Talk:Mushroom

I think the picture at the top should be in Super Mushroom, because it's actually a super mushroom. Also this page should cover more about mushrooms in general, instead of just items in the RPGs that are called only mushrooms. CrystalYoshi

Merge M&L series mushrooms together

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

merge on main article 1-5-0
As stated above, I propose to merge Mushroom, Super Mushroom (just M&L info), Ultra Mushroom, and Max Mushroom (just M&L info) into a seperate page or on the main mushroom page. We already have the Nuts ajoined, so we should also ajoin these stated above together to get rid of the small articles they are.

Proposer: Baby Mario Bloops (talk)
Deadline: 11 February 2010, 17:00

Merge Mushrooms together on a Separate article

1. FunkyK38 (talk) - Good idea. It gets rid of stubs and it will join more of the mushroom family together.

Merge Mushrooms together on main Mushroom article

1. Baby Mario Bloops (talk) - Per all I said above and the logic of how the other sections would have to be seperated and cause the mess.
2. Red Shell 68066vr (talk) We did it with the Nuts article and we will be doing it with the Syrup page, so we need to be consistent. Here is the syrup talk page: syrup talk
3. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) - Per the shell that reflects the wavelength light of red and consistency.
4. Walkazo (talk) - Per all: consistency and streamlined navigation are always to be striven for.
5. Reversinator (talk) Consistency!

Comments

I want to know how you could name the page for the mushrooms that appear in the Mario & Luigi series in case this proposal succeeds, please. ¢oincoll€ctor

Well, possibly Mushroom (Mario & Luigi) or any similar name. Don't worry, that is not the only name I thought of. Baby Mario Bloops (talk)

"Mushroom (Mario & Luigi series)" perhaps? You need to decide on the name before the proposal passes so the voters know exactly what we'll be getting. - Walkazo 23:35, 30 January 2010 (EST)

Yeah, that is a better name, so if my side wins, than we will call it what Walkazo said. Also, just in case like the syrups, the page won't be a sentence or two long, as you can see by the fact of the paragraghs they are right now. Baby Mario Bloops (talk)

You see, Red Shell 68066vr, the Nuts article needs to be expanded, the syrups do to! The mushroom info is not to little, so it can be a seperate article! The Nuts are a seperate page BTW, just that there was no other nuts. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Also, Nuts and Syrups only appeared in two games, Mushrooms all three! Do you understand what I'm saying? - Baby Mario Bloops

Regardless of that, he (or she?) has a point. A strong one in fact. Consistency is just as important as expanding articles, if not more important. - Gabumon^(talk) 17:19, 4 February 2010 (EST)

Now what makes you say that putting it on another page say that it won't be consistent? Just because RS ####vr (sorry, got lazy) said that it will be consistent doesn't mean it won't be either way. Leaving them alone as seperate articles will break the consistenty, though. Baby Mario Bloops (talk)

I assume that is why he/she didn't vote to "leave them alone". - Gabumon^(talk) 17:32, 4 February 2010 (EST)

Consistency is important. When we look in the syrup page, for example, we see all the syrups names and all of this stuff. When we look in the Mushroom article, however, we see that there is barely/no information on the mushroom items! It's on a separate article!

The Mushroom article has more info, yes, but wouldn't hurt to expand more. Besides, placing all the Mushrooms in another article will probably create a stub since they look exactly like mushrooms, except that they restore different amounts of HP.

(Separate is spelled like this, FYI. Sorry for being a spelling nut. :()

Ray Trace^(T|C)

STOP USING THE SYRUP PAGE AS A REFERENCE!!!! We need to expand it like the Nuts page. Also, like above, Mushrooms won't be a stub as a seperate article because they been in all the games!!! (3 games, Nuts/syrups - 2 games) Personally, I think it would be more consistent if it was seperate because it would help users find it easier instead of looking throughout the Mushroom Page. And, we bring it to this page, lot of stuff is going to be added that could have been a complete non-stub article!!!! Please, everyone, get that in your head if you don't already! Baby Mario Bloops (talk)

Err... calm down. The opposers do have valid reasons to oppose after all. They are correct, splitting it into a separate page for the M&L series isn't very consistent. We would also have to create an article for Mushroom (Super Mario series), Mushroom (Paper Mario series) and so on for consistency.--Knife (talk) 19:45, 5 February 2010 (EST)

I'm not angry at all. Also, that is a very good valid point, but also we have articles that have stuff that is seperated that the other stuff should be seperated too for consistentity but isn't. Baby Mario Bloops (talk)

Split Mushroom (Super Mario RPG info) into Mushroom and Mushroom (status effect)

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split 6-0
I tried deleting the notice in the Super Mario RPG section but Knife reverted the change, so I decided to create this proposal. As Knife says, it explains its status effect too. It simply can't do it. So I propose that we split them.

Proposer: Red Shell 68066vr (talk)
Deadline: 20 February 2010, 20:00

Split them

1. Red Shell 68066vr (talk) per proposal
2. Knife (talk) - Per proposal
3. Fawfulfury65 (talk) Per all.
4. Baby Mario Bloops (talk) - They aren't the same, then they shouldn't be under the same header name...
5. Walkazo (talk) - Per all.
6. Gamefreak75 (talk) Per all.

Merge SMRPG Mushrooms onto one page....

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

merge 0-3-0
Yes, another Mushroom one, like we don't have enough, but, for the consistent info, we should have Mushroom (SMRPG info), Bad Mushroom, Mid Mushroom, and Max Mushroom merged together. Just like the Mushroom one I did above, and the Syrup one, they are too small to be better off and since we already merged one thing, we need to be consistent.

Proposer: Baby Mario Bloops (talk)
Deadline: 25 February 2010, 20:00

Merge SMRPG Mushrooms onto main Mushroom Page

1. Baby Mario Bloops (talk) - Many reasons: Proposal maker, consistent, etc etc etc...
2. Red Shell 68066vr (talk) Max Mushroom is a stub now.
3. Walkazo (talk) - Seeing as the M&L Mushrooms have all been merged, the only consistent thing to do would be to merge Bad Mushroom, Mid Mushroom, and Max Mushroom into the SMRPG section of the Mushroom page as well. Saving space, scrapping stubs and speeding up navigation are also pluses.

Comments

Just noting, you spelled separate wrong again (seperate) KS3 (talk · contribute)

Merge PM Mushrooms together

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

failed 0-0-4
You already know what I'm about to say, but those who don't know: I plan to merge the PM mushrooms (Mushroom (PM info), Super Shroom, Ultra Shroom, and Slow Shroom) together to help with consistency that is going on, delete small pages, blah blah blah, you get the point. Please more votes this time.

Proposer: Baby Mario Bloops (talk)
Deadline: 14 March 2010, 2:00

Leave PM Mushrooms as separate Pages

1. Reversinator (talk) The Paper Mario mushrooms are a lot more unique and major than the M&L and SMRPG mushrooms.
2. Baby Mario Bloops (talk) I know it's still early to vote. But, the pages are not that short, have plentiful info that should never be merged, and per above with the uniqueness of the articles. I only did this in favor of KS3 since he didn't make a proposal himself...
3. Walkazo (talk) - Unlike in M&L and SMRPG, the PM Mushrooms can be used in recipes, which makes Super Shrooms and Ultra Shrooms more unique than if they just restored different amounts of HP. Slow Shroom is even more different than regular Mushrooms, and shouldn't even be considered for a merge.
4. KS3 (talk) Okay, what the hell. Slow shrooms don't restore health, and there are a lot of shrooms in Paper Mario. And they can be used in recipes. Per Walkazo.

Comments

Baby Mario Bloops (talk) The pages could work just staying alone, may be better to merge it here, or to merge onto one single page. I don't know, and I want to see what people's opinion's are.

Baby Mario Bloops (talk) - KS3, not to be at all mean, I'm just saying this for reference next time. When your wondering if a proposal should be made, and you think that someone else is going to make it, then just make it if the person hasn't yet. It will save some confusion for some users...

