Talk:Preying Mantas

Is Mantas singular or plural? Both are used in the article, but if it's the latter, this page should be Preying Manta. Phoenix Rider 18:44, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

Definitely plural, I'll change the article (you can move it and delete this page) - Marioguy1 (talk)

Additionally, shouldn't it be spelled "Praying Manta" instead of "Preying Manta"(as it is a pun on Praying mantis)? Someone should check the instruction booklet to see how it is spelled. Yoshario

I don't have the game (or the booklet) but on google, one of the sites says it's preying, should we trust it> - Marioguy1 (talk)

What site is it? Not all sources are reliable. Yoshario

[1] does that help? - Marioguy1 (talk)

That seems like it could be an error on the author's part. Phoenix Rider 20:00, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

Based on my findings at Wikipedia Japan, the jellyfish enemy that appears in SMG and SMG2 is not a Preying Mantas but a different enemy called ユラリ Yurari. Should this be made into it's own page? Vent 14:45, 28 May 2012 (EDT)

I also think Jammyfish should have a separate page. They are clearly not the same enemy. BubbleRevolution (talk) 16:13, 30 July 2015 (EDT)

French name source

Where have you found the french name? I putted a citation needed, since the source is unknown. The one who putted it isn't active since a few years (i checked the history), and there's no source for it. Maybe it's on a specific french guide? -- FanOfYoshi 12:24, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

Merge with Jellyfish

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Thursday, November 21, 2024, 20:06 GMT

It's just a normal jellyfish with a wacky, but thoroughly obsolete, nickname. Most licensed guidebooks, each for three different releases with decades spacing them out, straight up call them kurage (Japanese for "jellyfish", the literal animal). It's the Player's Guide for SMW2 that's the odd one out, and let's not forget that it's the same book that calls Cheep Cheeps "Flopsy Fish"/"Piscatory Pete", Ukikis "Grinders", and separates one particular Nep-Enut from its species just because it's found underground. Before someone inevitably mentions it, I'm not even making a case for how the Japanese books are somehow more authoritative than the English one just because the Yoshi's Island games themselves were developed in Japan--given the existence of no direct source, such as a manual or the games, to attest the name of this enemy, it's simply a case of 3 different, largely more current sources against 1 source from 1995, all equally official,^* irrespective of their language.

And I mean, yeah, real jellyfish don't have eyes, but fictional attributes don't necessarily prevent a subject from being treated as equivalent to its real life inspiration on this wiki. This fellow from Mario & Wario also has eyes and is currently covered on the Jellyfish article; and I'm no marine biologist, but I don't think actual jellyfish discharge electricity like what that article appears to suggest.

Given a merge, the section that would cover the Yoshi's Island jellyfish would, of course, still acknowledge the Player's Guide name, but treat it as no more than a curiosity (in the same way the SMW2 section for Cheep Cheep acknowledges the names coming from that book).

^* - MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming puts Player's Guides above most other third-party guidebooks, including all non-English guidebooks, on the sourcing priority list, but I'm pretty sure the policy only concerns names, which are a different deal from a subject's identity. Like, Cheep Cheeps are called "Piscatory Petes" in a Player's Guide, but they're still the same as Cheep Cheeps and aren't split from their parent article; naming alone shouldn't dictate how articles are organized.

Proposer: Koopa con Carne (talk)
Deadline: September 28, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Koopa con Carne (talk) Per proposal.
2. Blinker (talk) Per proposal (Although, I would say that "the Japanese books are somehow more authoritative than the English", not "just because the Yoshi's Island games themselves were developed in Japan", but also because a lot of names (such as "Gerogero", "Pudding", "Kounbaba" and "Biyooon Obake") used in the books are corroborated by development info)
3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - I was too cowardly to do this. Per (especially since one of the two appearances has no English guide to name it anyway).

