View source for User talk:Nintendo101/Archive 1

{{talk archive|User talk:Nintendo101}}
==Regarding to your recent Character Artworks uploads==
I notice the artworks you have recently uploaded, but what you need to know is to not cut off part of a [[:File:Rosalina Mk7.png|character artwork]] for the character's pages. Unless one existed single high resolution art file from a reliable source such as Nintendo, or video game source site (as such IGN or GameStop).

{{User:Lindsay151/sig}}

Thank you. As I am new to the wiki I was unaware of this. I will no longer make this mistake.

== Forum account? (Regarding your recent uploads rel. to M&S Rio 2016) ==

Hey, just wondering, do you have a forum account by any chance? Because there is something that I wish to ask you about those M&S Rio 2016 arts in question that I can't post here on your talkpage. Let me know soon; thanks so much in advance for your time. --M. C. - [[User:MeritC|Profile]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 10:27, 14 December 2017 (EST)

Hi, M.C. I unfortunately do not have a forum account, but I do have an email account. Is there a problem, or just an inquiry? Could you at least explain or hint at why you cannot ask me here on my talkpage? [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:32, 19 December 2017 (EST)

==Koopa Troopa==
Sorry, I didn't see the direct, but how are you sure Koopa Troopa would be "unlockable" and not default or an NPC player? Koopa Troopa isn't a series regular, like Mario and Link are in Smash... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:38, 8 March 2018 (EST)
:Hi, Doc. The citation I attributed displays what I'm talking about. During the Direct, they announced an online tournament mode for ''Aces''. The reward for participating in these tournaments are "t-shirts" and "additional characters", and they showed silhouettes for each on screen. The character silhouette was very clearly Koopa Troopa - holding a tennis racket. You can see it at the 4:23 mark [https://youtu.be/mMHT2vdWvpg?t=4m23s here]. Let me know when you have seen this. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:52, 9 March 2018 (EST)
::Hm, not sure if that's "unlockable" in the traditional sense, seems to be a combination of that and DLC due to necessitating online interaction (a crummy way to have unlocking criteria, if you ask me...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:56, 9 March 2018 (EST)
:::Huh, you have a point. I never thought of it that way! I recall some people thinking/assuming/hoping they'll be means to unlock characters off-line, such as through the story mode. But in any case, would it be more appropriate to present the info as "Koopa Troopa ("additional" character)"? [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:00, 10 March 2018 (EST)

== Coelacanth ==

No one called you pedantic. The user simply updated the table from an older version, unawares overwriting the change you made. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 18:52, 11 February 2019 (EST)
:Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize if I seemed accusative. I have had unfortunate experiences recently with users on a few other wikis. I guess it made me a little defensive. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:16, 11 February 2019 (EST)
::No worries. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 22:05, 12 February 2019 (EST)

== Sources for images ==

Make sure you check the sources for the images when you upload artwork, don't just randomly use google images and post whatever you see there. Images must be official not fanarts even if they're replicas of official artwork [[User:CastleResearch|CastleResearch]] ([[User talk:CastleResearch|talk]]) 11:28, October 4, 2020 (EDT)
:Hi. I appreciate that you contacted me and I will be more careful identifying sources in the future, but I do not appreciate the implication that I locate images uncritically. I have never knowingly uploaded an image that was fanart, nor have I every casually pulled images from Google. Cheers.[[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:53, October 4, 2020 (EDT)
If you didn't use google images, then you would have known that it's fanart since it can be easily found here: https://www.deviantart.com/vinfreild/art/522059687 [[User:CastleResearch|CastleResearch]] ([[User talk:CastleResearch|talk]]) 21:58, October 4, 2020 (EDT)
:I located the image on a png depository site called FavPNG by chance in my attempt to locate lost official artwork from the ''Metroid'' and ''Star Fox'' series. Anyone can upload images to such a site and while some are fan creations quite a few are official images. It was seen there without any context and presumed official. This was in error. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:05, October 6, 2020 (EDT)

== Images ==

Hello, please don't upload models over game screenshots. Both have a place on this wiki, so they should be uploaded separately, not one over another. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 17:39, January 13, 2021 (EST)
:Sure thing. Sorry! I'll reverse my revisions. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:43, January 13, 2021 (EST)

Remember that when you upload an image, you need to place them somewhere. Otherwise they'll float around unused. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 21:19, March 30, 2021 (EDT)

== Mister I ==

Is that an actual render or just the textures artificially laid over each other? Because the latter's been deleted repeatedly for being inaccurate to their actual relative size. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:44, January 14, 2021 (EST)
:Hello! I am not sure, but I tentatively assume "no". I did not procure the image myself. It was uploaded [https://www.mariowiki.it/File:SM64-Mr.O.png here] on Mario's Castle by [https://www.mariowiki.it/Utente:Duraner_Hawkeye Duraner Hawkeye] (which I should have specified in the image summary and will fix after this post) and I assume good faith. There was no warning about this specific image file or any similar one having previously been uploaded to Mario Wiki, so I assumed it was fine. If this is a problem, I can remove it. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]])


==SMS==

Hey, I like what you've done with the character section on the Super Mario Sunshine page. Keep up the good work. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:09, January 25, 2021 (EST)
:Well that's kind of you. Thank you! I will keep trying to do my best. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:04, January 25, 2021 (EST)

re:

*The formatting is all nice and good. I like it.
*Having an introductory paragraph in the enemies section describing the game,s stylistic choice and departures from the series convention is a very niche touch, and something that could be done on more pages. I love it!
*The descriptions for the friendly NPCs could more consistently describe their gameplay presence. For example, you can mention Peach is a NPC in the hub until she's kidnapped, what the Toads do, the director's presence in the park missions. Also some repetitive wording ("state of panic").
*Generally, I think wikipedia links should be for a minimum. They're mostly used to link to obscure real world concepts, or media not covered by the wiki. Having a wiki link to tanukis is fine, but more general and widely-understood concepts like "robots", "palm treets" or "introversion" are unnecessary and look forced. 
* Spoils and appareance boxes: good idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 19:43, February 5, 2021 (EST)
:@Nintendo101: You've done such a wonderful job in the page! Maybe I can stea-I mean borrow your ideas when composing enemy tables for other game artciles. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 19:55, February 5, 2021 (EST)
::It seems like the [[Super Mario Galaxy 2]] article could use this treatment as well. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 20:36, February 5, 2021 (EST)
:::Glowsquid, thank you so much! Your response was more specific than I expected and I appreciate it. This gives me a good idea on what to work on. I can try to integrate more of what you suggest within the next few days. It is sometimes challenging to strike a balance on what is too much detail, and what is not enough.

:::Ray Trace, yes! By all means. Anyone can use these templates.

:::Keyblade Master, I actually did start a preliminary draft for the NPC section of SMG2 on my [[User:Nintendo101|user page]]. My progress on it has slowed because I am about to finish the game, and I honestly want to avoid spoiling some details for me. I haven't played Galaxy 2 since I was in grade school and I remember almost none of the late game stuff. I still like to be surprised in games. But I am almost done. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:58, February 5, 2021 (EST)

==SMG==
Hey, do you need any help for the organization of the article? I can upload cropped models of the preview planetoids before you enter the level in the dome. Such as this.

https://i.imgur.com/I6FJnJ9.png

(yes it's all in one spot but I can manage it) {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 16:57, February 16, 2021 (EST)
:Hi, Ray. I appreciate the offer for help! I'm guessing you've seen this already, but I have been working on a new level chart for Galaxy on my [[User:Nintendo101|user sandbox]]. I felt the current one in the article is a bit confusing and bulky. I started with the template I set up for [[Super Mario Sunshine#Courses|Sunshine]] and worked from there. Do you feel this is an improvement? Anything you'd do differently?
:Also, I start editing things on my own personal sandbox because I sometimes start projects and I'm not sure how long they'll take, but I believe there is a communal site "sandbox" that allows users to work on the same thing together. Do you know what I'm talking about? I've never used it before so I'm not fully sure how it works, but if you'd like for us to work on this together I can move the chart there.
:I appreciate the offer to render and screenshot the little galaxy preview models, but that seems like a lot of work and I'm not sure it's necessary. I personally prefer screenshots because I think they're a little more honest as to how these areas look like in-game. But that's just my opinion. Do you think the little galaxy preview models would be more serviceable? [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:38, February 17, 2021 (EST)
::I have indeed seen the screenshots but I feel the little planetoid previews in the domes before you enter a galaxy you see in-game are also pretty valid as well, since that's the first model players come across when selecting a level (also think Super Mario 64's article could use a preview of the level via painting but then again, not all levels are accessed through paintings). But on the flipside, I guess using noclip to view the planets is more consistent as some galaxies don't have preview models, but there's also the factor that some levels dynamically change in that you can't capture it with a single screenshot such as Freezeflame Galaxy. Maybe I should upload it into some other place than the main article, when I get official names for the planetoids on the meantime.
::Yes indeed I know that there exists [[MarioWiki:Sandbox]]. Personally, I don't use sandboxes myself nor the main sandbox to do page overhauls: I edit pages live, such as my ongoing work on [[Yoshi's New Island]] and how it's still in a rather incomplete state (sometimes I put a construction tag, sometimes I just don't).
::As for your work on Sunshine, I think you're doing a great job! IMO, I might curb down the use of color (as what color to use to portray a level can be seen as arbitrary and I could see edits from other users down the line debating what colors to use to represent a level) and just stick with the color the respective series infobox uses (such as sticking with greens in ''Yoshi's New Island'' as it matches its navtemplate)) but that is just a personal preference of mine and you don't have to abide by it. I also think your revision is an improvement over the current one because the screenshots are indeed a bit unwieldly using full resolution than just the cropped important bits that appear smaller to the view due requiring empty space. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 00:10, February 18, 2021 (EST)
:::Hi, again. Yeah, the consistency issue is part of the reason why I think screenshots are a little more serviceable for the chart. But you're right - some galaxies change dramatically between missions and because some galaxies consist of many planets, one cannot really capture all the places one can go in a single image. I'm just not sure that issue is resolved with using the galaxy preview models in the chart instead because not all galaxies have them. (That issue is also present in Mario 64, but there are also situations where multiple courses have identical looking paintings in that game like [[Jolly Roger Bay]] and [[Dire, Dire Docks]], so it may not be the best idea in that case either.) I do think the little galaxy preview models would work very well on the main articles for each galaxy, for what it's worth.
:::I use to edit things on the fly too, but I stopped doing that a few years ago when I was an active curator on SmashWiki. This was during the lead up to Ultimate when there was a lot of activity on the site. Article revisions were constant, and some less experienced users kept trying to undo revisions for arbitrary or mean-spirited reasons. Working on big projects in isolation before integrating them into articles was safer. But doing so may not be necessary for Mario Wiki - this place fosters a much friendlier environment.
:::Colors were integrated in the level charts because I think it makes it a little easier to immediately tell what info is associated with which course. I created similar figures for biology research papers I wrote while I was in undergrad and my professors thought it was a good idea. If you think it makes things more confusing or distracting than helpful, I can try to think of a different solution. If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them!
:::I was originally going to integrate "red" in the top banner for all the charts I made for Sunshine, 64, Galaxy, and Galaxy 2, but I saw that [[Super Mario 3D World]] has yellow banners and [[Super Mario Odyssey]] has white ones, so I thought it would be okay for each game to have different colored banners. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:09, February 18, 2021 (EST)

== Hey ==

Just wanted to congratulate you on all the awesome work you've done. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:07, March 4, 2021 (EST)
:Aww, thanks! I appreciate that, especially coming from someone as involved with the wiki as you. If you ever want help with a project on the site, feel free to ask. Also, if you have any suggestions or feedback on any of the things I have done, you're more than welcomed to let me know. I always welcome constructive criticism. – [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:45, March 4, 2021 (EST)
::A thing I should tell you is I separate game-rendered and data-rendered models in galleries, so if you update one type to the other, its placement there may need changed. Personally, I'd just as soon rather have both images since the visual effects on them are different. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 04:52, March 5, 2021 (EST)
:::I'll be a more more cognizant going forward. I also generally prefer separating in-game renders and data-rendered models (the former are more like game sprites). While I have you, are you by any chance familiar with [https://noclip.website/ noclip.website]? I am interested in downloading a couple of the game's textures for utilitarian and archival reasons (e.g. the Koopa Troop jolly roger flag; air bubble; quicksand warning sign; Bubble Breeze bubble texture; etc.), but it seems like there's no clear way to download the textures directly from the site. Do you know if I'm mistaken? – [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 10:26, March 5, 2021 (EST)
::::There may be 3d model rippers out there such as Ninja Ripper that can recognize when an application is using models (I tried looking up what noclips uses for renders on its website and it doesn't clarify) and could potentially rip textures from there. If not, Dolphin Emulator can dump textures as you're playing the title but you require a rom for that. I'm not too knowledgeable about Super Mario Galaxy modding so I don't know how to extract textures directly without needing to use Dolphin's dump utility. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 13:45, March 5, 2021 (EST)

Ditto, the amount of effort you've been putting into your editing is amazing. Fantastic work! --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:23, March 5, 2021 (EST)

==Re:Monster==
In my opinion, I just felt the connotation of the word "monster" is too heavy for use to describe it, like using "beast" to describe a giant spider. Even though the term is technically accurate and applies to the character, it's a hinge I don't like to straddle on. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 19:32, March 4, 2021 (EST)

:That's totally fair. I get it. I'm personally a bit more open to something like "monster" because it is used to describe Bowser himself in the Galaxy games by NPCs, and it's something reserved to describe creatures that actively try to harm Mario, so it seems applicable. From my perspective, referring to something like Dino Piranha as a "monster" isn't too different from calling Gobblegut a "dragon".
:I agree that something like "beast" or "ghastly" is too much. I'm not sure what I was thinking. I think I was trying to exercise terminology beyond just calling subjects "boss" or "enemy" because I didn't want subjects in the article to feel repetitive or formulaic to read about, and that's a trap I have fallen into in the past that I try to avoid. – [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:54, March 4, 2021 (EST)
::It's fine. I do think we should change up the writing at points, and I think we do need to use a good variety of words than the same repetitive writing. Contextualization is important too, if like the in-game NPCs or in-game descriptions refer to applicable beings as monsters and not in, say, a too colloquial tone, I guess we could use it. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 20:20, March 4, 2021 (EST)

