Talk:Vine

Vine

I guess this is just the same as Vine? / Time Q 10:39, 22 August 2007 (EDT)

I Think so. Xzelion^ETC

Um?

Yeah. Um, where did the second image come from? CrystalYoshi 14:30, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

Piranha Plant?

I'm wondering if the beanstalk in SMB3 - NSMBW is a type of piranha plant? (Not hurting Mario/Luigi/Yvan & Wolley)

The biggest Spike ever!!!

Vine

Should this article be moved to Vine, seeing as it's the most recent in-game name? TheDarkStar 13:53, September 15, 2019 (EDT)

Probably. Same may go for moving "Warp Pipe" to "Pipe", which is also more common and recent. LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:11, September 16, 2019 (EDT)

For what it's worth (if anything), I second both. AgentMuffin (talk) 01:35, September 17, 2019 (EDT)

I still believe the article should be moved per the "If a subject's name has changed over time" step of Project:Naming. The object is called Vine in the Super Mario Maker games, suggesting that this is the current official name of the object from the 2D platformers. The only newer game that the article relates to this Vine is Luigi's Mansion 3, and I haven't found an official name for this appearance.
Although I think this is a fairly clear-cut rename, and I've supported it here and raised the issue multiple times on the Discord server since September 2019, nothing has come of it. I recall no dissent, but no action, either, so I've become nervous to seek further consensus. If there was an expectation that someone steps up and moves the article themself, I don't have the permissions for this: the target page has revision history from 2007, before it became a redirect to this article.
I'm sorry if I come off as frustrated—I hold no ill will toward any party involved in this situation—but is there anything else I should do to try to get this discussed further or resolved at last? AgentMuffin (talk) 05:34, March 14, 2021 (EDT)

If a discussion isn't gaining traction after a while you can always start a proposal about it, those typically get more attention than talk page discussions do. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 14:49, March 14, 2021 (EDT)

Should probably be moved to "Vine (climbable)" to allow for a page on swinging vines as well (which are currently in a weird place on the rope page I believe). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:45, March 14, 2021 (EDT)

Well the swinging ones are technically climbable as well, but the beanstalk vine should take priority over it anyway. Agreed on the "Beanstalk"->"Vine" move; I think no one bothered to do it yet because it's a big page with many links, but if more recent games have been using that name, it should be moved. Mario JC 00:16, March 15, 2021 (EDT)

While the changes are being enacted, I'm also going to recommend changing the earliest appearance to Donkey Kong Jr., especially if the swinging vines are going to be restructured here. Both the English and Japanese versions refer to them as vines as well (though sometimes the metallic objects in later levels are called chains), and they need coverage somewhere. They're even climbed a similar way in the original Super Mario Bros., as Mario/Luigi grabs the vine from the side like Donkey Kong Jr. did. They don't always come from blocks, after all. LinkTheLefty (talk) 08:32, October 27, 2021 (EDT)

Or, since the rope article seems to cover a very similar type of object under the "Donkey Kong (Game Boy)" section, would it be better to cover the Donkey Kong Jr. vines and chains in that article instead? LinkTheLefty (talk) 12:12, November 12, 2021 (EST)

Now that the article has been renamed, I think it is untenable for the vines in the Donkey Kong series to be excluded.--Platform (talk) 05:48, November 29, 2024 (EST)

Vine V3

If they call them vines in SMM and SMM2, shouldn't we rename this to vine? Besides, the vines in SMO are CLEARLY not beanstalks, because they're grown from what appears to be some sort of nut or seed, not a Bean. The same thing going on with Pipe. In my (Clearly insignificant) opinion, the Super Mario Maker series has told us what Nintendo wants us to call stuff in the Super Mario series. 106.69.172.127 03:57, May 25, 2023 (EDT)

Late reply, but I definitely agree. Worth considering a proposal for this. BubbleRevolution (talk) 13:40, January 2, 2024 (EST)

Finally move Beanstalk to Vine

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

move 14-0
It's basically common knowledge at this point that these leafy, climbable stalks are almost always referred to as "vines" in modern Mario games; their names in Super Mario Maker and its sequel have basically cemented that. As the discussions above show, people have been discussing the idea of moving this article for almost five years now, with no dissent that I'm aware of. ...Though, since this is moving an article for a relatively widespread feature of the Mario franchise, it is probably best we vote on it in a proposal.