Oppose

1. DryBonesBandit (talk) For the reasons Nintendo101 came up with on the Discord server, being "It has a recurring design, function, and is recognized as a proper enemy in the paratext".
2. Ray Trace (talk) I can't say this case is the same as Piscatory Pete and Flopsy Fish. For one, this enemy is the only one here that has reappeared in Yoshi's New Island with an unchanged design (Piscatory Petes do not exist in New Island). I also think it's very distinct compared to generic cases of Jellyfish and it plays distinctly too (you can jump on them and they move up and down.) In addition, Dr. Freezegood is also simply called "Snowman" in Japanese, yet I would also oppose the merge because it was given a unique name to distinguish itself from other snowmen (also with an unchanged design from the first game rather than using something more generic or Mr. Blizzard or something). I'd say in this case, it's better off split.
3. Waluigi Time (talk) Per all.
4. Nintendo101 (talk) I understand the thought process here, but I personally do not think names are the only thing that should be considered when contemplating lumps or splits. I understand this would be less apparent if it was already lumped with generic jellyfish, but this specific subject has a recurring design, function, and is recognized as an “enemy” in the paratext for the games it appears in (namely page 42 in the Shogakukan guidebook, page 128 in the Nintendo Power guidebook, and page 18 in the Nintendo of Europe guidebook). It does not seem to me to be a generic jellyfish, and I do not think it was intended to be understood as one in the same way Dr. Freezegood is likely not supposed to be perceived as a generic snowman despite its Japanese name. I think it would be a more accurate for Preying Mantas to retain their article, separate from generic jellyfish.
5. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.

Comments

Should also be mentioned that its name is a bit unclear: neither preying mantises nor mantas are a type of jellyfish. Speaking of Jellyfish, isn't it odd that the Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze jellyfish is integrated into the Jellyfish article despite having a completely different name in Japanese (Pikkarin as opposed to kurage (oddly enough also the only Japanese name listed there)), while the Yoshi's Story jellyfish has its own article because its got a different Japanese name (Kuragebon, which is more similar to kurage than Pikkarin is)? Shouldn't the DKCTF variant be split as well? rend (talk) (edits) 09:56, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

The section for the DKCTF jellyfish was added to the article long before the Pikkarin name was discovered. Regardless, there's an assumption that the licensed paratext written in the original language of its corresponding game decides how a subject is organized--with the DKCTF jellyfish, the Prima guide takes priority because the language of the game's developer is English, while for the Yoshi's Story jellyfish, priority is shifted to the Japanese guidebook. I agree, though, that this point of view is flawed and needs further consideration. The language used in a licensed guide isn't an indicator of how "close" the guide is to the vision of a game's creators. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 10:12, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

For what it's worth, from what I've seen Retro Studios file names tend to be incredibly utilitarian in the "meaningless string of numbers and letters" variety, though I might not be looking in the right place. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:23, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

@Opposition, the enemy's recurring function is floating through the water (like a jellyfish) and stunning the player character, not even hurting them like the Tropical Freeze jellyfish (considered generic jellyfish by the wiki). Is a jelly. Being an obstacle doesn't make it any less generic, in fact I think that aligns with the reality that a few real life jellies have harmful effects on humans. The enemy's design can just be chalked up to being the Yoshi's Island series' interpretation of the animal, and there's never been an active effort to make it a separate "brand" of jellyfish, like Sidestepper can be considered the Mario series' non-generic generic crab. Had the name "Preying Mantas" not existed, wouldn't this situation be even more clear-cut? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:48, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

We merging Crabber then? This is me, D-B-B! 17:50, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

No. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:52, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

Didn't realize it has a different name in Japanese. Still, I am keeping my oppose vote. This is me, D-B-B! 17:53, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

Preying Mantas don't electrocute the character. AFAIK they act the same as any other fish in SNES Yoshi's Island in terms of damage and they are actually stompable in Yoshi's New Island. That actually makes them considerably different than the generic jellyfish you are proposing to merge to. Ray Trace^(T|C) 18:13, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

Should we split Crab, then? The ones in MK64 are obstacles and are "considerably different" from the collectible ones in DKC for GBA. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 18:34, September 14, 2024 (EDT)

If the crab in DKC for GBA are called "Pinching Thing That Kills Giant Ape" in NOA localization, were recurring, kept that design, then yes. Ray Trace^(T|C) 18:35, September 14, 2024 (EDT)