Template talk:WLSI enemy infobox

On the three-star ratings and the template's necessity

I've always wondered: are the "threat" ratings displayed by this template from an official source or are they made up? And regardless of that, is there a need for Wario Land: Shake It's enemies to have their dedicated infobox template instead of the universal species infobox, tweaked in case the ratings are legit? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 08:34, October 26, 2022 (EDT)

Comes from the Prima guide at least, but maybe it would be better if the info was moved into a profile section. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:34, October 26, 2022 (EDT)

Agreed, that would be consistent with how the wiki handles stats for other subjects. Anyone against replacing this template with the species infobox? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 04:30, October 27, 2022 (EDT)

If the only source is Prima and not in-game, then I don't mind just using the species infobox.

Shokora (talk · edits) 06:07, October 27, 2022 (EDT)

I agree. This should be replaced with the regular species infobox. The stars can be moved to profile sections for each article.--Platform (talk) 04:40, July 9, 2023 (EDT)

Decide how to use the generic species infobox on WLSI enemy articles

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

Delete this template 5-2
Something tells me that the stars in this template could be moved to the statistics section. Luckily, I've come up with three options on how to use the generic species infobox on Wario Land: Shake It! enemies articles:

Option 1

Delete this template.

Option 2

Move this template to {{WLSI enemy}} and change it into a horizontal infobox similar to {{WL4 enemy}}.

Option 3

Do nothing.

Here's a sample for the {{WLSI enemy}} template and an example of its usage once Option 2 passes:

{| class="infobox-wide" style="background:gold;border-color:#e0c200;width:64%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:gold"|{{color-link|black|{{{name|{{PAGETITLE}}}}}|{{{altname|}}}}}
|-
|rowspan=3 style="padding:5px;text-align:center;width:20%;border:2px solid #d4af37;border-right:1px solid #d4af37; background:lightyellow"|{{{image|[[File:No image.png|100px|center|class=notpageimage]]
[[Special:Upload|<small>Upload one!</small>]]}}}
{{#if:{{{worlds|}}}|
{{!}}width=6% style="padding:5px;text-align:center;border:1px solid #d4af37;border-top:2px solid #d4af37;background:lightyellow"{{!}}'''Worlds:'''
{{!}}width=12% style="border:1px solid #d4af37;border-top:2px solid #d4af37;border-right:2px solid #d4af37;background:lightyellow"{{!}}{{{worlds|}}}
{{!}}-
}}
{{#if:{{{levels|}}}|
{{!}}width=6% style="padding:5px;border:1px solid #d4af37;border-top:2px solid #d4af37;background:lightyellow"{{!}}'''Levels:'''
{{!}}width=12% style="border:1px solid #d4af37;border-top:2px solid #d4af37;border-right:2px solid #d4af37;background:lightyellow"{{!}}{{{levels|}}}
{{!}}-
}}
|-
|style="padding:5px;border:1px solid #d4af37;border-bottom:2px solid #d4af37;text-align:center;background:lightyellow"|'''Threat'''
|style="border:1px solid #d4af37;border-right:2px solid #d4af37;border-bottom:2px solid #d4af37;background:lightyellow"|{{#switch:{{{threat}}}
|0=[[File:StarOutline.svg|25px|link=]][[File:StarOutline.svg|25px|link=]][[File:StarOutline.svg|25px|link=]]|1=[[File:RedStar.svg|25px|link=]][[File:StarOutline.svg|25px|link=]][[File:StarOutline.svg|25px|link=]]|2=[[File:RedStar.svg|25px|link=]][[File:RedStar.svg|25px|link=]][[File:StarOutline.svg|25px|link=]]|3=[[File:RedStar.svg|25px|link=]][[File:RedStar.svg|25px|link=]][[File:RedStar.svg|25px|link=]]}}
|}

{{WLSI enemy
|name=Buccanero
|image=[[File:Buccanero.png|x100px]]
|worlds=[[The Sweet Stuff]], [[Quiver Cliffs]]
|levels=[[Aboard the Sweet Stuff]], [[Large Fry Cook-Off]]
|threat=2
}}

Buccanero
	Worlds	The Sweet Stuff, Quiver Cliffs
	Levels	Aboard the Sweet Stuff, Large Fry Cook-Off
	Threat

If we both use the generic species infobox and move the stars to the statistics section on Wario Land: Shake It! enemy articles, things can get as better as expected.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk)
Deadline: August 21, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

1. Hewer (talk) Per above discussion, the stars should be noted elsewhere on each article rather than in the infobox (and perhaps that way we could make their source more clear too).
2. Waluigi Time (talk) WL4 enemy and similar templates that have been popping up recently seem like an undiscussed expansion of the scope of profiles and statistics sections to me and I don't think we should be going any farther on those without a discussion. The original intent was to contain official bios and certain in-game statistics (i.e. a character's stats in RPGs or sports games), which is why for a while these were called "official profiles and statistics" before official was eventually dropped for being pretty obvious. Since they come from an official guidebook, the threat levels would be appropriate to put in profiles based on the original scope, but things like level appearances should be going in the main body of the article.
3. Arend (talk) To be honest, I do find it a bit odd that the Shake It enemies get their own infobox with a unique style, and what this infobox displays is also really minor, with only a threat level that is apparently only found in the PRIMA guide? Probably not worth covering in a horizontal profile box when a single list item can cover that too in Profiles and Statistics (unless there's more statistics in the PRIMA guide I'm not aware of)...
4. Nintendo101 (talk) Per Waluigi Time above and below. Platform games don't need things like this, and any helpful information in them would be better served in the main body paragraphs.
5. Power Flotzo (talk) Per all.

