Talk:Piranha Plant

What Do You Think?

First off wow this page dosent have a talk page yet... wow. But anyways do you guys think this article deserves to be nominated as a featured article?Δ ΔΔ Δ

Nominate it if you want to, it's your choice. SJ derp :P

Why does it say that Petey Piranha is the only pirnha plant with teeth? The teeth is what makes a piranha plant a pirnha plant. MisterJaffffey G0 Piranha Plant

Super Mario Land

Hi. In this article and in Super Mario Land related articles is said that the plants featured in that game are not Piranha Plant, but Pakkun Flowers. Anyway Pakkun Flower is the japanese name for Piranha Plants (the english word flower is written furawa in japanese), so they're not different characters, but their name just remained untranslated, like all the other enemies in that game. So, what I'm gonna do is to change every reference to Pakkun Flower into Piranha Plant, leaving only in this page the note that the name wasn't translated in the manual.--Kombatgod 12:10, 26 March 2009 (EDT)

I agree. It's so confusing! the template calls them pakkun flowers, but when i click, im redirected to the piranha plant article. Caution! Your Buddy Bill was here!ho hum

Just make sure to use the name "Pakkun Flower" when referring to the Piranha Plants from Super Mario Land, per a proposal to refer to characters, species, etc. by the name they are referred to in different games. For example, since Peach is called Toadstool in Super Mario RPG, she is referred to as Toadstool in sections about Super Mario RPG. -- Son of Suns (talk)

Ok, then. But we still can't consider them as different characters, to avoid confusion.--Kombatgod 12:49, 26 March 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, that's why the content is on this page. Both names are official so both are used in the appropriate sections and articles. -- Son of Suns (talk) P.S. But I would like to venture the possibility that Nintendo named these enemies Pakkun Flowers on purpose to distinguish them from Piranha Plants.

I was thinking that too, something like that in the english Mario universe piranha plants are named differently in the Mushroom Kingdom than in Saaraasa(?I never read that name carefully) Land. Anyway I think they just kept the japanese name for all enemies...--Kombatgod 13:06, 26 March 2009 (EDT) P.S. hey thank you very much for the fast response and editing action! Other wikis takes very long to do something like this!

Pakkun or Packun?

Super Mario Land called them "Pakkun Flowers" instead (and it's closer to the romaji), but most Japanese materials prefer to call them "Packun Flowers" in English (for example, http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gm4j/02.html). So which one should we stick with? I say we keep the Super Mario Land section the way it is, but otherwise replace all instances of "Pakkun" with "Packun" when referring to the Japanese games. LinkTheLefty 12:57, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Create a new page, Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)

There has been a translation inconsistency in English concerning the Piranha Plant variants in Paper Mario: TTYD. The enemy that was named Pale Piranha in the English version, was just known as "Pakkun Flower", i.e. Piranha Plant, in the original Japanese version, and subsequently in all translated versions except English.

On the other hand, the enemy simply known as "Piranha Plant" that later appears in the Pit of 100 Trials was known as "Killer Pakkun" in the Japanese version, and subsequently according names in all translated versions except English.

It is apparent to me that there has been a mix-up in the English version and that "Pale Piranha" is a mistaken name for what should just be called Piranha Plant. I proposed that on Pale Piranha's page. On the other hand, I propose here that the "Killer Pakun" is split from the Piranha Plant article to a new page "Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)".

Proposer: Cobold (talk)
Deadline: April 3 2010, 23:59

Split

1. Cobold (talk) - For the same reasons that Yo'ster Isle will be merged with Yoshi's Island.
2. KS3 (talk) Per all.
3. Vellidragon (talk) - For great justice consistency.
4. Walkazo (talk) - Per all.
5. Mr.C (talk) - Per all.

No Split

1. Commander Code-8 (talk) What makes the Killer Pakun different from a normal Pirhana Plant?

Split Pale Pirahna and merge the Paper Mario TTYD Piranha Plant

I don't care if this subject has been discussed (cause I know it has) but this is just not right. Pale Piranhas are clearly stated to be sub species of Piranha Plants. We don't have Putrid Piranhas or Frost Piranhas merged. So what if the Japanese name is the same as Piranha, there appearance is different. Plus actual Piranha Plants appear in the game. They should be merged with this Piranha Plant.

Proposer:Tails777 (talk)
Deadline: September 24, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Tails777 (talk) Per my proposal. I don't know how the other proposal passed.
2. yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk) I think it's been decided Normal Piranha Plants don't appear. Both should get separate pages. But this is one step towards that.

