View source for User talk:Super Mario RPG/Archive 1

== Multiple accounts ==

{{Threeaccounts-reminder|CoolNintendo|Tetris}}
This is actually your fourth including {{User|Maciej the gaming pro}}, though this was an unused one from four years ago. Please do not create multiple accounts, otherwise you will be temporarily blocked from editing entirely. If this is due to a forgotten password, make sure to add an email to your [[Special:Preferences|preferences]] so you're able to do a password reset, or contact an admin first before creating another account. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 21:38, October 10, 2023 (EDT)
:okay. first two i forgot password to. third one i decided i didn't like the username (Tetris) [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 21:41, October 10, 2023 (EDT)
::You're allowed to [[MarioWiki:Changing username|request a rename]] three months after account creation. A new account shouldn't be made just to change your name; creating a username isn't something done with little thought, and since it's the name you settled with, it's expected that you stick with it at least for a while. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 22:03, October 10, 2023 (EDT)

== Color ==

Our templates generally have some amount of color for ease and thematic purposes, i.e. red templates on Mario games, green on Yoshi, brown on DK, purple on Wario, et cetera, often with colored text to represent multiple characters. If you're worried about your eyes being strained, I'd recommend you do what I do and find ways to turn the screen brightness down lower than it goes by default, which is a Godsend for late working in the dark - I use Intel Graphics Command Center, but you'll need to figure out what you'd need depending on your device. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:18, October 17, 2023 (EDT)
:The problem I have with colors and why I like the plain and simple look is because the use of colors is arbitrary, like the bright red on Famicom GP page. The coding for the navigation templates are not on the articles, but the coloring for the tables are. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 20:29, October 17, 2023 (EDT)

==Other appearances==
Hi, just to let you know, the "other appearances" sections are not for cameos in general. They're for cameos outside of the games this wiki covers. See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/57%23Define_the_scope_of_.22Other_appearances.22_sections|relevant proposal]].

Also I see you're grouping history sections by series instead of game. Nothing strongly against it for now but I'm curious, what's better about that format? Just want to know. {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 18:52, October 30, 2023 (EDT)
:Thanks for the heads up about Other appearances. Also, it's arbitrary, but I feel it's necessary if like other sections are too short (e.g. it's redundant if one section after another says "acts the same as in [game]" or "acts the same as in game"). I basically only prefer sections if they are large enough to warrant it, not like if they have 2-3 sentences that can be tied to like a similar release (e.g. if there's only three sentences describing ''Super Mario Galaxy 2''{{'}}s difference from ''Super Mario Galaxy'', I think it's better off to put all the information together. Remakes tend to share an individual section as well, which I think you've seen around a wiki (like 64 / 64 DS), and it can reduce the redundancy of using sentences when having to reintroduce everything in like one or two sentences. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 18:58, October 30, 2023 (EDT)
::Ah, so reducing redundancy was the reason? Makes sense, really, I have seen those things before. Thanks for clarifying for me! {{User:Somethingone/sig}} 19:02, October 30, 2023 (EDT)
:::You're welcome. Unfortunately there's not really any black or white solution to the idea of reducing redundancy in wiki text, as 1-2 sentences could be redundant, or 6-7 sentences. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 19:14, October 30, 2023 (EDT)

== Trigger-happy info removal ==

Your recent mass excision of information from pages like [[Nintendo]], [[iQue]], and [[Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection]] on grounds that "it's not related to Mario enough" is pretty misguided. It leaves out historical and technical context that readers may benefit from knowing if they are willing to engage with Mario media specifically. You have reasoned that this much detail is comparable to listing entire in-depth biographies for the people involved in the Mario series, but I'd argue there's a crucial difference: these people are living, breathing beings whose existence isn't tied to a fictional character, meaning there is really only so much you can write about them on this site before the information starts becoming superfluous. With the aforementioned subjects, because they're inherently tied to Nintendo's game development history, they practically exist in symbiosis with Mario's franchise. Even then, I agree that some of the information may ramble in parts, but if you feel like you can reform some of the content to a degree you find reasonable, it's best to first initiate a discussion on the matter--the amount of content concerned here is large enough that it's nigh on guaranteed any attempts at handling it on your own will result in disagreements. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:41, November 27, 2023 (EST)
:Well, I guess what I can say is that this is how we learn along the way. I've run into a few disagreements with my edits before, and I did not start a conflict with them. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 10:03, November 27, 2023 (EST)
{{reminder}}
This is with regard to your [[Special:Diff/4083568|removing]] of the Production section in the [[Virtual Boy]] article. To reiterate my message above: the history of an official Nintendo system that plays official Mario games can and should very much be within the interest of the wiki's readers. Phasing whole history sections out because they're not directly and obligately related to Mario makes for low-priority and unprofessional coverage. I am not saying you have to agree, ''but the changes you're making are drastic enough that they may require discussion beforehand.'' {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:17, December 15, 2023 (EST)

== Re: Headings ==
Now I checked the History section of Manual of Style, and found the guideline you told me, I will take your edits to know that I cannot add a History heading to a subject that made one appearance.

Also, I saw some articles with the description heading. Observing the edits you made with my previous edits, I took it as articles with little content to not need that 'Description' heading, if I am correct. Thank you for telling me. {{User:Derekblue1/sig}} 01:00, November 29, 2023 (EST)

== History section splits ==

Hey, can you pause on splitting history sections? It's evident that guidelines per [[MarioWiki:Article size]] are not sufficient enough for a judgement call for several page splits you've attempted. We're trying to figure out how to rework these article size guidelines (the 100k byte limit in the policy is clearly not a good guideline, which is made much clearer from these attempts) so we don't have a suboptimal layout of pages in the process. While several of these are technically 100k or reaching it, the resulting original pages will be too small to justify an article, where their navigational templates exceed the size of the page. You've also split off a featured article [[Chain Chomp]], which is too much of a drastic change affecting a front page display that we're not comfortable enough moving forward with without prior discussion. At the time of this post, there are several pages where it's not exceeding the disputed 100k limit, such as [[Thwomp]], [[Coin]], [[Bob-omb]], [[Shy Guy]]. Even those a little over 100k such as [[Koopa Troopa]] and [[Piranha Plant]] are probably not advisable for a split yet. Even for a page like [[Goomba]], try to trim content where possible too. For instance, I think there's too many images in that article, so if I wanted to cut down images, I'd consider very carefully which image illustrates this character's history (such as an appearance showing a redesign of Goomba or a stylistic change in Goomba) and which ones are less important (Goomba simply reappearing in a direct sequel). {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:35, December 2, 2023 (EST)
:I actually was not planning on doing any more, especially when I saw the removal of "History of Chain Chomp." However, I do agree that it gets redundant when splitting an article that's like 45k in size. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 14:42, December 2, 2023 (EST)

