MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66

All past proposals are archived here. Please add archived proposals to the bottom of the page.

Previous proposals

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Decide what to move Super Mario Galaxy 2 worlds to

Template:ProposalOutcome The worlds in Super Mario Galaxy 2 have names, but each article for the six main worlds is named "World <#> (Super Mario Galaxy 2)" while the article for the special world is called "World S". The good news is I was wondering if there's a possibility to decide what to rename the worlds. There are four options to choose from:

Option 1

Create the {{suffixed title}}, {{SMG2 world}}, {{SMG2 world-link}}, and {{SMG2 world title}} templates (the {{suffixed title}} template works like {{prefixed title}}, with the small text being placed after the first parameter, while the {{SMG2 world}}, {{SMG2 world-link}}, and {{SMG2 world title}} work like {{classic}}, {{classic-link}}, and {{classic title}} respectively, with the skeleton being "World <#>: <small><name></small> and the example being World 1: The Great Space Journey Begins) and move the following pages to the world number and name:

• • World 1 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 1: The Great Space Journey Begins
  • World 2 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 2: Shooting Through the Stars
  • World 3 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 3: The Far Reaches of the Universe
  • World 4 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 4: The Many Mysteries of the Cosmos
  • World 5 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 5: Trial of the Galaxies
  • World 6 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 6: Bowser in Your Sights
  • World S (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World S: Here We Go!

Option 2

ONLY move the following pages to the world number and name:

• • World 1 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 1: The Great Space Journey Begins
  • World 2 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 2: Shooting Through the Stars
  • World 3 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 3: The Far Reaches of the Universe
  • World 4 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 4: The Many Mysteries of the Cosmos
  • World 5 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 5: Trial of the Galaxies
  • World 6 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World 6: Bowser in Your Sights
  • World S (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → World S: Here We Go!

Option 3

ONLY move the following pages to the name:

• • World 1 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → The Great Space Journey Begins
  • World 2 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → Shooting Through the Stars
  • World 3 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → The Far Reaches of the Universe
  • World 4 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → The Many Mysteries of the Cosmos
  • World 5 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → Trial of the Galaxies
  • World 6 (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → Bowser in Your Sights
  • World S (Super Mario Galaxy 2) → Here We Go! (world)

Option 4

Do nothing.

Proposer: GuntherBB (talk)
Deadline: March 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

1. GuntherBB (talk) My primary choice.

Option 3

1. GuntherBB (talk) My secondary choice.

Option 4

1. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) These names are only displayed on the save file and are not shown while playing the game itself. Even if you go to a different world and save the game, the name on the save file doesn't change and is still the name of the world you should be on. Then there's the fact that when doing the green stars, the save file name is "the green star challenge is on" and when the game is completed 100% the name is "master of galaxies".
2. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per my fellow Bowser
3. YoYo (talk) the names you've assigned to each world are actually the names for the "chapters" in the game's progression, not the names for the worlds themselves. it would be like naming each kingdom from Super Mario Odyssey's page after their first moon.
4. Nintendo101 (talk) These are not the names of the worlds. They are subtitles provided to the player for narrative context.
5. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all, especially the Bowser Bros.
6. OmegaRuby (talk) While the other options would be what I personally use, they are not the actual names of the worlds themselves. Per all.
7. Sdman213 (talk) Per all.
8. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all, especially Nightwicked Bowser and Yoyo. These don't seem to be the worlds' actual names, just a status on the save menu. There's definitely a better way to convey this information about the save menu descriptions than to clumsily bake them into the world pages' names!

Create a {{visible anchor}} template

Template:ProposalOutcome I've come up with an idea for a sub-template for the {{anchor}} template. A {{visible anchor}} retains its behavior like {{anchor}}, with the only difference being that the first parameter will be visible text on the page. You can go here to read the documentation on Wikipedia. Do you have any thoughts that there's a possibility create the {{visible anchor}} template?

Proposer: GuntherBB (talk)
Deadline: March 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT
Date withdrawn: March 17, 2024, 01:45 GMT

Support

1. GuntherBB (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

1. PnnyCrygr (talk) Redundant and unnecessary for a fan wiki which tries not to be like Wikipedia. If that so-called visible anchored is templated onto any link, that should create any visual mess. Enough said...
2. Camwoodstock (talk) This is redundant for our purposes. Per PennyCrygr. This is redundant for our purposes.
3. Hewer (talk) Per all, the proposal makes absolutely no argument as to why we should have this feature and how it would help us beyond "Wikipedia has it".

Stop referring to Bowser as "King Koopa" in Japanese media

Template:ProposalOutcome In articles about Japanese Mario media, we typically refer to Bowser as "King Koopa" for some reason. I think that this naming convention is pointless and we should call Bowser by his actual English name.

One may argue that "King Koopa" is Bowser's Japanese name and therefore he should be named as such. Actually, Bowser's Japanese name is Kuppa (officially romanized as "Koopa") or Daimaō Kuppa (literally "Great Demon King Koopa"), but he is seldom called "King Koopa" verbatim in Japanese media. Most importantly, when referring to characters or species in articles about Japanese-only media, we typically use the usual English name instead of the Japanese name: "Goomba" instead of Kuribō, "Koopa Troopa" instead of Nokonoko, "Toad" instead of Kinopio, and so on. There is no reason why Bowser should be an exception.

One may also argue that the names "Koopa" and "King Koopa" have been used in some English-language Mario media (notably the DIC series). However, the name "Bowser" is overwhelmingly more widespread and was already attested in the original Super Mario Bros. instruction booklet. I hope we can agree that The Super Mario Bros. Super Show is not the highest-priority naming source.

Lastly, this "King Koopa" naming convention is not even consistent on the Wiki because many articles about Japanese-only mangas refer to Bowser as "Bowser" rather than "King Koopa".

If this proposal passes, mentions of Bowser as "King Koopa" or simply "Koopa" will be replaced with "Bowser" in articles about Japanese media, including:

• Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!
• Amada Anime Series: Super Mario Bros.
• Super Mario World: Mario to Yoshi no Bōken Land

This renaming will not apply to English-language media in which Bowser is actually called "King Koopa".

Proposer: Jdtendo (talk)
Deadline: March 27, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Jdtendo (talk) Per proposal.
2. PnnyCrygr (talk) We shouldn't use the uncanon DiC cartoons as name sources for Mario characters.
3. Sparks (talk) Per all.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) My name is American Koopa! (Per all)
5. Hewer (talk) Didn't know this was a thing but it's inconsistent with the wiki's preference for English names so per proposal.
6. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) We need consistency within the wiki! Per all.
7. OmegaRuby (talk) Consistency is a priority. Per all.
8. Scrooge200 (talk) Always found this a bit confusing because it just perpetuates an old name nobody uses anymore. Per all.

Comments

What about referring to Princess Peach by that name in early Japanese media? If this passes, it would seem more consistent to change those to "Princess Toadstool" since that was her English name at the time. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:43, March 20, 2024 (EDT)

We could still refer to Princess Peach by that name considering that it is her usual name in English nowadays. I don't think it is that relevant to be faithful to the English names that were used at the time in the USA considering those names do not appear in the actual Japanese media; and if that is actually relevant, that could always be the subject of a later proposal. Jdtendo^(T|C) 10:42, March 20, 2024 (EDT)

Broaden the scope of the {{unreferenced}} template

Template:ProposalOutcome Like everyone in the Super Mario Wiki said, "We are not Wikipedia." I humbly ask if there's a possibility to broaden the scope of the {{unreferenced}} template.

