MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
==Writing guidelines==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''


==New features==
==New features==
===Add minecraft.wiki as an interwiki link===
''None at the moment.''
This isn't so much a "feature" rather than a simple quality-of-life addition to the wiki. This proposal proposes to add an interwiki link to minecraft.wiki (i.e. <code><nowiki>[[minecraftwiki:]]</nowiki></code>), especially considering the multitude of subjects in ''[[Minecraft]]''{{'}}s Super Mario Mash-up pack with ''[[Super Mario (franchise)|Super Mario]]''-themed reskins. At the moment, when linking to articles on a Minecraft wiki, it is the most convenient to do so by means of using the {{tem|Fandom}} template to link to the Fandom wiki when there's a higher quality independent alternative available that a majority of the community has left to. I try to avoid adding direct urls into wiki articles in general. If there was an instance where someone added urls to minecraft.wiki throughout every article where it could apply, this would be a multitude of urls that one would have to manually fix, due to the Super Mario Mash-up pack existing.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
==Removals==
'''Deadline''': February 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT
''None at the moment.''


====Support====
==Changes==
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} As proposer.
===Split ''Wario Land: Shake It!'' bosses into boss levels===
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} Couldn't hurt, really. Per proposer.
This proposal is similar to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/41#Create separate articles for DKC series and DKL series boss levels|the one that passed]]. As you see, we have [[Motley Bossblob]] and [[Hisstocrat]] boss levels from ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', the boss levels from the [[Donkey Kong Country (series)|''Donkey Kong Country'' series]], even boss levels ''[[Yoshi's Crafted World]]'' where each boss guards a [[Dream Gem]]. Right now, you might be wondering how we can create separate articles for the ''[[Wario Land: Shake It!]]'' boss levels.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal
#{{User|Arend}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} <s>get bent fandom</s> Per all, if they split off from Fandom months ago, we should probably be linking to their independent wiki by now.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|Mario}} Considering that interwiki links are generally uncontroversial and I assume most of us hate that x-factorized spillway of an ad-infested radioactive dumpsite, I don't think a proposal is entirely necessary but it's still a valid way to request an added feature like that.
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} This makes a lot of sense to me, as it would let the wiki remain consistent when dealing with subjects that are not ''Super Mario''-related. Per proposal.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per proposal.


====Oppose====
According to the "<boss> → <boss level>" diagram, the following pages will be affected by the split:


====Comments====
*[[Rollanratl]] → [[Rollanratl Battle]]
If this proposal succeeds, I think we could as well try a proposal for adding the [https://raymanpc.com/wiki/en/ RayWiki] (e.g. <nowiki>[[raymanpc:]]</nowiki>) next, due to the ''Rayman'' series' relevance in ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' via the [[Rayman in the Phantom Show]] DLC. Casual reminder that we have interwiki for [[kovopedia:Main Page|Kovopedia]] (even though the ''Magical Vacation'' series has little to no relevance to the ''Super Mario'' franchise yet, even while taking ''Super Smash Bros'' into account) purely because it's a NIWA affiliate, so adding a Rayman wiki as an interwiki link would only be fair, and that's double as much so for adding a Minecraft one. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:39, January 28, 2024 (EST)
*[[Hot Roderick]] → [[Hot Roderick Race]]
:Yes, I agree with this. Why not make the proposal now or do you want me to do it? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 11:43, January 28, 2024 (EST)
*[[Chortlebot]] → [[Chortlebot Challenge]]
::I agree as well. We should definitely make a proposal for adding RayWiki interwiki links. It would serve the same purpose as the Minecraft wiki links, so why not? -- {{User:FanOfRosalina2007/sig}} 14:39, January 28, 2024 (EST)
*[[Bloomsday]] [[Bloomsday Blowout]]
*[[Large Fry]] [[Large Fry Cook-Off]]
*[[Shake King]] → [[VS the Shake King]]


===Create interwiki link for RayWiki===
Once this proposal passes, then we will be able to create separate articles for the ''Wario Land: Shake It!'' boss levels.
This is similar to, and inspired by the Minecraft.wiki interwiki link proposal above, but with the [https://raymanpc.com/wiki/en/ RayWiki] instead. The ''Rayman'' series has gotten relevance in the ''Super Mario'' franchise thanks to the [[Rayman in the Phantom Show]] DLC campaign for ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]''. The DLC campaign harbors a multitude of ''Rayman'' cameos and references, and currently, we can only link to articles of the most relevant wiki for ''Rayman'' using external weblinks, which... doesn't look all too great on an article, IMO.


Since this wiki has interwiki link support to wikis that are part of NIWA, but which series otherwise have little to no relevance to ''Super Mario'' in general (e.g. [[kovopedia:Main Page|Kovopedia]], a ''Magical Vacation'' wiki), I think it would be fair to have interwiki link support to wikis about franchises that ''are'' relevant to ''Super Mario'' in some way.
'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}} (banned)<br>
 
'''Deadline''': <s>June 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to July 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT
As for the interwiki link code, it could be something like <code><nowiki>[[raymanpc:]]</nowiki></code> (from the URL domain, since the RayWiki is hosted by the Rayman Pirate Community), simply <code><nowiki>[[raywiki:]]</nowiki></code> (from the wiki name itself), or both.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Arend}}<br>
'''Deadline''': February 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support====
#{{User|Arend}} Per proposal
#{{User|Hewer}} I guess this makes sense for consistency with coverage of other games, so per proposal.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per Arend. There are plenty of Rayman references throughout the DLC. What better way than to link to RayWiki for more information?
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I don't think this should even have to go through a proposal. All the other boss levels have their own pages.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Thank you for making this. I strongly agree to RayWiki being added.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal; it makes navigation easier and lines up with how we already handle it for other games. (And for the record, short articles are fine: see [[Bowser's Sourpuss Bread]], which succinctly explains its role rather than being padded out for length concerns.)
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} <s>get bent fandom. again</s> Per proposal--we should be acknowledging these independent wikis whenever possible, and Rayman has a notable enough presence for this template to make sense.
#{{user|Arend}} I suppose that makes sense. Per all.
#{{User|Mario}} I like this idea (also again I don't think we absolutely need proposals to effect this but just in case)
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all, and also, RayWiki seems to fully cover the Rabbids series, so this could be useful for other Mario + Rabbids content beyond just that DLC.
<s>#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal</s>
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per sticking it to Fandom (and per proposal).
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per proposal (though for some reason I'm getting error pages when I try to search anything in that wiki)
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per proposal.


====Oppose====
====Oppose====
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} While there is precedence, I just don't see this as necessary given the information is currently detailed on the existing pages without overcrowding them.


====Comments====
====Comments====
Wouldn't this be creating a bunch of stub articles? Is there sufficient information for all of these characters outside of their battles to warrant separate pages from their battles? For some bosses, I think this makes sense and I also think its good for the wiki to be consistent, but are we solving one "problem" and then creating twelve more by making twelve stub articles? {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 22:16, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Looking at "[[Special:ShortPages|Short Pages]], when it isn't being filled with small disambiguation articles, articles with imminent deletions, or ''[[Mario Kart Arcade GP]]'' items, even the shortest Wario articles don't really come close to the articles featured here. The shortest Wario-related article we could find isn't even as short as the recently-split ''[[Speed Mario Bros.]]''. While we aren't personally voting (we'd like to see an example draft of what the split articles look like before voting conclusively), we don't feel like article length is a particularly strong reason to be afraid when [[Pesky Billboard]] is an article so small that you could fit its textual content in a floppy disk's boot sector. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 23:46, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Also, "stub" doesn't mean "short page", it means "page with too little information". If there's not a lot to talk about, then it's perfectly fine for a page to be short and still be complete, so brevity doesn't automatically make it a stub. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 04:11, June 20, 2024 (EDT)


===Make a YouTube Disambiguation(!!!) page===
===Standardize sectioning for ''Super Mario'' series game articles===
[[File:Luigi Runs the Nintendo 2DS Factory for a Day.jpg|thumb|200px|Pictured: How we feel after trying to make a half-comprehensive list of YouTube videos by Nintendo.]]
I have been attempting to standardize the game articles for the ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' series on and off for the past few years. I think presenting information in a shared, unified way is beneficial for readers and passively communicates that these games are part of a shared series, something I think is helpful for a franchise covering so many genres and series. Game articles in the ''[[Yoshi's Island (series)|Yoshi's Island]]'' and ''[[Donkey Kong Country (series)|Donkey Kong Country]]'' series are similarly organized to one another. It is easy to jump from one article to another, information is where I'd expect it to be, and they look nice. Good stuff.
Before you hit "Oppose (edit)" and scream "NOT AGAIN", hear us out here.


