Talk:Hammer Bro (Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time)

Wrong

Is it the wrong place to put the gloassary and stuff? Paper Jorge (Talk·Contribs)

I dunno. It's kinda funny and still informative. I say keep. -- Son of Suns

Japanese

I wonder how these look in Japanese? I think I have heard something about Japanese at Wikipedia. For example, "/ may be used in stead of the sokuon character etc.  Caps Lock LORD 18:34, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Animation

Why did someone remove it? PJ

SOMEONE (I think SoS) said it was poor quality and removed it. 3D, SHAME! I loved it!

no L33t!!!

I think we should make the title NON-"leet" speak. It would give the article a more "We are not crazy people naming articles in weird slang" feel. Max2

Nah, it is their only official name. What do you suggest changing it too?Knife (talk) 20:23, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Elite Hammer Bros., Leet Hammer Bros., Leet bros., for all I care! It shouldn't be in Leetspeak. at least make a redirect! Max2

It should be in L33t. And you can make a redirect yourself.  Caps Lock LORD 16:04, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

We are being encyclopedic and accurate in saying it is in L22tsp34k. There is minimal Leet being used, but the stuff that is should be spelled correctly. L33t. GG445 "...?" 20:47, 25 September 2011 (EDT)

Redirects

The words "L33t Hamm3r Broz." can be altered a lot. How will we handle redirects? Some examples:

• L33t can be replaced by 1337, L337, LEE7, Leet and more...
• Hamm3r can be replaced by Hammer, H4mmer, H@mmer, Hamm3r, H4mm3r, etc.
• Broz. can be replaced by Broz, Bro, Bro., Br0, 8r0, Br0.

Spawning a large number of alternate versions. Then how?  Caps Lock LORD 16:08, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

AAAAAHHH! l33t sp34k! 1 have no idea, but my suggestion would be: mentioning there's also other ways these words can be said (in article), give just one example, and just keep the way they call themselves and don't create pages like 1337 |-|@mm3r Broz. as redirects or something. Just call them the name they call themselves in game. Paper Jorge (Talk·Contribs)

Or they could be 1337 |-|4/\/\/\/\3R 8R05! :|

Oficial Name

turns out, they are called Hammer Bros. in-game. Should I move this to "Hammer Bros. (PiT)"? Max2 (talk)

Nah, they call themselve L33t "Hamm3r Broz" ingame. Gofer

In the battle, is says "Hammer Bros." Max2 (talk)

Then there are two official names. And I'd go for this one as the article name, for not to create a disambiguation or something similar. - Cobold (talk · contribs) 10:25, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

Or, we could put an "also known as" note. I just thought it would be another idea. Max2 (talk)

Merge with Hammer Bros.

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

keep split 2-21
Not much to say about this, but they are basically the Hammer Bros. being mind-controlled. There really isn't much to state about them being different, except that they are mind-controlled.

Proposer: Kaptain K. Rool (talk)
Deadline: April 5, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Kaptain K. Rool (talk): Per proposal. (Me!)
2. Yoshidude99 (talk) They are just Hammer Bros so they should be merged.

Oppose

1. Reversinator (talk) They are separate, named characters. They are also bosses. As such, they deserve an article.
2. UltraMario3000 (talk) Per Reversinator.
3. Edofenrir (talk) - Per Reversinator
4. Bop1996 (talk) I'd say something smart, but Reversinator already said it.
5. SWFlash (talk) Per Bop1996.
6. Mariomario64 (talk) Per Reversinator.
7. Magikrazy51 (talk) Their scenario is no different from any of the bosses fromthe Yoshi's Island series. Whether Kamek transforms them or Princess Shroob (or whoever did this, I don't have the game). Also, per Reversinator.
8. DKPetey99 (talk) - They are notable members, why merge them?
9. Tails777 (talk) Per Reversinator
10. Bloc Partier (talk) - Per Reversinator.
11. Zero777 (talk) I am Zero! Per Reversinator. Zero signing out.
12. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) The L337 Hamm3r Broz. are not simply enemies like the Hammer Bros. from Superstar Saga. I kinda put them on the same line as Shrowser, since both are bosses and have way different statistics and attack patterns than their nonpossessed counterparts.
13. Mario4Ever (talk) Per all.
14. Reddragon19k (talk) Per all! This is a good proposal but, no merge!
15. MrConcreteDonkey (talk) - Why not merge Mario with human? Or how about merging Toad with Toad (species)? Obviously characters don't matter at all. Per all.
16. Walkazo (talk) - Per all (mainly Reversinator).
17. Iggykoopa (talk) per all
18. Count Bonsula (talk) - Per Rever.
19. Bowser's luma (talk) P3r a11.
20. DK and Diddy Kong vs Bowser and Bowser Jr. (talk) If this proposal passes, merge Mario with Fire Mario. Per all.
21. Ultrahammer5365 (talk) Per all.