The template currently reads as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#FC5;border:1px solid #f22">
This {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} '''does not [[MarioWiki:Citations|cite any sources]]'''. Please help {{plain link|1=[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}]}} by [[MarioWiki:Citations#How to add references|adding citations from reliable sources]]. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
</div>

This article does not cite any sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations from reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.

However, once the proposal passes, the template will read as follows:

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#FC5;border:1px solid #f22">
It has been requested that at least one '''[[MarioWiki:Citations#How to add references|citation from a reliable source]]''' be added to this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}.<br><small>This {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} should not cite any unsourced material. See the [[MarioWiki:Citations|citation policy]] for more information.</small>
</div>

It has been requested that at least one citation from a reliable source be added to this article.
This article should not cite any unsourced material. See the citation policy for more information.

That way, the {{unreferenced}} template will read differently from Wikipedia's {{unreferenced}} template.

Proposer: GuntherBB (talk)
Deadline: April 5, 2024, 23:59 GMT
Date withdrawn: March 31, 2024, 03:49 GMT

Support

1. GuntherBB (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

1. Koopa con Carne (talk) If a page needs more citations on top of the existing one(s), just use {{ref needed}} to mark the uncited stuff.
2. YoYo (talk) per Koopa.
3. Ahemtoday (talk) Per Koopa.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per KCC--we probably don't need a template that's simultaneously more and less specific when we can simply use ref needed to clearly and concisely convey exactly what needs a citation.
5. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all of yall (collectively)
6. OhoJeeOnFire (talk) Per all.
7. Nintendo101 (talk) I appreciate that you reached out to me specifically, but unless I am missing something, I do not really see why this would be an improvement.

Comments

this might just be one of the most difficult to read proposals i have seen on this site, its a real struggle to look at. is there a chance of tidying it up dramatically - YoYo (Talk) 13:54, March 29, 2024 (EDT)

I cleaned it up, just so you know. Once the proposal passes, I'd recommend removing the <!-- and --> tags. GuntherBayBeee 19:53, March 29, 2024 (EDT)

Never mind. I had to clean the proposal up again by adding the <pre> tags. You should take a look at what the template will look like from above.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by GuntherBB (talk). 20:06, March 29, 2024

@Koopa con Carne @YoYo @Ahemtoday @Camwoodstock @MegaBowser64 @OhoJeeOnFire like I said, I cleaned up my proposal by adding the <pre> tags AND changing its name from "Broaden the scope of the {{unreferenced}} template and/or create the {{more citations needed}} template" "Broaden the scope of the {{Unreferenced}} template". What do you think how my proposal from above looks? GuntherBayBeee 21:37, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

This is not related to the proposal itself but I see that you sent the same talk page message to so many users at once, including myself about this proposal. I'm not super skilled with template codes and such, so I won't vote in it. I just thought I'd mention the message. Sparks (talk) 21:52, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

@Nintendo101 I think I know why broadening the scope would be an improvement. It's because of what Wayoshi said to A Link to the Past: "We are not Wikipedia."
The preceding unsigned comment was added by GuntherBB (talk).

A bit of clarification on our vote: Just because we are not Wikipedia doesn't mean we have to do things differently from how Wikipedia does them. While we have our petty, personal beef with Wikipedia (mostly about their comically dated "notability" guidelines), they aren't always wrong, and this is one such case where we feel they nailed the Wiki design on the head; for all intents and purposes, {{ref needed}} is better than any of these templates to us. It's more precise, it's more concise, and most importantly, it's what people--both on this wiki and from other wikis--know best. (This is also why we're not updating our vote, though we do appreciate the proposal being made easier to read.) ~Camwoodstock (talk) 23:28, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

Forbid the use of images without captioning them

Template:ProposalOutcome This proposal aims to ban the use of images without captions, both in text and galleries. It's for a similar reason as why one should add a reason when adding a maintenance template, and without it, unfamiliar readers may ask themselves, "What's the subject? What does it do? What's it trying to illustrate?"

I looked around for an example, and I'll use the Icicle page. Quite a few sections add sprites without captioning them. While the section heading alone would be enough to suggest that it's a sprite from the game, additional context could be at risk of being left out. Mario Bros. has been re-released many times, so when I see the icicle sprite, I may ask myself, "What version is it from? The arcade? The NES? The Game Boy Advance?" While it's true that sprites can't easily display captions, due to being small images, there could be a way to make it easier to caption them.

This problem also applies to infoboxes. On the Itsunomanika Heihō page, what's going on in the infobox image? There's so many things in it, and it doesn't make clear who Itsunomanika Heihō is, which is the Shy Guy.

On a bit of a side note, too many articles have images that feel added in the text just for the sake of adding images, and captionless images seem among them. Why does the Lubba page have three images in the Super Mario Galaxy 2 section? Are they essential enough to be included or could they just be addendums to a gallery? Two of the images are just Lubba saying a quote, something that's hardly as much of interest as, let's say, Mario's first meeting with Lubba. Should this proposal pass, perhaps a separate proposal, or a precedent, could be set for tightening the use of images in article sections unless they are plot-essential, show a major difference between games, or for historical context, such as when something first appeared.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: April 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

#Super Mario RPG (talk) As proposer.

Oppose

1. Tails777 (talk) Forbidding is a strong conclusion if you ask me. Simply adding a caption or moving images to a gallery is enough rather than just outright forbidding a captionless image.
2. JanMisali (talk) Per Tails777. This would be a pretty big policy change, and it would be better to handle it on a case-by-case basis.
3. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) It's really not a big deal at all if there are a few images without captions. If you think one is necessary, then there's nothing stopping you from adding one but making this a strict policy is going too far.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all; we really ought to take these on a case-by-case basis, as while some of these instances are not clear like the Mario Bros. Icicle image... Other captionless images on that very same article, like the Mario Clash Icicle are very much clear enough as-is since Clash only ever had one platform it released on. And the Itsunomanika Heihō infobox really just needs a new image outright if you ask us; if the image used cropped out the Bandit and Baby Mario and giant in-game arrow pointing at them, leaving the Shy Guy on Yoshi's back as the focal point, you'd fix the vast majority of the clarity issues. (of course, don't go updating the image itself, as it's used on other articles, instead this'd have to be a new image.)
5. PnnyCrygr (talk) Best add a caption to the image sans caption, or just move it to a gallery page. Per all.
6. Scrooge200 (talk) Per all, a blanket ban on uncaptioned images would do more harm than good. It'd be better to just fix the cases that are unclear.
7. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Abso-huckin'-lutely not. The amount of times I've had to remove a caption from a tiny, tiny image that can't even support a caption I can't even count.
8. YoYo (talk) oh please. i dont think i need to explain - but the comment below does perfectly.
9. Hewer (talk) Per all, some images needing captions doesn't mean they all do.
10. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per all. Also see the comments; trying to add a caption to a tiny game sprite says it all.
11. Arend (talk) Yeah no, per all. Some images are just too tiny to add a caption to (tiny images being something this Icicle article that's being brought up is chock full of), but also too essential for a section to be outright removed. Doc perfectly demonstrates that in the comment section.
12. Mario (talk) The ideal way to proceed with this is either make caption interesting or remove the caption and let the image do the talking.
13. MegaBowser64 (talk) We should be working on captioning images that need it, not putting an umbrella ban over every image! This idea is more destructive that constructive, images are always good for context, even if they don't have written context themselves.
14. FanOfYoshi (talk) As Don Lino from Shark Tale said it best... "Are you kidding me, are you outta your MIND?!". Per all.
15. Nintendo101 (talk) Image captions are generally helpful, but one would find that published textbooks do not even do this consistently, and for good reason. An image can sometimes be confidently contextualized just by the text it is next to. To impose a rule like this can potentially worsen some articles. Additionally, I think a rule like this is too heavy-handed and weakens our editorial discretion.
16. Mister Wu (talk) As noted by Doc, our current modus operandi with the sprites directly collides with this policy, and redoing all the sprites at double or triple the resolution in every axis just to make the caption readable is time consuming and arguably not even that correct in terms of presenting what the sprite originally looked like.
17. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) Per all. Point made, I think.
18. Sparks (talk) Per all.
19. Sdman213 (talk) Per all.
20. SeanWheeler (talk) If an image needs a caption, add the caption yourself. Don't remove good images just because they were captionless. Especially not small sprites. Per all.