==SMG Bolts==
Hey, good work on SMG! I've noticed that for your work on the game's object, the bolt link to the disambig. Despite this, the bolts in SMG are very distinct from the DK bolts, and honestly likely weren't meant to be the same. I assume they would be split in the future? {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 16:37, March 8, 2021 (EST)
:Hi, Doomhiker. Yes, I would not leave the Bolt link as it currently is in my sandbox for the final version in the main article. I think there should be a separate "Bolt (Super Mario Galaxy)" article. The same problem exists for the Water Valve, which links to a ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' item. It should probably have its own article too. However, my personal focus right now is just on the articles for the core Mario games, so I personally don't plan on writing up a "Bolt (Super Mario Galaxy)" article in the near future. That's something that can be addressed down the road. And thank you! I appreciate the compliment. I integrated similar revisions to the [[Super Mario Sunshine]] page. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:53, March 9, 2021 (EST)

== Show preview ==

If you'd like to see how your edit looks before saving, you should use "Show preview". This way, you don't flood the [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] or the page's history with repeated edits. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 17:24, March 11, 2021 (EST)
:Thanks, I will keep that in mind. Today in particular, personal matters pulled me away from projects before I could finish them, hence the frequent saves. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:07, March 11, 2021 (EST)

== Re: SMG2 Site Images ==

I don't know if this is a feature on the browser you're using, but in Firefox there is an option called "View Page Info" in the right-click menu. From there, the new window has a "Media" tab that shows a list of all images that the page is currently using. It's how I got images like [[:File:Color Splash BG.png|this]]. [[User:RHG1951|RHG1951]] ([[User talk:RHG1951|talk]]) 11:49, March 18, 2021 (EDT)
:Thanks! I found an extension for my browser that allows me to extract all images. It worked perfectly! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:10, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

== .jpg and .png ==

Hello, regarding {{file link|SMG2 Artwork Jammyfish.png|this}}, please do not convert a .jpg image into a .png image, as that is against our policy. You can still remove text, though, as well as remove backgrounds on .png images. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:33, March 18, 2021 (EDT)
:Thanks, I won't do so in the future. Would it be preferential that I reupload this image under its original designation? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:59, March 18, 2021 (EDT)
::Oui. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 04:39, March 19, 2021 (EDT)
:::[[:File:SMG2 Artwork Jammyfish.jpg|Merci]]! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:50, March 19, 2021 (EDT)
::::"You can still remove text, though, as well as remove backgrounds on .png images."
::::Only on certain images, like sprites where cropping out stuff is easy. But if an artwork comes with a background, trying to remove it tends to be messy and is also against our policy, as it would be an illegitimate image. You can read more about our policy at [[MarioWiki:Image use policy]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 12:10, March 19, 2021 (EDT)
:::::I do not believe cropping out "ユラリ" from the image conflicts with policy, as it is not an element of the image itself but a residual element from the book the photo was taken from. I do not believe I have removed backgrounds from isolated pieces of artwork either, because that does not meet curatorial standards. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:20, March 19, 2021 (EDT)
::::::A regular crop to focus on the subject is fine. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 12:22, March 19, 2021 (EDT)

== SMG/SMG2 sprites ==

Hey, just so you know, if a sprite is used in both games, it should be in the image categories for both. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 21:13, March 20, 2021 (EDT)
:Hmmm not sure I agree. I think an image should be categorized with its first usage because it reflects the project that bore it, but if it's policy I'll leave the categories alone. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:18, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

== SMG Terrace Graphic ==

Just came across your terrace graphic on the Galaxy page and had to let you know how cool and helpful I think it is. Very well done. --[[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 18:36, April 18, 2021 (EDT)
:Aww, thanks! I appreciate it. I was going for that. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:12, April 18, 2021 (EDT)

==Galaxy names==
Hey, so by the time I saw your message, I saw that you'd made the change from gravity arrow to Arrow Switch, so I figured you no longer see it as an issue. In case, let me explain what I meant there. Most of the names that you marked as "conjectural" were acceptable romanizations of Japanese names (though octopus is pending and I overlooked that Spring Topman is unsourced). <nowiki>{{conjectural|text}}</nowiki> is not meant for Japanese names and isn't even really used that often for subjects with articles already marked as <nowiki>{{conjecture}}</nowiki> (rather, it's more often used for minor subjects that don't have their own article). The only one that is "solely derived from internal data files" is the already-addressed [[Talk:Skeletal Fish Guard|Skeletal Fish Guard]]. It's a gray area, but more often than not, Nintendo does use final or at least descriptive names to label their files in their games. Sometimes, they'll even use localized names where you wouldn't expect, and localization will also reference internal names on occasion. Right now, internal filenames deemed understandable English are grouped under [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|development names]], meaning that they are generally considered a last resort for a proper name but will be considered as such. At some point, it was considered to give internal data its own template ala <nowiki>{{conjecture}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{another language}}</nowiki>, but that fell through. Again, if you have time, I'd encourage you to read through past discussions if you're confused about the application. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:48, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

== Super Mario Galaxy 2 rendering ==

Hi, the rendered ''Super Mario Galaxy'' models was ripped from Super1033. I uploaded them to the wiki, after he passed them to me on Discord. Ask to [https://www.mariowiki.it/Discussioni_utente:Super1033 Super1033]--[[User:Alternis|Alternis]] ([[User talk:Alternis|talk]]) 05:01, January 10, 2022 (EST)

== SM64 renders ==

Hello, our gallery for SM64 separates game renders and data renders. As such, if you update one to be the other type, I ask you change its position in the gallery (or more preferably, just have both images). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:23, January 10, 2022 (EST)
:Thanks for the reminder. I planned on doing so. I just ran out of time. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:58, January 10, 2022 (EST)

== Super Mario 3D Land/World Model Request ==

It's ok if you don't accept, but can you by any chance add Super Mario 3D Land/World models, like your Super Mario Galaxy ones? Also, you're doing an awesome job, keep it up! - MarioSpriters2D 5/3/2022

== Ring Around the Rocks ==

I feel the various "ring of object" things in the SMG games should share an article. Also, Bowser Jr.'s Fearsome Fleet has a unique variation that combines it with a valve. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:25, October 4, 2022 (EDT)
:I agree! Though I am not sure what name to commit to for a main article. Do you a have a video link or image of this variant from Fearsome Fleet in action? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:28, October 4, 2022 (EDT)
::I do not, but it is on the foredeck of the ship with the Wigglers if memory serves me right. It's a valve with a ring of small holes around it, with Star Bits coming out from the holes when the valve is spun from the top. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:20, October 5, 2022 (EDT)

== Favorite Games ==

I also like Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker! [[User:Toadetta|♡Toadetta♡]] ([[User talk:Toadetta|talk]]) 21:42, November 15, 2022 (EST)

==Artbook uploads==

I see that throughout 2021, you uploaded a number of pieces from [[The Art of Super Mario Odyssey]] seemingly sourced directly from a digital copy of the book. I know you didn't mean wrong but I need to ask you to discontinue such practices and be more careful in the future. The ones that were officially uploaded on places like Twitter are fair deal but even if it's not literally ''all'' the content of the book, the wiki should not serve as a direct substitute for something that's still on store shelves. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 10:20, January 22, 2023 (EST)
:Hi, Glowsquid. Thanks for reaching out. I will reframe from such uploads in the future. I only uploaded pieces I thought were interesting or noteworthy and thought it was fine considering other users have uploaded comparable pieces from scanned books in the past, but you are right - this is still a book in print. I would feel awful if this wiki and the other people who contribute to it fell under legal scrutiny from a publisher or IP-holder because I uploaded material uncritically.
:I think it would be wise to pull the scans I have uploaded thus far. Do you agree? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:05, February 1, 2023 (EST)

I've passed on your notice to the admins. I've stepped down from admin duties since April 17. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 11:49, May 7, 2023 (EDT)

== Re: Big Boo 64 ==

It applies to all .jpg across the board. Similarly, removing a white background in a .png artwork if fine if it's done skillfully. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:14, April 29, 2023 (EDT)
:Thank you! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 09:38, April 29, 2023 (EDT)

==page number needed==
I know that the game articles already use plenty of sources and it was a measure of convenience, but for future reference, when citing from print material, it's always preferable to include the page number. That's why <nowiki>{{page needed}}</nowiki> accompanies the <nowiki>{{ref needed}}</nowiki> template. Don't be too concerned with flooding the reference list since those subjects should get split into their own articles sooner or later. Also, when possible, specific names (usually capitalized or at least consistent) are preferred over generic descriptors (usually lowercase or one-off). Make sure you follow [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|Naming]] as well; we don't normally cite in-game references unless the text is obscure or easily missed, but in-game references do have precedence over others. A few of those subjects already have articles. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:48, May 20, 2023 (EDT)
:Hi, Link. Thank you for reaching out. I'll make sure to cite specific pages going forward. You're right, I was wary of having too many entries in the reference list for one article. I appreciate knowing that is okay.

:I will be careful with the naming of things. I have been working on the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' page (and related articles) for awhile, and the biggest challenge I have encountered is that very few of the objects that are treated as distinct in Shogakukan and Japanese source material were given discrete English names (i.e. [[Flower (grapple)|Yosshī Furawā]] and [[Flower (platform)|Hachi Hana]] have both only been called "flowers" in English material, even though they are in the same game), resulting in some ambiguity. I'm sure this is something you already know about that impacts a lot of games, but I just wanted to clarify the issue with some of the reference material available from this era.

:The trapeze vs. swing thing happened so long ago that I forgot it was ever mentioned to the player in-game, so that was just an oversight on my part. Sorry about that. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:53, May 20, 2023 (EDT)

== Re: Flophopper and 3D Land artwork ==

The official Japan guidebook.  --{{User:L151/sig}}

==Super Mario Galaxy reception section==
Hey, I wasn't there to look at the article for [[Super Mario Galaxy]] when you nominated it to be featured, but I do have a small request to expand the reception section. I don't think just reiterating reviewers giving it a score is adequate enough for it (why did Famitsu gave it a 38/40, elaborate on big outlet opinions, etc), and it's a stark contrast to an otherwise excellent very well done article. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 23:21, July 10, 2023 (EDT)
:Hi, Ray. Yes, I agree this section can be expanded, but it may be a little while before I can get around to it. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:39, July 12, 2023 (EDT)

== RE: English Mario Portal oddity ==

Yeah, it's still wonky. It alternates between the two languages every second time the link is opened. I've also seen that if the language is changed to Japanese and you open next page, it's stuck in Japanese as usual. As I said in edit summary, this seems to affect desktops/laptops only, mobile phones seem to work without problems. Just make sure the url contains <code>/mario/en/</code> and the Portal ''should'' be in English. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 11:20, November 27, 2023 (EST)
:I just checked this: if <code>en</code> is added manually, it may still open the page in Japanese. But at least the language selection at the bottom works correctly regardless. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 11:49, November 27, 2023 (EST)

== iQue Player controller ==
I saw [[:File:IQue R.png|this upload]], and I wanted to say that there is actually an L button on the iQue controller. As seen in [https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/182187/ this image], it appears that ''[[Mario Kart 64]]'' makes use of it too. [[User:Super Game Gear|Super Game Gear]] ([[User talk:Super Game Gear|talk]]) 16:19, December 2, 2023 (EST)
:That's weird! In the SM64 manual, the same button is labeled a [https://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo_64/supermario64/sheet/135867/ Z button]. Maybe That was something they did specifically to communicate SM64's controls, because its placement on the console would make more sense as an "L" button. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:31, December 2, 2023 (EST)
::It is clear from [https://youtu.be/I9CBzKGbze4?si=eb9FCv-UfO0Lt5fq&t=131 this video by Nintendrew] that the iQue Player has both an L and R button, with a Z button below the L button, so both are present. I have uploaded an L button option for the iQue to [[Template:Button]] for those interested. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:26, December 4, 2023 (EST)

== Chart template ==

You're a trooper!

{{User:Shokora/sig}} 04:23, January 31, 2024 (EST)

::Thank you. I'm glad I could help out! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:45, January 31, 2024 (EST)

== RE:Pendulum ==

It's apparently a name taken from ''New Super Mario Bros. U''{{'}}s Coin Collection video descriptions. You might want to ask [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] if you want further info. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 21:39, February 22, 2024 (EST)
:I'll check it out. Thank you! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:42, February 22, 2024 (EST)

== Rotating bar ==

Okay, I respect your reverting my edit, but do you mind if I put "only" in the right place? See "The Correct Placement of ''Only''" on [https://www.grammarbook.com/blog/effective-writing/only/ this webpage]. [[User:Dwhitney|Dwhitney]] ([[User talk:Dwhitney|talk]]) 23:08, March 24, 2024 (EDT)
:Hi, Dwhitney. Thank you for providing a point of reference. We were almost talking past each other there. Is [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Rotating_bar&diff=4169748&oldid=4169715 this better]? "Only" is now modifying the preposition "in", as opposed to the verb "found". - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:38, March 24, 2024 (EDT)
::Yes, that's grammatically correct. [[User:Dwhitney|Dwhitney]] ([[User talk:Dwhitney|talk]]) 00:25, March 25, 2024 (EDT)

== Proposal cleaned up ==

I cleaned up [[MarioWiki:Proposals#Broaden the scope of the &lcub;&lcub;unreferenced&rcub;&rcub; template|my proposal]] by adding the <code><nowiki><pre></nowiki></code> tags. You should take a look at what the template will look like from above. What do you think how my proposal looks? {{User:GuntherBB/sig}} 21:25, March 30, 2024 (EDT)

==Chain expansion request==
What chains are you referring to in ''[[New Super Mario Bros. Wii]]'' and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'' in the expansion request that you recently added to [[Chain (object)]]? Having created the article and played these games, I’d very much like to add coverage for them in the article but a tip on which level(s) they appeared in would be a huge help. Thanks. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 01:25, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
:Howdy! In some castle levels, you can swing from chains instead of the usual vines. It's just a cosmetic difference - they both work like rope swings. [https://www.models-resource.com/wii/newsupermariobroswii/model/46162/ Here are their models for reference]. There should be guides on the Internet Archives for both NSMBW and NSMBU that outline where they occur specifically in the game. If you want additional help tracking this info down, feel free to let me know. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:06, April 12, 2024 (EDT)
::Oh yeah, makes sense! I appreciate the resources you sent, I'll have the info added to the article ASAP. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 17:35, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

== RE: Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door ==

Thank you so much! I decided to work on it since it has been under construction for so long, I'm glad that it's working out! {{User:Yook Bab-imba/sig}} 18:02, April 28, 2024 (EDT)

== Peppers category ==

Yeah, my knowledge of botany remains limited. I just searched "pepper" on Wikipedia, and came to the article on {{wp|Piperaceae}}. Thanks to my hasty impatience, I linked it on the category page without paying much attention to which kind of "pepper" it referred to. My mistake! :P Thanks for correcting that, though. [[Category talk:Annelids|Yet again]], this wiki is educational beyond the ''Super Mario'' franchise... [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 17:40, May 2, 2024 (EDT)
:No worries! I mess up my plant families all the time, and I've had field jobs identifying them. It does not help that common names are often a red herring for the true relatedness between species, especially among plants, and that is always annoying. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:09, May 2, 2024 (EDT)

== [[Template talk:Profiles and statistics]] ==

I think your opinion on this would be valuable, so I'm inviting you to share it. I don't mean to force your hand or anything, but I do think, in light of recent discussions, that this topic requires a candid debate as well given its, I think, striking similarity to the case of Mario Kart Tour icons. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:35, May 14, 2024 (EDT)
:Sure! I'd be happy to check this out at some point. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 08:52, May 15, 2024 (EDT)

== Yoshis and turtles ==

Hi, I saw you removed [[:Category:Yoshis]] from [[:Category:Turtles]]. I want to point out that in [https://nintendoeverything.com/yoshis-crafted-world-devs-on-the-art-style-kindergarten-inspiration-flip-side-gimmick-more/ this interview] they are explicitly called turtles. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 08:48, June 8, 2024 (EDT)

== Enemy tables  ==

We need a compromise. You're referring to an enemy as singular in the "Name" column, but you're describing the enemy starting with an incomplete sentence as plural in the "Description" column. I read in a grammar book that if a word is singular in one sentence or a part of a sentence but is referred to as plural with a plural pronoun without the word's plural form in another sentence or another part of a sentence, it's not grammatically correct. (e.g., You can drink from a straw. They do not always bend.) I'm trying to make the table grammatically correct because singular ≠ plural. [[User:Dwhitney|Dwhitney]] ([[User talk:Dwhitney|talk]]) 14:41, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

:Howdy. To clarify my approach to writing, I am not a {{wp|Linguistic purism|linguistic purist}} or an [https://youtu.be/uLgn3geod9Q?si=Z7ok65r-kkKUhBCh etymological fallacist]. My view of language is more utilitarian, and what constitutes as "good writing" is not necessarily grammatically correct (nor does it "have" to be). So while this supposed rule you mention is wholly new to me, and frankly a little unclear to understand, I do not personally find it inherently meaningful.