Oppose

1. Goomba's Shoe15 (talk) Per the arguments in the frist two proposals
2. Toad85 (talk) Per Walkazo's comment.
3. Walkazo (talk) - Like I said last time, both articles should be separate from this page, because both plants are obviously not normal Piranha Plants, and we have the official means to act on our observations thanks to the English and Japanese names. But since that's not happening this time either, once again, the easiest thing to do is to stop this TPP so we don't waste our time merging an article that shouldn't be merged, and to revisit the issue next month - but next time, just split Pale Piranha and leave the already split one alone.
4. Bowser's luma (talk) Per Walkazo.
5. Magikrazy51 (talk) I oppose 1/2 of this proposal. The same half as Walkazo. BTW, Tails. You spelled Piranha two different ways.
6. Mario4Ever (talk) Per Walkazo.

Comments

I stand by what I said on the last TPP: we should give BOTH Piranha Plants separate pages:

The Pale Piranha is clearly said to be a "subspecies" of Piranha Plant, and it has a different name to boot. However, the TTYD Piranha Plant is also a unique "type" of Piranha Plant, and also has a different name in many languages. Therefore, the best thing to do would be to give BOTH enemies separate pages, and just talk about how TTYD has four kinds of Piranha Plants on the main Piranha Plant page. This will be consistent with how we've dealt with various other differently designed enemies that have the same names in some languages, but different names in others: we go with the language(s) that make the most sense (the "Japan is always right" idea used in the old proposal is outdated; Japan is still right about the "Killer Pakkun", but I think English is right about the "Pale Piranha").

Giving them both pages will also mean we won't have any more TPPs about splitting whichever one isn't currently split... - Walkazo 22:37, 7 September 2011 (EDT)

Yes, I guess keeping both regular Piranha Plants seperate is O.K. , But Pale Piranha should be split. User:Tails777

Yes, it should, but the other one shouldn't be merged, and this TPP will force that to happen if it passes, or it will force us to not split Pale Piranha for at least a month if it fails. And either way, we'll need another TPP, and the problem won't be fixed for ages... It'd be better to just cancel this one while we still can and make one just about splitting, if we really want to break the cycle. - Walkazo 19:02, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

So how do I change the proposal to just split Pale Piranha? Tails777 (talk)

You can't now its been more than 3 days this proposal can not be edited Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

Well O.K. then. Both Piranha Plants should be in the same article anyway. The name in a different language doesn't make it a different enemy. Tails777 (talk)

Yes it does look at Boomerang Bros. from Superstar saga same name in English and Japanese still a different enemy because the Italian name and the French name is different Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

Yes, this is exactly like the Boomerang Bro. thing (and a handful of other split/merge TPPs). One plant looks different and the other is found in a specific location and has unusually high stats, so based on that, we can say neither are normal Piranha Plants, and the fact that both have unique names in one language or another confirms it and gives us the official justification to separate both of them. Putting them in the same article is the opposite of what we want to do, because none of the languages (and none of the plants' features) say they're the same thing as each other. The TTYD section of this page should merely be an overview of all the Piranha Plants that appear (not just these two), with links to their pages, which is where the real info would go. - Walkazo 23:16, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

Split Pale Piranha from Piranha Plant

As per Walkazo's comment above, which is taken from this, the Pale Piranha behaves differently from normal Piranha Plants, and we have a different English name for each to justify splitting them, so a split is in order.

Proposer: Bop1996 (talk)
Deadline: November 23, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Bop1996 (talk) Per proposal.
2. Tails777 (talk) Let's do this right. Per proposal.
3. Baconator (talk) I never liked how they were treated the same. Per proposal.
4. MarioMaster720 (talk) I always wanted them to be split. I was first shocked when I saw that they were merged. Split! Split! Split!
5. Walkazo (talk) - Per Proposal, and per my comments/votes on the older proposals: it's about time these TTYD plants both got separate pages and I'm only sorry I didn't get around to making this TPP myself (curse you, numerous preoccupations).
6. New Super Yoshi (talk) It is a different color to a Pale Piranha. Per All.
7. BoygeyMario (talk) They're different species so I completely agree.
8. Mario & Luigi (talk) Per BoygeMario.
9. Magikrazy51 (talk) Commence "per"ing. T minus 3-2-1 PER PROPOSAL!
10. RandomYoshi (talk) — Per all.
11. Mario4Ever (talk) Per all.
12. M&SG (talk) - Considering that Behemoth and Behemoth King are split from each other, it's only right if the same is done to Pale Piranha.
13. FourPaperHeroes (talk) - Per all.
14. Fire-Luigi (talk) These two types of Piranha Plants are completely different, they mustn't be merged.

Quote

In SM64DS, the quote from the signpost about piranha plants has an addition, something along the lines of I don't like eggs. I've lost the game, so is there anyone who can check?EmperorLuigi115 21:18, 18 June 2012 (EDT)

Super Mario Bros. 3 image

The image is Mario losing a life to a Venus Fire Trap, wouldn't it make more sense to have that on the Venus Fire Trap page? Yoshi876 (talk)

Golden Piranha Plants?

A golden variant of piranha plants has appeared more than once like gold goombas, golden piranha plants appeared in new super Mario bros 2 and mario party 10 should Golden Piranha Plants be an article like gold goombas?