Comments

In what universe is this even remotely acceptable? You can't even read it!

Please tell me how the image to the left is ideal. Because that's what this proposal's trying for. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:52, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

In my argument in the proposal, I was talking about like a template or something that could use captions in such cases. Multiframe now comes to mind. Super Mario RPG (talk) 18:08, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

Which adds a lot of dead space in the image space itself. I'm fine with using that when they'd blend with the default background (see: Spray Fish), but using them for captions is superfluous. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:36, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, padded whitespace makes the page look relatively bigger when actually there is no content. It sucks for an article to have superfluous space created by overly long captions in floated tiny images. When creating an article, an article should look nice.  ^P_nn^yC_ryg^r  18:39, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

I want to revisit this proposal to ask about the Icicle example... you say that a lack of caption would result in additional context being left out, to which I ask.... what additional context is there to a sprite of an icicle? Adding captions would simply make it extremely repetitive. "An icicle in Super Mario Bros 3" ... "An icicle in Super Mario World" ... "An icicle in..." and so on. - YoYo (Talk) 10:27, March 29, 2024 (EDT)

TBF the game Mario Bros. has a slew of versions across different systems, so in that particular icicle example it'd be beneficial to state which version it comes from. Not even the sprite's file page states the exact source. If it's a small sprite, surely there's some parameter that widens its frame to fit a caption, right? I could be wrong. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 13:41, March 29, 2024 (EDT)

In that case, alt text would probably be preferable. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:22, March 29, 2024 (EDT)

For the Mario Bros. section in specific, I think it would be beneficial to apply a Multiframe in order to include Icicle sprites across all applicable versions of Mario Bros. (similar to what's done with the Super Mario Maker section). We'd probably have to scour through many spritesheets for that, since this wiki seemingly only has the icicle sprite from the arcade version.
As for the other sections that only include a sprite, I agree that including a caption to those might also be too repetitive, on top of the image being too small. rend (talk) (edits) 07:04, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

Trim Super Smash Bros. navigational templates

Template:ProposalOutcome Over time, this wiki has, with good reason, significantly reduced its coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series. However, as has been the subject of multiple other proposals, there are a lot of vestigial remnants left over from when Smash still received full coverage.

One of the most prominent and blatant cases of this is found in the Super Smash Bros. navigational templates, namely Template:SSB, Template:SSB moves, Template:SSBM, Template:SSBM moves, Template:SSB4, Template:SSB4 moves, Template:SSBU, and Template:SSBU moves.

Each of these templates contains links to subjects that no longer have dedicated articles, and take the reader to a subsection of a list article instead. The "move" templates are especially rough, since the majority of Smash Bros. moves are no longer even covered on the articles that these links redirect to. I propose that these navigational templates should be significantly trimmed down, much like the ongoing efforts to clean up the various "series" categories.

Furthermore, without the unnecessary links to subjects that no longer are within this wiki's scope, having moves in a separate template from the main navigational template for those games may no longer be necessary, so it might also make sense to remove the "move" templates entirely, moving the links to Super Mario-related Smash Bros. moves to the main Smash navigational templates.

Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Deadline: April 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Remove all redirect links from Super Smash Bros. navigational templates

1. JanMisali (talk) Second choice, per proposal.

Remove all redirect links from Super Smash Bros. navigational templates and delete the "move" templates entirely

1. JanMisali (talk) First choice, per proposal.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) Honestly surprised this hasn't been done sooner. Per all.
3. Koopa con Carne (talk) per proposal
4. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
5. Super Mario RPG (talk) Please do. The excessive amounts of Super Smash Bros. coverage is a huge pet peeve of mine, since it hinders accessibility for Super Mario content.
6. LadySophie17 (talk) Per all, thank you very much.
7. Mushzoom (talk) Per all.
8. SeanWheeler (talk) A navbox full of redirects to the same page would be pointless.
9. OmegaRuby (talk) Shocked that this hasn't been done yet, thought it would've been done alongside Super Smash Bros. content being trimmed in general. Per all.

Comments

You forgot the navigational templates for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Template:SSBB and Template:SSBB moves. SolemnStormcloud (talk) 12:11, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

Ah, so I did. Yes, those would also be covered by this. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 13:15, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

Preserve April Fools' Proposals in BJAODN

Template:ProposalOutcome First of all, no, this isn't a delayed April Fool's joke--we are being 100% sincere about this proposal! You know it because we waited until after we had squared away the April Fool's proposals to actually bring this up formally.

Secondly, this has been discussed before, not once but twice, and the consensus at the time was basically "it's pointless and not that funny, so why bother?" ...As you can imagine, we're not a fan of either of these stances, so we have a brief overview of our counter-arguments to these statements.

• On pointlessness: Yes, archiving these in BJAODN is pointless! ...But so is the rest of BJAODN, and, paradoxically, that's kind of the point of it--that it's basically useless and for amusement only. The only "practical" thing it has are archives for the big April Fool's pages we create. The one and only time it was ever gearing up to have a "point" was to store Wario's Warehouse back when people still didn't believe it existed--then the author stepped up and said "yep, that's my work", and that entire thing was rendered moot, and BJAODN remains a mere archive for April Fool's things and, well, other deleted nonsense.
• On the humor: On the "not that funny once April Fool's is done" thing--we feel like it's kinda weird to dismiss a proposal on something that is inherently, a subjective take. Humor is notoriously fickle between different people; one person's complete snorefest is another person's knee-slapper. Sure, not all April Fool's proposals are these complete gut-busters, but neither is everything else in BJAODN. And heck, even if they aren't that funny, it's kind of in the name; it's not "Deleted Nonsense", it's "Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense".

Especially in the wake of the effective renaissance of April Fool's proposals we had this year (no doubt due in part to a rather-timely proposal about April Fool's proposals, albeit moreso about denoting them as such pre-emptively), we feel it pertinent to possibly figure something out for this sooner, rather than later, while the concept's still fresh in everyone's mind. To this end, we've come up with three ideas:

• Give it its own subpage per year: Whenever there's an arbitrary amount of April Fool's proposals for that year (let's say "3" for the time being, if this number needs to be adjusted we can do so later), we create a subpage alongside our main April Fool's archive page for proposals. If there aren't enough, they just go in the standard Proposals subpage for BJAODN--if memory serves, this means that 2021 and 2024 will get a subpage so far, though we may be wrong.
• All of them go to the Proposals subpage: Roughly the same as above, but in every case we send them to the standard Proposals subpage with no potential for splits. We do worry about this year in particular clogging the heck out of the page, but whatever works.
• Do nothing: We simply don't formally track these whatsoever in BJAODN, simple-as.

