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| ==(First topic)==
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| How are we to handle different translations into the same language? Case in point, the page for the [[Fountain]] lists its French name as "Salle de bains", which I presume is the name in the PAL version of SMG, because the NTSC French version calls it "la Fontaine". How should one remark both names? [[User:Gus|Gus]] 03:34, 23 October 2008 (EDT) | | How are we to handle different translations into the same language? Case in point, the page for the [[Fountain]] lists its French name as "Salle de bains", which I presume is the name in the PAL version of SMG, because the NTSC French version calls it "la Fontaine". How should one remark both names? [[User:Gus|Gus]] 03:34, 23 October 2008 (EDT) |
| :Actually, I didn't even know that ''Mario'' games are available in different languages in North America. Are there more languages in North American versions (European ones usually offer five languages)? And what about Latin America, do they get ''Mario'' games in Spanish and Portuguese or just the English versions? And what is Rosalina named in NTSC French version, Harmonie like in French European version or Rosalina? Uh, to answer your question, I'd just enter both names like done [[Spiny#Foreign Names|here]]. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 06:11, 23 October 2008 (EDT) | | :Actually, I didn't even know that ''Mario'' games are available in different languages in North America. Are there more languages in North American versions (European ones usually offer five languages)? And what about Latin America, do they get ''Mario'' games in Spanish and Portuguese or just the English versions? And what is Rosalina named in NTSC French version, Harmonie like in French European version or Rosalina? Uh, to answer your question, I'd just enter both names like done [[Spiny#Foreign Names|here]]. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 06:11, 23 October 2008 (EDT) |
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| {{foreign names | | {{foreign names |
| |Jpn=マガツリー | | |Jap=マガツリー |
| |JpnR=Magatsurī | | |JapR=Magatsurī |
| |JpnM=Play on「禍津日神」(''Magatsuhi-kami'', god of misfortune) and「ツリー」(''tsurī'', tree) | | |JapM=Play on「禍津日神」(''Magatsuhi-kami'', god of misfortune) and「ツリー」(''tsurī'', tree) |
| |FraE=Épouvantarbre | | |FraE=Épouvantarbre |
| |FraEM=From "épouvante" (terror) and "arbre" (tree) | | |FraEM=From "épouvante" (terror) and "arbre" (tree) |
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| IMO, the concern about references sections getting bloated is overblown anyway. It's a small section at the bottom of the page, and really, we shouldn't be worrying about how many sources a page has - if something needs to be sourced, source it. We don't need to arbitrarily keep the number of sources down - should we be taking an axe to Super Mario Galaxy's [[Super Mario Galaxy#References|153 references]] solely because the list is "too long"? Don Pianta's requirement for 9 sources pales in comparison. I think most users here just aren't used to pages with a lot of references because most of them don't need so many. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:23, August 27, 2024 (EDT) | | IMO, the concern about references sections getting bloated is overblown anyway. It's a small section at the bottom of the page, and really, we shouldn't be worrying about how many sources a page has - if something needs to be sourced, source it. We don't need to arbitrarily keep the number of sources down - should we be taking an axe to Super Mario Galaxy's [[Super Mario Galaxy#References|153 references]] solely because the list is "too long"? Don Pianta's requirement for 9 sources pales in comparison. I think most users here just aren't used to pages with a lot of references because most of them don't need so many. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:23, August 27, 2024 (EDT) |
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| :I do quite like having the list of unsourced names as it makes it easier to keep track of which pages we need to add citations to without having to manually edit in [reference needed] or possibly missing some. As for the citations themselves, I've noticed Apikachu68 just moving the citation to the new section of the template, retaining the references section, so that could always be an option here. Or maybe a hover could be added to the game name to show the quote, for situations like TTYD characters? I feel like there can be flexibility here, and what sources are appropriate / examples of different kinds beyond just game name should be better explained in the template page. Put simply, I like sources being a part of the template (also increases readability slightly imo), and it does not necessarily mean the reference section can't also be used. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:30, August 27, 2024 (EDT) | | :I do quite like having the list of unsourced names as it makes it easier to keep track of which pages we need to add citations to. As for the citations themselves, I've noticed Apikachu68 just moving the citation to the new section of the template, retaining the references section, so that could always be an option here. Or maybe a hover could be added to the game name to show the quote, for situations like TTYD characters? I feel like there can be flexibility here, and what sources are appropriate / examples of different kinds beyond just game name should be better explained in the template page. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:30, August 27, 2024 (EDT) |
| ::I do like that Apikachu68 kept the citation intact, but at that point I don't see why the citation that's only 3-4 characters needs an entire table column to itself instead of being attached to what it's a source for (which is standard practice across the rest of the wiki). --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:37, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::I agree with the points raised by {{@|Waluigi Time}}. Additionally, the integration of this column and how it has been applied (again, with Don Pianta as a good example) fails to address the core purpose of the proposal that recently passed. It takes very little effort for someone to assign a game to a made-up or machine-translated a name. A proper [[Template:Cite|citation]] takes more effort.