Can I create a Golden Piranha Plant article please?

It's your choice if you want to or not. TheHelper100 (talk)

Sources for the enemy name

I know this is obvious, but here is a source for the name anyway:

• Nintendo Power New Super Mario Bros. guide

--Hiccup (talk) 07:42, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

What name? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:39, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Fixed. I meant "Piranha Plant". --Hiccup (talk) 06:17, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

Names stated ingame don't need to be sourced. Binarystep (talk) 22:00, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

Mario Kart Arcade GP Piranha Plant

Should the section about Piranha Plants in the Mario Kart Arcade GP games be moved to Piranha Plant (potted)? They are Piranha Plants in pots, and the "Piranha Plant (potted)" page covers any Piranha Plants in pots, including the ones in Mario Party 3. Also, a picture of a Piranha Plant from Mario Kart Arcade GP DX is already on the Piranha Plant (potted) page. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2017 (EDT)

Yes, I think so. --Super Mario Fan ⁶⁷ (T•C•S) 16:28, 17 May 2017 (EDT)

Split Raving Piranha Plant from this article

Template:SettledTPP Template:ProposalOutcome Seeing as we have articles for various other one-off enemies from the Mario Kart series, such as Walking Tree, Bouncing Note and, most appropriately, Pit Plant, I think it makes sense that we split this sub-species of Piranha Plant from the main article. For a start, they are completely covered in neon lights, or some other form of light emitting dots (You can see it if you look close up at this image), and flash between white, pink, yellow, green, blue and purple, in time with the music of the course. They are primarily black with grey dots in some places, and the colour changing (But naturally white) dots in others, which doesn't resemble the colour scheme of almost any other Piranha Plant (The closest thing I can find in a colour game is a Pale Piranha, but it's not a perfect match, and that's a separate article anyway). These Piranha Plants also dance in time with the music, which I'm fairly certain other ones don't do. As we also have the name for the species from the Prima Guide, like the other articles, I think we have good reason to create this article.

Proposer: BBQ Turtle (talk)
Deadline: 12 December, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. BBQ Turtle (talk) Per proposal.
2. Niiue (talk) Per proposal.
3. YoshiStar28 (talk) Per both.
4. LuigiMaster123 (talk) Per all.
5. Baby Luigi (talk) Per all.

Oppose

1. Astro-Lanceur (talk) not confirmed different.

Comments

These Piranha Plants also dance in time with the music, which I'm fairly certain other ones don't do.

What about the Piranha Plants in Music Park? -- -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:00, 11 December 2017 (EST)

Yeah, I remembered that a couple of days afterwards when it was too late to change the proposal. Apart from that though, I think everything else about them is different, and I'll add in the article that this is not a unique trait and is shared by those in Music Park, but not any others. BBQ Turtle (talk) 16:22, 11 December 2017 (EST)

This is the Ultimate

So, palutena's guidance.....
"Piranha Plants, your Fire Pirahna Plants, Ptooies, Nipper Plants, Nipper Spores, Munchers, Jumping Piranhas, Wild Ptooie Piranhas, Propeller Piranhas, Naval Piranhas, Chewies, Megasmilax, Piranha Pests, Piranha Sprouts, Frost Piranhas, Putrid Piranhas, Proto Piranhas, Piranhabons, Piranha Beans, Mom Piranhas, Small Piranhas, Elasto-Piranhas, Piranha Planets, Bungee Piranhas, Big Bungee Piranhas, Ghosts, Nipper Dandelions, Spiny Piranhas, Dino Piranhas, Fire Stalking Piranhas, Piranha Plorps, River Piranhas, Big Piranhas, Stalking Piranhas, Big Fire Piranhas, Prickly Piranhas, Peewee Piranhas, Inky Piranhas, Gold Piranhas, Bone Piranhas, Big Bone Piranhas, Piranha Pods, Piranha Creepers, Nipper Spore Patches, Paper Fire Piranhas, Poison Piranhas, Big Poison Piranhas, Upside-Down Piranhas, Petey Piranha, Paper Petey Piranha, Petea Piranha-"
This leaves us with a few things..and note they are mostly in game order.

• "Propeller Piranha" is likely a new name for Hootie the Blue Fish.
• "Proto Piranha" is likely Polluted Piranha Plant, referring to protoplasm.
• "Small Piranha" is likely Tane Pakkun the SM64 fire-breather, given the list below's order.
• "Big Piranha" is listed within the NSMBW enemies, while Fire Stalking Piranha Plant is listed after SMG, but before BiS. Both of these are in-line with the JP order seen below.
• "Ghosts" is definitely citogenesis at this point, but this is an actual game, so I don't have much problem with it, but then again....
• Spiny Piranha Plant and Prickly Piranha Plant, given positions, seem to be confused for each other (unless we confused them first).
• "Upside-Down Piranha" is a generic term that was separate back in the day in books.
• "Piranha Pod" is Gūrindai, as it was used in that half-arsed "translation" from SMBE.