Types of Mushrooms

Shouldn't Bee Mushroom, Boo Mushroom, and Rock Mushroom also be in the Types of Mushrooms section?? They are mushrooms too... KS3 (talk · contribute)

The section is missing tons of mushrooms. I say we just scrap the section. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

I agree, we already have the mushroom template anyway at the bottom.--FREAK ~Game Freak~ OUT!

They should at least be listed somewhere in the article, perhaps also indicating the game (or media) of origin. Culex 11:40, 10 April 2010 (EDT)

Well, you should blame it all on me. I added that section, and I thought about just adding the "Major Mushrooms." You're right, we should screw this.

Ray Trace^(T|C)

People, go here. KS3 (talk · contribute) 17:39, 27 April 2010 (EDT) (Even though I hate EDT and it is supposed to be GMT)

Move Super Mushroom information to Super Mushroom

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

split 4-0
Yeah, I was the idiot who added all the Super Mushroom information to the Mushroom article. Anyway, this article is supposed to be dealing with types of Mushrooms, but I somehow screwed up and added the Super Mushroom information in this article. I say we move it to the Super Mushroom article, since it should specifically deal with Super Mushrooms. It's basically the same issue I had with Egg and Yoshi Egg.

Proposer: BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)
Deadline: 4 May 2010, 24:00

Support

1. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) Why should I oppose my own proposal?
2. Reversinator (talk) eriFnOigiuLybaB reP.
3. KS3 (talk) Per all. And go here
4. Commander Code-8 (talk) Different Names. Different Article needed.

Move Mega Mushroom info, Poison Mushroom info, etc. to their respective articles

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

canceled by proposer
I noticed that a lot of mushrooms are missing from the Types of Mushrooms section, and there is a proposal undergoing that wants to move the Super Mushroom info to the Super Mushroom article, so we should move the rest of the mushrooms too (except for the RPG Mushrooms).

Proposer: KS3 (talk · contribute)
Deadline: May 8 2010, 23:59

Support

1. KS3 (talk) Per myself

Comments

This doesn't need a proposal. All information stated in those small sections are already mentioned in their respective articles and we can just delete them if you think they're so much of a hassle. This is also coming from the guy who created that section in the first place, so yeah. Ray Trace^(T|C)

Okay. KS3 (talk · contribute) 22:40, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

Your proposal ends in a question, which isn't really a proposition. I'm not really sure what you want to even do with this. --•Turkishcoffee «Talk» 23:22, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

First Apperance

I think it first appeared in Super Mario Bros (1985)
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Larryman (talk).

I remember that it first appeared in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the 7 stars. The mushroom you might be thinking about is this one. KS3 (talk · contribute) 00:13, 15 May 2010 (EDT)

But that is still a mushroom and they have the exact same picture. Larryman

Well, please look above at the TPPs. KS3 (talk · contribute) 14:27, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Artwork

So, apparently this article has a long proposal history. I haven't thoroughly checked all of them yet, I just assume that the info on this page got split from a larger article about Mushrooms at one point. So nowadays, this article is about the Mushroom item found in the RPGs, right? If that's the case, we cannot use the Mushroom artwork from New Super Mario Bros. Wii's Super Mushroom on this page, since that's a completely unrelated item. We need to use artwork from the RPGs here instead. My question is: Does Bowser's Inside Story have official Mushroom artwork that can go on the page? Or any other recent RPG for that matter? - Gabumon^(talk) 08:18, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

No... But it has a sprite. PikaSamus (talk)

???

AHEM! Where is the mushrooms from the Party Series? I just can't believe they aren't listed anywhere! How totally wrong!!! ThePremiumYoshi 09:19, 6 November 2011 (EST)

All Types

I suggest we merge all types of mushrooms (Mini Mushroom, Mega Mushroom, Bee Mushrom, etc.) in one page with its own section and list of appearances to save room on this wiki.{{User:M&L'M&L Baby_mario.gif 20:09, 12 January 2012 (EST)'}}

The other types of Mushroom have more details and completely different roles in the series' various games, so they are completely different, aside from them being powerups and the same type of Fungal life. I would oppose on the basis of these facts. Bop1996 _(Talk)

WRECK IT RALPH APPEARENCE (sorry caps)

The mushroom had a appearance in Wreck-it Ralph. Can I add that? I am goombob and I love paper mario games (talk) 12:26, 18 May 2013 (EDT)Goombob

It's actually already included here. GBAToad (talk) 12:31, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Seperation of Mushroom and Triple Mushroom articles

Since they are seperate items, I believe it would be better to seperate them into different articles, rather than have them merged as they are now. Same applies for Shell/Triple Shell. Digibutter 16:09, 7 March 2014 (EST)

Split Time Kinoko into a separate article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

split 10-0
The "Time Kinoko" from Mario and Wario has a completely different effect from every other Mushroom on this page (the fact that this article is a mix of many different Mushrooms of different effect simply called "Mushroom" notwithstanding...), and has a different name to boot. Sure, it looks the same (more or less) as a "normal" Mushroom, but so do Super Mushrooms. The split name should probably be "Taimu Kinoko", though, at least if I understand the romanization right. Never mind, Time Kinoko is correct, see below.

Proposer: 1337star (talk)
Deadline: June 3, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. 1337star (talk) Per proposal.
2. ShyGuy8 (talk) Per Proposal
3. Binarystep (talk) Per proposal.
4. LinkTheLefty (talk) I was actually just considering splitting this and perhaps the Mario & Wario Star for this reason, so you get my support (and yeah, as Walkazo mentioned below - Time Kinoko).
5. Lumastar (talk) Time Mushroom=/=Normal Mushroom. I don't have much else to add.
6. Walkazo (talk) - Per all.
7. Mario (talk) This would be easier to distinguish the two, so I support.
8. Burningdragon25 (talk) Per all in this one!
9. LudwigVon (talk) Per all.
10. Pyro Guy (talk) Per all.

Comments

It'd actually would be "Time Kinoko": according to policy, we're allowed to change names borrowed from English back into the English names when using Japanese titles for ease-of-use/aesthetics (but the proper romanization still needs to be included in-text). - Walkazo 17:41, 20 May 2015 (EDT)

Ah, thanks. That page is a rather long and intensive read, so I must have missed that part.

Incidentally, if anyone cares, this started as a much more ambitious proposal to split the Kart/Party Mushrooms from the RPG ones. Writing up that proposal brought up so many obvious issues (what to call the articles, what to do with the Mario Golf: World Tour section, etc.) that I scrapped it, but this more clear-cut issue came up in the process. -- 1337star ^{(Mailbox SP)} 17:25, 21 May 2015 (EDT)

First appearance and Latest appearance

Do this item first appear in Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario Bros. 2 and do this one appear in Super Mario Maker. To be honest, I don't understand why there is a page for Mushroom and Super Mushroom and Is there game where this item appear along with Super Mushroom because I would like to know if there are possibilities that it is the same item.--^(TALK) 23:16, 8 December 2015 (EST)

Split SMRPG Mushrooms into separate articles

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

passed 0-10-0
They're unique RPG items with different names, they should be split according to the precedent set by just about everything else. As for why this is a proposal if it's so clear-cut...

Considering the Japanese names and the items' effects, it's pretty clear that Bad Mushrooms, Mid Mushrooms, and Max Mushrooms are just different names for Poison Shrooms, Super Shrooms, and Ultra Shrooms. Because of that, I've included a few options here.

Proposer: Niiue (talk)
Deadline: May 8, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Split Bad Mushroom to Poison Mushroom, Mid Mushroom to Super Shroom, and Max Mushroom to Ultra Shroom

1. Niiue (talk) Per proposal.
2. Toadette the Achiever (talk) This is my preferred option as well. As mentioned in a previous proposal, we have Duel Glove and Fluffin' Puffin as precedents.
3. Marshal Dan Troop (talk) Per all there isn't any real reason to keep these articles merged other then they're short which isn't a very good reason.
4. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
5. Yoshi the Space Station Manager (talk) Bad Mushroom is already with Poison Mushroom, so the only thing to do is get rid of Bad Mushroom and move Mid to Super and Max to Ultra.
6. Baby Luigi (talk) Per all.
7. Quizmelon (talk) Per all.
8. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Per all.
9. Luigi 64DD (talk) Per all.
10. LinkTheLefty (talk) Makes the most sense considering the near-universal precedent for all the other Square Soft / Ted Woolsey terminology.