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| :::As someone currently involved with academia, I frankly do not see a substantive concern with "overciting." Citations are examples of our editorial diligence and provide the tools necessary for readers to verify this information on their own. Even if readers choose not to do so, simply having those pathways available passively strengthens the perception of the wiki as trustworthy reference material. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:37, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| Don Pianta's foreign name section only name-drops TTYD as a source, which is a long-established practice on this wiki. My entire understanding of that proposal is that every single non-English name would instead require a screenshot, video, or specific passage of text within that game to attest it; quote:<br>"Note that for these citations, using text / quotes is just as valid as including a link or image."<br>That wasn't properly enacted with Don Pianta, so what was even the point of the proposal, then? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:44, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I envisioned what is currently employed for [[Octoomba#Names in other languages|Octoomba]], where names are just cited normally. From my understanding, adding this source column and just enabling the integration of a game's name in it was not part of the proposal's desired outcome. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:01, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::While I did suggest the idea last night, I was expecting discussion on what it would look like before anything was implemented, and it was not a part of the proposal. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 14:06, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::Actually, I don't think this new parameter is a bad idea at all! I just don't think its content should be displayed in a separate column, but appended to the name in its corresponding column, like "グンバ <small>(''Super Mario Bros.'' film)</small>" [[Goomba#Names in other languages|here]]. As WT has already stated, having so many "?" cells on the right is kind of obnoxious. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:22, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::I do not mind having a dedicated column for game releases, but I think there may be competing mindsets with why something like <small>(''Super Mario Bros.'')</small> is integrated. I personally have only integrated game titles like that to convey that a cited name is only associated with that particular release. Some subjects, particularly enemies and items, have had various names throughout history and clarifying to readers that some names have seen more limited use than others is helpful. But that in itself is not a citation, or at least I have never used it as such. It lacks the tools necessary to make it trustworthy and verifiable in citing something that way. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:36, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::I have the exact same mindset, I just think the "Src" parameter can be used to automate the implementation of <code><nowiki><small>[source]</small></nowiki></code> syntax within the Foreign names template. The content of this parameter doesn't need to be automatically formatted like an academic citation, though such citations can be added within this parameter if someone so wishes. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:49, August 27, 2024 (EDT)
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| == About the Source section. == | | == About the Source section. == |
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| :Seems they updated the template as I discussed above. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 12:27, August 27, 2024 (EDT) | | :Seems they updated the template as I discussed above. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 12:27, August 27, 2024 (EDT) |
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| == Game specification ==
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| I've noticed a troubling trend of people trying to put the game identifiers beside the names in the middle rather than the descriptions on the right. This looks terrible - it stretches it horizontally in an awkward, inconsistent manner, leaving large amounts of blank space between the names and descriptions of rows that lack it. The name and description should be ''right'' next to each other for easy reading, and as such the game identifier should be all the way to the right. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, August 28, 2024 (EDT)
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| == Please remove the "[?]" from the template, I am begging you ==
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| [[File:Mario Wiki many question mark icons.png|225px|right]]
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| I am begging you all on my knees. In addition to it making the entire wiki look completely unprofessional and like we just made up everything on almost every page, it was also insult to injury that filling out the new "Notes" cells doesn't remove the "[?]" boxes. ''No one'' are going to look at a page with this kind of section (Image on the right) and think "This wiki seems very professional and an authority on the franchise". This situation is an absolute total disaster. [[User:DandelionSprout|DandelionSprout]] ([[User talk:DandelionSprout|talk]]) 12:22, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I agree it looks horrible, but this is unfortunately the consensus. The [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/68#Require_citations_for_names_in_other_languages|proposal]] concerning citations for names in other languages stated that "Unsourced names will [...] have the [citation needed] notice added." ''15 people voted for this nonsense'', one even calling it a "no-brainer". {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:27, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::For character names I felt it was something I could work with if need be, but for pages that are specifically about singular levels, minigames, or microgames the current implementation is absolutely psychotic. [[User:DandelionSprout|DandelionSprout]] ([[User talk:DandelionSprout|talk]]) 12:30, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::It is what it is. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:33, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::I am '''NOT''' giving up on overturning this crap. I am '''not''' going to '''manually''' mass-fill some circa '''1,100''' WarioWare microgames' pages one at a time with simply "In-game name" for every row. I am '''NOT''' okay with almost any of this. [[User:DandelionSprout|DandelionSprout]] ([[User talk:DandelionSprout|talk]]) 12:35, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::Please keep your cool. I don't like the status quo either, but it's not the end of the world. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:42, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::::As the person who started that proposal, I just want to say some things. First, I would appreciate it if you do not continue indirectly calling the people who were in support of this stupid for doing so. Maybe this was not intentional, but mentioning the people who voted for it is not necessary in this discussion, and I don't want people getting angry at each other over this. Second, you don't have to add the citations if you don't want to. No one is making you specifically do it. Third, "in-game name" is not enough for the citations here, as the thinking is that it can still be faked (not that I believe the majority of editors, including you, would fake that, but there is always the chance of someone editing in bad faith with it being difficult for other editors to confirm the accuracy). As I've said before, you do not have to be the person to add citations if you do not want to. And lastly, feel free to make a new proposal regarding all of this once 4 weeks have passed since this proposal passed, on around September 22nd. I would be happy to discuss how things are going currently and what changes could be made. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 12:45, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| {{@|DandelionSprout}} I know you are upset, and you specifically have put a lot of effort into the foreign names on the wiki, which is deeply appreciated. It is disheartening to see a project one put a lot of effort into have things done to it without one's involvement. I also agree that the original proposal would have benefited from laying out an infrastructural suggestion. However, and I ask this earnestly, isn't the [?] symbol highlighting a problem that exists whether it is displayed in this template or not? My bias comes from the fact that I am in academic right now, but from my view, the lack of citations is what contributes to the perceived lack of professionalisms.