YouTube, as a whole, almost certainly does ''not'' deserve an article to itself. Unless we were to make a sweeping move to create pages for every Social Media page associated with the Mario brand, or every video distribution platform that's released a Mario video on it, it would be very silly to do that... But that's not to say YouTube holds ''zero'' relevance to the Mario brand, and that having a page of some sort for it is a doomed concept.
At present, some ''Super Mario'' game articles adopt different organizational structures than others even though they cover the same types of subjects. (As examples, compare ''[[Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins]]'' to ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' and ''[[Super Mario Bros. Wonder]]''.) This proposal aims to standardize how they are all sectioned. I think it would be beneficial for their contents.


No, what we're thinking is more along the lines of a disambiguation page, a-la our proposal for [[Starfy]]. There are some things that we could be linking to via a catch-all YouTube article, and while we don't want to claim this list is comprehensive--Play Nintendo on its own is a ''massive'' rabbit hole--we do want to hopefully illustrate roughly what we could do with that, as well as acknowledge a few counter-arguments.
The sectioning I employ, in the order as laid out, is:


We make no claims that this is comprehensive, we know for a fact we left a few out, be it out of brevity, us not knowing about them, or good ol' fashioned laziness. But this is merely to illustrate just ''some'' of the YouTube videos with articles:
'''Characters''': living/sapient/friendly/neutral subjects that do not cause harm
* '''Playable characters''': characters controlled
* '''Non-playable characters''': characters that aren’t controlled
'''Enemies and obstacles''': subjects that damage or inhibit the player character
* '''Enemies''': living, often multi-membered creatures that occupy the general environment
* '''Obstacles''': abiotic and environmental subjects that cause damage or inhibit movement
* '''Bosses''': subjects that often take multiple hits to defeat and are chiefly major barriers to progression
'''Items and objects''': beneficial and neutral environmental subjects, mostly abiotic
* '''Items''': subjects that are absorbable/collectible, holdable, or health-restoring
* '''Power-ups''': items that transform the player character’s appearance and grant unique abilities
* '''Objects''': interactable subjects in the environment that are not items


* [[The Cat Mario Show]] - While some of these were on the eShop, with that closed they only are present on YouTube.
This sectioning arrangement has been integrated on the ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels]]'', ''[[Super Mario Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'', ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'', ''[[Super Mario 3D Land]]'', ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'', and ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]'' articles.
* [[Mario Myths with Mr Miyamoto]] - Promotional video created for ''[[Super Mario Maker]]'', hosted on various regional Nintendo YouTube channels.
* [[Luigi Runs the Nintendo 2DS Factory for a Day]] - Promotional video created for a set of color-swapped ''[[Nintendo 3DS|2DS]]'' consoles.
* [[Know Your Nintendo]] - On the Nintendo of America channel.
* [[List of Play Nintendo videos]] - While not every video is on YouTube, a good chunk of them are.
** [[Play Nintendo#The Play Nintendo Show|The Play Nintendo Show]] - An exclusive series to the Play Nintendo YouTube Channel. Has [[Izzy]], who was even an exclusive character to it.
** [[Mario Reads Your Letters]] - On the Play Nintendo channel.
** [[Baddies & Battles]] - On the Play Nintendo channel.
** [[Fun Lists! Lists! Lists!]] - On the Play Nintendo channel.
*** [[WarioWare: Get It Together! on Nintendo Switch – Top 10 Reasons to Play My Game!]] - On the Play Nintendo channel, speicifcally to promote ''[[WarioWare: Get It Together]]''!
** [[Mario Party Superstars Laugh Till You Pop]] - On the Play Nintendo Channel, specifically to promote ''[[Mario Party Superstars]]''.
** [[List of Play Nintendo Shorts]] - A reasonable companion to it, just videos that were on the Youtube channel's shorts section. Has anyone actually cared about YouTube Shorts? Whatever the case, this is pretty unambigously related to YouTube.
* [[Virus Vid]] - WAS on YouTube. After ''[[Dr. Mario World]]'' went kaput, these went private. We don't know exactly why this would prevent it from being on the disambiguation, but we figured we'd at least acknowledge it.
* ''(Currently, the Nintendo Switch Parental Controls - Nintendo Switch Presentation 2017 Trailer video lacks an article as of writing--if it had one, it would be fit for here.)''


...Look, you get the idea. There's a ''lot'' of YouTube videos related to Mario that we have articles for, and even more that we, as of proposal, don't. This would be both a good resource for quickly finding these without having to plunder the rat's nest of Play Nintendo articles, as well as hopefully bring more attention to the videos that currently do not have articles. This list isn't even comprehensive, mind you, and the scope itself could honestly be increased to even include various promotional pieces that were hosted on YouTube for games like ''[[Wario Land: Shake It!]]'' or ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]''; though this is definitely something for a future proposal, so let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet and say we'll leave it exclusively to videos made ''for'' YouTube, ''by'' Nintendo, ''about'' Mario.
Because of the tactile nature of platformers, I like organizing subjects based on their mechanical relationship to the player character, so I keep bosses organized with enemies and obstacles because they all hurt the player. It is also thematically appropriate, because at least some bosses are usually rulers of an enemy species in the same section. I do not like using terms that have strong connotations outside of gaming like "cast" or "antagonist". (I particularly do not like using "antagonist" here because these platformers are not chiefly driven by narrative, so the fact that some bosses also serve antagonistic narrative roles is of lesser importance to their tactile roles as bosses.) "Characters" is more neutral, I think. I also do not separate "returning enemies" from "new ones". I'd rather delineate that information in one shared table, [[Super Mario Galaxy#Enemies|like so]]. It keeps related enemy species next to each other regardless of whether they're new.


We're also hoping this could potentially instigate better preservation for these videos; already, stuff like Virus Vid is vanishing from YouTube, only existing via Twitter and unofficial re-uploads since Nintendo privated the videos after ''Dr. Mario World'' went belly-up. And on the one hand, we get it--Play Nintendo isn't exactly the zenith of Nintendo's marketing. But it also makes us a little upset knowing we might only have a limited time to cover these things, and what's more is that there's possibly even stuff we've ''already'' missed out on that's lost to time.
I don't envision this sectioning being applied rigidly, and this is apparent in some of the articles I linked to above. There aren't really enough items in ''Super Mario Land'' for them to be severed from power-ups, so I lumped them together in one table there. Both ''Super Mario Sunshine'' and ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' include a "rideable characters" section, and there is a "clothing" section between "Items" and "objects" in ''Super Mario Odyssey''. Rather, I would like this sectioning to be a jumping off point, from which users can manipulate and change things as needed. No two games are exactly the same, after all.


'''Addendum:''' As a few people have pointed out, a category may also suffice--so we've added an option for that as well. We think this'd also suffice, personally.
I offer four options.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Camwoodstock}}<br>
#'''Support: I like this! Let's do it''' (if this passes, this sectioning arrangement will be integrated into the remaining ''Super Mario'' game articles)
'''Deadline''': February 4th, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#'''Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently''' (if this one passes, a second proposal would be raised by the voters that outline their preferred organizational scheme)
#'''Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy''' (this option is basically the "do nothing" option)
#'''Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed'''


====Support (make a YouTube disambiguation page)====
'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - You saw that list. We wouldn't have compiled this if we didn't feel as though there was potential for this to be a disambiguation page.
'''Deadline''': July 3rd, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support (make a YouTube category)====
====Support: I like this! Let's do it====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - We think this is also fine as well, especially since as people have pointed out, there are a ''lot'' of videos that already have articles.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} If the idea is to just have all of this easily accessible from one place, a category makes more sense than a disambig that's not really a disambig.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Consistency is never a bad thing.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Waluigi Time, "disambiguation" feels like a bit of a misnomer here.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} I guess if this ought to be a proposal, then sure, per proposal.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per proposal
#{{User|Tails777}} This is the truest example of the phrase "Let em cook" I've ever seen. Most of those streaming services kinda felt iffy, but a category for YouTube series feels like a better idea stemming from it all. Per all.
#{{User|Big Super Mario Fan}} Per proposal.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all. Consistency is good.
#{{User|RetroNintendo2008}} Per all.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per all, makes it much easier when reading between game pages.