Proposer: Camwoodstock (talk)
Deadline: April 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support, with additional subpages

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Our preferred option--keep the silliness alive, and keep it nice and tidy for the future.
2. Sparks (talk) Having tidiness makes for easier navigation.
3. SolemnStormcloud (talk) hotpink (Per proposal.)
4. Tails777 (talk) It's completely understandable that humor is subjective, but let's remember to look at it from another angle; it's not always about if the joke proposal is funny, it's also about how we as users interact with each other and the jokes that adds to the humor. That was my initial support reason back during back during this proposal (which, I do realize, wasn't exactly the point of the proposal, but let's not worry about that). My main point is, I one hundred percent support archiving our April Fool's joke proposals for the sake of celebrating our fun interactions with each other as people! Per proposal!
5. Power Flotzo (talk) This is an excellent option and probably why we haven't archived as many of these joke proposals in the past. Per everyone else.
6. BMfan08 (talk) There's no fooling about this one. Per all.
7. FanOfYoshi (talk) Yoshi Yoshi! (Per all. Also, i always wanted this to happen)
8. Arend (talk) We preserve April Fool's Day archives, we preserve funnily bad proposals, why not April Fool's Day proposals? It's a lot better than scouring through countless pages of the Proposal page's revision history (and that's with 500 revisions per page in mind too).
9. OmegaRuby (talk) We haven't done this already? Per all.
10. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) YES PLEASE!
11. Hewer (talk) Per all
12. PnnyCrygr (talk) Yeah, now the joke proposals will have a repo place to stay! (why is the vote #1?)
13. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Humorous remark goes here. Per all.
14. Waddle D33 (talk) I just spent the last half hour or so reading and appreciating the articles in the BJAODN section. Anyway, I agree that BJAODN would be a good home for those types of jokes.
15. SeanWheeler (talk) Might as well archive these April Fools' proposals for someone who is interested.
16. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) Oh, yes please!! I liked the last ones! Even though it took me a minute to figure out that they were joke proposals, I still like them! (I still want my Super Smash Bros. Ultimate cheeseburger....)
17. JanMisali (talk) Per all.

Support, all to the same subpage

1. Camwoodstock (talk) Secondary option--we do worry about the page growing too long for this, but it'd make sense for the time being.

Comments

Is there any chance that the April Fools' proposals be merged with the April Fools' prank of that year? For example, all of the 2024 April Fools' proposals can be merged with MarioWiki:BJAODN/April Fool's 2024. Sparks (talk) 19:47, April 2, 2024 (EDT)

Usually, when the main prank is moved to BJAODN, its corresponding pages are stored as their own subpage--for example, Mushroom Kingdom Hearts is kept on its own page, rather than being melded to the Main Page archive. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 19:53, April 2, 2024 (EDT)

Okay. That makes sense. Subpages could work for the proposals then. Sparks (talk) 19:55, April 2, 2024 (EDT)

For reference, after looking at page history, the years that had at least three joke proposals were 2018 with exactly three (or four?), 2019 with five, 2020 with nine, 2021 with five (including one that already got archived which we'd have to move), and 2024 with ten, so they'd all get their own subpages, and there was also one April Fools' proposal each in 2010 and 2023 (the former got immediately deleted though). Three of the four pie proposals in the main archive were technically April Fools' as well, unsure whether those should count. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:07, April 3, 2024 (EDT)

You are the unsung hero of this proposal. We'd say if this passes in its current state, the Pie proposals that weren't tied to the aforementioned years should probably remain on the standard BJAODN Proposals section. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 14:57, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts

Template:ProposalOutcome Currently, several articles exist for characters from Super Mario Bros. (1993) that share names with and are to some extent based on corresponding characters from the source material. While from a certain perspective this makes sense (these characters are substantially different from the characters they're based on), no other non-game-compliant Mario adaptation is given this treatment. SMW:CANON suggests that all official sources should be treated equally, including in cases when these sources contradict each other. I believe that the 1993 film is a very clear case when this applies, and I propose that some if not all of these articles should be merged with their corresponding game characters.

Now, to this one might suggest: "But the characters from the 1993 film really are canonically not the same in-universe people as their game counterparts! Doesn't that mean they should be covered separately?" The thing is, that's not how this wiki treats different versions of the same character in any other instance. The article Donkey Kong covers the character Donkey Kong, including in games where that character is "canonically" Cranky Kong. Paper Mario (character) is only considered a separate character from Mario in the very specific case where the two characters coexist alongside each other. Two works of media portraying different iterations of the same character is seemingly always treated as being the same character, and the coverage of Super Mario Bros. (1993) is a strange exception to this.

The relevant articles are:

• Film characters very directly based on specific characters from the source material:
  • Mario (film character)
  • Luigi (film character)
  • Yoshi (film character)
  • President Koopa (to be potentially merged with Bowser)
  • King (film character) (to be potentially merged with Mushroom King)
• Film characters based more loosely on specific characters from the source material:
  • Toad (film character)
  • Princess Daisy (film character)
  • Iggy (film character) (to be potentially merged with Iggy Koopa)
• Film characters based on enemies from the source material:
  • Spike (film character)
  • Big Bertha (film character)
• Film species based on enemies from the source material:
  • Goomba (film species)
  • Snifit (film species)

Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Deadline: April 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to April 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Merge all Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts

1. JanMisali (talk) First choice, per proposal.
2. Mario (talk) Echoing my sentiments in my 2016 proposal[1] a bit (tho I promise to be less grouchy :O}D). Even with the filmmmaker's contrived notion that live action movie Mario is supposed to be a separate entity from Mario from the Mario Kart series, if you work with that logic backward, they're still variants of each other, basically two different takes of the Mario the Super Brother. This can extend for the other characters. That being said, some of the target pages articles are big enough as they are already but I s'pose that's a different problem irrelevant to the logic of these pages.
3. Super Mario RPG (talk) Keeping the coverage on the same article reflects how they're the same thing. Different entity doesn't necessarily mean different subject. If anything, separate articles on the film characters would set an unwelcome precedent for scattering information of like, let's say, Super Mario-kun or Super Mario Bros. Movie counterparts of Mario into separate articles, which we'd want to avoid.
4. SolemnStormcloud (talk) I think it's best to not be arbitrary with who gets merged or not based on how different they are from their "main" counterpart. Per all.
5. Ahemtoday (talk) Maybe I could work with this kind of continuity-based differentiation in a series with, like, any sense of continuity, but I don't really think the Mario series has that.
6. Camwoodstock (talk) We think this makes the most sense, and in the name of consistency, what we do to one, we should probably do to all. Besides, it's not like the 1993 movie is even the first time that a different entity has used the name of a pre-existing entity--though unlike things like G(al)oombas, the 1993 movie incarnations stand alone, with only things like gags in mangas deciding that the movie incarnations are different from the original characters (such as what happened to Yoshi)--and even in those cases, it's pretty clearly not part of some deep lore for the film itself. We hope this rationale makes sense, anyways? As we write this we're a tad tired, so if you need clarification, just ask politely.
7. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I forgot I hadn't voted. I prefer this option. I'd be fine with the other popular option (for now), aside from questioning why Toad is part of the exclusions.