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| {{@|Koopa con Carne}} please be courteous to your fellow users. No one supported the original proposal to give other users a hard time. The issues raised were substantive. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:56, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :The points may have been substantive, the implementation proposed and enacted does more damage than good. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:05, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| Drama aside, I do agree that mass adding citation needed thingies to every single NIOL is overkill, and I would have opposed the proposal had I been paying attention at the time. If possible, it could be programmed so the "[?]" symbols only appear if there's a reference or [citation needed] after the bolded name at the beginning of the article; if the English name needs a cite, it's natural to assume the foreign names need them too. However, if the English name is easily accessible in-game and therefore doesn't need a cite, that probably also applies to the foreign names, barring some weird exceptions. On top of all that, is anyone actually going to want to go through thousands of articles, look up foreign language videos or whatever to get sources for the foreign names, and write properly formatted citations for every single solitary one of them? That would take a metric crapton of time and effort, and I'm skeptical that anyone actually wants to put themselves through that giant mountain of tedium. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 13:43, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I agree the implementation of the proposal has been mixed. How would you recommend we proceed? I personally remain most interested in a citation policy for enemies, places, items, objects, and characters, but I think it is less necessary for things like physical video games, modes, minigames, and extremely recurring characters like Mario or Donkey Kong. It may also not be necessary for subjects that debuted in the Nintendo Switch-era onward due to the accessibility of alternative languages, which would include things like NPCs from ''Princess Peach Showtime!'' - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:47, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::I support going forward with the entrenched, tried-and-true practices the wiki had prior to the proposal's passing. Sources should generally only be cited when they are obscure or volatile, but can safely forgo any explicit mention when concerning names shown or disseminated plainly in a work. Being a human- and community-driven encyclopedia, mistakes and falsehoods are bound to occur, and the best remedy against those errors is to stay vigilant and nip them. A total and drastic makeover, especially one as controversial as this one, begets a lot of other problems, which renders it an improper solution to this ever-waging battle against misinformation. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:10, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::I get what you are saying. Personally, even as someone who supported the proposal, I was unsure why we needed an infrastructural overhaul to execute it, and I do not think that is necessarily what {{@|Technetium}} (who is welcomed to clarify that himself if he wishes) or other users had in mind. I envisioned foreign names just being cited the same way we cite material in the body paragraphs, with the actual result of the proposal being more like a policy revision where users are explicitly encouraged to cite foreign names - putting words to what you more or less describe. Users would be encouraged to act on it as they come across uncited foreign names.
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| :::But that is me, and others are welcomed to think differently. But regardless, I probably should scrutinized the original proposal a bit better, because it seems like some users, both in support and opposition, had different expectations with what would happen when it was executed. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:31, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::I definitely did not think through this fully when I made the proposal (which is 100% my bad and I should've waited to make it), and I just suggested maybe doing something with the template afterwards only for changes to be put in place without any discussion (which I was aiming to start with my message above). I do admittedly like the template changes because it tracks which pages need specifically name citations. But I can also see how users adding citations whenever they stumble across a page without them and ditching all this extra stuff could be a better idea. I do want a tag for any edits adding new names without citations, though, as my hope was that any new names added would be cited by the original editor. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 14:35, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::I can help draft an addendum that will iron out exceptions that should help reduce clutter and unintentional pedantic applications and add extra clarifications closer to the proposal's intent (such as excluding names in Latin languages (ie Mario/Yoshi/Luigi/Wario in French, unless there are exceptions found like Peach being called "Kanttarelli" in Finnish Super Mario Bros.), retroactive addition of the templates to older revisions, etc.) Next time, however, you should have drafted a proposal page in your sandbox and asked other users for feedback before enacting it, it's quite a drastic change from the status quo. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 18:07, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| {{@|DandelionSprout}} That was added in response to a democratically passed proposal. I'm not sure if someone else said, but if you want it overturned so badly, wait until like the end of September to make another proposal. I don't think it's that bad, to be honest. It may just take time getting used to. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 19:13, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I think they are well aware of that proposal, given they were among the opposers. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:35, September 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| I missed the name citation proposal, and I just want to ask, how is this supposed to work exactly? For example, I have a number of edits adding Portuguese names for Mario & Luigi enemies, which I got from my copies of the games. What am I even supposed to cite there? "'Sonomelo' in-game text, [game title]"? Why does that need a citation in the first place? Or would that need an image to prove that that is indeed the name? Should I have taken a picture of my 3DS every time an enemy name is on screen? I don't get it. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 08:45, September 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :{{@|Blinker}} citing "in-game" would be fine in those cases. A screenshot is not necessary. The proposal was integrated as a check to ensure folks are not inventing names, which has happened and is difficult to catch. Unlike ''Mario & Luigi'', most games do not have bestiaries, so for enemies like [[Rocto]], which has not been name-dropped in any game and appeared only twice in pre-Nintendo Switch games where it was not easy to compare languages in one release, it is not at all clear where the uncited names come from. Folks do good work around here, but it is a helpful courtesy to other users and strengthens the reliability of the site to include citations for difficult to verify information. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:12, September 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::Simply saying "name is found in-game" isn't really a solution against fake names, though. Worse yet: anyone can add a fake name, cite a game as a source, and others would take the source at face value. People vigilant enough to spot deceptions will question them whether there's a specious "in-game name" citation or not.<br>Note that I myself have [[Hoop|namedropped]] [[Truck#Names in other languages|game]] [[Toy Duck|titles]] to cite names, but I've only done so for the particularly-difficult-to-find ones, though in hindsight I should have added more specificity (e.g. for those Mario Kart elements, stating something along the lines of "as shown in object actions"). {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:20, September 8, 2024 (EDT), edited [[User:Koopa con Carne|Koopa con Carne]] ([[User talk:Koopa con Carne|talk]]) 17:24, September 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::That's fair. I agree it's not great, but I do generally think even putting a small barrier of entry like requiring a citation is enough to deter most bad actors. I've at least seen it work off of Mario Wiki. It'd be nice if there was some sort of "warning" if a new user or someone with just an IP address was adding a new name without a citation. Folks with a genuine name would be reminded to cite the material they are referencing, whereas bad actors would not feel it is worth the trouble. But I don't know if that would be technically feasible.