Split M&L series Mushrooms into separate articles

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

split 7-2
More RPG items with unique names and effects, which have no business sharing a page. Considering the Japanese names (source) and effects, some of them would get merged with the Paper Mario mushrooms, though a few would get their own articles. Here's the tl;dr list of proposed changes:

• Ultra Mushroom info moved to Ultra Shroom
• Max Mushroom info split to Max Mushroom
• Golden Mushroom info split to Golden Mushroom (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)
• 1-Up Deluxe info split to 1-Up Deluxe
• Double 1-Up Mushroom info split to Double 1-Up Mushroom

Proposer: Niiue (talk)
Deadline: May 13, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Niiue (talk) Per proposal.
2. Yoshi876 (talk) Per proposal.
3. TheFlameChomp (talk) Now that both of my reasons for opposing have been resolved, I don't any reason to continue to oppose.
4. Baby Luigi (talk) Per proposal.
5. YoshiFlutterJump (talk) I agree with everything except Golden Mushroom; that should go to the Golden Mushroom page.
6. The Koopa Bro. (talk) Per all.
7. Ultimate Mr. L (talk) Per proposal.

Oppose

1. Yoshi the Space Station Manager (talk) Yeah. I can't see myself supporting this. It will be better to keep them where they are as they will lead to short articles (notice I didn't say stub because it is not a guarantee) especially for the Double Mushroom (which is two 1-Up Mushrooms and nothing else and only appeared in one game. It can't go with 1-Up Mushroom DX if that gets moved, but can if it stays with 1-Up Mushroom) though I can see 1-Up Mushroom DX being separate. Also, after the above one passes, Max Mushroom will have to be changed since it has that and this to work with and thus those who want Max Mushroom from SMRPG will get M&L series Max Mushroom, which is less favorable than a link to both types. However, if you make it Max Mushroom (Mario & Luigi series), then it will be one step closer to a support. Ultra Mushroom and Ultra Shroom just seem different to me, but if the other two are meant, then I will support this. As for Golden Mushroom, just add more to the Golden Mushroom page if you want to have more on it and don't make a new page. Otherwise, I am absolutely opposing this.
2. Time Turner (talk) Per all.

#Baby Luigi (talk) There are some areas of this proposal that I support, like splitting Max Mushroom and Ultra Shroom while the one I oppose, Golden Mushroom, is the one that drags down this proposal. I think status quo would do unless the options change to reflect my opinion.
#TheFlameChomp (talk) Per YtSSM. The Golden Mushroom information should stay on Golden Mushroom, as that page covers any gold-colored mushrooms that have appeared in the Mario franchise.
#The Koopa Bro. (talk) Per YtSSM

Comments

Literally the only thing the two types of Golden Mushrooms have in common is the name and color. Niiue (talk) 20:19, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

The only problem is that, if we split the Golden Mushroom just because it was different, then it wouldn't make sense not to split the rest that are different, which would cause multiple different unnecessary short articles. It also would make navigating the Wiki a little more confusing if you were looking specifically for the ones from M&L, and it is better for them to be in one spot. Also, if we did split all with different abilities, some Golden Mushrooms have similar appearances to each other but different abilities, such as Mario Party: Star Rush Golden Mushrooms using Mario Kart appearances and P&D:SMBE using the appearance from NSMB2, so it would be very confusing to split. I agree with the other splits on the proposal, but I feel the Golden Mushroom is unnecessary. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 20:28, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

For the record, a stub is not a short article: a stub is an article that is lacking information. If a short article has all of the necessary information, it is not a stub. While a stub is often a short article, a short article is certainly not always a stub. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 20:33, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Yeah, "stub" was just the first word that came to my head. However, couldn't a few sections such as New Super Mario Bros. 2 be considered a stub if it were taken from the page and put on a new page? Not only is it only two sentences long, but there isn't exactly that much information. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 20:39, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

I don't see how it'd be any more confusing than, say, the two Ice Mario pages. Niiue (talk) 20:40, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

The only similarities between the Ice Marios are the names and the fact that they are obtained from an Ice Flower. They have different appearances and many different properties, and the NSMBW Box labels Ice Mario as a "new power-up". Even if this is not a good enough answer, another problem I have with this proposal is, as Yoshi the Space Station Manager (talk) said, if the above proposal passes (and it looks like it probably will), then Max Mushroom will be moved to Ultra Shroom, which affects this proposal because then both Ultra Mushroom and Max Mushroom would end up being merged with Ultra Shroom. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 21:24, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

...No they wouldn't. M&L Max Mushrooms aren't the same as SMRPG ones. Niiue (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Oh, Ok. I wasn't sure, because both proposals have something that is being merged with Ultra Shroom, so I wasn't sure if that move would apply to this one too. --TheFlameChomp (talk) 21:28, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

"Literally the only thing the two types of Golden Mushrooms have in common is the name and color." So? The 1-Up Mushroom in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga shares only the color and name too, are you going to split that too? Ray Trace^(T|C) 20:43, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

That's a bad example. It's way more likely that two unrelated yellow mushrooms would be called "Golden Mushrooms" than for two unrelated items to be called "1-Up Mushrooms". Additionally, the M&L Golden Mushroom has a different Japanese name (ゴールデンキノコ instead of パワフルキノコ or スーパーキノコ). Niiue (talk) 20:57, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Are you sure about the "more likely" part? Also, Japanese name alone doesn't warrant a split article, I know that this was the case for other articles on the wiki, but I'm not going to dig up those cases. They need more differences than just the name and function to be split. I still don't believe this Golden Mushroom has enough differences from the standard golden Mushroom to be split, and I think the Golden Mushroom article is a good umbrella article for all Golden Mushrooms in the wiki. And the Golden Mushroom already comes with two Japanese names, so it's already indicator enough that even they can't keep a consistent name with this item. Ray Trace^(T|C) 21:32, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Hm, fair point. I'll remove the Golden Mushroom from the proposal, then. Niiue (talk) 21:41, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

@Yoshi the Space Station Manager: The SMRPG Max Mushroom has nothing to do with this proposal. Niiue (talk) 22:09, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Actually, it does, since Max Mushroom would refer to two things, SMRPG and M&L series, after the above proposal passes. Yoshi the SSM (talk) 22:21, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

...No, it wouldn't. The two proposals refer to different Max Mushrooms. Niiue (talk) 22:23, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Have you even looked at this Yoshi the SSM (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Yeah, I have. Niiue (talk) 22:30, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Then I am saying that Max Mushroom will have to have a link to Ultra Shroom, while having separate info (whether what is proposed or a link to M&L series on this page if it fails) about the M&L Max Mushroom. Yoshi the SSM (talk) 22:39, 1 May 2017 (EDT)

Mushroom

i think that we should move this page to Mushroom (Item) and create a new page called Mushroom whitch will include all of

the types of mushrooms found in the mario franchise, similar to the Block page. Who agrees? YoshiEgg1990 (talk)

Oh, i didn't knew about proposals when i posted this. sorry. Yoshi Egg 1990

New Artwork

I recommend that we change the page artwork to, for instance, the SMRPG artwork so that people won't get confused about Super Mushroom and Mushroom. File:YoshiPink-MK8.pngMoldomreFile:YoshiPink-MK8.png15:27, 19 May 2018 (EDT)

They appear visually similar anyway, so I don't think an artwork change is going to help with that. 15:35, 19 May 2018 (EDT)

Split Dash Mushroom from this article

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

split 5-0
I wanted to wait until a fourth game gave the Mushrooms this name and function just to be certain that they appear to be considered different. Now that Super Mario Party again names them Dash Mushrooms, I think it's about time we split these. They function noticeably different from the Mushrooms both in Mario Party 2 and Mario Party Advance (Dash Mushrooms add three to the player's roll, whereas MP2's Mushrooms simply add a second Dice Block and MPA's Mushrooms grant Dice Block rolls), and we have certain items split from the parent item simply because they perform slightly different functions (Max Mushroom is split from Mushroom even though both are healing items that simply heal different amounts of HP). I'm also proposing that Golden Dash Mushroom be split from Golden Mushroom, since again it's a differently named item that performs a different function from a similar-looking item in the same series (Golden Dash Mushrooms add five to the player's roll, whereas MP2's Golden Mushrooms simply add a second and third Dice Block).