:I should also clarify that I view enemies as analogous to species, and these tables as comparable to entries in field guides and similar books. (For NPCs, I tend to interpret them as people first and species second, and there are some individual characters that share the same name as their species, hence the slight differences in how I handle these tables.) My career IRL is in the natural sciences, so these are texts I have a lot of personal familiarity with. While individual books tend to adopt different overarching principals, the general trend is that headers are presented singularly. In the main body paragraphs, subjects are often (but not consistently) discussed in the singular initially, but transition to plural where needed in the paragraphs, and back again when necessary. It is not uncommon for field guides in particular to not adhere to grammatical standards in their listings. I have provided some examples [https://imgur.com/a/XKdXpzk here]. Text underlined in red represent singular use of nouns, blue indicates plural usage, and green conveys sentences that deliberately do not adhere to grammatical principals. There may have been a few I missed in the other books.

:A difference between these books and how I have written the enemy tables is that a species inherently is represented by many individuals. In ''Super Mario'' games, where there is sometimes enemies represented by only one individual, I think pluralizing subjects in the descriptions for enemies where there are multiple members in the game is intuitively clarifying. If singular, there is only one. Like the books I cite above, I rather keep the name columns for enemies singular. As mentioned in the previous revision on the ''Super Mario 64'' page, I do not think it is explicitly necessary to open the description by repeating the name of the subject. It is redundant and does not, in my view, make the description better. With the exception of Reeves et al. (2002), this is exemplified in at least some of the material I presented above as well, specifically the description for the common goldfish, the West Indian manatee, and the hummingbirds.

:I hope this was helpful. What type of compromise would you want to see? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:54, June 10, 2024 (EDT)
::I'll clarify what I said in the example sentences I gave: In the first sentence, the singular noun "straw" is used, but in the second sentence, the pronoun "They" is used to refer to the plural noun "straws." However, "straws" isn't used in the first or second sentence, so there's no mentioned noun that "They" can refer to. In some of the examples you gave me (particularly the headings and descriptive paragraphs), correct grammar is used. In the descriptive sections with incomplete sentences, your writing format of tables is used. I guess I can ask Mario jc about this talk and get his opinion. [[User:Dwhitney|Dwhitney]] ([[User talk:Dwhitney|talk]]) 17:31, June 10, 2024 (EDT)

==Appreciation and New Challenge==

I really appreciate your contributions to the discussion on Whacka as it helped me understand the policy more thoroughly than what anyone else had offered. You also made some helpful notes in my Grifty proposal, but now I find myself in a similar situation with [[Podley]]. To avoid flooding proposals with what turn out to be one-sided positions, I created a section on [[Talk:Podley]] because it seems there's been a years' long debate whether or not he's Beanish. Since you've been so helpful in the other, similar debates, I'd appreciate your insight on how to approach the situation as well. {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 18:24, June 12, 2024 (EDT)
:Would you mind adding your edit summary to the talk page, please, so we can reference it in debate? {{User:DrBaskerville/sig}} 22:29, June 12, 2024 (EDT)
::Sure thing! Sorry, I was lazy. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:30, June 12, 2024 (EDT)

== In regards to my tables ==

You told me you had trouble with some of my wider tables on mobile, so I have pushed an update to them that makes it so they squish on the thinnest screens (and incidentally, shrinks down the images you felt were unneeded to be practically invisible). I'd appreciate if you looked at the MKW retro course table now and tell me on that page's talk whether I did good or not. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:28, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
:I have brought up the possibility of removing the ghost data and putting it on the ghost page, or at the very least having my course tables and WaluigiTime's ghost tables separately, as I feel both are better than the pre-edit counterparts. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:45, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
::Hi, sorry about that. I misread the end of your message. I thought you wanted me to reply on your own talk page.
::To be clear, I don't necessarily know offhand what is the best info to keep and what is not. Despite my cringy username, I am not an expert on all things Nintendo. I feel like I would have to try making a ''Mario Kart'' table from scratch or something and think critically about it. Ghost data might be important. However, principally, from my background in science, I know it is best to avoid including the same information in a document in multiple ways. For example, I think your tables look best on the ''[[Super Mario Kart]]'' article. However, even here, the individual values on the drivers table are on the performance chart in the same article, so I would either remove that info from the driver table or remove the performance chart from the article entirely.
::That was the primary reason why I recommended keeping only artwork or icons of characters, karts, etc. in tables, not both. I suspect it would even make these tables scale better across displays if some of the visual information was removed.
::I hope it doesn't seem like I'm giving you a needlessly hard time. I can tell you put a lot of effort into the tables. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:02, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::The performance chart in the SMK article is actually more about performance on individual courses, not stats (though there is a couple) XD. I just borrowed the symbols since they roughly matched up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:09, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
::::The triangle looks so sad :< - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:10, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Anywhays, I did the thing with the ghost data, so now the race tracks are laid out more like the battle courses. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:04, July 4, 2024 (EDT)

== Congrats on becoming a patroller! ==

Congratulations on becoming a patroller Nintendo101! You've earned it for being such a great user! {{User:Sparks/sig}} 11:58, July 11, 2024 (EDT)

^Ditto. Congratulations! Well deserved! {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:36, July 11, 2024 (EDT)

::Thank you both so much! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:08, July 11, 2024 (EDT)

Just saw that you're now a patroller. Congrats, great job, and keep up hard work! [[User:Mari0fan100|Mari0fan100]] ([[User talk:Mari0fan100|talk]]) 12:31, July 12, 2024 (EDT)
:Thanks a bunch! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:45, July 12, 2024 (EDT)

== NSMB boss list ==

Why did your wip remove the normal Bowser Jr. and the alternate Bowser in favor of just the alternate Bowser Jr. and the normal Bowser? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:32, July 17, 2024 (EDT)
:I'm still playing around with it, so nothing here is final, but paratext for ''New Super Mario Bros.'' indicates there is one Bowser boss, and he is just larger in the second encounter. (Curious to know if you offhand agree with how they conceptually lump those boss battles together.) I usually only commit to one image reference for individuals - if it's a multimembered species or a subject that has radically different forms I may include it if it does not distort the shape of the table. I personally didn't think Bowser Jr. looked different enough between encounters to justify the inclusion of two sprites. I kept the alternate sprite of him only because I felt it looked a little dynamic and I liked that about it. It's a similar case with Bowser - yes, he is larger in the second encounter, but since this current draft of the table treats Bowser as a single boss that is encountered twice, I did not want to incorporate two images of him. I thought keeping the sprite of his initial appearance was serviceable. I'd rather only include the big Bowser sprite if we committed to listing it separately in its own dedicated row. Does that make sense? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:04, July 17, 2024 (EDT)
::I guess it makes sense, but given functional differences I find it more sensible to include both. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:34, July 17, 2024 (EDT)

== Smash images ==
A lot of those were not actually supposed to be tagged for deletion, they were just marked as such by a user who misunderstood a proposal and refused to clean up their mess. Please undelete them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:55, July 19, 2024 (EDT)
:Hi, Doc. Do you remember where this was discussed prior, and could you direct me to it? Because those images were sitting there for months. You could tag me on Mario Boards if discourse was held there. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:00, July 19, 2024 (EDT)
::See [https://www.mariowiki.com/User_talk:Super_Mario_RPG#Deletion_templates_for_Smash_redirects this conversation], relevant proposal links included. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:02, July 19, 2024 (EDT)
:::Thank you. In our defense, someone previously familiar with that discussion could have reintegrated those screenshots if they wanted to or at least remove the deletion tags.
:::Sparks and I are attempting to delineate whether this is something we can do, otherwise we may need to wait for someone of a higher ranking position to be available. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:15, July 19, 2024 (EDT)
::::The screenshots have been restored by {{User|porplemontage}}. You will find them in [[:Special:UnusedFiles]]. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:28, July 20, 2024 (EDT)

== Princess vs. Toadstool ==

While I understand the reverts on my edits trying to include other playanle characters, I see no reason why Toadstool should be reverted back to Princess. She is clearly stated to be "Princess Toadstool" in the manual, the only usage of simply "princess" is the credits. [[User:Wario World|Wario World]] ([[User talk:Wario World|talk]])
:Howdy! On page 5, they also refer to Peach as "Princess" with Toadstool in parentheses, so my interpretation of the game's script is that "Princess" is the preferred shorthand for her in ''Super Mario Bros. 2''. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:58, August 11, 2024 (EDT)

== NSMBW renders ==

Those mostly look excellent, but is there a way to make them be colored less.... like ''Mario Sports Superstars'' artwork? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:58, August 15, 2024 (EDT)
:Thank you! And I probably could. I am still a little inexperienced with Blender, but I still have all of these models saved so I could change attributes a bit more in the future. I agree they look a little less saturated than they do in-game.
:It may be as simple as my source of lighting in Blender. I have been using [https://polyhaven.com/hdris HDRs] to create a consistent unifying environment for these renders, and that can really change how a model appears. You can see how different lit environments can change how a model looks in the file history for [[:File:NSMBW Asset Model Fish Bone.png|Fish Bone]], for example. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 08:41, August 15, 2024 (EDT)
::Real quick, in the link I provided on HDR environments, there are little spheres at the bottom of each preview to showcase how they would look in that environment. If there is one you feel looks good for ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'', feel free to let me know. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 08:49, August 15, 2024 (EDT)
:::Heh, lighting's always an issue in Blender. I'd probably start with one of the Kloofendal ones, personally. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:42, August 15, 2024 (EDT)

== Openers ==

I'm letting you know I saw your message. I felt that it was sort of a tough one because like, let's say, "Bob-ombs in" or "Bob-ombs appear in" suggest that they originate from outside the ''Super Mario'' franchise, like generic subjects, and I tried to think of a good way to phrase it. Or perhaps I'm overthinking things. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 09:04, August 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Hey, sorry for the late reply. I was at work for most of the day.
:I think I understand what you mean. I think writing the enemy articles can be inherently a little tough because they should be comfortable to read as one page and in pieces (for folks who want specific information for one game). However, I think if the opening paragraph says (and I'll use a different example because Bob-ombs did emerge in Doki Doki Panic before appearing in Mario):
:<blockquote>'''Spinies''' are [[List of enemies|enemies]] in the ''Super Mario'' franchise that debuted in ''Super Mario Bros.'' yada yada</blockquote>
:You have already clarified that Spinies, first and foremost, are ''enemies'' in the ''Super Mario'' franchise. It becomes a bit monotonous, clinical, and not super fun to read to further clarify for every game entry in the history section that "Spiny is an enemy in ''NAME OF GAME HERE''" because:
:# The opening paragraph said Spinies are enemies, so this is not new information for the reader. They have already been told it is an enemy.
:# The reader also already knows it is in ''NAME OF GAME HERE'' because we use the games as subheadings in the history sections. If it was not in the game, it would not have an entry here, so this information is also not new.
:The space would better be focused on describing Spinies presence in ''NAME OF GAME HERE'' in design, mechanics, etc. and how this differs from ''NAME OF GAME HERE 2'' or ''NAME OF GAME KART''. The only contexts where one needs to specify what a Spiny is would be the few instances where it is not an enemy because that would be a legitimate deviation from what has already been established in the opening paragraph. Does that make some sense? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:22, August 23, 2024 (EDT)
::It does. I suppose a "Spinies appear in [media name]" is simple enough, if going by the fact that's fulfilling their default role. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 23:28, August 23, 2024 (EDT)
:::Are you sure individual entries in the history sections need to have the same opener? In my experience at least, articles are more enjoyable and engaging to read if the individual pieces in them were not written the same way just with subtle variation. For example, instead of saying "Spinies appear in [media name]" for each entry, one could say "Spinies appear only within [level name] in [media name]. It is an underground course where they drop from the ceiling." for one game, and then for the next game the opener can be "In [media name 2], Spinies were given a radically different design but inherent much of the same function as in previous games. yada yada." - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:51, August 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::I suppose I just wonder under which terms which sentence opener would be used and when, just so then it's clear others what to use and when. "[subject] appears in" is like if they fulfill a default role (e.g. "Goomba appears in ''Super Mario Bros.''") and then "Goomba is a playable character in ''Super Mario Party''" if the role is different. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 22:56, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