====Oppose====
====Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently====


====Comments====
====Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy====
How would this be preferred over, say, creating a category for YouTube? What will this accomplish that [[:Category:Videos]] cannot? {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:05, January 28, 2024 (EST)
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - I see page layouts as an organically changing thing, it's best to not create guidelines where they needn't exist. I'm fine with the pages being changed to follow this pattern, but it shouldn't require an additional proposal to change further.
: ...Admittedly, we didn't think much of a category, which we realize sounds very unlike us considering recent events--we promise, we had this written ''before'' a lot of the category conundrums happened! We could potentially add an option to create a category over a disambiguation page if that'd be appreciated. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:06, January 28, 2024 (EST)
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick.
::I don't think a disambiguation page is a good idea, but I'd be pro-category. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 22:16, January 28, 2024 (EST)
:::Seconding this. If we were to make a disambiguation page, and then proceed to have every noteworthy Mario-related YouTube video in said page, it would be too big to not be just a category. --[[User:OmegaRuby|OmegaRuby]] ([[User talk:OmegaRuby|talk]]) 09:23, January 29, 2024 (EST)


I understand why a list of videos like this might be useful to have, but I don't get why it's being called a "disambiguation" here. This wouldn't be a list of things that the term YouTube could refer to, it would be a list of YouTube videos. Why not make it an article called "List of official YouTube videos" or something along those lines? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:38, January 28, 2024 (EST)
====Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed====
: We're a little less keen on a List article, if for no other reason than a ''lot'' of the videos have unique articles; we feel like it'd be a little silly to make a full "List of" article if almost every entry would have a "Main article:" tab at the start of it, y'know? We'd understand it more if these videos didn't already have pre-established articles, but as it stands, we feel a disambiguation just works better for a page. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:43, January 28, 2024 (EST)
::I was picturing more [[List of Play Nintendo skill quizzes|something like this]] type of list article, with a table and links to the individual pages. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:47, January 28, 2024 (EST)


I see the new option. How will [[:Category:Videos]] be affected? {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:18, January 29, 2024 (EST)
====Comments on standardize sectioning for ''Super Mario'' series game articles====
:...That's a category??? And we thought we had seen everything. We think there could be potential to rework "video" as a category seeing as that's such a generic term, but also considering the current state of the category as well as the state for other non-web video categories (namely film and television series), we're not sure what the best course of action is. We could maybe convert Video into something like our baseline Games category is at the moment, but we feel like that might start leaving the scope of this proposal... {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:09, January 29, 2024 (EST)
These sound like good ideas, but do they need a proposal? Proposal rule 15: "Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages." {{User:Hewer/sig}} 19:39, June 26, 2024 (EDT)
:I originally did not plan on doing so, but {{User|EvieMaybe}} recommended I raise one. I supposed it was a good way to assess how other folks think game articles should be organized. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:45, June 26, 2024 (EDT)


==Removals==
===Allow colorful tables again===
===Allow staff warnings to be appealed===
Recently, there's been an update to follow [[Help:Table]] that standardizes all the colorful tables into boring, white-and-gray ones. I personally don't like this: not only is it removing a bit of charm from the site, the colored boxes are legitimately helpful at a glance and make it easier to distinguish individual sections in these large chunks of data.
See [[MarioWiki:Appeals]]


Appeals haven't been widely practiced in the wiki lately, but I think it's better to act sooner and also gauge a consensus on this. Rule 1 states: ''"Reminders and/or Warnings given by an administrator or patroller cannot be appealed."'' The rationale behind the rule is likely to focus on admin backrooms to discuss matters pertaining to decisions by admins and minimize drama. However, this runs squarely against the spirit of the wiki. We establish very clearly in [[MarioWiki:Administrators]]:
Take [[Rock-Candy Mines]], a world from ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' and ''[[New Super Luigi U]]''. Here are two versions of the level lists:


<blockquote>
----
In general, administrators are not imbued with any special authority and are equal to everyone else in terms of editorial responsibility. Staff members' votes and opinions are given equal weight to regular users in proposals, featured article nominations, or any other democratic process or informal discussion.
</blockquote>


This sort of rule was likely intended to prevent users from causing a scene (see [[MarioWiki_talk:Appeals#Rule_1|a discussion questioning the validity of it]]) but it squarely contradicts the above statement which makes our commitment to valuing all users questionable, if not insincere. This kind of rule instead potentially stifles good faith discussion made by users to staff and might help foster distrust in staff, something that won't work well for a collaborative wiki. Additionally, MarioWiki:Appeals already requires users to keep discussions civil, so possible bad faith appeals are already covered, and lengthy exchanges are already discouraged.
{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%; margin: 0 auto 10px auto; border-collapse: collapse; font-family:Arial;"border="1"cellpadding="1"cellspacing="1"
|-style="background: #0097CB;"
!width="5%"|Level Number
!width="3%"|Level Name
!width="20%"|Description
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
|[[Fuzzy Clifftop]]
|This is a clifftop level that features [[Yoshi]], [[Fruit (Yoshi food)|Fruits]] and [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
|[[Porcupuffer Falls]]
|Another cliff level over the water, where [[Porcupuffer]]s attack. Many [[Urchin]]s can be found, too.
|-
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
|[[Grinding-Stone Tower]]
|The sixth and final tower where [[Boom Boom]] is the boss, the final instance he is fought. The main enemies in this tower are [[Grrrol]]s.
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|[[Waddlewing's Nest]]
|This level features [[Chain Chomp]]s, [[Waddlewing]]s and tilting stands.
|}


People should be allowed to openly critique our performance in good faith of course (bad faith ones will still be dealt with in our [[MarioWiki:Courtesy]]; that being said, I also have my eyes set on rewriting the corresponding policies concerning "undermining admin authority" to encourage constructive criticism). If we're supposed to treat admins as equal to everyone else, at least we should invite good faith criticisms for decisions that staff has made, not make some ultimately arbitrary delineation between ''who'' gives out a warning and then also proclaim staff isn't that special.
{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%; margin: 0 auto 10px auto; border-collapse: collapse; font-family:Arial;"border="1"cellpadding="1"cellspacing="1"
 
|-style="background: #43DD3B;"
Affected pages (if there are pages I missed, please mention; they'll likely be dealt accordingly, however, since this is a simple proposed change):
!width="5%"|Level Number
*[[MarioWiki:Appeals]]: Rule 1 will be removed
!width="3%"|Level Name
*[[MarioWiki:Administrators]]: "''<s>While warnings given to users by an admin or patroller cannot be appealed,</s> [T]he other staff members additionally have the ability to overturn any unwarranted warnings or blocks if they see fit.''"  
!width="20%"|Description
*[[:Template:Reminder]]: "''If this reminder was not issued by an administrator or patroller and you feel it was undeserved, you may appeal it.''"<br>⬇️changed to⬇️ <br> "''If you feel this reminder was undeserved, you may appeal it.''"  
|-
*[[:Template:Warning]]: "''If this warning was not issued by an administrator or patroller and you feel it was undeserved, you may appeal it.''"<br>⬇️changed to⬇️ <br> "''If you feel this warning was undeserved, you may appeal it.''"  
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
*[[:Template:Lastwarn]]: "''If this last warning was not issued by an administrator or patroller and you feel it was undeserved, you may appeal it.''"<br>⬇️changed to⬇️ <br> "''If you feel this last warning was undeserved, you may appeal it.''"
|[[Mount Fuzzy]]
*[[MarioWiki:Warning policy]]: "''If you were given a warning/reminder for discourteous behavior that you feel should have only merited an unofficial notice as outlined above, you can appeal to have the template removed. However, keep in mind that excessive impolite or disruptive behavior may earn you a warning right off the bat; if the administrators feel that you should have known better than to act the way you did even without an unofficial request to stop, your warning will not be removed. <s>You cannot appeal a warning given by an administrator or patroller; if one is deemed inappropriately given, it will be handled within the staff team accordingly.</s>''"
|An overworld level with some [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
**Q. I don't think I deserve my warning. What should I do?<br>A. If you feel you don't deserve the warning, you have the option to appeal it <s>as long as the warning in question was not given by an administrator</s>. When appealing warnings, it is best to do so as soon as possible.
|-
 
