Talk:Kinoppe

Should we cover Kinoppe-chan Forever?

I mean, its protagonist is part of the Toad species, I dare to say that at least a simple page about the series overall should be made (I'm also planning to buy it and find if any Mario characters appear.) -- Mariuigi Khed 17:17, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

I don't think so. It's explicitly mentioned in MarioWiki:Coverage#Fan work by creators officially involved with the brand as an example of something that doesn't qualify. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 17:19, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

It would kinda seem similar to if the Sonic wiki started covering Ken Penders's unaffiliated work, and uh, anyone who knows what I'm talking about would know why that's a bad idea. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:23, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

Ah, didn't know that. Ok, nvm. (still buying tho: maybe there might be some info related to the main manga) -- Mariuigi Khed 17:26, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

It would also be like covering K-9 on a Doctor Who wiki. Which, whaddaknow is indeed covered. (The show I mean, not the character the show is using from Doctor Who. Man this is confusing) Of course, counterpoint to that is that Doctor Who has many of its pieces owned by their creators, which is less true Super Mario. But I'm not one to dismiss anything just because it's an especially estranged branch. Salmancer (talk) 17:32, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

Myself, I find the idea amusing. I opened a discussion on this some time ago on the forums: https://www.marioboards.com/threads/47852/
Reiterating here:

• This character originated in a Mario-related work.
• The character is a Toad.
• Her eponymous work is assuredly a spin-off of a Mario manga. The only possible scenario where this isn't the case is if the author of said Mario manga introduced Kinoppe in it solely so he could promote her then-upcoming starring role, a la what happened with Banjo in Diddy Kong Racing, except that ended up only materializing, you know, 2 whole decades later. Quite unrealistic if you ask me.
• Unlike what the coverage policy states, the Kinoppe manga isn't exactly unofficial, not when something like RareRacers is covered here (with a failed proposal that sought to remove it). Motoyama reserves copyright over both the Mario manga (see forum post above) and the Kinoppe spin-off.

Hypothetical: If Cookie Jar Group or WildBrain or whoever has the rights over the Super Mario World cartoon decided they'd produce an educational TV series starring Oogtar the curious caveman in a setting that was completely distinct from his debut, would that be viewed as official or unofficial? What if Microsoft spun Timber off into his own video game with no ties to the Diddy Kong Racing IP? Because Kinoppe's situation is extremely similar if not identical to those invoked, except it's actually happened, and I think the answer to these questions could contribute towards a verdict over the coverage of her manga. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:48, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

You know what, I'm sold. There's a very compelling case to be made for it, and I'd absolutely support a proposal to change the coverage policy to allow for Kinoppe-chan Forever, if someone were to make one. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 18:05, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

Idem -- Mariuigi Khed 18:14, October 28, 2024 (EDT)

I think there's some confusion about what Kinoppe-chan Forever is: it's a doujin, meaning it's entirely self-funded/written/illustrated and Kazuki Motoyama simply uploaded it on platforms that allow for self-publication. Nobody on Nintendo had or could sign off on it (since Motoyama owns the copyright for the character) nor was it commisioned or cleared by any publisher. From what I can tell from the summaries and previews on the sites it's sold on, it contains no other elements from the Mario series (the series explicitely has Kinoppe transported to a different world to facilitate this) and she is slightly redesigned to make her Toad elements less prominent. Doc's comparison to Ken Penders (who wrote for the Sonic comic books and in a messy court case, acquired the rights to characters he created for that comic and is now using them for a self-published comic extremely unauthorized by Sega) is on-point.

There might be a deeper debate here, that being: should the Super Mario Wiki loosen up its "official material only" policy and go more in depth in regard to derivative material and the culture that surrounds Mario? I'm saying this because if your stance is "Yes the Super Mario Wiki should cover unofficial Mario content more and have a page on Kinoppe-chan Forever" that's very fair! But if it is "No the Super Mario Wiki should not have page on derivative content but it should have a page on Kinoppe-chan Forever", I'm sorry but that's not coherent. --Glowsquid (talk) 19:09, October 28, 2024 (EDT)