Also note the lack of Ice Piranha Plant, despite Frost Piranha being listed.

So, uh....yeah. What to do? Also, "Big Fire Piranha" is now a name. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:20, 29 January 2019 (EST)

In regards to the currently-Japanese-only names, it's possible someone actually translated them rather than lifting straight off of a wiki. I'm for moving the translated names, but not sure on Hootie and Polluted. 21:37, 29 January 2019 (EST)

I personally would like to see if there is any cohesion with the Japanese tattle before anything, myself. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:38, 29 January 2019 (EST)

I'd like to see Hootie moved at least, since it's pretty clear that's what the new name's referring to. Niiue (talk) 21:43, 29 January 2019 (EST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9z8rkPMwnU for Japanese Guidance. I don't speak the language, and while Viridi does also list off a long name they also use different poses, indicating the lines arent exactly the same. 72.200.164.50 21:46, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Wow, the entire conversation is different. 21:48, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Some of these likely came from here, others likely came from other fansites, like FANDOM wikia. At the very least, "Propellor Piranha" and "Big Fire Piranha" seem like actual translations (as much as I like the previous names), but "Ghost" is this one's Lumacomete. An obvious red flag. Which came from them in the first place. They're citing us, we cite them, they re-cite us....arggghhh.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:04, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Here's the order Viridi lists them in the Japanese version:

• Sakasa Pakkun Flower (Upside-Down Piranha Plant)
• Fire Pakkun (Fire Piranha Plant)
• Fūfū Pakkun (Ptooie)
• Puchi Pakkun (Nipper Plant)
• Puchi Pakkun no Tane (Nipper Spore)
• Fire Puchi Pakkun (Fiery Walking Piranha)
• Black Pakkun (Muncher)
• P-Pakkun (Jumping Piranha)
• Ponki Pakkun (Wild Ptooie Piranha)
• Propeller Pakkun (Hootie the Blue Fish / Propeller Piranha)
• Big Pakkun (Naval Piranha)
• Pakkun Blue (Chewy)
• Queen Flower (Megasmilax)
• Peropero Pakkun (Piranha Pest)
• Chuchu Pakkun (Piranha Sprout (Yoshi's Story))
• Pakkun (Piranha's Pursuit?)
• Ice Pakkun (Frost Piranha)
• Poison Pakkun (Putrid Piranha)
• Boss Pakkun (Petey Piranha)
• Dorodoro Pakkun (Polluted Piranha Plant / Proto Piranha)
• Korokoro Pakkun (Piranhabon)
• Mame Pakkun (Piranha Bean)
• Mother Pakkun (Mom Piranha)
• Killer Pakkun (Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door))
• Chibi Pakkun Flower (Small Piranha, from Tiny-Huge Island)
• Dokkan Pakkun (Elasto-Piranha)
• Visitor Pakkun (Piranha Planet)
• Bungee Pakkun (Bungee Piranha)
• Big Bungee Pakkun (Big Bungee Piranha)
• Yūrei Pakkun (Ghost)
• Watage Pakkun (Nipper Dandelion)
• Togetoge Pakkun (Prickly Piranha)
• Dino Pakkun (Dino Piranha)
• Fire Tekiteki Pakkun (Fire Stalking Piranha)
• Dokkun Flower (Piranha Plorp)
• Uki Pakkun (River Piranha)
• Deka Pakkun Flower (Big Piranha Plant)
• Tekiteki Pakkun (Stalking Piranha)
• Deka Fire Pakkun (Big Fire Piranha)
• Igaiga Pakkun (Spiny Piranha)
• Dino Pakkun Jr. (Peewee Piranha)
• Ink Pakkun (Inky Piranha)
• Gold Pakkun (Gold Piranha)
• Hone Pakkun (Bone Piranha)
• Deki Hone Pakkun (Big Bone Piranha)
• Gūrindai (Piranha Pod)
• Nobinobi Pakkun (Piranha Creeper)
• Perapera Puchi Pakkun no Tane (Nipper Spore Patch)
• Paper Fire Pakkun (Paper Fire Piranha)
• Paper Boss Pakkun (Paper Petey Piranha)
• Tea Pakkun (Petea Piranha)
• Doku Pakkun (Poison Piranha)
• Deka Doku Pakkun (Big Poison Piranha)

The order is largely the same, but she lists Upside-Down Piranhas at the front of the list, and the Petey Piranha variants in their debut order. She also mentions a few that were skipped in the localization (Fiery Walking Piranha, "Pakkun", and the Piranha Plants from The Thousand-Year Door). DryKirby64 (talk) 22:41, 29 January 2019 (EST)

I'm curious if the wiki has the citations for Prickly and Spiny Plants backwards.....need someone with the SMG2 PRIMA guide. Also, given the order, "Pakkun" might in fact be the Plant from the Piranha's Pursuit minigame. Japanese desci of that game may need checked. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:47, 29 January 2019 (EST)