If you support this proposal, let me know if the other items from Perilous Palace Path in Mario Party: Island Tour (Blooper Chopper, Lightning Score Striker, etc.) should be given separate articles as well.

Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk)
Deadline: July 3, 2018, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Toadette the Achiever (talk) Per my proposal.
2. Kolafloro (talk) It has been done before, so, per proposal.
3. George Jones (talk) Per all.
4. Yoshi the SSM (talk) After some thinking, sure. Per proposal.
5. Owencrazyboy9 (talk) Per all.

Comments

And what about the Mario Kart ones that use that name in the PAL version of one game? Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:32, 19 June 2018 (EDT)

Besides regional differences, I meant... (and yes, I will make a note of that via an {{about}} template in the proposed article) ^(T|C) 13:59, 19 June 2018 (EDT)

As for other items that aren't covered by the proposal, but appear as items in Island Tour:

• Setback Shell: too similar to the regular Green Shell and no other Mario Party appearance, so I say no.
• Backwards Bill: There are two other Bullet Bill items split from the Bullet Bill page. And this is different from both. So, Absolutely.
• Blooper Chopper: Maybe. I mean, later the Blooper covers the screen with ink in Coinathlon, but that is effecting a minigame, not the board. I say possibly.
• Lightning Score Striker: Same as Blooper Chopper... except that it doesn't resemble what Lightning does.
• Lakitu's Leech: One other appearance as an item before and it is split from Lakitu, but it is exactly like that item except it is just items now. I don't know, but possibly yes.
• Super Star: Same name, no other appearances in Mario Party, makes sense for it to act like this. I say absolutely no.
• Crazy Kamek and Chaos Kamek: Considering Kamek Orb is split from Kamek, and both are different from Kamek Orb, I say yes.

Yoshi the SSM (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2018 (EDT)

Split Mushrooms based on their Roles

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

don't split 1-5
Okay, so this page has seen its fair share of proposals. But given the ongoing proposal concerning the Golden Mushrooms and the recent Super Mushroom proposal, I feel confident throwing this idea out there; splitting this big Mushroom into smaller Mushrooms based on their roles. So far, this page is covering the standard Mushroom as a healing item, an extra dice block and a boosting item. The Golden Mushroom is currently seeing a similar, if not the same, situation and I feel it's fine to apply it here too. I'm thinking at least three different articles for these Mushrooms, as followed:

• Mushroom: Keeping the page's original name, this would talk about the Mushroom as a boosting item, including its roles in the Mario Kart series, Mario Tennis series, Mario & Sonic series and its appearance as an item in Mario Golf: World Tour, as all these instances include a boost in movement speed, be it for the player or golf ball.

• Mushroom (Mario Party series): This article would talk about the Mushroom's act as an item in the Mario Party series, including its 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 appearances. That being said, since the most recent name would be the Mushroom Orb, that name could also be used, as it's the most recent.

• Mushroom (healing item): This article would talk about the Mushroom's role as a healing item, including its appearances in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, the Paper Mario series and the Mario & Luigi series. The naming would be consistent with the Super Mushroom (healing item). I can also argue that the Mushroom from the Luigi's Mansion remake could also be merged here, though that depends on the naming of that particular mushroom.

The two other instances merged here are the Super Mario Bros. 2 Mushroom and the Mario Clash mushroom. Super Mario Bros. 2 seems like a bit of a mix between a healing item (as it grants an extra heart upon use) and the power-up (granting the Super form if in the Small form) while the Mario Clash mushroom seems to do something different entirely. I'd kinda support the idea of making the Mario Clash mushroom its own article too while merging the Mushroom from Super Mario Bros. 2 to the Super Mushroom page. However, that might be dealing with more than this proposal is initially suggesting.

Proposer: Tails777 (talk)
Deadline: August 6, 2021, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Tails777 (talk) For now, I feel splitting the core three examples are the best option. The concern of other two is up for discussion.

Oppose

1. Keyblade Master (talk) We don't usually split items just because of functionality (especially if the games are different genres), as far as I'm aware these mushrooms have the same name and appearances between the games, most of these even the same basic effect of healing so I don't mind keeping it on the same page. The Golden Mushroom situation on the other hand is to do with the types having different names in Japan.
2. Somethingone (talk) Are we seriously going to disambiguate every single item page just because they have different functions? I was originally on the fence with the Golden Mushroom one but I was convinced after the whole “different name and style” thing, but this is just going too far. These mushrooms look exactly the same and they don’t have a different name. We shouldn’t split items just because the game series they are in has different mechanics from other game series that they are also in. What’s next? Splitting Banana Peel from Banana because one is a hazard? Splitting the Mario Kart coins because they increase the player’s speed? Splitting the SM3DW Shells because you can ride them? It’s really unnecessary. Unless they have an actual difference that DOESN’T tie to the game they are in having a different genre/style, They should stay merged.
3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Completely arbitrary, per all. Also, regarding the MK series one, please see here.
4. Hewer (talk) Personally, I think that most if not all of this page should be merged to the Super Mushroom page for similar reasons to Somethingone's vote, and I feel like this proposal passing would make the problem of random iterations of the Super Mushroom being picked and chosen to be on different pages worse.
5. 7feetunder (talk) I'm just going to quote what I said here: "You might as well say that Blue Coins from Super Mario Sunshine should be split because that's the only game where they're a finite collectible instead of being worth 1 or 5 regular coins, or Warp Pipe Orbs from Mario Party 7 should be split for having a different function from the previous games. Or that Shine Sprites in Thousand-Year Door should be split because they aren't used to power up partners in any other game. Difference in function alone, especially between games in different genres, does not warrant a split."

Comments

@Hewer I think merging this whole page with Super Mushroom would just clutter it a bit too much. This discussion basically shows the road we should take for this sort of thing. Nightwicked Bowser 15:26, July 23, 2021 (EDT)

My viewpoint is that the mushrooms on the Mushroom page are Super Mushrooms with different effects for different genres (I don't think it's a coincidence that most of them look exactly the same), and some of them being called 'Mushroom' while others are called 'Super Mushroom' I don't think is a very good distinction (if this proposal passes, then some healing mushrooms in RPGs would be on the Mushroom page and others would be on the Super Mushroom page, simply because of the names). There are also much bigger name differences than Super Mushroom and Mushroom that are merged (for example, Boss Bass, Big Bertha and Big Cheep Cheep are all merged). At most I might consider splitting Dash Mushroom for its effect difference seemingly being very loosely based (if at all) on the Super Mushroom's effect and its unique name, but even that is pushing it. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 16:09, July 23, 2021 (EDT)

In the RPGs at least, Mushrooms and Super Mushrooms appear together and are treated as seperate items. Nightwicked Bowser 16:17, July 23, 2021 (EDT)

@Doc von Schmeltwick: I wouldn't say this is arbitrary, I'd just say I'm thinking of the situation in the reverse. I'm not saying either or is right or wrong and I went into this thinking if it fails, it fails, no big deal. I just see this in a different light. I didn't go into this without any thought, I just went in with a different perspective, that's all. Tails777 Talk to me!