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| :::For in-game citations, I generally like adding the sentence a subject is mentioned in game, or at least the scenario where a named subject is encountered. Like the chapter title, or the location of the map where an enemy is encountered in something like ''Mario & Luigi''. For mobile games, I have cited the file directory for names, like I did for [[Octoomba]]. That would provide something more specific as reference for viewers and other editors, rather than vaguely gesturing to the game at large.
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| :::I'm sorry this has been frustrating for some folks. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:48, September 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :If the new "notes" column is filled in, should citation needed ([?]) be disabled? How do we feel about that? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:30, October 14, 2024 (EDT)
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| == Add English to the template and rename to <nowiki>{{international names}}</nowiki> ==
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| {{settled TPP}}
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| {{proposal outcome|failed|1-7|Do not add English}}
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| Since this template now requires to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/68#Require_citations_for_names_in_other_languages|cite names in other languages]], I was wondering if English (Eng=), American English (EngA=), and British English (EngE=) options can be added, as well as Canadian English (EngCa=), Australian English (EngAu=), and other variations in the rare cases of them having naming differences. This is a bit of complex proposal, so hopefully I'll try to be the most clear I can when making my points below.
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| The thing that made me think to add this is the comparable instance of www.nintendo.com and related sources having the same setup and layout, just in different languages. The analog {{tem|multilang profile}} cites profiles in a variety of languages, allowing most languages that this template uses, plus English. For example, you can see on the [[Tanooki Mario]] profiles that the profiles are consistently added and cited in the same way as one another: website descriptions in every language that ''Super Mario 3D Land'' was available in. All of those citations can be given a ref name, and all can be added to the "foreign names" template, plus the game title (''Super Mario 3D Land'') being entered into the |N= parameters, except for British English.
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| But for the main example, if we're citing [[Super Mushroom]]'s names in other languages: a majority would be from ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''. It would seem incomplete if we cited all of the languages plus the game title except for English (also considering it's often used interchangably with "Mushroom," so this can help verify if ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' does that, which the source verifies it does not). Some of the items on the [https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/item/index.html Smashbros.com] website do not list profiles for all of the items, with Super Mushroom being one of them.
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| I'll construct a visual example to better show what I'm trying to talk about:
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| <pre>
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| {{foreign names
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| |Ger=Superpilz
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| |GerM=Super Mushroom
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| |GerN=''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''
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| |GerC=<ref name="ssbu_de">{{cite|language=de|publisher=www.smashbros.com|date=2018|url=www.smashbros.com/de_DE/item/index.html|archive=web.archive.org/web/20190417174925/https://www.smashbros.com/de_DE/item/index.html|title=Items {{!}} ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' – Offizielle Seite {{!}} Nintendo Switch {{!}} Nintendo|accessdate=September 12, 2024}}</ref>
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| |SpaE=Superchampiñón
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| |SpaEM=Super Mushroom
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| |SpaEN=''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''
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| |SpaC=<ref name="ssbu_es">{{cite|language=es-es|publisher=www.smashbros.com|date=2018|url=www.smashbros.com/es_ES/item/index.html|archive=web.archive.org/web/20190502171037/https://www.smashbros.com/es_ES/item/index.html|title=Objetos {{!}} ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' – Sitio web oficial {{!}} Nintendo Switch {{!}} Nintendo|accessdate=September 12, 2024}}</ref>
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| |SpaA=Superchampiñón
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| |SpaAM=Super Mushroom
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| |SpaAN=''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''
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| |SpaC=<ref name="ssbu_es-la">{{cite|language=es-la|publisher=www.smashbros.com|date=2018|url=www.smashbros.com/es_LA/item/index.html|archive=web.archive.org/web/20190617083802/https://www.smashbros.com/es_LA/item/index.html|title=Objetos {{!}} ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' – Sitio web oficial {{!}} Nintendo Switch {{!}} Nintendo|accessdate=September 12, 2024}}</ref>
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| }}
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| </pre>
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| While these aren't all of the languages, if we're going by just the few examples above, we can see the template is on its way to referencing every language option available on the Smashbros.com website. Wouldn't it be consistent to have English part of it, too (and also providing the good measure of showing an official source where Super Mushroom is listed)? Ex.:
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| <pre>
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| |EngA=Super Mushroom
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| |EngAN=''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''
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| |EngAC=<ref name="ssbu_en-us">{{cite|language=en-us|publisher=www.smashbros.com|date=2018|url=www.smashbros.com/en_US/item/index.html|archive=web.archive.org/web/20190617083802/https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/item/index.html|title=''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' for the Nintendo Switch system|accessdate=September 12, 2024}}</ref>
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| </pre>
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| The only thing that has me stumped in execution of this idea is EngM= , since the name is generally self-explanatory on an English speaking wiki. Perhaps it can be used for words that are portmanteaus? Though I have seen sentence-long explanations in foreign names, like if it's describing a pun in a different language, so that's possibly something to consider.
