MarioWiki:Proposals

Current time: Wednesday, November 6th, 00:54 GMT

Proposals can be new features, the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken. Voting periods last for two weeks. Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!"). All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options. For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) two weeks after voting starts (all times GMT).
   • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is two weeks later on Monday, August 15, at 23:59 GMT.
4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote(s) at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
   • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
9. If a proposal reaches its deadline and there is a tie for first place, then the proposal is extended for another week.
10. If a proposal reaches its deadline and the first place option is ahead of the second place option by three or more votes, then the first place option must have over 50% approval to win. If the margin is only one or two votes, then the first place option must have at least 60% approval to win. If the required approval threshold is not met, then the proposal is extended for another week.
    • Use the {{proposal check}} tool to automate this calculation; see the template page for usage instructions and examples.
11. Proposals can be extended a maximum of three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, then the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks (at the earliest).
12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
14. Proposals can only be rewritten or canceled by their proposer within the first six days of their creation. However, proposers can request that their proposal be canceled by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting, or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

---

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 14 days after the proposal was created, at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "November 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

---

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

Proposals concerning a single page or a limited group of pages are held on the most relevant talk page regarding the matter. Proposals dealing with a large amount of splits, merges, or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
3. The talk page proposal must pertain to the subject page of the talk page it is posted on.
4. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

• Remove "(series)" identifier from titles that don't need it (discuss) Deadline: November 5, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Split sections between Tanooki Mario and Kitsune Luigi (discuss) Deadline: November 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Determine what to do with Jamboree Buddy (discuss) Deadline: November 12, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Split Cursed Mushroom from Poison Mushroom (discuss) Deadline: November 12, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Orbs that share names with pre-existing Mario Party series items with those items (discuss) Deadline: November 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Create a number of articles for special buildings in Super Mario Run (discuss) Deadline: November 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Consider Deep Cheeps' appearance in the Super Mario Maker series a design cameo rather than a full appearance (without Blurps being affected) (discuss) Deadline: November 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT
• Merge Mushroom, Dash Mushroom, and most of Super Mushroom (discuss) Deadline: November 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)

Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles, Nintendo101 (ended July 3, 2024)

^ NOTE: Not yet integrated for the Super Mario Maker titles, Super Mario Run, and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.

Create new sections for gallery pages to cover "unused/pre-release/prototype/etc." graphics separate from the ones that appear in the finalized games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 2, 2024)

Add film and television ratings to Template:Ratings, TheUndescribableGhost (ended October 1, 2024)

Use the classic and classic-link templates when discussing classic courses in Mario Kart Tour, YoYo (ended October 2, 2024)

Split articles for the alternate-named reskins from All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 3, 2024)

Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended October 17, 2024)

Remove all subpage and redirect links from all navigational templates, JanMisali (ended October 31, 2024)

Prioritize MESEN/NEStopia palette for NES sprites and screenshots, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended November 3, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)

Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)

Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)

Allow separate articles for Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)'s subjects, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended August 3, 2024)

Split Banana Peel from Banana, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2024)

Merge Spiked Thwomp with Thwomp, Blinker (ended November 2, 2024)

Unimplemented proposals

#	Proposal	User	Date
1	Create boss level articles for Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Land series	Aokage (talk)	January 3, 2015
2	Create a template for the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door badge drop rates	Lord Bowser (talk)	August 17, 2016
3	Split all remaining courts and boards from their parent articles	NSY (talk)	September 25, 2016
4	Clean up species categories to only include non-hostile species	Niiue (talk)	August 8, 2017
5	Clean up Category:Artifacts	Niiue (talk)	August 22, 2017
6	Trim down Category:Fire Creatures and Category:Ice Creatures	Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)	September 7, 2017
7	Expand the Behemoth King article	Owencrazyboy9 (talk)	December 23, 2017
8	Create articles on the Remix 10 secret courses in Super Mario Run	Time Turner (talk)	December 26, 2017
9	Add anchor links to Power Moon lists (view progress)	Super Radio (talk)	December 31, 2017
10	Create articles for the Wario: Master of Disguise episodes	DKPetey99 (talk)	January 23, 2018
11	Remove bolded text from image captions	Time Turner (talk)	February 11, 2018
12	Create articles for the Mario Party 4 hosts	Tails777 (talk)	February 11, 2018
13	Create a template for FA archives	Toadette the Achiever (talk)	February 18, 2018
14	Merge the specified Super Smash Bros. subjects	Time Turner (talk)	April 9, 2018

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Replace enemy sections with an infobox entry

Add an |enemies= section to {{Levelbox}} and move "Enemies" sections (like World 1-1 (Super Mario Bros.)#Enemies) to the infobox. This information doesn't seem like it's worth a whole section since it's already covered in the overview section, and small lists (which is the case in most levels) would fit perfect in an infobox, especially if they were comma separated instead of bulleted.