What exactly is this page about

It heavily overlaps with both Super Mushroom and Dash Mushroom (that's another dodgy article), but even if you rewrite this to mean just "healing item in the RPGs" it's going to conflict with a proposal that allegedly failed in this page (or another proposal passed in another talk page; it's really hard to tell if proposals on these talk pages are really overturned or not). Honestly, with Tree in mind, this page should just be the general overview species page that many other subjects in the series already have, and we use a species infobox. We can also include mentions of Mushrooms that aren't items such as Mushroom Platforms and characters derived from Mushrooms including Toads, but also Shroob, Capnap, Trompette, Goomba, and others. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 14:26, September 7, 2024 (EDT)

I'd consider it similar to tree in that it covers every time a mushroom is considered non-"specialized" (the page being affected by ones that are retroactively considered specialized, like the Dash Mushroom). It might come off as a "wastebasket" page for "the rest," but when you get down to it they're the same concept. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:03, September 7, 2024 (EDT)

I don't know how we define non-"specialized". It seems easier to just have an article on "Super Mushroom" for the item called "Super Mushroom" (ofc given history in practice, this probably isn't as straightforward as I'm putting it, but just for the sake of argument) and this article can be the general Mushrooms. Like, Koopa Troopa for the Koopa Troopa, but Koopa is the general page for the umbrella that Koopa Troopa falls under. Does that make sense? Are we on the same page? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:25, September 8, 2024 (EDT)

I guess, but "base" Koopas never appear, unless you count Shellcreeper. The issue with putting it primarily on Super Mushroom is that it's already a similar case between Super Star and Power Star, which themselves are all-but-stated to be different things... plus the RPG games have them beside Super Mushrooms anyway. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:56, September 8, 2024 (EDT)

Proposal: Shrooms is Shrooms

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Saturday, November 23, 2024, 16:15 GMT

I might be rocking the boat a little too hard here, but here goes.

This proposal concerns three articles: Mushroom, Super Mushroom, and Dash Mushroom. Currently, this wiki's stance is that these three articles cover three distinct objects. I do not believe this is true. I think these are all the same object being referred to with different terminology based on their function in the game. My reasons are the following:

1. This terminology is not applied consistently. I want to mention how only British English translations (during the time those were significantly different) of Mario Kart ever cared to call them "Dash Mushrooms", but I know we work off the Japanese version here, so instead let's start with Dash Mushrooms starting out being called regular Mushrooms. Hey, based on how Mario Party Superstars and Jamboree's item just being "Mushroom" merits us covering it on a different article, should we move over the first half of the Dash Mushroom's Mario Kart appearances too? As for Super Mushrooms — the sheer number of bolded names at the top of the article and the presence of simply "Kinoko" at the top of the "Names in other languages" section shows they're not doing any better on that front.
2. There is only ONE type of situation in which we see two of these Mushrooms in the same game. These are the situations in which there is a superior version of the standard Mushroom. Invariably, these are conveniently the only type of situation where Super Mushrooms have a distinct appearance from regular Mushrooms, and conveniently have a function entirely distinct from turning players Super (which is apparently enough of an identifying trait to get unnamed mushrooms like (as far as I can tell) Super Mario 64 DS's put under that name). I think these are the only real different type of Mushroom anywhere in these three articles, and the rest of them are playing a game of Clark Kent and Superman with us. Oh, wait, sorry, there's a second type of situation: when Mario Kart started calling them Dash Mushrooms they never bothered to rename the Mushroom Cup. Which does not help the distinction's case.
3. Just look at them. These three things look identical. If they were meant to be three different things, then they would probably have changed their designs at any point in the last forty years to make that apparent. Take a look at "miscellaneous" section of the Super Mushroom gallery. All of these are game-agnostic artwork. Any one of these could secretly be a miscategorized regular Mushroom picture, and we'd never know! ...Y'know, if you assume the distinction exists.

Of course, I don't assume the distinction exists, and I doubt the average wiki browser or even Japanese fan does either.

So here's what I'm proposing we do about this. Like I said, the way I see it, there are only two types of Mushroom among these three articles: the regular type, which plays a variety of roles across the series and has different names to suit those roles; and the kind from Party and the RPGs that's a better version of the regular Mushroom, using a very natural prefix for that. Therefore, that's the lines I want to delineate our articles by.

Our new "Super Mushroom" article will cover all the content of Mushroom and Dash Mushroom, and most of the content of Super Mushroom. Meanwhile, a new article, "Super Mushroom (stronger variant)", will be created, covering:

• The Golden Mushroom from Mario Party 2 and 3.
• Assuming this proposal passes, Super 'Shroom Orb.
• The Mid Mushroom from Super Mario RPG.
• The Super Shroom from the first three Paper Mario games.
• The Super Mushroom from the Mario & Luigi series.

UPDATE 1: Following a couple of comments, I changed the title of the resulting articles from "Mushroom" and "Super Mushroom", which they were previously, to "Super Mushroom" and "Super Mushroom (stronger variant)". I was considering doing this, but I couldn't come up with a good identifier for the second article. 12:35, November 4, 2024 (EST)

Proposer: Ahemtoday (talk)
Deadline: November 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
2. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per proposer.
3. Pseudo (talk) I definitely perceive these mushrooms as being the same in my own mind, but depending on supporting evidence for them being different, I might be swayed, so I'd say I'm more or less tentatively supporting. Props to you for having the bravery to make this proposal, Ahemtoday…
4. Exiled.Serenity (talk) this does ultimately seem like a lot of fracturing of information that's unneccesary and not reflective of what anyone is coming here for. Mushrooms are consistently the "do something slightly beneficial" object in every game they appear in, and then some games have a higher-tier version. There's not much reason to present them differently.
5. PrincessPeachFan (talk) The Dash Mushroom/Mushroom thing really gets really weird.
6. Salmancer (talk) I would have supported this hesitantly if the main page was "Mushroom" but do fully support it as "Super Mushroom". After all, the SMR Notebook clearly says Mario is, "A hero who grows when he grabs a mushroom..." and I'm willing to take that as mushrooms not having to be called "Super Mushroom" to be Super Mushrooms. Besides, given the nature of series organization means "Dash Mushroom" as a name can still get it's fair due in a combined article.
7. Shy Guy on Wheels (talk) Per proposal.
8. DesaMatt (talk) Per proposal.
9. Shadow2 (talk) I stand by what I said two years ago. The unnecessary distinction between these entities is very arbitrary and is not applied consistently across the articles. We moved the things called "Mushrooms" over to the ill-fitting "Dash Mushroom" page because of some British English shenanigans, but left the Superstars/Jamboree Mushrooms on the "Mushroom" page, based entirely on their name, even though they fit the descriptiors on the "Dash Mushroom" page? However this wiki is handling it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. These Mushrooms keep changing names inconsistently, and it's not going to do us any favors to try and follow this inconsistent naming. A basic Mushroom is just a Mushroom and we should leave it at that.