== Appreciate the proposal input ==

Just came here to say that I appreciate the input you gave in the comments on the proposal. I added another voting option based on your feedback (keep artwork but nix screenshots). However, the proposal's gone on for about three days, so since my proposal began August 21, is this the last day I can made alterations to it (that is, mainly the last to add additional voting options if needed)? I'm not soliciting votes and I don't mind if you oppose ultimately, since proposals are about whether users agree or disagree with what's being presented. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:58, August 24, 2024 (EDT)
:It is completely fine to have reached out :)
:I do appreciate you carving an option out based on my inquiry, but I still have some reservations. While I do generally prefer main game articles are more holistically complete (regardless of whether they are crossovers) and I do agree with Doc von Schmeltwick's point that what crossover material warrants coverage on Super Mario Wiki is inherently unclear for any visitor, Smash Wiki truly has an {{iw|smashwiki|Poké Ball|excellent Poké Ball article}} and full coverage for the hazards as well. Perhaps our articles could better be understood as harbors that can direct readers to those SmashWiki pages and simply touch upon them briefly in our main game articles. (I do wish Smash Wiki included little visual previews for what the Pokémon look like on their article, but that is someone those users can integrate if they would like.) I agree we do not need full lists on Poké Ball Pokémon, non-''Mario'' Assist Trophies, stages, etc.
:However, I do appreciate that the the crossover material of ''Smash Bros.'' is a bit more mechanically intimate than something like ''NES Remix'' or ''Nintendo Land'': the Pokémon released from Poké Balls can physically attack Mario, Luigi, and the other ''Mario'' characters in the games, and that detail is not diluted simply because they can also do this to Marth or Sephiroth as well. So I do understand why other users would want to hang onto this material.
:Additionally, I disagree with Doc on principal that we should "never delete anything ever." There are no sacred assets uploaded to the wiki, and it is a shared space. It should be okay and uncontroversial to delete unused files. But I am also a bit wary of supporting proposals that hamstring what other users can or cannot write about. I do not personally know to what degree ''Smash Bros.'' is within our scope of coverage. But if large swaths of the userbase ''want'' to cover that stuff, I do not think that is such a bad thing. To be clear, the inverse is true as well. If most folks wanted all of this stuff removed, I would think that is fine. Smash Wiki exists, and it is an active community. I'm just not sure it's my place to put my thumb on the scale. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:32, August 24, 2024 (EDT)
::I don't mind you having reservations. The "large swaths" is about half the community who wants to keep ''Smash Bros.'' coverage. The non-''Super Mario'' challenges being removed from the pages was quite a big one to pass. Some users wanting to hold on to the SSB content can be understandable, though if it's because they have issues with other wikis, I think it will be better if members of both communities discuss the matter. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 22:56, August 24, 2024 (EDT)

== Concern ==

On the comments of my Poke Ball proposal, there's a user who said "Anyone who prefers this method '''should go ahead and oppose this proposal''' so that this method can be proposed instead." Said user admits to vehemently opposing the proposal, so does this count as soliciting votes and therefore a courtesy violation? Users are free to vote as they please on proposals, but this genuinely hurt my feelings because it's explicitly telling others to oppose the proposal using what I think is a sly and cleverly crafted argument. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 03:51, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
:I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt. I do not know where this type of behavior intersects with our policies, but I agree the "spirit" of it is not in the right place. I will ask more experienced staff what they think in the morning.
:In my experience, the user you are referring to genuinely means well, but can be quite obstinate. She is sometimes so invested in a position that she does not critically consider how others may think or feel. But it's also worth considering how much personal investment she has put into some of the material that is being cut back in proposals like this, and while this does not excuse it, I think it at least contextualizes some of her abrasiveness. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 04:37, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
::Thank you. I wanted to be courteous by not giving the user name, since the point is not to instigate drama, but because it was a covert attempt at derailing my proposal, after this much progress had been made on it. And I'm still hurt by it. I understand the user wants to cover, though I feel that there's no viable solution since if someone wanted to cover ''Smash Bros.'' it would be best to do in a place where they are not restricted to just game pages. Only the N64 ''Smash Bros.'' page has elaborate descriptions and listings of Pokemon, so she hasn't made significant progress on the proposal. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 04:55, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::Hi, again. I have touched base with other staff, and while we agree that this does not constitute vote solicitation as outlined in our policies. Soliciting would entail reaching out to other users and telling them how to vote. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:58, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
::::It still felt unethical. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:01, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Hi, sorry I've been abrasive recently, I'm a bit overwhelmed right now and I took enough issue with the proposed changes it almost felt like a personal attack, which led to me reacting accordingly. I know that it wasn't actually directed against me, so I apologize for lashing out in it. As for the statement on my proposed version, I thought about whether it would violate solicitation guidelines before I added that, and it didn't feel any more like solicitation than trying to persuade people to vote in favor of it in the proposal header. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:25, August 27, 2024 (EDT)

== Did my proposal pass? ==

I saw an attempt to extend it, but Rule 9 says a majority of the total number of voters for a proposal with more than two voting options have to vote in one of the options for it to qualify (rather than spread throughout). And a three-vote margin is for two-option proposals with at least ten votes on one side. See my edit summary. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 20:12, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
	
:It started as a two-option proposal, and I'm unsure if it counts if all but two options are empty anyway; it might as well be a two-option one in that case and be treated as such. Now I'll admit, the rules on these are convoluted and inconsistent, so I don't know, but that's how it looked to me. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:18, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
::It did, but it ended as a proposal with four options (and I was the sole vote in the second and third options, as secondary and third, respectively, but was in the thin majority support). I don't see anything in the rules that say that a proposal has to be started as two-option or two-or-more-options proposal to affect quorum. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 20:20, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
:::I think "adding more options later that no one's gonna vote for to dodge the margin rule" is a bit disingenuous, personally. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:22, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
::::That's not what happened. I added a few more options based on user feedback (including the artworks one for Nintendo101 to consider, but he didn't end up voting for that option), though nobody selected either of those two options. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 20:25, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
:::::{{@|Super Mario RPG}} your proposal must be extended by another week, per rule 9, which states, in full:
:::::<blockquote>Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.</blockquote>
:::::{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} please do not make bad-faith assumptions into why a fellow user makes the choices they do. It is not kind. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:37, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Yeah, I got snippy because I was edit conflicted, sorry again - honestly, though, it is a potential issue that may need ironed out before it's ''actually'' abused. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:42, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
::::::So isn't that a pass for the proposal then, since 9 out of 17 users voted for one option? Or are you counting SMPRG's other votes as separate voters so that in becomes 9 out of 19? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 07:42, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::{{@|SmokedChili}} I think it is, since vote'''r'''s refers to how many people are voting, rather than the total number of votes altogether. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 09:11, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::It's a pass. The rule makes reference to "voters", not "votes". More than half of the total number of voters in the proposal voted in full support of it. (And yes, I'm aware of how absurd the idea of half a person voting is, but math is math: 9 > 8.5 😛) {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:58, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::{{@|Super Mario RPG}} yes, your proposal had passed. I overlooked the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/45#Change rule 9 to centre on voters rather than votes|semantics]] of rule 9. Sorry about that! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 10:04, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::It's okay. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 10:09, August 29, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::Very well. Expect my proposal at the end of September. Please do not make further proposals that relate to what mine will cover but don't "technically" have to do with your previous one, as that would take advantage of the time buffer that I need to abide by and force me to push it back even further. Thank you. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:29, August 29, 2024 (EDT)

== In regards to omnibus Smash proposal ==

People keep trying to make piecemeal Smash proposals despite the fact that I have this proposal upcoming (and you explicitly requesting people not continue doing so), which would force mine back another four weeks each time since mine covers everything. What am I to do? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:15, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
:Accept that this is a community-run wiki and not your own. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 19:20, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
::I didn't ask you. I asked the person who explicitly requested people stop doing exactly what I'm talking about. (also 🍲🫖) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:30, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
:::Yes, and this concerns a proposal that I did that passed. This wiki's a democracy, so naturally users would be expressing that through the form of proposals. I had no plans to create any further ''Super Smash Bros.'' proposals, but chances are that I'll be supporting more that make the articles more ''Super Mario''-focused. I think Nintendo101 advised and recommended I cancel my proposal, but never wanted to force it. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 19:33, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
::::The ''kind'' thing to do would be to allow the omnibus proposal to be made rather than pushing it back and outright taunting the fact that it's being delayed from that. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:39, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
:::::This seems like an issue where you two need to work something out together. I recommend both of you try to hold off the debate in this talk page right now until Nintendo101 can formulate some advice. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:46, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

:::::Howdy! Super Mario RPG is correct, and I am not going to tell another user what they can make proposals on. But Doc, if you are truly invested in making a broad-reaching ''Smash Bros.'' proposal, I would let {{User|Mushzoom}} know in the comments of their proposal or their talk page, explaining the benefits of doing one large proposal, and asking if they would like to help out with it.

:::::With that being said, the outcomes Doc laid out in the Poké Ball proposal comments seemed a lot more granular in scope than I envisioned. In democracies, decisions made by the public involve few, concise, and easily understandable options that clearly set the trajectory for future actions. So rather than draft a proposal that litigates "let's move list article A into game article X, and let's subdivide article Q into game articles X, Y, and Z," etc., I would make a proposal that determines if the community at large wants non-''Mario'' ''Smash Bros.'' material covered on the wiki, and if "yes", how much? Options can range from full coverage to no coverage, with several other options in between. I think that would more meaningfully get to the heart of this curatorial divide in the userbase. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:54, August 30, 2024 (EDT)
::::::As it was, I got a lot of support for what I laid out considering the short amount of time it was in the proposal comments. Since it's mostly based around rearranging what's already there to match how other game pages handle the same basic types of subjects, it should be fine. But I appreciate the input. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:48, August 30, 2024 (EDT)

I just had a brilliant idea: Perhaps StrategyWiki would like the Smash Bros. tables. At least there, the scope is defined more clearly as strategy guides for video games in general. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:50, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:I can see the appeal of doing that, but I personally think Smash Wiki does an excellent job of covering that material themselves, and that is generally where people interested in the ''Smash Bros.'' series are inclined to go. And I at least do not know anyone at StrategyWiki, so I do not know if that community would be receptive to such additions.
:{{@|Super Mario RPG}}, this is tangential and I do not know if you are aware, but I have been drafting a "crossover article" concept using ''The Legend of Zelda'' as a base, highlighting where it intersects with ''Super Mario''. I think it has the potential to be a more serviceable consolidation of information otherwise scattered across the wiki. It's still in an early stage, and there are part so it that I am unsure need to be kept, but you are welcomed to provide feedback on it or contribute to it. It can be found [[User:Nintendo101/community garden|right here]]. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:03, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
::Yeah I saw that. I think it's interesting and well suited for this wiki because it talks about ''Super Mario'' involvement directly, rather than neutral involvement between all franchises represented in ''Smash Bros.'' [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 19:07, August 31, 2024 (EDT)
:::Thank you. Do you have any advice, recommendations, or revisions you'd recommend? I have not made a wholly original article like this in awhile, and I do not have much of a base for structural reference. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:16, August 31, 2024 (EDT)

== Re:Zelda ==

I think that is an ''excellent'' manner of covering related series; I was actually considering doing something similar for ''Sonic'' to catalogue all the potshots Nintendo and Sega took at each other's mascots back in the day. (And just by the way, I'd be honored if you joined Triforce Wiki, since you said you were on Zelda Wiki before they got bogged down with... questionable decisions.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:55, September 2, 2024 (EDT)
:I appreciate the kind words and the invitation, but I think I will remain focused on ''Super Mario'' for the time being.
:If I was to seriously engage with ''Zelda'' coverage again, I would likely do it through Zelda Wiki because despite some systemic choices, it remains the ''Zelda'' wiki I am most familiar with. Their acquisition by a for-profit company made engagement intolerable in a way systemic editing choices weren't (like the integration of tabs in the infoboxes, which I still don't care for), but they have reclaimed their independence and that was greatly welcomed. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:01, September 2, 2024 (EDT)
::OK. I'd consider ZeldaWiki's main issue to be wholehearted embracing of "Brazilian aardvark"-style roundabout-citing (thanks to Dark Horse) and whatever's going on [https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Snapper here] and [https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Hand here], and the people currently in charge don't seem to have any issue with either situation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:48, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
:::I completely agree with you that that was a major curatorial mistake on their part, but there are {{iw|zeldawiki|Zelda Wiki:Proposals|avenues to change that}} on Zelda Wiki, just like Super Mario Wiki. If I ever got around to wanting to seriously engage with Zelda material, I would certainly push for that. Sometimes it takes a fresh voice for a good idea to be realized by a community. But we'll see. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:36, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

== "please be courteous to your fellow users." ==

Nothing I said was discourteous. Please stop framing any and all criticism of wiki activity as a personal attack, it's sanctimonious and annoying. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:03, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
:Howdy. I agree, it would be disingenuous to frame criticisms of the wiki as personal attacks, and it is not something I practice. Substantive critique is how things improve. However, regardless of the intent, stating "''15 people voted for this nonsense'', one even calling it a "no-brainer"" is not only a criticism of the wiki or a proposal. It is a criticism of people and their ideas, and a condescending one at that. It does not bring us towards substantive debate or outcomes for the site, and I do not hold qualms for discouraging that behavior when I see it (or in this case, when other users bring it up to staff themselves), especially for users who contribute a lot to the site. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:06, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
::But... it's what happened, no? A lot of people eagerly cast their votes in support of a ''very'' questionable decision that was almost immediately criticized when enacted. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:23, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
:::It seems the folks critical about the outcome of the proposal were the same exact users who voted to oppose it, so I do not really see the point in your statement. But that also does not matter because folks can always criticize such things on Super Mario Wiki. The issue comes from insinuating that other users are thoughtless or stupid, which is what some have expressed in response to your earlier comment. To be honest with you, it is not uncommon for your comments in proposals and talk pages to go beyond substantively criticizing the site or ideas, to being abrasive and obstinate towards other users and their perspectives. This has sometimes made folks feel discouraged from engaging in discussions with you. I tell you this because you are an excellent contributor and mature enough to hear that, and probably do not want to come across that way. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:21, September 6, 2024 (EDT)

== Thoughts on this Koopa page redesign? ==

[[User:Doc_von_Schmeltwick/Projects/Koopas|I've been working on a thing]], loosely inspired by how wikipedia handles taxon articles, though adapted to fit a "video game creatures" context. I already moved the top portion to the main article because I got favorable feedback on it. What do you think? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:39, September 10, 2024 (EDT)
:You know it's funny - I mentioned to LeftyGreenMario the other day that the way Wikipedia supports multiple taxa in the infoboxes for some clades looked appealing and may work for a few of our pages. I can give finer points later this week, but from my cursory glance, it looks nice :) - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:44, September 10, 2024 (EDT)