Merge most of these, but keep Spike, Big Bertha, Goomba, and Snifit separate from the enemies they're based on

1. JanMisali (talk) Third choice, per proposal.

Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate

1. JanMisali (talk) Second choice, per proposal.
2. Hewer (talk) I agree with merging the more obviously game-inspired characters like Mario and Luigi where the split feels more like a vestige of the wiki's former obsession with its made-up idea of canon, but merging characters like Iggy and Spike where pretty much the only thing in common is the name with (to my knowledge) little indication they're even based on the game characters doesn't feel right. EDIT: I agree with DrippingYellow's comment about how the King and Mushroom King shouldn't be merged though, since their only similarity is that they're both kings, but that can be dealt with in another proposal.
3. Arend (talk) I'm most hesitant about merging Daisy. As you know, Daisy is pretty much the movie's equivalent of Princess Toadstool, and in a previous concept, was even named Hildy/Heidi/whichever of the two it was. Had that name not been changed to Daisy, many would obviously argue to merge it with Princess Peach instead. I would also say that it's pretty bizarre to have one of the two bumbling henchmen be based on a Koopaling while the other is based on a random enemy, instead of both being based on a Koopaling (we got seven of those guys; they couldn't have called the other henchman "Larry"?); not to mention that this version of Toad was once called Lemmy (another Koopaling).
4. Tails777 (talk) Leaning more on this idea. There are the obvious ones, but I think the ones holding me back from an all out merge are Spike and Big Bertha, as they seem way different compared to what they are supposedly based off of (also the Iggy one feels a bit off to merge with the Koopaling).
5. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per all
6. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Secondary choice; per proposal.
7. Archivist Toadette (talk) I think I'd rather go with this option, since those particular subjects have too little overlap with their game "counterparts". Besides, how would a carnivorous freshwater fish share clear commonality with an...uncomfortably attractive humanoid being?
8. OmegaRuby (talk) Per all, Archivist Toadette especially.
9. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all of yall (collectively)
10. DrippingYellow (talk) Say what you will about trying not to separate variations of characters, even in media with notable differences from the "main canon" (i.e. Super Show and Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen), these characters still have recognizable attributes. Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi certainly fit the bill of mere variations, but others I'm a little more icky on, with this lining up most easily with my opinions. With the film being designed to be a deliberate departure from other Mario material, it makes sense not to merge film characters unless they have significantly overlapping roles with their game counterparts. (e.g. Goombas are still the front-line weaklings, Yoshi is still held captive by Koopa and has a long tongue...)
    The only merges I entirely disagree with here are the Snifits (who don't shoot bullets at all, and, if I had to guess, had their name chosen just because they "sniff 'it' (the garbage)"). As well as the King because... umm... he's not the king of the mushroom kingdom, nor Peach's father? I don't even get this connection to be honest. Nevertheless, I'm willing to wait it out to change those if this passes, because something something two-party system...
11. Jdtendo (talk) Mario and Luigi have some similarities with their video game counterparts, but Toad, Iggy and Spike have nothing in common with their namesake, Big Bertha is way too different to the fish she is based on, and Daisy seems more like "Princess Toadstool but we called her Daisy because "Toadstool" is not a given name".
12. Biggestman (talk) I agree with all above points, however if there was an option to also keep President Koopa split I would vote for that, he's literally just not the same guy in the movie in any way whatsoever.

Other

1. LinkTheLefty (talk) Considering all of the "History of X" articles that have been written, why don't we keep the separate articles, but rebrand them as "History of X in Super Mario Bros. (1993)"? Maybe down the road, if Illumination gets enough content, we'll think about if we want to do "History of X in film" or "History of X in cartoons/television" or something. This'll satisfy the proposal's condition while lightening the load. Plus, this'll save the headache of merging the character infoboxes (unless the idea was to keep them intact in film sections).

Do nothing

1. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) While I completely understand and agree with MarioWiki:Canonicity and the points stated above, I just don't want these to be merged at all. All of the characters mentioned are very different from their game counterparts, and many characters that are non-human in the video games are at least partially human in the movie (like Bowser (video game character) and King Koopa (movie "counterpart"). This is enough for me to not want to merge any of the pages.
2. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per FOR2007.
3. SeanWheeler (talk) The 1993 movie was an awful adaptation that changed too much. I would want Bob Hoskins' Mario to remain separate from the the games' Mario. President Koopa is clearly very different from Bowser.
4. LinkTheLefty (talk) I'm still okay with this, too. I know we don't make canonical judgments, but when creatives do on the rare occasion, that's where I think we should stand. After all, "This Ain't No Game." Per myself in the old proposal.
5. Pseudo (talk) Per LinkTheLefty.

Comments

Haven't decided on an option but I will at least link the original proposal that split them. Nightwicked Bowser 19:18, April 4, 2024 (EDT)

It's interesting to read through this old discussion, especially how much the focus at the time seems to have been on specifically Daisy. Nobody in this whole proposal or the "Peach/Daisy in Film" proposal before it ever suggests the idea of giving specifically Mario (film character) a separate article! I wonder how that happened. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:05, April 4, 2024 (EDT)

https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Remerge_most_Super_Mario_Bros._film_information
Here is my attempt that ended up being vetoed. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 20:01, April 4, 2024 (EDT)

Did this need to be one huge proposal? The fact that there are seven options as well as an "Other" option (which, how would that even work if it got the most votes?) suggests to me that the Mario Bros. movie live-action subjects have far too much range in how close they are to their OG counterparts for this to be resolved in one seven-day proposal. For instance, I mostly agree with the fifth option, except for the inclusion of the King among the merged characters (considering that unlike the Mushroom King, he is neither the king of the Mushroom Kingdom nor Peach's father (he's Daisy's father)).
If we were to add options for every little disagreement with the proposal author's reasoning in this particular instance, it would become a nightmare to try and find an appropriate option to vote on. I'd suggest splitting the proposal based on character roles (e.g. one for main characters, one for minor characters like Yoshi, one for creatures like Goombas, and one for references-in-name-only like Toad, Big Bertha, etc.) DrippingYellow (talk) 13:36, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

I would argue that range from source material isn't much of a factor in so much as they're variants of a source character and my understanding is that we do sometimes merge whack variants of the same entity, such as Skeeters. I'd go for the straightforward option because I don't see much merit debating within gradience of who gets a separate article or not. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 13:56, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

I'd still argue that there's a point where it's not so much a variant as it is an entirely new character that only uses an existing character name as a callback. The film's plot provides a framework for this, considering it is loosely based off of the Mario games' story: Princess Daisy is the damsel-in-distress, Koopa is the antagonist who kidnaps her, Goombas are his lackeys, Yoshi is a dinosaur with a long tongue who is also held captive by Koopa, and Mario and Luigi are the heroes. Those are definitely a variation of standard Mario features.
However, then there are characters like Big Bertha who shares no similarities with her namesake other than being... well, big. Not to mention she should probably stay split anyway considering normal Big Bertha is an enemy species, while this Big Bertha is a unique character. Spike at the very least should also be split for similar reasons. Big Bertha's connection to her original inspiration would at least be more plausible if, for example, she was a marine biologist or had a scene where she saved Mario from drowning or something. I'm a little more inclined to merge Toad, since he gives exposition about the fungus (which would line up with the original character's appearance), but then again, he was originally named Lemmy, so the connection there may not have been intentional. And as for the King vs. the Mushroom King, the Mushroom King article is a catch-all for anytime the king of the Mushroom Kingdom. To include a King in that article who exists in a continuity where there is no Mushroom Kingdom seems a little odd. DrippingYellow (talk) 14:43, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

To be fair, we can't think of how else to showcase the granularity of the options than the deluge of choices; short of something like a checkbox-esque "vote for this one if you think it should be split!" proposal, which is entirely unprecedented and we have no real way of handling. Is it clunky? Yes. But it's either this, a bunch of standalone proposals (which could get even more messy), or some entirely new form of proposal gets invented just to handle this. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 14:57, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

