MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/12

Any proposal decided and past is archived here. Use the scroll box to see votes and comments. This page is protected to maintain the discussion as was. Please add archived proposals to the bottom of the page. Splitting the Capsule article SPLIT 14-0 There's something strange around here: The capsule from SSB and the capsule from Mario Party series are merged INTO ONE ARTICLE, but, THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! I think we shoud split in into two articles: Orb, because it IS the Mario Party Capsule; and Capsule (SSB). Now you see, Orb is the redirect page, but this mustn't be a redirect; instead, the remaining article after the split will be an disambiguation of course. Still thinking to remain it so? There are reasons to split it: They look different (SSB capsules are looking like those medicine capsules (look at the Megavitamin), MP capsules and orbs are just... round capsules. You can even see what in a MP capsule/orb contains, never in a capsule). They ALSO work different, even because the game style differs (Orbs and MP capsules are placed on spaces, SSB capsules can be thrown anywhere). Effects are different TOO (SSB capsule: 1 o' the 8 chance it explodes, other seven will contain items, MP capsules and orbs will change the selected space in a Character Space, which effect will start when been stopped on). Color variations (The SSB capsule will always stay White/Red, the MP capsule/orb has a transperent part and a part which differs what for sort effect it has). Have I proven truth now? Do you think so as I? Give your own opinion. Proposer: Arend (talk) Deadline: December 11, 2008, 17:00 Support Arend (talk) - Per myself, of course Blitzwing (talk) - Per Arend. Stumpers (talk) - The merging of two subjects who share a name but are different characters is something we should be combating per the results of the Star Rod proposal awhile back. Canama (talk) - Per all Walkazo (talk) - Per all. Princess Grapes Butterfly (talk) Per all. Super-Yoshi (talk) - Per Stumpers and Arend. Tucayo (talk) - Per Arend, but they should be split in 3 pages, (Orb, Capsule (MP5) and Capsule (SSB)) Stooben Rooben (talk) - Per all. Randoman123456789 (talk) - Per all. Why are two completely different things merged into on article? Dom (talk) - Per all, especially our good old friend Logic. Yoshi Boo 118 (talk) - Per all, especially Arend. Ralphfan (talk) - Per all!! Master Hand (talk) Per all, mah boi! Oppose Comments To Tucayo: An Orb is just a different name for a Capsule, just as Toadstool is a different name for Peach, and we don't have an article for "Toadstool" and an article for "Peach." -- Son of Suns (talk) Super Mario Amada Series SPLIT 9-0 We currently have an article entitled Super Mario Amada Series that encompasses three works: Super Mario Momotaro, Super Mario Issunboshi, and Super Mario Snow White. Each was released in separate tapes and were not part of one grander three part serial, but were rather separate stories. Each was just shy of 20 minutes long, rivaling each full episode of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! in length. Now, take into account that each of those episodes currently has two articles: one for the live-action segment and one for the cartoon. Thus, the three subjects are certainly notable enough for their own articles. I should note, only Issunboshi is long enough as it stands not to be considered a stub, but each video's article could easily be made as long. Thus, I propose we split the article into: Super Mario Momotaro, Super Mario Issunboshi, and Super Mario Snow White. Proposer: Stumpers (talk) Deadline: December 12, 2008, 20:00 Support Stumpers (talk) - See my reasoning above. Son of Suns (talk) - They are part of a series of three individual cartoons, just as the Paper Mario series is made up of three individual games. Princess Grapes Butterfly (talk) Per all. These cartoons are all based on different fairly tale stories and they are individual not the same, so these article should be spilt. Walkazo (talk) - Per all. Not many people have watched the movies, but there's still enough information out there to make decent articles if we're willing to work at it. Stooben Rooben (talk) - Per all. Grandy02 (talk) - Per all, every episode tells a different story. Super-Yoshi (talk) - Per Stumpers. Alex25 - Per all. RAP (talk) - Per all. Lawl, I wrote that section! :3 The Issunboshi one. :P Oppose Comments As an aside, the name of the article is fan-made as far as I know: Amada is the name of the company that produced them and "Super Mario Amada" was a term used by TheMushroomKingdom.net. The intro to Momotaro calls itself, "Super Mario Momotaro." If this proposal does not pass, we still need to change the title of the article. Stumpers (talk) Split Adventure Mode Enemies (SSBM) and Subspace Army into individual articles KEEP MERGED 4-6 This proposal would give individual enemies listed in each of theses their own pages, reversing this previous decision. I am proposing this for several reasons. First, according to MarioWiki: Canonicity, there is no official canon, so we should not discriminate between different types of enemies in the greater Mario franchise. Additionally, the MarioWiki: Importance Policy says there are no restrictions on the number of articles that can be made for each sub-series or cross-over series. Fifty detailed articles (including descriptions, attacks, behaviors, locations, etc.) is better than a sub-par