== SSB items wikitable ==

Would you be okay that my revision of [[List of Super Smash Bros. series items]] stays intact? It got reverted, citing no discussion, but I did the edit so I could bring it up with others, such as you. I remember there was discussion over these new wikitables on several games of the ''Super Mario'' franchise, and even a proposal for the ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'' one, so it seems unfair that it was originally expected the ''Mario Kart Wii'' tables intact but not mine, which I worked for hours on. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:00, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
:Hi. I understand how you feel, and it can sometimes be difficult to gauge what would be a controversial change and what would not be, but if one is introducing a revision that changes the entirety of a large article, it does not hurt to bring it up in a talk page first. It does not always mean there are problems with the revision, just that the scale of it on principal warrants discussion. It is a shared space.
:I hope you don't feel discouraged. A while ago, I moved the Purple Coin Ball article to [[Star Ball]] because I viewed it as an innocuous revision, but it was reversed by staff and I was encouraged to bring it up on the former's talk page first. [[Talk:Purple Coin Ball|I ultimately did]], where it received support and eventual integration. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:14, September 13, 2024 (EDT)
::I'm okay now, especially since Doc, to my surprise, liked where I was headed with the wikitable idea, so I moved discussion to the corresponding talk page to get further consensus from other editors. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:22, September 13, 2024 (EDT)

== Once and only once ==

I'm aware that the fact I'm on last warnings may not help my case, but I personally felt patronized and gaslit when I was accused of making "sweeping changes" for something applying only to four pages based on what's expressly written in the title of [[MarioWiki:Once and only once]]. On another note, I don't try to revert more than twice. It's like "I make a point from this, someone does a counterpoint, I do a counterpoint, followed by a possible second counterpoint." [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:36, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:I am sorry, I was spending time with my family. What incident(s) are you referring to? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:49, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
::Past warnings that don't apply to this circumstance. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:51, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::I understand that, sorry if that was unclear. I mean what is the current circumstance you are referring to? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:54, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
::::I'm referring to the "sweeping changes" on the DKC remake pages (see the edit history of the DKC GBC page). The DKC remake pages with duplicate information concerns only four pages, and I trimmed the bosses section to only the bosses to reflect that they are no different besides graphics, like all other assets in remakes. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 14:00, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::::I agree it can sometimes be unclear what constitutes as an innocuous change vs. a "sweeping change," and I have experienced that first hand such as [[Talk:Purple Coin Ball|here]] and [[Talk:Illusion|here]]. But generally, rather than see how many pages are directly impacted by one's changes, consider if it is covering something sensitive like a unique release of or subjects from a prominent game (which ''Donkey Kong Country'' definitely would be considered to be).
:::::Can you provide examples of places where you have felt patronized or gaslit? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:30, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Perhaps we can leave it be. At least the edit I made on DKC GBC that removed the redundant tables from the bosses section hadn't been removed. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 14:32, September 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::I haven't removed it because I'm waiting to see where this conversation goes. I stand by my statement that you should get a proposal, or at the very least get more consensus than just yourself. (The only other person in [[Talk:Donkey Kong Country (Game Boy Color)|that conversation]] was me, and I was opposing it). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:46, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

{{@|Super Mario RPG}} it seems that Doc and you had a [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Donkey_Kong_Country_(Game_Boy_Color)&oldid=4371964 back and forth exchange] where she respectfully asked you to raise a proposal before making cuts to the ''Donkey Kong Country'' article, and you [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Donkey_Kong_Country_(Game_Boy_Color)&oldid=4371971 did it anyways] just two minutes after her last reply. And that you were the one to even [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Donkey_Kong_Country_(Game_Boy_Color)&oldid=4371936 include the "once and only once" rule in the rewrite template] at the top the page. Would you agree that is correct? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:50, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

== In regards to Smash and crossovers ==

I saw your Zelda crossover page and Doc's Smash proposal (which I didn't know about until it was mentioned in my music proposal), and I was wondering...what are your plans for your crossover idea? I feel like crossover franchise pages would make some of the lists Doc is proposing to keep unnecessary. [[User:Mushzoom|Mushzoom]] ([[User talk:Mushzoom|talk]]) 23:12, September 21, 2024 (EDT)

:Howdy! For clarity, I have not coordinated anything with Doc, and while I have shared my ''Zelda'' draft with her, I don't think I explicitly clarified what I would want it to be used for. Because while I am not concerning myself with what material should be in our main game articles on ''Smash Bros.'', this crossover article concept would impact ''Smash Bros.'' list articles. I generally do not think we cover crossover material in a satisfactory way, with a lot of it distributed across the wiki in pieces or with emphasis put in the wrong places. I am still working on my ''Zelda'' article, and I am still drafting a proposal to neatly encapsulate what I would like these articles to do, but my overall intentions with a crossover franchise/series article is to:
#Move all relevant information currently listed on [[List of references in Nintendo video games]] to a dedicated article alongside information representing the inverse. For my example, it would be everything listed under ''The Legend of Zelda'' alongside references to ''Zelda'' in the ''Mario'' franchise. The latter is well documented and covered [[Super Mario Galaxy#References to other games|here and there]] on the wiki, but not in one convenient place.
#Funnel relevant redirects and disambiguation pages relevant to the franchise to this article. For example, [[Octorok]] and [[The Legend of Zelda]] would bring users to this page instead of their current destinations.
#Move information on relevant ''Super Smash Bros.'' fighter list articles to this one, with less emphasize on granular ''Smash Bros.'' details (i.e. special moves, Classic Mode routes, etc.) and more general information emphasizing how the franchise of interest is covered in individual titles (similar to {{iw|smashwiki|Mario (universe)|Smash Wiki's universe articles}}, but less detailed) and how it intersects with ''Mario'' content in specific games. As an example, the entries for Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf on [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Melee]] would instead direct readers to this ''Zelda'' crossover article. Searching up "Princess Zelda" or "Ganondorf" will bring you to this article instead. This may be controversial for some because it would involve cutting specific details that are better covered on Smash Wiki, but I personally think it would be better than using the current fighter list articles, which are cumbersome to read and [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.#Appearances in other Super Mario-related media|confusingly include details not related to ''Smash Bros.'' at all]]. I also think it would be a better compromise between those who want full coverage of ''Smash'' content and those who want none of it. I hope it is clear from the draft I have that many of the characters and enemies in ''Smash Bros.'' have legitimately crossed-over and interacted with ''Mario'' in other contexts, and I do think that is interesting information worth highlighting considering ''Mario'' is Nintendo's tentpole franchise.
#Create a structural reference for other users to make their own crossover articles, like ones for ''Kirby'', ''Animal Crossing'', or even smaller ones like the Light Gun Series or ''Ice Climber''. We may find ourselves in a position where we can retire those fighter list articles altogether.

:I know we have other ''Smash Bros.'' list articles for things like bosses, Assist Trophies, Smash Run enemies, trophies, spirits, etc. and, at the moment, I do not intend on including them in my proposal. I do not want to make an overly complicated proposal or interfere with whatever Doc has been drafting. However, I do think it would ultimately be ideal for crossover articles like this to also be where readers are directed if they search up "Deku Nut" or "Ghirahim." I do not think Doc has critically considered just how large the ''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]'' article (or even ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]'') would become if we sought to cover all of its content in earnest, or whether it is really necessary with Smash Wiki next door.

:How does that all sound? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:23, September 22, 2024 (EDT)

::That all sounds great! [[User:Mushzoom|Mushzoom]] ([[User talk:Mushzoom|talk]]) 23:19, September 25, 2024 (EDT)

== TTYDNS Tattle Log ==

That is how they are stored and displayed in-game, and it actually does look better that way on the pages for the Tattle Log and the game's gallery (ie, what those images should be illustrating anyway). Ideally, the bestiary boxes will use assembled sprites like they do for other games, or at least screenshots - especially given the resulting crop is also smaller than the TTYD-original image. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:09, October 3, 2024 (EDT)
:Doc, I am not the only person who thought this display looked poor, and given no proposal was raised that mandates we must retain the empty space around an uploaded asset, something that would be a deviation from the majority of assets uploaded to the wiki and something not reflected in the other the images used for other statistic templates, I honestly do not old any qualms on having done narrowed the content of the Goomba file to just the Goomba.
:I know you have a reverence for how assets are spatially stored in the games they come from. I think most people on the wiki do, including myself. But whether that extends to the empty space around them is another thing. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:42, October 3, 2024 (EDT)
::The main reason I kept the empty space was because I was hoping that maybe, even just for the bestiary, we could layer the sprites to show the blue background like how the Tattle Log entries appear in-game. Keeping the empty space centers them properly for that. I don't have a strong opinion on keeping data-res, but I'm leaning against it since not every game can be easily ripped or have specific data parameters to follow. It'd also be very hard to enforce. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 23:34, October 3, 2024 (EDT)

== The Spriters Resource ==

Generally speaking, I'd consider it more helpful to link to the exact sheet or model it is sourced from rather than just the main page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:20, October 5, 2024 (EDT)
:Sorry about that. I feel most comfortable doing it this way.
:It is a balance between directing users to a helpful resource and crediting the person who uploaded the sprite or model, versus elevating an instance of a specific sprite or model being uploaded that an IP-holder may take issue with in the future for reasons I am not positioned to speculate about. It is for similar reasons I do not link to literature hosted on the Internet Archives.
:I trust those more familiar with these sites would know where to go. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:28, October 5, 2024 (EDT)

== Boss table ==

Honestly it makes the most sense to put the shared information in its own section above rather than repeat it multiple times. And if I were documenting boss battles, I'd have to have but all 11 Bowser Jr. encounters separately since they all have different properties. XD But anyways, as for complete listings, nowhere else on the wiki as far as I am aware actually lists every level each appears in, and it's handy to have that. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:20, October 17, 2024 (EDT)
:I can see the appeal. In my prior iterations of the enemy table for ''Super Mario Galaxy'', I listed each level that each enemy appeared in. However, discourse with other users and my evolved way of thinking made it clear that they way these lists vertically stretch the tables looks unattractive, and detracts from an otherwise appealing display and the information imparted. I tentatively leave individual levels listed for the bosses in the 3D games because they usually only occur in a handful of them. However, for all of the 2D ones, I have taken to only listing the first and last levels. But maybe I'm thinking about this too rigidly.
:Could this level information not be included in the main [[Bowser Jr.]] article? I agree it is good and interesting information to impart. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:31, October 17, 2024 (EDT)
::One more thing - for shared information, I recommend integrating it above the table as normal paragraphs, like I did in the [[Super Mario Odyssey#Bosses|boss section for ''Super Mario Odyssey'']]. Not all text needs to be directly inside the table. If it is just clarified in the body text that there are tower bosses and castle bosses, and that there are mechanical differences between them, readers will understand the division in the table itself. Does that sound agreeable? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:38, October 17, 2024 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but given Bowser Jr.'s situation, it made sense to list it separately from those cells yet still in the table section. And IDK, I'd save the Bowser Jr. page for listing more in-depth descriptions of each fight's arena and other properties, akin to what the Boom Boom and Reznor pages do. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:59, October 17, 2024 (EDT)

==Re:Shark==
Heya. Belated congrats on being a patroller, BTW.

