat is simply a recolored "girl" version of Hisstocrat, true, but her boss fight involves fire rather than rock, something already more distinguishable from Behemoth and Behemoth King, both split articles where the stronger version is also a recolored variant (in this case, Behemoth King, simply just a red Behemoth). A good example for the split would be Gobblegut and Fiery Gobblegut or Dino Piranha and Fiery Dino Piranha, both redder and more fiery versions of their original counterpart, but get their own articles. She also gets her own name, Queen Hisstocrat, which furthers the argument that she should be split. Finally, she actually appears alongside Hisstocrat in a later boss fight level, making these two clearly separate individuals who therefore need separate articles.

Proposer: Baby Luigi (talk)
Deadline: November 24, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Baby Luigi (talk)

Comments

Given all those points, there can't be reasonable opposition: just split the page. - Walkazo 14:48, 10 November 2015 (EST)

Okay then, just cancel the proposal and I will split the page. Ray Trace^(T|C) 14:49, 10 November 2015 (EST)

You can cancel the proposal yourself. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

Fine. Ray Trace^(T|C) 15:47, 10 November 2015 (EST)

Minions

Do his and Queen Hisstocrat's minions have a separate object from them? The encyclopedia does not separate them, and they seem to have a different model. -- FanOfYoshi at 11:18, July 6, 2019 (EDT)

The blue one's minion is TentackTentacle and the pink one's minion is TentackTentacleLv2 (additionally, the blue Hisstocrat is TentackHead and the pink one is TentackHeadLv2). LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:56, July 6, 2019 (EDT)

Create page for "Hisstocrat Minions"

Same case with motley Bossblob, although we don't have official names or even mentions, I think they do deserve their own page, they are sufficiently different and if Hisstocrat works as king of these, we should have its page.Sorbetti (talk)

I would rather wee keep these subjects on one page. They are not highlighted in any official source - be it in Japanese or English - as a distinct subject, and they may be additional heads of Hisstocrat, based on the likely source of inspiration for the boss. Their identity as something separate from Hisstocrat is likely a misread, otherwise they would be highlighted in a licensed source. - Nintendo101 (talk) 20:21, March 7, 2025 (EST)

I think we should mention them on the page, or else a proposal for both Hisstocrat and Motley would be betterSorbetti (talk)

It seems to me that they already are discussed in the Hisstocrat article. They are simply called "snakes" in it. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:14, March 7, 2025 (EST)

I totally understand your point and the fact that we don't have official material that mentions them makes it more complicated, however there are pages that have been able to be created without official material such as Big Frame Boo so I still have my doubts, what do you think we could do to clear this up once and for all?--Sorbetti (talk) 11:51, March 8, 2025 (EST)

i don't think this is a good idea. hisstocrat only appears in its battle and so do the snakes, it'd be needless splitting of information across two pages. — eviemaybe (talk / contributions) 14:38, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

A name for the Minions of Histocrat?

This talk page or section has a conflict or question that needs to be answered. Please try to help and resolve the issue by leaving a comment.

I was looking at a Spanish version of the Mario encyclopedia and in the description of Histocrat they are called Small Histocrat but in Spanish, in Spanish Histocrat is called "Su Serpenteza" and the encyclopedia calls them "Pequeñas Serpentezas", would this information be useful?Sorbetti (talk)

Seems like something you could add to NIOL. Technetium (talk) 10:21, March 17, 2025 (EDT)

what is NIOL?Sorbetti (talk) 20:08, March 18, 2025 (EDT)

Names in other languages. By the way, the equivalent to the Spanish/Japanese in the English version of the Encyclopedia (which we're slowly unbanning) generically refers to them as "smaller snakes". As it turns out, this is also how the snakes are referred to in the Prima guide (pg.89: "Eventually, smaller snakes will burst out from the ground near Hisstocrate"…"You can climb up the sides of these smaller snakes with the Cat Power-Up"…"A successful stomp causes all of the smaller snakes to retreat"…; pg.197: "Hisstocrat is also proactive about getting rid of the smaller snakes so you can’t set up a stomp.") I guess we have a match? I prefer "helper snake" though; pg.197: "In general, Hisstocrat and the helper snakes move much faster, meaning you’ve got less time to get into position to land a stomp." LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:18, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