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| Besides adding the parameters, if this proposal passes, the "foreign" in the template title will change to a more suitable word, like "international." Also, if this passes, the template will have to be coded so that English or its variations cannot be added unless there's other languages, since this would be redundant, with the name already being in the article opening.
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| Edit: Some games of the ''Super Mario'' franchise, like ''[[Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon]]'', have several naming differences, such as being titled [[Mudroom]] in American English and Side Entrance in British English, so that adds to why I'd find it beneficial to see all of the names in one place.
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}} (banned)<br>
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| '''Deadline''': September 26, 2024, 23:59 GMT
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|
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| ====Support====
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| #{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal.
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| <s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per above.</s>
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|
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| ====Oppose====
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| #[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Not really a fan of this sort of template being used for such a purpose. Maybe a ''second'' template in its own section, but not lumped with the other languages, they get long enough as-is (that also solves the "meaning" issue).
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| #{{User|Blinker}} The same kinds of less obvious names that needed citations in other languages before the proposal, are the same kinds of names that already have citations in English. They're there in the first instance of the name in the article, usually. See [[Robomb]]. Now, if you were to make it so all such names need citations, that would make more sense. I would oppose such a proposal as well, though.
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| #{{User|Technetium}} I don't see the need for this at all when the current way of doing things works just fine. For games at least it's only ever American English and British English - meaning there's only ever going to be a second alt name most of the time that easily fits in the opening sentence of an article.
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| #{{User|Dine2017}} Per all. I feel it's more important to address "from which game" rather than "in which variety of English" ([[Special:PermanentLink/4342924|see here]] for an example).
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| #{{User|GDias}} I don't see the need either. English is already the wiki language, so it's better to leave this template for non-English names only. Games are typically only available in American or British English, and the differences have always been minimal (and even smaller nowadays).
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| #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} No; Current setup is perfectly fine; Per all.
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| #{{User|Justgetmycatch}} Per all. It will take a lot of citations if English was added.
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|
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| ====Comments====
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|
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| == Sinhalese ==
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| Seeing how I can't edit this, could someone please add Sinhalaese to this? I want to include the Sinhalese ''Donkey Kong Country'' TV series name to its article. (I got the source from [https://youtu.be/MZ_2dws3rIc?si=oToZ8BHJY2XXYz57 this video].)
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| {{unsigned|Starluxe}}
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| :ok--{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 14:27, December 4, 2024 (EST)
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|
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| ==Albanian and Galician==
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| Considering that the [[Super Mario World (television series)|''Super Mario World'']] was [https://www.cda.pl/video/22246389c8 dubbed in Albanian] and ''[[Saturday Supercade]]'' was [https://archive.org/details/saturday-supercade/Saturday+Supercade/Donkey+Kong+Junior/Saturday+Supercade+-+Donkey+Kong+Junior+-+05+-+The+Ventriloquist+Caper+(Galician+Dub).mp4 dubbed in Galician], could you add these languages? [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 00:12, December 7, 2024 (EST)
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| :ok--{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 00:25, December 7, 2024 (EST)
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| == Change Japanese language code to "Jpn"? ==
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| If you weren't aware, the code currently used for Japanese is also a racial slur in English for Japanese people. It might be better to change it in this case, even if it's less consistent with other language codes. Other suggestions besides "Jpn" are welcome as well. [[User:Reese Rivers|Reese Rivers]] ([[User talk:Reese Rivers|talk]]) 18:50, January 3, 2025 (EST)
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| :I agree with changing to jpn. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 19:40, January 3, 2025 (EST)
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| ::"JAP" is also code for Japanese classes in university and people don't take issue with that. It's fine as-is, IMO. Just because something can be used as a slur doesn't mean it inherently is. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:09, January 4, 2025 (EST)
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| :::"Jpn" is the ISO 639-2 code for Japanese, according to {{wp|List of ISO 639-2 codes|this Wikipedia page}} at least. The current code isn't even listed on the table as "*Synonyms for terminology applications (ISO 639-2/T) and for *bibliographic applications (ISO 639-2/B)", unlike "Dut" for Dutch and "Chi" for Chinese are, for example. So there's another reason to change the code to "Jpn". [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 08:21, January 4, 2025 (EST)
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| ::::I don't take umbrage, but if it's possible to trim all the language codes to two characters, that'd probably be the best option for space. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:32, January 4, 2025 (EST)
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| :Seconding this. While this ''is'' mostly an internal issue, "Jpn" is both the usual standard 3-letter abbrevation for Japan, and y'know, we feel at least a ''little'' skeevy about having the current one be a slur, even if it's not meant as one. It's a lot like the Romani G-slur, where a lot of people were using it in a completely ordinary context, unaware of its origins of being a slur until it was too late. No idea if it's worth putting to proposal? We can't imagine many people would support the notion of. Keeping a slur in a template's innards. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 14:12, January 4, 2025 (EST)
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| Porple has now changed the template to use Jpn instead. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 07:36, January 8, 2025 (EST)
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| :That's good. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 07:39, January 8, 2025 (EST)
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|
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| == Retitle ==