== Completed MKT icons ==

Hello, Super Game Gear. Thank you for taking notice on the template I was working on, I completed typing all the names of the drivers, karts and gliders on [[User:Derekblue1/sandbox|my sandbox]]. I was thinking of '''Template:mkt-icon''', but do you have a better suggestion for a template name? {{User:Derekblue1/sig}} 07:34, December 9, 2023 (EST)
:'''Template:mkt icon''' (without the dash) [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 09:17, December 9, 2023 (EST)
:: Got it, here is the new template: [[Template:MKT icon]]. {{User:Derekblue1/sig}} 09:39, December 9, 2023 (EST)

== DK level pages ==

[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Black_Ice_Blitz&curid=54856&diff=4084371&oldid=4084368 Approved by who?] Was there a discussion on this I missed? {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:18, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:[[User_talk:Mario#Level_pages|Yes.]] [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]])
::I'm with 7 here, I think there should be a more community-wide discussion on this rather than one normal editor and one sysop. Especially on the world pages, the galleries don't function as well as the tables to on my monitor. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:25, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::Well I'm nearly done with DKLIII and already completed restyling the first three DKC level pages and the first two DKL level pages. I've been doing this for several days. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 14:28, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::::I would hardly call a user talk page discussion between three users, one of whom not even being 100% on board with the idea, to be sufficient consensus to overhaul all of these pages. I, for one ''vastly'' prefer the table for the Bonus Levels over the simple bulleted list with the screenshots clumped to the right of it. I do think a gallery is better than a table for the enemy lists, though. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:31, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::::I think that if you had objections, you should have voiced them sooner, because I'm nearly done with the overhaul. Consensus is a relative term, anyways. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 14:35, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::::::I can't voice objections about something I don't know about. All of this has been happening behind my back. If there were a more high-profile discussion than three users on a user talk page, I would get it. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:39, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::::::Can you not take a hint? If someone is objecting to what you're doing, you should ''stop'' until the issue is settled. The linked discussion was not sufficient to me, and "I'm almost done already" is not a good reason to just keep going. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:50, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::::::::I'm sorry about the confusion here. I think removing the tables should've happened for these lists. I find it a little odd that DKC articles have this layout while most other level pages use lists for that information, see [[Koopa Troopa Cave]]. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:39, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::::::::Yeah. It would require too much effort to undo all of it, and I just finished doing the DKL3 levels. I wanted to try something like a tabber for the [[Orang-utan Gang]] page, since it has five Bonus Levels (I did a quick edit; saw it wasn't working, and I know that tabber is currently only approved for infobox images). This would help retain the bullet list while alternating between the Bonus Level locations at the same time, so hopefully we can do that at some point. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 15:44, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::::::::::Orangu-tan Gang is a good example of why I ''don't like'' using the bulleted lists over tables for the Bonus Levels. The tables provide a nice visual aid for the reader, showing them an image of the location of a collectible or the Bonus Level in addition to a description of how to get there or whatnot. I honestly have no idea why those ''Mario'' levels ''don't'' do this already. It's helpful, so railing against them is honestly baffling to me. Also, you can avoid the "too much effort" issue by having a more high-profile, community-wide discussion (or a proposal) before making such large, widespread changes like this. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:02, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::::::::::How the galleries are done in Orangu-tan Gang is suboptimal, that's why it it's hard to tell immediately what the bonus levels are. I think putting the secret levels in an accompanying gallery like green stars, with images labeling the levels, would work better. Table also works too, though. As for tabber, I don't really like the use of it on the wiki and I would eventually make a proposal to remove these all together, but the proposal was passed iirc too recently. {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:09, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::::::::::::I'm going to give something on Orang-utan Gang's Bonus Levels section a try. I feel there's not enough justification for tables in the level article since it's mostly just parsed text. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 16:17, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::::::::::::The tables looking better and being better for organization is justification enough. Having the images crammed in a gallery below the bulleted list or off to the right just looks needlessly worse to me than simply having the table with the images neatly being paired with the descriptions. That goes for the KONG letters too - how is having the screenshot of the K off to the right, the O and the N in the gallery at the bottom of the page, and the G tucked away in the Bonus Level gallery better than just having a table with all of the screenshots neatly in place? I simply don't understand how that's an improvement. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:34, December 16, 2023 (EST)
Agreed with 7feetunder. If info about an item/bonus room/etc. has a screenshot as a visual aid, a table is the best way to pair them together.<br>Game Gear, respectfully, your recent edits have largely felt like changing things just for the sake of change. Heed the advice given so far and discuss all of these things beforehand with the community at large. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:42, December 16, 2023 (EST)

:I prefer the bullet list (more adjustable reading experience on devices with smaller screen size), and my amendment to the issue of the screenshots would be in the form of tabber, then it's fewer images occupying the size of the screen. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 16:46, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::And they're ''less'' adjustable for larger screens. And tabber stinks, to put it bluntly. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:54, December 16, 2023 (EST)
::To the point about KONG Letters, they're optional items in a large majority of DK platforming games, not key items. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 16:56, December 16, 2023 (EST)
:::So what? There's a consistent number and pattern to them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:57, December 16, 2023 (EST)

This discussion has made it clear that you do not have the approval to go on this anti-table crusade that you thought you did. Yet you're still doing it. When multiple users are opposing the wiki-wide changes you're making, you should ''stop'' until you get a consensus in your favor, be it through a more substantial discussion or a proposal, not just keep doing it. For the record, I don't think the tables for those ''King of Swing'' collectibles were overly necessary, since they only featured images of the collectibles themselves rather than the locations, but the point still stands. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:49, December 23, 2023 (EST)

Admin here and I have to echo what everyone else has been saying here and say you're changing too many things that honestly don't need to be changed for the most part, not just removing tables, but replacing them with hidden lists (this in particular I really do not see the benefit of, especially for just small sections; sections are already hidden in the default mobile view, and it's more convenient and nicer having the information presented immediately), killing substantial history sections that have separate subsections, and adding tabbers to infoboxes that [[Template:Tabber#Use cases|haven't been approved yet]]. I understand you're trying to make articles more accessible, but you need to understand that that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with how you're going about it. (And you've already had multiple people objecting to your edits, which should be an indication to stop and discuss, not simply proceed without a word.) This is a wiki; if these are going to affect a large number of pages, you need to at least get the opinions of other users through discussion or a proposal, let others know what you're doing and why these changes would be helpful. I'm letting you off with one last informal reminder but any more drastic, site-wide layout changes like these without approval may result in a warning, since you were already formally reminded earlier about this. Slow down. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 07:03, January 4, 2024 (EST)

{{warning}}
Aight, you got a good number of users, including one bureaucrat, expressing uncertainty or even disapproval regarding some of your recent edits, and you're [[Special:Diff/4110630|still]] [[Special:Diff/411062|doing it]]. I don't know just what is so difficult for you to grasp that ''these changes are drastic and controversial enough a discussion with other users is definitely required''. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:09, January 9, 2024 (EST)
:Oh, it was because I saw the DKC world pages were edited, so I wanted to make them consistent. And I summarized the descriptions. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 09:12, January 9, 2024 (EST)

