Talk:List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.

Restore Samus Aran's article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

restore article and merge Zero Suit with it 10-0-0
In an effort to curtail components of the wiki focused on non-Mario related subjects, many characters that are chiefly associated with Mario through the Super Smash Bros. series were merged together into articles like this one. A few with more prominent relationships with Super Mario outside of Smash Bros., such as Link, Fox McCloud, Kirby, Pac-Man, Sonic, Bomberman, and Mega Man, retained their articles. This is all fine and good, though I think some characters were lost in the shuffle. Samus, a character nearly as old and recurring as Link, is one of them. Unlike Fox, Samus physically appears in one Super Mario game and is physically alluded to in at least two others, namely Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and Paper Mario: The Origami King. I think her previous article should be restored.

The comparison between Link, Samus, and Fox stood out to me because they all debuted together in the original Super Smash Bros. While it is justifiable that Link would retain dedicated article coverage, the fact that Fox kept his article at all and Samus lost her's seemed odd off-hand. Star Fox has never been as prolific as Metroid, and I was not even aware of many scenarios where their characters occurred in Super Mario media. If I recall correctly, the justification for Fox came from his physical appearance in the Club Nintendo comic (or perhaps Super Mario-kun.) I would argue that Samus physically appearing in a Super Mario game warrants an article for herself just as well. (If not, more deservingly than Fox, imo.)

While I am not sure how much of a numbers game this is, for quick comparison, Link is at minimum relevant to 30 Mario-related pieces of media, Fox is to 16, and Samus is to 21. These are conservative numbers that exclude the Tetris games, Nintendo Land, Nintendo Badge Arcade, the Zelda cartoon, and their unused appearances in Superstar Saga. It also excludes indirect cameos and allusions, like the model Arwing in Super Mario RPG and the news reel mentioning Zebes in the Super Mario Bros. Movie.

Link

1. Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up
2. Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
3. Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble
4. Super Mario RPG
5. Donkey Kong Land 2
6. Mario Golf (Nintendo 64)
7. Mario Golf (Game Boy Color)
8. Mario Artist: Paint Studio
9. Game & Watch Gallery 4
10. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!
11. WarioWare: Twisted!
12. WarioWare: Smooth Moves
13. WarioWare: D.I.Y.
14. WarioWare: D.I.Y. Showcase
15. WarioWare Gold
16. WarioWare: Get It Together!
17. WarioWare: Move It!
18. Super Mario 3D World
19. Super Mario Maker
20. Super Mario Maker 2
21. Mario Kart 8
22. The Super Mario Bros. Movie
23. Club Nintendo
24. Captain N: The Game Master
25. Super Smash Bros.
26. Super Smash Bros. Melee
27. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
28. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
29. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
30. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Fox McCloud

1. Club Nintendo
2. Super Mario-kun
3. Super Smash Bros.
4. Super Smash Bros. Melee
5. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
6. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
7. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
8. Mario Kart 8
9. Super Mario Maker
10. Mario Artist: Paint Studio
11. Mario Golf (Nintendo 64)
12. Mario Golf (Game Boy Color)
13. Donkey Konga 2
14. WarioWare: Smooth Moves
15. WarioWare: D.I.Y.
16. WarioWare Gold

Samus Aran

1. Super Mario RPG
2. Super Smash Bros.
3. Super Smash Bros. Melee
4. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
5. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
6. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
7. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
8. Captain N: The Game Master
9. Mario vs. Wario: The Birthday Bash
10. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!
11. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$!
12. WarioWare: Twisted!
13. WarioWare: Touched!
14. WarioWare: Smooth Moves
15. WarioWare: D.I.Y.
16. WarioWare: Get It Together!
17. WarioWare: Move It!
18. Mario Kart 8
19. Super Mario Maker
20. Paper Mario: The Origami King
21. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze

I offer three options.

1. Support: split-off Samus and Zero Suit Samus into a shared, dedicated Samus article
2. Support: split-off the strictly Power/Varia Suit-related Samus information
3. Oppose: do not split-off the Samus info and create a dedicated Samus article

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: June 11th, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: split-off Samus and Zero Suit Samus into a shared, dedicated Samus article