I don't really see how the standalone option would make things messier. Is it that hard to keep track of multiple proposals? The choice would be between that or a list of options that is either unreadably long or doesn't have an option that aligns with your opinion due to something like an assumption by the author. DrippingYellow (talk) 21:29, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

By the by, what's this version of Spike called in the Japanese localization of the film? I think that's important to ask because we do in fact have another Spike in this franchise, one who is decidedly NOT called "Gabon" in Japanese, ever. rend (talk) (edits) 15:58, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

On the contrary, the thought has crossed my mind to go in the other direction and have something done with the Paper Mario universe and characters, but it'd probably be controversial. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:21, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

Strongly disagree, the arguments against all hold. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:51, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

I would oppose covering all Paper Mario appearances in the Paper character articles and I would also oppose merging them all with their regular counterparts. Nightwicked Bowser 17:25, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

You see, while the 1993 Mario movie characters are drastically different from their mainline game counterparts (or namesakes), the same cannot be said about the Paper Mario characters, which stay relatively close to the source material in comparison. Sure, the first three games gave most enemies a couple of design quirks that stand out from the mainline games, but they are still recognizable as those enemies.
Same deal with the 2023 Mario movie counterparts; they have some differences, but are still clear and recognizable as the same characters. rend (talk) (edits) 17:41, April 5, 2024 (EDT)

I never really nailed down how it would work, but wouldn't be as full splits. Maybe something along the lines of how we now have "History" articles split from their sections. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:45, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Regarding Iggy, unused scripts on the SMBMovieArchive website show that originally, there were other Koopaling-named characters (like Morton and Wendy as announcers), showing Iggy was an intentional reference. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 06:31, April 8, 2024 (EDT)

But still, being named after another character doesn't necessarily make them the same character given how otherwise completely different they are, especially considering what's already been brought up about how characters like Toad were originally named differently. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:13, April 8, 2024 (EDT)

This needs looked into some more as I can't remember for certain, but I seem to recall the script referring to the generic Dinohattan police officers as Koopa Troopas (a variation of that name was given to Goombas in earlier development). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:59, April 9, 2024 (EDT)

@Doc von Schmeltwick: As Arend mentioned, the character that ended up being "Toad" was originally called Lemmy, which to me feels like evidence that the inspiration doesn't extend beyond the name, and merging based on that alone would be a strange choice. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:45, April 10, 2024 (EDT)

Aside from being an ally. The "good Goomba" character at that point in the script rewrites was a separate character named "Hark," anyway, and there were other associated "freedom fighter"-type characters in addition to the one who is Toad in the final. Also, he was called "Toad" first, with "Lemmy" being used for a single draft in mid-production. In the first "Wizard of Oz"-style draft, he had basically the same role Toad would be given in the more recent movie, but drifted slowly from that as rewrites occured. He is still, therefore, primarily derived from the games' Toad. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:14, April 10, 2024 (EDT)

@LinkTheLefty: Considering the "History of <x character> in <the cartoons they appear in>" articles are still waiting for their cigarette and tinder box before their execution via categorization as much as we deeply, deeply regret that proposal, we don't exactly see a "History of <x character> in Just The 1993 Movie" turning out well, unfortunately. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 10:46, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Template:Quote2 Well, before you extended the proposal, there were 19 voting users in total, if I'm not mistaken, and according to rule 9, more than half of the total amount of voters (in this case, more than 9.5 voters) must show up in a single voting option. If I get that right, that means at least 1 voting option must have more than 9.5 votes... and uh, the "Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate" section has 10 votes, meaning that must have won.
However, you decided to vote too while extending the proposal, meaning that there's now 20 voting users, and the "Merge most of these, but keep Toad, Princess Daisy, Iggy, Spike, and Big Bertha separate" section now requires more than 10 votes... thus, 11.
Since you decided to cast in votes alongside extending the proposal, when it should have enough results to not require an extension, I'm honestly not sure if we should end the proposal now and remove subsequent votes and comments from prior the extension, or keep the extension for another week. rend (talk) (edits) 18:00, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Overhaul titles of generic-named level/course/stage pages

Template:ProposalOutcome With the recent release of the Nintendo Switch remake of Mario vs. Donkey Kong, we have already seen the introduction of two new worlds - Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit, as well as their plus variants. However, while I was documenting levels for the remake, I have noticed an issue - since these worlds also change the numbering for Spooky House, Mystic Forest, and Twilight City's level pages, this causes several concerns for me in regards to naming level articles with generic-named stage numberings in games where worlds are named:

• Right now, the level numberings for the various levels in Mario vs. Donkey Kong are correspondent to the GBA version. If I attempt to move those pages to match the Switch numbering (for example: "Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)" (Spooky House 4-1) to "Level 5-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)" (Spooky House 5-1, Switch version)), this can cause several issues with us cleaning up all the links to other level pages, and is especially the case for links to various Mystic Forest (5-x > 7-x) and Spooky House (4-x > 5-x) pages.
• Related to above, the new Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit pages have a slightly conjectural variation of the game's title. Take a look at this for example: "Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch)", aka the first stage of Merry Mini-Land.
  • As a reminder: nowhere in any circumstance has the remake been titled "Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch", it is simply titled "Mario vs. Donkey Kong". It could be seen as confusing especially as there are some reissues of games that are officially titled the same way too (like Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS).
  • I attempted to get around this by initially naming the title of the article as "Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch))", but it caused issues with rendering the title on top of the page.

What I wanted to propose is to overhaul the titles of generic-named level/course/stage pages. Level articles that fall under this description are:

• Levels with generic numbering identifiers in worlds that are not named in any circumstance (including in-game and supplementary material like Nintendo Power). Example is World 1-1 in Super Mario Bros..
• Levels with generic numbering identifiers in named worlds. Examples include Level 1-1 in Mario Toy Company (from Mario vs. Donkey Kong), and World 2-3 in Desert Land/Desert Hill from Super Mario Bros. 3.
• Levels with names do not count, regardless if the world is named. This is true for various levels in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (Make Eggs, Throw Eggs). These article names are kept as is.

Given that there are a lot of generic-named level articles that fall under this jurisdiction, this is a very large-scale proposal, and may affect most, if not all "x-x" level articles. This will require help from the wiki's higher staff, especially an administrator who can handle several article renames and moves at large. Due to this, please note that the effects of the proposal may not be always guaranteed to be immediate even if it is already passed, but I hope to get this done with everyone as soon as possible.

After brainstorming for a while, these are the possible formats we're going to aim for when making level pages, see below.

Option 1: "(World/Game Name) - (Level Code)"

This is the new page naming format for levels which is based on the naming format used for WiKirby (note for reference: levels in the Kirby series are called "stages", while worlds are called "levels".) Examples of articles on WiKirby that follow this format are Cookie Country - Stage 1 (Level 1-1 or Stage 1 of Cookie Country in Kirby's Return to Dream Land), and Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble - Lvl 7-2 in Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble.

This makes it easier to update a level's numbering designation should any circumstances of adding new worlds in-between happen again (like how Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit were handled in the Switch version of Mario vs. Donkey Kong). It can also make it easier to identify levels from each other easily without having to look up the name of the world first. This will also ensure moving articles if new worlds are added in remakes are made easier as well. Additionally, this will prevent game name confusion from occurring, specifically my issue with the Merry Mini-Land stages using the identifier "Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch".