Comments

Reversinator: They are Hammer Bros. simply. Kaptain K. Rool (talk)

You are ignoring the fact that they have diologue, are named, are fought as bosses, teach the heroes how to use hammers, so they're actually pretty major. And since they're named, they get an article. --Reversinator 07:15, 22 March 2011 (EDT)

Yes I know. I have M&L:PiT. Goombas have a bit of diologue in the M&L: BIS game and enemies can have major roles in some games. Kaptain K. Rool (talk)

We have articles for all of those extremely minor NPCs in the Paper Mario series because they are named. Why can't these guys have articles? --Reversinator 07:28, 22 March 2011 (EDT)

IDK. Your point? Kaptain K. Rool (talk)

His point is that he just rendered your point moot. - Edofenrir (talk)

What Edo said. --Reversinator 07:35, 22 March 2011 (EDT)

If you play this game than you have to play that game for everybody since isnt fire mario just mario with a fire flower Iggykoopa (talk)

...Sorry, but what are you trying to say? --Reversinator 16:17, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

I think it's a poor attempt to explain that the L33t Hamm3r Broz. don't differ enough from Hammer Bros. to deserve their own article by comparing them to Fire Mario. Mario4Ever (talk)

In that case, Iggy, you didn't read any of my comments, or perhaps the actual article, did you? There are clear distinctions between the L33t Hamm3r Broz. and regular Hammer Bros. --Reversinator 19:26, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

I know that what i was sayin is that if we merge them just because they are hammer bros than wouldnt we have to merge fire and regular mario since it's just mario Iggykoopa (talk)

You may want to pick up a grammar book. Just saying. --Reversinator 19:39, 28 March 2011 (EDT)

Leet/Elite

It's currently written "pronounced Elite Hammer Bros.". Shouldn't it be "pronounced Leet Hammer Bros" ? The term "leet" may derive from the world "elite", but it isn't the same thing. Another minor thing : "noob" is translated as "newbie" in the quotes. Is it necessary ?
Banon (talk · edits) 11:56, 21 December 2012 (EST)

Saying "Leet" fairly quickly sounds like "Elite", so I think that can stay because that is what it means in the quotes. Also, I think the quote translations for "noob" should remain as they are because it is more formal English, which is what the quote translations are trying to give.

Shokora (talk · edits) 22:01, 28 December 2012 (EST)

Yes, it would not be a good translation if we would let all the "roxor" "hotness" or "pwned"
Banon (talk · edits) 09:39, 4 January 2013 (EST)

Minor edit on the quotes section

On the quotes section, it's written "Before battle", but there are not any "During battle" or "After battle". For instance, "Newbies are still not defeated. Continue battling until all newbies are defeated." is a quote said during the battle, so it should be changed.
Banon (talk · edits) 09:47, 4 January 2013 (EST)

C'est juste. Si seulement il y avait une encyclopédie en ligne sur Mario que n'importe qui peut éditer... --Glowsquid (talk) 10:12, 4 January 2013 (EST)

Désolé de pas l'avoir fait, mais je n'ai pas accès à la partie du jeu correspondante (ou alors je devrais recommencer le jeu depuis le début) et je ne peux donc pas classer les citations. Mais bon, c'est vrai que mon message pourrait paraître un peu sec : "Faites-le vous-même car je veux pas le faire !". Je voulais pas dire ça en tout cas. Désolé.(I'm sorry not to have done it myself, but I can't play this part of the game and classify the quotes)
Banon (talk · edits) 16:39, 4 January 2013 (EST)

Redirect

Aren't sledge bros. sometimes called elite hammer bros.? RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!! (talk) 06:38, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

This isn't needed for this article, maybe on the Elite Hammer Bros. or Sledge Bros. talkpage Yoshi876 (talk)

Rename this page to L33t Hamm3r Broz.