I'm thinking they might've meant to say Lava Piranha? Also, some other notes are that Frost Piranha and Ice Piranha Plant have the same Japanese name (Ice Pakkun), and the Small Piranhas are specifically the ones found in Tiny-Huge Island. Given its placement, it seems to be derived from Super Mario 64 DS. DryKirby64 (talk) 23:04, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Actually, double-checking, Lava Piranha is just "Fire Pakkun" in Japanese, so it's already listed. Piranha's Pursuit does in fact refer to the Piranha as just "Pakkun", so it could be that. DryKirby64 (talk) 23:09, 29 January 2019 (EST)

"Fire Puchi Pakkun" is Fiery Walking Piranha. The Petit Piranha's Japanese name is the same as the Nipper Plant's. Mario JC 22:48, 29 January 2019 (EST)

So that's also just not in the English one. Also, mistranscribed "Muncher" as "Nipper" in your list, DryKirby. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:51, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Noted, thanks. "I never want to hear the word 'piranha' ever again." DryKirby64 (talk) 22:54, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Found a Japanese Mario Party vid, it looks like the standalone "Pakkun" refers to the Piranha's Pursuit thing? I could be wrong, though. Niiue (talk) 23:02, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Not sure what else it could refer to, but I'm not an expert on Mario Party by any means. It's one of the few games to have P. Plants to be between Yoshi's Story and PM, though. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:04, 29 January 2019 (EST)

In addition to adding Fire Puchi Packun and Killer Packun, Upside-Down Piranha is still mentioned at the very beginning of the Japanese version (Sakasa Packun Flower). Upside-Down Piranha also comes from the Super Mario Land manual, but it's not so much a variety as it is a direction of the pipe. But yes, it's mostly the same list in the same order. "Small Piranha" is "Chibi Packun Flower", which might be the name for the Fire Piranha in the Super Mario 64 DS guide (which Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia called "Micro Piranha"). It seems to be about the right position if it's true, but it's odd they'd go with that over Super Mario 64. Prickly Piranha and Spiny Piranha were indeed swapped. Big Piranha is listed among the New Super Mario Bros. Wii Piranhas, but the list also breaks chronology earlier when Viridi mentions Nipper Spores among the Super Mario Bros. 3 Piranhas and, in Japanese, mentions the basic Piranha among the Yoshi's Story's. She also indicates that Putrid Piranha and Poison Piranha are indeed separate varieties (but not Frost Piranha and Ice Piranha), as well as Petey Piranha and Petea Piranha. Piranha Pod from Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia is confirmed to be a legit name. So far so good. The problems are that we have a general rule about using the older names in the appropriate sections instead of applying a new one retroactively, so renaming Polluted Piranha Plant to Proto Piranha in particular might look a tad awkward since there are no games to go along with it besides this brief mention. That, and "Nipper Dandelion" is actually a huge issue because it was already determined to be a conjectural title. I do have reason to believe that we were referenced once again - namely, it is totally my fault that we now have a Piranha Plant named "Ghost" (yes, it was necessarily sourced from the North American text of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, but clearly it was obviously shorthand for the intended name. So yeah. Sorry about that, guys. I didn't count on Nintendo having more Zacks. LinkTheLefty (talk) 23:15, 29 January 2019 (EST)

That's not the regular Piranha Plant listed near Story, though, from what we can tell, it's the writhing, full-bodied, utter monstrosity from Piranha's Pursuit. Additionally, regarding the "name of the time" rule, please recall that guides are less on the hierarchy than games are. Or alternatively, we could say "where they are applied their current name" in an "other appearances" section. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:20, 29 January 2019 (EST)

This is probably controversial, but I think we should move Ghost (Piranha Plant) to the obvious intended name and just treat its mention in Ultimate as the mistake that it is. Niiue (talk) 23:21, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Oh, thank you! I had completely missed Sakasa Pakkun; she talks so fast. I do think it's entirely possible that "Nipper Dandelion" is simply how they chose to localize the original name (because it's fairly generic and self-evident), but "Ghost" is definitely derived from the wiki's shorthand. DryKirby64 (talk) 23:25, 29 January 2019 (EST)

Sure thing. I disagree with Watage Pakkun, though - since the direct translation would be "Fluff Piranha", it seems clear that the translator looked it up for context. So I have reservations about the Yoshi's Island DS Piranha Plants - the rest seem to check out, as long as we keep the retroactive rule in mind (though, since Propeller Piranha is a direct translation and Hootie the Blue Fish was only used in the Yoshi's Island guide, maybe that one can used for Yoshi's New Island info). LinkTheLefty (talk) 00:32, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Nipper Dandelion fits Nipper Spore better than a literal translation of "Fluff Piranha" would, though. Niiue (talk) 00:56, 30 January 2019 (EST)