I get it, but there are several reasons I'd want to tone it down. Yes, the wiki took Dark Horse to task (when others hardly would, but I digress). But as you can gather with Nipper Dandelion and Ghost (which was my bad), Dark Horse was not the only offender. It's, for better or worse, a symptom of the interconnected world we live in now. Good fans have a collective responsibility, yes. However, what do we do when it's not just a one-off? Mario Portal has given us the translations that we should have had in the book to begin with, and while we got many of the corrections difficult to get in print, some of that material has been corroborated. In the shark's case, they correctly identified that the Nintendo Power quote was at the beginning of a sentence, so it's uncapitalized like "ant" (something that the book did not pick up on, last I checked). These examples are, in a roundabout way, technically right from the original source, and they're also not the only time subjects with unique names in one language have had generic ones in another. As such, I don't think they need calling-out like getting outright fan-names in there. (Also remember that the original ''Super Mario Land'' localization was unusually direct, so I personally found the ''Super Mario Land 2'' section in line with that to be relatively inoffensive, all things considered, but that's neither here nor there.) There's also a human element to this as well. When this happened, most of the ire was directed at one person. A few years later, that person tried to correct the record and explain that he only worked on pages 238-255 - and then I, party-pooper that I am, um-ackchyually'd that some of the ''release dates'' in those pages were affected (something that I've come to realize is what companies like Nintendo do because absolutely no one catalogued retro release dates seriously, and that info might very well have been supplied by them directly). I don't know if I believe that person or not when he only took credit for the-then underexamined part of the book, but I don't believe he meant damage, and I believe the ire may have been misdirected in retrospect. He became bitter about his involvement in the book's production. He's moved on, what's done is done, and I don't want us to reopen old wounds if we can help it. That will happen if we bring it up outside of where the information has been agreed to be relegated to. Imagine readers just minding their own business, having a merry time just looking up info on an old game, and then they find this right in the middle of the screen, where it's very hard to miss. It kind of makes us sound a little bit like we all still have a chip on our shoulder, don't you think? I think our strife with them is over. We can only maintain vigilance in case it ever happens again. There are other black ponies out there, and it's not always even a publisher like Dark Horse. I'm keenly aware. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:33, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
:Hi again, and thank you for the congratulations.
:For context, while I do not know if this is how it was read by others, I felt what I wrote was neutral and uncharged. I did not identify any translators involved with the Dark Horse books, just that the text at large has known incongruencies with general ''Mario'' media that derived from the adoption of names from Super Mario Wiki, especially for ''Super Mario Land 2''. This is the only thing I sought to do in my write-up.
:My personal view is that the fault lies with Nintendo of America and Dark Horse for not providing the book's editors and translators with names. They absolutely had the ability to do that if they wanted to. Editors and translators for works like these have a difficult and often underappreciated job, and I suspect they work under strict deadlines. They should not be subject to any ire. I also do not think there is anything wrong with these folks, or even Nintendo Treehouse themselves, consulting the site for names they may not have. I actually think it is passively a little complimentary that our site is viewed as such a reliable resource.
:However, I think mentioning the encyclopedia, Super Mario Wiki, and the Mario Portal is part of understanding this shark enemy's unique localization history in North America, and I do not think that is trivial or should be omitted. Perhaps there is a way for it be to rewritten in a way that is even more neutral? Let me know what you think.
:(As an aside, I personally would not put ''Super Mario Land'' in the same boat as ''Super Mario Land 2'', because that game had a complete bestiary in its instruction booklet and 3DS Virtual Console release. Unlike nearly every other mainline game, ''Super Mario Land 2'' has never had a full proper localization in English, or at least not one that has remained accessible. That is more important than the fact that some enemies in SML and SML2 have incidentally come around to having English names that are romanizations of their Japanese ones. For the SML enemies, this was unequivocally deliberate. I do not think that is tenable for most of the SML2 ones.) - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:13, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
::"''I did not identify any translators involved with the Dark Horse books,''" I know you didn't, but the link does, and it had real-world effects. That's why I think it's a better idea to limit the spread, plus the English citations have already been banned per proposal outside of <nowiki>{{encyclopedia}}</nowiki> articles. I do think [[MarioWiki:once and only once|once and only once]] applies here - there's no need to repeat information that was kept in one space for a long time. But if you wanted to rewrite it, there was a question if the word [[Talk:Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#"Controversy"|"controversy"]] was too strong, and it has since been omitted from the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' article. That's a start. I'm curious, though: why, of all things, shark? Think about it. It's not a fan-name, nor was it outdated at the time of release. If there was no ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'', what affect would there be on that particular article? Zero. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:28, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
:::The Nintendo Life citation was simply because we have policies about citing information and claims not directly in the games, which this is. Perhaps it was commented on elsewhere in a way that does not reference the translator specifically.
:::"Shark" was simply because that was the article I chose to work on after making revisions to the Sushi article. I would make a similar write-up for most of the enemies from ''Super Mario Land 2'' (i.e. [[ant]], [[collector]], [[sewer rat]], etc.) because they similarly have complex localization histories that have lead to the adoption of non-discrete names. Regardless of our policies, it does not seem "shark" is employed in the cited material with discrete intent, something I have come to recognize from the years I have spent on a [https://www.inaturalist.org/home different site], and consequently is not exercised as a "true" name in the same vein as "Piranha Plant" or "Koopa." This is unusual for an enemy in a mainline ''Super Mario'' game and is just inherently something I know I would want to know about as a visitor to the enemy's article. If there was no encyclopedia or Mario Portal, I would still not recognize this as a discrete "true" name and it would still be something I would want to touch upon in its article. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:03, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
::::Regarding Portal - part of this is because there just doesn't seem to be any prospect of reusing most ''Land 2'' elements anytime soon, so there's not much to gain from updating terms if they know it originated from them to begin with. Take Bomber Bill and Mini Goomba - Bull's-Eye Bomber Bill and Cat Bomber Bill were updated (having just been in ''Super Mario Maker 2''), but Pile-driver Micro-Goomba remains as opposed to Pile-driver Mini Goomba, which probably means there's nothing in the pipeline for it. They also probably want to update only what was deemed to be the essential corrections so as not to be unrecognizable. The fact that corrections were made at all is a sign that they were paying attention. As for localization history... Just a thought: If "Mario Portal" is an article, maybe there can be a section on where the English version borrows from and improves upon ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''? Though since much of it is already noted, not too sure. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:05, October 23, 2024 (EDT)
:::::You and I can reasonably deduce that is why Mario Portal utilizes these types of names. I do not think that is immediately apparent to someone visiting the site who may want to understand that better, and I do not think they should have to dig through talk pages to learn why. It is not a value judgement on Mario Portal or the encyclopedia - it is the desire of a reader to understand why "x" is the way it is.
:::::But anyways, while I do still think localization history is the type of information worth including in the articles for subjects like enemies, bosses, etc., I think I understand what you were getting at and revised it accordingly. [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Shark&oldid=4407803 How does it look]? With new eyes, I think the previous version did come off as more judgmental than was intended.
:::::I don’t think that’s a bad idea for the eventual Mario Portal article. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:39, October 23, 2024 (EDT)
::::::It fits substantially better than before, thanks for taking in the feedback. Just some nitpicks from a nitpicker: 1) The years are already in the references for those who'd like to, well, refer to them. The main text already states "subsequently", so readers would make the inference that it happened some time later. "Mario Portal circa 2022" could give the wrong impression that it changed at a later date (which happened with No.48 and Bunbun so far). I'd personally keep the years within the references. Same with the game's release year, which is apparent in the adjacent infobox. We can just say, "''Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins'' when it originally released," 2) Still, reference #3... As I've said, proposals have [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|banned]] citing the English ''Encyclopedia''. I've only had it [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/60#Partially unban citing the English version of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia as official names for subjects|unbanned]] for the context of <nowiki>{{encyclopedia}}</nowiki> as I saw the use in what remained, so strictly speaking, it might require a new proposal altogether to relax it some more. I would just, in the meantime, condense it to "the enemy's name in the English {{fake link|Mario Portal}}" until that bit is sorted out. If the Mario Portal article is made first, as long as the section is in list format like in the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' article, it shouldn't require citations, so I don't think detailing the relation between ''Encyclopedia'' and Portal in that space would need a proposal. And 3) About Nipper Dandelion... Dark Horse was a very unique situation and a game-changer, but Nipper Dandelion was another [[Talk:Nipper Dandelion|discussion]]. The reason that's in trivia, I surmise, is because while it's fishy, we don't know the details for sure and it's harder to obtain them. It could've been a different site, or it could've been coincidental. A lot of us don't want to get to a point where we tilt at windmills, y'know? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 04:50, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

== Proposal ==

I didn't mean to upset you. I'm okay with opposition, since proposals are about whether one supports or opposes an idea. However, I could tell you were particularly upset, so I wanted to apologize, as upsetting was not my intention at all. I've begun to see the points others have made, so I canceled and archived the proposal. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:28, October 23, 2024 (EDT)
:I was not personally offended or anything like that, though I appreciate your change in perspective. I understand wanting to foster an inclusive and accepting community, but forbidding all criticism is not the best way to do that, in my view.
:You may appreciate knowing that the enemy tables I developed for the mainline games with eviemaybe, Sparks, Mario, and Ray Trace was partially inspired by the ones on {{iw|wikirby|Kirby Super Star#Standard Enemies|WiKirby's article for ''Kirby Super Star''}}. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:35, October 23, 2024 (EDT)
::I do really like the articles and work that you do, and it's cool to know you had been inspired by WiKirby. I just like experimenting with new and interesting ideas, like from our affiliates, and it's something I think that fosters unity. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:38, October 23, 2024 (EDT)
:::I feel the same way! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:40, October 23, 2024 (EDT)

==Clampy==
While the clam may have never been called that in-game, it was called that in the strategy guide and as such, Mario Portal is a retroactive name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 11:02, October 24, 2024 (EDT)
:The name "Clampy" did not come from Mario Portal - it came from [[:File:NSMBWiiTC-34-Front.png|''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' in 2009]], which was published only two years after the enemy's debut in ''Super Mario Galaxy''. If you look at the page's history, you will see that this enemy has accurately been called "Clampy" before Mario Portal was ever a thing.
:Almost none of the enemies introduced in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' (including [[Flipbug]], [[Rocto]], etc.) had known English names when the game was published in 2007 and the author of the Prima game guide simply used generic descriptors for the ones he did not have the names for. Clampy just happens to be one of the enemies in that boat. Many enemies are in a similar situation in the franchise's history, and it is not invalid to apply those names in retrospect when they are the only names available. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:21, October 24, 2024 (EDT)

== Redirect deletions ==

You have been reverted the deletion of redirects. I added a deletion as it is unnecessary since there is no address linked to this gallery. This is an unnecessary redirect after merging. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 00:23, October 25, 2024 (EDT)
:I only did that for Princess Daisy because those subdivided galleries were on the wiki for almost a near, and I would not be surprised if other websites and people off of the site have linked to them at this point, especially with how important Daisy is to some fans. In maintaining those redirects, those links would still work for them. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:25, October 25, 2024 (EDT)
::After checked by [[Special:WhatLinksHere|What links here]], it said "No pages link to (subdivided gallery)". For this reason, I have submitted a deletion request. "History of Princess Daisy" article was also deleted as it was merged into the main page. If you are not going to delete the redirects, please restore "History of Princess Daisy" and redirect it. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 00:34, October 25, 2024 (EDT)
::"What links here" only encompasses articles on Super Mario Wiki. I do not know if it was clear from my previous comment, but I am hanging onto the gallery redirects as a courtesy for people off of the site. You would not be able to see those on "what links here." - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:52, October 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::I know about Discord and other sites. I'll have to think about that. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 00:54, October 25, 2024 (EDT)

== ''Super Mario Odyssey'' ==

Can you confirm that ''Super Mario Odyssey'' has a Game Over screen? [https://youtu.be/UxWHerzpRA4?si=3Jr8qThdm-MGA8Gt This video]  contradicts that. [[User:Dwhitney|Dwhitney]] ([[User talk:Dwhitney|talk]]) 10:42, October 25, 2024 (EDT)
:I could not locate a video showcasing what I recalled, so it seems I misremembered. You are welcomed to revise what I had wrote. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:32, October 25, 2024 (EDT)

== Split Toad ==

Is it okay that I split the Toad article (per [[MarioWiki:Article size]])? It's become annoying long, and I think it needs to be summarized before it can be considered to be readded. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:52, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
:I mean, I am not the arbiter on that. My personal preference would be to avoid splits unless absolutely necessary, but that is just my opinion.
:For Toad, it seems like [[History of Toad]] has already been split off. How would you divide it further? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:55, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
::The possible appearances section already has a rewrite tag, so some of that may have to go to the Toad (species) page. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 12:56, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::I see. So this is for the History of Toad article? Rather than ask me for permission, I would raise this on the article's talk page, making sure to include <code><nowiki>{{talk}}</nowiki></code> at the top. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:04, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
::::I guess I asked because only like two or three actions could undo the history merge, instead of what one would define as changes being made to several articles at once. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:01, October 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Sorry, I didn't realize the History of Toad article was split before you asked what my opinion was.
:::::Based on the size of the other history sections for the other major characters, I think it was perfectly fine to split History of Toad from the Toad article. If another user gives you a hard time for it, you can direct them to me.
:::::However, generally, I advise bringing up big changes to articles impacting major characters like Toad in the talk page before executing a change. It mitigates the chances of folks feeling out of the loop, and it could direct one to perspectives they may not have thought of on their own. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:45, October 27, 2024 (EDT)

== Flower (Spin Throw) should have a different identifier. ==

Hi. Just a small thing. The flowers that would be covered under the theoretical "flower (Spin Throw)" aren't really Spin Throw exclusive. There are at least two set ups in the game which have flowers that aren't in a circle and presumably are meant to be dealt with using the normal Cap Throw: One in the Cap Kingdom for a Heart involving four flowers as the points of a trapezoid, and the other in a cave in the Lost Kingdom for a Power Moon involving four straight lines of flowers. I suggest using a different identifier. Given the puzzle at hand, might I suggest "flower (simultaneous bloom)"? [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 20:31, November 2, 2024 (EDT)
:My preference would be to use "flower (Cap Throw)" since a diversity of throws can be used. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:37, November 2, 2024 (EDT)
::For clarity, I know some of these flowers are arranged in ways that would make the Spin Throw unserviceable and technically they can bloom if struck by Cappy in any fashion, but most of them are laid out to support the Spin Throw and they are the mechanical and conceptual successors to the [[stone circle]]s from ''Super Mario Galaxy'', so I thought it was serviceable enough. I prioritized supporting a clear and simple modifier to distinguish them from [[Flower (environmental object)]] over holistic accuracy. Elaboration and clarification of how it works can be done in the body text itself. But either way, I would still recommend "Cap Throw" over "simultaneous bloom." - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:46, November 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::"simultenous bloom" is clunky, yeah. (To make the point, I spelt it wrong. I can't spell it on demand without autocorrect.) My hesitancy is that technically Cappy can fly through the other flowers too. (Probably a good time to say I value specificity higher than simplicity.) "Cap Throw" is fine then. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 21:03, November 2, 2024 (EDT)

== Super Mario Run Muncher Image ==

I think the image for Muncher should be a row of Munchers, not a single Muncher. Munchers only ever appear in rows in ''Super Mario Run'', and having the image as a row of these makes the idea of "platforms but standing on them inflicts damage to the player" more obvious. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 13:05, November 16, 2024 (EST)
:Perhaps, though Munchers only appear in rows in every game they appear in.
:My incentive is to use squared screenshots for the mainline ''Super Mario'' articles. I think they look nicer in a table than screenshots where every single one is cropped to different dimensions. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:43, November 16, 2024 (EST)

== Flatbed Ferry ==

Since we now know that "Flatbed Ferry" is a catch-all for rail-based lifts and not just the funny zigzag lifts, think that might warrant re-splitting with that in mind? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:01, November 26, 2024 (EST)
:I don't think that is a bad idea. However, the majority of the lifts in the 3D platformers move along tracks but are only recognized as normal lifts in both Japanese and English material. Cursorily, do you think a "Flatbed Ferry" article should only encompass the lifts that move along tracks in the 2D platformers (e.g. the lifts explicitly denoted as Sen Rifuto and Rēru Rifuto in the source material), or should the ones from the 3D platformers also be included with the understanding that they are just called lifts in those games (e.g. shared form and function trumps official denotation)? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 11:21, November 26, 2024 (EST)
::That would warrant a bigger discussion. Same as to whether things like the [[Trick Track Trek]] lift should be included. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:13, November 26, 2024 (EST)

== Albatoss sprite ==

I mean, it has the head crest and all that. I can see someone thinking it's a pterosaur (especially given how weird they tend to look in pop culture). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:48, November 27, 2024 (EST)
:My issue with being declarative like that is that I feel it is being very assertive while unsubstantiated. Many birds do have crests, including many raptors, and it is pretty common for large mythical birds like {{wp|Roc (mythology)|Rocs}} or griffins to be depicted with crests in pop culture. So the crest alone is not really indicative of anything on its own, in my view.
:In terms of other details, most pop-culture depictions of pterosaurs at least give them conical snouts and, particularly at the time, clawed hands with bat-like wings or hang glider-esque patagia. Sometimes they were even given long tails. The Albatoss sprite does not have any traits like that. Even here, the beak looks hooked and there seems to be flight feathers coming off of the wings. So I do not see any traits here that would tell me it is a pterosaur or even a culturally-outdated depiction of one. It only has avian traits.
:If someone did not critically know much about these animals, I can see someone misreading the intended clade of an enemy sprite. However, (and you are welcomed to enlighten me on this if it is something you know concretely), I don't think we really know how the ''Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten'' was written. I suspect resources and text were provided by Nintendo themselves because the intent behind books like this is to promote their media and products. So I do not think a third-party editor was making original interpretations from sprites on a screen or anything like that. I think it is more likely they referred to Albatoss as a pterosaur because Nintendo said it was pterosaur.
:I would not feel comfortable writing this because it is speculative, but I suspect they assert Albatoss is a "pterosaur" and a member of the "dinosaur clan" because they thought it would be a fun detail for their enemy to be a big prehistoric bird without understanding that pterosaurs are ''not'' birds (and also not even dinosaurs). - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 10:22, November 27, 2024 (EST)

== Just letting you know... ==

I've been on a massive SMB3 NES-ripping binge, so there's a lot of higher quality new rips courtesy of myself on TSR. They all use the preferred NEStopia palette. Just in case you wanted to look into that. I'm probably going to upload the game's maps from NESmaps with palette corrections to the wiki soon (like I did with SMB2), as that's what spurred this. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:22, December 2, 2024 (EST)
:Thanks for the head's up! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:26, December 2, 2024 (EST)