== Minor Edits ==

Small but numerous edits (like your edits on NSMB level pages) should be marked as minor to avoid flooding recent changes. {{User:Mushroom Head/sig}} 00:33, December 17, 2023 (EST)
:You say, before doing exactly that without marking them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:06, December 17, 2023 (EST)
::i did mark them {{User:Mushroom Head/sig}} 01:41, December 17, 2023 (EST)
:::Huh, weird, the m didn't show up for me. Sorry. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:45, December 17, 2023 (EST)

== Smash Bros. ==

Gonna let you know that that is a veritable ''powder keg'' discussion, so bluntly saying you want non-''Mario'' content from ''Smash Bros.'' purged outright is not going to help your case. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:50, January 5, 2024 (EST)
:Not sure I fully understand. A lot of the Smash content is in list pages, since this is a wiki on ''Super Mario''. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 12:53, January 5, 2024 (EST)
::Look at the proposal log and look for the ones that were ''Smash''-related. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:27, January 5, 2024 (EST)

== Le tabber inappropriée ==

Hello, looking over your contribution history, I've noticed an extremely large amount of uses of the contentious tabber template on pages it was not approved for, such as item and enemy and stage pages. I request that you revert those undiscussed uses, as otherwise, that's a lot more unnecessary work for the rest of us. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:34, January 17, 2024 (EST)

== Profiles ==

Why are you limiting the preview profiles sections to at most three profiles? There isn't a rule saying you could do that, although I think it allows for less clutter. {{User:PnnyCrygr/sig}} 08:31, January 22, 2024 (EST)
:There isn't a rule, but I like consistency and figured it would not be a big deal to limit it to three. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 08:37, January 22, 2024 (EST)

==Last Warning==
{{warning|2=Making sweeping changes without prior discussions}}
You've been warned before about making sweeping changes without much prior discussion before, and you've continued to do so. We appreciate the initiative, and some of your ideas are very good (I really like the missions template) but you do need to be a bit more careful- there's no harm in making a proposal or starting a talk page too many. And I get you like consistency, but there's no need to overly change titles to Profiles and Statistics- those are not profiles or statistics, and it's fine for different pages to use different titles if that's more appropriate. Just try to ask about big things before you do them moreoften, please. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 16:25, February 1, 2024 (EST)
:If it helps, I fixed the headings for all of the olympic game events. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:30, February 1, 2024 (EST)
::It does, thank you. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 16:46, February 1, 2024 (EST)
:::Okay, and aside from profiles and statistics what else am i being warned for? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:48, February 1, 2024 (EST)
I don't think anything Super Mario RPG has done in the past few weeks warrants a last warning. Some of the templates they have created could be better optimized and probably even merged together to make a more universal and elegant template, but the knowledge required to do so comes with experience, the lack of which should not be met with punitive action. Furthermore, the reason they are being warned for here is quite vague--the warning I originally issued followed a lengthy streak of negative feedback from users asking SMRPG to stop acting upon a certain area of the wiki, whereas in this case, they are being bold in a way that isn't disruptive and could in fact improve the wiki, given a little better guidance. In other words, I doubt anyone would feel inclined to warn Super Mario RPG if he set out in his wiki endeavors in this manner, and your criticism is loosely founded on past mistakes that aren't being repeated here. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:38, February 1, 2024 (EST)
:The trickiest part is knowing the fine line between being bold and what warrants a proposal. For example, tabber had controversy behind unapproved uses, such as from myself, so I made a proposal about extending its usage. It failed, and I helped clean up the unapproved cases, just as I cleaned up the "profiles and statistics" back to "missions" [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:49, February 1, 2024 (EST)
::That, again, comes with experience and feedback (but not the "we're threatening to block you" kind of feedback, unless you're being obstinate in your actions, which you haven't been for a while). Since you can't quite appeal an admin's reminder at the moment, I'd encourage admins to discuss the one issued hereof. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:00, February 1, 2024 (EST)
I also think the warning is excessive, though I agree that many of the new templates should have at least a modicum of discussion beforehand, especially ones that try to unify style - especially in a manner that itself hasn't been approved by anyone else. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:23, February 1, 2024 (EST)
:The rules have changed, now - you may now contest this warning if you feel it was too much. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:41, February 4, 2024 (EST)
::I already did. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:42, February 4, 2024 (EST)

The staff team agrees that Super Mario RPG should not be making too drastic and sweeping changes without prior discussion, which they have been asked to slow down many times, so we believe they still need a kind of warning. However, Super Mario RPG has been constructive and civil in the dispute while trying to undo what they have done, and we also took other user's concerns into consideration. We decided to compromise and lower the warning level from last warning to a warning. See [[MarioWiki:Appeals/Archive#Super_Mario_RPG]]. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:36, February 9, 2024 (EST)

== Nice job on the spirit and trophy templates! ==

… as well as all the other templates used for official profiles. keep them coming {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 07:22, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
:Thank you. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:45, March 27, 2024 (EDT)

== Propsal cleaned up ==

I cleaned up [[MarioWiki:Proposals#Broaden the scope of the &lcub;&lcub;unreferenced&rcub;&rcub; template|my proposal]] by adding the <code><nowiki><pre></nowiki></code> tags. You should take a look at what the template will look like from above. What do you think how my proposal looks? {{User:GuntherBB/sig}} 21:16, March 30, 2024 (EDT)
:I'm indifferent, since I agree with the idea of adding such a template to articles without citations regardless (and may be willing to even broaden out to in-game citations, depending on the context or controversy of a subject). I'd suggest not spamming everyone's talk page with an update, since we do take a look at the proposals page near daily, and it would be more efficient to notify others from there. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:20, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

== "Unreferenced" ==

Our reference policy only encourages references on an as-needed basis; as such, anything where the information can be easily found by playing the game or looking up an online video do not need references. As such, many pages for miscellaneous subjects may not have any references, and that is perfectly fine. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:10, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
:The text within the template makes it sound as if it applies to any page without templates, which would make sense, considering how many pages have references. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:12, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
::The template shouldn't be thrown onto every single page on the wiki that doesn't have references. If everything in the article is easily clarified in-game, we don't need sources for those. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 19:18, April 10, 2024 (EDT)
:::Okay, I'll keep in mind. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 19:18, April 10, 2024 (EDT)

== "[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Captain_Falcon&diff=prev&oldid=4183563 don't think Nintendo Land ever had full coverage]" ==

[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/31#Reverse_decision_to_make_pages_for_the_non-Mario_attraction_in_Nintendo_Land|It did, believe it or not.]] Mario Wiki's focus used to be a bit poor. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:51, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

