Talk:Tug o' War
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Mentioning the difficulty[edit]
Why has my edit regarding the difficulty and unfair advantage of the AI been reverted? It has every right to be there. This site gets away with mentioning all sorts of other trivia, and lots of other Wikis do the same thing with difficult levels of games. No sane person would dare say that this mini-game is easy to beat on single-player. Nintendo released a protective glove for all the people who hurt their hands playing this game. And there's no doubt that this mini-game was one of the reasons why they hurt their hands to begin with. Just try and beat it by yourself. And even if you did, there's no way that you don't feel a little stressed from spinning that control stick over and over. EldritchNexus (talk) 23:48, 31 May 2016 (EDT)
- It was removed because your wording of it is opinionated. I understand you and many others may think it's "frustrating" and "absurd", but you can't use words like those and flat-out say how difficult the minigame is, even if it's the common opinion.
Mario JC
- Most may consider it difficult, but others may think it easy or just don't care. Opinions don't exactly fly on the wikis, even if it's a collective opinion. The wiki is meant to show information about the subject with little to no acknowledgement to the fanbase (don't quote me on that), just simply give information about the subject as is. Same thing with tips and strategies; that's not what this wiki is meant for. We understand you're trying to help (believe me, I pretty much went through the same thing. Still kinda am...), but this sort of information is not suited to the wiki. The "Trivia" section is normally meant for little quirks commonly unnoticeable, or bits of info that don't fit into a category. It's not meant for opinions or tips. See here if you want some more info.
00:57, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- If this page is turning into a high traffic one (if that's what you call it) how about I get a Sysop to protect this page.
(talk) (edits) 
01:01, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- I don't think that's the problem, Fawful... 01:03, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- Who said there was a traffic problem? And like I said, LOTS of Wikis I've visited have acknowledged when a level or stage is exceptionally difficult. The Zelda Wiki does it, the GTA Wiki does it. What makes it so different here? I'm not venting my anger or giving tips or strategies. I'm giving common knowledge that anyone would bring up. If I was venting my anger, it would be a lot more blatant. And if I was offering tips or strategies, I'd put them in the appropriate section and list what you're actually supposed to do to get around it. If it doesn't count as trivia, then don't revert it. Put it in the appropriate section, or add an appropriate section if it doesn't exist yet. EldritchNexus (talk) 01:23, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- Just because lots of wikis acknowledged the difficulty doesn't mean this wiki does. We follow our own rules and policies we set up, and we don't care how other wikis handle subjective information. As for the article, difficulty is mostly a subjective thing. Some players might find it difficult, others may not, some players play with different settings, others not. We're not going to go on a debate to state whether this minigame is easy or not, and collective opinion doesn't automatically mean it's the right or even the "superior" opinion. Just stating the facts is more professional that way, because those can't get argued with, whereas, stating the difficulty of the minigame can be argued and it would be a gigantic mess if we allow the debate of subjective opinions. It's better to leave all sorts of strategy off than on; we don't focus on it anyway, we only focus on providing the hard facts. And if someone else would make that edit, being ignorant of wiki policies, it would be quickly reverted like any other edit. This is just how wiki editors here work, who cares how many people add it back in because they don't care about wiki policies. This edit has no place here at all, and therefore, doesn't belong on this article anywhere. Oh and PS I've beaten the easy computers at this minigame, and with a crappy N64 controller, see, not everyone has the same experiences as you nor collective, popular opinion.