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
Staff will still have the ability to overturn any warning at any notice, and bad appeals toward staff (like ''any'' bad appeal in general especially to experienced long-term users who aren't staff) will probably still be archived swiftly and hopefully without too much drama. If this kind of clarification is needed, then please do state it and I'll make the changes.
|[[Porcupuffer Cavern]]
 
|An underground level with low water level and a [[Porcupuffer]].
'''Proposer''': {{User|Mario}}<br>
|-
'''Deadline''': February 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
 
|[[Smashing-Stone Tower]]
====Support====
|A tower full of [[Brick Block|blocks]] destroyable only by [[Grrrol]]s.
#{{User|Mario}} M.
|-
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Yes, THANK YOU. After a certain ''recent incident'', I'm also questioning the "don't give reminders to staff" rule.
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} I honestly don't recall seeing a (formal) warning issued wrongly by an admin--if that ever happened, it was probably in the very early years of the wiki, when sysop responsibilities weren't outlined as well as today and the young'uns who achieved that position were obviously prone to mishandle it. For the past decade, the admins around here have actually performed their job quite commendably. That said, I very much agree with the principle behind this proposal that the administration shouldn't affect an air of mystique to bar regular users from questioning them; ensuring that users defer to a good conduct and a set of editing rules, a significant part of which was established by the community at large, doesn't mean that your judgement is impeccable and that your word is final.
|[[Spike's Seesaws]]
#{{User|Swallow}} This is certainly a lot more fair.
|A level with tilting platforms attacked by [[Spike]]s.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} I do think this is the fairest way to handle formal reminders and warnings.
|}
#{{User|Axis}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Drago}} Blocks can already be appealed to the rest of the staff via e-mail, so it makes sense for admin warnings to also be appealable. I do think successful appeals against admin warnings will be rare though.
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} Well, you see, I think we should definitely make MarioWiki more equal for everyone. The people will run the wiki, everyone gets equal pay, free healthcare, etc. etc. This will be the way to achieve prosperity and happiness. It will be a people's wiki renowned all over the internet. Per all.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} You can guess what my position is considering I was the highlighted comment in this proposal.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Probably for the best, since abuse can and occasionally ''does'' happen at any level of the power hierarchy.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} How has this ''not'' been done already??? Per all, sometimes people get misjudged and sometimes people change, so it's probably for the best we account for that rather than allow one warning to just stick around forever.
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Yes, we absolutely need to do this! Just because a warning is issued by a staff member and not a regular user, it shouldn't mean that you can't appeal said warning. It wouldn't be fair at all! Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all (this rule is probably a reason why the appeal system doesn't get used much).
#{{User|PnnyCrygr}} Equality counts.
#{{User|YoYo}} any site that has a "staff have final word and you can't say anything about it" rule is always a red flag.
 
====Oppose====


====Comments====
----
Doc von Schmeltwick: The ability to give these notices to staff will probably require further discussion (this one is a bit more contentious to me). I think situations involving a staff member should be dealt with via civil criticism rather than warning/reminder templates (it's not like blocking can be really enforced on members who have blocking tools, so these warning templates toward staff have little practical use anyway; removing staff tools would require intervention by other staff ultimately). We did say the most appropriate venues for criticizing staff, usually through forum DMs or Discord DMs. You can bring it up in [[MarioWiki talk:Warning policy]] or [[MarioWiki talk:Courtesy]]. {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:20, January 27, 2024 (EST)


Koopa con Carne, Drago: Yeah I'm not expecting appeals on these decisions to be successful, since staff members already have good judgement most of the time, but I think it helps to at least signal to users that we give them a chance for a fair hearing first. There is always a chance they have a point or so which would be valuable feedback. We don't want to bar opportunity like that. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:04, January 27, 2024 (EST)
{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%" class=wikitable
 
!width="5%"|Level number
You know, it's kinda funny: the policies keep specifying that you cannot appeal a reminder or warning given by patrollers or administrators, but for the longest time, I could've sworn that reminders and warnings could've ''only been given'' by patrollers or administrators anyway, because they have been given the authority to block you and thus should also know when someone is breaking the rules. I, at least, hadn't really noticed a time that a normal registered user has given a warning to another normal registered user before, even though the current warning policy states they can do so (a detail, I should stress, I discovered just today). {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:55, January 28, 2024 (EST)
!width="3%"|Level name
:Honestly their powers are more limited than you think. Warnings and reminders set a kind of record and then block is the final step. It would be easier for all of us if normal users can help advise others what rules they're breaking. I have noticed a few times normal users given out reminders and warnings, but I suppose some staff members are active really often and are keeping more dibs on other users so probably they're on the scene sooner and more frequently. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:52, January 28, 2024 (EST)
!width="20%"|Description
 
|-
Hewer: There actually has been like several attempts from the past couple of years, but have been removed due to rule 1.[https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Appeals?action=history] Sure, they probably should've read the warning templates first before proceeding but it doesn't mean the rule itself is valid IMO. If you were the one issuing the exact same kind of warning and reminder, these cases would've been heard and decided; kind of easily shows the useless distinction. Besides, I add: it would certainly help to get second opinion of another staff member too, like another perspective, so it would still be beneficial for staff if we removed Rule 1. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:52, January 28, 2024 (EST)
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
 
|[[Fuzzy Clifftop]]
==Changes==
|This is a clifftop level that features [[Yoshi]], [[Fruit (Yoshi food)|Fruits]] and [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
===Broaden the scope of the <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki> template===
|-
Currently, the licensing template used for photographs uploaded to the wiki is [[:Template:Promo-photo]], henceforth referred to as <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki>. All photographs uploaded to the wiki are listed under the template's corresponding category, [[:Category:Promotional photos]]. This template is supposedly only meant to be used for publicity photos "known to have come from a press kit"; however, a ''lot'' of the photos in this category, most commonly images of [[List of merchandise|merchandise]], were taken by ordinary people who have no relation to a formal organization for news or media distribution; to put it simply, many images with this template don't come from a press kit.
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
 
|[[Porcupuffer Falls]]
I'm convinced that <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki> is simply the equivalent of Wikipedia's {{wp|Template:Non-free promotional}}, which went largely unchanged when it was copied to the Super Mario Wiki. However, the wikis are significantly different in their media policies: Wikipedia is {{wp|Wikipedia:File copyright tags/Non-free|far more strict}} on usage of copyrighted media than this wiki, which is centered around a copyrighted franchise. More importantly, it just doesn't feel right that <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki>'s description doesn't match the majority of images which use it. I was originally thinking of creating a separate template to address this, but I realized that the issue could be entirely solved without needing to update the template used by hundreds of photos: instead, just change the description of the existing template to more accurately describe the images which use it.
|Another cliff level over the water, where [[Porcupuffer]]s attack. Many [[Urchin]]s can be found, too.
 
|-
This is what the <nowiki>{{promo-photo}}</nowiki> template currently looks like:
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
<pre>
|[[Grinding-Stone Tower]]
{| class="notice-template copyright"
|The sixth and final tower where [[Boom Boom]] is the boss, the final instance he is fought. The main enemies in this tower are [[Grrrol]]s.
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]]
|-
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' publicity photograph of a person, product, or event that is '''known to have come from a press kit''' or similar source, for the purpose of reuse by the media. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]].
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|}<includeonly>[[Category:Promotional photos]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:File copyright tags]]</noinclude>
|[[Waddlewing's Nest]]
</pre>
|This level features [[Chain Chomp]]s, [[Waddlewing]]s and tilting stands.
{| class="notice-template copyright"
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]]
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' publicity photograph of a person, product, or event that is '''known to have come from a press kit''' or similar source, for the purpose of reuse by the media. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]].
|}
|}