While it's true that having some level articles with enemies sections and some with enemies in the levelbox would be inconsistent, I think this has to be considered with the usefulness of having sections with small lists of enemies.

EDIT: Alex95 suggested the enemies levelbox section could be collapsible, solving my main concern with adding enemies sections to the levelbox. I've made an example of how this could look here (any suggestions for changes are welcome).

EDIT 2: I think there's another important point that needs to be addressed: what should be included in the enemies sections? As this may directly affect this proposal's outcome, I've opted to add it in, as I'm still within the editing window for the proposal. I just moved it to a new proposal, for semantic distinctiveness, and a slightly increased voting period.

Proposer: The Retro Gamer (talk)
Deadline: May 7, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Move all enemies sections to the levelbox, with the enemies section being collapsible.

Alex95 (talk) - I suppose I'll agree with myself.
The Retro Gamer (talk) Per my proposal. Edit 1: I'm thinking about how to (and if I will) revise my proposal; I don't think this reformatting will work well on a grand scale for levels with more than 20 enemies. Edit 2: Alex95 suggested that the infobox section could be collapsible, and I like this option very much; it elegantly solves the space concern while putting infobox-appropriate information in the infobox. Edit: No longer my preferred option; see my vote above.

1. Supermariofan67 (talk) Per Alex95
2. Reboot (talk) Per
3. Wildgoosespeeder (talk) The concern over a long enemy list isn't a big one because MediaWiki CSS styles we use start the list collapsed (mw-collapsible mw-collapsed). See here. Leaving an enemy list as an article section instead of in an infobox makes the specific vital level information look excluded. A level infobox should include basic level information, such as time limit, world-level, music, etc., which I see enemies as that type of information.

Add enemies to the levelbox, but keep the enemy sections

1. The Retro Gamer (talk): I would prefer the other option, but I'll still vote here as a fallback. While the enemies sections do fill space, I honestly think most of the content regarding the level's enemies should be covered in the level's description (usually in the section titled "Layout"). The list of enemies is side information that might be good in certain circumstances, but I don't think it's useful to the general reader. However, I still support this option because I don't think it's bad to have some infobox/article redundancy, since an infobox allows for a concentrated organization of information. Regarding Yoshi the SSM's vote, see my comment below; implementing this change would not be that much work with a bot process.
2. Toadette the Achiever (talk) While I still think less is more, especially with infoboxes, I can envision this solution working as an alternative. This is my first choice.

Don't add enemies to the levelbox

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) -Some levels have MASSIVE amounts of enemy variation, which would cause a cluster if in the infobox.
2. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Second choice: less is more, especially with infoboxes. Per Doc.
3. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per Doc's comments. Also, this would require a lot of work (hundreds of pages) with very little difference. This slight difference doesn't warrant that massive work for it to be done. Whether it is just the proposer or multiple users.
4. YoshiEgg1990 (talk) Per YoshiTheSSM.
5. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per all, this would just be overfilling the infobox.
6. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all. I also don't feel we should add it to the infobox and keep it in the article, as that seems redundant.

Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick: Can you provide an example of a level article with a large amount of enemy variation? I'm not trying to doubt you, I just want some context so I can understand better. --The Retro Gamer 20:49, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

Actually, I see what you mean, I really underestimated the amount of enemy variation in some levels, how annoying: The Great Maze takes the cake, with a whopping 71 enemies! I'll think about how to revise (or whether to remove) my proposal. --The Retro Gamer 21:17, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

Although on the other hand, "The Great Maze" is kind of an exception, with the next-most enemy populated level being Super Star Dash, with 42. It's still a lot, though. --The Retro Gamer 21:25, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

Ok, for reference, here's a list of the top 11 most-enemy populated levels:

1. The Great Maze: 71 enemies
2. Super Star Dash: 42 enemies
3. Nisekoi: Tsugumi & Marika: 39 enemies
4. NWC 2015-2: 32 enemies
5. World 16-2 (Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS): 30 enemies
6. Wavy Beach 5-5: 23 enemies
7. World 12-2 (Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS): 22 enemies
8. Bowser's Chambers of Doom: 21 enemies
9. Ship Love: 21 enemies
10. NWC 2015-3: 20 enemies
11. Wavy Beach 5-4: 20 enemies

--The Retro Gamer 21:44, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

To me, any list of more than like 5 things is too much for an infobox, as it invariably either stretches it down or looks cluttered if there's any more than that. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:55, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

That's the thing... most levels are not even in the 20's range. I would imagine 10 is the average, but I'm doing counts right now. --The Retro Gamer 22:07, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

Here are the counts I've got. They're slightly overcounted because they include some worlds, but the bias shouldn't affect the general trend. For those interested, these numbers were calculated from an iterative regular expression search (using regex of the form == ?Enemies ?==(?>\n\*[^\n]*){#}(?!\n\*)) of a export generated from a recursive subcategory and page search of Category:Levels; if anyone else does a count and gets different results, please tell me.

