Editing Talk:Red Balloon

== Rename to Red Balloon and split the variants that grant additional extra lives ==

{{TPP}}
I think it's about time we address the organizational mess that is this article. First of all, "Red Balloon" has been the subject's most recent name for nearly a decade, so I propose we rename this article to Red Balloon. "But what about the green and blue balloons in the original trilogy?" you might ask. Well, I'd say we're better off splitting those into their own articles. There ''are'' several precedents for this after all ([[1-Up Mushroom]]s and [[3-Up Moon]]s, as well as [[10-Coin|some coins]] [[30-Coin|that grant]] [[50-Coin|different coin values]]). Really, I think those links speak for themselves, and that this page needs an organizational overhaul.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' July 30, 2019, 23:59 GMT

===Do both actions===
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Makes sense to me.
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} My personal preference.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} If it cones with an identifier, sure. I also support splitting the other.
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all.

===Just rename to Red Balloon===

===Just split out the other extra life variants===

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
:Would this take priority over the other [[Red Balloon]]? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:34, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
::Yes. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 13:59, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
:::I'd prefer it to come with an identifier, since i don't think this should have priority over the other Red Balloon. Is it a proper name? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:01, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
::::Pretty sure in-game names take priority over guide names. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 14:03, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
:::::If there is an inconsistency between the game and '''its''' guide, right? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:05, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
::::::That doesn't matter. In-game names take priority over guide names, so the balloon that gives extra lives doesn't need an identifier, while the balloon Yoshi flies around on in two levels does. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 14:08, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::Note that both the split green and blue balloons should share identifiers with the current [[Blue Balloon]] and [[Green Balloon]] articles, as they are considerably more important than our current Red Balloon article. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 14:20, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::@Doomhiker What do you mean by that? {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:09, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::I mean that when the green and blue balloons are split both the new and old articles with the same names should both get (different) identifiers, unlike with the Red Balloons as the modern and old blue and green balloons are close in importance. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 15:18, July 16, 2019 (EDT)

Would the old green'n'blue be merged with he current ones, as despite the different purposes they have the same "chromatic arrangement" system? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:20, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
:I think they should; I'd prefer that over splitting them to "Extra Life Balloon (blue/green)". Items change effects sometimes - [[Blue Coin]]s went from being worth the same as a regular coin in ''SMB3'' to being worth 5 coins in ''SM64'' to being a finite collectible in ''Sunshine'' - so I don't think the changed effect in the later games is a problem. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:23, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
::I now agree. Plus they are in the same series, too. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 21:11, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Rename to Red Balloon and split the variants that grant additional extra lives ==
-{{settled TPP}}
-{{proposal outcome|green|Rename and merge the green and blue ones 3-0-0-5-0}}
+{{TPP}}
 I think it's about time we address the organizational mess that is this article. First of all, "Red Balloon" has been the subject's most recent name for nearly a decade, so I propose we rename this article to Red Balloon. "But what about the green and blue balloons in the original trilogy?" you might ask. Well, I'd say we're better off splitting those into their own articles. There ''are'' several precedents for this after all ([[1-Up Mushroom]]s and [[3-Up Moon]]s, as well as [[10-Coin|some coins]] [[30-Coin|that grant]] [[50-Coin|different coin values]]). Really, I think those links speak for themselves, and that this page needs an organizational overhaul.
@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 #{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
 #{{User|Waluigi Time}} Makes sense to me.
+#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} My personal preference.
 #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} If it cones with an identifier, sure. I also support splitting the other.
-<s>#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} My personal preference.</s>
+#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all.
 ===Just rename to Red Balloon===
 ===Just split out the other extra life variants===
-===Rename this page and merge the other variants into Blue Balloon and Green Balloon, respectively===
-#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} I'm fine with this option too.
-#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per the comments below.
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Yes, per below.
-#{{User|7feetunder}} Per others' comments and my own.
-#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} This works better.
 ===Do nothing===
@@ Line 40: / Line 34: @@
 :I think they should; I'd prefer that over splitting them to "Extra Life Balloon (blue/green)". Items change effects sometimes - [[Blue Coin]]s went from being worth the same as a regular coin in ''SMB3'' to being worth 5 coins in ''SM64'' to being a finite collectible in ''Sunshine'' - so I don't think the changed effect in the later games is a problem. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:23, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
 ::I now agree. Plus they are in the same series, too. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 21:11, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
-:::I agree with merging the two to the existing Green Balloon and Blue Balloon articles, as they are named as such on page 15 of the ''Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble'' Player's Guide, under '''Extra Life Balloons''': "''Extra Life Balloons come in three great flavors. Red Balloons give you one extra life, Green Balloons give you two and the elusive Blue Balloons give you three extra lives!''" This example also demonstrates that Red Balloon isn't so much a "rename" of Extra Life Balloon but rather that Extra Life Balloon originally referred to all three types of balloons before they were repurposed (note that Cranky Kong's Shop sells Red Balloons in bundles). So I'd maybe also keep the Extra Life Balloon article separately, but shorten it to be about balloons as a whole from the original ''Country'' and ''Land'' trilogies or as a disambiguation page. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be an option in this proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:45, July 17, 2019 (EDT)
-== Are Green and Blue Balloons variants or related? ==
-{{talk}}
-Well, so this has a muddy conceptual history. But we're setting items as being variants of items in their infoboxes so we have to handle this eventually. Should Green Balloon and Blue Balloon be variants of Red Balloon or related to Red Balloon?
-In the original trilogy, the Green Balloon is two extra lives and the Blue balloon is three extra lives. But Returns and Tropical Freeze removed the concept of one item granting multiple lives, and created new mechanics for both items. Green Balloons draw partially from the idea of Red Balloons being extra lives because they lift Donkey Kong back into the stage, by lifting Dpnkey Kong out of a pit before he would use a Red Balloon. Blue Balloons drift farther away from the premise. They still protect Donkey Kong from a hazard that would cost a Red Balloon, but don't have a lifting action at all. Instead they are a consumable air supply for when he is out of air while underwater and do not as neatly parallel using a Red Balloon.
-I'm of the opinion that Green Balloons are variants and Blue Balloons are related, with their original status form the SNES trilogy not moving the needle on Blue Balloon. It would be nice to be able to say a Blue Balloon is both a variant and related depending on game but infoboxes are kind of tight on space.
-{{unsigned|Salmancer}}
-I checked the articles for Green and Blue Balloons and they say these balloons are identical to Red ones, just in different colors. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:04, January 29, 2025 (EST)