Editing Talk:Hammer

This page should really be merged with [[Hammer]]. A Hammer is a weapon and all its various functions can be explained on that page. This page is really unnecessary. Why create two pages when one longer page could do a better job explaining the info? We need to follow the policy established in [[MarioWiki: Once and Only Once]]. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
:I agree, and I have performed the sysop actions and merged the article. For the record users who have a similar view for a different set of articles should add {{tem|merge to}} and {{tem|merge from}}. <span style="font-family:Kunstler Script; color:#006633;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Wayoshi|W]]'''ayoshi</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Wayoshi|T]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Wayoshi|C]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Emailuser/Wayoshi|@]] )</small> <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php/Special:Random http://www.mariowiki.com/images/2/24/Wayoshisig.png]</span> 15:08, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

==Why==
I would have added the info to the article, but I thought it was more of an item than an attack. If this is considered both, we might as well add the Bros. Items from MLPiT or the items from the Mario Kart Series. Can they also be considered both? Remember that Special Moves can mean;The unique attacks, actions, abilities, spells, and techniques of the Marioverse;as said in the introduction of Special Moves. The Bros. Items are technically attacks in the form of items. 

I understand that Mario Kart Series items are not really considered an attack, ability, spell, or techniques. It is really considered a weapon using an item or a vessel in which the attack or ability is used. However some moves share the same name with it's item. I think we should alter the name ''Special Moves'' to something even more universal. Universal enough to include the items stated above. But what? This is a dilemma that needs solving. For now I'll delay completing the ''Hammer'' article, until this is resolved.-[[User Talk:Knife|Spike]][[Image:Spike Shield Badge PM.png]]

:Items should remain as items and special moves should remain as special moves. What you do with an item is technically an action, but it all stems from the item itself. That's why we have item pages, to tell what the item is and what you can do with it (i.e., what actions can be performed with such an item). As such, Bros. Items and Mario Kart items should be listed as items, and if they are included in the Special Moves page they should be removed. These items should be included on the items page, but under a special category such as Bros. Items or Mario Kart items. A Hammer is an item that can perform certain functions, just like any other item. Bros. Items are items that are used for certain functions. Special Moves stem from the characters own physical or magical abilities. Mario can Jump, Geno can use Geno Whirl, etc. They are not dependant on items for the source of their power; their source is the characters themselves. A move that has the same name as an item, but does not originate from the item itself should be given the title Name (Special Move) while the item should be named Name (Item). Hammer attacks are generated by the Hammer, so any info about Hammers and their effects should be included in this article. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

==Wario Land: Shake It! & Super Mario World & Game & Watch Gallery 4==
In [[Wario Land: Shake It!]], When Wario is going to try to break the globe, he uses a hammer. When Mario destroys Lemmy Koopa's castle in [[Super Mario World]], he also uses a hammer. In [[Game & Watch Gallery 4]], in Fire Attack, Wario uses a hammer. Should not that be mentioned? [[User:Magma]]

==Lucky Hammer==
Given the new Lucky Hammer [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSpIjzdV8VE&t=537s (ラッキーハンマー)] name, are we fishin' a split? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:44, December 14, 2023 (EST)
:Seems straightforward enough. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:50, December 15, 2023 (EST)
::Yeah in my opinion it seems like the best thing to do since they have different names now and they have different effects. [[User:Annalisa10|Annalisa10]] ([[User talk:Annalisa10|talk]]) 15:17, December 31, 2023 (EST)

== Move vs Item ==

{{talk}}
Given the recent support of a "not merging attacks and items" logic, I want to point out that, in some games, the move Hammer and the item Hammer are two different things. In the first two Paper Mario games, for example, you have three different hammer items (Hammer, Super Hammer, Ultra Hammer), and a whole bunch of Hammer based attacks (Hammer, Hammer Throw, Quake Hammer etc.), and the basic Hammer item can do most of the attacks, and all hammers can do the basic Hammer attack. This is also a thing in Superstar Saga, which has three different hammer items (Hammer, Super Hammer, Ultra Hammer) and three-ish hammer attacks (Hammer, Chopper Bros., Knockback Bros.), and again, any of these attacks can be used with any hammer. Covering both uses of "Hammer" in the same page doesn't seem right (this isn't an issue with the jumps, since the Boots and Jump are clearly separate, usually). [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:50, December 15, 2023 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-This page should really be merged with [[Hammer]]. A Hammer is a weapon and all its various functions can be explained on that page. This page is really unnecessary. Why create two pages when one longer page could do a better job explaining the info? We need to follow the policy established in [[MarioWiki:Once and only once]]. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
+This page should really be merged with [[Hammer]]. A Hammer is a weapon and all its various functions can be explained on that page. This page is really unnecessary. Why create two pages when one longer page could do a better job explaining the info? We need to follow the policy established in [[MarioWiki: Once and Only Once]]. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]
 :I agree, and I have performed the sysop actions and merged the article. For the record users who have a similar view for a different set of articles should add {{tem|merge to}} and {{tem|merge from}}. <span style="font-family:Kunstler Script; color:#006633;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Wayoshi|W]]'''ayoshi</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Wayoshi|T]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Wayoshi|C]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Emailuser/Wayoshi|@]] )</small> <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php/Special:Random http://www.mariowiki.com/images/2/24/Wayoshisig.png]</span> 15:08, 12 October 2006 (EDT)
@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 {{talk}}
 Given the recent support of a "not merging attacks and items" logic, I want to point out that, in some games, the move Hammer and the item Hammer are two different things. In the first two Paper Mario games, for example, you have three different hammer items (Hammer, Super Hammer, Ultra Hammer), and a whole bunch of Hammer based attacks (Hammer, Hammer Throw, Quake Hammer etc.), and the basic Hammer item can do most of the attacks, and all hammers can do the basic Hammer attack. This is also a thing in Superstar Saga, which has three different hammer items (Hammer, Super Hammer, Ultra Hammer) and three-ish hammer attacks (Hammer, Chopper Bros., Knockback Bros.), and again, any of these attacks can be used with any hammer. Covering both uses of "Hammer" in the same page doesn't seem right (this isn't an issue with the jumps, since the Boots and Jump are clearly separate, usually). [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:50, December 15, 2023 (EST)
-== Split... somehow? ==
-There are a lot of hammers on this article, ranging from powerups, to thrown projectiles, to fixed stage hazards. They're surely all called "Hammer", but I struggle to believe that the powerup hammer from Donkey Kong, the ones thrown by Hammer Bros, the rock-breaking item in SMB3, and the large swinging mallets in Yoshi's New Island, are the same object in any valuable capacity. Various types of non-synonymous hammers frequently appear in the same game as each other. A silly image that comes to mind is Hammer Bros in SMB Special throwing powerup hammers. Should something be done about this? [[User:WilliamFrog|WilliamFrog]] ([[User talk:WilliamFrog|talk]]) 18:53, November 28, 2024 (EST)