Talk:Border Bro

Sumo Bros.?

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These guys always made me think more of Sumo Bros. than Hammer Bros. with their goofy hippo-faces, but going beyond that, the Japanese name uses "Kyodai" rather than "Bros.", which combined with the first word starting with a K-sound makes them seem more like they're based on Sumo Bros. - called "K.K." in Japanese, which purportedly stands for "Kaminari Kyodai" (though as far as I am aware, that was only explicitly confirmed as of The Origami King many years afterward). As these are "Kokkyō Kyodai," which can also be shortened to "K.K." rather than using English words like most Hammer Bros. do in Japanese, and look more like Sumo Bros. anyway, should these be reclassified as those via those context clues? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:01, September 11, 2024 (EDT)

They have the same helmets as the rest of the Bros. family, so probably not. They're more likely to be based on this unused green-colored Hammer Bro enemy, I'd say. Blinker (talk) 11:35, September 12, 2024 (EDT)

That doesn't explain the muzzles and K.K. name, though. Sumo Bro is itself probably inspired by Sledge Bro. (Also you don't start encountering "bean"-type enemies until Hoohoo Mountain; Border and Stardust Fields are still primarily normal-Mario themed.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:27, September 12, 2024 (EDT)

The K.K. name could just be a coincidence, I mean, They're brothers and they guard the border. Also, I'm not sure the unused enemy is supposed to be a '"bean"-type enemy'. The one on the right has leaves on its head, but the one I'm talking about doesn't. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if the sprite was originally intended to be a Sledge Bro, given the proportions and colors, but I might be wrong and that's neither here nor there. And also, you say that "Sumo Bro is itself probably inspired by Sledge Bro", but is it? They really don't have much in common besides being heavyweight Koopas. And as for the muzzles, I'm not sure "if they're Hammer Bros, they're kinda off-model" is that strong an argument in Superstar Sage of all games. These guys are supposed to be Toads, after all. Blinker (talk) 16:31, September 12, 2024 (EDT)

Considering the gigaleak, there's evidence that Hammer Bro and Sledge Bro "became" AFH Bro and Sumo Bro in the final product of SMW. And yes, there's a lion's share of off-model-ness, though I'm starting to think Limbo Bro was the one inspired by Sledge Bro in MLSS (see the discussion I started on that talk page) while Hammer Bro looking like a hunchbacked vulture simply gave an unintentional resemblance to Sledge Bro. And please note, those designs were kept in the remake, unlike the Hammer Bros. and certain BeanBean entities like the Troopeas. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:41, September 12, 2024 (EDT)

"And please note, those designs were kept in the remake, unlike the Hammer Bros. and certain BeanBean entities like the Troopeas." I'm not sure what this argument is supposed to mean. Yes, enemies with more unique designs generally kept their designs, unlike those that are regular Mario enemies or look a lot like the regular Mario enemies they're based on. That includes Limbo Bro, but it also includes Yo Bro, Spiky Snifit, ~~Sworm~~, Mecha-Blooper, the list goes on. I don't see much reason to think Limbo Bro was based on Sledge Bro specifically, and even if it was, that doesn't preclude the possiblity that Sledge Bros may have originally been intended to appear, and even if it did, that wasn't even my main point, hence the small text. As for the gigaleak, isn't the evidence just the fact Sledge Bros were cut from the game? That's not nothing, but it's not very convincing as evidence, I think. Blinker (talk) 17:14, September 12, 2024 (EDT)

Moreso their appearing in revisions once Sledge Bro was gone (if I'm remembering right), but the similar roles, them coming in pairs, and it being discovered that the English names were already being decided in tandem with the Japanese ones in development (Also TOK lists them next to Sledge Bros.) But back to the MLSS thing, many of the "variant" enemies did get -mild- redesigns to match the current base ones; Yo Bro got taller and with a more normal-looking beak, Beanerang and Chomp Bros got shoes (unlike Limbo Bro and these two, which still lack shoes - much like Sledge Bro, though unlike typical Sumo Bro), Sniper Bill matches normal Bill now, all the Snifits were given black masks, Gunner Guy is a more standard red rather than camou, Ice Snifits and Chuck Guys were given more standard Shy Guy body shape, the "presenter" Moles look like normal Monty Moles rather than Mega Moles, the list goes on. The Border Bros. keeping their "what the heck are these martians supposed to be" design indicates they weren't meant to just be Hammer Bros. - though admittedly, they also look like kappas. (Also, it's my fault the wiki no longer treats Sumo Bros. as Hammer Bros., that was before TOK and the gigaleak.) Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:28, September 12, 2024 (EDT)

I think that these guys' names are coincidence as well. After all, many many things in the Mario franchise share their names in Japanese and have nothing to do with each other. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 07:39, September 14, 2024 (EDT)