Talk:Unwinnable state

Bad title?

I'm not sure if this is an accurate title. By "unwinnable", the first thing that comes to my mind is the points at which the player encounters a level or boss fight that is literally "unbeatable"; as in, they are quickly defeated before they can actually beat the boss. (Mario and Luigi fighting the Shroobs from Hollijolli Village from Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.) Perhaps we can move this page to "Unattainable progress" and redelegate the information about softlocking to the glitch lists. Any suggestions? ^(T|C) 15:51, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Just "softlock" could work, but I'm not sure about the 100% section. 15:55, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

As I've said, I don't think softlocks need to be covered on their own page when they can do just fine on the glitch list pages. ^(T|C) 16:07, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Thing is, aside from the Minus World, the unwinnible situations listed so far are really more of oversights than glitches. 16:10, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

I also support moving this page to "softlock". Something doesn't quite roll off the tongue right...probably because the term "unwinnable" has heavy colloquial connotations as compared to softlock, which sounds more encyclopedic and...well less colloquial. Ray Trace^(T|C) 16:13, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Eh, "softlock" sounds rather jargonistic IMO Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:16, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

"Unwinnable" absolutely is the standard term for situations in video games where you can play but can't progress: it has a long history, is the name of the TV Tropes page describing the event and a google search for "unwinnable video games" bring up far more relevant and unique results, nearly all of which are about what is described here and not in fact about scripted battles in RPGs you can't win, which demonstrates to me the concern about potential confusion is unfounded. "Softlock" is also an accepted term and could work, but it's not self-descriptive and a a google search brings less unique results before trailing off about business software solutions and other things unrelated to video games, showing it's a more niche and less commonly used term (and though entirely subjective, I would agree with Doc von Schmeltwick's assertion above it is a very jargony word).

If the fact the 2nd paragraph of the page clears up any potential confusion isn't enough, I could suppose moving the title to "Unwinnable state" could be a compromise as it makes it obvious it's about a prolonged situation and not a mandatory speed bump in the progression of a game. Either way, it's not being moved to "Unattainable progress" because that's a terrible title lol --Glowsquid (talk) 20:27, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

"Unwinnable state" works for me as well. ^(T|C) 21:12, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Re: Softlock patches

Would the removal of unwinnable scenarios in later ports of a game be noteworthy enough to add here? -- Lord G. matters. 00:40, July 20, 2019 (EDT)

Yes. --Glowsquid (talk) 17:39, August 28, 2019 (EDT)

Sticker Star battles

In Paper Mario: Sticker Star, running out of stickers in a battle leaves you with the option to flee from a battle. However, some battles, particularily those against bosses, are pretty much impossible to run away from. This leaves you with the option of having the enemy kill you slowly until a Game Over, or resetting the game. I think maybe we should make note of this situation in this article, since it's a practically unwinnable situation that you can only escape from with "brute force". -- KOOPA CON CARNE 09:17, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

Doesn't the game give you jump and hammer stickers if your album is empty?

Shokora (talk · edits) 09:31, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

It does give you more stickers, but the conditions seem arbitrary. In some battles, I happened to get stickers even though I had plenty more useful ones to dispose of, but the game went whoopsie daisy in the final Bowser battle when I blanked all of my sticker book pages and had to let him kill me as a result. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:03, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

Interesting. Though it could be compared to running out of PP in Pokemon games, and having enough stickers is a deliberate game strategy.

Shokora (talk · edits) 10:17, August 9, 2020 (EDT)

Formless

In Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, if you end up fighting a Formless when you have no flowers (or not enough to do any specials) and no way to restore flowers, then you cannot win. The reason is because it’s technically an optional boss you cannot run away and also, you need to use a special attack to turn formless into its next form, specials are the only way to make it go to the next form where it can take damage from normal attacks unlike the previous form. The only way to leave is to very slowly die since Formless’s magic attack is 50, or to reset. I feel like this should be included as well and it has happened to me, forcing me to reset. Yoshi360 10:42, August 6, 2023 (EDT)

Paper Mario 64

Would this be possible to do ingame (by using hp and fp plus badges to make the game think you are at max stats) or would the game know you equipped them and the guy cheated or used glitches? Remembered Old Buddy 14:36, February 28, 2024 (EST)