I will relay what I shared on Discord. In my personal opinion, those "minions" are ontologically extensions of the Hisstocrat itself and do not benefit from having a page of their own. It's not highlighted in any official bestiaries, unlike Broode's Chain Chomp or similar subjects, and Hisstocrat in particular potentially takes design queues from Yamata no Orochi, which is a multiheaded serpent, so the other snakes may even be additional heads on the Hisstocrat, rather than completely separate individuals. They mechanically exist only to support Hisstocrat and I think they are best covered on the same page. I hole similar views for Small Fry Guys, which I think should be lumped with Fryguy on similar grounds. - Nintendo101 (talk) 16:20, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

Oh, no, I don't want to split this, either. I thought this was just looking for a better word to use for the minions. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:27, March 27, 2025 (EDT)

Split Chīsana Hebī Sunēku from Hisstocrat

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Monday, April 21, 2025, 11:52 GMT

Let's Start Hisstocrat is a boss in Super Mario 3D World. He's a Snake King accompanied by smaller snakes. These snakes don't have a clear recognition from Nintendo over time until the Mario Bros encyclopedia came out, in the Japanese version, they do receive a name. 小さなヘビースネーク=Chīsana Hebī Sunēku=Small Hisstocrat

I saw the argument that they were tentacles, given their internal names and the legend they're inspired by. But this argument is very far-fetched for what it is: they're snakes that Hisstocrat pulls out of the ground with his hissing noise.

1. here we can see how Hisstocrat makes a whistle to call his minions, If they were really tentacles, why would he need to call them to appear?

2. When Hisstocrat is defeated, the other snakes also die, so they are tentacles, right? No, the reason is simpler. In every Mario game, every time the boss is defeated, every enemy in the surrounding area also dies, so it's not a good argument.

3.There are three different types of Chīsana Hebī Sunēku

A. Is the normal one, which holds a plate, the player must climb through it, reach the plate and jump towards Hisstocrat

• 

B. They will hold a broken plate, if the player steps on the plate, it will break and Chīsana Hebī Sunēku will start to bite.

• 

C. When they come out of the ground they will start biting immediately.

• 

As you can see, it's quite a bit of information, keep in mind that I summarized it and that I didn't include the version with a Power Up and the Pink Versions of Hisstocrat Pink.

All this information isn't included in the hisstocrat article, but why should it be? If the article is about hisstocrat and also talks a bit about the fight, why have a space focused solely on his minions? Wouldn't their own page be better?

4. We have pages for minions with even more insignificant mentions, such as Green enemy, Slave Basa, Mechanical Fish, or Hammer (Wario Land 4).

5. I forgot this, but in Mario Kart World one of the karts makes reference to these enemies.

• 

And most importantly, after all, there can't be a king without troops to command, right?

Proposer: Sorbetti (talk)
Deadline: May 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT

Sssssssupport(Support)

1. Sorbetti (talk) Per proposal.
2. Rykitu (talk) Per proposssssal.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Proposal. It always struck us as kind of strange just how much is merged into this article; the pink Hisstocrat makes a bit of sense, given how we handle other unnamed variants of 3D bosses like this, but the minions have... Less reason to be melded, especially now that we have an actual name (albeit a foreign one) that distinguishes them from the "main" Hisstocrat.