== Toad Brigade captain  ==

Can you please provide an in-game quote with "captain" lowercase in "Toad Brigade Captain"? That'd be a better source. [[User:Dwhitney|Dwhitney]] ([[User talk:Dwhitney|talk]]) 19:17, December 6, 2024 (EST)
:I will have to track down an example. I know for certain it is from an in-game conversation with one of the Toad Brigade members (maybe Fluffy Bluff Galaxy from ''Galaxy 2''), but most let's plays online ignore them and our quote pages are incomplete. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:36, December 6, 2024 (EST)
::{{@|Dwhitney}}, in Grand Finale Galaxy, one of the Toads says "I'm doing my best impression of the Toad Brigade captain! Not bad, eh?" {{User|Seandwalsh}} and {{User|PaperSplash}} have dumped and cleaned up the full English script, and {{User|LadySophie17}} was kind enough to share it with me. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:50, January 3, 2025 (EST)

==[[Special:Diff/4454286|Curious Clouds]]==
Oh hey, by the way, about that. Heads-up: [[User talk:Jdtendo#Re:Hoppin≠Hoppycat|Jdtendo]] has a copy of the Nintendo DREAM guide. Following what was said there, I decided to mark Deka Hoppin and Wonder Gottsun with better source needed. Maybe check in with Jdtendo about corroborating ''Super Mario Bros. Wonder'' subjects with his Nintendo DREAM guide and your Kadokawa guide. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:03, December 7, 2024 (EST)
::Happy holidays, {{@|LinkTheLefty}}. I'm sorry, I somehow missed your message. I am sheepish to admit that I do not have the physical Kadokawa guide. I only know the Japanese name for the cloud and some other subjects because of the book's [https://prcdn.freetls.fastly.net/release_image/7006/13961/7006-13961-6479fc292449db59ab22ec9313bc1bfc-2000x1418.jpg?format=jpeg&auto=webp&quality=85%2C65&width=1950&height=1350&fit=bounds official previews]. I'm unfortunately not in a financial position where I feel comfortable buying foreign books for the wiki (though I would like to someday).
::Incidentally, I have been reaching out to Jdtendo for specific information concerning Japanese names, and his help has been invaluable. Great minds think alike :) - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:31, December 26, 2024 (EST)
:::I see, that's cool. Happy holidays to you, too. By the way, I think this may be the fastest I've seen a blue username turn green. I approve. 👍 [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:35, December 28, 2024 (EST)

== NSMB Ice Block ==

Weren't those two separate tiles? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:39, December 16, 2024 (EST)
:I do not believe the previously uploaded tile is internally intended to be a true Ice Block. Rather, just a single tile of [[User:Nintendo101/flowerpot|ice floor]]. I had uploaded an extended example that I think more accurately exemplifies the distinction between the two [[:File:NSMB Asset Sprite Ice.png|here]]. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:46, December 16, 2024 (EST)

== Template question ==

I should've asked sooner, but which templates did I make that people aren't comfortable using? {{tem|appearances list}}, {{tem|content description}}, and {{tem|content appearances}} are a few, from what I know. The "content" ones were intended for universal consistency with lists. Seeing someone edit {{tem|number of enemies}}, I wondered if that was another one, even though it seems straightforward and isn't subject to change. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 14:04, December 20, 2024 (EST)
:Howdy! Primarily {{tem|content appearances}}, and for quite a few of the reasons I mention on its talk page. The other ones may have comparable issues, but content appearances is the one I am most familiar with. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:34, December 20, 2024 (EST)

== Enemy table idea ==

I had an idea on how to include enemies' appearances in a game with more depth, which will work for ''Sunshine'' and the ''Galaxy'' games (not ''64'' so much since the number of non-boss enemies whose presence in a world changes depending on the mission can be counted on one hand.):

{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;text-align:center"
|-style="color:white;background:red"
!rowspan=2 width=10%|Name
!rowspan=2 class=unsortable|Description
!colspan=2 class=unsortable|Appearances
!rowspan=2 class=unsortable|Spoils
!rowspan=2|New
|-style="color:white;background:red"
!width=10%|Galaxies
!width=15%|Missions
|-
|rowspan=4 data-sort-value=Gooa style="background:white"|[[File:SMG Goomba Model.png|100x100px]]<br>[[Goomba]]
|rowspan=4 align=left|Squat mushroom creatures that chase Mario when he is in their line of sight. A Goomba is defeated when stomped. Spinning or shooting one with a Star Bit knocks it over and makes it spin like a top, leaving it vulnerable to being kicked.
|[[Gateway Galaxy]]
|style="text-align:left"|[[File:Smg icon grandstar.png|link=Grand Star Rescue]][[File:Smg icon redstar.png|link=Gateway's Purple Coins]]
|rowspan=4|{{icon|SMG-Coin}}×1<br>{{icon|SMG-Bit}}×3<br>{{icon|SMG-Key}}×1
|rowspan=4|—
|-
|[[Good Egg Galaxy]]
|style="text-align:left"|[[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=Dino Piranha (mission)]][[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=A Snack of Cosmic Proportions]][[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=King Kaliente's Battle Fleet]][[File:Smg icon speedycomet.png|link=Dino Piranha Speed Run]][[File:Smg icon purplecomet.png|link=Purple Coin Omelet]][[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=Luigi on the Roof]]
|-
|[[Space Junk Galaxy]]
|style="text-align:left"|[[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=Pull Star Path]][[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=Kamella's Airship Attack]][[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=Tarantox's Tangled Web]][[File:Smg icon speedycomet.png|link=Pull Star Path Speed Run]][[File:SMG Asset Sprite Star Cursor.png|link=Purple Coin Spacewalk]][[File:Smg icon powerstar.png|link=Yoshi's Unexpected Appearance]]
|-
|colspan=2|...and so on and so forth
|-
|data-sort-value=Gra style="background:white"|[[File:SMG Goomba Artwork.png|100x100px]]<br>[[Big Goomba|Grand Goomba]]
|align=left|A giant Goomba. It is defeated only when spun and kicked. Only one Grand Goomba appears in the whole game.
|[[Gateway Galaxy]]
|style="text-align:left"|[[File:Smg icon grandstar.png|link=Grand Star Rescue]][[File:SMG Asset Sprite Star Cursor.png|link=Gateway's Purple Coins]]
|{{icon|SMG-Key}}×1
|—
|}
-[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:24, December 20, 2024 (EST)
:Howdy! It's a neat idea, but, in my view, there is such a thing as "too much" information for these tables. Part of the reason why I [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Super_Mario_Galaxy&oldid=4179354#Returning_enemies stopped listing every level that each enemy appears in] is because it overextends the individual rows for some enemies (like Goombas, which occur in almost all levels in the Galaxy) and looked quite poor for no real benefit. I think the setup you have would bring that problem back, especially for Goomba. Listing every level and mission an enemy appears in may be better placed on each enemy's individual article, rather than the enemy table on the main game article. It is already [[Special:LongPages|quite big as it is]]. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:10, December 20, 2024 (EST)

== On History top level headers being franchises instead of series (MvDK corner case) ==

Hi again! I noticed some articles have had their history sections changed, going from the top level header being a series to being a franchise. I see the appeal of arranging things this way, since it makes certain connections more obvious. (Why hello, Yoshi's Island series being separated from Yoshi's Woolly World and Yoshi's Crafted World. Curveball of the century, that one.) But there is a very nasty corner case that has to be addressed. Namely, the ''[[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (series)|Mario vs. Donkey Kong]]'' series. Currently, that series is treated on this wiki as being in both the Donkey Kong franchise and Super Mario franchise simultaneously. Which means there's a problem, because presumably those games can't be under a Donkey Kong franchise header and a Super Mario franchise header at the same time. "Once and only once" would be upset if that was the solution. 

The other options are picking one of the two franchises, a change in overall organization, or declaring ''Mario vs Donkey Kong'' exempt and putting it as it's own top level header. Which would be a very odd inconsistency to have, but I'd actually favor picking that unless the wiki decides ''Mario vs Donkey Kong'' games are actually Donkey Kong games instead of being both Super Mario and Donkey Kong games. Which I personally dislike because the brand of ''Mario vs Donkey Kong'' is defined by it being a mash-up, right down to the logo. 

An example of this corner case is [[Rope]], which is grouping Mario vs Donkey Kong as exclusively a Donkey Kong franchise game. I assume this means that is the option you prefer, though I do not know if you were aware of the wiki's treatment of ''Mario vs Donkey Kong'' before making that choice. [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 18:41, December 21, 2024 (EST)
:Personally, I would only recognize the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' series as part of the ''Donkey Kong'' franchise because of its direct connection to the Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' game, and that game is in all essence a sequel to the arcade ''Donkey Kong'' games. However, regardless of my feelings, we currently consider it part of ''Mario'' and ''Donkey Kong''. This does not have to be conflict: It just means you choose how to arrange these games on a per article basis. For example, the ropes in ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' are mechanical descendants from the chains and vines in the ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' arcade game, so I would put ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' info under the ''Donkey Kong'' franchise header in that case. Whether one decides to do that for other subjects in other articles is up to the editor. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:25, December 21, 2024 (EST)
::Idea: make "Crossovers" a pretend franchise, as the only crossover property Super Mario Wiki covers that is a franchise of itself is Skylanders. Mario vs Donkey Kong is a crossover, pretend this status supersedes its involvement in Super Mario and Donkey Kong. If you squint, everything works! [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 00:21, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::I am sorry, but I don't think I follow. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:25, January 24, 2025 (EST)

== For your excellent cooperation with others! ==

<center>{{Template:WikiLove Cooperation}}
For your amazing teamwork and cooperation skills throughout the Mario Wiki community, I present you with the [[IDLE]] Cooperation trophy! What better way than to end the year with an award from a friend? Thanks for always being kind to others during wiki discussions and whatnot!</center>
{{User:Sparks/sig}} 16:13, December 26, 2024 (EST)
:Well that is very kind of you. Thank you! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:15, December 26, 2024 (EST)
::It's well deserved! Feel free to house some nice plants in that trophy. {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:30, December 26, 2024 (EST)

== Gender==
By the way, I'm a he, not a she. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 17:37, December 26, 2024 (EST)
:Good to know. Thank you! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:38, December 26, 2024 (EST)

== Abbreviations ==

Sorry, I hadn't known that you didn't want the template on your articles. However, {{tem|a}} is the result of a democratically passed proposal that I made, so I hope you'll allow me to still use it in articles that do not count as part of the scope of your projects. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 14:34, December 29, 2024 (EST)
:Howdy! Unless I am misinterpreting the proposal, it seems to permit the creation and use of a template on the site, not to require it. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:35, December 29, 2024 (EST)
::Yeah, it's not required. It's there handy for people to use if they want to, which for your work is not the case. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:16, December 29, 2024 (EST)
:::It's just conceptually easier for me to work an article if the text I am entering is close to what is displayed. I was the same way in comp sci.
:::I think it would be great to look at how this template could impact some of the [[Special:LongPages|longer articles on the site]] (though preferably not the mainline game articles at the moment, if that's alright with you). - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:00, December 29, 2024 (EST)

== SMB3 cannon ==

According to LTL on cannon's talk page, the JP name for the sideways cannons treated them as the "normal" cannon while the diagonal ones were treated as the subtype for that game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:31, December 30, 2024 (EST)
:Yep! I know. The diagonal cannon inherited the role of "normal cannon" for most subsequent games. But they are recognized as separate subjects in ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' regardless, so the tank cannon should receive a distinct article, in my view. — [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:54, December 30, 2024 (EST)
::But normal cannons have been horizontal in other games too, such as the ''Galaxy'' games, ''3D World'', and DK'94. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:09, December 30, 2024 (EST)
:::Yes, but they are typically not fastened to tanks. What I refer to as the "stubby cannon" I conceptualize as a subject exclusive to ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and its GBA remake.
:::For me, principally, if two subjects are listed as discrete, separate entities within the same game by the publisher, as is the case for these cannons in the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' section of the encyclopedia, they are attestably separate subjects and are best represented by having their own articles. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:29, December 30, 2024 (EST)
::::I suppose that's comparable to [[ball and chain (windup)]] and [[spiked weight]]'s history, though I guess I just see hostile cannons as closer to enemies than I do those. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:34, December 30, 2024 (EST)
:::::I view the cannons similarly, but that is partially what informs my perspective. Unlike something like a Koopa Troopa, one cannot just change the color of one cannon to make it look like they other. They have completely different forms. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:43, December 30, 2024 (EST)
::::::Makes sense to me. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:48, December 30, 2024 (EST)

== RE: Question ==

Hi

First off, I did have a great holiday, thanks for asking.