With this format, this is how it will work:

• For levels that use generic numbering (1-x) and are from a named world, they will be named "(World Name) - X-X". For example, in the Switch version of Mario vs. Donkey Kong, we can call Level 5-DK and Level 8-2 as "Spooky House - Level 5-DK" and "Twilight City - Level 8-2".
  • As a side note - if two worlds from different games happen to share names, the newer game's level page can have the newer game's title in parenthesis. For example, hypothetically speaking, we get two worlds named "MarioWiki Land" in two games. It can go like this "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2" for Game A, and "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2 (Game B)" for Game B. To my knowledge, something like this has not occurred in any official games and upcoming content.
  • Depending on how the game may call the level code, it can be formatted differently. For example, in Hotel Mario, levels are named as "Stage #", and Super Mario Wiki refers to their level articles with the title ("Stage # (Hotel Name)"). It can be changed to be something like "Lemmy's High-ate Regency Hotel - Stage 1".
• For levels that use generic numbering and are in unnamed worlds (eg. Super Mario Bros.), they will be named "(Game Name) - X-X". For example, take World 1-1 in Super Mario Bros.. This can be named as "Super Mario Bros. - World 1-1" instead. The "world" designator can be renamed to "Level/Area/Stage/Course" depending on how the game calls it.
  • Some of you might be concerned with it conflicting with a certain job name in Super Mario Maker 2 - "Super Mario Bros. W1-1?". It shouldn't conflict at all - the format of the title is seemingly close but in the end it's fairly different.
• Redirects can be made based on the original names of the articles. For example, if "Level 6-3 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)" is moved to "Twilight City - Level 8-3", the former can be turned into a redirect that leads to the latter new title of the article itself, to make it easier to search for wiki readers who are more used to the old format. Another example is if "World 1-2 (Super Mario Bros. 3)" is moved to "Grass Land - World 1-2", where typing in "World 1-2 (Super Mario Bros. 3)" still leads to the article with the new name.
• Levels with names are already kept as is. If some level names from two or more games conflict due to them being the same, the name of the game should be placed in parenthesis for the associated articles, while the level of the game that is released first chronologically will keep its name as is (no game title in parenthesis after it.)
• If a case of level codes being updated occurs due to addition of new worlds (eg. Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit), the reissue's new level numbering should take priority over the old one.

Option 2: "(World Name) - (Level Code)" and "(Level Code) (Game Name)"

This is a variation of the first option which incorporates itself with the old level article naming system to make it more flexible to some situations especially for tackling commonly-searched terms like "World 1-1". This is how it will go:

• Levels that use generic numbering and are from a named world will be named "(World Name) - Level X-X". Ex. Level 4-mm (Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch) becomes "Merry Mini-Land - Level 4-mm".
  • If two worlds from different games happen to share names, the newer game's level page can have the newer game's title in parenthesis. For example, hypothetically speaking, we get two worlds named "MarioWiki Land" in two games. It can go like this "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2" for Game A, and "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2 (Game B)" for Game B. To my knowledge, something like this has not occurred in any official games and upcoming content.
  • Depending on how the game may call the level code, it can be formatted differently, whether it would be "Stage X-X", "Area X-X", or even simply "X-X".
  • For redirects, the original names of the articles may serve as redirects, however this may be handled differently depending on certain circumstances (shifting of world number for various worlds in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong remake, for example).
• Levels that use generic numbering and are from worlds with no names will follow this format: "World X-X ('Game Name')". Examples of such are World 1-1 (Super Mario Bros.) and World 18-1. The game name is used to differentiate the level from other games featuring a level with the same name, as per usual.
• Levels with names are already kept as is.
• If a case of level codes being updated occurs due to addition of new worlds (eg. Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit), the reissue's new level numbering should take priority over the old one.

I believe that identifying generically-named levels with numbered coding from each other should be made easier, especially if we need to look up information quickly for a friend struggling to find a level or its information. Right now, the current method of using game titles in parentheses makes it hard for such information to be easily looked up, and it has become more of an issue when we tried to fix up the level number coding and the articles for the new levels when documenting the Switch remake of Mario vs. Donkey Kong. I hope this proposal serves to change this for the foreseeable future.

Proposer: EleCyon (talk)
Deadline: April 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Secondary choice.

Option 2

1. EleCyon (talk) - First choice, per proposal.
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) - This could help solve some level naming discrepancies.

Keep as is

1. Hewer (talk) I don't really get why the problem of a few worlds in Mario vs. Donkey Kong getting their numbers changed warrants a massive change to how we name levels that forgoes our usual naming and identifier rules for no apparent reason. There was never a level called "Super Mario Bros. - World 1-1", it's just known as "World 1-1". I'd compare this to the case of Mario Kart tracks: for example, we have Wii Rainbow Road, but Rainbow Road (Mario Kart: Double Dash!!). We could rename the latter "GCN Rainbow Road" to be more neat and consistent, but it's never been officially called that, so we don't. I'd rather use that same logic and stick to official naming instead of enforcing our own version. And I don't see why only newer games should get identifiers for their titles - I feel like having both get identifiers, similar to the current system where identifier-less World 1-1 is a disambiguation, makes more sense.
2. Jdtendo (talk) Per Hewer, changing our entire level naming system just for disambiguating some MVDK worlds is overkill. However, I could see the merits of using the world name as an identifier specifically for disambiguating worlds 4 and more of MVDK (e.g., Level 4-1 (Merry Mini-Land)) and only in that specific case.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per Hewer. The MvDK (Switch) situation is overwhelmingly the exception, rather than the norm, so accounting for it on the levels for every single game that doesn't have this problem (so... basically every other Mario video game that has level articles) is extremely overkill.
4. JanMisali (talk) Per all. The proposal as written would be a lot of work for very little benefit, but implementing this for exclusively the relevant Mario vs. Donkey Kong stages would make those titles both less cluttered and more descriptive.
5. LinkTheLefty (talk) per plexing
6. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all. (please note that before MB64's vote, my vote was blank)
7. YoYo (talk) per all.
8. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per FanOfYoshi
9. Dine2017 (talk) Per all.
10. Sdman213 (talk) Per all.

Comments

Personally, I fail to see how this makes it any easier. With longer titles especially, the search dropdown's just gonna get cut off and you'll have a bunch of identical copies of the game title without being able to tell which is which (unless the functionality of it has been updated without me realizing). Also, I disagree with prioritizing remake over original with this. I'm not voting right now because I consider myself too tired to do so reliably, but those are my thoughts right now. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:58, April 22, 2024 (EDT)

I'll point out that "(Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch)" as an identifier is supported by MarioWiki:Naming: "If two different games share the same title but appear on different consoles and the identifier needs to distinguish between them, the game name and console are used in this format: ({game name} for {console}). For example, Beach Volleyball (Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games for Wii)." And you can tell the difference from something where it's part of the actual title like Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS thanks to the placement of the italics. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 02:18, April 22, 2024 (EDT)

Given the problem is exclusively present in the MvDK levels, I feel like it makes more sense to simply use a format like Spooky House-5 and Merry Mini-Land-mm for specifically that game and its remake, and leave the other courses and levels alone. This seems at least like an acceptable choice, given that the New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U courses Stone-Eye Zone and Spike's Tumbling Desert are both being alternatively referred to as Layer-Cake Desert-1 in their respective articles; meaning that, if these NSMBU and NSLU courses hadn't gotten exclusive names, the wiki would've most likely went for the Layer-Cake Desert-1 format. rend (talk) (edits) 11:19, April 22, 2024 (EDT)

This seems like the best solution to me. Relying solely on parentheses for this leads to, I believe, everything after world 4 needing them because the numbers desync. Ahemtoday (talk) 15:00, April 23, 2024 (EDT)

Jdtendo does make a good point, however. Using the world's name in parenthesis for the Mario vs. Donkey Kong worlds might be a better idea to go than mass renaming all the worlds to match what we're going for in the proposal. I might consider this should the proposal not pass at all, especially as I'm about to start documenting Slippery Summit levels soon. --EleCyon (talk) 21:58, April 22, 2024 (EDT)

Expand Rhythm Heaven series coverage

Template:ProposalOutcome The WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven series cross over with each other very frequently for various reasons. As such, this wiki currently has some limited coverage of Rhythm Heaven games. I believe that this coverage should be slightly expanded. While our fellow NIWA member Rhythm Heaven Wiki is doing a great job documenting these things and linking to it when relevant works, it would still be nice for the Super Mario Wiki to have all the WarioWare-related Rhythm Heaven content covered within its scope.