== Deletion templates for ''Smash'' redirects ==

I noticed you didn't add {{tem|delete}} templates to some of the ''Smash'' redirects you went through, such as the various names of [[List of Assist Trophy characters#Guile|Guile]]. Excluding the fighter redirects (which should all stay), did you just forget to add the templates, or was that on purpose and those redirects should stay? [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 21:45, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
:I only did it to the redirects that had their corresponding category tagged for deletion (e.g. ''Kirby'' and ''Persona''), since I thought that's what the recently passed proposal was about. I do agree that more, like the ''Street Fighter'' redirects, should have also been deleted, but I was unsure since it was agreed that some of the series categories would be retained. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:50, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
::How about asking Camwoodstock if those redirects should be deleted? [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 21:56, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
:::We never said to delete any of the redirects--just remove them from the categories, and then delete the categories that were already marked. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 23:05, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
::::The redirects are all still functional, and later proposals will probably concern them in any case. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:31, April 13, 2024 (EDT)

Pardon me, but who exactly gave you the go-ahead to mark a bunch of ''images'' for deletion? No proposal on that has occurred, of that I am certain. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:07, April 14, 2024 (EDT)
: Our proposal also had nothing to do with deleting redirects, let alone touching the [[Assist Trophy]] or [[Final Smash]] articles at all... {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 12:17, April 14, 2024 (EDT)
::I mean, the option that won in that proposal had "Prune all Smash-related redirects" as a stated goal. Call me an ESL filth but my understanding of "pruning" is "removing (superfluous things)", and Super Mario RPG is trying to have that done. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:25, April 14, 2024 (EDT)
:::"Pruning [the categories] from [the redirects]," as the proposal was solely about categories. Regardless of what it was about, SMRPG here is going majorly out-of-line. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:39, April 14, 2024 (EDT)
::::Yes, Koopa con Carne is right. That was my definition of "pruning" as well. ''Smash Bros.'' coverage is a controversial issue here. It would take a very long time to empty the deletion category, which has about 600 items in it already. However, I suppose a concern is if more urgent things in that category needed to be deleted, like inappropriate content or spam. All the images marked were unused, not even appearing on the ''Super Smash Bros.'' list pages, and I realized there's a few I hadn't even got to marking for deletion. The redirects proposal had some misunderstanding going around, and the redirects are still functional, even with the deletion tags intact. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:58, April 14, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Just because an image goes unused doesn't automatically mean it's eligible for deletion. Most of these Smash screenshots used to be included in pages that focused on individual non-Mario fighters, and got left out when these pages were merged into lists--even though the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Change_the_way_Super_Smash_Bros._fighter_lists_are_organised|proposal]] that decided how these lists are organized specifically stated that all images would be carried over. Take {{file link|Gordo Throw Wii U.jpg}} for instance; it was part of [[Special:Diff/3888961|King Dedede's original page]], where it illustrated one of his special moves, but since it was decided through [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Merge_certain_non-Mario_fighters_from_the_Super_Smash_Bros._series_into_game-specific_lists_and_trim_away_detailed_special_move_information_for_all_non-Mario_fighters|a previous proposal]] to trim away detailed info on special moves pertaining to non-Mario folk, the user who originally did the merging [[Special:Diff/3899524|simply wasn't considerate enough to re-integrate the pic into Dedede's new entry]]. Doc is right that these images shouldn't have been tagged for deletion; there's nothing in those aforementioned proposals that advocated treating them as such. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:15, April 14, 2024 (EDT)

Regardless of your opinions, you need to ''seriously'' cool it with your unprompted anti-''Smash'' frenzy before you receive another official warning. CWS said above that they didn't want redirects deleted in what was ''their'' proposal, and ''no one'' said they wanted images deleted. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:16, April 14, 2024 (EDT)

== Last warning ==

{{last warning}}

Apologies for the delay, and while I don't want to scare you, we've noticed again that you have been undertaking sweeping changes in a fashion other users have taken issue with. In this instance, this is referring to an attempt at enacting a proposal[https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65#Trim_or_remove_various_Smash_franchise-specific_subcategories] by Camwoodstock without really carefully adhering to their project guidelines (you probably should've asked for clarification of the semantics of Camwoodstock's proposal). This is on top of the multiple instances of unsubstantiated {{tem|unreferenced}} templates that were placed on the page. This last warning is a continuation of the previous compromised warning you've received, that you have been making broad and sweeping changes without proper vetting from the community. I strongly suggest you proceed very cautiously and refrain from making these edits again and focus more on straightforward projects that less users take issue with. If you're not sure what to do, try to focus making changes on ''one page only'' (or two pages if it's a merge; the idea is to limit your scope), one big page may do the trick (focus on more repetitive improvements like, say, filling out Mario's appearance list on Mario's page?) rather than try to enact changes that affect multiple pages. That way it's easier to vet mistakes being made. Please be careful, and take care! {{User:Mario/sig}} 18:34, April 18, 2024 (EDT)

==RE:archive==
Oh, I noticed it on the [[MIPS#References|MIPS]] page, too. Is it a wiki bug? That's pretty strange. Maybe contact Porple about it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:03, April 20, 2024 (EDT)

== Deletion tags ==

Please don't add any more deletion tags for articles that had encyclopedia profiles, staff is currently against deleting the revisions so we won't for the time being. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 15:48, May 5, 2024 (EDT)
:Got it. It is unlikely that Dark Horse would look at those anyway. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:49, May 5, 2024 (EDT)
::I was the one who started adding those deletion tags so I guess I'm the one who jumped the gun. Super Mario RPG merely continued it. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:51, May 5, 2024 (EDT)



== Mario and Paper Mario universe == 

I've made a proposal about making seperate articles for the characters in the Mario and in the Paper Mario universe. 

https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals

Maybe you want to support my proposal?! Thank's! 

[[User:Big Super Mario Fan|Big Super Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Big Super Mario Fan|talk]]) 18:28, May 18, 2024 (EDT)

:Stop soliciting for votes. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:33, May 18, 2024 (EDT)

== Formatting author names in MLA-style citations ==

When a book has two authors, apparently the standard way of naming them in citations is "[first listed author's Last Name, First Name], and [second listed author's First Name, Last Name]". Sources: [https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/mla_style/mla_formatting_and_style_guide/mla_works_cited_page_books.html owl.purdue.edu] [https://libguides.uwf.edu/c.php?g=1167515&p=8525507 libguides.uwf.edu] [https://twu.edu/media/documents/write-site/Citing-Multiple-Authors-In-Text,-MLA-Format.pdf twu.edu]. (Of course, it should be noted that this wiki's citation formats already take some liberties from MLA, but the cite template would help modifying them en masse if there's ever a decision to strictly adopt MLA style for them.) {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 19:36, May 18, 2024 (EDT)
:Didn't know that. I'll start using from now on. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:53, May 19, 2024 (EDT)