Proposer: DrippingYellow (talk)
Deadline: April 11, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. DrippingYellow (talk) Per progrowsal.
2. Blinker (talk) Per proposal. Vinally.
3. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per proposal. It's about time we raise this name into the clouds.
4. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) Per proposal. I don't have a pun, though... :(
5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all. This is way overdue.
6. Nintendo101 (talk) Overdue. (Perhaps moving "warp pipe" to "pipe" can be considered next.)
7. Tails777 (talk) This sounds like a vine idea (yes, I know Blinker already used a similar pun). Per proposal.
8. Hewer (talk) This just leafs me confused how it took so long for a proposal about this to sprout.
9. Scrooge200 (talk) "Vine" is the most recent name, I think the Maker games used it too? Per proposal.
10. Archivist Toadette (talk) "Vine" is indeed most recent. I mean, if both main Super Mario Maker games use the name...
11. ThePowerPlayer (talk) I'm surprised this hasn't been done yet.
12. FanOfYoshi (talk) Considering Berry...
13. JanMisali (talk) Per all. It's about time!
14. Arend (talk) Vine by me- wait...

Comments

Can it be "vine (beanstalk)" or "vine (climbable)" to properly exclude the swinging vines (which are currently mostly awkwardly left on the rope article)? Or perhaps we should treat upwards and hanging vines as the same object, since some items on the page are currently a hanging-but-not-swingy type? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:01, March 28, 2024 (EDT)

From what I have observed, I thought folks have already been directing all mentions of swinging vine objects to "Beanstalk". - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:46, March 28, 2024 (EDT)

BTW, would we have to split the Sunflower from Yoshi's Island from this once the article's renamed? It's only been named a beanstalk in the 1995 Player's Guide, but has been called a flower or sunflower in more recent games, doesn't really look like a Vine, nor can be interacted as such (Yoshi has to hop from leaf to leaf as they were separate platforms, instead of climbing on the stalk as if it were a ladder). And what about that giant Beanstalk from New Super Mario Bros. U (you know the one), or the Beanstalk from Yoshi's New Island (the one from Bouncy Beanstalk Walk, that is)? rend (talk) (edits) 12:31, April 6, 2024 (EDT)

Names

We should do something with the one from Yoshi's island as the Yoshi's Island DS Nintendo Strategy Guide calls it a Sunflower, which counts as a new name. Also, are these still called beanstalks in the Super Mario RPG remake? If they are, we may have to move this back because of the recent in-game name. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 08:58, June 21, 2024 (EDT)

Split and trim the vine article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

Split only 1-7-0

This is a two-step proposal that aims to (A.) split two subjects from the Vine article and (B.) trim some of the remaining coverage in the Vine article. I elaborate why below.

This article seems to largely cover a recurring object in the Super Mario franchise and unrelated subjects that just happen to also be vines in a vague botanical sense. Maybe this made sense when the title of this article was "Beanstalk," but it does not make a lot of sense anymore. There are games where there are multiple vine objects in them that go by different names in official paratext, and there are subjects here that are not even vines in a generic sense. I do not think it is the best way to cover this material.

Step A. Split off "giant sunflower" and "hanging vine"

At a minimum, I see at least three major subjects in the article that would benefit from receiving dedicated coverage, namely:

1. Static ladder-like vines that are often depicted with Piranha Plant-like heads. In some games they are already present in the environment, but they more typically pop out of blocks called "Vine Blocks." Major recurring object in the mainline Super Mario series. This should remain in the main Vine article.
2. A giant sunflower that grows leaf-like platforms. It is a major recurring object in the Yoshi platformers. While mechanically a little similar because it usually appears after a Winged Cloud is struck and drops a seed, it is clearly not the same as the traditional Mario vine. Yoshi cannot climb this object, and it is not even a beanstalk or vine in a botanical sense, so its relationship to the other vines is more vaguely conceptual. This subject would be split off into a dedicated giant sunflower article.
3. Vines suspended from a ceiling or tree that can be clung to. The player character can swing from them back and forth like a rope swing. They are a major fixture in the Donkey Kong Country games, but they also have a presence in some mainline Super Mario games and are recognized under a slightly different name in the Japanese reference material for them. This object would be split off into a dedicated article titled hanging vine. It is often simply called a "vine" in English material, which makes sense in the Donkey Kong series where it is the only vine object in most games. However, this is less ideal for a wiki of our scope. The DKCR Prima Games guidebook refers to it as a "hanging vine" on page 98 and I think it would be a serviceable name for its article. If not, a name with an identifier like "vine (hanging)" would also be fine.