• 19 enemies: 4 pages
• 18 enemies: 1 page
• 17 enemies: 7 pages
• 16 enemies: 8 pages
• 15 enemies: 8 pages
• 14 enemies: 11 pages
• 13 enemies: 19 pages
• 12 enemies: 12 pages
• 11 enemies: 38 pages
• 10 enemies: 41 pages
• 9 enemies: 56 pages
• 8 enemies: 72 pages
• 7 enemies: 82 pages
• 6 enemies: 148 pages
• 5 enemies: 216 pages
• 4 enemies: 281 pages
• 3 enemies: 332 pages
• 2 enemies: 307 pages
• 1 enemy: 208 pages

This proposal could also have a boundary, where only levels with under a certain amount of enemies would have the enemies relegated to the infobox. My concern is that the renovation of the DKC levels will add a lot of small lists of enemies, when these could just be in the infobox. --The Retro Gamer 22:43, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

We really do not need every statistic in the infobox, especially regarding variance.... (also geeze how did you get all those so fast?) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:00, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

It's directly relevant to this proposal, since you brought up the question of enemy lists being too long for the infobox. The point there is, most enemy lists are shorter than 6 enemies. I could make the votes more nuanced by having one section voting for specific limits. And I'm also aware of the next question: inconsistency. I don't think it's unreasonable to have certain pages to have enemies in the infobox, while others have it in the article body; one could consider that levels over a certain number of enemies are notable in their number of enemies, rather than considering the general case requiring a section. --The Retro Gamer 23:24, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

I think this should be an all-or-nothing deal so as to not have arbitrary exceptions happen, and I'm going with "nothing." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:25, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

But the exceptions wouldn't really be arbitrary, since they could be based off the statistics above. You're welcome to vote how you please, but I think lists under a certain amount of enemies shouldn't be kept in the article body just for the sake of consistency. --The Retro Gamer 23:35, 29 April 2018 (EDT)

Still thinking over, so I'm not going to vote yet, but keep in mind that a "spoiler box" is a thing as well. Like in Template:Species-infobox. Perhaps this new section can be coded like that, if space is the main issue. 00:20, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I was not aware of that option. I think that option would be the optimal outcome, solving the space issue completely. I'll add that to the list of options and add my vote to that. --The Retro Gamer 00:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

The collapsability changes nothing for me, as I still find it looks bad, and is a detrimental change in general. Enemy lists are too important to be relegated to the small text, particularly that is hidden. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 14:17, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

Oh, I thought we were still keeping the information in the article anyway. Misread the proposal. Yeah, the list of enemies in the level is rather important to have confined to an easily missable section in the infobox, so either both should be there or nothing should change imo. 14:23, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

...I don't understand: both of what? Just relegating the sections to the infoboxes (rather than also keeping the current sections) seems to look rather unprofessional and make all of the articles look more short than they need to be IMHO. ^(T|C) 15:16, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

How about the new option "Add enemies to the levelbox, but keep the enemy sections": it seems like most people don't have a problem with the enemies being in the levelbox, but some (most?) would also prefer to keep the enemies sections. Another thought: the levelboxes could just be a pure list, while the enemies section in the article could include counts. --The Retro Gamer 15:39, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I still think this should not be added to the infobox at all. Mariowiki's policy is "only once," and having it in the infobox is less preferable than having a list on the article itself. Ergo, it should not be on the infobox at all, as that would be either redundant or pushed out of the way unnecessarily. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:31, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I just read over MarioWiki:Once and only once. That policy is sort of vague and appears to have been written to address multiple pages about the same thing, no infobox redundancy. In particular, I don't think it should apply to infobox redundancy, because infoboxes are basically mostly redundant information reorganized; the article's lead section usually covers much of the same information. But it is true that some of the same points ("One of the versions will soon be out of date") could possibly apply to this kind of redundancy.