==Re: Templates==
Hi, thanks for the message, you don't really need to ask me for permission- to be honest, when it comes to technical stuff I'm pretty useless and probablynotthepersonto ask. If you think the templates would be useful, then feel free, I just don't know a lot about that stuff or if at a point it becomes over-Templates. If in any more doubt, I'd try to start a talk page discussion or proposal about it, but if you’re confident then you can go ahead with it. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 18:33, May 19, 2024 (EDT)
:I really don't think that the controls template is necessary. The formatting was already consistent across articles (or at least, it should have been, there's a chance one or two small errors got through as a fair few of those I did make somewhat late at night), and it seems to have created more spacing issues- it looks pretty crammed in on my laptop, it's hard to read on mobile, plus the way the Rule Info resizes mean on small screens it takes up more or less the same amount of vertical space anyway plus having to scroll across to read the whole thing. I think this is the point at which it becomes templating for the sake of templating- the empty space wasn't really a huge issue, and "not liking reading it vertically" doesn't really constitute the need for a template. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 03:45, May 22, 2024 (EDT)

== GameCube Edits ==

I've been away for a while, but the last time I was here in a major way, full support for official Nintendo consoles and accessories. Not sure why you removed [[GameCube]] {{file link|Gamecube Main Menu.png|menu screen}}. I also certainly don't want it as a [[MarioWiki:Personal files|personal file]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:57, May 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Because the wiki, as far as I know, aims to cover Nintendo products from the perspective of the ''Super Mario'' franchise, or what essential information about it intrinsically applies to ''Super Mario''. We have a partner wiki named [[nwiki:|NintendoWiki]] for in-depth information about Nintendo content. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 23:00, May 19, 2024 (EDT)
::I am familiar with NintendoWiki, but I don't know of any policy on {{SITENAME}} that permits what you removed. It's been like this for years. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:04, May 19, 2024 (EDT)

== Still captioning small images? ==

I see that you're [[Special:Diff/4212792|''still'' adding captions to small images (as well as removing some captionless images)]], even though [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Forbid the use of images without captioning them|a prior failed proposal of yours]] has everyone unanimously stating that captions aren't necessary for small images, and that therefor, images without captions shouldn't be forbidden. I see that you are using {{tem|multiframe}} to bypass the main concern of unreadability (which is something you brought up in that very same proposal), but in that very same proposal, PnnyCrgr already stated with: ''"Yeah, padded whitespace makes the page look relatively bigger when actually there is no content. It sucks for an article to have superfluous space created by overly long captions in floated tiny images. When creating an article, an article should look nice."'' In other words, this creates a lot of empty space, and I see in your edit that you aren't doing ''anything'' to diminish the empty space.<br>Point it, this is teetering ''very close'' to proposing something that failed, ''but doing it anyway''. Something that another user, {{User|Big Super Mario Fan}}, had done similarly (that is, merging lists of remakes to lists of mainline games on series pages while his failing proposal about that was still ongoing), ''and was warned for''. I'd advice you not to do that and adhere to the results of your proposal, please.<br>BTW, in regards of removing some captionless images in the revision I showed you, was that ''really'' necessary? That was the only time a sprite of a big Ice Block from ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' was on that page, and it's not even in the Ice Block's gallery yet. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:31, May 21, 2024 (EDT)
:True, I forgot that failed, but it can be hard to identify which image corresponds to which game when they're all scattered like that, so my intent was to try and have the gallery illustrate how they'd look. But the added issue with that is I think the gallery preview, there's rule of how many images can be displayed in it at a time. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:06, May 21, 2024 (EDT)

== History in "Super Mario" franchise/other media ==

Hello there, I just visited the [[Wiggler]] page and noticed your edit with the new split of "History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise" and "History in other media". I was just wondering if this is some new policy being rolled out, as it'd be very inconsistent to have a single page with this formatting that appears nowhere else on the Wiki. I only wonder if the "History" section should really be split into two <nowiki>==</nowiki> headers, these are meant to be the "lowest denominator" headers: History, General Info, and then various other lists/statistics/supplementary info. It just feels odd to me that the biggest sections of the page are "History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise", "History in other media", and then "General information". If we want this distinction between ''Super Mario'' appearances and others, I believe they should still fit under one big "History" umbrella. Also, I just think the wording is not clear for "History in other media", at first I thought it was referring to non-video games, like the movie. Perhaps the "History" header could be split into "Within the ''Super Mario'' franchise" and then "Outside of the ''Super Mario'' franchise"? I also wonder if it's more effective than the old "Other appearances", as those were usually small appearances, but here even Wiggler's ''Super Smash Bros.'' appearances have been split out, which aren't that big of appearances, but at least those games are big and now you'd have to scroll past all the other games to find it, which is out of the chronological order. Well, I'm just talking ideas here and I'm curious if there's another place of discussion for this topic? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 02:14, May 25, 2024 (EDT)
:There is currently a proposal for this. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 05:14, May 25, 2024 (EDT)
::Yeah, that proposal is failing, so I've been reverting wherever I've been finding it. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 07:16, May 25, 2024 (EDT)

== Re:Bringing up Encyclopedia Dramatica ==

This edit.[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_von_Schmeltwick&diff=4226565&oldid=4226557] Please stop. It would be wise to drop this subject all together. {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:59, May 25, 2024 (EDT)
:Will do. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 23:03, May 25, 2024 (EDT)

== Twitter -> X ==

This may be up for debate, but, for the time being, I wouldn't change instances of "Twitter" to "X" in citations unless the link was retrieved after the site rebranded on {{wp|Timeline of Twitter|July 23, 2023}}, because it's anachronic. If a link to a tweet was retrieved prior to that date, then the site it linked to at that moment in time was Twitter, and it's more accurate to state it that way.

If you choose to replace the site name in the url to accommodate your change, then the link is basically new (even if the twitter.com one redirects to the same place), so you'd have to change the retrieve date. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:19, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:I left the Wayback Machine links as twitter.com, though "twitter.com" redirects to "x.com" now (used to be vice versa) so that's why I thought it was okay. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:20, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::It's not something anyone would lose sleep over (especially since "X" is a stupid name and the site is still referred to as "Twitter" in casual conversation), but it doesn't hurt to be accurate down to a T(witter). {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:55, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:::The general consensus is that "X" is a bad rename, though that's still an opinion. The part about it being anachronic is considerable, though I'd base the decision on whether academic resources use that over personal opinion. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:16, June 5, 2024 (EDT)

== Noticed I was banned ==

My guess is that while the wiki wants to limit excessive coverage, the way I've been handling it is what earned me the temporary ban (i.e. discourtesy). The ban reason doesn't seem to concern the main pages themselves, since the last warning for that involved "sweeping changes," though I've been enacting the cite template, which is a "sweeping change" part of a democratically passed proposal. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:19, June 6, 2024 (EDT)