list that limits our knowledge of what some users may see as vital subjects. We should not be prejudiced against different series connected to the main Mario series; they are all equal in the wiki, and some users may find such information valuable. Why should their way of consuming the greater Mario franchise be denied by the wiki? A few articles about fifty or so Smash Bros. enemies is not going to overwhelm the wiki with Smash Bros. content, seeing that there is probably over a thousand Mario enemy articles, enemies that might have less information than the Smash Bros. enemies could potentially have. Plus we still have articles on all the Smash Bros. stages and items, so why not enemies? In the end all these enemies will be separated into their Smash Bros. related categories, so such information will still be separated from the main group of Mario enemies. Proposer: Son of Suns (talk) Deadline: December 13, 2008, 20:00 Support Son of Suns (talk) - Because I believe in a Mario Wiki that is open to various ways of appreciating the greater Mario franchise. Super-Yoshi (talk) - Per SoS. Arend (talk) - Though there was a proposal to merge the Adventure mode enemies in one, I'm on this side. Yoshi Boo 118 (talk) Per SoS. Oppose M&SG (talk) - This is a Wiki designed for the Mario universe. Enemies that have no involvement in the Mario universe should not have separate articles (ReDeads, Octoroks, Like Likes, Topis, Polar Bears, Subspace Army). I know this, because I once did an article for a minor non-Mario character (Panther Caroso and Leon Powalski to name a few) and got in trouble for doing it. If this were the Smash Wiki however, THEN it would be a different story. White Knight (talk) - I've visited many other videogame wikis, and I noticed one thing. Super Mario Wiki goes into more depth over cross-overs than any other videogame wiki I know. For example, the Zelda wiki does not have an article for Mario even though he appeared in all three Smash Bros. Games with Link, Nintendo Monopoly with Link, a cameo appearance with Link in Captain Rainbow, and had a few cameo appearances in Zelda games. Besides, if one wanted to look up Smash brothers enemies, wouldn't it make more sense to look it up on the smashwiki? Stooben Rooben (talk) - Per all. We are a Mario Wiki, and we need to show more focus on the Mario series than any other. Covering all things in the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario series are perfectly fine because they are extremely closely tied with the Mario series, but the Super Smash Bros. series is more of a Nintendo series than it is an actual Mario series. Certain Mario aspects may be found within the Super Smash Bros., sure, but those games aren't anymore tied with the Mario series than than they are with the Metal Gear, Metroid, and Zelda series. Princess Grapes Butterfly (talk) Per all. We arn't the Smash Bros wiki or Nintendopedia. Walkazo (talk) - Per all. There may not be an official canon surrounding the games, but there is a difference between Mario (et al.) titles and Super Smash Bros. I'm also worried this might open the floodgate to many MORE articles about outer-series aspects found in SSB. There's still so much that needs to be done about our Mario content, and we should focus on that before getting side-tracked with SSB stuff. Pokemon DP (talk) - Per all. I am aware I was the one who fought for making individual articles on SSB content in the past, but now I realize that we were putting TOO MUCH focus on the SSB series. Special moves are definitely more important than individual SSB-restricted enemies, but they were still merged with their respective character articles. So, yeah, I think SSB-restricted enemies should all be merged into one article so we don't become too much of a Mario (featuring Super Smash Bros.) Wiki. Comments Haven't there already been heaps of discussions about this very topic? Dom (talk) Yes, there were. There was a proposal for merging the enemies, which passed. Grandy02 (talk) This proposal would reverse that decision. -- Son of Suns (talk) So that previous Proposal is now being undone - making the first one pointless... ooooooookay then... 0_o Dom (talk) Wikis are about change. We don't always get things right the first time around. -- Son of Suns (talk) SoS is right. Our main Page was also different first, and we had an older logo. Arend (talk) It's like everything is a paradoxical enigma... my computer chip brain hurts. Reversing a decision does not bring back wasted time, I'm just saying that. I have nothing against the Proposal, in case that's what you thought. Dom (talk) Might I suggest adding a link to the SmashWiki on those pages if this proposal doesn't pass? We'd be linking to another wiki that supplies a lot of information on the SSB series, which would help people realize that we should focus more on the Mario series. ...But, again, this is just a suggestion in case the proposal doesn't pass. Stooben Rooben (talk) Good idea. External linking is always a good move, especially when it's to our fellow Wikis (who knows, maybe they'll even return the favour some day). - Walkazo (talk) If we really wanted to support our "fellow" wikis, we would move all our content to Wikia. Wikia would allow easy access between different wikis on Mario series, the Donkey Kong series and Smash Bros. However, since we are an independent wiki, we have the option of building an inclusive community that encompasses a wide variety of series around a central concept (in our case Mario). Smash