If this proposal passes, this is what the template would be changed to:
{|style="text-align: center; width: 100%" class=wikitable
<pre>
!width="5%"|Level Number
{| class="notice-template copyright"
!width="3%"|Level Name
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]]
!width="20%"|Description
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' photograph of a person, product, or event that either '''originates from a press kit''' or similar source for the purpose of reuse by the media, or otherwise '''illustrates a copyrighted work'''. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]].
|-
|}<includeonly>[[Category:Promotional photos]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:File copyright tags]]</noinclude>
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-1'''
</pre>
|[[Mount Fuzzy]]
{| class="notice-template copyright"
|An overworld level with some [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]].
| [[File:Copyright.svg|48px|Copyrighted promotional photo]]
|-
| This work is a '''[[wikipedia:Copyright|copyrighted]]''' photograph of a person, product, or event that either '''originates from a press kit''' or similar source for the purpose of reuse by the media, or otherwise '''illustrates a copyrighted work'''. It is believed that the use of this photograph to illustrate the '''person''', '''product''', or '''event in question''', in the absence of a free alternative, qualifies as [[wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] under [[wikipedia:Copyright law of the United States|United States copyright law]].
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-2'''
|[[Porcupuffer Cavern]]
|An underground level with low water level and a [[Porcupuffer]].
|-
|'''{{world|Rocky|tower}}'''
|[[Smashing-Stone Tower]]
|A tower full of [[Brick Block|blocks]] destroyable only by [[Grrrol]]s.
|-
|'''Rock-Candy Mines-3'''
|[[Spike's Seesaws]]
|A level with tilting platforms attacked by [[Spike]]s.
|}
|}


This description would be substantially broad enough so that the template could continue being used for photos of copyrighted merchandise, as well as photos illustrating miscellaneous copyrighted works that cannot be categorized by other templates, such as [[:File:Mario Demo Statue.jpg|this statue of Mario]] (which is not a product, as it was never for sale), all while describing the content of the images truthfully. Please feel free to comment if you have a better idea for a new description for the template.
The only concern I can see is that black-on-blue text might be a bit hard to read, but we can change the text color to white, like some articles [[Not-Bottomless Hole|already do]]. It's a lot easier to tell with the colored header. If someone is just scrolling through the article to find the levels, the blue and green will catch their eye and they can easily know which game is which. The specific blue and green are distinctly featured on the games' logos and boxes:
 
<gallery>
'''Proposer''': {{User|ThePowerPlayer}}<br>
NSMBU boxcover.png
'''Deadline''': February 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT
NSLU NA Box Art.png
 
</gallery>
====Support====
#{{User|Mario}} I like this idea.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} I've wanted something like this for years.
#{{User|Hewer}} This is more accurate, per proposal.
 
====Oppose====
 
====Comments====
Don't forget the parameters of you starting the proposal and putting a deadline for it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:38, January 28, 2024 (EST)
 
Anyway I use promotional photo for some merchandise images because the recent images are official stock photos meant to be put in online storefronts or in catalogues and whatnot, e.g. "promoted". I wasn't aware there was supposed to be a stricter definition applied to it. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:40, January 28, 2024 (EST)
:Those types of official stock photos do fall under the current description from the template, and in my opinion, they should be used whenever possible; however, take a look at [[:Category:Merchandise images]]. There's a distinction between promotional photos displayed on online storefronts that have the license to sell the product displayed (such as [[:File:Mario - SMAS Plush.jpg|this photo of a Mario plush]]), versus a photo of no official capacity taken in someone's house (such as [[:File:Banpresto SM64 Wing Mario.png|this photo]]). Sometimes the latter is necessary to use because the former doesn't exist, which is why the aim of the proposal is to broaden the template so it can cover both official and unofficial merchandise photos. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 21:41, January 28, 2024 (EST)
 
===Decide how to format the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template and update citation guidelines accordingly===
Now that [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65#Create two specific citation templates|this proposal]] has instated the creation of a single <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template for citations, it's time to decide how this template should be formatted.
 
In my opinion, for this citation template to be the most effective and convenient for users, it should match existing policy on the [[MarioWiki:Citations]] page as closely as possible. This is for two reasons:
*The first reason is to avoid [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Create_a_template_for_citations|misguided claims]] of the template including excessive amounts of detail, leading to a feeling that an overly complicated format is being forced onto users.
*The second reason is so that currently existing citations can remain as they are, without the templates needing to be retroactively applied to them.
 
Remember, the goal of this template in the first place is to make it more convenient for users to follow citation guidelines. That being said, to do so requires that such guidelines are outlined clearly, and the current state of the MarioWiki:Citations page is highly ambiguous in some places. For example, one significant issue I have with the page is that the first citation of a physical book (which is supposedly from the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' manual) is completely different from the later citation of a ''Super Mario RPG'' guidebook:
<blockquote>"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisici elit, sed eiusmod tempor incidunt ..." ~ ''Super Mario Sunshine'' manual, page 9.</blockquote>
<blockquote>Miller, K. 1996. ''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide'', pg 13.</blockquote>
 
I see this template as an opportunity to clarify these inconsistenties once and for all, so if this proposal passes, I'm imposing the condition that not only should the MarioWiki:Citations page be updated to include an explanation on how to use the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template, but all of the citation examples on that page should be updated to fit the format described below, for consistency's sake.
 
Here's ''exactly'' what I think the templates should look like in MediaWiki code, as well as descriptions of each of the parameters:
<pre>
{{cite
| author      =
| date        =
| title      =
| publisher  =
| isbn        =
| page        =
| accessdate  =
| quote      =
| archive   =
| archivedate =
}}
</pre>
'''<u>Parameters for all citations:</u>'''<br>These parameters should always be included whenever possible.
*'''Author:''' The full name in (Lastname, Firstname) format ''or'' the username of whoever wrote the content of the source. Separate fields for the author's first name and last name are too confusing, since users could easily fill out the template as (Firstname, Lastname) by accident, not to mention the exceptions of a username or if the author is a collective (e.g. the author of an article is listed only as "Nintendo").
*'''Date:''' The date the book or page was published, e.g. "January 1, 2000".
**If the format "YYYY-MM-DD" is entered, it should be automatically converted to the preceding format, but typing plain text should also work.
*'''Title:''' The title of the source. If citing a web page, this field should also be a link to the page itself.
*'''Publisher:''' The publisher of the book, or the website on which the web page was found.
'''<u>Parameters for a specific citation type:</u>'''
*'''ISBN:''' For physical books only, the {{wp|ISBN}} of the book.
*'''Page:''' For physical books only, the page number on which the citation was found.
**Formatted as a number in code, but should be displayed in plain English, i.e. "Page 12.", for simplicity.
*'''Access date:''' For web pages only, the date at which the source was accessed, e.g. "January 1, 2000". This is to preserve the state of the web page at that time, since unlike physical media, web pages can change at any point.
'''<u>Optional parameters:</u>'''<br>These parameters should only be included if relevant to the citation.
*'''Quote:''' A brief excerpt from the book or web page providing more context to the citation. Using quotes should be encouraged because it allows readers to see evidence behind a claim quickly and directly on the wiki itself, rather than needing to seek out the evidence in question in order to prove that it has not been fabricated.
**I chose to use "&ndash;" to separate the quote and the rest of the citation, since I have ''never'' seen any quote citation on the wiki use the tilde (~), as is supposedly recommended by guidelines. If there is evidence to support using a different symbol, please let me know in the comments.
**Also, I was originally under the impression that the excerpted text in the quote should be italicized, but that is seemingly not the case in e.g. [https://guides.library.unr.edu/mlacitation/intextcitation the MLA style guide], so currently, the quoted text remains un-italicized. Again, please comment if you disagree.
*'''Archive:''' A link to a web archive of an online source. Must also include the "archive date" field if used.
**The beginning of the URL should be automatically analyzed to determine which web archive was used (Wayback Machine or archive.today), and accordingly append the archived link with either "via Wayback Machine" or "via archive.today", respectively.
*'''Archive date:''' The date at which the URL was archived.
**If given in the same format as a Wayback Machine URL (e.g. "20210309100159") or the string of text in the top right corner of an archive.today page (e.g. "13 Aug 2022 13:51:45 UTC"), it should automatically be converted to the correct format, and it should stay that way in wiki code after the page is saved, like the timestamp template ("<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>").
 