Oppose

1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Mushroom and Super Mushroom explicitly appear as separate healing items in RPGs. They are definitely different things, akin to Super Stars, Power Stars and those Mario Party stars, or Fire Flowers, Superball Flowers, the Super Mario RPG flowers, and Power Flowers (and the only reason there's varying designs there is Fire Flower's design wasn't cemented until around Partners in Time/New Super Mario Bros.). Splitting all the "other" Super Mushroom appearances is just silly. And this page is unfocused enough as it without the addition of deliberately distinguished subtypes that are already cleanly split.
2. Arend (talk) I suppose I would be fine with merging Dash Mushroom with the Mushroom article, given that item is commonly referred to as a Mushroom too, but I'm vehemently against merging most of Super Mushroom with Mushroom as well, unless the merged article is renamed to "Super Mushroom" and the remainder of the Super Mushroom article gets an identifier like "(spin-off series)" or "(stronger variant)". The thing is, the name "Super Mushroom" is used in the mainline titles and appears in nearly all of those mainline titles as the most common power-up there is. The name "Super Mushroom" is far less recognizable as a stronger variant of a more common Mushroom item in RPGs and Party games in comparison.
3. Hewer (talk) I take issue with the inclusion of Dash Mushroom per the proposal that got it split. Its name and effect are much more unique, so I think it's more comparable to Super Stars vs. Power Stars. (EDIT: Forgot to mention that splitting it is also consistent with Golden Mushroom and Golden Dash Mushroom.) As for the rest, I can see the argument, but my preferred solution would be, instead of separating the "stronger" RPG item from everything else, separate the "weak" RPG item from everything else. So the Mushroom page covers the "weak" RPG item, and everything else (except Dash Mushroom) goes on the Super Mushroom page. That way would allow us to match the games' terminology a bit more closely.
4. Tails777 (talk) Leaning more on this end at this moment. While my personal preference is to simply split the RPG healing "Super Mushroom" into its own article, right now, these Mushrooms are all covered pretty fairly. Plus, the opposition brings up good points with the Dash Mushroom point; it's still an official name that gets used even now.
5. LadySophie17 (talk) Per all.
6. Cadrega86 (talk) Agree with Tails777, and I'd personally rather split these into something like "Mushroom" (general page for all uses that are left out), "Dash Mushroom", "Mushroom (healing item)" (for the RPGs), "Super Mushroom" (power-up), "Super Mushroom (healing item)".
7. EvieMaybe (talk) function first! this IS mario, after all
8. UltraMario (talk) Per all, especially Arend and Nintendo101.
9. Nintendo101 (talk) I do think there is wisdom in recognizing that subjects are often elastic in the Super Mario franchise and often serve different roles between genre: generally if it looks the same, it is intended to be seen as the same ontological subject. However, that is not always the case, and while I do think there is some truth here for this Mushroom, I think there are more meaningful distinctions not reflected in what is laid out in the proposal, and if it is to be pursued again, I'm not sure it should be merged or split in this particular way. I thought what Hewer brought up below about Dash Mushrooms in particular to be interesting. It is a contemporary term employed by the creators in Japan, and while it may not be a wholly separate entity from the Super Mushroom, we do support articles for Mario and Dr. Mario on this wiki.
10. PhGuy12 (talk) Per all.
11. Blinker (talk) Per Nintendo101.
12. KamekSans (talk) It's simple; While they may look identical, Super Mushrooms are the ones that grant Super form, while this page describes the mushrooms that don't do that.
13. LinkTheLefty (talk) I feel like this is too broad and should be determined case by case.
14. Pizza Master (talk) These are different mushrooms with different effects. These articles were split for a reason and should remain split. Also, a merge of these mushrooms feels like a violation of the "everything but the kitchen sink" principle tbh.
15. Axii (talk) Per all.
16. Rykitu (talk) Per all.
17. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per all, especially EvieMaybe and Cadrega86. Splitting the Mushroom and Super Mushroom articles like Cadrega86 lays out and leaving the Dash Mushroom article alone would make much more sense.
18. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per all.

Comments

The article title as "Mushroom" is probably my biggest point of concern here, since I perceive "Super Mushroom" as being the most recognizable proper name for this item. I wonder if the article titles could be something like "Super Mushroom" [no identifier] for the merged article that this proposal aims to create, and "Super Mushroom (strong variant)" or something similar for the RPG/Mario Party item? Coming up with a good identifier for the "upgraded Mushroom" kind of Super Mushroom is the trickiest thing to grapple with in my eyes. Pseudo (talk) (contributions) 09:03, November 4, 2024 (EST)

@Doc von Schmeltwick, I don't think the contention here is that the "Super Mushroom" as in RPGs is the same thing as the "Mushroom" in those games. They're saying the "Mushroom" in those is the same as the object which is sometimes called "Super Mushroom" in games that don't have several tiers of mushroom, in cases where said "Super Mushroom" looks identical and has similar functionality. You'd still have a seperate page for the "Super Mushroom" in Paper Mario et al, because it's obviously an upgrade of the normal Mario mushroom which we all Know and Love. Sarah Exiled.Serenity talk 09:30, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I understand that's the idea, and I take immense issue with that notion. If they wanted the basic type to be the "normal" Super Mushroom, they'd have called them that and had a different name for the upper type. This goes doubly so for Dash Mushroom, which was outright renamed to distinguish it from normal and Super Mushrooms. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 09:34, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I mean, we might just as easily say that if they wanted the "Super Mushroom" in Paper Mario to be considered the same thing, they could've made it look like the "Super Mushroom" from the mainline games and had a different appearance for the lower type. Similarly, they could've made the "Dash Mushroom" look different at all from the ordinary "Super Mushroom" in order to distinguish it. We don't actually know developer intent here— Maybe it's just a dash mushroom to clarify that it makes you dash in the manual. Or, maybe they originally had the basic mushroom be "Super Mushroom" in Paper Mario but thought it sounded odd and changed it. In the absence of clear intent, all we have left is making it so someone doesn't have to fiddle with three different pages because the graffiti in Super Bell Subway actually depicts a Super Mushroom, not a Dash Mushroom. Sarah Exiled.Serenity talk 13:00, November 4, 2024 (EST)

The name "Dash Mushroom" isn't just "in the manual", off the top of my head it's used in-game in Smash and Mario Party in all regions, as well as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in some regions. Anyway, the unknown motivations for their choices don't make them any less valid. If they really did decide the Dash Mushroom's function was unique enough that it warranted a unique name, as you're suggesting, wouldn't that mean they do see it as different? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:12, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I admit I didn't actually check where "Dash Mushroom" was coming from. But the specific examples aren't really the point. We can't tell if the items are seen as different, because in one breath they call them a different thing and then in the next they make them look identical. Sarah Exiled.Serenity talk 13:28, November 4, 2024 (EST)

Looking identical doesn't mean they necessarily have to be the same item. Doc already brought up Super Star, Power Star, and Star (Mario Party series), are they all the same item? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:40, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I do see your point there, but I think it's a bit of a distinct situation. In every game they appear in, "Power Stars" are a collectible progression object and "Super Stars" make you invincible. Comparatively, Mushrooms are used a lot more flexibly as the sort of "minor good thing" object— if a game has a health system they probably heal you, but they make you boost in Mario Kart (as the Dash Mushroom), make you run faster in Mario Tennis (as the Mushroom), and give you a bigger target in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (as the Super Mushroom). Furthermore, the names are not at all consistent. If I touch a star and I'm not invincible, it wasn't a Super Star; If I touch a mushroom and I don't get bigger, then I assume mushrooms just don't do that in this one. Sarah Exiled.Serenity talk 18:22, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I could be misinterpreting this proposal, hence why I'm not voting just yet, but I just wanna give my two cents on this whole Mushroom deal, since this has crossed my mind many times before. I feel the normal Mushroom article is fine, mostly covering it's position as an RPG healing item. The Super Mushroom article mostly covers the Mushroom as the iconic, platformer power-up and the Dash Mushroom mostly covers its role as a speed boosting item. I feel what I'd consider is splitting the healing version of the Super Mushroom into it's own article and maybe moving the Luigi's Mansion 3DS info into the standard Mushroom article (as its treated as a healing item there too). Otherwise, these three Mushroom articles are mostly consistent in what they are covering. I know that they all basically look the same (barring the Paper Mario healing item, which is blue rather than red), but I feel their distinct functions warrant them being split off. Tails777 Talk to me!

