Talk:Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions bestiary

Jojora's Friend

Is there any reason both forms of Jojora's friend are listed in the same section? And why Chomp Bro's weakened version, Mechakoopa's damaged version, and a few versions of Fawful aren't listed at all? The edit summaries claim this is basically complete, but as of this writing, it does not seem to be. Also, how are we going to deal with the Minion Quest enemies and troops? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2017 (EST)

Well because fawful flying or being on the ground doesn't appear to change his stats. Same with other enemies with multi forms, they don't appear to have different stats, so the change is purely cosmetic and doesn't warrent being seperated.-- 22:46, 19 December 2017 (EST)

And for minions quest, idk. I was going to do it but it doesn't work quite the same as other rpgs, so I don't know if they even need a bestiary, or if they even work the same. Shrug. -- 22:47, 19 December 2017 (EST)

But the entire point of the pink-haired version is to up attack and allow poison....I'm calling foul. Also, what on Earth happened to your grammar? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2017 (EST)

It's a mobile edit. Autocorrect happens. I understand there's supposed to be a difference between the yellow and pink haired versions, but the stats that were input to the bestiary did not appear to have any difference.-- 02:44, 20 December 2017 (EST)

What are the sources? Maybe they were gathered wrong? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:48, 20 December 2017 (EST)

Ask Madbird, they are apparently the one responsible for the stats.-- 03:08, 20 December 2017 (EST)

Also, I've started playing, and have made it to right before the Wiggler fight. When the bosses are damaged enough, they go into a "pinch mode," where they glow and look angry and seem to be stronger and more frantic. I know Birdo had this originally, but did the others? Also, there should be sprites for tiny-armed Queen Bean and Headgear-less non-mutated Fawful, if only within the same boxes as the others. (If you can't tell, I missed out on the original Superstar Saga.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:23, 21 December 2017 (EST)

Having gone further, it seems basically all bosses except Wiggler and Chuckolator (who has a weak phase instead) have this "pinch mode," which does indeed involve different stats, as well as flashing colors and occasionally a different idle (notably, Popple's resembles his original "mad" idle). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:36, 25 December 2017 (EST)

Instead of making more entries for these bosses pinch mode, we can add those stats into the same entry in parentheses or something. We can add a note about the punch mode stats into the template.-- 22:56, 25 December 2017 (EST)

That's kinda what I want. I want both animations next to eachother in one box, to avoid needless clutter regarding size for lists like Fawful and Popple, while still getting all info across. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:59, 25 December 2017 (EST)

I disagree with having both together. Flashing and looking angry isn't a neccessary sprite to include beside the idle; It's pretty much just just a different animation. We also won't include gifs in the bestiary, but we will on the enemy pages. However I don't think every enemy has an idle gif uploaded yet.- 23:11, 25 December 2017 (EST)

We need to be as complete as possible. If there's two idle animations available, we need to represent both. Particularly with Fawful, as he has his Headgear phase and Headgear-less phase, and later the grounded and airborne versions for the weird antennae version. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:14, 25 December 2017 (EST)

Then present them on the enemy page in the article, not the bestiary. This isn't about completeness, it's about where it belongs.-- 23:26, 25 December 2017 (EST)

I'm not saying as in animations for the bestiary, just a still frame depicting each, like what was done with the Jojora's Friend one. They'd be replaced with the animations for the specific pages when transcluded. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:43, 25 December 2017 (EST)

I know. That's what I was talking about, not the animations.-- 02:28, 26 December 2017 (EST)

Well if it can be done with Jojora's Friend, it can be done with all of them, as the situation seems to be about the same. Being arbitrary is bad. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 03:03, 26 December 2017 (EST)

That's where you're wrong. The situation with Jojora's Friend is that we can't only show the pink or only the yellow, much like the four names. With the spiky cheep I'm not sure what to do because it's default sprite doesn't convey that its spiked. With fawful, the only thing that changes between flying and not flying is which attacks you can use on him, correct? Maybe which visual attack he uses? I think the bloopers in color splash would sometimes be floating higher than other bloopers, which meant some attacks couldn't be used, but we didn't use a second sprite for them being higher up. Fawful does not require both sprites, just the flying one. The grounded one can be on his page. Fawfuls second battle, from what I can tell the airborne is just another of his moves, where he jumps up and stays in the air for like a turn? Same arguement here, and use the grounded sprite. Adding the pinch mode sprites would be as pointless as adding yellow wiggler sprites to every bestiary entry of an angry red wiggler. Leave it for the article.-- 04:38, 26 December 2017 (EST)

"The only difference is the attack is different." The presence of the Headgear on Fawful is already a significant enough difference, as it is the exact same amount of difference as the different hair color on Jojora's Friend, if not even more so. Saying that that's merely a change in position is asinine. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:11, 27 December 2017 (EST)

Okay then, forget all that. One sprite only per template. No alternate forms like with or without headhear, or the hair color. The importance of the bestiary isn't to document these two different sprites, it's about the stats! The images just need to best represent the enemy. We don't even use the sprites for PMTTYD! I repeat, put the extra sprites on the enemy's page. Jojoara's friend will just use the yellow one, cause that's how she appears in the overworld. Use fateful with headgear cause he starts off the battle that way and ends that way. Use the cheek cheep with the spikes only cause that best represents the creature. The smuggler segments honestly doenst matter much if you keep all four or just one. Take your pick. This goes for the other bestiaries, notably bowser's inside story.-- 02:17, 27 December 2017 (EST)

OK.....you on mobile there? Anyways, as long as the pages get full idle exposure, that's fine. I just want all idles to appear on templates somewhere. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 02:49, 27 December 2017 (EST)

Alright, I just played through the whole thing, and I can confirm that the pink-haired version has different stats than the yellow-haired version, because I kept getting damaged during that particular fight, and the damage was different between the two. Also, both their colors have flashing forms, while Birdo can have up to four versions, depending on whether she's chipped of enough health quick enough or Popple is defeated first, as they seem to stack. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:26, 31 December 2017 (EST)

Cackletta's Heart

Can anybody find an unobstructed sprite of Cackletta's heart when it is unexposed? Fawful (talk) 13:41, 27 June 2018 (EDT)

Page about done

I'd guess i added about everything to the page there is, changed the template to match the info, added some notes. I also have all the Enemy Stats of Bowser Inside Story + Bowser Jr. Journey if anyone would be interested to let me create that page. Zapplang (talk) 01:49, 25 February 2019 (CET)