Talk:List of stages debuting in Super Smash Bros.

Re-split Meta Crystal

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

Split Meta Crystal 12-1
The "Meta Crystal" stage is themed after Metal Mario, and specifically is built from props used in Hazy Maze Cave and the Cavern of the Metal Cap, such as the wire nets and the crystals. While "Meta Crystal" itself is not a location in the Mario games, that's not a thing unique to this one among Smash stages; for instance, there is no location called (or even resembling) "Poké Floats" anywhere in the Pokémon games or other media, that stage is simply an excuse to recycle some static Pokémon Stadium 2 models and call it a stage. Similarly, the "Temple" stage is not based off anywhere specific in The Legend of Zelda series, but is based on a dungeon archetype used in several games (at the time, notably The Adventure of Link, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask), but in practice looks more like a generic Medieval European ruin than anywhere specific in that series. Meta Crystal is no different in that regard, and for that reason I think it should be treated as a Mario-based stage and given its own page here. If The Lake is Mario-based enough to keep its page, then this should be too.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: September 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per
2. TheUndescribableGhost (talk) It's based on the Behind the Waterfall course from Super Mario 64; there's no arguing with this.
3. Hewer (talk) Makes sense based on other things we have split (e.g. Kongo Falls isn't any specific location from the Donkey Kong franchise but is still based on the franchise in general), plus its association with Metal Mario. Per all.
4. Mario (talk) It's a stage that belongs to a Mario character, so, sure, we should probably cover that. Even if I do think the resemblance to Hazy Maze Cave's Behind the Waterfall is not really there, and it lacks an explicit statement it's a Mario stage (unlike other examples brought up), and the stage hasn't reappeared in Smash; even the Omega version of Great Cave Offensive was used as a stand-in for the Metal Mario spirit fight.
5. EvieMaybe (talk) per Hewer
6. SeanWheeler (talk) If it's Metal Mario's stage, that's Mario enough.
7. ThePowerPlayer (talk) The red wire fences and the crystals are a dead giveaway that this is the Hazy Maze Cave, and this stage is therefore a Super Mario stage.
8. Shadow2 (talk) Per all
9. Nintendo101 (talk) Per Hewer's point on Giga Bowser. I also think it should be mentioned on the Hazy-Maze Cave and Cavern of the Metal Cap articles.
10. Scrooge200 (talk) Per all. This is clearly a Mario-inspired stage and it deserves to be separate.
11. Axii (talk) It's a stage derived from the Mario series, not covering it separately creates a gap in the wiki's coverage of the Smash series
12. DryBonesBandit (talk) Per all.

Oppose

1. Ray Trace (talk) Regardless of materials it is built from, this is still a Smash specific stage similar to the likes of Battlefield and Final Destination, not a one based off a Mario game, and thus should still remain here. Plus, its music track is listed as a Super Smash Bros. track in future games than a Mario track.

#Camwoodstock (talk) Honestly, we're a little surprised those specific Subspace levels are still split off. If the literal Mushroom Kingdom stage is merged, we don't see why we should split this one. ;P

Comments

Just letting others know that I'm abstaining since I'm uncertain which option to pick. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:55, August 23, 2024 (EDT)

Are we sure Meta Crystal couldn't have a bit more of a shout out on the Hazy Maze Cave? Because the article currently does not mention it at all and I kinda see it as the equivalent relationship between Synchro Battle Galaxy in Mario & Sonic to Sky Station Galaxy in SMG2. - Nintendo101 (talk) 23:28, August 23, 2024 (EDT)

@Camwood The "literal Mushroom Kingdom stage" isn't merged, though. I don't know where you got that assumption from, but Mushroom Kingdom (Super Smash Bros.) is very much its own page. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:20, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

Given that they were talking about Subspace levels the sentence before, I assumed they meant the literal Mushroom Kingdom stage from the other Adventure Mode, which does NOT have an article here at all, as far as I know, despite the fact that it's 100% a Mario level compared to literally any level in Subspace Emissary. rend (talk) (edits) 08:43, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

It should have a page, per this proposal. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:18, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

And there you have it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:18, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

...nah, we actually just misread the article and were getting sections mixed up. Our apologies. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 11:48, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

@Ray Trace: I don't see how the music track being listed as from Smash changes anything. The games also classify Giga Bowser as being from Smash rather than from Mario. Giga Bowser is original to Smash but based on something from the Mario franchise and thus warrants an article, just like Meta Crystal. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:28, August 24, 2024 (EDT)