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

do not rename to l33t hamm3r broz 3-11
Previously, this page was known as "L33t Hamm3r Broz." until it was unceromoniously moved to its current name, and I want to counter that. This is the encounter with the article's subjects, and you'll notice very quickly that they speak in leet, hence the name that appears in their very first dialogue. I'm going to also say that this is their most recognizable aspect, and the leet name itself is in a more prominent place than the in-game battle menu (not to mention how players won't even see that name if they only use Fire Flowers). Using this generic name, on the other hand, makes them seem as if they're like any other Hammer Bro and disregards what makes them unique, as discussed in the above proposal. I really do not see why we should use a name that requires an identifier when we have a perfectly serviceable alternative. Plus, the name I'm suggesting comes with a plural, which makes sense when we're discussing more than one Hammer Bro.

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: December 21, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.
2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) It is the official name, as it's said in dialog.
3. Astro-Lanceur (talk) P3r A11

Oppose

1. Lcrossmk8 (talk) It's not the official name, because we're not even sure if Nintendo confirmed it. They're just Hammer Bros brainwashed by the helmets they wear, and after the helmets come off, they are just normal Hammer Bros. The L33T Hammer Broz might not even be their name, so I think the article should stay how it is.
2. Owencrazyboy9 (talk) I have to agree with Lcrossmk8 about this. If Hammer Bro is their actual in-game name during the battle, then that should be the name of the article.
3. LinkTheLefty (talk) I'd understand if the notion was to move it to "HAMM3R BROZ." slightly, but it's back to "L33t Hamm3r Broz." - an outright revert to the article's previous title. The fact is, the battle text - which has no incentive to lie to the player and is hardly mistaken outside of translation flubs - plainly identifies this enemy as "Hammer Bro" and not "Elite Hammer Bro" or some other variant that would match, so it's safe to say "L33T" isn't actually meant to be taken as a part of the name. The idea of "HAMM3R BROZ." comes from a bizarre speech quirk while they are mind-controlled in the game's story. Even if we choose to ignore this, their role in the game doesn't end with their battle - they afterwards become allies where they express shame and regret at their past actions. Basically, the situation is taking a character's moniker from joke dialog verbatim despite there being an intentionally funny or heavy accent and deciding for some reason that it overrides the game's own interface using their proper name.
4. Alex95 (talk) - L33T seems to be a personal addition. Both the in game battle name and the Nintendo Power guide label them as simply "Hammer Bros." Per all.
5. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per all.
6. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
7. YoshiStar28 (talk) They are Hammer Bros. alright and I like it the same way. Per all.
8. Niiue (talk) Considering that they're called Hammer Bros. in battle, per all.
9. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) There are near infinite leet speak combinations for "leet hammer bro", and some weak-minded people may not be able to read leet speak. And, while I haven't played the game, apparently they're called "Hammer Bros." in battle, so per all.
10. LuigiMaster123 (talk) Per all.
11. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Þ3ŕ Ħ11.

Comments

@Lcrossmk8: What do you mean Nintendo didn't confirm it? It's in the game. Literally said by the characters. How could Nintendo possibly confirm it any further? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 22:35, 6 December 2017 (EST)

Edit: Also, much in the same way that Mr. L refers to Luigi's brainwashed state, "L33t Hamm3r Broz." itself refers to the brainwashed state of these characters. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 22:37, 6 December 2017 (EST)

Isn't that precisely why they shouldn't be called the "L33T HAMM3R BROZ."? If the characters soon look back at their brainwashed states in embarrassment, then it can't be said to represent them. It's also pretty obviously a speech quirk gag, especially since the game itself makes no effort to change their name from "Hammer Bro" when identifying them in battle. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:07, 6 December 2017 (EST)

As if Luigi enjoyed being Mr. L? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 23:23, 6 December 2017 (EST)

If you highlight Mr. L in battle, Tippi does not call him Luigi. Here, after the joke's over, the game immediately calls these guys Hammer Bros. This is taking a gimmicky speech pattern at face value. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:32, 6 December 2017 (EST)

The greater portion of time on-screen these characters have, they're brainwashed. Besides, what about our recent "use alternate names instead of identifiered names if official alternate names exist" rule? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:15, 7 December 2017 (EST)