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|
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| The proposal above decided that English would not become part of the template, so that's not what this question is about. However, I still think that "foreign" seems a little offputting of a title since I see it as a term that's relative to where someone is around the world (for example, an English speaker who lives in Japan wouldn't see Japanese as "foreign"), though I can't think of a better name. Are there any suggestions? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 23:30, January 16, 2025 (EST)
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| :I am an American English speaker, so my perspective should not be weighed as heavily as that of others. However, because American English is the {{wp|lingua franca}} of our site, the application of "foreign" is correct in relation to Super Mario Wiki. For example, on our sister wiki Mario's Castle, English is among their foreign names because the lingua franca of their wiki is German. — [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:58, January 16, 2025 (EST)
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| ::as a native spanish speaker, i'm not too concerned with the "foreign names" name, even though i do find it a bit awkward. i do think maybe changing it to "NIOL" (for Names In Other Languages) might be a good call? it IS shorter byte-wise... {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 00:31, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| :::{{@|EvieMaybe}} I like that idea. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 00:36, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| :::Or "int" for "international" if you want to make it even shorter. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:22, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| :As a native portuguese speaker I am not at all bothered by the name. Overall I am neutral on the name NIOL as well, although it might seem a little confusing if you are not used to the abbreviation. {{User:LadySophie17/sig}} 09:31, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| ::It could be evident since the template always falls under a "Names in other languages" section. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 10:03, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| Change to "NIOL". If the reference point of "foreign" is the fact that the wiki's lingua franca is American English, it follows that a British English name is, too, foreign and should be integrated in such a table, no? Yet if the above proposal is anything to go by, that is clearly not a stance the community is willing to take. Moreover, yes, implying that a language is foreign to the entire readership is kinda alienating. A Romanian name for Toad, for instance, is foreign, to whom? To the vast majority of you, absolutely. To me, a Romanian native, it isn't. The qualifier of "foreign" is thus both inconsistently applied, and inexact, and while I'm not really bothered by it, I think there's nothing valuable to lose from changing it. Also, "NIOL" takes less to type. There's that, too. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 09:43, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| :Those are all good points. — [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 09:49, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| :The term "foreign" in the template title is definitely incorrect. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 10:03, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| I prefer to avoid moving templates unless completely necessary, because it's just another thing that needs to be looked up when you're adding a template you've added a zillion times and suddenly it's a redlink. That's happened to me more than I'd care to count. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:46, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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| :It is necessary if the term is not applied correctly. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 10:03, January 17, 2025 (EST)
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|
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| ==Missing romanizations template==
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| Could you incorporate a template that adds an article to the Articles with missing foreign name romanizations category? [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 07:40, January 20, 2025 (EST)
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|
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| == Omitted M parameter confusion ==
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|
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| {{talk}}
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|
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| Currently, a blank M parameter (e.g., <code>|FreM=</code>) indicates that the meaning is currently unknown, which is displayed as "?", and omitting the M parameter indicates that the meaning is self-explanatory, which is displayed as "-".
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|
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| The problem is: many editors probably don't know that. When they add a foreign name with an unknown meaning, they do not add a M parameter ([https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Allsand_Island&diff=4639971&oldid=4639873 example here]), which means that the name is not added to [[:Category:Articles with unknown foreign name meanings]] and we cannot know that the name meaning is missing.
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| Maybe we should treat an omitted M parameter like a blank M parameter, i.e. the meaning is currently unknown, and ensure that self-explanatory meanings are marked explicitely (e.g., <code>|FreM=-</code>).
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| It seems like a more sensible default behavior and there would not be a counterintuitive difference between blank and omitted parameters. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 01:53, January 23, 2025 (EST)
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| ==Persian==
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| Cam you add Persian to the list of languages as the ''Super Mario World'' television series [https://www.aparat.com/v/b409k5n is dubbed] in this language? [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 02:51, January 29, 2025 (EST)
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| :Is it an official dub? ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Movie]]'' had over a dozen bootleg Persian dubs.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 03:15, January 29, 2025 (EST)
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| ::On [https://dubdb.fandom.com/wiki/%D8%AF%D9%86%DB%8C%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%88 this website], it says that it was dubbed by {{wp|Glory Entertainment}}, so I'm assuming that's official, though I don't know why the VCD has the ending from ''{{wp|Caillou}}''. [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 13:29, January 29, 2025 (EST)
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| :::The wiki page does not work. I think you mean {{wp|Glory Entertainment (The Association of Tehran Young Voice Actors)}}. That still does not prove it was allowed by DIC. Iran has no incentive to enforce American copyright laws due to ongoing sanctions. For example, [https://dubdb.fandom.com/wiki/Qualima Qualima] produced two dubs of the recent movie, both bootlegs, yet is a legally registered company in Iran.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 20:38, January 29, 2025 (EST)
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| ::::Well, I guess unless there's further evidence that this dub is official, I will not add information on it. [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 22:01, January 29, 2025 (EST)