Step B. Trim remaining coverage

Even after the split of the two objects I mention above, I would like the remaining article to more strictly cover the ladder-like vines. This is not a generic subject, especially since it usually is depicted as a relative of Piranha Plants. Other than the giant sunflower and hanging vine, the article includes subjects seemingly more related to the beanstalks you see in fairytales and I am not personally equipped to remove or split that info, so I will leave those alone for now. However, it also includes vines/beanstalks that are basically just background elements or environmental details that just contextualize the leaf-like platforms that can be stood on and interacted with, or separate objects that are given the aesthetic of a vine. I feel like the inclusion of these subjects delves into kitchen sink territory. So here how I recommend we remove the following information from the vine article:

1. The climbable vine in Super Mario 64 DS. It is really a pole and functions identically to one. I don't think it is notable enough to warrant coverage here.
2. The giant beanstalk from New Super Mario Bros. U. It is a cool visual detail, but it emerges to contextualize the Leaf and Bean Platforms in the game and I think this subject is better discussed in those articles, especially since this article has been renamed "vine." The information from Super Smash Bros. covers this same beanstalk and should also be removed.
3. The Adventure of Super Mario Bros. 3. There seem to only appear in the distant background and are never an episode fixture.
4. The Super Mario World television series. Vines are an important fixture in one episode and given it looks and functions nothing like the ladder-like vines, I think they are better served on the "Party Line" article.
5. The beanstalk from Bouncy Beanstalk Walk. This is another stalk that exists to contextualize leaf-like platforms.
6. Mario Party 3 - yet another example of a non-interactive beanstalk aimed to explain the presence of leaf-like platforms.

Here is the final result if this proposal was to pass as described. I recommend comparing it with how the article is currently written.

Vine

1. Super Mario Bros.
2. Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
3. Super Mario Bros. 2
4. Super Mario Bros. 3
5. Super Mario World
6. New Super Mario Bros.
7. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
8. New Super Mario Bros. 2
9. New Super Mario Bros. U
10. Super Mario Maker
11. Super Mario Odyssey
12. Super Mario Maker 2
13. Super Mario Bros. Wonder
14. Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyūshutsu Dai Sakusen!
15. The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!
16. Hotel Mario
17. Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
18. Paper Mario
19. Mario Kart: Super Circuit
20. Mario Kart Tour
21. Mario Party 9
22. Minecraft
23. Luigi's Mansion 3 (Ladder Vine)

Giant sunflower

1. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
2. Yoshi's Island DS
3. Yoshi's Woolly World

Hanging vine

1. Donkey Kong Jr.
2. Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
3. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
4. Donkey Kong Country Returns
5. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
6. New Super Mario Bros.
7. Super Mario Galaxy
8. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
9. New Super Mario Bros. 2
10. New Super Mario Bros. U
11. Luigi's Mansion 3

I offer three options.

1. Support: split off the giant sunflower and hanging vine, and trim remaining coverage
2. Support: only split off the giant sunflower and hanging vine
3. Oppose: the article is fine with its current scope

Proposer: Nintendo101 (talk)
Deadline: Dec. 14th, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support: split and trim

1. Nintendo101 (talk) Per proposal.

Support: split only

1. Pseudo (talk) This is a long time coming, I'd say - the Super Mario platformers' typically Piranha Plant-like beanstalk vines are very much distinct from the hanging vines of the Donkey Kong franchise and the like. That said, I do think that covering these additional, thematically related beanstalk vines on this article does make sense, since they are presented in a similar context to the ordinary ones, more or less.
2. EvieMaybe (talk) while i definitely agree with giving the Tarzan vines and big sunflowers their own page, i think most of the stuff you propose we trim is definitely a conceptual evolution on SMB1's vines, even if they function differently. this has also made me realize we don't mention Leaf Leap anywhere in this article
3. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.
4. ThePowerPlayer (talk) The fact that the vines you climb and the vines you swing on are covered on the same article really irks me.
5. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all. Let's propagate this article!
6. Arend (talk) Even back when this was still called "beanstalk", I don't really understand why the Yoshi's Island sunflowers are being covered here. Splitting at the very least seems to be crucial.
7. Rykitu (talk) Per all.

Comments on split and trim

I would like to know if Super Mario RPG Remake calls this a Beanstalk or not. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:27, November 30, 2024 (EST)

...Both? When the beanstalk at the end of Bean Valley grows out of the Brick Block, the in-game text still refers to it as a "magical beanstalk", like in the original, and the subsequent area is even named "Beanstalk", too. However, the note at the foot of the first vine calls all of these vines in the Beanstalk area "vines" (...which is also like in the original). rend (talk) (edits) 17:37, December 1, 2024 (EST)

Out of curiosity, for the folks who voted for "split only," are there any individual subjects I listed above that you would feel comfortable with seeing removed? - Nintendo101 (talk) 15:06, November 30, 2024 (EST)