== Content templates ==

Hey, I'm just going to say that I don't really agree with the standardization of the content templates, like [[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Peach%27s_Castle_(world)&diff=next&oldid=4198300 this]]. The distinguishing between blue for NSMBU and green for NSLU is genuinely helpful and makes the page more visually interesting without being intrusive. Same with removing the the green templates from the Yoshi pages. Is there an admin or user consensus on changing these? {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 18:44, June 29, 2024 (EDT)
:{{@|Scrooge200}} It's based on how [[Help:Table]] was updated to take wikitables into account. The templates have been around now for a while. The colors are also arbitrary and not based on any codified standard like the navboxes. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:46, June 29, 2024 (EDT)

== Zelda proposal revisions ==

Due to some problems with my previous proposal, I've revised how I want to approach the ''Zelda'' pages.  Since you voted for the proposal anyway, I'm hoping you wouldn't mind taking a look at a [[User:DrBaskerville/sandbox#Remove_Zelda-exclusive_pages_.28revised.29|draft]] of the revised proposal and letting me know if you have any recommendations for improving it. I created a section on my talk page for any suggestions you might have before I post it again. {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 17:51, July 1, 2024 (EDT)

== Level maps ==

Hello [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]], so it turns out that you are updating the level maps, so that they use the <code><nowiki>{{Wide image}}</nowiki></code> template, but you are changing the section name from "Level map" to just "Map". Writing just "Map" might not mean it exactly to a [[level]], so from now on, can you write "Level map" instead? Thank you so much, Super Mario RPG. {{User:C11P/sig}} 02:57, July 6, 2024 (EDT)
:{{@|C11P}} Sure, I can do that. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 06:22, July 6, 2024 (EDT)

== Sentence structure for "generic" subjects and apology ==

Hey, I do not know how you percieved my reverts on your end, but I feel like I was snappy and unkind, and I apologize. I had a very difficult day.

Anyways, I took you up on your suggestion and started a discussion [[MarioWiki talk:Generic subjects#"X appears in Z as a Y" is awkward sentence structure, and I do not understand why we are integrating it|here]], if you were interested in engaging with it. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:43, July 7, 2024 (EDT)

== X-Fist proposal ==
I just wanted to let you know that I ended up including adding merging X-Punch with Magnus 2.0 to the X-Fist proposal and added more vote options to account for that. As such, I changed Support to mean you support merging both, but I know you only ever voted on the X-Fist proposal and not the (now cancelled) X-Punch proposal. Do you support both? I thought I'd message you here so you can change your vote if need be. --[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:05, July 14, 2024 (EDT)
:Sure, that's fine. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:07, July 14, 2024 (EDT)
::Thanks! --[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:08, July 14, 2024 (EDT)


==Bubbler in Perfect Dark Zero==

Reverting the edit again would be edit-warring so I'll give the context:

Perfect Dark Zero is a first-person shooter game, and it allows you to play the multiplayer modes against computer-controlled opponents (or "bots"). ''All'' of the names that are assigned to bot players are references: the names of characters in Perfect Dark Zero and the first Perfect Dark, itnernet memes involving Rare, the titles of obscure Rare games ("Captain Skyhawk", etc), the name of Killer Instinct characters, Banjo-Kazoie characters, etc. With this pattern of reference, it's obvious that one of the possible Bot names being "Bubbler" is meant to be a reference to Diddy Kong Racing specifically and not just a random coincidence. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 17:46, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

== Duplicate Arguments ==

Can you make sure there aren't any duplicate arguments when you convert citations to use the cite template? It'll tell you which parameter is being called multiple times in a single template by previewing the page while editing. - [[User:RHG1951|RHG1951]] ([[User talk:RHG1951|talk]]) 22:33, August 8, 2024 (EDT)
:Yeah, I don't know how that keeps happening. When I find errors I try to fix them. I'll try to be more careful from now on. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 22:35, August 8, 2024 (EDT)

== In regards to Smash Bros ==

That part of my proposed changes is not targeting you. It is necessary for the simple fact that I have been planning this proposal for months as part of my "sports games" overhaul, your proposal just happened to snipe it and force me to go ahead and type it out to show people what I meant. In order to put my idealized vision into effect, undoing yours is necessary. Nothing personal, our respective ideas are just so antithetical that the other will almost always come off as some level of antagonistic. Anyways, I would appreciate if you didn't bring up unrelated-and/or-old things as an attempted rebuttal, you did that on your proposal's comments too and it falls under the same type of issue as [[#Re:Bringing up Encyclopedia Dramatica|this]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:31, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
:{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Except ''Smash Bros.'' isn't a sport game -- it's a crossover fighting series. And this time the "rebuttal" has to do with something that happened just yesterday, on this very wiki, and followed almost immediately after a proposal of mine passed, not offsite issues. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 20:36, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
::In that case, it's unrelated to the current proposal, which is to avoid someone deliberately gaming the system. And I only made that project section just now because the list I made in the comments was still easily accessible - and I always have a weirdly difficult time finding that specific proposal archive rather than the one that's just the colored bars - so I figured now would be the best time to grab that and paste it somewhere. Also, organized fighting is, indeed, a sport, just as vehicular racing is. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:42, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

== Truce? ==

I'm really tired of this ''Smash'' thing getting so heated. Can we both just agree to calm down while discussing that subject? I don't like being stressed out. Thanks. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:02, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure I'm calm, though I'm not happy. Since you're trying every avenue to undo my ''Pokemon'' proposal, it's only expected that I'd respond to attempts at that. Even though quorum rules changed, it doesn't change the fact that people have agreed to my proposal, something that you have a hard time accepting. And I'm seeing the new SSB proposal is having more support votes than oppose. I'd cite you're the person making this heated because you're fighting hard to keep irrelevant content on this wiki even though a number of community members don't want it anymore and are willing to part ways with it. This is not me insulting you, it's stating facts. If SmashWiki had all of the same community members and manual of style, I can guarantee you and others wouldn't be fighting for all of the irrelevant ''Super Smash Bros.'' material to stay on this wiki. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:09, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
::You've been doing everything you can to belittle me this entire time, and acting like I'm trying to treat the wiki as my property simply for having a different opinion than you. Very well, if you must reject my attempt at friendship, I won't bother. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:18, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::"Belittle" and "difference of opinion" are not the same thing. Why go after me in particular and not the others who supported either my proposal or the current ''Smash Bros.'' one? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:21, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
::::Because you're the one who has been going out of their way to aggravate me as much as possible. Primarily with the dismissive attitude. I don't know, maybe I just see too much of myself in you. Either way, the offer to bury the hatchet stands, if you are ever interested. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:25, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::::If you want to make a smash bros. side project, ok that's your thing. but at least half of this community doesn't want to bear the weight of additional non-''Super Mario'' content. It's one thing to oppose a proposal, but then it's another thing to be trying all means possible to try and undo a proposal that passed. This likely stems from disliking SmashWiki because, like I've said, if they did things in a way that you liked, you wouldn't see the need to duplicate the info twice. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:31, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
::::::I have specifically stated I refuse to stoop to corrupt and dirty tricks to undo your proposal. Yes, I would ''like'' for it to be undone, but only with the support of the community if they favor my idea instead (and given the change it rules, that would have to be an even greater margin than how yours past). Undoing proposals in favor of other methods is a matter of course; if mine ends up passing, it too may be undone some time down the road. That's just how it goes. And yes, I will admit that I find Smashwiki's approach... unprofessional in what and how they cover, and that does indeed factor in a little bit, but does that truly matter? I've given a dozen other reasons why it makes more sense for ''Mario'' to have a larger amount of coverage than the other guest franchises that don't relate to Smashwiki's methods. I don't want to make things be about personal vendettas, between websites, users, or anything else. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:36, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Yes, but I could've sworn I saw twisted arguments (e.g. claiming Nintendo101 ordered or wanted no one else to make further ''SSB'' proposals when that wasn't the case). Also, you just admitted you let that dislike of SmashWiki factor in a bit? Even if you say (and I'll have to assume you're truthful of saying at least a small factor), that still is allowing a dislike of a certain community. If you feel strongly about the content, are you going to make a proposal for this wiki to create its own Super Smash Bros. wiki? That wouldn't work, at all. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:41, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Speaking as the proprietor of the [https://triforcewiki.com/wiki/Main_Page Triforce Wiki], that can easily be done without a proposal (RMV actually planned on making a separate Smash Bros. Wiki, but he unfortunately went off his rocker and that never materialized). But a negative opinion and a "vendetta" are not the same thing. Also, what I said was N101 recommended they be done as an omnibus and stated that the piecemeal ones should be stopped because they cause too many issues (thus being "bad" as I put it) - that is indeed what she said. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:52, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::If you got a ''Zelda'' wiki perhaps you can ask whoever hosts it to get you a smash bros. one as well. I'm saying this not because i'm interested, but because you feel very strongly about the SSB content, and you seem to have a couple of others who would be willing to help you on that. however, making that would probably require input from several other community members. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:57, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