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| ==Flag list template==
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| Could you incorporate the flag list template into this template so that readers can visually see where each foreign name comes from? [[User:Apikachu68|Apikachu68]] ([[User talk:Apikachu68|talk]]) 19:33, March 10, 2025 (EDT)
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| :I experimented with this idea at one point on the {{tem|Multilang profile}} template, but I discovered this approach contributes to some degree of visual clutter and renders itself inefficient in improving visibility. You'd potentially have to list more than one flag for a single entry, since many languages in the template are spoken across multiple countries. For instance, European French, which is assigned its own parameter in the template, is the official language in both France and Belgium. For Latin American Spanish, the chart could become especially cluttered, as the language is spoken across a dozen-or-so countries; even if you'd want to restrict the flags to those from countries where Nintendo sells their products, you'd still need to include the flags of Mexico, Colombia, Chile, Peru, and Argentina. Moreover, certain flags would be repeated across language entries; a country like Switzerland has three official languages in which Mario media has been localized (German, Italian, and French), and the flag would be displayed on each of them.<br>This point of concern should be especially relevant considering this chart [[#Game specification|has a history of bloat]]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:16, March 10, 2025 (EDT)
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| == Basque ==
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| ''Donkey Kong Country'' got a dub in [https://youtu.be/CSrdTqMwZ4E?si=ZGMbAyG3tbH8vEng Basque], so can Basque be added to this template, please? Thanks. {{User:Kaptain Skurvy/sig}} 08:19, March 17, 2025 (EDT)
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| == Proposal: Retitle to "NIOL" ==
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| {{Settled TPP}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|failed|2-10|do not rename}}
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| Based on the above discussion, this proposal aims to retitle the template to "NIOL." What is "foreign" to one user may not be for the other, like how Spanish is not a "foreign" language to people from Latin America, and could be considered alienating in the sense that it's forcing single perspective on all users that suggests all of us speak only English, which is obviously not the case because people from all around the world come to contribute to this website.
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| "NIOL" is short for "Names in other languages," which could already be implied by the section heading itself.
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}} (blocked)<br>
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| '''Deadline''': <s>April 7, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Closed early on March 31, 2025, 23:59 GMT
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|
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| ===Support===
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| <s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per proposal.</s>
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| #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} ヽ(ー_ー )ノ I agree with [[#Retitle|Koopa con Carne]]. Plus, [[#Change Japanese language code to "Jpn"?|with parameters renamed]], this template is already partially unviewable in older page revisions normally, so that part is not much of a concern (you can hit edit to look at source text).
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| #{{User|Koopa con Carne}} A) PorpleBot has been used many times before to rewrite a piece of syntax across thousands of pages in a matter of moments. B) The proposed renaming may break the template in an article's previous versions, but the changes that were logged to the contents of the NIOL charts would still be easily viewable. Every article revision has a log showing precisely what changes occurred in syntax. Also refer to what LTL says in their vote: the template is already broken in history revisions to begin with. C) A word can't be "foreign" to a ''language''. Languages are a tool, not a person or some other living entity. If this reading of the opposition's rationale comes across as semantic, then my only interpretation of it is that "the site caters specifically to those who speak English natively, or that those speakers constitute the majority of the site's readerbase and userbase, so the template's name must be relative to that", which, ''nah''. [[:Category:User languages|There's plenty of ESL's using the site]], myself included, for whom certain subject names are not foreign, making the current title of the template subjective and inaccurate. On the other hand, "NIOL" is unequivocally objective. D) "NIOL" aligns with the "Names in other languages" heading this template is always preceded by. This is more of a bonus than a sound argument for the change, though. E) It is easier to type out than "Foreign names", which for a template that sees so much repeated use can be a boon.<br>A succinct and objective term, I struggle to see shortcomings of "NIOL" opposite of "foreign names". Indeed, don't fix what ain't broke, but in this case, this label is undeniably flawed and needs fixin'!
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| ===Oppose===
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| #{{User|Technetium}} It's foreign from the standpoint of the wiki, yes, given it's an English wiki. It doesn't have anything to do with the users themselves. Mostly, I just don't see the point of renaming a template so commonly used like this. It could mess up viewing older edits and people are already used to using the current name while editing. Now, the switch to JPN had these same issues, but given the original code was also a slur, it was worthwhile to do. This change doesn't feel the same way to me.
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| #{{User|EvieMaybe}} per Technetium. while i understand the phrasing concern, being a native Spanish speaker myself, the cost of implementation and change outweighs the benefits.
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| #{{User|Waluigi Time}} If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The wiki is written in English, so there's nothing inaccurate or alienating about calling names in other languages foreign names.
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| #{{User|Rykitu}} Per all.
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| #{{User|SGoW}} Per WT. Renaming a template used in thousands of pages on the wiki is a horrible idea.
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| #{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Waluigi Time. Even though, yes, we ''can'' bulk rename templates on pages (see: PorpleBot), this feels a lot like a case of "change for change's sake". Maybe as time goes on and the concept of a "Foreign names" section fades away into obscurity in lieu of the newer "Naming" section, it would make sense? But at least for right now, though, the template's current name is clear enough.
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| #{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all, especially TC and WT.
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| #{{User|LadySophie17}} As someone whose first language isn't English. I don't mind this. It's inconvenient to change, doesnt affect the actual look of the pages for the average reader and would break more things than it would "fix".
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| #{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Blinker}} Per all.
