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| ==Names== | | ==Names== |
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| We should do something with the one from Yoshi's island as the Yoshi's Island DS Nintendo Strategy Guide calls it a Sunflower, which counts as a new name. Also, are these still called beanstalks in the Super Mario RPG remake? If they are, we may have to move this back because of the recent in-game name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, June 21, 2024 (EDT) | | We should do something with the one from Yoshi's island as the Yoshi's Island DS Nintendo Strategy Guide calls it a Sunflower, which counts as a new name. Also, are these still called beanstalks in the Super Mario RPG remake? If they are, we may have to move this back because of the recent in-game name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, June 21, 2024 (EDT) |
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| == Split and trim the vine article ==
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| {{TPP}}
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| This is a two-step proposal that aims to (A.) split two subjects from the Vine article and (B.) trim some of the remaining coverage in the Vine article. I elaborate why below.
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| This article seems to largely cover a recurring object in the ''Super Mario'' franchise and unrelated subjects that just happen to also be vines in a vague botanical sense. Maybe this made sense when the title of this article was "Beanstalk," but it does not make a lot of sense anymore. There are games where there are multiple vine objects in them that go by different names in official paratext, and there are subjects here that are not even vines in a generic sense. I do not think it is the best way to cover this material.
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| ;Step A. Split off "giant sunflower" and "hanging vine"
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| At a minimum, I see at least three major subjects in the article that would benefit from receiving dedicated coverage, namely:
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| #'''Static ladder-like vines that are often depicted with Piranha Plant-like heads'''. In some games they are already present in the environment, but they more typically pop out of blocks called "Vine Blocks." Major recurring object in the mainline ''Super Mario'' series. This should remain in the main Vine article.
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| #'''A giant sunflower that grows leaf-like platforms'''. It is a major recurring object in the ''Yoshi'' platformers. While mechanically a little similar because it usually appears after a [[Winged Cloud]] is struck and drops a seed, it is clearly not the same as the traditional ''Mario'' vine. Yoshi cannot climb this object, and it is not even a beanstalk or vine in a botanical sense, so its relationship to the other vines is more vaguely conceptual. This subject would be split off into a dedicated '''giant sunflower''' article.
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| #'''Vines suspended from a ceiling or tree that can be clung to'''. The player character can swing from them back and forth like a {{wp|rope swing}}. They are a major fixture in the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games, but they also have a presence in some mainline ''Super Mario'' games and are recognized under a slightly different name in the Japanese reference material for them. This object would be split off into a dedicated article titled '''hanging vine'''. It is often simply called a "vine" in English material, which makes sense in the ''Donkey Kong'' series where it is the only vine object in most games. However, this is less ideal for a wiki of our scope. The ''DKCR'' Prima Games guidebook refers to it as a "hanging vine" on page 98 and I think it would be a serviceable name for its article. If not, a name with an identifier like "'''vine (hanging)'''" would also be fine.
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| ;Step B. Trim remaining coverage
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| Even after the split of the two objects I mention above, I would like the remaining article to more strictly cover the ladder-like vines. This is not a generic subject, especially since it usually is depicted as a relative of Piranha Plants.
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| Other than the giant sunflower and hanging vine, the article includes subjects seemingly more related to the beanstalks you see in fairytales and I am not personally equipped to remove or split that info, so I will leave those alone for now. However, it also includes vines/beanstalks that are basically just background elements or environmental details that just contextualize the leaf-like platforms that ''can'' be stood on and interacted with, or separate objects that are given the aesthetic of a vine. I feel like the inclusion of these subjects delves into kitchen sink territory. So here how I recommend we remove the following information from the vine article:
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| #The climbable vine in ''Super Mario 64 DS''. It is really a [[pole]] and functions identically to one. I don't think it is notable enough to warrant coverage here.
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| #The giant beanstalk from ''New Super Mario Bros. U''. It is a cool visual detail, but it emerges to contextualize the [[Leaf Platform|Leaf]] and [[Bean Platform]]s in the game and I think this subject is better discussed in those articles, especially since this article has been renamed "vine." The information from ''Super Smash Bros.'' covers this same beanstalk and should also be removed.
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| #''The Adventure of Super Mario Bros. 3''. There seem to only appear in the distant background and are never an episode fixture.