Ray Trace(T|C) 01:32, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- But has anyone else had your luck? No? Then get off your high-horse and stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters. Besides, how do we know you didn't cheat or hack the game? And if you did do it legit, how many tries was it, and how many times were you able to do it in a row? If it's really so easy, you should be able to do it a dozen times non-stop. EldritchNexus (talk) 01:46, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- This debate is only proving my point on why we don't allow this on MarioWiki. I've never insinuated that my opinion is "better" than yours nor am I acting "elitist", my point is that people experience the game differently, people play through it differently, therefore, people get different opinions on the game. Is this minigame one of the worst minigames ever? Sure. Is it stupidly frustrating and hard? Definitely. Does this piece of "fact" belong here? Absolutely not. To make an analogy, Wikipedia doesn't call dictators like Hitler or Pol Pot the worst people in history because of common opinion, but they do list statistics and possibly official press opinion. If there was official press opinion of this minigame, it might get a spot on this article, but as for now, making statements about the general opinion of this game is bad, and flies against what we do in this wiki, so that's why your edit is considered a bad one. Ray Trace(T|C) 01:51, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- Then we just need to remove the opinionated parts and merely acknowledge that the CPU is very broken; Even if you're on the side with two other computer-controlled players, the other side still pulls you just as easily as if you were all alone on the Bowser Suit side against the three computer players. Is it harder than any other mini-game? Maybe or maybe not, but it's not our place to judge. But you can't just ignore faulty AI, and I've seen enough of it in other parts of these games to know when a game is or isn't acting when it should. EldritchNexus (talk) 01:55, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- The problem with that is that the faulty AI is difficult to detect properly. We don't know if the AI is intentionally programmed like this, or if it's a bug on their end. I'd rather not add information for an observation that is not 100% confirmed to be true. In my experiences with this minigame, I clearly remember killing the guy with the Bowser suit on Easy difficulty, and consistently as well. I could have been paired with another human, though. Ray Trace(T|C) 01:59, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- The problem with that is that the faulty AI is difficult to detect properly. We don't know if the AI is intentionally programmed like this, or if it's a bug on their end. I'd rather not add information for an observation that is not 100% confirmed to be true. In my experiences with this minigame, I clearly remember killing the guy with the Bowser suit on Easy difficulty, and consistently as well. I could have been paired with another human, though.
- Then we just need to remove the opinionated parts and merely acknowledge that the CPU is very broken; Even if you're on the side with two other computer-controlled players, the other side still pulls you just as easily as if you were all alone on the Bowser Suit side against the three computer players. Is it harder than any other mini-game? Maybe or maybe not, but it's not our place to judge. But you can't just ignore faulty AI, and I've seen enough of it in other parts of these games to know when a game is or isn't acting when it should. EldritchNexus (talk) 01:55, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- This debate is only proving my point on why we don't allow this on MarioWiki. I've never insinuated that my opinion is "better" than yours nor am I acting "elitist", my point is that people experience the game differently, people play through it differently, therefore, people get different opinions on the game. Is this minigame one of the worst minigames ever? Sure. Is it stupidly frustrating and hard? Definitely. Does this piece of "fact" belong here? Absolutely not. To make an analogy, Wikipedia doesn't call dictators like Hitler or Pol Pot the worst people in history because of common opinion, but they do list statistics and possibly official press opinion. If there was official press opinion of this minigame, it might get a spot on this article, but as for now, making statements about the general opinion of this game is bad, and flies against what we do in this wiki, so that's why your edit is considered a bad one.
- But has anyone else had your luck? No? Then get off your high-horse and stop acting like your opinion is the only one that matters. Besides, how do we know you didn't cheat or hack the game? And if you did do it legit, how many tries was it, and how many times were you able to do it in a row? If it's really so easy, you should be able to do it a dozen times non-stop. EldritchNexus (talk) 01:46, 1 June 2016 (EDT)
- Just because lots of wikis acknowledged the difficulty doesn't mean this wiki does. We follow our own rules and policies we set up, and we don't care how other wikis handle subjective information. As for the article, difficulty is mostly a subjective thing. Some players might find it difficult, others may not, some players play with different settings, others not. We're not going to go on a debate to state whether this minigame is easy or not, and collective opinion doesn't automatically mean it's the right or even the "superior" opinion. Just stating the facts is more professional that way, because those can't get argued with, whereas, stating the difficulty of the minigame can be argued and it would be a gigantic mess if we allow the debate of subjective opinions. It's better to leave all sorts of strategy off than on; we don't focus on it anyway, we only focus on providing the hard facts. And if someone else would make that edit, being ignorant of wiki policies, it would be quickly reverted like any other edit. This is just how wiki editors here work, who cares how many people add it back in because they don't care about wiki policies. This edit has no place here at all, and therefore, doesn't belong on this article anywhere. Oh and PS I've beaten the easy computers at this minigame, and with a crappy N64 controller, see, not everyone has the same experiences as you nor collective, popular opinion.
- I don't think that's the problem, Fawful...
- If this page is turning into a high traffic one (if that's what you call it) how about I get a Sysop to protect this page.
- Most may consider it difficult, but others may think it easy or just don't care. Opinions don't exactly fly on the wikis, even if it's a collective opinion. The wiki is meant to show information about the subject with little to no acknowledgement to the fanbase (don't quote me on that), just simply give information about the subject as is. Same thing with tips and strategies; that's not what this wiki is meant for. We understand you're trying to help (believe me, I pretty much went through the same thing. Still kinda am...), but this sort of information is not suited to the wiki. The "Trivia" section is normally meant for little quirks commonly unnoticeable, or bits of info that don't fit into a category. It's not meant for opinions or tips. See here if you want some more info.
