Talk:Neo Bowser Castle

Merge the Dream Team and Paper Jam appearances to one article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

merge 7-0
While these are different individual castles and have different designs, the exact same thing can be said about the many, many, many different iterations of "Bowser's Castle" we don't split, and I fail to see why this should be different. The name in Paper Jam is a clear callback to the previous one in Dream Team (despite the concept of Bowser's Castle doubling as a flying weapon being in every Mario & Luigi game other than Partners in Time, though these are the only ones of those powered by purple energy...but I digress).

Proposer: Doc von Schmeltwick (talk)
Deadline: April 3, 2022, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per
2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal.
3. LinkTheLefty (talk) Not to mention that the names are identical in every language as well.
4. Tails777 (talk) Seems reasonable, per proposal.
5. Swallow (talk) Taking the point about Bowser's Castle into account, this is fair enough.
6. Somethingone (talk) Design has next to no weight on determining splits and merges, per proposal.
7. Platform (talk) Per all.

Comments

Just to be clear, though: are all instances of Bowser's Castle generally considered the same castle albeit with differently conceived designs? ^(T|C) 15:02, March 23, 2022 (EDT)

I seriously doubt the ones in Paper Mario and Superstar Saga could be. Nightwicked Bowser 15:37, March 23, 2022 (EDT)

Re-split Neo Bowser Castle between games

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Sunday, December 1, 2024, 19:21 GMT

Neo Bowser Castle in Dream Team is a "world". It's not delineated in the game in that way, but functionally each area of Pi'illo Island can be considered a separate world, with differing mechanics and goals. From it, the player accesses various "levels", which introduce or elaborate on these mechanics. This is more obvious from the structure of this game's Pi'illos and Dream Worlds, but even without the Dream World around thinking of sets of rooms as a "level" makes plenty of sense. This goes double for more linear areas like Neo Bowser Castle and Mount Pajamaja. Similarly, Dream Team has a whole "unlock new areas in prior locations that have different enemies" thing, which is delineated in articles by giving both groups separate sections for their enemies, almost as though they are separate "levels".

Dream Team is like a platformer, except that instead of selecting levels from a map screen the player walks between them or selects which area to return to from a map screen with the golden Warp Pipes. The article is already thinking of Neo Bowser Castle as a "world" with "levels", as it names and loosely describes the sections in the Area Layout section. (I think the names and organization are coming from the official guide? It could probably use some elaboration beyond what's written, but that can be fixed.)

Because of this, I think there is good reason to once again split the Neo Bowser Castle's apart. A split would better reflect the game's hybrid platformer/RPG nature by putting this article more in line with platformer World articles. It would make it easier to see what is missing from the article and less intimidating to do things like figure out how to organize a layout section. This change would also make the page easier to use as a reference when playing the game. (I think that's what the block listing sections are meant for, but if this is true and I'm playing Paper Jam, and I am looking at Paper Jam's blocks and then want to scroll to see a Paper Jam enemy, scrolling up all the way past Dream Team's blocks is a substantial obstacle.)

Proposer: Salmancer (talk)
Deadline: August 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Salmancer (talk) Just think of it as World 9, or World 8 if you discount the Blimport.
2. Camwoodstock (talk) ...I don't think we follow the proposal's logic, but we've got our own reason this has been irking us. Simply put, aside from the reuse of names and some assets, the two Neo Bowser Castles from Dream Team and Paper Jam are effectively different locales. They have different maps, different enemies, different items inside them, different gimmicks, and while I'm admittedly not familiar with Paper Jam's story, in Dream Team, it was jointly created by Bowser and Amtasma, is black and purple, and at the end of the game, it falls out of the sky, rubbles itself, and then explodes for good measure. The page on Paper Jam asserts that game's Neo Bowser's Castle is just, Bowser's Castle, but it got launched into the sky--and looking at that game's Bowser's Castle, the similar visuals are pretty much only an indoors thing. While we are, self-admittedly, not that knowledgable on Paper Jam, and we'd be glad to know if we missed anything, what we've seen suggests that it's only the Dream Team Bowser's Castle "in-name only", as it were.

Oppose

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - ...what? Sorry, but that argument doesn't make any sense at all to me.
2. Sparks (talk) Both castles are "new" versions of Bowser's Castle and they're also both exclusive to Mario & Luigi. They're also very similar in general, so I don't think a split is needed.
3. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per the proposal that merged them, the whole "world" argument also works the same way in Paper Jam.
4. Tails777 (talk) I did support merging these two castles and while Camwoodstock's reasonings of them being different locations with different layouts, different enemies and different gimmicks is a viable reason to split them, examples like Toad Town and Bowser's Castle (courts, stadiums and racetracks not included) are perfect examples of how these work as one article. Partners in Time laid Toad Town to ruin and it's still merged regardless. So I feel this is fine staying merged.