To me, the Dash Mushroom is pretty much the clincher. Despite the name, it's almost always called Mushroom and even though Mario Party gave it its official name in all regions, starting with Super, the regular Mushroom acts exactly like the Dash Mushroom in that it adds more to your Dice Roll. PrincessPeachFan (talk) 12:52, November 4, 2024 (EST)

The problem is it's mainly only called mushroom in localization, and that's been being phased in recent games out in favor of the more specific name. In the language of origin, "Dash Mushroom" has been consistently used for years. Also, that would create an inconsistency with Golden Dash Mushroom, which as shown by the Golden Dash Cup, is likely the name they're going to be sticking with for it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:31, November 4, 2024 (EST)

Abstaining for now. I agree the Mushroom, Super Mushroom, and Dash Mushroom are meant to be ontologically the same subject, just one that has a different role depending on the genre of game. I do not think something like Fire Flower and Superball Flower is a comparable situation, because theses Mushrooms often go by the same name in Japanese and the name we apply to them here in West is genre dependent. (Something like Fire Flower and Superball Flower are both in the mainline platformers, and do different things. They also do not literally look one-to-one.) I believe if the Dash Mushroom of Mario Kart 8 and the Super Mushroom of Super Mario 3D World were to be understood to be different subjects, they would not look visually indistinguishable. I also don't think a subject should be misrepresented just because a different name is applied to it in the West. However, I feel like this "Super Mushroom (stronger variant)" article also incorporated into this proposal sounds a bit messy, and a little too comparable to something from my field called a wastebasket taxon, where unrelated subjects are assumed related or the same in error. Maybe that should be scrutinized a little bit. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:22, November 4, 2024 (EST)

They don't go by the same names in Japanese any more often than they do in English. In fact, they go less often, since they split Dash Mushroom sooner than they were in English and they've been separated ever since. Also, when you consider Fire Flower's design history, they looked one-to-one when they were a thing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:30, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I guess I do not agree that these two images look exactly the same (SML, on the left and SMB). Clearly derived, but not the same. And their distinction was further substantiated in Super Mario Maker 2, where both subjects appear, and in retrospective material on Super Mario Land like its page on Mario Portal. So I do not agree this is a comparable situation.

My perspective here is similar to my belief that Mario is Mario. In some games, he jumps across platforms in a athletic action context. In others, he drives a kart. In some, he wields a hammer in a turn-based setting. I don't think the way the Super Mushroom is integrated into various genre is dissimilar, especially since in the modern era they still decide to give it the same appearance across games. If they wanted them to be be different, they would look different. That is my view, at least. I would probably feel differently if any of these identical-looking Mushrooms intersect in the same genre, particularly in a contemporary context, but to the best of my knowledge, they do not. - Nintendo101 (talk) 17:42, November 4, 2024 (EST)

Both Mushroom and Super Mushroom have appeared together multiple times, though, and in the M&L games they keep their shared appearance. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:51, November 4, 2024 (EST)

That's not quite what I meant. If the Super Mushroom item in Mario & Luigi increased their physical size and gave them unique moves, that would indicate some discrete intended mechanic associated with that name regardless of genre, and would (in my opinion) further substantiate a split. But it doesn't do that. It just restores more health than the regular Mushroom item. - Nintendo101 (talk) 18:02, November 4, 2024 (EST)

So how do you suggest we deal with those mushrooms, since the point stands that they're clearly separate in those RPGs? I also disagree that the differing names are just "genre dependent", seeing as both "Mushroom" and "Dash Mushroom" have appeared in the Mario Party series, and both "Super Mushroom" (as an item) and "Dash Mushroom" (as a piece of equipment) appear together in Smash 4. And I again raise Super Star, Power Star, and Star (Mario Party series). They all look the same, so should they be merged? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:17, November 4, 2024 (EST)

If I recall correctly, the Golden Dash Mushroom is in Super Smash Bros., which is not the same subject. For the stars, my view is that the Star from Mario Party and the Power Star are one in the same. The Super Star is not. This impression comes from Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, which are related platform games and examples of them co-occuring. Captain Toad's Power Stars and the Green Stars (which I recognize as a type of Power Star, from its origins in Super Mario Galaxy - a game developed by much of the same people who developed 3D World and Captain Toad) are given rounded edges and a sheen, whereas the Super Star power-up is given sharpened points and is duller. This is not the case across all games where only one of them appears, but I always took this as an indication that they are not the same ontological subject, which is particularly notable considering the platformers are developed by Nintendo EAD/EPD which developed both of them. I do not recognize them as the same thing.

Mario Party debuted on the Nintendo 64 and very early on took many design queues from Super Mario 64, in which the Power Star debuted. The Stars are the main "targets" gameplay and whoever has the most wins. The impression I have is that is the role Power Stars serve in this series. The only exception I am familiar with offhand is the Stars in the Bowser mode in Jamboree which work like the power-up. But they do not function the same as the Stars do in other parts of the game and do not contribute to the player's total, so my impression is that the ones in this specific Jamboree mode can comfortably be considered the same as the Super Star power-ups, but all the other ones are analogous to Power Stars. But that is just what makes most intuitive sense to me, and others are welcomed to disagree. - Nintendo101 (talk) 18:49, November 4, 2024 (EST)

You do not recall correctly, Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U feature the Super Mushroom as an item and the Dash Mushroom as a piece of equipment. As for the stars, fair enough. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:54, November 4, 2024 (EST)

Thank you for the clarification, but do you recognize those as comparable situations? The equipment are all featureless texture images. Not even discretely unique pictures. I do not find it to be the same environment for one to make an easy comparison. If the Dash Mushroom was a 3D object - either as a trophy separate from the Super Mushroom or as a physical item that increased the player's speed or gave them a boost, or even if the Super Mushroom also appeared as equipment but did something else like increase the fighter's size - I would view that as more fair. But that is not the scenario we have to look at either. - Nintendo101 (talk) 19:05, November 4, 2024 (EST)

It still demonstrates that the two items can occupy different roles and have their different names within a single game, so it's not just a case of a single item named differently between games. They could easily have just called the equipment "Super Mushroom" if it was supposed to be the same item, but they didn't. I don't see how it matters that one is 3D and the other isn't when they're still both clearly visually represented in-game. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:21, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I agree about the idea of the wastebasket taxon. I honestly wonder if the best solution to the issue of what to call "Super Mushroom (stronger variant)" is to just split it off into "Super Mushroom (Super Mario RPG)", "Super Mushroom (Paper Mario Series)", "Super Mushroom (Mario & Luigi Series)", and "Super Mushroom (Mario Party Series)", since those four articles are all that would be required. Maybe having "Super Mushroom (RPG Item)" would be warranted, actually, to cut down on articles that say "In this one there's a Super mushroom and it heals more than the regular one". Sarah Exiled.Serenity talk 19:27, November 4, 2024 (EST)

If we're merging all of the Mushroom page and most of the Super Mushroom page, I don't understand why the line should be drawn at keeping the very similar healing items merged. I also don't really like the idea of splitting pages for no reason other than avoiding awkward identifiers (especially since I suggested an alternate way of handling it in my vote that also happens to avoid awkward identifiers). Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 19:39, November 4, 2024 (EST)

The idea here is to avoid having multiple things on the same page that are only associated by not having a better place to go. While the Mario Party and Mario RPG items are both called "Super Mushroom", they're different items that do different things and look different. Comparatively, the new "Super Mushroom" page would be unified by all being instances of The Red Mushroom From Mario, an object that is flexible in function by nature. I don't know if it's 100% necessary but I think it'd be a lot more sensible than the current setup. Sarah Exiled.Serenity talk 01:09, November 5, 2024 (EST)

Can't speak for anyone else here, but since Stars have come up several times now, I'll take the opportunity to say... yeah, that seems like the same thing as Mushrooms, so I'd support a merge of them, too. I'd have to look into it more closely before actually committing, but aside from generally more consistent nomenclature, I don't see a significant difference between the three (four?) — they still look identical, and they went out of their way to ensure two of them didn't appear in the same game. Ahemtoday (talk) 18:33, November 4, 2024 (EST)

I think a consistent naming difference that perfectly aligns with a consistent functional difference is a compelling enough reason to keep them split (more so than the mushrooms, where even those that share a name will often function differently). I don't think it's an accident that the invincibility-granting one is always "Super Star", the collectible one is always "Power Star", and the Mario Party one is always just "Star". Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:40, November 4, 2024 (EST)

Maybe after this proposal ends there can be a new policy saying that proposals affecting the names of pages that are heavily linked to shouldn't be talk page proposals. If this proposal does succeed, it would affect most pages on the wiki, since Mushrooms tend to be foundational objects in most games. Salmancer (talk) 15:44, November 6, 2024 (EST)