1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal. We are not bound by how Smash Bros. delineates fighters - Samus and Zero Suit Samus are literally the same person.
2. Jdtendo (talk) I'm not sure whether the sheer amount of cameos in Mario-related media should be a criteron for having a dedicated article, but the fact that Samus makes a physical appareance in Super Mario RPG means that she should have a dedicated article.
3. Ahemtoday (talk) Purely on the back of her appearance in Super Mario RPG — she's an NPC, and has a name, and therefore an article on her is in accordance with what MarioWiki:Minor NPCs encourages.
4. Camwoodstock (talk) We're honestly surprised that Samus was one of the Smash fighters that got the merge considering their resume of cameos--especially the Super Mario RPG one in particular, which actually got a slight addition in the remake in the form of the Scrapbook entry. We think the best comparision is Fox McCloud--primarily appearing in WarioWares and a few comic cameos. If Fox can be split, we can't exactly think of any compelling reason to not split Samus.
5. Hewer (talk) Per all, I'm a little surprised it took this long. It seemed weird at first to split Zero Suit into the same article since they're separate characters in the Smash games (post-Brawl, at least), but given we're splitting her for Super Mario RPG rather than Smash, I guess it does make sense to just treat Samus as Samus. (It would be "Samus" and not "Samus Aran" though, to be clear.)
6. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Yeah, makes sense. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 11:03, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
7. Mushzoom (talk) Per all.
8. SeanWheeler (talk) The list is so cluttered, we might as well just give Samus and many other fighters back their pages.
9. DrBaskerville (talk) Because Samus has been featured in at least one game, she deserves her own article.
10. LinkTheLefty (talk) Don't let Samus Aran away again.

#Super Mario RPG (talk) As long as it aims to be strictly confined to Super Mario appearances only.

Oppose

#Super Mario RPG (talk) We're a wiki on Super Mario, not Metroid. Perhaps Samus could be moved to a different list article, like List of Nintendo protagonists (if we're to get rid of the non-Super Mario Smash Bros. coverage entirely, which hopefully will occur some day), but she doesn't have any major role in any Super Mario media, unlike the others listed in Template:Crossover characters. There's several articles where I've already pointed to the Samus Aran article on Metroid Wiki (in part, because it's easier to link to than these list pages, not necessarily based on any sort of guideline). If anything, these list pages set a precedent of organizing all non-Super Mario content that's currently present on the wiki to allow for better prominence to Super Mario content, which is deserving of its own articles, while these list pages would a common theme of non-Super Mario content and unique forms of interactivity with the Super Mario franchise. Side note: Fox having fewer appearances is besides the point if he happens to have a major role in one piece of Super Mario media, which Samus does not.

Comments

@Super Mario RPG: I think looking at this as "non-Super Mario content" is the wrong mindset. True, we're not a Metroid wiki, but the proposal's not asking us to cover Metroid games, it's about covering Super Mario content where she appears. And Samus does make a major enough appearance in a Super Mario game (your namesake, no less) for an article, if MarioWiki:Minor NPCs has anything to say about it. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:29, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG Don't we already have only Super Mario appearances in the Samus section? That's not going to change. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 11:56, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

Okay @Hewer and @SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA), I've changed my vote, since I am not necessarily opposed to non-Super Mario content on the wiki if it's interacted with Super Mario content, but in such cases I still want these to be handled carefully so that it does not get out of hand. When it's limited to only Super Mario, this will help encourage people to support the other NIWA wikis if they are interested in said subjects. Super Mario RPG (talk) 12:02, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

Well, ok, that's fine. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:05, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

It is nice that you are keeping our NIWA affiliates in-mind. I remember how detailed those crossover articles were before they were merged, and I think that attention could be better spent on their own wikis when available. Some of them, Metroid Wiki included, are small and don't receive as much attention as Super Mario Wiki. (There have been 27 edits total made on Metroid Wiki in the last month. If you like Samus Aran and Metroid in particular, I encourage you to go there.) But this article is for Samus's appearance in the Super Mario franchise and Mario-related media. Nothing more, nothing less. - Nintendo101 (talk) 12:18, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

@Nintendo101 To help further, I've created a proposal somewhat corresponding to this one, since if my one passes, only the Super Mario appearances of Samus will move off, not the Super Smash Bros. information. I've changed my oppose vote to support since it was largely concerned about overstepping boundaries with coverage, but I support for the Super Mario appearances alone. Super Mario RPG (talk) 12:36, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

I'm a bit mixed on this proposal, mainly because Samus plays a very minor role in Super Mario RPG. If she did something like, give an item, I'd be more willing to say yes to this. TheUndescribableGhost (talk) 17:50, May 30, 2024 (EDT)

Not that it'll skew your opinion any since it's from pre-release content that was scrapped anyways, but it's funny you mention the idea of her giving an item in specific... ;P ~Camwoodstock ( talk • contribs ) 21:18, May 30, 2024 (EDT)

Well, MarioWiki:Minor NPCs... Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:18, May 31, 2024 (EDT)

Should all of the fighters get all of their pages back?

Ever since the characters were merged into a page like this, I don't think it's a good idea. It might be great to have all of the SSB. characters that don't have their own articles with their own individual articles. I think if any of them were to appear in Mario Kart, the articles would be right back. Primarily because the characters having separate articles might be way better. I also think it's funny that Sepiroth used to have his own page here. Also I think Steve from Minecraft needs to have his article back because he does appear in one Mario game, the Nintendo Switch version of Minecraft. ILoveBFDI1215 (talk) 19:12, March 7, 2025 (EST)