Second, yes, I do have a Discord account. I've been on the site's discord server a few times. Whatever needs to be discussed, I'm open. Nervous, but open. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
:Nothing to be nervous about! Are you in the Super Mario Wiki Discord currently? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:47, January 1, 2025 (EST)
::I am active on Discord as we speak and yes, I am in the Super Mario Wiki Discord. I have not left any message as of right now, but whatever needs to be done, let me know. {{User:Tails777/sig}}

== Voice matters ==

{{WikiLove Shell}}

I'm giving this because I appreciate that your confidence and honesty to voice concerns over the abbreviation template, even with a unanimously passed proposal. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 21:23, January 2, 2025 (EST)
:Thanks :) - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:29, January 2, 2025 (EST)
::You're welcome. Are you okay if I still use the template sparingly? Meaning that I make edits to articles not for the reason of adding it? My hands feel relief when using it at times, like for pages with identifiers. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:51, January 3, 2025 (EST)

== The Galaxy games' lava-based obstacles ==

I noticed you split the fireballs on the ''Galaxy'' page. I've been trying to figure out how to best list all of them, since there's so much variance there in size, shape, number, behavior, and more visual traits like viscosity. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:21, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:Indeed. I agree it is a can of worms. For ''Super Mario Galaxy'' though, it is notable they lump this object with the "Lava Geysers" in the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' section of the encyclopedia. So rather than fire, I think the intent is for it to be an obstacle made of lava/magma. I cannot speak for other instances of "Fireball" though. Cursorily, I think there is a recurring "Fire" or "Flame" obstacle separate from Fireballs that we don't really cover well. It seems we instead cover it in pieces, such as on the [[Flamethrower]] article. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:25, January 4, 2025 (EST)
::Interesting, does that lumping include the arcing things that come out of lava similar to [[Lava Ghost]]s? For instance, on the lava planets in the Freezeflame Galaxy and Freezy Flake Galaxy. They look rather fiery, but due to their path being an arc rather than a full ring (including despawning when they submerge), they're only found in lava. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:28, January 4, 2025 (EST)
:::That hazard is not isolated in the encyclopedia (maybe it is in the Japanese guidebook for SMG - SmokedChilli may have that, if you want to reach out to them), but I do not think it is supposed to be the recurring Fireball hazard from other games either. Maybe it is conceptualized as an iteration of the same lava plume hazard I split on the ''Galaxy'' page, but at minimum I think it is an artistic adaptation of a {{wp|solar flare}}, especially considering how they glow. The English Prima guide refers to those hazards as "cosmic energy" a couple of times. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:13, January 5, 2025 (EST)

== "Sockpuppet of an Existing Account" for an IP address? ==
Hi, just noticed that you put in "Sockpuppet of an Existing Account" as your block summary when blocking an IP address. However, I'm pretty sure that IP addresses are not tied to a specific account, so how would they be considered "sockpuppets" of existing accounts? Just wondering. [[User:Mari0fan100|Mari0fan100]] ([[User talk:Mari0fan100|talk]]) 13:37, January 20, 2025 (EST)
:This user is associated with another account called "KeeganGamer2049" on our end, but that account seems to have been deleted or something to that affect. The user also stated they were a blocked user in their edit summary. I would not know how else to categorize that. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:42, January 20, 2025 (EST)

== "black" boss variations ==

Letting you know the Mario Portal update has changed those; rather than "Dino Piranha (Black)," it's not "Black Dino Piranha," with the others having changed the same way. I'm not sure what the best way to update the citations is since now the archive link is the only way to see the previous iterations. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:10, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:I have seen! I think we better just archive those links and wait for a broader discussion (and probably ask {{@|LinkTheLefty}} what he thinks - I am cursorily aware he has had some sort of Mario Portal-related proposal incubating for a while). But, regardless, since I have you here, I have been thinking the black-colored Dino Piranha should probably be called "Fiery Dino Piranha" in ''Galaxy'' and ''Galaxy 2'' related contexts. The proposal that merged their articles and attributed the current names was based on the impression that Black Fletcher attributed the name "Fiery Dino Piranha" to the boss after the mission uncritically, which would make some sense considering the mission's Japanese name is not the boss's Japanese name. However, [[:File:FieryDinoPiranhaTradingCard.png|Fiery Dino Piranha is the name on the card created by EnterPlay]]. Because EnterPlay produces playing cards, I find it highly improbable that they were had reviewed any gameplay material themselves, and that the name "Fiery Dino Piranha" was likely provided by Nintendo of America. Even if that was an independent localization choice made by NoA, I don't think that renders it invalid, especially since that is the name carried over to the ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' Prima Games guide, in which there is no mission called "Fiery Dino Piranha." - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:20, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::They also called Kingfin "Bonefin," which is another Prima gaffe considering the mission name is "Kingfin's Fearsome Waters." I don't trust it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:28, January 24, 2025 (EST)

== SMG boss music ==

I mean the Mandibug Stack is the only one without boss music at all. And most bosses in SM64 lacked boss music (Big Boo x3, Big Mr. I, Big Bully x2, Chill Bully, Piranha Flowers...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:49, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:I do not think it is accurate to consider the Fire Piranha Plants to be bosses, but regardless, if that is what you meant, it was not conveyed clearly. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 00:50, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::I see no other way to interpret what I typed. Also, SM64's official website treated them as such and they cause a star to appear when defeated, which is only true of bosses in that game (I actually made a discussion on the matter back in the day and it was supported). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:52, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::I'm familiar with SM64's site, but it is not really considered such elsewhere, or at least in the Japanese and English material I have access to. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 01:01, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::::I'm also going to contest removing the links above the tables. They're there for ease of access, and we shouldn't force readers to go on a scavenger hunt to find them in the table for "engagement" if they're curious about what they are in the context of the prose beforehand. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:04, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::::It's not an engagement thing. I wrote the table to be read, not to be a table of contents. I do the same thing for every article I have worked on. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 01:06, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::::::You said in your edit summary "I would like readers to '''engage''' with that before being directed elsewhere." I disagree with removing the ability to do other than this on principal. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:08, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::::::When I say "engage," I mean read the article they are visiting. I don't think anything is really taken away from the reader. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 01:11, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::::::::That is what I meant by engage as well. They still should not have to hunt down a link further down the page when we traditionally always link the first instance in the prose. As for Rocto, then by the same token Bomp and Tox Box should be listed alongside Thwomp, since they're just as similar (especially the former). <small>Also, why remove the straightforward Scuttlebug example? Four-legged spiders whose size, body/head shape, general body pattern, and generalized behavior were close enough that ''this very site'' listed them as being the same thing for a decade after the game released has to count for something.</small> [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:18, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::::::::I guess I don't think Sproing and Sprangler are physiologically similar enough to Scuttlebugs to feel comfortable being that declarative, and I would rather exercise neutrality. Cartoon spiders across media have similar proportions to all three of them, so it does not really tell me anything in itself. Their Japanese names don't convey relatedness either. I was not involved with their articles too deeply on the site, but it being left alone for a decade does not really make me feel any more convinced. I have seen mistakes left on this site for a very long time (such as the assertion that Crabbers occur in the Beach Bowl Galaxy, which you kindly corrected, I believe). I at least see the aesthetic connection between Scuttlebugs and Tarantox's suction-cup feet, at least, but even then the most I would feel comfortable asserting is that it is a recurring design motif for ''Mario'' arthropods of the era.
:::::::::I am indifferent with listing Tox Boxes next to Thwomps - in these games they are at least similar (less so in SM64). I think it is a little more difficult for me personally to confidently assess the relatedness between beings that are not based on fungi, plants, or animals. (That is something others may have an easier time doing.) My convictions for Rocto are stronger. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 01:31, January 24, 2025 (EST)
<gallery>
MP7ScuttlebugModel.png
SpoingSMG.png
</gallery>
::::::::::I mean, they look pretty much like the same thing in a shifted art style to me (and it's hardly a stranger to redesigns), but OK. They're definitely more -physically- similar to each other than Unagi with Gringill, which was left, and their similarities begin and end at "giant cave-dwelling eel." But anyway, I still think removing the links in the prose at the start does more harm than good. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:35, January 24, 2025 (EST)

== Scope of "Trample Switch" ==

Hey, so I was going to create the page for Trample Switch next, but I'm a little confused as to what counts as one. For example, are the ones in ''Super Mario Odyssey'' P Switches or Trample Switches? Also, the instruction manual for ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' does refer to the object as a P Switch, despite looking like the Trample Switch from ''Super Mario 3D World''. Any clarification would help. - [[User:ViableBunnyBudd|ViableBunnyBudd]] ([[User talk:ViableBunnyBudd|talk]]) 22:03, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:That is a good question, and I believe the P Switch in ''Super Mario Odyssey'' is called a "TrampleSwitch" in it's in-game files.
:My impression is that a "Trample Switch" is a flat P Switch that the player character can just walk across to trigger, not a button protruding from the ground they have to jump on. It is really for Captain Toad to use in his courses, or that is at least what I thought. However, I recently realized that there is what seems to be a normal P Switch in [[Captain Toad Makes a Splash]], so I am less positive on what the difference is, but I haven't done any deep digging of my own beyond that observation. Maybe Captain Toad triggers Trample Switches in a different way from P Switches.
:But at the very least, I believe a P Switch in ''Super Mario 3D World'' looks like [[:File:P Switch SM3DW Prima.jpg|a round button]], whereas a Trample Switch in the same game is a [[:File:SM3DW Artwork Trample Switch.jpg|flat panel]], and this is the one included in ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker''. I suspect there is some sort of mechanical difference between them, or else they would not have two different designs in ''Super Mario 3D World'' at all. In making a "Trample Switch" article, I would try to pinpoint what that mechanical difference is within ''Super Mario 3D World'' and start drafting an article from that premise. Despite the filenames, I don't think the P Switch in ''Super Mario Odyssey'' really counts as the same thing because it is not a panel flat with the ground. It's still a protruding button, just squared, but it may be worth mentioning in the header.
:I hope that was somewhat helpful. If you need more substantive help with research, feel free to let me know. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:18, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::Yeah, this whole situation is really confusing. The P Switches and Trample Switches are ''functionally identical'', except for the fact that the Trample Switches can be walked on, while P Switches need to be pressed from above. The one in Captain Toad Makes a Splash is a P Switch, while for the Trample Switches, they only appear in one level, Captain Toad Takes a Spin. I think the two designs exist because they both make sense in their respective contexts in the levels.
::Also, what's up with the CT:TT [[P Panel]]? If the blue one is a Trample Switch... you color it orange and call it a P Panel? That is insanely unintuitive.
::Odyssey's switches have more in common with the Trample Switches, strangely enough. They also can be pressed by just walking over them. Combined with the filename thing I am really lost with those ones. - [[User:ViableBunnyBudd|ViableBunnyBudd]] ([[User talk:ViableBunnyBudd|talk]]) 22:59, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::The "press from above" vs. "walk across" is probably what differentiates them. I personally think that is sufficient (I personally want to know if Japanese text provides different names for them in ''Super Mario 3D World'' - Nintendo will sometimes give two related subjects different names when they cooccur in the same game, but give the more obscure one the name of the more popular one if it shows up by itself in a future release... and then sometimes go back to using two separate names if they decide to use the two subjects in the same game again. I hope the way I said it makes sense). However, if involves the ''Super Mario Odyssey'' switch, it may be better to table this specific subject for now. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:13, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::::Oh, I just remembered another way that the Trample Switches differ from the P Switches. Trample Switches ''can'' (not always) be pressed multiple times (i.e. doing by doing full loops in Captain Toad Takes a Spin or levels like Up 'n' Down Terrace where the switches "refresh" after hitting another one), whereas with the 3D World P Switches they are one and done. ...Odyssey's switches can also be pressed multiple times, such as when a timer challenge is failed, or that one sub-area in Lost Kingdom - you know, that one. I guess that's another similarity Odyssey's switches have with the Trample Switch.
::::Oh, and the translation for the Trample Switch for CTTT in Japan is literally just P Switch, so. - [[User:ViableBunnyBudd|ViableBunnyBudd]] ([[User talk:ViableBunnyBudd|talk]]) 23:25, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::::Huh, that's actually pretty interesting. If you still want to make the Trample Switch article, I would cover ''Super Mario 3D World'' and ''Captain Toad'' at minimum, but I would at least open a discussion in the talk page for ''Super Mario Odyssey''. I only saw that because I can see some folks having reservations on including it since it is just called a "P Switch."
:::::I'll see if I can find if the P Switch and Trample Switch go by different names in Japanese material for the original ''Super Mario 3D World''. That's sometimes a cue that they are recognized by the developers as legitimately different things. The decision to just call the latter a "P Switch" in ''Captain Toad'' and ''Odyssey'' may have more to do with the fact that it is the only one in the game, so there is no need to differentiate it from "normal" P Switches. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:30, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::::::I threw together a draft in my [[User:ViableBunnyBudd/sandbox|sandbox]] if you'd like to look at it. I'm not adding Odyssey into it just yet. - [[User:ViableBunnyBudd|ViableBunnyBudd]] ([[User talk:ViableBunnyBudd|talk]]) 23:44, January 24, 2025 (EST)

== English (United Kingdom) language for Princess Peach: Showtime! ==

Hey. I just came here after seeing one of [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]]'s edits. In their edit they said that even though the NoA English script is also used by NoE it’s put on separate en_US and en_GB language files in different folders, so they added English (United Kingdom). I just removed that one if the script is just the same for both, but then thought of bringing it back. The only problem is I can’t put a not after “en_gb=y” explaining that. I tried what I could, but the note still wouldn’t show up. How do I put a note/reference after a language, or is that just not possible? [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 19:06, February 3, 2025 (PST)
:I'm sorry, I would like to help, but I don't think I understand what you are referring to. Can you provide a link to the article you are talking about? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:09, February 3, 2025 (EST)
::Here’s the link to the edit I was referring to for Princess Peach: Showtime!: https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Princess_Peach:_Showtime!&oldid=4664792

::It’s what gave me the idea of readding English (United Kingdom) as a playable but add a note beside to mention that the English script is the same for English (United States) and English (United Kingdom) but stored onto separate "en_US" "en_GB" files on different folders. Should I add that note or either keep it with just English (United States), or even change it to just say English? [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 19:19, February 3, 2025 (PST)
:::Sorry for the delayed response! I do not believe it is possible to include the note you want within the boundaries of how the infoboxes are set up. I recommend including it in the "Notes" section at the bottom of the page. Do you think that would work? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:11, February 4, 2025 (EST)
::::If it goes for Princess Peach: Showtime!, does it also apply for games like the 2023 remake of Super Mario RPG, the 2024 remake of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, Mario and Luigi: Brothership, as well as Mario Golf: Super Rush? [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 19:16, February 4, 2025 (PST)
:::::Do you mean in the coding of how the scripts are stored within those specific games? I do not know personally know. If you mean the same thing would have to be done for those pages if that ''is'' the case, I would say so. It is an interesting thing to note for those games. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:18, February 4, 2025 (EST)
::::::I really don’t know myself. You should probably ask [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]]. They know more about this than I do. From looking into the files is where they found that out for Princess Peach: Showtime! Unsure for the other tho.

::::::I’m still confused on one thing tho: For Super Mario Bros. Wonder and the 2024 remake of Mario vs. Donkey Kong, are there any actual differences between English (United States) and English (United Kingdom) or is it just the same localization stored on different "en_US" and "en_GB" language files on different folders like the other listed games above? [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 19:16, February 4, 2025 (PST)
:::::::Again, I really do not know. I am not someone who reviews that type of information or knows how. I would recommend reaching out to my fellow staff members {{User|Mario}} or {{User|Ray Trace}}. I think they would be more familiar with how the scripts for these games are internally stored. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:26, February 4, 2025 (EST)
::::::::I went ahead and let both of them know, so now I’m just waiting to see what they say. [[User:CarlosYoshiBoi|CarlosYoshiBoi]] ([[User talk:CarlosYoshiBoi|talk]]) 22:26, February 4, 2025 (PST)
:::::::::Great! - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 01:29, February 5, 2025 (EST)

== About Ruby Rocks ==

Mario Portal's images seem to be in err, as the images for both "Ruby Rock" and "Big Ruby Rock" depict boulders of the same size (I've checked the size of every boulder in the game, and in those locations, both are medium). I cannot imagine "big" refers to anything but the one found in [[Soaring on the Desert Winds]], which is utterly massive. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:55, February 4, 2025 (EST)
:Yeah, I saw that after the fact. I should have checked first. This wouldn't be the first time Mario Portal has made [[Small Rammerhead|this kind of mistake]]. I'll check the encyclopedia at some point to see if this is a variant acknowledged in them. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:58, February 4, 2025 (EST)
::I had noticed your note on the Small Rammerhead when you wrote it the other day, I wasn't too surprised to see another of that sort of issue after the boulders here. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:08, February 5, 2025 (EST)