Option 2

1. GuntherBayBeee (talk) My best choice.
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) I'd love to see a WLSI enemy horizontal infobox that is complimentary to WL4 enemy.

Comments

If I'm not mistaken, Koopa con Carne encouraged me to make universal templates (like when I did the Smash Bros. ones). I wondered what was the fine line, and it seems that MKDS course crossed it. Not only the Paper Mario enemy horizontal infoboxes but also the Mario Galaxy bosses like Gobblegut is what inspired me to make templates like WL4 enemy. To me, I see things that can be explained outside of prose as profiles or something that goes in an infobox. I think the real question is whether something goes into infobox, profiles, or prose, and there hasn't really been a rule on that yet. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:13, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

I made an improvement to my proposal to include a sample and an example for Option 2. How does this look? GuntherBayBeee 15:15, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

I think it looks great. Anyway, the Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi templates already list locations where the enemy is found, so if by chance levels are not considered "profiles" the same may as well apply to the location where enemies are found in the aforementioned series, or the missions in the Gobblegut example. No harm in horizontal boxes for quick reference. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:24, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

RPG enemies are by necessity going to have statistics, so we might as well list the locations they appear in alongside the rest of the information (TTYD goes out of its way to list them in enemy profiles, btw). Platformer enemies on the other hand don't really do anything that's worth having a dedicated profile for, imo. I don't think looking at it from the angle of "if appearances aren't enough by themselves to create a profile, we shouldn't list them at all" is really the way to go here. (I also don't think an SMG boss infobox is necessary and is just a remnant of an earlier era of the wiki. We haven't done something like that for any of the other 3D platformers and I don't think something like that would be created today.) -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 16:03, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

Ditto what Waluigi Time says. Level appearances are not profiles nor statistics, unless they're actually listed in-game as part of a subject's profile (think the Mario Kart Tour karts and gliders). RPG statboxes don't seem to defer to that mostly because they tend to be transcluded from bestiary pages, where the point is to list as many gameplay-related traits of an enemy or boss as you can in a tabular fashion, rather than just what the wiki understands as "profiles" or "statistics". Also, some enemies (such as Jr. Troopa) can change stats as they reoccur throughout a game, making their locations useful to list for the purpose of reference. Neither excuse is applicable with platformer enemies, unless said platformer also has the trappings of what gamers perceive as RPGs. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:46, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

I've looked at the PRIMA guide as it's archived, and the only other thing listed with the enemies aside from their threat level is a description like most other characters. Should, uh, that be included too, or not? rend (talk) (edits) 16:37, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

I don't recall the wiki ever getting into legal trouble over hosting content taken from formerly paid, out-of-print publications, but I have no law degree so I don't know what a corporate lawyer has to abide by when they're prodded by their Big Daddy to hound a site. Nintendo has gone out of their way to DMCA strike scans of a magazine that hadn't run for a decade at that point (gamerant.com). -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:46, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

Seems like the proposal is on course to failing. To me, I'd change to a neutral vote, but that's because after some further consideration, Template:WLSI enemy would not have the Threat rating based on something sourced from the game data, but rather the Prima guide, in which case that would be listed under profiles by itself, since I don't think worlds and levels are enough to warrant a specialized template, but rather at least one distinct, consistent category based on in-game data (like which vibe an enemy has in Super Princess Peach or their glossary entry). Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:22, August 16, 2024 (EDT)

Failing? What do you mean? That implies that Option 3, the "Do nothing" option, would have the most votes by far, but NO ONE is voting for that one! Remember, the proposal is about deciding the fate of this template, which both Options 1 and 2 do (Option 1 being to outright delete the template, and Option 2 being to change it into a horizontal template for statistics). Option 1 is winning here, so that means that the proposal should still be successful, and NOT failing at all. Also, no matter which of the two options wins, the threat level would be moved to Profiles and statistics anyway. That's only not gonna happen if the proposal is actually failing option 3 is winning, but like I said before, NO ONE voted for Option 3 yet. rend (talk) (edits) 06:56, August 17, 2024 (EDT)

@Arend I misspoke. I meant the status of the template looks to be that it's going to be deleted outright. Super Mario RPG (talk) 10:12, August 17, 2024 (EDT)

Fair enough.
Either way, the threat level will have to be moved to profiles and statistics (that's also the general consensus for those who picked option 1 such as myself), and since it looks like the template will be deleted, I went ahead and made {{WLSI threat}} so the threat coding from this template is still preserved ahead of time and can easily be used for the Profiles and statistics section after the proposal is finished. rend (talk) (edits) 11:20, August 17, 2024 (EDT)