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| #The ''Super Mario World'' television series. Vines are an important fixture in [[Party Line|one episode]] and given it looks and functions nothing like the ladder-like vines, I think they are better served on the "Party Line" article.
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| #The beanstalk from [[Bouncy Beanstalk Walk]]. This is another stalk that exists to contextualize leaf-like platforms.
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| #''Mario Party 3'' - yet another example of a non-interactive beanstalk aimed to explain the presence of leaf-like platforms.
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| Here is the final result if this proposal was to pass as described. I recommend comparing it with how the article is currently written.
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| <div class="contentbox mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"data-expandtext="Show info"data-collapsetext="Hide info">
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| {{columns|
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| '''Vine'''
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| #Super Mario Bros.
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| #Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
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| #Super Mario Bros. 2
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| #Super Mario Bros. 3
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| #Super Mario World
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| #New Super Mario Bros.
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| #New Super Mario Bros. Wii
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| #New Super Mario Bros. 2
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| #New Super Mario Bros. U
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| #Super Mario Maker
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| #Super Mario Odyssey
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| #Super Mario Maker 2
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| #Super Mario Bros. Wonder
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| #Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!
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| #The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!
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| #Hotel Mario
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| #Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
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| #Paper Mario
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| #Mario Kart: Super Circuit
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| #Mario Kart Tour
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| #Mario Party 9
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| #Minecraft
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| #Luigi's Mansion 3 (Ladder Vine)
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| '''Giant sunflower'''
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| #Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
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| #Yoshi's Island DS
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| #Yoshi's Woolly World
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| '''Hanging vine'''
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| #Donkey Kong Jr.
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| #Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
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| #Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
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| #Donkey Kong Country Returns
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| #Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
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| #New Super Mario Bros.
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| #Super Mario Galaxy
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| #New Super Mario Bros. Wii
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| #New Super Mario Bros. 2
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| #New Super Mario Bros. U
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| #Luigi's Mansion 3
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| }}
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| </div>
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| I offer three options.
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| #'''Support: split off the giant sunflower and hanging vine, and trim remaining coverage'''
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| #'''Support: only split off the giant sunflower and hanging vine'''
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| #'''Oppose: the article is fine with its current scope'''
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': Dec. 14th, 2024, 23:59 GMT
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| ===Support: split and trim===
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| #{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
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| ===Support: split only===
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| #{{User|Pseudo}} This is a long time coming, I'd say - the ''Super Mario'' platformers' typically Piranha Plant-like beanstalk vines are very much distinct from the hanging vines of the ''Donkey Kong'' franchise and the like. That said, I do think that covering these additional, thematically related beanstalk vines on this article does make sense, since they are presented in a similar context to the ordinary ones, more or less.
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| #{{User|EvieMaybe}} while i definitely agree with giving the Tarzan vines and big sunflowers their own page, i think most of the stuff you propose we trim is definitely a conceptual evolution on SMB1's vines, even if they function differently. this has also made me realize we don't mention [[Leaf Leap]] anywhere in this article
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| #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
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| #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} The fact that the vines you climb and the vines you swing on are covered on the same article really irks me.
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| #{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all. Let's propagate this article!
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| #{{User|Arend}} Even back when this was still called "beanstalk", I don't really understand why the Yoshi's Island sunflowers are being covered here. Splitting at the very least seems to be crucial.
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| ===Oppose: fine as is===
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| ===Comments on split and trim===
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| I would like to know if Super Mario RPG Remake calls this a Beanstalk or not. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 07:27, November 30, 2024 (EST)
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| :...Both? [https://youtu.be/DEJgwpuOZKs?t=1215 When the beanstalk at the end of Bean Valley grows out of the Brick Block], the in-game text still refers to it as a "magical beanstalk", [https://youtu.be/gn1KRjo2c1A?t=2014 like in the original], and the [https://youtu.be/DEJgwpuOZKs?t=1226 subsequent area] is even named "[[Beanstalk (Super Mario RPG)|Beanstalk]]", too. However, [https://youtu.be/DEJgwpuOZKs?t=1298 the note at the foot of the first vine] calls all of these vines in the Beanstalk area "vines" (...which is [https://youtu.be/gn1KRjo2c1A?t=2072 also like in the original]). {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:37, December 1, 2024 (EST)
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| Out of curiosity, for the folks who voted for "split only," are there any individual subjects I listed above that you would feel comfortable with seeing removed? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:06, November 30, 2024 (EST)
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