Here is what the citations on MarioWiki:Citations should look like, with the template code followed by what is displayed on the page (note that an advantage of using a template is that as long as the parameter names are specified, they can be typed in any order):
 
<pre>
{{cite
|date=August 26, 2002
|title=''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' North American instruction booklet
|publisher=Nintendo
|page=7
|quote=It's up to Mario to clean up the mess on Isle Delfino, solve puzzles, and defeat enemies in order to gather the scattered Shine Sprites.}}
</pre>
<blockquote>"It's up to Mario to clean up the mess on Isle Delfino, solve puzzles, and defeat enemies in order to gather the scattered Shine Sprites." &ndash; (August 26, 2002). ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' North American instruction booklet. ''Nintendo''. Page 7.</blockquote>
(Note: I updated this specific citation to an actual, verifiable quote from the text, because the irony of using a fabricated quote for citation guidelines doesn't sit right with me.)
 
<pre>
{{cite
|author=Campbell, Evan
|date=July 17, 2014
|title=[http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/the-cat-mario-show-announced The Cat Mario Show Announced]
|publisher=IGN
|accessdate=July 22, 2014}}
</pre>
<blockquote>Campbell, Evan (July 17, 2014). [http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/the-cat-mario-show-announced The Cat Mario Show Announced]. ''IGN''. Retrieved July 22, 2014.</blockquote>
 
<pre>
{{cite
|author=Nintendo
|date=January 14, 2015
|title=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L69Z39bgdU4 Wii U - Mario Party 10 Trailer]
|publisher=YouTube
|accessdate=April 26, 2015}}
</pre>
<blockquote>Nintendo (January 14, 2015). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L69Z39bgdU4 Wii U - Mario Party 10 Trailer]. ''YouTube''. Retrieved April 26, 2015.</blockquote>
 
<pre>
{{cite
|title=[http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html Smash Bros. DOJO!!]
|publisher=Nintendo
|accessdate=June 14, 2010}}
</pre>
<blockquote>[http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html Smash Bros. DOJO!!]. ''Nintendo''. Retrieved June 14, 2010.</blockquote>
 
<pre>
{{cite
|author=Nintendo
|date=1985
|title=[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf ''Super Mario Bros.'' Instruction Booklet
|accessdate=July 28, 2021
|archive=https://web.archive.org/web/20210309100159/http://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf
|archivedate=20210309100159}}
</pre>
<blockquote>Nintendo (1985). [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf ''Super Mario Bros.'' Instruction Booklet]. Retrieved July 8, 2021. ([https://web.archive.org/web/20210309100159/http://www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manuals/en/pdf/CLV-P-NAAAE.pdf Archived] March 9, 2021, 10:01:59 UTC via Wayback Machine.)</blockquote>
 
<pre>
{{cite
|author=Miller, Kent
|date=1996
|title=''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide''
|page=13}}
</pre>
<blockquote>Miller, Kent (1996). ''Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Nintendo Player's Guide''. Page 13.</blockquote>
 
Here is what a citation that uses the ISBN parameter would look like, with the ISBN placed in between the publisher and the page number, in order to distinguish the book uniquely before stating the page number within that book:
<pre>
{{cite
|author=Wessel, Craig
|title=''Warioland 4''
|publisher=Scholastic
|isbn=0-439-36711-5
|page=63
|quote=I hate sand, but what I hate even more was that there was no treasure in sight!}}
</pre>
<blockquote>"I hate sand, but what I hate even more was that there was no treasure in sight!" &ndash; Wessel, Craig. ''Warioland 4''. ''Scholastic''. ISBN 0-439-36711-5. Page 63.</blockquote>
 
I can think of one exception where standardized formatting beyond this may or may not be optimal, that being citing {{wp|Twitter|Twitter / X}} posts, but that warrants its own proposal; I have such a proposal in the works, but I'll only release it after a consensus is reached here.
 
When actually using this template in an article, it should be included ''within'' the <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki> tags, to ensure that naming the references works as always per the "How to add references" section of the citation guidelines.


Finally, I want to conclude by emphasizing that '''this is not a required template'''; it's simply a method of making citations easier and more standardized. If this proposal passes, a disclaimer should be added to MarioWiki:Citations stating that using the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> template is encouraged, but not required, and if a citation is better expressed without the template, then just manually typing something within the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags is completely okay.
The standardization of the templates also really harms articles like ''[[Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island]]'': compare the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Super_Mario_World_2:_Yoshi%27s_Island&oldid=4128148#Bosses colored navbox] revision to the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Super_Mario_World_2:_Yoshi%27s_Island&oldid=4277340 current], and it looks more inconsistent because the levels section is still using a unique format and color. Also compare [[Pi'illo]], an item list: [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Pi%27illo&oldid=4283314 colored revision] vs. [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Pi%27illo&oldid=4283342 standardized revision]. I don't mind that the colors aren't official wiki standard because they're not arbitrary: they clearly correspond to the area, and lists for this game use the same colors for the same areas. Even so, it's still useful to ''have'' different colors because you can scroll through the article and easily know when one list ends and another begins.


Please feel free to comment on this proposal if you have any recommendations of your own.
Some lists are also heavily dependent on color to distinguish areas with colors ''specifically used in-game'', such as [[List of ? Blocks in Paper Mario: The Origami King]] or [[List of ? Blocks in Paper Mario: Color Splash]]. Standardizing these would make them much less usable. I don't care if we need to make the colors specifically approved or consistent on a per-game basis, I just want them back. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 20:51, July 1, 2024 (EDT)


'''EDIT:''' Per Super Mario RPG's recommendation, added the ISBN parameter.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Scrooge200}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT


'''Proposer''': {{User|ThePowerPlayer}}<br>
====Support: Allow colors====
'''Deadline''': February 5, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per proposal. Not only is it more aesthetically pleasing, but it is also easier to read. I do, however, agree we should look into somehow standardizing colors, like what we do with [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive]].
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. Just because they weren't standardized heavily isn't a very good reason to default to "plain ol' gray". In addition, while this is admittedly an "us" issue, we do find it annoying how similar the two grays actually are when we're scrolling quickly--the higher contrast provided by the colors helps to quell that issue.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal, and per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} I am a very simple man; I enjoy colorful things. But in all seriousness, I feel it helps make sections stand out and could make them easier to identify when reading. Per proposal.
#{{User|Meester Tweester}}  Per proposal.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Fun and look nice. It's also nice to give users some breathing room with what they want to try integrating into the articles they work on.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per proposal.
#{{User|RetroNintendo2008}} Per all.


====Support====
====Oppose: Prioritize gray====
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Colors are based on arbitrary choice and not by official merit. I think there can be a system where there are exceptions to allow for certain colored tables on a case by case basis, but allowing it in absolutely every single case is overdoing it.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Yes, thank you for making this follow-up proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Mario}} I like this idea!
#{{User|GuntherBB}} Per all.
 