Oppossssssse(Oppose)

1. Nintendo101 (talk) I think there is little concrete evidence that the smaller snakes are a subject distinct from the Hisstocrat itself, and until they show up in an undisputed, isolated context separate from the big snake boss itself, I would not support a split. It is notable that the "small Hisstocrat" is only described in the description for Hisstocrat, and it does not employ the traditional adjective used for the small variants of enemies, like "Chibi Kuribo," almost as if it is describing them in an informal sense. It is not listed separately in any bestiary, and none of the evidence indicates they are not connected to the same body as the main Hisstocrat boss. (It is a common, cute trope to have subjects with multiple heads be able to interact with them as if separate individuals). I remain unpersuaded until the little Hisstocrats/heads show up in something like Mario Party. Not an homage to them, but the real thing.
2. Pizza Master (talk) Like the royal bus and its driver and MC Ballyhoo & Big Top among other such subjects, these minions are not seen in a setting where Hisstocrat isn't present. A similar instance to this is Fry Guy and the "Small Fry Guy" that were merged a couple years ago. The issue isn't whether they're separate characters but whether they are ever seen apart. Unlike Mini Goombas which have been seen apart from Paragoombas, these minions can't say they've been seen apart from Hisstocrat. However, I do believe it should be noted in the names in other languages section of the Hisstocrat article.
3. PopitTart (talk) Per all. There's just nothing to say about these that isn't... describing the Hisstocrat's fight. I think the provided "exclusive element of a boss fight" examples should also be merged with their bosses.
4. EvieMaybe (talk) per all. also, their behavior is so simplistic that it's easier to wrap it into Hisstocrat's page to make the boss fight easier to understand.
5. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Per all.
6. Blinker (talk) Per Nintendo101.

Commentsssssss

@Pizza Master The Small Fry Guy proposal didn't happen years ago, it happened 5 days ago and I made it. The comparison between these two individuals is completely different, while Hisstocrat can be seen accompanied by his minions, Small Fry Guys are parts of Fry Guy that are formed when it is destroyed, a transformation, so it's not relevant even as a comparison, also according to your way of thinking you think it is better not to create pages for enemies exclusive to a Boss Fight, which is fine, everyone has their opinion, however as the wiki currently handles minions your comment seems that more than going against Hisstocrats Minions, goes against the creation of pages for enemies that appear in bosses, but as I mentioned before, the wiki handles it like that, so I recommend that you make a proposal regarding it, because you are not against my proposal, you are against the idea of pages like this which covers a more general concept and is outside of my proposal. Sorbetti (talk) contributions 21:48, April 17, 2025 (EDT)

Right, my mistake. I read in the history that the idea to merge it was years ago and assumed. I'll make sure to accurately research next time. You're correct about my thinking regarding one-time Boss minions and I will wait about a month and a half later so as to not violate rule 9. (Proposals cannot contradict an already ongoing proposal or overturn the decision of a previous proposal that concluded less than four weeks (28 days) ago i.e. this proposal and my proposal on merging the Kameks). -- Pizza Master (talk)

@PopitTart None of the features I mentioned above are mentioned in the Hisstocrat article. There's no mention of variants, no mention of the one that gives you a power up, no mention of the one with the fragile plate, or anything. And what's the point of adding this to the Histocrat page if, rather than talking about Hisstocrat or the fight, we're going to talk about the different types of minions that can be in the fight, and how to avoid or use them? Sorbetti (talk) contributions 22:59, April 17, 2025 (EDT)

@EvieMaybe Is the page directed at Hisstocrat or his battle? And what's so simple about the mechanics of having to be alert to see which snake has a fake plate, or if the snake will attack, or always look for the snake with a power up? I still don't understand what's so simple about it. Sorbetti (talk) contributions 23:39, April 17, 2025 (EDT)

The whole point of the opposition is that the snakes are so minor, there's really no point in giving them a separate article. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:59, April 18, 2025 (EDT)

I repeat, there are pages with much less information that also deal with boss enemies, but we have them too, so you are not against the proposal, you are against the idea of pages like this, which escapes what this proposal seeks. Sorbetti (talk) contributions 09:52, April 18, 2025 (EDT)

So, if I'm against the idea, does that mean everyone else opposing is too? PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:33, April 19, 2025 (EDT)