I agree with moving the current Japanese names and especially Ghost, since it does indeed appear to be intended as a shorthand for "Ghost Piranha" like "Frost" and "Wild Ptooie". I think it's possible the localisation team would've come to the name "Nipper Dandelion" on their own. Mario JC 04:48, 30 January 2019 (EST)

I probably wouldn't give it a second thought if Viridi didn't also use "Ghosts". That's very suspicious to me. But I suppose that, technically speaking, "Ghost" is correct and better than nothing because we don't know if the Smash for writer was conveying "Ghost Piranha" or "Ghost Piranha Plant", and going with one of them would be filling in the blanks at this point. I guess I'm alone on Nipper Dandelion. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:31, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Honestly, I'm not really a fan of rejecting in-game names because they may or may not have started as fan names. At that point, it feels like the wiki's selectively deciding what official material is "correct", and that doesn't seem right to me. Niiue (talk) 15:03, 30 January 2019 (EST)

My only problems are "Ghost" and the switching around of Spiny and Prickly Piranha Plant, as the JP names more match up with the ones PRIMA gave them meaning-wise. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:23, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Yeah, I'd still consider "Ghost" a mistake at least. Niiue (talk) 15:35, 30 January 2019 (EST)

The problem with that would be licensing - in practice, it may be no different from what was done with Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia if the Nipper Dandelion name was referenced from us (and I have mixed feelings about "Ghosts" getting in there). I've asked Time Turner to double-check the Yoshi's Island DS guides to make sure Nipper Dandelion really was conjectural. I don't see issues with anything else in the guidance, though. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:42, 30 January 2019 (EST)

So besides the Yoshi's Island DS Piranhas, which I suggest holding off on for just a little while longer, are we on board with renaming Hootie the Blue Fish to Propeller Piranha, Polluted Piranha to Proto Piranha, Big Venus Fire Trap to Big Fire Piranha, and Gūrindai to Piranha Pod? LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:17, 30 January 2019 (EST)

I am on board with renaming Hootie the Blue Fish to Propeller Piranha, Polluted Piranha to Proto Piranha, Big Venus Fire Trap to Big Fire Piranha, and Gūrindai to Piranha Pod. Doomhiker (talk) 17:38, 30 January 2019 (EST)

I personally agree with renaming those articles as well. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 17:42, 30 January 2019 (EST)

So will we just assume the translations of Prickly and Spiny here were mistakes? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:18, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Actually, upon closer inspection, we do have the names swapped. The Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima guide's introductory page for "Spiny Piranha Plant and Prickly Piranha Plant" (29) pictures the former on the left and the latter on the right - but it later changes "Prickly Piranha Plant" to "Spiky Piranha Plant" (222 & 225). So in addition to the guidance order being mostly the same besides Upside-Down Piranha and the Petey Piranha bosses, it looks like the wiki articles revolve around the "Spiky Piranha" inconsistency. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:55, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Figured. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:36, 30 January 2019 (EST)

According to Peardian, "Proto Piranha" is in fact used on the Toadstool Tour scoreboard. So that's worth looking into. Note that unlike Gooble/Glorpedo, this has fairly solid evidence as to which entity it refers to. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 00:37, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Here it is in the Japanese version. There are a few naming differences like Bubba and Toadsworth, but this one appears to align. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:02, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Additionally, should we split off the hideous abomination from Piranha's Pursuit now? It has definite differentiation here, and acted different to begin with.... Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 04:55, 30 January 2019 (EST)

It's in a strange state because Petey Piranha replaced it in The Top 100, but since Nintendo remembered it over Tane Pakkun and Glad Piranha Plant, I don't see why not. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:31, 30 January 2019 (EST)

You know, it occurs to me. The way these are listed in the JP version is suspiciously similar to how the Japanese Wikipedia lists enemy names (I sometimes go there to laugh at how auto-translate effs it up). Anyways, the lists there are hilariously strict on what counts as the same thing (see the manner "Mame Boomerang Bro" is listed on the Hammer Bro page, saying it's only the one from M&LDX), so I'm wondering if the list of names in the JP version may have in fact came from there. Ultimately, this probably doesn't matter, as most would be confirmed by official sources anyway, but it would explain why "Pakkun" is so conspicuously listed. If that's the case on JPWikipedia, at least. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:27, 30 January 2019 (EST)

I thought Ghost came from a NP guide. The Hootie the Blue Fish has 3 options. 1) The localization either thought it to be something else 2) They forgot it original name 3) decided to rename it due to not being a fish. -- FanOfYoshi 13:04, 30 January 2019 (EST)