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|
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| ===Comments===
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| {{@|Technetium}} "Foreign names" can be a redirect. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:58, March 24, 2025 (EDT)
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| :We want to avoid using redirects when possible. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:59, March 24, 2025 (EDT)
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| something i forgot to add in my vote, but renaming a template makes it so older page versions using the previous template name don't function properly. that's also something to consider {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 17:36, March 24, 2025 (EDT)
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| I will defer to users whose first language is not English, but I think the current name is fine. I would be interested to hear from those users though if find the use of the word "foreign" to be exclusionary to them. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:26, March 24, 2025 (EDT)
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| ==Expanding the ^ parameter==
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| {{talk}}
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| would it possible to make it so that <code>^</code> works between variants of the same language? it's pretty common for say, European and American Spanish to use the same name, but with different capitalization. being able to write one definition for both would be way more elegant. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 11:34, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| :Can we also have it work with the "-R" field? It can be useful there, too. Not necessarily with the purpose of combining sections, but more to indicate that it's a repeat of above "R". [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:01, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| Hey, speaking of which, the ^ seems to glitch out on some articles, such as on [[Candle]]. ^ is supposed to combine with the above column, [[Candle#Names in other languages|but it just doesn't seem to do that on the aforementioned article]], and I don't know what has to be fixed. :/ {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:07, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| It's not possible to rowspan between different languages. But do we really need to treat NOA/NOE as separate languages? I would rather just use the main language parameter and note NOA/NOE in the Notes section. --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 13:37, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| ==C==
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| Does anyone else think implementing <code>C</code> for citations is a bit much? For example, [[Special:Diff/4802305|over here]]. The former was, as I recall, from an NPC: with "C" in place, it's unclear which is being cited, so I moved it next to the intended one to make it clearer. I just think the older way is easier to keep track of. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:31, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| :I completely disagree. Inserting the refs just after the name creates visual clutter that makes it more difficult to tell the name apart from the citation, whereas the C parameter allows putting the citations on a separate line which is much cleaner. And as long as you put the R/M/C parameters just after the foreign name, it's easy to tell to which name corresponds the citation. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 14:18, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| ::I agree with Jdtendo, but regarding your particular example, why not have マンホールの ふた and マンホールのフタ on different cells? The meaning rows even get merged together. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:23, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| :::I guess, but we have many more instances where the main/only difference is the writing system, and for simplicity, it just shares space in one box. The new citation system doesn't account for that. Also, unlike R, M, and N: C isn't actually its own cell. And there have been times where M and even R and N use citations, so there's that. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:38, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| ::::Oh wait! You meant that the ref should only apply to "マンホールのフタ" but not "マンホールの ふた"? In that case, I can assure you that putting the ref directly after the second name does not convey that the ref applies to the second name only; it still gives the impression that it applies to both names. As Blinker said, it would be better to split the names over two rows, and you can even use <code>^</code> for the M and N parameters of the second name so that they get merged by the template. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 14:45, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| :::::I didn't know <code>^</code> also worked for N. I added the in-game citation since I'm pretty sure it was just the one NPC. I guess that makes it look cleaner, though the point about references occasionally in other parameters still stands. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:20, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| I also agree with Jdtendo. I don't recall if anyone actually requested it, I just always assumed Porple added it voluntarily, but I found this parameter useful in making the code tidier. That said, I myself do use it mostly circumstantially, i.e. when the citation(s) is/are lengthy enough to cause some clutter. If the code used for the citation is a shortcut to another citation, like <code><nowiki><ref name="name"/></nowiki></code>, I don't find the C parameter to be needed, because the syntax is compact enough. (However, I won't revert or modify someone's edits if it doesn't suit this particular vision, unless I'm on autopilot and make a mistake.) {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:30, March 31, 2025 (EDT)
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| == Castilian Spanish ==
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|
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| A [https://youtu.be/lkd7qVrFi9w?si=D5kMGO1ETvsR2KkR Castilian Spanish dub of ''Donkey Kong Country''] was created, so can that be added here, please?
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| Also, on an unrelated note, I'm pretty sure it should be "Sinhala," and not "Sinhalese." {{User:Kaptain Skurvy/sig}} 14:21, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
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| :Isn't Castilian Spanish the same thing as European Spanish? {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 14:36, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
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| ::I'm not sure...I only considered them different because ''Donkey Kong Country'' had another [https://youtu.be/FgwYOUdzP7c?si=bLoegxTCAJm5pG0S separate European Spanish] dub, albeit majority of it being lost media, with only a few clips being online. {{User:Kaptain Skurvy/sig}} 14:47, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
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| :::(The video you linked to is in European Portuguese.) Either way, the two European/Castillan Spanish dubs were made in the same language for the same region, so it would make more sense to use <code>SpaE</code> for both dubs and differentiate them with a Notes parameter (<code>SpaEN</code>). {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 15:17, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
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| ::::Oh, alright. By the way, [https://youtu.be/j4hwAHoPNfI?si=daACD7mt6gwqcJNS this is the video I meant to link to]. The European Spanish dub doesn't seem to have a found title, so only the Castilian Spanish dub will be placed on the "Names in other languages" list of the page. {{User:Kaptain Skurvy/sig}} 15:24, April 5, 2025 (EDT)
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| == Move Sinhalese to Sinhala ==
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| I already mentioned it [[#Castilian Spanish|here]], but I'll ask again about how I think "Sinhalese" should be moved to "Sinhala." It's more common for "Sinhala" to be used in favor of "Sinhalese," so it should be moved to that. {{User:Kaptain Skurvy/sig}} 13:51, April 15, 2025 (EDT)
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