The new articles I suggest should be created are:

• Rhythm Heaven Fever (contains the game Kung Fu Ball, which features Young Cricket and was the first appearance of Cicada, who has since appeared in more WarioWare games than Rhythm Heaven games)
• Kung Fu Ball (stars Young Cricket and Cicada)
• Tap Trial (a version starring Ashley appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• Munchy Monk (a version starring Master Mantis appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• Fillbots 2 (a version starring Mike appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• Super Samurai Slice (a version starring 18-Volt appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• The Clappy Trio 2 (a version starring Jimmy T appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• Freeze Frame (Rhythm Game) (a version starring Dr. Crygor appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• Catchy Tune 2 (a version starring Kat & Ana appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)
• Ringside (a version starring Wario-Man appears in Rhythm Heaven Megamix)

To be clear, these articles would only cover these subjects to the extent that they are relevant to the WarioWare series, much like how the Rhythm Heaven Megamix article is written. This is not a proposal to annex the Rhythm Heaven Wiki's coverage into our own.

Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Deadline: April 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Create articles for Rhythm Heaven Fever and all Rhythm Games that feature playable WarioWare characters

1. JanMisali (talk) Per my proposal.

Only create an article for Rhythm Heaven Fever

1. Hewer (talk) While we do have articles for the Mario minigames in Nintendo Land, these ones are, from what I can tell, less substantial and reskins of un-Mario-related minigames, so I feel like giving articles to every one is a bit overkill and covering them like we currently do on the Rhythm Heaven Megamix page is neater and gives more purpose to those pages. Having a Rhythm Heaven Fever article but covering the main thing connecting it to Mario on a separate page would be like if we split the Super Mario Mash-up from the Minecraft page. That said, giving Rhythm Heaven Fever guest appearance status seems reasonable.
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Secondary choice
3. Camwoodstock (talk) This makes the most sense to us. While the Rhythm Game articles are a tad overkill (it'd be like making a Spleef "Tumble" article because of Minecraft's coverage on the wiki), given Rhythm Heaven Fever is retroactively the debut of Cicada, it seems only fair to at least give that game an article as a guest appearance. After all, if Art Style: PiCTOBiTS (our beloved) can have an article as a token guest appearance because you can use Mario items, why can't Rhythm Heaven Fever when it has the debut of a WarioWare character?
4. JanMisali (talk) Second choice, per Hewer and Camwoodstock.
5. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.
6. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per FanOfYoshi.
7. BMfan08 (talk) Hesitant as I was at first, I think this option is fair enough. Per all.
8. Arend (talk) After thinking about it, Cicada's debut in Fever COULD be likened to the whole Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic thing... somewhat, at least.
9. EvieMaybe (talk) per all
10. Scrooge200 (talk)
    The Voters Say...
    It's only natural, considering how much the two series cross-reference each other.
    And a character being named in another series is definitely worth noting.
    [83] Superb!

Do nothing

1. Super Mario RPG (talk) First of all, we have Rhythm Heaven Wiki, which you even mentioned in your proposal. We can still practically find ways to cover all of the Super Mario content in Rhythm Heaven without going overboard, otherwise we may find ourselves with a successor to the Super Smash Bros. coverage issue. Also, when you said in your proposal that you thought it would be "nice," that's vague and based on personal opinion, since one could swap out Rhythm Heaven for anything (Bayonetta, Shin Megami Tensei, Terraria, etc.) Wiki scope should be about practicality, not whether someone thinks something is "nice."
2. Shadow2 (talk) Both games constitute a minor cameo appearance. We absolutely do not need a FULL page about the ENTIRE game of RHF when Young Cricket only appears in one single small mode.

Comments

@Super Mario RPG: Obviously "nice" was being used to mean "preferable given the described circumstances", not sure what gave you an impression otherwise. One could not swap out Rhythm Heaven for any other franchise as Bayonetta, Shin Megami Tensei, and Terraria have not had frequent crossovers with the WarioWare series. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:18, April 22, 2024 (EDT)

@Hewer: To be fair, there is precedent for giving Mario reskins of otherwise unrelated minigames dedicated articles, namely the Game & Watch Gallery series. I understand your point though, it might be overkill to have full coverage of all these minigames when they're already handled on the Rhythm Heaven Wiki. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 17:00, April 22, 2024 (EDT)

@Shadow2: We're already doing precisely this for Rhythm Heaven Megamix. And maybe a few others that I don't remember at the moment. BMfan08 (talk) 13:22, April 27, 2024 (EDT)

Plus Nintendo Badge Arcade, Minecraft, Tetris 99, AR Games, StreetPass Mii Plaza, Nintendo Land, etc. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:46, April 27, 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, and I'm opposed to every one of those pages existing too (Except Nintendo Land) because they're cameos. Shadow2 (talk) 23:16, April 29, 2024 (EDT)

Well, you didn't make the coverage policy. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:08, April 30, 2024 (EDT)

@Shadow2: To clarify, Young Cricket's role in Rhythm Heaven Fever is not a "minor cameo appearance". Young Cricket's appearance in Rhythm Heaven Megamix where he briefly shows up in the background in the "Wario... Where?" version of Munchy Monk is a minor cameo. Young Cricket is a playable character in Rhythm Heaven Fever. Rhythm Heaven games are music-themed minigame collections, so a character "only" being playable in a minigame does not mean the same thing that it would in a game that isn't a minigame collection. Furthermore, Kung Fu Ball has had a direct impact on the WarioWare series, to the extent that a plot point in WarioWare: Move It! (the reveal of Cicada) requires the player to be familiar with Young Cricket's role in Rhythm Heaven Fever in order to have the full context. While I understand not wanting to give each of these minigames full coverage individually, I strongly believe that the game Rhythm Heaven Fever itself is unquestionably relevant enough to the WarioWare series (and, by extension, to the Super Mario franchise) to justify giving it a dedicated article. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 13:39, April 27, 2024 (EDT)

@Shadow2: This proposal is not seeking to cover literally everything that Rhythm Heaven Fever has for its potential article; just the stuff that is actually relevant to the Super Mario franchise (or in this case, the WarioWare series). The 2-player Endless Game Kung-Fu Ball is major enough to be covered in a Rhythm Heaven Fever article on this wiki (in a similar fashion to the articles that BMfan and Hewer have listed), given that not only the WarioWare character Young Cricket is playable, but his Player 2 partner, Cicada, eventually made her way into the WarioWare series as well, via the character trailers made for WarioWare Gold, and in-game with WarioWare: Move It! This would essentially make Rhythm Heaven Fever to Cicada what Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic is to Shy Guy and Birdo. rend (talk) (edits) 15:35, April 28, 2024 (EDT)