I think this proposal hinges on the importance this wiki's community places on enemy lists to an article; I do not find them particularly important because they are (or should be) covered in the level layout section, but others (like yourself) are free to disagree. --The Retro Gamer 18:13, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I just don't think they should be in the infobox. Furthermore, that starts a slippery slope: Should we mention how many coins/bananas appear, and which are situational? Should we list how many containers of various types, such as boxes, crates and barrels? How many areas of weak ground with secrets under them there are? How many springs? How many background elements? How many points are feasible? The point is, this could go on recursively until eventually we're at how many a-presses it takes, and we don't need to go there. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:28, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I just think lists without descriptions look a bit ugly in the middle of articles which otherwise have sections filled with descriptions. I can see your slippery slope argument, and I do think we have to be careful about adding things to the infobox. In your Should we list how many... sentences, I'm a bit unclear if you think non-noteworthy things will get shoehorned into the infobox to avoid the scrutiny of an article section, or if you're worried about nuanced things being simplified in the infobox. --The Retro Gamer 18:49, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

My point is, we don't want the infobox to cover absolutely everything; that's what the article itself is for. And large lists look far uglier in the infobox than they do on the page itself, because infoboxes are intended to be shorter than the article, regardless of collapsability. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:52, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

The reason why it looks ugly in the article to me is all the whitespace to the right when browsing articles on desktop. I think infoboxes are meant to provide quick access to basic information about an article, and enemies are basic information about a level that also usually isn't ambiguous (like coin counting) or trivial (like the number of background elements). --The Retro Gamer 19:04, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I prefer whitespace to bloated infoboxes, myself. If need really be, we could always feature a gallery of sprites/model renders/screenshots, which would take up empty space and not be brushed out of the way. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

I want to point out that they are covered in the level layouts if they are really relevant to the layout. Just, not in a list form. The enemy section helps us to know which enemies appear without searching for them in the layout. Yoshi the SSM (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

Which is why we have them listed in reasonably-sized text under a header that isn't in the infobox, where the text is small, and easily-missable if it's collapsed. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:49, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

@Yoshi the SSM: Regarding the amount of work, keep in mind the changes could be implemented smoothly using a bot process with a bit of care (I used the same strategy to count the number of enemies in enemy sections above). --The Retro Gamer 19:34, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

Oh. Ok. I'll change it soon. But won't entire remove due to Doc's comments. Also, Part 1 doesn't need to be part of the proposal. That needs to be an entirely new proposal. Otherwise that would make two different outcomes the same proposal. And if one pass and the other didn't, we don't have anything for it. Also, if one ended in a tie and the other didn't... yeah. Yoshi the SSM (talk) 10:49, 1 May 2018 (EDT)

The outcomes are directly related, I think, because the viability of moving enemies sections to the levelbox is directly related to whether the enemies sections (in the loosest sense of the term: both levelbox sections and article sections) include enemy counts. It was intended to be a matrix of options, where one can choose what degree the enemy lists should specifically cover, while. We already have multi-option proposals, so I don't see how this would confuse the system. But I don't have a deep understanding of closure specifications in multi-option proposals; Pass/fail is a bit oversimplified for them, since different pass outcomes may be radically different. If something was a tie, then status quo would be kept for that part of the proposal.

If others express concern though, I will split it out into its own proposal. I've thought this over again (with TheFlameChomp also commenting in an edit summary), and I remembered there's already precedent for related but separate simultaneous proposals, so I've moved that to a separate proposal. --The Retro Gamer 13:24, 1 May 2018 (EDT) (Edited: 13:44, 1 May 2018 (EDT))

@Wildgoosespeeder What I worry about is how it will look un-collapsed, when the "show" button is clicked. Not to mention that it still starts a slippery slope of what "basic level information" is. Every type of item? Every type of object? Every type of NPC species? Every type of obstacle? Amount of signs? Amount of trees? Amount of butterflies? Note how those got progressively more and more absurd. This is another thing I'm worried about. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:21, 1 May 2018 (EDT)

It could start a slippery slope, but I think that enemies is both basic enough (after all, it already has its own section in most articles) and unambiguous enough to have a list in the levelbox. Since we already have infoboxes with hideable contents, I don't see how adding collapsed contents here would be a problem if the contents are semantically suitable for an infobox (the point of contention). --The Retro Gamer 13:33, 1 May 2018 (EDT)

Part 2: What should be included in enemies lists?

I think enemy lists should include counts, because that helps define the level: a level with one throwaway enemy is quite different from a level heavily populated by a certain enemy. As a corollary to this point, I have removed my vote from my original main option of the other proposal, since enemy counts as a defining factor in the level means they probably deserve their own section. Obviously, implementing this would be a long-term process, but I think if we're already listing the enemies, it's not too hard to gradually add the counts (and situational specifications, like counts in different versions) as well.

Proposer: The Retro Gamer (talk) Deadline: May 8, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Include enemy link and enemy counts

1. The Retro Gamer (talk) (Proposer)

Only include enemy link

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.