====Oppose====


====Comments====
====Comments====
I know it may seem unnecessary, but can an [[wikipedia:Help:ISBN|ISBN]] be added as an (obviously optional) parameter to the template? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 07:10, January 29, 2024 (EST)
@Super Mario RPG: [[Chestnut Valley]], [[List_of_hidden_Toads_in_Paper_Mario:_The_Origami_King#Blue_streamer]], [[Not-Bottomless_Hole#Blue_Streamer]], [[List_of_Collectible_Treasures_in_Paper_Mario:_The_Origami_King#Blue_streamer]], [[List_of_%3F_Blocks_in_Paper_Mario:_The_Origami_King#Blue_streamer]] all use the exact same colors. And it's because this is a blue streamer area in game, so it makes logical sense; I will usually color pick directly from sprites to get the right color codes. I don't really see where the "arbitrary" part is coming from. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 21:14, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
:As an optional parameter, it sounds perfectly applicable - I've added it to the proposal. {{User:ThePowerPlayer/sig}} 08:34, January 29, 2024 (EST)
 
===Consistent formatting for the Other Languages section===
Alright, so since this is starting to get really annoying, I'm going to put this proposal here. Here are two inconsistent ways that the meaning of names in the "Names In Other Languages" section are listed on the wiki:
1. "name" (meaning)
2. ''name'' ("meaning")


Now, almost all the pages on the wiki already have option 1 for their formatting, but for some reason some other users think that they they should all be changed to look like option 2, even though option 1 already works just fine and there's no point in putting asterisks between words if they're already in between paragraphs. But, what do you guys think, which way of displaying the Other Names section do you think would be better?
To be fair, even the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Help:Table&oldid=4076198 older revisions] didn't acknowledge the color styling of the former table format, so that part wasn't erased to begin with. It's just the design, and colors work with the wikitable class as well ([https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Frosted_Glacier&diff=prev&oldid=4283436 see here, for example]). [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:50, July 1, 2024 (EDT)


'''Proposer''': {{User|Annalisa10}}<br>
I think I'd like a ''little'' standardization, just so we don't end up with complete chaos. Maybe standardize alternating-color cells of the same color as the header? And as for the colors themselves — outside of when they're used to separate levels, which is by necessity a case-by-case basis — maybe we could do something similar to or based on the [[MarioWiki:Navigation_templates#Chart|standardized navbox color schemes]]? {{unsigned|Ahemtoday}}
'''Deadline''': February 7, 2024, 23:59 GMT
:{{@|Ahemtoday}} Yeah, perhaps something like the navboxes could work. The problem with the proposal title is that it's misleading in a certain sense since there already has been one custom styling for the wikitables -- "dk" , which is for ''Donkey Kong'' content. I think what it's trying to get at is allowing more standardized wikitable options, and this way there would be less likelihood of conflict if, let's say, someone else were to overhaul an entire page and how it looks. I still think colors should be reserved in specialized circumstances. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:34, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
 
====Keep the formatting of Option 1====
 
====Change all Other Languages sections to Option 2====
 
====Comments====


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 21:39, July 2, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page

Current time:
Wednesday, July 3rd, 02:12 GMT

Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.


===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "July 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====


Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Get rid of the "Subject origin" parameter on the species infobox, DrippingYellow (ended June 25, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
^ NOTE: Currently the subject of an active proposal.
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)
^ Note: Images in "Image-only" portions still need to be checked for Mario elements, and those without them need to be removed.

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Split Wario Land: Shake It! bosses into boss levels

This proposal is similar to the one that passed. As you see, we have Motley Bossblob and Hisstocrat boss levels from Super Mario 3D World, the boss levels from the Donkey Kong Country series, even boss levels Yoshi's Crafted World where each boss guards a Dream Gem. Right now, you might be wondering how we can create separate articles for the Wario Land: Shake It! boss levels.

According to the "<boss> → <boss level>" diagram, the following pages will be affected by the split:

Once this proposal passes, then we will be able to create separate articles for the Wario Land: Shake It! boss levels.

Proposer: GuntherBayBeee (talk) (banned)
Deadline: June 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to July 2, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

  1. Hewer (talk) I guess this makes sense for consistency with coverage of other games, so per proposal.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) I don't think this should even have to go through a proposal. All the other boss levels have their own pages.
  3. Scrooge200 (talk) Per proposal; it makes navigation easier and lines up with how we already handle it for other games. (And for the record, short articles are fine: see Bowser's Sourpuss Bread, which succinctly explains its role rather than being padded out for length concerns.)
  4. Arend (talk) I suppose that makes sense. Per all.
  5. Jazama (talk) Per all

#GuntherBayBeee (talk) Per proposal

Oppose

  1. DrBaskerville (talk) While there is precedence, I just don't see this as necessary given the information is currently detailed on the existing pages without overcrowding them.

Comments

Wouldn't this be creating a bunch of stub articles? Is there sufficient information for all of these characters outside of their battles to warrant separate pages from their battles? For some bosses, I think this makes sense and I also think its good for the wiki to be consistent, but are we solving one "problem" and then creating twelve more by making twelve stub articles? Sprite of Toadsworth Dr. Baskerville Paper Mario Book- MLPJ.png 22:16, June 19, 2024 (EDT)

Looking at "Short Pages, when it isn't being filled with small disambiguation articles, articles with imminent deletions, or Mario Kart Arcade GP items, even the shortest Wario articles don't really come close to the articles featured here. The shortest Wario-related article we could find isn't even as short as the recently-split Speed Mario Bros.. While we aren't personally voting (we'd like to see an example draft of what the split articles look like before voting conclusively), we don't feel like article length is a particularly strong reason to be afraid when Pesky Billboard is an article so small that you could fit its textual content in a floppy disk's boot sector. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 23:46, June 19, 2024 (EDT)
Also, "stub" doesn't mean "short page", it means "page with too little information". If there's not a lot to talk about, then it's perfectly fine for a page to be short and still be complete, so brevity doesn't automatically make it a stub. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 04:11, June 20, 2024 (EDT)

Standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles

I have been attempting to standardize the game articles for the Super Mario series on and off for the past few years. I think presenting information in a shared, unified way is beneficial for readers and passively communicates that these games are part of a shared series, something I think is helpful for a franchise covering so many genres and series. Game articles in the Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country series are similarly organized to one another. It is easy to jump from one article to another, information is where I'd expect it to be, and they look nice. Good stuff.

At present, some Super Mario game articles adopt different organizational structures than others even though they cover the same types of subjects. (As examples, compare Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins to New Super Mario Bros. U and Super Mario Bros. Wonder.) This proposal aims to standardize how they are all sectioned. I think it would be beneficial for their contents.

The sectioning I employ, in the order as laid out, is:

Characters: living/sapient/friendly/neutral subjects that do not cause harm

  • Playable characters: characters controlled
  • Non-playable characters: characters that aren’t controlled

Enemies and obstacles: subjects that damage or inhibit the player character

  • Enemies: living, often multi-membered creatures that occupy the general environment
  • Obstacles: abiotic and environmental subjects that cause damage or inhibit movement
  • Bosses: subjects that often take multiple hits to defeat and are chiefly major barriers to progression

Items and objects: beneficial and neutral environmental subjects, mostly abiotic

  • Items: subjects that are absorbable/collectible, holdable, or health-restoring
  • Power-ups: items that transform the player character’s appearance and grant unique abilities
  • Objects: interactable subjects in the environment that are not items

This sectioning arrangement has been integrated on the Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, Super Mario Land, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Super Mario 3D Land, Super Mario 3D World, and Super Mario Odyssey articles.

Because of the tactile nature of platformers, I like organizing subjects based on their mechanical relationship to the player character, so I keep bosses organized with enemies and obstacles because they all hurt the player. It is also thematically appropriate, because at least some bosses are usually rulers of an enemy species in the same section. I do not like using terms that have strong connotations outside of gaming like "cast" or "antagonist". (I particularly do not like using "antagonist" here because these platformers are not chiefly driven by narrative, so the fact that some bosses also serve antagonistic narrative roles is of lesser importance to their tactile roles as bosses.) "Characters" is more neutral, I think. I also do not separate "returning enemies" from "new ones". I'd rather delineate that information in one shared table, like so. It keeps related enemy species next to each other regardless of whether they're new.

I don't envision this sectioning being applied rigidly, and this is apparent in some of the articles I linked to above. There aren't really enough items in Super Mario Land for them to be severed from power-ups, so I lumped them together in one table there. Both Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy 2 include a "rideable characters" section, and there is a "clothing" section between "Items" and "objects" in Super Mario Odyssey. Rather, I would like this sectioning to be a jumping off point, from which users can manipulate and change things as needed. No two games are exactly the same, after all.

I offer four options.