At the very least, call them "HAMM3R BROZ." - the game interface does not call them "Elite Hammer Bro" to match. Though I can't think of cases where battle text is mistaken besides mistranslation. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:17, 7 December 2017 (EST)

Because they were the only Hammer Bros. in the entire game? Also, I don't think "Neosquid" could be reached by mistranslation, it seems like translating the Japanese name would be pretty clear-cut in that case... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 08:57, 7 December 2017 (EST)

Yes, but if anything, "L33T" is a personal adjective rather than meant as part of their name. The battle text would reflect that at minimum. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:30, 7 December 2017 (EST)

It really comes off as part of the name, for specification purposes, like the adverbs in Jumping Piranha Plant and Climbing Koopa. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:57, 7 December 2017 (EST)

Can you really decipher that from the dialog? What does the player's guide say about this? LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:05, 7 December 2017 (EST)

Again, people, there is a rule that most of you voted on that states that if an alternate name exists, use it regardless of naming hierarchy if it means avoiding the usage of identifiers. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:37, 7 December 2017 (EST)

L33T doesn't appear to be part of their name at all, and going off of the Japanese name which is simply Hammer Bros., it seems more like a humorous add-on to me. I never called them "L33T HAMMER BROS." or whatever, even if that dialogue is there. Should we give L33T HAMMER its own article, too? 11:43, 7 December 2017 (EST)

No, because projectiles that specific enemies throw and appear once don't need their own articles, hence why the energy-formed Bullet Bills from the Swiggler fight don't get their own article. What would that amount to? Snufit Ball, that's what. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:45, 7 December 2017 (EST)

Merge to Hammer Bros. (mach deux)

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit this section or its subsections. If you wish to discuss the article, please do so in a new section below the proposal.

merge 7-0
So a long time has passed since the previous merging attempt, and a lot of things have changed within that time, not just on how we handle things, but on our understanding of this subject. Namely, the in-battle enemy cursor across all languages simply identifies them as Hammer Bros. Additionally, these are the only Hammer Bros. fought in the game, giving them a similar role to the Mushroom Way boss from Super Mario RPG. As for the "brainwashed" aspect, you could say the same for Kamek also in SMRPG, much of the Koopa Troop in Super Paper Mario and The Origami King, and Wiggler in Paper Jam. Either way, once they're free from their control, it becomes clear that by default, they're just generic Hammer Bros.

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: June 2, 2021, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per proposal.
2. Scrooge200 (talk) I think a key difference is that the behavioral differences aren't permanent. After the battle, they're freed from their brainwashing and act like regular Hammer Bros (although friendly). These are also the only Hammer Bros. in the game.
3. Keyblade Master (talk) If the SMRPG coverage works on the main Hammer Bro page, hopefully this should to.
4. TheFlameChomp (talk) It seems that these Hammer Bros. are regular Hammer Bros. that were just temporarily brainwashed. Bosses that are simply generic enemies are not usually split, as seen with the Mario & Luigi Wigglers.
5. Somethingone (talk) If the only difference between them and a normal hammer bro is that they are just brainwashed, then i don't really see a reason why they should be separate from the main Hammer Bros Page.
6. 7feetunder (talk) This seems like a similar case to the various standalone Wiggler characters found in RPGs, which we decided weren't split-worthy years ago.
7. Archivist Toadette (talk) To anti-quote one of the support votes in this proposal: "They are separate, named characters. They are also bosses". Um, that's the main argument used for keeping the split of these particular Hammer Bros, and it's frankly very silly. Nobody's saying that merging this into the main Hammer Bro article will suddenly confuse readers into thinking that the characters are legitimate Shroob allies.

Comments

Is L33T HAMM3R BROZ even their real name? because if not then that gives less of a reason to keep them separate from the main Hammer Bro article. Yes they say that in game but the proposal above says that it isn't their official name. Somethingone (talk) 08:01, May 20, 2021 (EDT)

That name is only used in one line of dialogue, while they're simply referred to as "Hammer Bros." in their target name and guides. Nightwicked Bowser 08:07, May 20, 2021 (EDT)

Well then that lessens the number of reasons to keep this article separate. Somethingone (talk) 08:40, May 20, 2021 (EDT)

Also, as pointed out in the above proposal, "L33T" might not even be intended to be part of the "name," considering all alphabetical characters they use while mind-controlled are capitalized. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:03, May 20, 2021 (EDT)