The JP wikipedia page notes a "Jurassic Packun" among the various derived species (the name derived from the JP name of Piranha's Pursuit), so that might explain why there's just a simple "Packun" among the other Piranha variants Viridi lists in the JP version (as the actual game refers the plant simply as "Packun" in the JP Rules screen).
Otherwise, I would have no idea why else she would list it. To me, that's just a regular Piranha Plant with legs; which also appears in a few other occasions within the original N64 Mario Party games, such as Duel Mode in Mario Party 3. Arend (talk) 13:11, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Note that Japanese Wikipedia also has Nipper Spore right in the middle of the Super Mario Bros. 3 variations (in the same spot), but the list itself not an exact copy - the arrangement is slightly different (though still in rough chronological order), possibly due to including some notable bosses that were originally in a separate section. They likely used it as a base and rewrote it (note the spelling of some like Sakasa Packun and Yurei Packun are different), but they overlooked the placement of Nipper Spore (and made some odd adjustments like putting Chibi Packun Flower at around Super Mario 64 DS instead of Super Mario 64, and ignoring that it recently went under the more accurate name "Chibi Fire Packun" in Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.). If this is true, it seems the Ultimate writer made a conscious effort to remove "Yoko Packun" (Side Piranha) and the original Giant Piranha Plant (as it's practically the same thing as Big Piranha Plant), and add Watage Packun, Gold Piranha and Fire Stalking Piranha, but still include the "Piranha" Plant from Mario Party. Also, FanOfYoshi, I'm going with a fourth option - they thought "Hootie the Blue Fish" was too on the nose. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:30, 30 January 2019 (EST)

If anything, I am definitely for spitting Petea Piranha as they are referred to be different which definitely did not come from us. Doomhiker (talk) 14:26, January 30 2019

I agree. We have enough information to make the split. I also think we should consider what to do with Mario Party's "Packun" because, even if it might have been a holdover from the Wikipedia list, they still made the effort to correct the name to the official in-game one (although two-legged Piranha Plants have been seen elsewhere, such as in Super Mario RPG). We could possibly look into merging Ice Piranha Plant with Frost Piranha because we've had two Smash Bros. games in a row where no distinction is made between them - but before we do, we should probably reference the other foreign subtitles in case they show any differences from the Japanese or English dubs. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:42, 30 January 2019 (EST)

The French, Spanish, German, Italian, Dutch, and Russian subtitles all follow the English dub, except Italian skips Big Bungee Piranha and Russian skips Wild Ptooie Piranha. There are a few minor oddities as well, but something interesting happens when the language is set to Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese or Korean. As expected, the Asian languages follow the Japanese track, complete with starting at... "Upside-down Piranha Plant" - meaning that many of the subtitled names are plainly written in English! Most of them are simply lifted from the English language setting, but what's worth noting is that the one skipped in the English dub, Fiery Walking Piranha, is given the name "Fire Nipper Plant" here. The other one noteworthy is that "Packun" is listed as "Piranha Plant" (maybe Packun was supposed to be general shorthand for a basic Piranha Plant rather than a specific variation after all, but it's just in a weird spot like several others). I have no idea why this is the case, and for all we know it could be adjusted post-Ver. 2.0.0. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:15, 14 February 2019 (EST)

Fire Nipper Plant is a definitive case of citogenesis, checked the history. -- FanOfYoshi 12:15, 26 February 2019 (EST)

...no? It's a very obvious name that matches up with the JP name. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:24, 26 February 2019 (EST)

I agree, localizing Fire Puchi Pakkun to Fire Nipper Plant is a very straightforward translation, much more so than Watage Pakkun becoming Nipper Dandelion when a translater going by in-game text alone would reach Fluff Piranha (like with Chibi Pakkun and Small Piranha). Fire Nipper Plant was also changed earlier, whereas Nipper Dandelion may have been changed to Watage Pakkun too late since that seems to be about the right timeframe for voice recording. Then there's the question of why it would even be left out of the English dub if they found a workable name in time. I say this particular case is coincidental. LinkTheLefty (talk) 09:01, 4 March 2019 (EST)

What do we do about Sakasa Pakkun Flower? Should we split it or should it stay merged? Viridi mentions it separately from the Piranha Plant. -- FanOfYoshi 05:22, 7 March 2019 (EST)

It should stay merged, since other than this, the only time it's been distinguished is Super Mario Land, and they act exactly the same, just facing a different direction. The upside-down Buzzy Beetles and Spinies are more behaviorally distinct than this. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:38, 8 March 2019 (EST)

Nonsensical sentence

"They also make the same sound as Petey Piranha gets hit by an item or falls down the kart when they get hit by an item." - Trivia section

???? Huh? Shadow2 (talk) 05:01, May 17, 2019 (EDT)

Fire-spitting Piranha Plants

There ought to be stricter consistency regarding fire-spitting Piranha Plants not directly identified as Fire Piranha Plant. Currently, the Fire Piranha Plant article includes the fire-spitter known as "Piranha Plant" in March of the Minis and Minis March Again! (known later in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series as "Piranha with Fire" and then Fire Piranha Plant), but does not include the fire-spitter known as "Piranha Plant" in Dream Team and The Origami King. I think it should be consistent across the board - all of these either belong in the Piranha Plant or Fire Piranha Plant article. Personally, I'd go with the latter since it seems pretty clear that "Fire" tends to be dropped when the normal variant doesn't appear in the same game, making them "Piranha Plants" in the general sense rather than specifically so. This is also applicable to Fire Nipper Plant and Fire P-Pakkun, especially the former as currently the Dream Team appearance is considered Fire Nipper Plant yet The Origami King appearance is considered regular Nipper Plant. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:11, July 20, 2020 (EDT)