Does that really matter? There's effectively no difference between a "main" proposal and a talk page proposal now that they're all the same length, and this proposal is still relevant to this talk page. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 17:05, November 6, 2024 (EST)

I guess it doesn't, and it does proceed off from other discussions here. I guess it's more visibility and principle where I'm concerned. This is probably cornerstone level precedent being made. Salmancer (talk) 06:17, November 8, 2024 (EST)

The "function" argument I'm really not buying. The same argument can be made to say that Maple Syrup should be merged to Supersyrup Jar, or that Royal Syrup and Jammin' Jelly should be merged to Ultrasyrup Jar. Or the Life Mushroom should be merged to 1-Up Mushroom. To say nothing on how the Fire Flower is a free-standing flame-emitter in the first two Paper Mario games rather than a power-up. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 19:18, November 6, 2024 (EST)

To clarify, what "function argument" are you referring to? Most people bringing up function are opposing the proposal. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:32, November 7, 2024 (EST)

The one that is used in varying capacities on both sides. The one that says that since the Super Mushroom is the "basic" Mushroom in most platformers than the generic "healing" mushroom must be it rather than the stronger "healing" mushroom that is named the same as it. Or that that third one is different from both. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:18, November 7, 2024 (EST)

@KamekSans Untrue. The Super Mushroom page also covers:

• the mushrooms in Super Mario 64 DS that turn you Mega and not Super.
• the mushrooms in Yoshi's Safari that restore your life and are evidently called "Power-up Mushrooms".
• the Mid Mushrooms from Super Mario RPG that restore HP.
• the item from the Mario Party series that lets you roll three dice blocks.
• the item from the Paper Mario series that restores your health.
• the item from the Mario & Luigi series that restores your health.
• the pickups in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games that increase the size of things other than a character.
• the item from the Luigi's Mansion remake that restores 25 HP.
• several instances of unnamed Mushroom iconography that the wiki simply assumes is of Super Mushrooms.

It is decidedly not simple. Ahemtoday (talk) 03:41, November 8, 2024 (EST)

Honestly, I've been wanting to split Power-up Mushroom too, I just kept forgetting about it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:16, November 8, 2024 (EST)

@Nintendo101 It should probably be noted that Dr. Mario is not a section of Mario mostly on sheer number of significant appearances, a series named after him, being a distinct character in Super Smash Bros. and to avoid the dreaded "talking to oneself" effect regarding the Super Mario (Kodansha manga) where he is a separate character. After Dr. Mario World had every character get a Ph.d it was decided in this proposal that no other doctor gets to have an article, irrespective of having a new design or being recurring outside of Dr. Mario World. (Even Nurse Toadstool and Dr. Luigi, the latter of which has a game named after them.) If having a new name, lab coat and head mirror isn't good enough even as a indicator of a specific genre/brand, then things are looking rough for the items with identical appearances which "seemingly" divide by series. Salmancer (talk) 06:17, November 8, 2024 (EST)

I see that more like how we don't have a separate page for Fire Luigi. It's not technically a "power-up," but it's a shared style of alter-ego. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 12:17, November 8, 2024 (EST)

I also wish to point out why Schrodinger's (Super) (Dash) Mushoom is a real problem for image categorization. Like the proposal already points it out, but an example might help. Take File:PN Holiday 2022 Super Mushroom.png, supposedly a "Super Mushroom". The ornament creator where it is from only has a Super Star in it, so it can't be eliminated from any of the three Mushrooms brackets on associated items alone. The app includes paired with generic Mario artwork, so that's no help either. If Nintendo had both Super Mario and Mario Kart artwork in that app we'd be stuck with a Mushroom that can't be placed, foiled by our own flawed categorization. The only reason I can think for that art to be firmly placed in the "Super Mushroom" gallery is that non-descript red capped mushroom items with no series association are "Super Mushrooms", but that would be reading between the lines we drew ourselves. Never ever being able to be certain about what artwork presents what thing is a problem. Salmancer (talk) 06:12, November 10, 2024 (EST)

You could say the same about splits such as Yoshi and Yoshi (species), or Kamek and Magikoopa, or even Piranha Plant and Piranha Plant (Pit of 100 Trials). Same appearance doesn't always mean same thing. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 08:49, November 10, 2024 (EST)

Okay, wow Piranha Plant is new to me. That's an enigma that thankfully doesn't have an independent gallery. The other two aren't issues like dividing Mushrooms are, because Yoshi is a Yoshi, and Kamek is a Magikoopa. The fallback case works for anything that cannot be conclusively stated as one or the other. (And for them, it isn't based on a quality that can be determined solely by gameplay which doesn't always exist.) Dash Mushrooms are Mushrooms, not Super Mushrooms. "The Dash Mushroom... is a type of mushroom physically identical to a Super Mushroom". And yet the indeterminites are hanging out on Gallery:Super Mushroom, which sorta pokes a hole in this being a simple split where everything is in an obvious location. Salmancer (talk) 13:09, November 10, 2024 (EST)

here's an interesting question: can we merge galleries without merging the base pages? make a Gallery:Mushroom (or Super Mushroom) that shows normal, Super and Dash Mushrooms in one spot, maybe clarifying which is which in the image description? EvieMaybe (talk) 08:34, November 15, 2024 (EST)

Why on earth is the Golden Mushroom from Mario Party 2 and Mario Party 3 covered on the Super Mushroom article instead of Golden Mushroom (crownless)? Not only is it literally a golden Mushroom, its localized name isn't "Super Mushroom", it's "Golden Mushroom". Even if the Japanese versions of those games call it the Super Mushroom, the most common English name is prioritized per MarioWiki:Naming, so they should still be covered on the Golden (non-Dash) Mushroom article. ThePowerPlayer 12:07, November 16, 2024 (EST)

Well, because not only has that Mushroom's Japanese name been "Super Kinoko", but the same item has also been referred to as "Super Mushroom" in later Mario Party titles, as evidenced by the Super 'Shroom Orb (or Super Mushroom Capsule). This was explained in a prior proposal, and is similar to why Cursed Mushroom is to be split from Poison Mushroom, as decided by a more recent proposal. Not to mention that another proposal has decided that certain Orbs are to be merged with their respective original items, meaning that the Super 'Shroom Orb would have to be merged to Super Mushroom anyway. rend (talk) (edits) 12:59, November 16, 2024 (EST)

Also, MarioWiki:Naming is only about what to call things, not how to organise them. There's precedent for basing organisation more closely on original Japanese naming despite referring to the subjects with their English names. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 22:02, November 17, 2024 (EST)

This might be the one subject matter that rivals Banana and Cheep Cheep variants in terms of contentiousness. No wonder Mario gets so disgusted at a platter of these things in the movie. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:52, November 16, 2024 (EST)

While it's clear at this point that this proposal isn't going to pass at the current moment, I would like to bring up a particular point that has made me feel more strongly in support of this proposal since it came to my mind: the wiki currently considers the Dash Mushroom from Super Mario Party et al to be distinct from the Mushroom in Mario Party Superstars et al. These Mushrooms may have different names, but their appearance is identical and their effects are almost identical: adding a fixed value to the player's dice roll (even exactly equal to half of the maximum roll in both cases, which varies between games). Now, I understand why this may be and why people oppose the merge, but consider this: how is this different from the Mushroom that appears in early games of the Mario Kart series, before the name Dash Mushroom was used in either English or Japanese? Super Mario Kart is one example of this. If we are to strictly split these pages based on their differing names and regardless of their shared appearance or effects, should Super Mario Kart's Mushroom be split from the current Dash Mushroom article (and put on the Mushroom article)? I do not actually think this would be a good idea to be clear, I'm more trying to point out the issues with having these articles be split as they are. I hope this is food for thought on the subject, at least. Pseudo (talk) (contributions) 16:19, November 18, 2024 (EST)