== Smash item page ==

I know how it feels. Trust me, I really do (hell I've been working on the ''Mario Kart Tour'' character table in a single edit consecutively for weeks). But if you want to ensure it, you need to put it on a personal project page, like a subpage of your sandbox, and discuss it with the community. I learned that the hard way myself - they had an ''overwhelmingly supported proposal'' to decide to revert it then, which you probably remember. (On a more personal note, I think the table itself looks great, though the NioL is rather awkward.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:01, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
:You actually like the wikitable? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:28, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
::It's perfectly serviceable as a wikitable. I'm not sure if it'll be too necessary if my own ''Smash'' proposal goes through (though parts of it could be implemented on the series page and the game pages), but I think it does what it was intended to do just fine. I do not like large stacks of NioL tables in pages that aren't made specifically for them, however - part of why I split all the SMRPG [https://www.mariowiki.com/Armor?action=history armor] and [https://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_weapons_in_Super_Mario_RPG:_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars?action=history weapon] pages from the list pages they were before (yes we had a page on the ''Smash'' fan without a page on the SMRPG fan. Crazy, innit?). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:36, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
:::Yeah, that's pretty backwards. I wish I had thought of the possible wikitable ideas before I got warnings and temporary block, since I saw it as community doing something that is tantamount to paraphrasing SmashWiki pages, when I could've just tried overhauling the pages to show the community instead. I actually expected dispute over my list of ''SSB'' items, but added to article in case of consensus. I think wiki tables for the extra Smash Bros. content will work really well. The list pages being clumps of articles is just something that's begging to be changed, whether one wants the coverage or not. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:45, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I'll probably go ahead and remove the items thing from my proposal if the list ends up keeping it, because it really is a lot more serviceable like this. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:57, September 13, 2024 (EDT)

== "assumptions" ==

I try to keep good faith, but I'm not really sure if you can convince me that when you [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Super_Smash_Bros.&diff=4368013&oldid=4368011 made these two proposals] -immediately- after and below where [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Super_Smash_Bros.&diff=prev&oldid=4368007 I told you my proposal would be next week], after waiting three weeks to implement your previous proposal, that it did not cross your mind at all that doing so would push my ability to make [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick/Projects#Clarify coverage of the Super Smash Bros. series|the proposal]] you knew about well in advance for an additional month, after being ''so close'' to being time to propose it. I invite you to try and convince me of that, but with all that evidence it really feels like you wanted to get a rise out of me, and I really don't appreciate that. If it was indeed unintentional, I apologize, but in that case you might need to work on sensitivities. Because it ''really'' feels like you wanted to mess with me and then act holier-than-thou when I inevitably took issue. Just.... please be more considerate, OK? Thank you. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:03, September 17, 2024 (EDT)
:The Pokemon proposal had passed, I still support the precedent it set, and the proposals I made are based upon the inconsistency left. When you brought up that point during the Pokemon proposal, I'm pretty sure I said that they could be a focus of a follow-up proposal, and I've kept to my word on that. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:26, September 17, 2024 (EDT)
::*Shrug* I still wish you'd started that earlier, then. Since it's been so long, I was under the impression you were going to go ahead and let me do mine - and suddenly doing it near what would have been the end of the waiting time as I had told you immediately before felt like a massive middle-finger at me. Please understand, you don't have anything stopping you from making proposals on this matter, and I do with how the rules work, so naturally I'm going to be under a little more stress than you are with this. (Also, that proposal I'd made on the wait length wasn't targeting you; Mushzoom had also made a proposal on ''Smash'' coverage in the interim; it just ''happened'' to be something I'd neglected to cover in the proposal I'm planning. Anyways, I'd support if you went ahead and made a TPP on the Smash item page to implement your redesign there. ;) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:12, September 17, 2024 (EDT)

== Mario Kart DS article edits ==

Hey, I just want to leave a short message to let you know that numerous edits you have been making, specifically to the ''[[Mario Kart DS]]'' course articles, are subpar and I have gone through and reverted many of the changes you have made, and want to leave a message to explain why so you do not revert them back.

Your writing for much of these articles is considered subpar, when I brought attention to wiki staff they seemed to agree. For example, many of your edits included typos, such as a line on Tick-Tock Clock reading "The layout of Tick-Tock Clock goes mostly unchanged, although it does features '''mor''' detail than the original." Which is unnecessarily wordy, repetitive and is reiterating itself. Please be wary of this in future edits. Another example of subpar writing include one on Desert Hills reading "Aside from a graphical update, Desert Hills received a few other updates."

Additionally, your edits were inconsistent with other course articles, such as merging all games into one big section. Finally, your edits to the opening portions are very messy, and feature info that belong in specific games sections. Also there is some info that I could not find a source for, such as Cheep Cheep Beach supposedly being called "Cheep Cheep Shore" originally. I couldn't find any info about this on The Cutting Room Floor or on this wiki.

Please bear these in mind if you ever return to editing these articles.