  1. Support: I like this! Let's do it (if this passes, this sectioning arrangement will be integrated into the remaining Super Mario game articles)
  2. Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently (if this one passes, a second proposal would be raised by the voters that outline their preferred organizational scheme)
  3. Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy (this option is basically the "do nothing" option)
  4. Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: July 3rd, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: I like this! Let's do it

  1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Consistency is never a bad thing.
  3. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
  4. Hewer (talk) I guess if this ought to be a proposal, then sure, per proposal.
  5. EvieMaybe (talk) per proposal
  6. Big Super Mario Fan (talk) Per proposal.
  7. DrBaskerville (talk) Per all. Consistency is good.
  8. RetroNintendo2008 (talk) Per all.
  9. Jazama (talk) Per all
  10. Scrooge200 (talk) Per all, makes it much easier when reading between game pages.

Support: I like some of this, but I would lay out things a little differently

Oppose: The sectioning seems fine, but I would rather we not adopt this as strict policy

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I see page layouts as an organically changing thing, it's best to not create guidelines where they needn't exist. I'm fine with the pages being changed to follow this pattern, but it shouldn't require an additional proposal to change further.
  2. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per Doc von Schmeltwick.

Oppose: I do not like this sectioning at all, and want to see the articles where it's used changed

Comments on standardize sectioning for Super Mario series game articles

These sound like good ideas, but do they need a proposal? Proposal rule 15: "Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages." Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:39, June 26, 2024 (EDT)

I originally did not plan on doing so, but EvieMaybe (talk) recommended I raise one. I supposed it was a good way to assess how other folks think game articles should be organized. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:45, June 26, 2024 (EDT)

Allow colorful tables again

Recently, there's been an update to follow Help:Table that standardizes all the colorful tables into boring, white-and-gray ones. I personally don't like this: not only is it removing a bit of charm from the site, the colored boxes are legitimately helpful at a glance and make it easier to distinguish individual sections in these large chunks of data.

Take Rock-Candy Mines, a world from New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U. Here are two versions of the level lists:


Level Number Level Name Description
Rock-Candy Mines-1 Fuzzy Clifftop This is a clifftop level that features Yoshi, Fruits and Fuzzies.
Rock-Candy Mines-2 Porcupuffer Falls Another cliff level over the water, where Porcupuffers attack. Many Urchins can be found, too.
Rock-Candy Mines-Tower Grinding-Stone Tower The sixth and final tower where Boom Boom is the boss, the final instance he is fought. The main enemies in this tower are Grrrols.
Rock-Candy Mines-3 Waddlewing's Nest This level features Chain Chomps, Waddlewings and tilting stands.
Level Number Level Name Description
Rock-Candy Mines-1 Mount Fuzzy An overworld level with some Fuzzies.
Rock-Candy Mines-2 Porcupuffer Cavern An underground level with low water level and a Porcupuffer.
Rock-Candy Mines-Tower Smashing-Stone Tower A tower full of blocks destroyable only by Grrrols.
Rock-Candy Mines-3 Spike's Seesaws A level with tilting platforms attacked by Spikes.

Level number Level name Description
Rock-Candy Mines-1 Fuzzy Clifftop This is a clifftop level that features Yoshi, Fruits and Fuzzies.
Rock-Candy Mines-2 Porcupuffer Falls Another cliff level over the water, where Porcupuffers attack. Many Urchins can be found, too.
Rock-Candy Mines-Tower Grinding-Stone Tower The sixth and final tower where Boom Boom is the boss, the final instance he is fought. The main enemies in this tower are Grrrols.
Rock-Candy Mines-3 Waddlewing's Nest This level features Chain Chomps, Waddlewings and tilting stands.
Level Number Level Name Description
Rock-Candy Mines-1 Mount Fuzzy An overworld level with some Fuzzies.
Rock-Candy Mines-2 Porcupuffer Cavern An underground level with low water level and a Porcupuffer.
Rock-Candy Mines-Tower Smashing-Stone Tower A tower full of blocks destroyable only by Grrrols.
Rock-Candy Mines-3 Spike's Seesaws A level with tilting platforms attacked by Spikes.

The only concern I can see is that black-on-blue text might be a bit hard to read, but we can change the text color to white, like some articles already do. It's a lot easier to tell with the colored header. If someone is just scrolling through the article to find the levels, the blue and green will catch their eye and they can easily know which game is which. The specific blue and green are distinctly featured on the games' logos and boxes:

The standardization of the templates also really harms articles like Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island: compare the colored navbox revision to the current, and it looks more inconsistent because the levels section is still using a unique format and color. Also compare Pi'illo, an item list: colored revision vs. standardized revision. I don't mind that the colors aren't official wiki standard because they're not arbitrary: they clearly correspond to the area, and lists for this game use the same colors for the same areas. Even so, it's still useful to have different colors because you can scroll through the article and easily know when one list ends and another begins.

Some lists are also heavily dependent on color to distinguish areas with colors specifically used in-game, such as List of ? Blocks in Paper Mario: The Origami King or List of ? Blocks in Paper Mario: Color Splash. Standardizing these would make them much less usable. I don't care if we need to make the colors specifically approved or consistent on a per-game basis, I just want them back. Scrooge200 (talk) PMCS Mustard Cafe Sign.png 20:51, July 1, 2024 (EDT)

Proposer: Scrooge200 (talk)
Deadline: July 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: Allow colors

  1. Scrooge200 (talk) Per proposal.
  2. DrBaskerville (talk) Per proposal. Not only is it more aesthetically pleasing, but it is also easier to read. I do, however, agree we should look into somehow standardizing colors, like what we do with MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive.
  3. Camwoodstock (talk) Per proposal. Just because they weren't standardized heavily isn't a very good reason to default to "plain ol' gray". In addition, while this is admittedly an "us" issue, we do find it annoying how similar the two grays actually are when we're scrolling quickly--the higher contrast provided by the colors helps to quell that issue.
  4. Pseudo (talk) Per proposal, and per all.
  5. Tails777 (talk) I am a very simple man; I enjoy colorful things. But in all seriousness, I feel it helps make sections stand out and could make them easier to identify when reading. Per proposal.
  6. Meester Tweester (talk) Per proposal.
  7. Nintendo101 (talk) Fun and look nice. It's also nice to give users some breathing room with what they want to try integrating into the articles they work on.
  8. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
  9. RetroNintendo2008 (talk) Per all.

Oppose: Prioritize gray

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Colors are based on arbitrary choice and not by official merit. I think there can be a system where there are exceptions to allow for certain colored tables on a case by case basis, but allowing it in absolutely every single case is overdoing it.

Comments

@Super Mario RPG: Chestnut Valley, List_of_hidden_Toads_in_Paper_Mario:_The_Origami_King#Blue_streamer, Not-Bottomless_Hole#Blue_Streamer, List_of_Collectible_Treasures_in_Paper_Mario:_The_Origami_King#Blue_streamer, List_of_?_Blocks_in_Paper_Mario:_The_Origami_King#Blue_streamer all use the exact same colors. And it's because this is a blue streamer area in game, so it makes logical sense; I will usually color pick directly from sprites to get the right color codes. I don't really see where the "arbitrary" part is coming from. Scrooge200 (talk) PMCS Mustard Cafe Sign.png 21:14, July 1, 2024 (EDT)

To be fair, even the older revisions didn't acknowledge the color styling of the former table format, so that part wasn't erased to begin with. It's just the design, and colors work with the wikitable class as well (see here, for example). Super Mario RPG (talk) 21:50, July 1, 2024 (EDT)

I think I'd like a little standardization, just so we don't end up with complete chaos. Maybe standardize alternating-color cells of the same color as the header? And as for the colors themselves — outside of when they're used to separate levels, which is by necessity a case-by-case basis — maybe we could do something similar to or based on the standardized navbox color schemes?
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ahemtoday (talk).

@Ahemtoday Yeah, perhaps something like the navboxes could work. The problem with the proposal title is that it's misleading in a certain sense since there already has been one custom styling for the wikitables -- "dk" , which is for Donkey Kong content. I think what it's trying to get at is allowing more standardized wikitable options, and this way there would be less likelihood of conflict if, let's say, someone else were to overhaul an entire page and how it looks. I still think colors should be reserved in specialized circumstances. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:34, July 2, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.