I'm honestly thinking the former, for the same reason as chasy Bills in 3D games being on the main Bullet Bill page. It seems more like the DT enemy is based on Nipper Plants in general rather than an obscure one-time enemy in SMB3. I think we should reflect what the game itself considers. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:00, July 20, 2020 (EDT)

On closer inspection, though, Bull's-Eye Bills are always visually distinct from Bullet Bills, whereas Fire Piranha Plants often look identical to Piranha Plants. Also, couldn't that approach be used to merge pre-New Super Mario Bros. Wii Missile/Bull's-Eye Bills into Bullet Bill, among others? LinkTheLefty (talk) 14:47, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

You could say the same for Bouncing Bullet Bill, which in YNI even gets the SMW2 coloration of normal Bullet Bill, but is clearly based off the yellow bouncy one in that game. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:27, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

Right, but I'm not sure I follow the logic completely. I'm saying that, by keeping fire-spitting Piranha Plants in the Piranha Plant article based on the name alone, wouldn't the door be open to do the same to pre-NSMBW Missile Bills and the Bouncing Bullet Bill from Yoshi's Island, or am I missing something? I thought you were in favor of having those articles as they stand now. Also, what about cases like Minis March Again!, in which both types of Piranha Plants appear but the fire-spitter isn't named separately? LinkTheLefty (talk) 18:55, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

That's different. I'm more saying if generic Piranha Plants are shown spitting fire but always doing so in a game, it's more a normal Piranha Plant with the characteristics of a Fire Piranha Plant, not necessarily a Fire Piranha Plant itself. Think like how in Paper Mario, Spear Guys were shown dancing, but we don't consider them Dancing Spear Guys. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:03, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

Oh, so you mean like Mario Kart 7 Goomba (the wiki originally considered them Big Goombas, but they were changed to Goombas due to being the only size in the game and its internal name)? LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:11, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

I suppose, though I feel the large size in that game was more for visibility than an actual characteristic-adoption. Normal Piranha Plants in MK games tend to be bigger than average too. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:32, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

I see. I still think attributes like size and movement are much more relative than fire breath, but if there are no other objections, I'll support doing things your way. One more question - in March of the Minis, only the fire-spitting Piranha Plant appears without in-game name, albeit internally named after Piranha Plant. Would you consider it Piranha Plant or Fire Piranha Plant? LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:15, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

While I do not have personal experience with that game, I'd currently lean on having it be on Fire Piranha Plant, since it's a behavior that is not present in all the game's Piranha Plants. I also feel the relativity of behaviors is also supported by Ultimate's Piranha Plant, since it has behavioral attributes of many types. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:53, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

Good point, I agree. LinkTheLefty (talk) 22:06, July 23, 2020 (EDT)

I'm fine with the approach of considering fire-spitters regular Piranha Plants if they're both called just "Piranha Plant" and they're the only type in a specific game. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 21:05, July 24, 2020 (EDT)

I also agree. --DarkNight 21:09, July 24, 2020 (EDT)

"Oviparity"

This has bugged me for a while, but I never saw Mom Piranha as anything more than a one-off gag, and certainly not a serious indicator that Piranha Plants in general hatch from eggs. The fact that Nipper Plants (who have actually been called "Baby Piranha Plants" on rare occasions) come from more plant-themed spores (or honestly, dandelion seeds) also shows this to not hold water, especially for the opening section. Anyone else in favor of removing this? (Addendum: Piranha Pods also should be considered, as while they resemble Spiny Eggs, the name still suggests more of a seed.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:59, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

It seems like speculation to me, so yeah I don't mind removing it. Nightwicked Bowser 19:10, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

It's not just Mom Piranha who displays oviparous traits; Dino Piranha and Peewee Piranha hatch from eggs. Piranha Plant oviparity is definitely a recurrent trait across games, though I don't find this information notable enough to be kept in the lede. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 20:53, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

I'd say those are more for the "dino" part, though, plus the whole "alien" thing. Also, the fact that Peewee can regenerate its shell casts some doubt on whether they're actually "hatching" to begin with. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 22:18, May 9, 2021 (EDT)

I'm in favor of removing it. Those three are definitely not good evidence that Piranha Plants hatch from eggs, and eggs have other functions in Mario franchise besides hatching infants (fully grown Yoshis are found in eggs in SMW and ML:PiT because they were trapped in them; Yoshis turn things into eggs when they eat them; Yoshi gets into an egg and rolls around as a special move in some games; Mom Piranha is clearly not a newborn). 22:01, July 29, 2021 (EDT)