Apologies if I come off as confrontational, I have gone through all 166 course articles editing them to standard, and this message was put here at the request of a member of the wiki staff. {{User:RealStuffMister/sig}} 19:46, September 20, 2024 (EDT)
:That's fine. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 19:56, September 20, 2024 (EDT)
::For transparency sake, I advised YoYo to send a message to you. Please remember what we have advised months ago about making sweeping changes that affect multiple pages. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:15, September 20, 2024 (EDT)
:::Part of why I edited those articles is because I saw duplication of information (for example, articles would say like it's a course of Flower Cup in the opening and the two-header game section), so I thought I was resolving that problem. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 20:18, September 20, 2024 (EDT)
::::Please bear in mind that sometimes info appears more than once on a page because it is necessary info, the repeating of when a course appears in what cup is important on the course articles as, in the opening, it introduces its retro reappearances, and then in subsequent game sections, it serves as an introductory line to the appearance in said game. It serves as an ease into the feeding of information, with crucial info being present there. The cups are referred to multiple times in some course articles, so some form of "duplication" is not just inevitable, but bordering essential to not disrupt the flow of information. Also, there were numerous other edits you did outside of fixing duplication that may be seen as a problem, such as grammar and flow. {{User:RealStuffMister/sig}} 20:22, September 20, 2024 (EDT)
:::::If I'm correct, I think if there's dispute over edits, that's an indicator that a corresponding proposal should be made. I actually did not think there would be any dispute, since Layout is the two-section heading of the level pages, and courses are the ''Mario Kart'' equivalent. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 20:31, September 20, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Once again you do not address the other points I raise, please respond to them. Also the separation of sections dependant on individual games is justified here since more than just the layout is discussed in each game's section. Each game also has their own sections, such as shortcuts, missions, tournaments, glitches, sponsors, etc. I'm not a moderator here, nor am I a member of staff, but please do not make rambunctious edits like this across multiple pages at once, the flaws, most of which are not really "disputed", in the way you edit become very agitating to revert when they are on multiple pages. {{User:RealStuffMister/sig}} 20:53, September 20, 2024 (EDT)

== DKC things ==

Considering you are on -multiple- Last Warnings for wide sweeping changes made without consensus, I would be ''very'' cautious if I were you before deciding that because of how you interpret one rule you are obligated to remove a bunch of stuff without consensus. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:31, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:Except for this case, these are only a few pages, not 40, 50, or even 300. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:32, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
::They are still large pages on major games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:35, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

== leaving ==

I guess I won't be editing here anymore. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:08, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:You don't need to leave for good, it's just a month-long block. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:11, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
::It's more a leave from being regretful. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:20, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::Well, wherever you end up, I hope the best for you. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:02, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

== Blocked for a month ==

Unfortunately, your recent activity has been actionable. Your edits have been still continually prompting complaints from multiple users, including at least two disputes with Doc von Schmeltwick, with latest one regarding Donkey Kong Country for Game Boy where you had an ongoing talk page dispute[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Donkey_Kong_Country_(Game_Boy_Color)&oldid=4371964] and decided to take action on a page while the dispute was unresolved. (diff[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Donkey_Kong_Country_(Game_Boy_Color)&diff=4371964&oldid=4371961] where Doc Von Schmeltwick drops the last comment is on 09:23, September 21, 2024; yours[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Donkey_Kong_Country_(Game_Boy_Color)&diff=4371976&oldid=4371972] is on 09:28, September 21, 2024) another with YoYo with multiple Mario Kart DS pages. I also took note your response[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Super_Mario_RPG&diff=4371985&oldid=4371978]; the simple quantity of the pages is not relevant compared to how your incorrect interpretation of the rules led to multiple pages being changed. And, recently, you made multiple major, yet questionable prose changes affecting Paratroopa[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Koopa_Paratroopa&diff=4370676&oldid=4369867], Winter Windster[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Winter_Windster&diff=4372129&oldid=4250273], Mean Emcee[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mean_Emcee&diff=prev&oldid=4372116], Bony Beetle[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Bony_Beetle&diff=4370742&oldid=4356088], Platypunk[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Platypunk&diff=prev&oldid=4372130], Big Bone-Fish[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Big_Bone-Fist&diff=prev&oldid=4372037], and plenty more which involve the same prose-related issues that was raised on your talk page. Plenty of those edits, such as in Platypunk, were made after the unresolved dispute involving Mario Kart DS articles, see older discussion (edits were in September 21, dispute was September 20). I will reiterate my advice: proceed with caution when making major changes to multiple articles. Try instead making minor changes such as formatting Names in Other Language or simple grammar fixes rather than prose edits (you aren't forbidden from prose edits but just be careful). Or, you can make major changes but you can keep it to one article or two such as a merge proposal affecting two, so if there is a dispute, we can resolve it in one page rather than comb through multiple pages. If you get involved in a dispute, please resolve them.

We understand that you are trying to improve your behavior due to your acknowledgement of all the criticisms being mad. I will still gently remind my advice as I did with your dispute with YoYo, even after this block expires, but you need to be extra cautious after this second block. Take care. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:10, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:{{@|Mario}} I appreciate the civility, but I think it would be better if I stopped editing here. I feel terrible at the moment and my reputation here is beyond fixable. I have this personal issue in which I like everything to be structured in perfect consistency (opening section, the way sentences are laid out). It's just not always easy to accomplish that. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:16, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
::I understand you're stressed and feeling like you're treading on eggshells, but it's not true your reputation is "beyond fixable". I do think you can improve on your edits. Policy normally called for a three month block on second violation, but I shortened it as I believe that's more appropriate. In case you're worried about block policy; in spite of what block policy says I strongly don't believe in imposing indef blocks on users like you at any point; that sort of thing can scare off contributors for making mistakes, even if blocks can be appealed at a later point. As I said, you can even continue to try to make changes you see fit, but limit where you apply these to articles because if people identify what you did wrong, at least it's easier to address these and fix. The prose edits' biggest issues was not that the prose was disputable but that it affected more than a few pages and so we had to pore over your edits to see what's going wrong. It's your call to resume editing or leave the wiki for being too stressed, however, so I'm not going to try to push you either way. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:42, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

== SSB proposal ==
{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} I noticing your Smash Bros. proposal. First, thank you for adding Option 1 based on the edit that I did. Secondly, Axii against options 6, 7, and 8 could suggest more options to be added, though that could become unnecessarily long. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:15, October 3, 2024 (EDT)
:That's the thing about compromises. Not even I fully "like" everything the proposal entails, but I feel it works as the best in-between for the sheer wide gap of opinions on the subject. And yeah, that'd get too long. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:17, October 3, 2024 (EDT)
::The issue of Pokemon images being undeleted is what if there's yet another SSB proposal that passes where the result is all of them being deleted a third time? If there's enough people against one of the options, I'd suggest only then making separate options in the proposal. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:21, October 3, 2024 (EDT)
:::The Pokemon image thing only barely passed after I brought up the alternative fairly late into its cycle, so I'm not especially worried about that. Either way, I'll simply watch and wait for now, and clarify as needed. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:26, October 3, 2024 (EDT)