Bros. is one part of this greater concept, and it doesn't serve the needs of our users to direct them to wikis not about Mario when we could easily support such content here. -- Son of Suns (talk) We have content about Itadaki Street DS, Captain Rainbow, and Doki Doki Panic all games very loosely tied to the Mario series. However we cover them all though Mario has much stronger ties to Super Smash Bros. than any of these games. Without Mario, we would not have Super Smash Bros. He is the core franchise of the series, and we are doing a great disservice to the Mario series, Nintendo, and this wiki by limiting article creation of Smash Bros. subjects. Again, users not interested in Smash Bros. do not have to read or edit these articles, and they will always be in their strict categories. You don't have to accept Smash Bros. as "canonical." However, since Nintendo has not stated what is canonical and what is not, many users may feel that Smash Bros. is strongly tied to Mario, and this connection becomes an important part of engagement with both series. By giving importance to one type of enemy over another, we are disempowering users and potential new writers. I strongly believe allowing users to work on more Super Smash Bros. articles is of greater benefit to the Mario Wiki and the content of the main Mario articles. It is not becoming "side-tracked" as Walkazo describes it, but invites users with special knowledge into the wiki, knowledge they can apply to both Smash Bros. articles and Mario articles. While someone's main interests may be in Smash Bros., they may also be big fans of the Mario series. However, if we say Smash Bros. is unimportant, then these writers will be less inclined to work on our wiki, both Smash Bros. and Mario content. On the other hand, if we open up our wiki to others, we can create an even better database of Mario knowledge, and foster a more inclusive Mario community. -- Son of Suns (talk) SSB already has more coverage than those three crossovers. We only have articles on Captain Rainbow and Doki Doki Panic themselves, not on the non-Mario aspects they include (as far as I've found). As for Itadaki Street DS, aside from the game's article we have pages about the playable characters (same as SSB), other characters that affect gameplay (pretty much the equivalent of Assist Trophies), and nothing more. As for "disempowering" people, there's nothing stopping them from writing nice big sections in a greater article about the non-Mario enemies. We're not saying SSB is unimportant, we're saying it's less important than Mario, and seeing as we're the Super Mario Wiki, that's not an unreasonable judgement-call. And if someone does get offended by that, do we really want them (and their stinky attitude) in our community? - Walkazo (talk) We have already established that Super Smash Bros. is of "lesser importance" than Mario according to the Importance Policy, but the importance policy also states that this not mean that the number of articles for particular series can be regulated. And I am very offended by your last comment, as it infers that some people are lesser, that they have a "stinky attitude," just because they want more recognition for a particular part of the greater Mario series (Super Smash Bros. is even included in the chronological overview of our Mario (series) article). We should be open to lots of different people with different views, not labelling them and judging them. We should be an accepting community, not a close-minded one that leaves out others because it does not match what "we" really want (whoever this supposedly unified "we" is anyways). What is important to the "Mario" series is not clear-cut, but a relative concept. Indeed Subspace Emissary enemies may be more connected to Mario then the enemies of other related series, including the Donkey Kong and Wario series. Subspace Emissary enemies actually worked alongside Bowser, and his Goombas and Koopas - that is they are explicitly connected to the main antagonist of the Mario series. Many enemies from the Donkey Kong series and Wario series can't make a similar claim. Mario and Smash Bros. are extremely interconnected. Even the name Super Smash Bros. is directly related to Super Mario Bros. These connections are very important, and I believe this wiki should not be effacing such connections. -- Son of Suns (talk) Just for information: The name Super Smash Bros. was made up for the western market, the original name only shares the word "Bros." (in tons of franchise names) with Super Mario Bros. (Dairantō Smash Brothers, literally "Great Melee Smash Brothers", is the franchise's Japanese name). Sorry for nitpicking, I couldn't resist. ;-) --Grandy02 12:44, 13 December 2008 (EST) Haha, no problem. Nitpicking is a good thing! Regardless, I still think the two series are extremely interconnected. Oh, and Grandy02, you may have noticed that I changed the Adventure Mode Enemies article to not be a simple list of trophy information. I think Stumpers said in an earlier proposal about merging SSB special moves that we can't lose content through the merge. So I remerged that "lost" content back into the Adventure Mode Enemies article. At the very least, regardless if we are divided on whether SSB elements should have individual articles or not, the content of the series should not be compromised. As individual articles or as one larger merged article, we should provide as much detailed content as possible for all related subjects. =) -- Son of Suns (talk)